MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: tower912 on November 06, 2018, 07:36:19 AM
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An hour long wait in my voting precinct. Viva Democracy!
8 voting stations in a precinct of 10, 000
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Voted early 10 days ago. Five minutes in and out the door.
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Yeah butt, ya wasted 10 daze of da process. Potentially mind changin' events have occurred, aina?
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Yeah butt, ya wasted 10 daze of da process. Potentially mind changin' events have occurred, aina?
Yes, I voted for Candidate A, but the one millionth ad I've seen for Candidate B finally changed my mind.
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Almost like mail in voting should be a thing
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Got to the polls 5 minutes before the open, was voter 30 in my ward. Cool stuff. Took #nored with me before daycare drop off and he entertained everyone while behaving so he can get the Vote sticker....might have a little politician on my hands.
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Will they be showing election coverage at the Forum?
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I participated in the slow motion collapse of our republic today as well. Good times.
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Voted this morning no problem other than parking on the muddy grass field from all the recent rain.
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I was pondering as I stood in line that this was actually a wonderful thing. And then I was pondering the decision to only have 8 voting booths in a precinct of 10k, where that decision was made. I started to blame government/county clerk/secretary of state, etc. Then I thought about the lengths of line I stand in every time I go to Costco. Or Kohl's at Christmas. Or any decent restaurant on a Friday or Saturday night. Or a decent ride at any amusement park. And I returned to the notion that a line this long to vote was a good thing. Michigan doesn't have early voting. And, currently (though I just voted to change it), to vote absentee, you have to show cause if you are under 60.
Viva democracy.
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The size of the crowd at my polling place this morning was fairly typical of past elections. It did seem to skew pretty young, however. Of the 15-20 people who were there when I voted, I'd guess that 4-5 were high school age. That seemed different, but obviously very anecdotal.
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I was pondering as I stood in line that this was actually a wonderful thing. And then I was pondering the decision to only have 8 voting booths in a precinct of 10k, where that decision was made. I started to blame government/county clerk/secretary of state, etc. Then I thought about the lengths of line I stand in every time I go to Costco. Or Kohl's at Christmas. Or any decent restaurant on a Friday or Saturday night. Or a decent ride at any amusement park. And I returned to the notion that a line this long to vote was a good thing. Michigan doesn't have early voting. And, currently (though I just voted to change it), to vote absentee, you have to show cause if you are under 60.
Viva democracy.
Viva laboratories of democracy.
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FWIW I voted at about 7:45 in northern Waukesha and was #116. This is my first middterm in this spot, so I have no idea how that compares.
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The size of the crowd at my polling place this morning was fairly typical of past elections. It did seem to skew pretty young, however. Of the 15-20 people who were there when I voted, I'd guess that 4-5 were high school age. That seemed different, but obviously very anecdotal.
I thought Millennials did not get out of bed until 9:30
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Almost like mail in voting should be a thing
I've requested a mail-in ballot for all but one election. Never felt an attachment to the aura of voting in person. Probably a product of Oregon roots.
However, I did enjoy my experience as an election judge for the 2016 general.
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Weeks ago completed. Stood in line for zero seconds.
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An hour long wait in my voting precinct. Viva Democracy!
8 voting stations in a precinct of 10, 000
You’re lucky.
Dodge City, Kansas has one voting station for 13,000 registered voters. Plus it is located out of the city - one mile past the closest bus route.
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I pondered that outrageous national story, too.
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Very little wait on the Northside of Chicago at 9:45. Though my friend who voted early yesterday waited over a hour.
Update line starting to build up after I left.
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Very little wait on the Northside of Chicago at 9:45. Though my friend who voted early yesterday waited over a hour.
Probably because yesterday is when Chicago was doing the cemetery voting.
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I waited less than 5 minutes at two polling stations and about 40 minutes at a third.
I live in a voting district that has a fairly senior population, and at 615 this morning there was quite a line. It was about a 15 minute wait, and the youngest in line was about 40, until two young guys who looked about 18 came in just as I was leaving.
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Walked to my polling location in Avondale (Chicago) and arrived at 5:55a. 1st to vote at 6am when polls opened and was home by 6:10am. Easy peasy.
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I wish early voting enabled you to block all the political ads and reminders to vote.
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I wish early voting enabled you to block all the political ads and reminders to vote.
If they had this I am guessing more people than ever would vote.
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Power went out at work today. Voting day in America. I think Putin’s at it again.
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An hour long wait in my voting precinct. Viva Democracy!
8 voting stations in a precinct of 10, 000
Hmm .. 8 for 10k sounds .. fine. Better than fine.
We have 3 locations for 14k people. And our village is in the top 10 for voting %age, in the 80% range.
There are some lines at morning/evening rush hours, but < 30 mins for sure.
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I voted about two weeks ago and was amazed that I had to stand in line for about 30 minutes. There's a polling station on campus near where I work. I poked my head down there a few times over the last few weeks and there was never not a line that looked at least 15 minutes long. For an on-campus station in a mid term election I was surprised. Maybe they finally got the millennials and Igens to the polls!
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I wish early voting enabled you to block all the political ads and reminders to vote.
Winner!
Voted last week and woulda loved this. I do have a pretty quick "clicker finger," though, and heard about as few ads as possible.
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I wish early voting enabled you to block all the political ads and reminders to vote.
I started trolling in response.
"I'll be honest, I was gonna vote for [candidate spamming me], but since you contacted me, I'm going to vote for [opponent]. And, I hope [opponent] wins by one vote, so that you can look back at your ill-advised choice to spam the citizens you hope to represent and know that it is your fault [volunteer jackwagon], that [candidate spamming me] lost."
cathartic.
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24 minutes in rural McHenry County. First time I've ever waited.
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I started trolling in response.
"I'll be honest, I was gonna vote for [candidate spamming me], but since you contacted me, I'm going to vote for [opponent]. And, I hope [opponent] wins by one vote, so that you can look back at your ill-advised choice to spam the citizens you hope to represent and know that it is your fault [volunteer jackwagon], that [candidate spamming me] lost."
cathartic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSffASRnUQU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSffASRnUQU)
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I’ve got a late afternoon meeting. Need to get in and out of my polling place after quickly so I can watch bball games before MU. Hope everything for me turns out all right, hey?
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Hmm .. 8 for 10k sounds .. fine. Better than fine.
We have 3 locations for 14k people. And our village is in the top 10 for voting %age, in the 80% range.
There are some lines at morning/evening rush hours, but < 30 mins for sure.
No. One polling location with 8 kiosks (?) in which to mark your ballot and then insert it into one machine.
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Early voting results are in. Donuts narrowly defeated cupcakes 8-7, so my son's kindergarten teacher will be bringing in donuts tomorrow.
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Early voting results are in. Donuts narrowly defeated cupcakes 8-7, so my son's kindergarten teacher will be bringing in donuts tomorrow.
The correct choice was made
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Tell me again why we want more people to vote?
Also, why is voting the only civic duty where we feel the need to brag we did it? I don't go around bragging that I paid sales tax at lunch today... :o
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Tell me again why we want more people to vote?
You really feel the need to ask this?
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Tell me again why we want more people to vote?
Also, why is voting the only civic duty where we feel the need to brag we did it? I don't go around bragging that I paid sales tax at lunch today... :o
I PAID SALES TAX AT LUNCH TODAY! AND TIPPED! WOOT!
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No. One polling location with 8 kiosks (?) in which to mark your ballot and then insert it into one machine.
Ah .. that's no good. We have 3 places, maybe 8 booths, one machine each location. Our bottleneck is the 3 polling workers who are looking up your name, checking ID, getting you to sign, handing you a ballot.
So .. this all being said, I'm curious how these waits are allowed to continue.
In Wisconsin, it's the municipality that draws the wards and selects the polling spots .. while those are typically drawn by the staff/management, they are voted on by the council/board/trustees. I was a trustee in 2011 and did exactly this, after the 2010 census.
So .. if there were giant lines, as an elected official living in the area, I'd receive complaints -- and would be pissed too, after all, these are people in my neighborhood being denied a reasonable path to voting.
So this is what I don't understand. Maybe it's different in each state. Saw on Twitter that there are 3 hour waits in Atlanta. The Atlanta City Council is .. mostly minority members. Aren't they outraged? Weren't they outraged 2-4-6 years ago when this happened before?
It's not galactically difficult to have more polling stations, helpers, booths. How does this keep happening?
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Early voting results are in. Donuts narrowly defeated cupcakes 8-7, so my son's kindergarten teacher will be bringing in donuts tomorrow.
Tragic. I suppose it depends on the kind of doughnuts and cupcakes, and you can’t go wrong with either, but that’s not my doughnut.
Tell me again why we want more people to vote?
Because when less people vote you end up with Donald Trump running your country?
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Ah .. that's no good. We have 3 places, maybe 8 booths, one machine each location. Our bottleneck is the 3 polling workers who are looking up your name, checking ID, getting you to sign, handing you a ballot.
So .. this all being said, I'm curious how these waits are allowed to continue.
In Wisconsin, it's the municipality that draws the wards and selects the polling spots .. while those are typically drawn by the staff/management, they are voted on by the council/board/trustees. I was a trustee in 2011 and did exactly this, after the 2010 census.
So .. if there were giant lines, as an elected official living in the area, I'd receive complaints -- and would be pissed too, after all, these are people in my neighborhood being denied a reasonable path to voting.
So this is what I don't understand. Maybe it's different in each state. Saw on Twitter that there are 3 hour waits in Atlanta. The Atlanta City Council is .. mostly minority members. Aren't they outraged? Weren't they outraged 2-4-6 years ago when this happened before?
It's not galactically difficult to have more polling stations, helpers, booths. How does this keep happening?
I have voted in the same place since 1994. I get the feeling my municipality sent out the standard amount for any normal mid term election, failing to account for the high turnout.
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Do they not have early voting in Wisconsin?
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Tell me again why we want more people to vote?
Also, why is voting the only civic duty where we feel the need to brag we did it? I don't go around bragging that I paid sales tax at lunch today... :o
Wearing a sticker is stupid af (no offense to the many wearing one, but..)
People feel righteous and special for voting. I don’t get it. Might as well wear a “I washed my hands after hitting the John (pause)” sticker
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Do they not have early voting in Wisconsin?
they do
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they do
That is the way to go. Other than my state senator standing next to Victoria's Secret begging me to vote for him (apparently he was the legal distance from the empty storefront in the mall that was set up as a polling place), it was fast and uneventful.
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Indeed .. WI has early voting, absentee voting .. and those methods are growing massively -- which means pressure at the election day sites should be trending down.
Turnout is always a mystery, but it's best to guess high in November.
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Tell me again why we want more people to vote?
Also, why is voting the only civic duty where we feel the need to brag we did it? I don't go around bragging that I paid sales tax at lunch today... :o
I drove to work without speeding today!!!**
**a lie
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Ah .. that's no good. Our bottleneck is the 3 polling workers who are looking up your name, checking ID, getting you to sign, handing you a ballot.
I waited a half hour in a REALLY SLOW line this morning. When I got to the front of the line, I realized why it was so slow. The three really nice ladies that were looking up the names and checking IDs were older than dirt. A n d s l o w A F . If they put one old experienced person in there with a couple students, I bet I wouldn't have waited more than 10 minutes.
