MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on October 08, 2018, 05:04:05 PM
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Since people were posting their minute allocations in the redshirt thread anyway, figure its time to get the annual minutes thread going.
Here's my rough estimate:
1: Joe 22, Markus 18
2: Markus 9, Greg 18, Sacar 13
3: Sam 10, Brendan 18, Sacar 7, Cain 5
4: Ed 22, Sam 18
5: Matt 15, Joey 15, Theo 10
Sam 28
Markus 27
Ed 22
Joe 22
Sacar 20
Brendan 18
Greg 18
Joey 15
Matt 15
Theo 10
Cain 5
Eke Garbage Time
So. Much. Depth. I love it. Realistically, I can't see an 11 man rotation and even a 10 man rotation seems unlikely once conference play hits. It could be that we see different players on different night depending on who is playing well.
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Did Chartty die?
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OHHHHHH I've been trolled. I thought you wanted Joey at the 1. LOL
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Sam 30
Markus 27
Chartouney 24
Joey 22
Sacar 20
Ed 19
Jamal 14
Greg 14
Bailey 12
Theo 12
Matt 8
Eke Garbage Time
We'll go to OT a couple times.
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Since people were posting their minute allocations in the redshirt thread anyway, figure its time to get the annual minutes thread going.
Here's my rough estimate:
1: Joe 22, Markus 18
2: Markus 9, Greg 18, Sacar 13
3: Sam 10, Brendan 18, Sacar 7, Cain 5
4: Ed 22, Sam 18
5: Matt 15, Joey 15, Theo 10
Sam 28
Markus 27
Ed 22
Joe 22
Sacar 20
Brendan 18
Greg 18
Joey 15
Matt 15
Theo 10
Cain 5
Eke Garbage Time
So. Much. Depth. I love it. Realistically, I can't see an 11 man rotation and even a 10 man rotation seems unlikely once conference play hits. It could be that we see different players on different night depending on who is playing well.
Why so much Jamal hate? The kid is an extremely talented player who played very well last year. We need guys like him to compete at the highest level.
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My opinion (copied from redshirt thread):
PG: Chartouney (25), Markus (10), Greg (5)
SG: Markus (20), Sacar (15), Cain (5)
SF: Sam (25), Cain (10), Bailey (5)
PF: Morrow (25), Sam (5), Joey (5), Bailey (5)
C: John (15), Heldt (15), Joey (10)
Eke: Garbage time only
Totals:
Markus: 30
Sam: 30
Morrow: 25
Chartouney: 25
Sacar: 15
Theo: 15
Heldt: 15
Joey: 15
Cain: 15
Bailey: 10
Greg: 5
Ike: Garbage time only
Going to be tough for all of Cain, Bailey and Greg to find minutes. And honestly, I think 30 minutes for both Markus and Sam is a low estimate. Sure, we'll have the depth to let them rest more in cupcakes, and not super competitive games, but those guys are playing big minutes in the big contests.
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Why so much Jamal hate? The kid is an extremely talented player who played very well last year. We need guys like him to compete at the highest level.
Again, I’d love to see your minutes allocation TW. Not sure how exactly you see big minutes for Greg and Cain on this roster (assuming everyone is healthy and no redshirts).
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Since people were posting their minute allocations in the redshirt thread anyway, figure its time to get the annual minutes thread going.
Here's my rough estimate:
1: Joe 22, Markus 18
2: Markus 9, Greg 18, Sacar 13
3: Sam 10, Brendan 18, Sacar 7, Cain 5
4: Ed 22, Sam 18
5: Matt 15, Joey 15, Theo 10
Sam 28
Markus 27
Ed 22
Joe 22
Sacar 20
Brendan 18
Greg 18
Joey 15
Matt 15
Theo 10
Cain 5
Eke Garbage Time
So. Much. Depth. I love it. Realistically, I can't see an 11 man rotation and even a 10 man rotation seems unlikely once conference play hits. It could be that we see different players on different night depending on who is playing well.
Are these your average minutes for the season? Non con/con/tourney?
Sam will schedule to play more than 28 min nightly.
Markus will schedule to play more than 27 min. Nightly.
Sam/MH will have bad nights/foul out/injury to bring your average down......but they will play more than you project.
BB will not average 18 min/game for the season.
Joey will not play all of his minutes exclusively at the 5. I believe there are bigger plans than a “small lineup”.
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Since people were posting their minute allocations in the redshirt thread anyway, figure its time to get the annual minutes thread going.
Here's my rough estimate:
1: Joe 22, Markus 18
2: Markus 9, Greg 18, Sacar 13
3: Sam 10, Brendan 18, Sacar 7, Cain 5
4: Ed 22, Sam 18
5: Matt 15, Joey 15, Theo 10
Sam 28
Markus 27
Ed 22
Joe 22
Sacar 20
Brendan 18
Greg 18
Joey 15
Matt 15
Theo 10
Cain 5
Eke Garbage Time
So. Much. Depth. I love it. Realistically, I can't see an 11 man rotation and even a 10 man rotation seems unlikely once conference play hits. It could be that we see different players on different night depending on who is playing well.
If Cain gets 5 minutes a game, my gut says he transfers. I get the redshirt idea around him, yet it doesn't make sense from the perspective that he is one of our top 7-8 players currently, and you don't take his talent off this team (or any MU team), next year or the year after.