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Early voting results are in. Donuts narrowly defeated cupcakes 8-7, so my son's kindergarten teacher will be bringing in donuts tomorrow.
Sounds like it would have been a win either way.
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Tell me again why we want more people to vote?
Because voter suppression is not in the best interests of a democratic society.
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I waited a half hour in a REALLY SLOW line this morning. When I got to the front of the line, I realized why it was so slow. The three really nice ladies that were looking up the names and checking IDs were older than dirt. A n d s l o w A F . If they put one old experienced person in there with a couple students, I bet I wouldn't have waited more than 10 minutes.
Yep. We've got this too. The poll workers are mostly the elderly and they are not quick.
I get it .. not a lot of people out there can take a day off and work the polls .. but perhaps the municipality should supply a city worker during the rush hours.
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Ah .. that's no good. We have 3 places, maybe 8 booths, one machine each location. Our bottleneck is the 3 polling workers who are looking up your name, checking ID, getting you to sign, handing you a ballot.
So .. this all being said, I'm curious how these waits are allowed to continue.
In Wisconsin, it's the municipality that draws the wards and selects the polling spots .. while those are typically drawn by the staff/management, they are voted on by the council/board/trustees. I was a trustee in 2011 and did exactly this, after the 2010 census.
So .. if there were giant lines, as an elected official living in the area, I'd receive complaints -- and would be pissed too, after all, these are people in my neighborhood being denied a reasonable path to voting.
So this is what I don't understand. Maybe it's different in each state. Saw on Twitter that there are 3 hour waits in Atlanta. The Atlanta City Council is .. mostly minority members. Aren't they outraged? Weren't they outraged 2-4-6 years ago when this happened before?
It's not galactically difficult to have more polling stations, helpers, booths. How does this keep happening?
All this could be solved by allowing online voting.
But Benny, how can we keep hackers from tampering with elections when Target can't even keep my credit card information secure*?
Quit your whining... if these hackers are so good, why do they continue to go after credit card numbers and Ashley Madison data when it seems they could simply sit at home getting rich by hacking into banks and draining people's bank accounts.
Oh yeah, because when you actually need to keep something secure on the internet - like money - there's actually a way to do that.
* Or insert your own fear-mongering red herring of choice.
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Because voter suppression is not in the best interests of a democratic society.
So according to your response, if I don't post on social media that I voted and/or that others should do the same... I am then suppressing votes?
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I waited a half hour in a REALLY SLOW line this morning. When I got to the front of the line, I realized why it was so slow. The three really nice ladies that were looking up the names and checking IDs were older than dirt. A n d s l o w A F . If they put one old experienced person in there with a couple students, I bet I wouldn't have waited more than 10 minutes.
This will self-correct over time. I had a 50ish lady, a 60ish lady and a 70ish man at our check-in. The 50ish lady was checking in about 50% of the voters, the 60ish lady about 35%, and the man got the rest.
Most folks under 60 have decent computer skills (as do many older folks, just not as high a percentage).
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I waited a half hour in a REALLY SLOW line this morning. When I got to the front of the line, I realized why it was so slow. The three really nice ladies that were looking up the names and checking IDs were older than dirt. A n d s l o w A F . If they put one old experienced person in there with a couple students, I bet I wouldn't have waited more than 10 minutes.
Nothing stopping the students from volunteering.
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Nothing stopping the students from volunteering.
My grandson (16) volunteered at an inner city polling place. He is there from 8am - 8 pm.
My wife and I volunteered at for a Jispanic outreach canvass program to encourage people to vote. Served them lunch. Great to see 150+ kids out doing this (mostly minority, probably 40% Hispanic, 40% black and 20% white).
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I don't want to debate the substance of the referendums themselves, but can we talk about the language of referendums as they appear on the ballot? Today was a perfect example of a well-written referendum and a godawful one.
Good:
Should marijuana be legalized, taxed and regulated in the same manner as alcohol for adults 21 years of age or older?
This is concise, apolitical, and just detailed enough to provide real insight into the minds of voters. Every word in that sentence is required to understand the true meaning of the referendum. If this referendum passes, and a state legislator speaks out against corresponding legislation, he or she should have to reckon with this - which as I understand it, is the entire point of a referendum. A+
Bad:
Should the state legislature protect residential property taxpayers by preventing commercial and manufacturing property owners from using tax loopholes to shift the tax burden to homeowners?
Excuse me? This is leading AF and never even mentions the substance of the question. This is the "dark store" referendum, and is seeking voter opinion on whether big box stores should be able to lower their property tax assessments by accounting for (the increasing number of) similar vacant properties in their appraisals. Regardless of your position on the dark store theory of appraisal, you wouldn't even know that's what was being addressed here. And using phrases like "should the legislature protect" and "preventing tax loopholes" renders it legislatively meaningless. F, take home and have signed by parents.
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I don't want to debate the substance of the referendums themselves, but can we talk about the language of referendums as they appear on the ballot? Today was a perfect example of a well-written referendum and a godawful one.
Good:
This is concise, apolitical, and just detailed enough to provide real insight into the minds of voters. Every word in that sentence is required to understand the true meaning of the referendum. If this referendum passes, and a state legislator speaks out against corresponding legislation, he or she should have to reckon with this - which as I understand it, is the entire point of a referendum. A+
Bad:
Excuse me? This is leading AF and never even mentions the substance of the question. This is the "dark store" referendum, and is seeking voter opinion on whether big box stores should be able to lower their property tax assessments by accounting for (the increasing number of) similar vacant properties in their appraisals. Regardless of your position on the dark store theory of appraisal, you wouldn't even know that's what was being addressed here. And using phrases like "should the legislature protect" and "preventing tax loopholes" renders it legislatively meaningless. F, take home and have signed by parents.
Good call, Burrow.
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Wearing a sticker is stupid af (no offense to the many wearing one, but..)
Two reasons to wear the sticker:
1. To get your free slice of pizza at Ian's in Madison
2. To ward off canvassers trying to get you to the polls on election day. "Leave me alone. Didn't you see my bleeping sticker?"
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Two reasons to wear the sticker:
1. To get your free slice of pizza at Ian's in Madison
2. To ward off canvassers trying to get you to the polls on election day. "Leave me alone. Didn't you see my bleeping sticker?"
Those both sound reasonable.
I wonder if any people complain about the taxpayer cost to fund the stickers and the environmental waste of them?....
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My grandson (16) volunteered at an inner city polling place. He is there from 8am - 8 pm.
My wife and I volunteered at for a Jispanic outreach canvass program to encourage people to vote. Served them lunch. Great to see 150+ kids out doing this (mostly minority, probably 40% Hispanic, 40% black and 20% white).
In our fine state, the ruling party is so determined to maintain control that it has tried everything possible to suppress the vote. One thing they tried to do was cut number of early voting days in half, making only one Saturday available, and closing the polls entirely on Sundays. Why close them on Sundays, because surveys showed that was a popular day for blacks to vote after church. Heartless, racist d-bags running things here.
The other party had to go to court to get those racist policies overturned. After the court ruled in the plaintiffs' favor, polls were open Saturdays and Sundays in the two weeks leading up to the election.
This past weekend, my wife and I volunteered to drive people without transportation to the polls. We didn't ask anybody's party or whom they were voting for. It was satisfying.
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In our fine state, the ruling party is so determined to maintain control that it has tried everything possible to suppress the vote. One thing they tried to do was cut number of early voting days in half, making only one Saturday available, and closing the polls entirely on Sundays. Why close them on Sundays, because surveys showed that was a popular day for blacks to vote after church. Heartless, racist d-bags running things here.
^^^ ban dis gf-person
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Wearing a sticker is stupid af (no offense to the many wearing one, but..)
People feel righteous and special for voting. I don’t get it. Might as well wear a “I washed my hands after hitting the John (pause)” sticker
didja ever come out of the bathroom with wet hands and ya run into someone ya know, they shake your hand and then look at ya kinda funny? well worry no more if ya keep one of these handy-
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I think this country should bring back the poll tax . Would get a much better outcome. Too many uninformed people who are easily swayed that vote.
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Obvious troll.
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didja ever come out of the bathroom with wet hands and ya run into someone ya know, they shake your hand and then look at ya kinda funny? well worry no more if ya keep one of these handy-
There he goes talking about bathrooms again.
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I think this country should bring back the poll tax . Would get a much better outcome. Too many uninformed people who are easily swayed that vote.
(https://i.imgur.com/q6vCApt.gif)
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I think this country should bring back the poll tax . Would get a much better outcome. Too many uninformed people who are easily swayed that vote.
Why dont we repeal the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments too?
C'mon man.
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Gonna be a late night here in Wisconsin
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^^^ ban dis gf-person
Hypocrite
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So according to your response, if I don't post on social media that I voted and/or that others should do the same... I am then suppressing votes?
Still giddy about voting on the pot referendums, are you?
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I think this country should bring back the poll tax . Would get a much better outcome. Too many uninformed people who are easily swayed that vote.
Quit beating around the bush. Say what you mean. “I hate poor people”.
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Tell me again why we want more people to vote?
Also, why is voting the only civic duty where we feel the need to brag we did it? I don't go around bragging that I paid sales tax at lunch today... :o
You can choose not to vote. I wish I could choose not to pay sales taxes.
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You can choose not to vote. I wish I could choose not to pay sales taxes.
Sure, as long as you also choose not to call police when someone breaks into your home, call the fire department if said home catches fire, use public roads to get around or have your trash collected.
Deal?
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An hour long wait in my voting precinct. Viva Democracy!
8 voting stations in a precinct of 10, 000
Congrats on the weed though!
We had 3 different medical marijuana proposals to vote on (they had different tax rates and benefactors of the tax collected) and one passed pretty easily. one step at a time.
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Sure, as long as you also choose not to call police when someone breaks into your home, call the fire department if said home catches fire, use public roads to get around or have your trash collected.
Deal?
No more public hospitals, parks, or sewer systems either.
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Tell me again why we want more people to vote?
So that we don't elect people that subvert Democracy?
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Congrats on the weed though!
We had 3 different medical marijuana proposals to vote on (they had different tax rates and benefactors of the tax collected) and one passed pretty easily. one step at a time.
Never touched it, not planning to start ingesting it. Curious about some of the topical cremes for muscle aches.
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You can choose not to vote. I wish I could choose not to pay sales taxes.
You have that choice. You could move.
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Never touched it, not planning to start ingesting it. Curious about some of the topical cremes for muscle aches.
99 year old father-in-law is a veteran of some nasty jungle battles in the Pacific during WW2. Plenty of aches and arthritic pains. Geriatric docs had him on traditional pain meds, including opioids. No relief. One of the grandkids brought back some cannabinol salve from a ski trip to Colorado. Is truly working wonders. He is giddy with relief. Sold me.
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99 year old father-in-law is a veteran of some nasty jungle battles in the Pacific during WW2. Plenty of aches and arthritic pains. Geriatric docs had him on traditional pain meds, including opioids. No relief. One of the grandkids brought back some cannabinol salve from a ski trip to Colorado. Is truly working wonders. He is giddy with relief. Sold me.
But did he vote?
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No more public hospitals, parks, or sewer systems either.
Or building codes, restaurant inspections, clean water (we could do better on that one), courts, jails, legal system, Coast Guard, air traffic control, post office, National Institute of Health, medical education, defense conversion, why am I doing this? Huricane forecasting, bridge inspectors, FDIC, free public education, or a functioning stock market can be added.
Stop it, I forgot, the goal is anarchy, gated communities, and luxury living in Costa Rica. I wonder if they have public golf in Costa Rica?
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99 year old father-in-law is a veteran of some nasty jungle battles in the Pacific during WW2. Plenty of aches and arthritic pains. Geriatric docs had him on traditional pain meds, including opioids. No relief. One of the grandkids brought back some cannabinol salve from a ski trip to Colorado. Is truly working wonders. He is giddy with relief. Sold me.
PM'ed.
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Or building codes, restaurant inspections, clean water (we could do better on that one), courts, jails, legal system, Coast Guard, air traffic control, post office, National Institute of Health, medical education, defense conversion, why am I doing this? Huricane forecasting, bridge inspectors, FDIC, free public education, or a functioning stock market can be added.
Stop it, I forgot, the goal is anarchy, gated communities, and luxury living in Costa Rica. I wonder if they have public golf in Costa Rica?
They're all Trump courses.
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Sure, as long as you also choose not to call police when someone breaks into your home, call the fire department if said home catches fire, use public roads to get around or have your trash collected.
Deal?
Montana, Oregon, Alaska, Delaware, New Hampshire do not have state sales taxes. MUwarrior69, maybe you should move there, and something tells me they still have public roads, fire departments, hospitals, sewer systems, trash collection and other stuff. They collect the money differently there.
https://www.thebalance.com/states-without-a-sales-tax-3193305
All in the delicate balance of things.
"A democracy cannot exist as permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury"
Alexander Fraser Tytler
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Oops. Chico forgot his new persona.
Same old, same old.
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Oops. Chico forgot his new persona.
Same old, same old.
Brandi - as a Libertarian/White Sox fan I LOVE that "new Chico" is a Democrat/Cub fan. Who knew he could make it even easier for me?
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Brandi - as a Libertarian/White Sox fan I LOVE that "new Chico" is a Democrat/Cub fan. Who knew he could make it even easier for me?
He's black, too!
Oh wait ... that was the third or fourth "new chicos," not this one.
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One of the grandkids brought back some cannabinol salve from a ski trip to Colorado.
Just feel I should throw in the disclaimer that it's generally illegal to leave the state with such items. Even if you're going to another state where it's legal. Flying is a no no, driving you can get away with it.
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They're all Trump courses.
Very funny and probably true at $500 a round.
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Just feel I should throw in the disclaimer that it's generally illegal to leave the state with such items. Even if you're going to another state where it's legal. Flying is a no no, driving you can get away with it.
Not generally.... is illegal to export THC from the state where purchased/grown/procured. Not sure if this is the case with all ten states, but my understanding is that if you buy in Nevada and cross with it into California (or vice versa) - both states, of course, having legalized - you can not only be prosecuted in federal court (regardless) as well as in both states if you don't have a transport license. Granted, that's a highly unlikely scenario, but the Feds have been hands off the past few years in CO and WA in no small part because the states were doing a good job containing it. Now that more states are legalizing, I have a feeling that people might get a bit lazy with observing state borders/laws.
IOW, the easiest way to screw things up for everyone is to start taking THC across state lines.
But the best way to screw things up for yourself is to take any amount of THC through TSA. Transporting across state lines (i.e. trafficking) is a much worse offense than simple possession in Wisconsin (or any other non-legal state), and the odds of you getting sniffed by a dog at the airport vs. pulled over in your car couldn't be further apart.
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Not generally.... is illegal to export THC from the state where purchased/grown/procured. Not sure if this is the case with all ten states, but my understanding is that if you buy in Nevada and cross with it into California (or vice versa) - both states, of course, having legalized - you can not only be prosecuted in federal court (regardless) as well as in both states if you don't have a transport license. Granted, that's a highly unlikely scenario, but the Feds have been hands off the past few years in CO and WA in no small part because the states were doing a good job containing it. Now that more states are legalizing, I have a feeling that people might get a bit lazy with observing state borders/laws.
IOW, the easiest way to screw things up for everyone is to start taking THC across state lines.
But the best way to screw things up for yourself is to take any amount of THC through TSA. Transporting across state lines (i.e. trafficking) is a much worse offense than simple possession in Wisconsin (or any other non-legal state), and the odds of you getting sniffed by a dog at the airport vs. pulled over in your car couldn't be further apart.
If any of you want expert advice - my BIL works for the largest law firm in the U.S. that specializes in marijuana law.
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If any of you want expert advice - my BIL works for the largest law firm in the U.S. that specializes in marijuana law.
Dewey, Cheetos & Howe?
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"A democracy cannot exist as permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury"
Alexander Fraser Tytler
[/quote]
What is the alternative?
Monarchy, dictatorship, totalitarianism, fascism, anarchy?
I live part time in northern Italy among many fascists, they don't like democracy either.
Some like the idea of a Nobel class with lots of serfs. It is a great way of getting magnificent cathedrals.
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What is the alternative?
Plato's vision of a philosopher-king. (Which will never happen.)
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Dewey, Cheetos & Howe?
Good one! ;D
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Not generally.... is illegal to export THC from the state where purchased/grown/procured.
I worded it poorly, but my understanding is that there are some CBD salves that use industrial hemp as the source (no thc), and should be legal in all states.
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He's black, too!
Oh wait ... that was the third or fourth "new chicos," not this one.
I thought he just had lots and lots of black “friends”.
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Brandi - as a Libertarian/White Sox fan I LOVE that "new Chico" is a Democrat/Cub fan. Who knew he could make it even easier for me?
Please take him back. We (Dems) already have too many like him.
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I think this country should bring back the poll tax . Would get a much better outcome. Too many uninformed people who are easily swayed that vote.
I agree - anyone who voted for Herman Cain, the 62 million who voted for Donald Trump are exactly who you're talking about.
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I worded it poorly, but my understanding is that there are some CBD salves that use industrial hemp as the source (no thc), and should be legal in all states.
Yes, there are, as well as chews/gummies.
CBD is excellent from a pain relief perspective. I usually use lotions or gels but I've found some of the edibles not only do the job that I'd usually need a muscle relaxant for, but the THC/CBD gummies really help to relax the mind and body and are great for sleeping issues. My wife takes them for anxiety issues she has at work - her boss suggested it. Vaping it is good too. I have found my use of pain killers like Advil has dropped significantly after starting CBD products.
The whole marijuana prohibition is one of the biggest jokes of a policy in this country's history.
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Monarchy, dictatorship, totalitarianism, fascism, anarchy?
I live part time in northern Italy among many fascists, they don't like democracy either.
Some like the idea of a Nobel class with lots of serfs. It is a great way of getting magnificent cathedrals.
“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” - -Churchill
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Yes, there are, as well as chews/gummies.
CBD is excellent from a pain relief perspective. I usually use lotions or gels but I've found some of the edibles not only do the job that I'd usually need a muscle relaxant for, but the THC/CBD gummies really help to relax the mind and body and are great for sleeping issues. My wife takes them for anxiety issues she has at work - her boss suggested it. Vaping it is good too. I have found my use of pain killers like Advil has dropped significantly after starting CBD products.
The whole marijuana prohibition is one of the biggest jokes of a policy in this country's history.
Agreed. Started out of fear of the hemp industry, and then grew. Now its based on fear mongering, half truths, and uber conservatives who would outlaw alcohol if they could.
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The whole marijuana prohibition is one of the biggest jokes of a policy in this country's history.
The fact that it continues to be a schedule 1 drug boggles the mind.
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The fact that it continues to be a schedule 1 drug boggles the mind.
I think that has to do with the fact that THC is a) not universally accepted for its medicinal properties and b) there's no accepted standard for monitoring its use.
It would seem both of those would wear off in time. Inherently, THC does seem more like a Schedule 2, but the AMA is essentially the de facto final arbiter of what is/isn't on Schedule 1, and until they rule on THC, it's likely staying put.
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I think that has to do with the fact that THC is a) not universally accepted for its medicinal properties and b) there's no accepted standard for monitoring its use.
It would seem both of those would wear off in time. Inherently, THC does seem more like a Schedule 2, but the AMA is essentially the de facto final arbiter of what is/isn't on Schedule 1, and until they rule on THC, it's likely staying put.
I get that there is nuance that I'm not familiar with but the fact that pot is a schedule 1 and cocaine and meth are schedule 2 just doesn't pass the sniff test (pun 117% intended)
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Agreed. Started out of fear of the hemp industry, and then grew. Now its based on fear mongering, half truths, and uber conservatives who would outlaw alcohol if they could.
Speaking of..........
Inconsolable Jeff Sessions Tries To Commit Suicide By Smoking Joint
https://politics.theonion.com/inconsolable-jeff-sessions-tries-to-commit-suicide-by-s-1826462420
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I think that has to do with the fact that THC is a) not universally accepted for its medicinal properties and b) there's no accepted standard for monitoring its use.
It would seem both of those would wear off in time. Inherently, THC does seem more like a Schedule 2, but the AMA is essentially the de facto final arbiter of what is/isn't on Schedule 1, and until they rule on THC, it's likely staying put.
Well since they aren't allowed to do studies on THC it makes that hard.
Also, if pot becomes legal, a lot of the prisons that give a lot of politicians donations will lose a lot of their customers.
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Plato's vision of a philosopher-king. (Which will never happen.)
Enlightened despots come along infrequently - if you want the job you're likely not all that enlightened.
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Enlightened despots come along infrequently - if you want the job you're likely not all that enlightened.
Ahhhh....how philosophical.
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Speaking of..........
Inconsolable Jeff Sessions Tries To Commit Suicide By Smoking Joint
https://politics.theonion.com/inconsolable-jeff-sessions-tries-to-commit-suicide-by-s-1826462420
Now THAT made me laugh!
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Yes, there are, as well as chews/gummies.
CBD is excellent from a pain relief perspective. I usually use lotions or gels but I've found some of the edibles not only do the job that I'd usually need a muscle relaxant for, but the THC/CBD gummies really help to relax the mind and body and are great for sleeping issues. My wife takes them for anxiety issues she has at work - her boss suggested it. Vaping it is good too. I have found my use of pain killers like Advil has dropped significantly after starting CBD products.
The whole marijuana prohibition is one of the biggest jokes of a policy in this country's history.
Advil is not a pain killer, per se
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Agreed. Started out of fear of the hemp industry, and then grew. Now its based on fear mongering, half truths, and uber conservatives who would outlaw alcohol if they could.
Look into the beginnings of the demonization of marijuana more. Had less to do with the plant/chemicals and more to do with th people using it.
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Dewey, Cheetos & Howe?
Please give attribution to NPR, Car Talk, Clink and Clank.