My view - redshirt him this year, he's highly likely to at best play 2 more seasons at MU. Can't see him getting to a 5th year with his skill set/arc, and his being "young" for his class.
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Any thoughts that Joey might not be getting the minutes we are projecting? He's coming off an injury. He won't have the experience like Cain. Maybe he gets about 10 per game and Cain gets more.
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Why so much Jamal hate? The kid is an extremely talented player who played very well last year. We need guys like him to compete at the highest level.
Where are you getting hate from? I just wrote an article where I talked about how Cain has the most NBA potential of anyone on the team.
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Are these your average minutes for the season? Non con/con/tourney?
Sam will schedule to play more than 28 min nightly.
Markus will schedule to play more than 27 min. Nightly.
Sam/MH will have bad nights/foul out/injury to bring your average down......but they will play more than you project.
BB will not average 18 min/game for the season.
Joey will not play all of his minutes exclusively at the 5. I believe there are bigger plans than a “small lineup”.
I disagree on Sam/Markus, in Wojo's one team with depth no one averaged more than 28 minutes a game. I think Wojo goes back to that again.
I've only heard great things about Bailey. I'm very optimistic about him. Could be wrong.
Joey is the third biggest guy on the team, no small ball necessary.
Why not share your guesses?
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I disagree on Sam/Markus, in Wojo's one team with depth no one averaged more than 28 minutes a game. I think Wojo goes back to that again.
I've only heard great things about Bailey. I'm very optimistic about him. Could be wrong.
Joey is the third biggest guy on the team, no small ball necessary.
Why not share your guesses?
Disagreeing on hypotheticals.....exactly.
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Markus: 28
Sam: 28
Morrow: 25
Chartouney: 25
Bailey: 20
Sacar: 20
Cain: 20
Theo: 15
Joey: 15
Heldt: 4
Greg: RS
Ike: Garbage time only
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My best guess would be this:
PG: Joe (20), Markus (20)
SG: Markus (10), Sacar (20), Greg (10)
SF: Sam (10), Jamal (15), Brendan (15)
PF: Ed (15), Sam (15), Joey (10)
C: Theo (15), Matt (15), Ed (10)
Ike - As they can fit him in. He will get more time once Heldt graduates. We'll need him next year so I hope he gets plenty of garbage minutes and his back heals up.
I could see Greg getting more on any given night. I could also see Joey getting more, but he's coming off an injury and may be a bit raw. Plus we are just so deep. We will find out! I don't think anyone averages more than 30. That would make no sense to me even with how good Markus & Sam are. Anyway, an argument could be made for any of those 11 outside of Ike for why they should get more or less time.
People will slump, injuries/illness will happen. I think on most nights it will be closer to a 10-man rotation, and it could very well be a round robin for who is the 11th man. It's certainly not obvious to me who on this team will regularly not get 10 minutes. Great problem to have. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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Where are you getting hate from? I just wrote an article where I talked about how Cain has the most NBA potential of anyone on the team.
You also just put him at 5 minutes per game.
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I’ll do mine later.
But Tamu: Cain with 5 total min per game? He’s gone at semester then.
Therealwrk: Heldt at 4 min per game? Yikes bikes.
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Sam 30
Markus 30
Ed 22
Joe 22
Sacar 16
Brendan 14
Greg 15
Joey 15
Matt 15
Cain 12
Theo 10
Eke Garbage Time
Gees when you put it down like this. Someone is gone at semester. Such a log jam at the 3-4.
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You also just put him at 5 minutes per game.
Why does that mean I hate him?
Who do you hate? I assume you agree that we won't be running an 11 man rotation. That means that Ike and someone else are going to be regulated to benchwarming duties. Do you hate Greg? Theo? Brendan? Joey? Matt? Sacar?
Personally, Jamal makes the most sense to me. I think Greg/Sacar are better than he is at the moment, I've only heard glowing reviews about Bailey, I haven't heard as many glowing reviews about Joey but enough to think he cracks the rotation, and as trendy as positionless basketball is I think we are going to see at least 25 minutes a night of Matt/Theo at the 5. Jamal is the odd man out in this scenario due to depth at his position.
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I’ll do mine later.
But Tamu: Cain with 5 total min per game? He’s gone at semester then.
Therealwrk: Heldt at 4 min per game? Yikes bikes.
I can guarantee you that we won't be running an 11 man rotation. Ike and someone else will be riding the pine most of the season.
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I’ll do mine later.
But Tamu: Cain with 5 total min per game? He’s gone at semester then.
If Cain leaves at semester because he is getting only 5 mpg, well then good luck to him.
No coach should be giving players minutes just so they don't transfer.
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Due deez heer minutes vary if uron AT&T, Verizon, orr Sprint plans, hey?
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You also just put him at 5 minutes per game.
let's see how you'd handle it. You continue to make comments, but have yet to show how you'd get Greg and Cain big minutes.
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I disagree on Sam/Markus, in Wojo's one team with depth no one averaged more than 28 minutes a game. I think Wojo goes back to that again.
I've only heard great things about Bailey. I'm very optimistic about him. Could be wrong.
Joey is the third biggest guy on the team, no small ball necessary.
Why not share your guesses?