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I get that there is nuance that I'm not familiar with but the fact that pot is a schedule 1 and cocaine and meth are schedule 2 just doesn't pass the sniff test (pun 117% intended)
Cocaine actually does have an acceptable medical use as an anesthetic for certain ENT procedures. Incidentally, it’s manufactured from the cocaine that they remove from the coca leaves for Coca-Cola.
Speculating, but guessing meth is categorized with amphetamine which does have several medical uses.
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Cocaine actually does have an acceptable medical use as an anesthetic for certain ENT procedures. Incidentally, it’s manufactured from the cocaine that they remove from the coca leaves for Coca-Cola.
Speculating, but guessing meth is categorized with amphetamine which does have several medical uses.
Methylphenidate is Ritalin / Adderall
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Methylphenidate is Ritalin / Adderall
Adderall is amphetamine.
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I worded it poorly, but my understanding is that there are some CBD salves that use industrial hemp as the source (no thc), and should be legal in all states.
Incidentally, CBD was considered schedule 1 until a little over a month ago. It is now schedule 5.
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Adderall is amphetamine.
It is one example of amphetamine... IIRC, amphetamines are an entire class of drugs, not just a single formula sold under a bunch of brand names.
Methylphenidate is Ritalin / Adderall
https://www.rxlist.com/adderall_vs_ritalin/drugs-condition.htm
Both Adderall (amphetamine and dextroamphetamine) and Ritalin (methylphenidate) are central nervous system stimulants used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
Methylphenidate (also sold as Concerta) isn't an amphetamine and its effects tend to be milder than those of Adderall. Patients also report a more pronounced effect on cognitive function and thought processes when taking Ritalin as opposed to Adderall, which comes with a number of effects on the body such as increased heart rate and others.
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"A democracy cannot exist as permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury"
Alexander Fraser Tytler
What is the alternative?
Monarchy, dictatorship, totalitarianism, fascism, anarchy?
I live part time in northern Italy among many fascists, they don't like democracy either.
Some like the idea of a Nobel class with lots of serfs. It is a great way of getting magnificent cathedrals.
I enjoy the system we live in. Nothing is perfect. Churchill said something to the effect. The quote is famous about the delicate balance that exists, where a Democracy can be destroyed from within.
As for state taxes, I again would suggest to MUWarrior69 that he could move to one of those five states if he has a problem with paying them, but in the end taxes are paid another way to fund roads, sewers, hospitals, all needed for a society to function.
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I worded it poorly, but my understanding is that there are some CBD salves that use industrial hemp as the source (no thc), and should be legal in all states.
Fairly certain the latest farm bill in the Senate will make that federal law as you suggest. The 2014 Farm Bill expired in the last month, and experts give it an 80% chance of passing in the lame duck session.
https://ministryofhemp.com/blog/2018-farm-bill/
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Well since they aren't allowed to do studies on THC it makes that hard.
Also, if pot becomes legal, a lot of the prisons that give a lot of politicians donations will lose a lot of their customers.
That's not true... there have been scores, perhaps hundreds, of publicly and privately funded studies on THC overseen by the gov't. You think they just came up with that plot element in Half Baked on their own? Of course not. Hell, the gov't even funded LSD experiments during the cold war. Any avid watcher of Archer (or fan of Christian Slater in general) knows that.
And I would be willing to bet that the majority of those jailed for petty marijuana offenses are predominantly being held in state and county lockups, not the for-profit supermaxx's (which don't exist in every state, by the way). Illinois, for one, has an outright ban on privatization of prisons. I would also be willing to bet that these prison operators have fixed contracts in place such that their profitability doesn't vary materially as the prison population fluctuates.
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It is one example of amphetamine... IIRC, amphetamines are an entire class of drugs, not just a single formula sold under a bunch of brand names.
Both Adderall (amphetamine and dextroamphetamine)
Adderall is amphetamine, more specifically it is a mixture of salts of amphetamine to allow time-controlled release. That is a specific chemical, and what the founding member of the class "amphetamines". It comes in two flavors, dextro- and levo- (also known as D- and L- or R- and S-), that are non-superimposable mirror images of each other (called enantiomers).
Dextro- is used for ADHD. Levo- you can buy over the counter in some decongestants.
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Adderall is amphetamine, more specifically it is a mixture of salts of amphetamine to allow time-controlled release. That is a specific chemical, and what the founding member of the class "amphetamines". It comes in two flavors, dextro- and levo- (also known as D- and L- or R- and S-), that are non-superimposable mirror images of each other (called enantiomers).
Dextro- is used for ADHD. Levo- you can buy over the counter in some decongestants.
Don't you mean an asymmetrical reciprocal?
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Re: voting...
It would seem Arizona and Florida are still being decided
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That's not true... there have been scores, perhaps hundreds, of publicly and privately funded studies on THC overseen by the gov't. You think they just came up with that plot element in Half Baked on their own? Of course not. Hell, the gov't even funded LSD experiments during the cold war. Any avid watcher of Archer (or fan of Christian Slater in general) knows that.
And I would be willing to bet that the majority of those jailed for petty marijuana offenses are predominantly being held in state and county lockups, not the for-profit supermaxx's (which don't exist in every state, by the way). Illinois, for one, has an outright ban on privatization of prisons. I would also be willing to bet that these prison operators have fixed contracts in place such that their profitability doesn't vary materially as the prison population fluctuates.
It's not easy to do studies at all. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK425757/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK425757/)
Also, all prisons are big bucks for a lot of people - whether public or private. There is a very real reason a lot of people want to keep lots of people, the vast majority of which are black and brown, locked up for non-violent marijuana (drug) offenses.
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Re: voting...
It would seem Arizona and Florida are still being decided
Independent of who wants what results....it is amazing how stupid we are at the actual process of voting. My god Broward County, I'm pretty sure you should know to get the election process right, and yet, epic fail!
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Independent of who wants what results....it is amazing how stupid we are at the actual process of voting. My god Broward County, I'm pretty sure you should know to get the election process right, and yet, epic fail!
What's really boggling is that they're still trying to figure out how Pat Buchanan got on the ballot this year.
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What's really boggling is that they're still trying to figure out how Pat Buchanan got on the ballot this year.
LOL!!! Recycled ballots?
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LOL!!! Recycled ballots?
BTW - Everyone should watch the latest episode of South Park. It's hilarious... I'm super cereal.
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Ever open a thread on Scoop and wonder how it can go from this:
An hour long wait in my voting precinct. Viva Democracy!
8 voting stations in a precinct of 10, 000
to this:
Adderall is amphetamine, more specifically it is a mixture of salts of amphetamine to allow time-controlled release. That is a specific chemical, and what the founding member of the class "amphetamines". It comes in two flavors, dextro- and levo- (also known as D- and L- or R- and S-), that are non-superimposable mirror images of each other (called enantiomers).
Dextro- is used for ADHD. Levo- you can buy over the counter in some decongestants.
in just a couple of pages?
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Independent of who wants what results....it is amazing how stupid we are at the actual process of voting. My god Broward County, I'm pretty sure you should know to get the election process right, and yet, epic fail!
Broward and Palm Beach counties do it the old fashioned Chicago/Cook County way - they wait for the rest of the state to count their ballots, see how many votes they need and try to "produce" them.
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Broward and Palm Beach counties do it the old fashioned Chicago/Cook County way - they wait for the rest of the state to count their ballots, see how many votes they need and try to "produce" them.
Could someone legit explain this? I mean, if there was voter ballot fraud on a mass, historical level like you are suggesting, wouldn't FL's Sec of State (a Republican) or the FL Gov (a Republican) or the FL Atty General (a Republican) investigate these processes (from years' past)?
Without searching, I would assume investigations have occurred and turned up no mass fake ballot fabricating process and just found what's obvious: grossly inefficient ballot counting. Am I wrong?
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There isn't massive vote fraud. This is what the right claims whenever the absentee ballots start getting counted. This is largely a result of making the process more voter friendly. Hey but any excuse in a storm right?
A party of false bravado, victims and conspiracy theorists.
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There isn't massive vote fraud. This is what the right claims whenever the absentee ballots start getting counted. This is largely a result of making the process more voter friendly. Hey but any excuse in a storm right?
Look at Arizona. People are whining about voter fraud because mail ballots are still being counted. But even the local Republicans don't think anything is amiss.
I think the difference is that Broward county appears to be, and has been for a while, grossly incompetent in executing the job in an efficient manner. That incompetence allows people to throw out any allegation they want and have the conversation shift to 'either they need to be removed or they are criminals' without any actual proof.
To hilltops point - if it was criminal activity a suit/investigation would have been brought to fruition.
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I think the difference is that Broward county appears to be, and has been for a while, grossly incompetent in executing the job in an efficient manner. That incompetence allows people to throw out any allegation they want and have the conversation shift to 'either they need to be removed or they are criminals' without any actual proof.
Of course. Everything's a conspiracy.
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I think the difference is that Broward county appears to be, and has been for a while, grossly incompetent in executing the job in an efficient manner. That incompetence allows people to throw out any allegation they want and have the conversation shift to 'either they need to be removed or they are criminals' without any actual proof.
To hilltops point - if it was criminal activity a suit/investigation would have been brought to fruition.
Brenda Snipes was found (said she would appeal, don't think she did) to have illegally destroyed ballots in the 2016 election. She is still in charge.
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Brenda Snipes was found (said she would appeal, don't think she did) to have illegally destroyed ballots in the 2016 election. She is still in charge.
She destroyed ballots 12 months after an election instead of the required 22. She didn't destroy them during the process, and the destruction didn't alter the outcome of any election.
She's had plenty of other issues. She's clearly incompetent and should be removed from her job. That doesn't mean she's fraudulent.
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O, eye sea wear dis iz goin'. Eye'll beet Jeff two da punch. Inn beefour da lock, aina?
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This is a really good explanation:
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/9vnwhv/whats_the_deal_with_broward_county_and_the_talks/e9du73w/
Bottom line: Lots of votes to count, and each one takes time as they verify signatures (which is insanity.)
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This is a really good explanation:
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/9vnwhv/whats_the_deal_with_broward_county_and_the_talks/e9du73w/
Bottom line: Lots of votes to count, and each one takes time as they verify signatures (which is insanity.)
The judge ruled against Palm and Broward counties yesterday. http://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/decision-2018/2018/11/09/recount-all-eyes-on-tight-florida-races
Looks like on the Broward side they accidentally mixed provisional ballots with actual ballots. The incompetence in that office has been a problem going back many years. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/09/after-trump-scott-cry-fraud-critics-pounce-broward-countys-troubled-election-history/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1db4b4e000b9
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Brenda Snipes was found (said she would appeal, don't think she did) to have illegally destroyed ballots in the 2016 election. She is still in charge.
Someone on MSNBC made a good point today. Miami-Dade county got their vote tally done and submitted to the Secretary of State. They are the largest county in Florida, but Palm and Broward didn't. Those two counties continue to have these issues time and again. Looks like Scott should have fired her in 2016. This may come back to haunt him.
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Hilarious to hear all this from the state that handed the presidency to Dubya.
But yeah, it is pretty pathetic that in 2018, these counties can't get this right and state leadership (i.e. Scott himself) couldn't have gotten it fixed.
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Hilarious to hear all this from the state that handed the presidency to Dubya.