Wojo hasn't had guys of the same caliber as Markus and Sam. And while there may be games where they can play less than 30 minutes, I think once conference play rolls around, you'll see both of them playing over 30 every night. If you look at other top players in the conference (1st and 2nd team) in the last several years, these guys are typically averaging 30+. Unless Jay Wright is missing something by playing his NBA-caliber guys so much, I would expect Wojo to do the same this year with our top players. Gotta let the big dogs eat.
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If Cain leaves at semester because he is getting only 5 mpg, well then good luck to him.
No coach should be giving players minutes just so they don't transfer.
Kids transfer when they believe they are better than the players, playing in front of them. When their coach doesn't see their talent, they move on - like any rational person would.
Cain is a top 7-8 guy on this roster, possibly a Top 5. Huge difference maker on defensive end. Not a redshirt candidate - yet I also do get TAMU's point - and at one point felt it might make sense to redshirt him this season. But, if anyone is to redshirt, the best candidate would be Elliott.
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Kids transfer when they believe they are better than the players, playing in front of them. When their coach doesn't see their talent, they move on - like any rational person would.
Cain is a top 7-8 guy on this roster, possibly a Top 5. Huge difference maker on defensive end. Not a redshirt candidate - yet I also do get TAMU's point - and at one point felt it might make sense to redshirt him this season. But, if anyone is to redshirt, the best candidate would be Elliott.
I'm pretty sure Wojo has a good understanding of Cain's talent and where he fits on this team.
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Kids transfer when they believe they are better than the players, playing in front of them. When their coach doesn't see their talent, they move on - like any rational person would.
Cain is a top 7-8 guy on this roster, possibly a Top 5. Huge difference maker on defensive end. Not a redshirt candidate - yet I also do get TAMU's point - and at one point felt it might make sense to redshirt him this season. But, if anyone is to redshirt, the best candidate would be Elliott.
I'd argue far more kids transfer because they realize that they're in over their heads at a certain level and look to move down. Otherwise you'd see more guys transferring from the likes of Marquette to other high major schools (or even blue blood schools) and proving their worth there. Instead, obviously with a few exceptions, you typically see guys at a Marquette level transfer to a Toledo, Florida Gulf Coast, Liberty, etc. For every player that transfers to, and does well for, an Iowa State, there are about 10 that transfer to a Tennessee Tech.
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I think the general consensus on Bailey might be a little too optimistic, and I also think that Joey getting to be with the team for a good chunk of the year last year will really help him this year. I also just don't see a role for Greg given the seniority and talent above him at G. I think he's got a lot of potential, but he's going to have a hard time earning minutes on this roster.
PG) Joe - 25, Markus 15
SG) Markus - 15, Sacar - 20, Greg - 5
SF) Sam - 20, Brendan - 10, Jamal - 10
PF) Joey - 20, Sam - 10, Ed - 10
C ) Theo - 15, Ed - 15, Matt - 10
Totals come out to:
Markus - 30
Sam - 30
Joe - 25
Ed - 25
Sacar - 20
Joey - 20
Theo - 15
Brendan - 10
Jamal - 10
Heldt - 10
Greg - 5
I could see the C minutes flip between Matt and Ed, though. Since Ed is more of a traditional bruiser, his minutes may take more of a toll on him than the average guy.
The long story short here is that we should be able to match up with any team well. We have enough size inside to have a big rotation, enough talent on the perimeter to go small and fast, and there's enough depth with our "switchables" to fill any gaps in between. It will be nice to have lineups actually get to be more focused on the best defensive options rather than needing to keep certain guys on the floor just to put points on the board.
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I think the general consensus on Bailey might be a little too optimistic, and I also think that Joey getting to be with the team for a good chunk of the year last year will really help him this year. I also just don't see a role for Greg given the seniority and talent above him at G. I think he's got a lot of potential, but he's going to have a hard time earning minutes on this roster.
PG) Joe - 25, Markus 15
SG) Markus - 15, Sacar - 20, Greg - 5
SF) Sam - 20, Brendan - 10, Jamal - 10
PF) Joey - 20, Sam - 10, Ed - 10
C ) Theo - 15, Ed - 15, Matt - 10
Totals come out to:
Markus - 30
Sam - 30
Joe - 25
Ed - 25
Sacar - 20
Joey - 20
Theo - 15
Brendan - 10
Jamal - 10
Heldt - 10
Greg - 5
I could see the C minutes flip between Matt and Ed, though. Since Ed is more of a traditional bruiser, his minutes may take more of a toll on him than the average guy.
The long story short here is that we should be able to match up with any team well. We have enough size inside to have a big rotation, enough talent on the perimeter to go small and fast, and there's enough depth with our "switchables" to fill any gaps in between. It will be nice to have lineups actually get to be more focused on the best defensive options rather than needing to keep certain guys on the floor just to put points on the board.
Greg will play far more than 5 minutes.
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Greg will play far more than 5 minutes.
I think a big reason why he was able to earn minute last year was because of his defense. With this year's lineup, I don't see that being as big of a need. And I don't think he's as good offensively as our other guards or wings to warrant big minutes. I think he's a good player, good athlete, and good teammate; I just have a hard time seeing where he fits in with this group of guys.