But yeah, it is pretty pathetic that in 2018, these counties can't get this right and state leadership (i.e. Scott himself) couldn't have gotten it fixed.
The Supreme Court ruled it so, by 7-2 vote if memory serves.
Miami Herald article today with the headline "WHOOPS! Brenda Snipes office mixed bad provisional ballots with good ones"
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article221452655.html
Even the hurricane ravaged panhandle counties got their votes in. Now accusations that Broward duplicated ballots in private (no supervision) and originals cannot be replicated. That's a felony. This woman needs to be removed. Same for the crazy GOP nut in Waukesha County that can't run her shop properly.
Final tallies are in. Close, about 12K margin, will trigger a manual recount. In the history of recounts the greatest flips of votes was 1247 so this is over unless a new record of reversal 10X greater than history. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/recounts-rarely-reverse-election-results/
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The Supreme Court ruled it so, by 7-2 vote if memory serves.
Miami Herald article today with the headline "WHOOPS! Brenda Snipes office mixed bad provisional ballots with good ones"
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article221452655.html
Even the hurricane ravaged panhandle counties got their votes in. Now accusations that Broward duplicated ballots in private (no supervision) and originals cannot be replicated. That's a felony. This woman needs to be removed. Same for the crazy GOP nut in Waukesha County that can't run her shop properly.
Final tallies are in. Close, about 12K margin, will trigger a manual recount. In the history of recounts the greatest flips of votes was 1247 so this is over unless a new record of reversal 10X greater than history. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/recounts-rarely-reverse-election-results/
Your memory sucks Chicos. 5-4.
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The Supreme Court ruled it so, by 7-2 vote if memory serves.
Miami Herald article today with the headline "WHOOPS! Brenda Snipes office mixed bad provisional ballots with good ones"
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article221452655.html
Even the hurricane ravaged panhandle counties got their votes in. Now accusations that Broward duplicated ballots in private (no supervision) and originals cannot be replicated. That's a felony. This woman needs to be removed. Same for the crazy GOP nut in Waukesha County that can't run her shop properly.
Final tallies are in. Close, about 12K margin, will trigger a manual recount. In the history of recounts the greatest flips of votes was 1247 so this is over unless a new record of reversal 10X greater than history. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/recounts-rarely-reverse-election-results/
Phew. I thought you were going to forget to point out faults on both sides. Good thing you dropped in that last sentence.
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Your memory sucks Chicos. 5-4.
Two rulings. 7 to 2. 5 to 4
7 to 2 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/dec/13/uselections2000.usa1
Video for those that don't like to read. 7 to 2 in the most important ruling. Let us also not forget that every post analysis done by the media on what Gore wanted showed he would have lost anyway. Seriously, get over it. We lost.
https://www.youtube.com/v/RjaB3cxH-XE
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Phew. I thought you were going to forget to point out faults on both sides. Good thing you dropped in that last sentence.
Where merited I will. I'm not partisan like others are. If my side is corrupt, say it. If the other side is corrupt, say it.
For example, Brenda Snipes got in trouble back in May of this year when another Democrat sued her in the election against Debbie Wasserman Schulz. That was Democrat vs Democrat election. Snipes is bad news.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fl-sb-broward-elections-supervisor-broke-law-snipes-canova-20180514-story.html
Last night she and attorneys argued to keep votes in from non US citizens as official. PDFs of transcripts were released in the last few hours. I'm sorry, but call me old school, that cannot be allowed to happen. These are US elections, US citizens are the ones that need to be voting in them.
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" Looks like Scott should have fired her in 2016"
you do realize that if scott were to even think about this, he would be a racist of course, have to enter into the federal witness protection plan...and miss the packer-dolphin game ;)
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Two rulings. 7 to 2. 5 to 4
7 to 2 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/dec/13/uselections2000.usa1
You’re a poor historian Cheekz. The 5-4 decision is the one that mattered because rather than provide a remedy to do a proper recount, the Court ended the whole thing altogether. It was overtly political and is commonly understood to be one of the worst-reasoned decisions in SCOTUS history (so much so that even SCOTUS itself limited the application of law to only that particular order, i.e. no stare decisis, which is unusual and betrayed an extraordinary lack of confidence in the soundness of its own decision). It was not a high-water mark for my Republican Party. Shameful, really.
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If my side is corrupt, say it.
Hehe ... "your" side ... you're killing us, cubbiechicos.
" Looks like Scott should have fired her in 2016"
you do realize that if scott were to even think about this, he would be a racist of course, have to enter into the federal witness protection plan...and miss the packer-dolphin game ;)
And now here comes Boo-Boo with his "humorous" pointing out of reverse racism ... which as everybody from "a certain side" knows is worse than actual racism.
Good stuff!
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You’re a poor historian Cheekz. The 5-4 decision is the one that mattered because rather than provide a remedy to do a proper recount, the Court ended the whole thing altogether. It was overtly political and is commonly understood to be one of the worst-reasoned decisions in SCOTUS history (so much so that even SCOTUS itself limited the application of law to only that particular order, i.e. no stare decisis, which is unusual and betrayed an extraordinary lack of confidence in the soundness of its own decision). It was not a high-water mark for my Republican Party. Shameful, really.
7-2 ended the improper remedy by the Florida Supreme Court. Violated the equal protection clause to have different standards used, thus violating those that voted in other parts of the state. 5-4 stopped it all BECAUSE of the faulty ruling of the Fla Supreme Court. The 7-2 decision led to the 5-4 remedy. If the Florida Supreme Court hadn't created new election law (only a state legislature can do this, not the judiciary) then the second decision isn't even necessary.
All post analysis says Bush wins anyway based on what Gore sued on, so why is this even a thing for our side 18 years later? We lost.
AP: A vote-by-vote review of untallied ballots in the 2000 Florida presidential election indicates George W. Bush would have narrowly prevailed in the partial recounts sought by Al Gore, but Gore might have reversed the outcome – by the barest of margins – had he pursued and gained a complete statewide recount.
Palm Beach Post: Al Gore was doomed. He couldn’t have caught George W. Bush even if his two best chances for an official recount had played out.
USA Today: George W. Bush would have won a hand recount of all disputed ballots in Florida’s presidential election if the most widely accepted standard for judging votes had been applied.
moveon
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" Looks like Scott should have fired her in 2016"
you do realize that if scott were to even think about this, he would be a racist of course, have to enter into the federal witness protection plan...and miss the packer-dolphin game ;)
Stop with the racial stuff. Someone is either competent or not. She is not competent.
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7-2 ended the improper remedy by the Florida Supreme Court. Violated the equal protection clause to have different standards used, thus violating those that voted in other parts of the state. 5-4 stopped it all BECAUSE of the faulty ruling of the Fla Supreme Court. The 7-2 decision led to the 5-4 remedy. If the Florida Supreme Court hadn't created new election law (only a state legislature can do this, not the judiciary) then the second decision isn't even necessary.
All post analysis says Bush wins anyway based on what Gore sued on, so why is this even a thing for our side 18 years later? We lost.
AP: A vote-by-vote review of untallied ballots in the 2000 Florida presidential election indicates George W. Bush would have narrowly prevailed in the partial recounts sought by Al Gore, but Gore might have reversed the outcome – by the barest of margins – had he pursued and gained a complete statewide recount.
Palm Beach Post: Al Gore was doomed. He couldn’t have caught George W. Bush even if his two best chances for an official recount had played out.
USA Today: George W. Bush would have won a hand recount of all disputed ballots in Florida’s presidential election if the most widely accepted standard for judging votes had been applied.
moveon
Oh no, I wasn’t having a debate about this, simply pointing out that you were (and are) wrong about the meaning of the cases. Your side lost, and in a different way, so did my Republican Party.
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Stop with the racial stuff. Someone is either competent or not. She is not competent.
you are absolutely correct-the american people and floridians deserve better than this. not being racial. being incredibly honest and unfortunately, correct as well. tried to lighten it up with a little jocularity, but whatever...
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All post analysis says Bush wins anyway based on what Gore sued on, so why is this even a thing for our side 18 years later? We lost.
"These tallies conducted by the NORC consortium are caveated with the statement: "But no study of this type can accurately recreate Election Day 2000 or predict what might have emerged from individual battles over more than 6 million votes in Florida's 67 counties."
Wiki
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Broward and Palm Beach counties do it the old fashioned Chicago/Cook County way - they wait for the rest of the state to count their ballots, see how many votes they need and try to "produce" them.
In the 1941 Senate primary election Lydon Johnson paid off the people in charge . However he did not win. After the election he asked what happened and he was told, he only paid for a certain amount of votes. That next time he needed to pay to actually win.
When the 1948 election rolled around he paid the amount necessary to win.
The tradition of "finding votes" is alive and well.
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7-2 ended the improper remedy by the Florida Supreme Court. Violated the equal protection clause to have different standards used, thus violating those that voted in other parts of the state. 5-4 stopped it all BECAUSE of the faulty ruling of the Fla Supreme Court. The 7-2 decision led to the 5-4 remedy. If the Florida Supreme Court hadn't created new election law (only a state legislature can do this, not the judiciary) then the second decision isn't even necessary.
You're wrong because you are misinterpreting it.
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Your memory sucks Chicos. 5-4.
And Sandra Day O'Connor had told everyone previously that she wanted to retire, but would only do so if there was a Republican President in office to pick a replacement for her seat, so she made cast the deciding vote to halt the recount.
She later regretted it. For years she defended the decision, but then slowly changed her position. She didn't like what the party morphed into after 2000 and gradually moved away from the Republican party. In later years she said the SC should never have taken the case. Shouldn't have been an "activist judge" Sandy!
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And Sandra Day O'Connor had told everyone previously that she wanted to retire, but would only do so if there was a Republican President in office to pick a replacement for her seat, so she made cast the deciding vote to halt the recount.
She later regretted it. For years she defended the decision, but then slowly changed her position. She didn't like what the party morphed into after 2000 and gradually moved away from the Republican party. In later years she said the SC should never have taken the case. Shouldn't have been an "activist judge" Sandy!
Wow, who are you T-34? Right on and said so beautifully. Could not have come close to your eloquence. Not argumentative, political or controversial, just very well presented and factual. Thank you.
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Wow, who are you T-34? Right on and said so beautifully. Could not have come close to your eloquence. Not argumentative, political or controversial, just very well presented and factual. Thank you.
maybe so, except for the "activist" part. don't you guys prefer the term "maverick"
the bigger question here is should the supreme court have been involved at all? if so, the ruling would have the appearance of being politically biased regardless of which decision was made. with the supreme court engaged, the ruling had to be made based on what was right and proper in accordance with our constitution. so if they would have voted 5-4 to continue the recount or ipso facto hand the victory over to algore, would that be considered "activist"?
weren't they ruling on whether or not the florida supreme court(7-2 decision) got it right or not? in other words, what warrior daddy was saying-florida violated the process-yes or no? if the supreme court says yes, is o'conner, because she cast the deciding vote, an activist? it's funny the other 4 get off scott-free.
yes i realize justice o'cconner has expressed some regrets, but if we would not have known anything of these, we are left to our own suspicions and biases. but because she verbalized her thoughts in retrospect, it gives one side the ongoing fodder it needs to keep the debate open. bottom line, justice o'conner needs to "man-up" and respect the decision she made under the circumstances at the time. to take an event out of it's time and place, one can always 2nd guess it; just be mindful of the revisionism that usually follows
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As a new Floridian, I'm stunned this is still a problem. I just don't get it. This ain't Illinois -- or so I thought until this week!