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Does anyone else think that we might be overestimating JC's minutes a bit? I think he will be a good and important player, but maybe not in November and December. KR had a 6 game stretch from Nov-Dec where he shot 11-49, Carlino had a 5 game stretch in Nov where he shot 18-53. Obviously different players, different roles, different teams, but if JC struggles against I4 and in Brooklyn, he could get a shorter leash going forward, which would create an opportunity for the likes of Greg, and Sacar in G roles. I don't think a scenario where JC gets 20 mpg at point, and Markus and Greg each get 10 is unrealistic. Then if Greg can get the 5 mpg off the ball that many are predicting he'd end up with 15, which should be enough to keep him happy, even if it is less than last year.
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I'd argue far more kids transfer because they realize that they're in over their heads at a certain level and look to move down. Otherwise you'd see more guys transferring from the likes of Marquette to other high major schools (or even blue blood schools) and proving their worth there. Instead, obviously with a few exceptions, you typically see guys at a Marquette level transfer to a Toledo, Florida Gulf Coast, Liberty, etc. For every player that transfers to, and does well for, an Iowa State, there are about 10 that transfer to a Tennessee Tech.
True statement. Was speaking from the perspective of a kid like Cain (in the event he was gonna get 5 minutes per game this season), yet realize it came off as a blanket statement.
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The last time Wojo had depth was 2017. That team had three seniors with high expectations, and the player that led them in minutes was freshman Sam Hauser...with less than 27 minutes per game. With this kind of depth, I don't think anyone gets close to 30 mpg.
PG: Chartouny 24, Howard 10, Elliott 6
SG: Howard 16, Anim 14, Elliott 8, Bailey 2
SF: S. Hauser 20, Cain 12, Bailey 8
PF: E. Morrow 20, J. Hauser 10, S. Hauser 6, Cain 4
C: John 16, Heldt 15, J. Hauser 5, Eke 4
Totals
Sam Hauser 26
Markus Howard 26
Joseph Chartouny 24
Ed Morrow 20
Jamal Cain 16
Theo John 16
Matt Heldt 15
Joey Hauser 15
Sacar Anim 14
Greg Elliott 14
Brenden Bailey 10
Ike Eke 4
Lots of game-to-game fluctuation. Almost everyone will see 20 minute nights with some regularity, but also nights where they don't crack double digits. Lots of mixing and matching along with hockey style line changes.
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Markus - 27
Sam - 27
JC - 22
Ed - 20
Joey - 18
Sacar - 18
Matt - 18
Theo - 14
Jamal - 14
Greg - 12
Bailey - 10
Ike - Spot
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From what I've been told:
- Bailey has been our best player in practice all summer, to the point where people are beginning to think that he could START sooner than later. Like I've said for months, he's gonna be a huge part of what we do from game 1.
- It's looking like Theo should start this season: with Ed and Joey our first guys off the bench. I think people pegging Joey for 10 minutes/game only are crazy - just my two cents.
- Heldt is shaping up to get little to no clock. He's a mid-major player.
- Markus is fine, like we all assumed. Was already practicing yesterday.
- Greg's thumb is a real issue. We've discussed redshirts in another thread but I really think he's our best candidate. If he's willing to take the Sacar route, that would do him and the team a lot of good IMO.
Again, just passing along things I've been told by someone there every day of practice.
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The last time Wojo had depth was 2017. That team had three seniors with high expectations, and the player that led them in minutes was freshman Sam Hauser...with less than 27 minutes per game. With this kind of depth, I don't think anyone gets close to 30 mpg.
The 2017 team didn't have anyone anywhere nearly as talented and valuable as the 18-19 versions of Sam and Markus, though. We may have been deep then because talent was at parity, but the level of talent was lower. If Sam as a freshman logged 27 minutes a game, then improved as a sophomore, doesn't it sound a little backward to assume he'll play less this season?
You put the best 5 guys for the situation out there. And in most cases, that means you'll want Sam and Markus on the floor. They're just that good.
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From what I've been told:
- Bailey has been our best player in practice all summer, to the point where people are beginning to think that he could START sooner than later. Like I've said for months, he's gonna be a huge part of what we do from game 1.
- It's looking like Theo should start this season: with Ed and Joey our first guys off the bench. I think people pegging Joey for 10 minutes/game only are crazy - just my two cents.
- Heldt is shaping up to get little to no clock. He's a mid-major player.
- Markus is fine, like we all assumed. Was already practicing yesterday.
- Greg's thumb is a real issue. We've discussed redshirts in another thread but I really think he's our best candidate. If he's willing to take the Sacar route, that would do him and the team a lot of good IMO.
Again, just passing along things I've been told by someone there every day of practice.
Thank you.
Outside of Greg, this is all really good news. It somewhat surprises me with Heldt, who I admittedly like more than most here. But if he's getting passed up because others are doing so well, then that's fine by me.
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The 2017 team didn't have anyone anywhere nearly as talented and valuable as the 18-19 versions of Sam and Markus, though. We may have been deep then because talent was at parity, but the level of talent was lower. If Sam as a freshman logged 27 minutes a game, then improved as a sophomore, doesn't it sound a little backward to assume he'll play less this season?
You put the best 5 guys for the situation out there. And in most cases, that means you'll want Sam and Markus on the floor. They're just that good.
I think the 2017 team also didn't have bench options as good as Elliott, Anim, Cain, Joey Hauser, and Heldt. I could see that group coming for for 4 minute stretches to give the starters rest when we have a lead.