I voted early in Indian River County. Went to the County Library in Downtown Vero Beach. I showed a driver's license, was verified to vote, told what my precient was and then given a ballot. I went into a private space, marked my ballot (no hanging chads!), put it into a sleeve and carried it over to a scanner, which registered my vote. I then went home.
In our county, we verify eligibility by examining the voting rolls and reviewing a driver's license or other valid picture identification issued by either the State of Florida or the federal government (i.e., a passport). Incidentally, Florida scans a driver's license to get the number and assure that one's identity has been checked. I signed for my ballot but that was electronic and an acknowledgement that I received a ballot.
Given all of this, it seems inconceivable that we could have "provisional" ballots. That's why when we read about the screw-ups in Broward and Palm Beach Counties, we just shook our heads. The Senate and Governor's races were highly emotional and extremely close and while it is easy to say "screw-up," one has to wonder whether the ghosts of Lyndon Johnson and Richard J. Daley went south for eternity.
P.S. -- Apparently, as Ms. Dgies points out, this whole provisional ballot mess was caused by a 2011 law that allowed people who had moved within the state to cast a "provisional" ballot while their eligibility was checked or allowed people who forgot their ID to vote provisionally while their eligibility was further checked. Well, the latter provision could only happen in Florida, also known as God's Waiting Room!
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I expect reasonably intelligent people to read up and educate themselves on why issues occur. I don't have much use for people, when they witness incompetence, to assume it is conspiracy.
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As a new Floridian, I'm stunned this is still a problem. I just don't get it. This ain't Illinois -- or so I thought until this week!
I voted early in Indian River County. Went to the County Library in Downtown Vero Beach. I showed a driver's license, was verified to vote, told what my precient was and then given a ballot. I went into a private space, marked my ballot (no hanging chads!), put it into a sleeve and carried it over to a scanner, which registered my vote. I then went home.
In our county, we verify eligibility by examining the voting rolls and reviewing a driver's license or other valid picture identification issued by either the State of Florida or the federal government (i.e., a passport). Incidentally, Florida scans a driver's license to get the number and assure that one's identity has been checked. I signed for my ballot but that was electronic and an acknowledgement that I received a ballot.
Given all of this, it seems inconceivable that we could have "provisional" ballots. That's why when we read about the screw-ups in Broward and Palm Beach Counties, we just shook our heads. The Senate and Governor's races were highly emotional and extremely close and while it is easy to say "screw-up," one has to wonder whether the ghosts of Lyndon Johnson and Richard J. Daley went south for eternity.
P.S. -- Apparently, as Ms. Dgies points out, this whole provisional ballot mess was caused by a 2011 law that allowed people who had moved within the state to cast a "provisional" ballot while their eligibility was checked or allowed people who forgot their ID to vote provisionally while their eligibility was further checked. Well, the latter provision could only happen in Florida, also known as God's Waiting Room!
Provisional ballots are allowed because there is no remedy for someone being improperly barred from voting. If, say, the election judge screws up, the disenfranchised person can't simply come back a few days later and try again. That right to vote in that election is denied forever. So they cast a ballot that remains in a sort of limbo until his or her eligibility can be determined.
How anyone would find this unusual or unreasonable, much less inconceivable, is beyond me.
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And Sandra Day O'Connor had told everyone previously that she wanted to retire, but would only do so if there was a Republican President in office to pick a replacement for her seat, so she made cast the deciding vote to halt the recount.
She later regretted it. For years she defended the decision, but then slowly changed her position. She didn't like what the party morphed into after 2000 and gradually moved away from the Republican party. In later years she said the SC should never have taken the case. Shouldn't have been an "activist judge" Sandy!
Let's not overstate what she said. She has doubt, she didn't say it was wrong. Maybes. Probably. Nothing definitive.
"It took the case and decided it at a time when it was still a big election issue," O'Connor said during a talk Friday with the Tribune editorial board. "Maybe the court should have said, 'We're not going to take it, goodbye.'"
The case, she said, "stirred up the public" and "gave the court a less-than-perfect reputation."
"Obviously the court did reach a decision and thought it had to reach a decision," she said. "It turned out the election authorities in Florida hadn't done a real good job there and kind of messed it up. And probably the Supreme Court added to the problem at the end of the day."
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I expect reasonably intelligent people to read up and educate themselves on why issues occur. I don't have much use for people, when they witness incompetence, to assume it is conspiracy.
One has to ask if the incompetence is intentional. Partisan. Those are important questions to ask. One can understand why conspiracies come up when 80% to 90% of votes that are found are benefiting one side as reported today. My guess is if the shoe was on the other foot and Beto was winning in Texas, we might have a different viewpoint. Imagine the scenario right now in Georgia where one person lost, 5800 votes were "found" yesterday, over 85% of them for one person. Those are the things that make people question what is going on. No differently than my parents living through JFK and Nixon with Illinois voting. Texas voting back then, also.
You're wrong because you are misinterpreting it.
Maybe I am, but this is a topic like others in the law where people can interpret things differently and still be solid with the law on their side. I may not agree with Scalia on most things, but would anyone say he was not an expert in the law? He said it was the correct decision and 7-2 the key decision. Others agree and yet others will say differently and disagree. The law is a funny thing like that, which is why decisions are rarely unanimous.
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In our county, we verify eligibility by examining the voting rolls and reviewing a driver's license or other valid picture identification issued by either the State of Florida or the federal government (i.e., a passport). Incidentally, Florida scans a driver's license to get the number and assure that one's identity has been checked. I signed for my ballot but that was electronic and an acknowledgement that I received a ballot.
It is quite peculiar that a bigger county, Miami-Dade can have all their stuff together and comply with the law, as well as the panhandle counties that were rocked only a few weeks ago by the Hurricane, but every time Broward and Palm have problems.
That is why conspiracy theories start, when it is repetitive. What's the old saying. It isn't who is doing the voting, but who is doing the counting.
The non-citizen votes that she wants counted, that's a bridge too far. Now 22 votes that people are aware of officially. It's not the number, as it is small, its the fact that people are arguing they should be included at all because of their error. When do non-US citizens have the right to vote in state elections? That is not right and to watch that argument be made is really something.
Washington Post, Miami Herald, all piling on her incompetence.
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One has to ask if the incompetence is intentional. Partisan. Those are important questions to ask. One can understand why conspiracies come up when 80% to 90% of votes that are found are benefiting one side as reported today. My guess is if the shoe was on the other foot and Beto was winning in Texas, we might have a different viewpoint. Imagine the scenario right now in Georgia where one person lost, 5800 votes were "found" yesterday, over 85% of them for one person. Those are the things that make people question what is going on. No differently than my parents living through JFK and Nixon with Illinois voting. Texas voting back then, also.
I expect people of all political persuasions to be smart, do research and seek understanding. Not to just buy into the latest conspiracy.
As for your typical, wishy-washy "both sides" bullsh*t:
https://journalistsresource.org/studies/politics/polarization/conspiracy-theories-conservatives-liberals-knowledge-trust
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It is quite peculiar that a bigger county, Miami-Dade can have all their stuff together and comply with the law, as well as the panhandle counties that were rocked only a few weeks ago by the Hurricane, but every time Broward and Palm have problems.
That is why conspiracy theories start, when it is repetitive. What's the old saying. It isn't who is doing the voting, but who is doing the counting.
The non-citizen votes that she wants counted, that's a bridge too far. Now 22 votes that people are aware of officially. It's not the number, as it is small, its the fact that people are arguing they should be included at all because of their error. When do non-US citizens have the right to vote in state elections? That is not right and to watch that argument be made is really something.
Washington Post, Miami Herald, all piling on her incompetence.
So wait ... is she incompetent, or is she the mastermind of a huge conspiracy to rig elections in favor of Democrats all while under the eye of (largely) Republican state officials?
Can't have it both ways, guys.
Also, you're wrong about the non-citizen vote thing.
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One can understand why conspiracies come up when 80% to 90% of votes that are found are benefiting one side as reported today. My guess is if the shoe was on the other foot and Beto was winning in Texas, we might have a different viewpoint. Imagine the scenario right now in Georgia where one person lost, 5800 votes were "found" yesterday, over 85% of them for one person.
You point out something that is 100% fact. Conspiracy theories come up, because people are unwilling or unable to simply look at data and facts and make a logical conclusion, but rather immediately craft a scenario that benefits their pre-held beliefs.
The votes are coming up 80-90% benefiting one side, because they are coming from districts that vote 80% democratic. It is exactly what is expected based on the underlying data and facts.
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So wait ... is she incompetent, or is she the mastermind of a huge conspiracy to rig elections in favor of Democrats all while under the eye of (largely) Republican state officials?
Can't have it both ways, guys.
Also, you're wrong about the non-citizen vote thing.
Perfect application of Hanlon's Razor: Never ascribe to malfeasance what can be explained by incompetence.
Broward County is terrible at elections....full stop. No conspiracy.
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So wait ... is she incompetent, or is she the mastermind of a huge conspiracy to rig elections in favor of Democrats all while under the eye of (largely) Republican state officials?
Can't have it both ways, guys.
Also, you're wrong about the non-citizen vote thing.
Didn't the judge rule against her only two days ago because there is no watchful eye? That's the point, things done without canvassing boards or the overwatch you are stating. At least the way I read it.
I don't think I am wrong about the non-citizen thing, this comes from Miami Herald reporter Martin Vassolo says "Brenda Snipes says she recommends the canvassing board ACCEPT the mixed batch of 205 provisional ballots, including at least 20 illegal votes." Nov. 10th
https://twitter.com/martindvassolo/status/1061290178298425344
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You point out something that is 100% fact. Conspiracy theories come up, because people are unwilling or unable to simply look at data and facts and make a logical conclusion, but rather immediately craft a scenario that benefits their pre-held beliefs.
The votes are coming up 80-90% benefiting one side, because they are coming from districts that vote 80% democratic. It is exactly what is expected based on the underlying data and facts.
Which is why the question comes up why is it those districts where votes are found? Can you see why the conspiracy theories come up? If Beto was winning Texas right now, and Cruz votes were found by the thousands 48 to 72 hours after the election and those votes were 88% for him, how would our side react? Say those votes all magically happened to be in heavy GOP areas.
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Which is why the question comes up why is it those districts where votes are found? Can you see why the conspiracy theories come up? If Beto was winning Texas right now, and Cruz votes were found by the thousands 48 to 72 hours after the election and those votes were 88% for him, how would our side react? Say those votes all magically happened to be in heavy GOP areas.
First, there is no "our side". Quit that, it's ridiculous.
Second, there are simple and obvious reasons for why those districts tend to have more problems. It has to do with demographics, funding, tendency to have mail in votes, district infrastructure (again funding) and others. In Broward county they also had more threats to deal with regarding cybersecurity, as they and their voting system has been targeted by Russian hackers.
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Didn't the judge rule against her only two days ago because there is no watchful eye? That's the point, things done without canvassing boards or the overwatch you are stating. At least the way I read it.
I don't think I am wrong about the non-citizen thing, this comes from Miami Herald reporter Martin Vassolo says "Brenda Snipes says she recommends the canvassing board ACCEPT the mixed batch of 205 provisional ballots, including at least 20 illegal votes." Nov. 10th
https://twitter.com/martindvassolo/status/1061290178298425344
You're misinterpreting what's happening with those ballots. Because Snipes (or someone in her charge) is a dope who mixed a small number of illegal ballots with the other provisionals, and because the state refused to give her office time to separate them, she submitted them all in order to meet the deadline. Her thinking being not - as you claim - "Let's count these non-citizen ballots," but rather, "Let's not throw out almost 185 potentially valid ballots because of 20 invalid ballots." In the unlikely event the count is such that those 20 ballots actually matter, there will be plenty of time after the fact to litigate that.
Make sense? This is a mess of Snipes' creating, to be sure, but it's not as you and the likes of Bretbart claim.
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You're misinterpreting what's happening with those ballots. Because Snipes (or someone in her charge) is a dope who mixed a small number of illegal ballots with the other provisionals, and because the state refused to give her office time to separate them, she submitted them all in order to meet the deadline. Her thinking being not - as you claim - "Let's count these non-citizen ballots," but rather, "Let's not throw out almost 185 potentially valid ballots because of 20 invalid ballots." In the unlikely event the count is such that those 20 ballots actually matter, there will be plenty of time after the fact to litigate that.
Make sense? This is a mess of Snipes' creating, to be sure, but it's not as you and the likes of Bretbart claim.
Miami Herald is not Breitbart. I understand your point, but what is to stop any election official then to put a bunch of votes in that are are from non citizens and then claim that it isn't worth taking them out because it would jeopardize other legitimate votes? Those 20 plus votes also are not legitimate. Right now attorneys for Nelson are fighting to keep them in, which again is why the conspiracy theories come up. A document was shown today on the news of the attorneys arguing to keep those votes in.
Incompetence ends up hurting a candidate, does it not?
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Miami Herald is not Breitbart. I understand your point, but what is stop any election official then to put a bunch of votes in that are are from non citizens and then claim that it isn't worth taking them out because it would jeopardize other legitimate votes? Those 20 plus votes also are not legitimate. Right now attorneys for Nelson are fighting to keep them in, which again is why the conspiracy theories come up. A document was shown today on the news of the attorneys arguing to keep those votes in.
Incompetence ends up hurting a candidate, does it not?
Incompetence hurt everyone. But not as much as attributing incompetence to conspiracy.
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Incompetence hurt everyone. But not as much as attributing incompetence to conspiracy.
When it happens over and over and over in the same place and benefits the same party each time, I'm guessing you will continue to receive conspiracy theories. At some point when some incompetence become practice? Not a good look, again, for Broward and Palm counties. A history of this.
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Miami Herald is not Breitbart. I understand your point, but what is stop any election official then to put a bunch of votes in that are are from non citizens and then claim that it isn't worth taking them out because it would jeopardize other legitimate votes? Those 20 plus votes also are not legitimate. Right now attorneys for Nelson are fighting to keep them in, which again is why the conspiracy theories come up. A document was shown today on the news of the attorneys arguing to keep those votes in.
Incompetence ends up hurting a candidate, does it not?
The Miami Herald is not claiming that this is some conspiracy to rig the election.
Again, in the exceptionally unlikely event that the election is decided by < 20 votes, the Scott campaign has a strong case to seek a re-examination of those 20 ballots. Until such time, those 20 ballots are meaningless.
On the other hand, if excluding those 20 ballots means also excluding as many as 185 valid ballots, you've just stripped 185 people of one of their most important rights. That is meaningful.
Seems like you'd rather disenfranchise 185 voters than deal with the hassle of excluding 20 later. Why?
FWIW, let's be honest here, the Scott campaign is far more worried about those 185 ballots than the 20. The 20 - which ultimately will be tossed out if they make a difference - is just a convenient excuse to not count the 185.
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When it happens over and over and over in the same place and benefits the same party each time, I'm guessing you will continue to receive conspiracy theories. At some point when some incompetence become practice? Not a good look, again, for Broward and Palm counties. A history of this.
Please stop defending conspiracy theories. It makes you sound like a loon.
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When it happens over and over and over in the same place and benefits the same party each time, I'm guessing you will continue to receive conspiracy theories. At some point when some incompetence become practice? Not a good look, again, for Broward and Palm counties. A history of this.
Surprised you aren't talking about Wisconsin in similar fashion. The votes were found and counted sooner, but was the Milwaukee situation that different?
I watched the results come in as Evers' big lead dwindled throughout the night until Walker took the lead. Once Walker took the lead and Milwaukee supposedly had 99% of votes counted, it looked over. Then they announced there were 45,000 uncounted absentee ballots from Milwaukee County. I knew Evers would win at that point.
Of course, the greatest irony is not only did it give Evers the margin of victory, but also enough of a margin that Walker couldn't call for a recount because of a law he signed last year preventing recalls with a margin over 1%.
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Incompetence ends up hurting a candidate, does it not?
Trump got elected, so no.
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There are still ballots being counted in states all over the country.
The fact that some races are really close does not change that fact.
It is no indication of whether these counts are corrupt or not. None!
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The election system is the way it is because both parties want it to be f'ed up. They want the uncertainty and confusion because it allows them to spin these conspiracies and shift focus for bad candidates or bad operations. The Russian hacking thing is also a further red herring, you could easily create an electronic voting system that wasn't hackable but then we might have less chaos and spend money in the right places instead of the wrong places. C'est la vie I guess
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Provisional ballots are allowed because there is no remedy for someone being improperly barred from voting. If, say, the election judge screws up, the disenfranchised person can't simply come back a few days later and try again. That right to vote in that election is denied forever. So they cast a ballot that remains in a sort of limbo until his or her eligibility can be determined.
How anyone would find this unusual or unreasonable, much less inconceivable, is beyond me.
Here's why. The system of registration in the State of Florida is clear. You register by "X" date. You bring an ID to the polling place. You vote.
I'm not sure what's complicated about that. If one restricts provisional ballots to persons who do not show up on the voter registration rolls who should be there, OK. You should have about five ballots per precinct. Even as tight as the Florida races are (and there is a third one, Agricultural Commissioner, that's also ridiculously close), there should not be many provisional ballots.
Look, if Miami-Dade can get it done on time and correctly and our little bitty county can manage, Floridians have to wonder about Broward and Palm Beach Counties. Keep in mind the hanging chads in 2000 came from, gee, Palm Beach County.
What scares me the most is the possibility that the current results could be reversed come next week, or the week after. If that happens, this state will be ungovernable The fear I have is that the bitterness and anger over President Trump will be a minor tantrum compared to what will happen down here. I know things were close and both Senator Nelson and Candidate Gillum have legitimate concerns, but at some point one has to have confidence in the electoral system. Changing the results two weeks afterward is going to have huge ramifications for the next four and six years.
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Here's why. The system of registration in the State of Florida is clear. You register by "X" date. You bring an ID to the polling place. You vote.
Except the people who run elections are human beings who make mistakes. The provisional ballot process is in place to account for those mistakes. Would you be fine with losing your right to vote because some clerical error led to you being removed from the voter rolls? I suspect not.
And no, there aren't a lot of provisional ballots. In the 2016 election in Florida, there were a little less than 11,000 provisional ballots - out of 9.6 million in all. That's about 1/9th of 1 percent.
What scares me the most is the possibility that the current results could be reversed come next week, or the week after. If that happens, this state will be ungovernable The fear I have is that the bitterness and anger over President Trump will be a minor tantrum compared to what will happen down here. I know things were close and both Senator Nelson and Candidate Gillum have legitimate concerns, but at some point one has to have confidence in the electoral system. Changing the results two weeks afterward is going to have huge ramifications for the next four and six years.
No results are changing, though. The results aren't final when CNN or the AP declares a winner, or when the counting is done on election night, or when one side declares victory. The results are final when all the valid ballots have been counted, whatever legal recounts are needed have been completed and the canvassing process is complete. This typically is done 10-14 days after election day.
How does one have faith in an electoral system that says "We won't count all the legally cast ballots because we're in a hurry"?
And, no, Florida isn't going to descend into ungovernable chaos because of a close election.
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Except the people who run elections are human beings who make mistakes. The provisional ballot process is in place to account for those mistakes. Would you be fine with losing your right to vote because some clerical error led to you being removed from the voter rolls? I suspect not.
And no, there aren't a lot of provisional ballots. In the 2016 election in Florida, there were a little less than 11,000 provisional ballots - out of 9.6 million in all. That's about 1/9th of 1 percent.
No results are changing, though. The results aren't final when CNN or the AP declares a winner, or when the counting is done on election night, or when one side declares victory. The results are final when all the valid ballots have been counted, whatever legal recounts are needed have been completed and the canvassing process is complete. This typically is done 10-14 days after election day.
How does one have faith in an electoral system that says "We won't count all the legally cast ballots because we're in a hurry"?
And, no, Florida isn't going to descend into ungovernable chaos because of a close election.
Way too much logic and reason here
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And, no, Florida isn't going to descend into ungovernable chaos because of a close election.
No, I'm pretty sure Florida is already in a state of ungovernable chaos and will continue to be so, no matter how the results come out. That state is just messed up. Really like to let Scott Pruitt institute fracking plans right along the northern Florida border and just let it quake off into the sea.
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No, I'm pretty sure Florida is already in a state of ungovernable chaos and will continue to be so, no matter how the results come out. That state is just messed up. Really like to let Scott Pruitt institute fracking plans right along the northern Florida border and just let it quake off into the sea.
Bigotry.
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Bigotry.
Not sure why you quoted me there. Doesn't really connect to my comment at all.
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I've been there when the doors are locked and the machines are impounded.
My only recommendation to improve the process is to have an age limit for poll workers.
The police are present, only authorised people are allowed inside the polling building, lots of checks and balances.
Representatives of both major parties are presnt and representatives of anyone else running for office may be present. There are computer runs, paper tapes provided to those wishing them.
Then the phones are used to phone in the results to county headquarters of the parties, news outlets, etc. Ah, an opportunity for a mistake.
I have also been present, years ago, where paper ballots were used for a school board election. The poor old poll worker had a tremendous problem getting the numbers and names correct. They could not get the books to balance, and it was "only" a school board election. Number of votes cast did not match the results, ah the undercount. The names of the candidates were similar and the hearing of the poll workers suspect, oh well.
Then we have the subject of the election judge or judges and the pro bono lawyers running around the county putting out fires, the broken machines, the blown fuses, the illegal electioneering at the polling place, moving of polling places (fire houses, town halls, schools), etc..
That is all followed by the knownothing partisans bickering.
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No results are changing, though. The results aren't final when CNN or the AP declares a winner, or when the counting is done on election night, or when one side declares victory. The results are final when all the valid ballots have been counted, whatever legal recounts are needed have been completed and the canvassing process is complete. This typically is done 10-14 days after election day.