Maybe part of it is expectations. This team reminds me of 2014. Not 2014 Marquette, where we fell off the planet after being picked to win the league, but 2014 Villanova who went from 3 years of the bubble to a 2-seed and top-5 team.
Our starters are that good, but so is our bench. And with a bench as good as ours, the starters don't have to play 30+ minutes. They can get rest because the guys behind them are also very good.
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They should give the best players the most minutes
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PG: JC (24), M2N (8), GE (8)
2G: M2N (20), Sacar (8), Cain (6), GE (6)
SF: Sam (14), Cain (12), Bailey (8), Sacar (6)
PF: Sam (14), Joey (12), Morrow (8), Bailey (6)
C: Morrow (16), Theo (12), Heldt (8), Joey (4)
Totals:
Markus (28)
Sam (28)
Morrow (24)
Chartouny (24)
Cain (18)
Joey (16)
Sacar (14)
Elliott (14)
Bailey (14)
Theo (12)
Heldt (8)
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From what I've been told:
- Bailey has been our best player in practice all summer, to the point where people are beginning to think that he could START sooner than later. Like I've said for months, he's gonna be a huge part of what we do from game 1.
- It's looking like Theo should start this season: with Ed and Joey our first guys off the bench. I think people pegging Joey for 10 minutes/game only are crazy - just my two cents.
- Heldt is shaping up to get little to no clock. He's a mid-major player.
- Markus is fine, like we all assumed. Was already practicing yesterday.
- Greg's thumb is a real issue. We've discussed redshirts in another thread but I really think he's our best candidate. If he's willing to take the Sacar route, that would do him and the team a lot of good IMO.
Again, just passing along things I've been told by someone there every day of practice.
Adjusted under a GE redshirt scenario + information above
PG: JC (26), M2N (14)
2G: M2N (14), Bailey (10), Sacar (8), Cain (8)
SF: Sam (14), Cain (10), Bailey (10), Sacar (6)
PF: Sam (14), Joey (16), Morrow (8), Bailey (2)
C: Theo (18), Morrow (14), Heldt (4), Joey (4)
Totals:
Markus (28)
Sam (28)
Chartouny (26)
Morrow (22)
Bailey (22)
Joey (20)
Cain (18)
Theo (18)
Sacar (14)
Heldt (4)
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PG: JC (24), M2N (8), GE (8)
2G: M2N (20), Sacar (8), Cain (6), GE (6)
SF: Sam (14), Cain (12), Bailey (8), Sacar (6)
PF: Sam (14), Joey (12), Morrow (8), Bailey (6)
C: Morrow (16), Theo (12), Heldt (8), Joey (4)
Totals:
Markus (28)
Sam (28)
Morrow (24)
Chartouny (24)
Cain (18)
Joey (16)
Sacar (14)
Elliott (14)
Bailey (14)
Theo (12)
Heldt (8)
This is about the closest thing I've seen to a rotation that seems somewhat realistic and everyone gets minutes. I think Wojo will pay 12 deep early, and the rotation will get cut significantly in the big time games.
I think Theo for more than 12 minutes, but I could definitely see Morrow ending up at the 5 more and turning both Theo and Matt into spurt role players.
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PG: JC (24), M2N (8), GE (8)
2G: M2N (20), Sacar (8), Cain (6), GE (6)
SF: Sam (14), Cain (12), Bailey (8), Sacar (6)
PF: Sam (14), Joey (12), Morrow (8), Bailey (6)
C: Morrow (16), Theo (12), Heldt (8), Joey (4)
Totals:
Markus (28)
Sam (28)
Morrow (24)
Chartouny (24)
Cain (18)
Joey (16)
Sacar (14)
Elliott (14)
Bailey (14)
Theo (12)
Heldt (8)
I don't see any way that Matt and Theo only combine for 20 minutes.
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I don't see any way that Matt and Theo only combine for 20 minutes.
If Morrow plays 16 mpg at C and Joey plays 4 mpg as a stretch 5 in a death lineup, then they would almost certainly combine for 20 mpg in some mix. That's one way. It's simple math/process of elimination ;)
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I don't see any way that Matt and Theo only combine for 20 minutes.
I think its totally possible Matt barely plays by BE season. All depends on how Morrow fits into the team. If Morrow is basically forced to play the 5 because of the type of offense Wojo wants to run, I think its possible.
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Having the ability to run a small ball line-up should not and does not mean that you run it exclusively. Everybody loves to talk about Golden State when imagining small ball, but even they still played more than 25 mpg with a true center over the last two years. Ed and Joey will likely both see some time at the 5 this year, but Theo and Matt should still be combining for at least 25 mpg, if not more.
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From what I've been told:
- Bailey has been our best player in practice all summer, to the point where people are beginning to think that he could START sooner than later. Like I've said for months, he's gonna be a huge part of what we do from game 1.
- It's looking like Theo should start this season: with Ed and Joey our first guys off the bench. I think people pegging Joey for 10 minutes/game only are crazy - just my two cents.
- Heldt is shaping up to get little to no clock. He's a mid-major player.
- Markus is fine, like we all assumed. Was already practicing yesterday.
- Greg's thumb is a real issue. We've discussed redshirts in another thread but I really think he's our best candidate. If he's willing to take the Sacar route, that would do him and the team a lot of good IMO.
Again, just passing along things I've been told by someone there every day of practice.
It's little moments like this I miss BigDaddy and hate whomever it was (Heisenberg?) who ran him out of here.
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From what I've been told:
- Bailey has been our best player in practice all summer, to the point where people are beginning to think that he could START sooner than later. Like I've said for months, he's gonna be a huge part of what we do from game 1.
- It's looking like Theo should start this season: with Ed and Joey our first guys off the bench. I think people pegging Joey for 10 minutes/game only are crazy - just my two cents.
- Heldt is shaping up to get little to no clock. He's a mid-major player.
- Markus is fine, like we all assumed. Was already practicing yesterday.
- Greg's thumb is a real issue. We've discussed redshirts in another thread but I really think he's our best candidate. If he's willing to take the Sacar route, that would do him and the team a lot of good IMO.
Again, just passing along things I've been told by someone there every day of practice.
Heard similar things about BB. That's why I had Cain pegged as a possible redshirt because I think BB may eat some of his minutes.
I think Matt is going to get less minutes than last season and may not start, but I think its wishful thinking to say that we are going to be so good that all his minutes disappear. I think John and Heldt will get at least 25 minutes at the 5.
The bit about Greg is concerning. When I wrote the redshirt article, the last news we had gotten was that Greg had been pain free for months. If the thumb is still bothering him than that could change my thoughts on who should take a season off. I hope Greg is good to go, he was our best defender last season and I would hate to only go 2 deep at PG.
As always thanks for the scoops OnePost
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From what I've been told:
- Bailey has been our best player in practice all summer, to the point where people are beginning to think that he could START sooner than later. Like I've said for months, he's gonna be a huge part of what we do from game 1.
- It's looking like Theo should start this season: with Ed and Joey our first guys off the bench. I think people pegging Joey for 10 minutes/game only are crazy - just my two cents.
- Heldt is shaping up to get little to no clock. He's a mid-major player.
- Markus is fine, like we all assumed. Was already practicing yesterday.
- Greg's thumb is a real issue. We've discussed redshirts in another thread but I really think he's our best candidate. If he's willing to take the Sacar route, that would do him and the team a lot of good IMO.
Again, just passing along things I've been told by someone there every day of practice.
Problem with Greg doing a RS is that leaves us with only 2 true guards (Sacar being more of a wing forward)....?
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Problem with Greg doing a RS is that leaves us with only 2 true guards (Sacar being more of a wing forward)....?
Sacar and Cain would be more than capable at the 2 in stretches where Markus is playing 1 or sitting. Heck some were even suggesting bailey there at one point this summer
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Sacar and Cain would be more than capable at the 2 in stretches where Markus is playing 1 or sitting. Heck some were even suggesting bailey there at one point this summer
I think Bailey can absolutely play the 2.
The concern is more at 1. Joe and Markus should be fine most games but I would love to have a third at least capable of playing the 1. I can see a nightmare game where Markus gets three fouls before the second TV timeout and Joe gets hurt or is just gassed by halftime. Without Greg you probably have to have Sam bring the ball up.
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Heard similar things about BB. That's why I had Cain pegged as a possible redshirt because I think BB may eat some of his minutes.
I think Matt is going to get less minutes than last season and may not start, but I think its wishful thinking to say that we are going to be so good that all his minutes disappear. I think John and Heldt will get at least 25 minutes at the 5.
The bit about Greg is concerning. When I wrote the redshirt article, the last news we had gotten was that Greg had been pain free for months. If the thumb is still bothering him than that could change my thoughts on who should take a season off. I hope Greg is good to go, he was our best defender last season and I would hate to only go 2 deep at PG.
As always thanks for the scoops OnePost
I hope that Greg is alright and that his thumb improves to the point where he's a contributor this year.
The redshirt hypothetical was 100% my own opinion, nothing that was passed along, just to clarify. All I was told was that Greg's thumb has been a lingering issue.
I feel confident that between Sacar, Brendan, even Sam and Jamal in certain instances, we'd have some 2-guard depth. While I love what Greg brings, I do think from a class-staggering standpoint, from a 2018-2019 minute share standpoint, and for his own development, a Sacar-like redshirt could do him some good.
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I hope that Greg is alright and that his thumb improves to the point where he's a contributor this year.
The redshirt hypothetical was 100% my own opinion, nothing that was passed along, just to clarify. All I was told was that Greg's thumb has been a lingering issue.
I feel confident that between Sacar, Brendan, even Sam and Jamal in certain instances, we'd have some 2-guard depth. While I love what Greg brings, I do think from a class-staggering standpoint, from a 2018-2019 minute share standpoint, and for his own development, a Sacar-like redshirt could do him some good.
Elliot and Cain are like two peas in a pod. Hard to see a RS that would leave Greg w/o Jamal in his last season?
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Elliot and Cain are like two peas in a pod. Hard to see a RS that would leave Greg w/o Jamal in his last season?
Even if its due to his thumb?
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I know it's fun to try and dole out minutes, but I suspect reality will look quite different once actual play begins. What we really have here is luxury - as on any given night we could have one or more players with foul trouble. injury, illness or just a good old off night. We have luxury to rest our best players, who were more like marathon men last year. We can send Theo in to bang up people on the boards and not worry that we're f'd when he draws four fouls in the first half. Someone can be stupid, throw beers off their balcony and be suspended for a game. We can have a mid-year transfer (but please, no!) and not be worried that we have no backup for certain positions.