How does one have faith in an electoral system that says "We won't count all the legally cast ballots because we're in a hurry"?
And, no, Florida isn't going to descend into ungovernable chaos because of a close election.
Right on, our elections should not be determened by news organizations. Count all the votes, period.
It ain't over until the last vote is counted and if necessary recounted. What place do politicians or political hacks have in our voting process? It is only the ignorant news media who creates the controversy.
This year I voted absentee, I know my vote was counted fairly, I know someone who does the counting. Representatives from each party do the counting and nobody is suggesting that we simply don't count votes.
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Here's some encouraging stuff about young Americans getting out the vote:
https://wtop.com/national/2018/11/the-other-2018-midterm-wave-a-historic-10-point-jump-in-turnout-among-young-people/
Cliff Notes ...
++ Voter turnout among 18 to 29-year-olds in the 2018 midterm elections was 31 percent, the highest observed since 1994.
++ It’s also a major increase from turnout in the 2014 midterms, which was 21 percent.
++ "Young people should be feeling powerful and hopeful that they can in fact exercise their votes to affect American politics."
++ The proportion of young people who joined protests and marches tripled since the fall of 2016, from 5 percent to 15 percent. Participation was especially high among young people who are registered as Democrats.
++ In 2016, about 26 percent of young people said they were paying at least some attention to the November elections. This fall, the proportion of youth who reported that they were paying attention to the midterm races rose to 46 percent.
++ Political involvement in this generation is far above the levels we usually see among youth, especially in midterm election cycles. In fact, almost 3 out of 4 youth – 72 percent – said they believe that dramatic change could occur in this country if people banded together.
++ About 67 percent of young people supported Democratic House candidates, compared to just 32 percent for Republican candidates. This 35-point gap is even larger than their preference toward Democrats in 2008, when President Barack Obama was first elected.
++ This preference no doubt helped some Democratic candidates in states such as Wisconsin, Montana and Nevada. For example, Sen. Jon Tester of Montana won his reelection by a narrow margin of less than 6,000 votes. Young Montanans, by favoring him by 67 percent to 28 percent, gave him a relative vote advantage of over 25,000 votes. If young Montanans voted like older Montanans did on Tuesday, Montana would have a Republican Senator today.
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It is finally the end of wedge issue politics.
It has been 40 years since the government is the problem mentality started.
The kids see that good government is the solution.
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It is finally the end of wedge issue politics.
It has been 40 years since the government is the problem mentality started.
The kids see that good government is the solution.
Could you site an example of the bolded?
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Not sure why you quoted me there. Doesn't really connect to my comment at all.
Hating groups of people because of race, religion or geography seems like bigotry to me.
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Hating groups of people because of race, religion or geography seems like bigotry to me.
Yes, let's make"Floridian" a protected class. The ongoing persecution of the Sunshine State, as self-inflicted as it may be, must end now.
*bookmarking this post for the next time someone here pokes fun at Illinois.
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Hating groups of people because of race, religion or geography seems like bigotry to me.
Not sure how pointing out Florida's state of constant political chaos is "hating groups of people because of...geography".
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Hating groups of people because of race, religion or geography seems like bigotry to me.
You don't think brewski was joking? Or do you really think he was serious about "letting Scott Pruitt institute fracking plans right along the northern Florida border and just let it quake off into the sea"?
I mean, Pruitt isn't even around any more. He had to go after stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from U.S. taxpayers -- not until after his boss spent months and months defending him, of course, but still.
Plus, I'd miss orange juice, tupelo honey and D-Wade. And having the Tampa Bay Bucs to beat up on.
C'mon, Lenny ... aren't you one of the folks who recoils at the PC police and about folks taking themselves too seriously?
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You don't think brewski was joking? Or do you really think he was serious about "letting Scott Pruitt institute fracking plans right along the northern Florida border and just let it quake off into the sea"?
Definitely joking. When we visit my parents in Altoona, we usually drive. If Pruitt sent his fracking team to the panhandle they'd either have to build a bridge or we'd have to fly, which would mean leaving the dogs at home. My wife might be able to leave the daughter at home for 7-10 days, but not the dogs.
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Not sure how pointing out Florida's state of constant political chaos is "hating groups of people because of...geography".
Apologies, Brew. I was unaware that you were merely commenting on the chaos regularly seen in Florida at election time.
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You don't think brewski was joking? Or do you really think he was serious about "letting Scott Pruitt institute fracking plans right along the northern Florida border and just let it quake off into the sea"?
I mean, Pruitt isn't even around any more. He had to go after stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars from U.S. taxpayers -- not until after his boss spent months and months defending him, of course, but still.
Plus, I'd miss orange juice, tupelo honey and D-Wade. And having the Tampa Bay Bucs to beat up on.
C'mon, Lenny ... aren't you one of the folks who recoils at the PC police and about folks taking themselves too seriously?
Apologized to Brew for misunderstanding, but I still don't think his post was very funny - but I don't get yuks from the "California slides into the ocean" jokes either. Guess I'm officially a grumpy old man.
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The Miami Herald is not claiming that this is some conspiracy to rig the election.
Again, in the exceptionally unlikely event that the election is decided by < 20 votes, the Scott campaign has a strong case to seek a re-examination of those 20 ballots. Until such time, those 20 ballots are meaningless.
On the other hand, if excluding those 20 ballots means also excluding as many as 185 valid ballots, you've just stripped 185 people of one of their most important rights. That is meaningful.
Seems like you'd rather disenfranchise 185 voters than deal with the hassle of excluding 20 later. Why?
FWIW, let's be honest here, the Scott campaign is far more worried about those 185 ballots than the 20. The 20 - which ultimately will be tossed out if they make a difference - is just a convenient excuse to not count the 185.
I did not claim the Herald is saying that. I said the Herald correctly pointed out that at least 20 votes by non-Citizens were being argued by Nelson's attorneys to be kept in. Snipes already made such argument. I find that wrong.
What you are arguing is a non-citizen's vote is more important than a citizen's vote. I fundamentally disagree with you. All it would take is for a corrupt official to each election mix in illegal votes with other provisional ones, legit or not, and claim what you are claiming. Looking at Snipes' background, perhaps that is what she did.
You may be right about the 185 votes and Mr. Scott's worries, but I'm old enough to remember when Americans voted in American elections for a reason, because they are Americans and have the right to do so. For the same reason I am not allowed to go to Canada and vote in Canadian elections, or Germany, etc.
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Not sure how pointing out Florida's state of constant political chaos is "hating groups of people because of...geography".
Florida's state of constant political chaos is due to two things. The first is that, unlike Illinois, California, New York or Texas, we have about an equal amount of Republicans and Democrats. That results in lively debates, lively races and votes that matter, regardless of party!
The second is there are a lot of conflicting interests and issues in our state. People have differing opinions on what to do about them. For example, in last week's election, one of the biggest issues in the state was environmental pollution. Seems as though the fertilizers used in Florida agriculture seep, flow or otherwise enter into Lake Okachobee in the center of the state. When the lake gets too high, the floodgates are opened and the nitrogen/nutrients rich water flow east in the St. Lucie River until they hit the Indian River Lagoon and the Atlantic Ocean, where they combine with sunlight and salt water to induce green slime algae. Florida agriculture wants to keep on fertilizing. Florida tourism thinks not, fearing the algae and the related red tide harm Florida tourism.
Our state is growing like a weed because it's business friendly, has a great climate and has so many constitutional protections against tax increases that every pensioner in America likes the idea of being here. Doesn't matter if you are Democrat or Republican, if you live in the eastern 60 percent of the United States, Florida is a very attractive destination.
Finally, for Brother Pakuni, I make fun of Florida almost as much as I make fun of my other "home" state, Illinois. Remember, we're the state that brought you professional alligator wrestling (had to have something to do after consuming a 12 pack of Busch Light).
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Florida's state of constant political chaos is due to two things. The first is that, unlike Illinois, California, New York or Texas, we have about an equal amount of Republicans and Democrats. That results in lively debates, lively races and votes that matter, regardless of party!
The second is there are a lot of conflicting interests and issues in our state. People have differing opinions on what to do about them. For example, in last week's election, one of the biggest issues in the state was environmental pollution. Seems as though the fertilizers used in Florida agriculture seep, flow or otherwise enter into Lake Okachobee in the center of the state. When the lake gets too high, the floodgates are opened and the nitrogen/nutrients rich water flow east in the St. Lucie River until they hit the Indian River Lagoon and the Atlantic Ocean, where they combine with sunlight and salt water to induce green slime algae. Florida agriculture wants to keep on fertilizing. Florida tourism thinks not, fearing the algae and the related red tide harm Florida tourism.
Our state is growing like a weed because it's business friendly, has a great climate and has so many constitutional protections against tax increases that every pensioner in America likes the idea of being here. Doesn't matter if you are Democrat or Republican, if you live in the eastern 60 percent of the United States, Florida is a very attractive destination.
Finally, for Brother Pakuni, I make fun of Florida almost as much as I make fun of my other "home" state, Illinois. Remember, we're the state that brought you professional alligator wrestling (had to have something to do after consuming a 12 pack of Busch Light).
Not "EVERY" Amercan on a pension wants to liver on Florida. People obsessed with taxes or unhappy with their life move to Florida. I prefer to live among a younger better educated demographic. Quality of life is more important to me than saving a few dollars on my taxes and living with fast food restaurants, home schooling, huricanes, Florida weather, Bermuda grass, alligators, bugs, angry old white guys, and southerners.
Hay, to each his/her own. Yes, many retirees move south, but a supriseing number then move back or relocate to be with their grandchildren. On my visits to Florida I find that it is over crowded with too many lonley old people.
On topic: one of America's greatest problems and strengths is our diversification. Japan, China, Italy, Germany, most of the world, does not have to deal with diversification of cultures. In Italy for example we have the children, parents and grandparents living together. We/they have one culture, at least one in the north and and another in the south south.
So the problem is not simply nitrogen in the soil, or old folks needing V.A. hospitals, but a clash of too many cultures. Cuban, Haitians, old northerners, native Floridians, and many retired military all from different cultures with different values, needs, and interests.
That is a lot for the political parties to deal with, the result is chaos.
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FWIW, let's be honest here, the Scott campaign is far more worried about those 185 ballots than the 20. The 20 - which ultimately will be tossed out if they make a difference - is just a convenient excuse to not count the 185.
Let's take it a step further, do you think the 20 ballots help Scott? I would guess zero of the 20 help him, maybe 30% of the 185 do. He is harmed either way, as are those who have their legal votes nullified by non-citizens.
Separately, Miami Herald updated an article yesterday afternoon. Miami-Dade, which is the largest county in the state, already is halfway through its recount. Broward, still hasn't started. ?-(
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Let's say Gillum and Nelson had leads of less than 0.5%.
I'm sure that Tiny would still be saying election night results should stand, and that DeSantis and Scott would still be saying a recount is unnecessary.
Because they are all about the integrity of the system and not about themselves at all.
Scott's own secretary of state, the one he appointed, says there is zero signs of fraud. But Tiny "knows" there is, which is why he has presented so much evidence.
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This is why we can't have nice things.