Minutes will vary from night to night, but the real concept here is that we can weather all of the above scenarios as well as some unimagined ones and still feel like we can field a solid team. That's what really matters.
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Even if its due to his thumb?
Well yeah ,if that is a real issue. Otherwise, nah.
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let's see how you'd handle it. You continue to make comments, but have yet to show how you'd get Greg and Cain big minutes.
I have outlined my minutes view in other threads. I will outline here again. I see the rotation being very similar to what we had in 2016-17. When Wojo and JJJ signed their armistice at the end of the prior season that indirectly led to the development of this rotational strategy. That is, the top players in practice will be the starters and in the rotation. We will have a 9-10 man rotation, based on practice performance, with substitutions coming at the TV timeouts and players with hot hands will stay in extra. If we get into severe foul trouble we may go 11 deep. At the end of each game we will have the two premium players, Markus and Sam in, plus the other 3 best performing players in that particular game. We ended up going to the tournament that year and it all worked very well.
The only guy who clearly won't get any meaningful minutes at this point will be Ike . There will always be guys with injuries etc. For example Greg apparently jammed the same thumb he hurt.
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I have outlined my minutes view in other threads. I will outline here again. I see the rotation being very similar to what we had in 2016-17. When Wojo and JJJ signed their armistice at the end of the prior season that indirectly led to the development of this rotational strategy. That is, the top players in practice will be the starters and in the rotation. We will have a 9-10 man rotation, based on practice performance, with substitutions coming at the TV timeouts and players with hot hands will stay in extra. If we get into severe foul trouble we may go 11 deep. At the end of each game we will have the two premium players, Markus and Sam in, plus the other 3 best performing players in that particular game. We ended up going to the tournament that year and it all worked very well.
The only guy who clearly won't get any meaningful minutes at this point will be Ike . There will always be guys with injuries etc. For example Greg apparently jammed the same thumb he hurt.
So assuming everyone is practicing well, who is #11?
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I have outlined my minutes view in other threads. I will outline here again.
You really haven't. This is an exercise for fun. Divide 200 minutes between 12 guys. No one will hold you to it when you're wrong (like we all always are).
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I’ll do mine later.
But Tamu: Cain with 5 total min per game? He’s gone at semester then.
Therealwrk: Heldt at 4 min per game? Yikes bikes.
FJM, More like Yikes Buycks!
I RSed GE becuase of some news I heard over the weekend. Same news included Heldt getting limited minutes as he's had almost no improvement (read, hit his ceiling). Same news included Bailey is an absolute monster and will be seeing a lot of minutes.
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FJM, More like Yikes Buycks!
I RSed GE becuase of some news I heard over the weekend. Same news included Heldt getting limited minutes as he's had almost no improvement (read, hit his ceiling). Same news included Bailey is an absolute monster and will be seeing a lot of minutes.
I wonder if Heldt is behind due to his injury.
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The concern is more at 1. Joe and Markus should be fine most games but I would love to have a third at least capable of playing the 1. I can see a nightmare game where Markus gets three fouls before the second TV timeout and Joe gets hurt or is just gassed by halftime. Without Greg you probably have to have Sam bring the ball up.
Brendan Antetokoumpo or Giannis Bailey at the 1, take your pick.
If the handles he displayed are for realz, Scoopers should have much fewer worries about the press break this year.
Wait, what am I talking about? It's Scoop!
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Hopefully my math is correct and the following precludes there will be plenty of minutes when there's not a true post on the court.... assuming Greg doesn't hit the court at all this year and IKE gets junk mins.
Post/Forward: Joey @ 10 Mins; Ed @ 10 mins; Matt H @ 10 mins; Theo @ 10 mins
Forward: Ed @ 15; Joey @ 5; Sam @ 20
Other Forward/Wing: Sam @ 10; Sacar @ 10; Cain @ 5; Brendan @ 15
Other Guard/Wing: Howard @ 15; Sacar @ 10; Cain @ 10; Brendan @ 5
Primary Ball Handler ( ::): Joe @ 25, Howard @ 15
Min totals by season's end -
Howard = 30
Sam = 30
Ed = 25
Joe = 25
Brendan = 20
Sacar = 20
Joey = 15
Cain = 15
Matt = 10
John = 10
Hot hands and defensive stoppers getting extra mins per games where they are smoke'n hot!!!
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Amending after the news about Greg.
1: Joe 24, Markus 16
2: Markus 12, Sacar 22, Brendan 6
3: Sam 11, Brendan 14, Jamal 15
4: Ed 23, Sam 17
5: Matt 15, Joey 15, Theo 10
Sam 28
Markus 28
Joe 24
Ed 23
Sacar 22
Brendan 20
Joey 15
Jamal 15
Matt 15
Theo 10
Eke Garbage Time
This might just be until Greg is healthy again, but it could be for the whole season. Think Greg is now the leading redshirt candidate if there is one.
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Amending after the news about Greg.
1: Joe 24, Markus 16
2: Markus 12, Sacar 22, Brendan 6
3: Sam 11, Brendan 14, Jamal 15
4: Ed 23, Sam 17
5: Matt 15, Joey 15, Theo 10
Sam 28
Markus 28
Joe 24
Ed 23
Sacar 22
Brendan 20
Joey 15
Jamal 15
Matt 15
Theo 10
Eke Garbage Time
This might just be until Greg is healthy again, but it could be for the whole season. Think Greg is now the leading redshirt candidate if there is one.
These numbers look good to me but switch Theo and Matt.
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These numbers look good to me but switch Theo and Matt.
I know that's the hope of many but I don't think it will happen. When's the last time two players at the same position switched spots on the depth chart after a year?
Maybe this is the year it happens because Matt missed a lot of the offseason, but I'm not so sure. Matt was the much better player last season.
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Amending after the news about Greg.
1: Joe 24, Markus 16
2: Markus 12, Sacar 22, Brendan 6
3: Sam 11, Brendan 14, Jamal 15
4: Ed 23, Sam 17
5: Matt 15, Joey 15, Theo 10
Sam 28
Markus 28
Joe 24
Ed 23
Sacar 22
Brendan 20
Joey 15
Jamal 15
Matt 15
Theo 10
Eke Garbage Time
This might just be until Greg is healthy again, but it could be for the whole season. Think Greg is now the leading redshirt candidate if there is one.
TAMU, I'm going to ask you to reconsider one thing at least. There is no chance in h*ll that the starting guard combo of Chartouny and Markus are seeing 12 minutes together a game. That's 28 minutes of a suboptimal combination. No chance. You have to up Joe's minutes and move Markus to more time at the 2 guard. Also, Theo is NOT playing 10 minutes a game.
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And just so you guys have me on record.....
Amending after the news about Greg.
1: Joe 28, Markus 12
2: Markus 18, Sacar 18, Brendan 4
3: Sam 17, Brendan 10, Jamal 13
4: Ed 22, Sam 11, Joey 7
5: Matt 15, Theo 18, Joey 7
Markus 30
Sam 28
Joe 28
Ed 22
Theo 18
Sacar 18
Matt 15
Brendan 14
Joey 14
Jamal 13
Eke Garbage Time
But I will agree with an assertion Mom made. Each and every game could be quite different. I'm envisioning Wojo having 'units' that enable him to match up and exploit different gameplans. Apart from the guard line where we can expect lots of Joe/Markus every night, he can ask guys to have maximum impact by doing what each of them individually does best. So some nights maybe Cain has a huge matchup advantage and plays a lot. Or Ed spends a night beating the snot out of some particular guy because that's what's necessary. Maybe there's some nights where Sammy is more necessary at the 3 than the 4. Stuff like that.
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But I will agree with an assertion Mom made. Each and every game could be quite different. I'm envisioning Wojo having 'units' that enable him to match up and exploit different gameplans. Apart from the guard line where we can expect lots of Joe/Markus every night, he can ask guys to have maximum impact by doing what each of them individually does best. So some nights maybe Cain has a huge matchup advantage and plays a lot. Or Ed spends a night beating the snot out of some particular guy because that's what's necessary. Maybe there's some nights where Sammy is more necessary at the 3 than the 4. Stuff like that.
most even dispersement of SOTGs ever?
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most even dispersement of SOTGs ever?
Good point. Makes sense.
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1: Joe 30, Markus 10
2: Markus 25, Sacar 10, Jamal 5
3: Sam 5, Jamal 10, Brendan 15, Sacar 10
4: Ed 10, Sam 20, Joey 10
5: Matt 10, Joey 10, Theo 15, Ed 5
Sam 25
Markus 35
Joe 30
Ed 15
Sacar 20
Brendan 15
Joey 20
Jamal 15
Matt 10
Theo 15
Eke Garbage Time
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Ed at 15 minutes? No way. Dude was one of the top 25 rebounders in the country two seasons ago. Also a better defender than anyone who was on the roster last season. If he's at 15 minutes a game he's either regressed or some other players have taken massive leaps.
I also would plan to be patient with Joey. Kid is talented but is still a freshman. I think he settles into the role of ultra efficient backup.
I don't fear Markus at point as many others seem to. Just because he's a score first player doesn't mean he's a quality PG.
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Ed at 15 minutes? No way. Dude was one of the top 25 rebounders in the country two seasons ago. Also a better defender than anyone who was on the roster last season. If he's at 15 minutes a game he's either regressed or some other players have taken massive leaps.
I also would plan to be patient with Joey. Kid is talented but is still a freshman. I think he settles into the role of ultra efficient backup.
I don't fear Markus at point as many others seem to. Just because he's a score first player doesn't mean he's a quality PG.
That's fine, I could be talked into Ed and Joey flipping minutes.
Marcus would have to progress a lot as a PG to earn more than 10 minutes, both in his handle as well as his defense (especially versus a drive and distribute PG) IMO
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Edited with Greg news (assuming redshirt):
PG: Chartouney (25), Markus (15)
SG: Sacar (20), Markus (15), Bailey (5) [Markus starts]
SF: Sam (15), Cain (15), Bailey (10)
PF: Morrow (15), Sam (15), Joey (10)
C: John (15), Morrow (10), Heldt (10), Joey (5)
Eke: Garbage time only
Totals:
Markus: 30
Sam: 30
Morrow: 25
Chartouney: 25
Sacar: 20
Theo: 15
Joey: 15
Cain: 15
Bailey: 15
Heldt: 10
Ike: Garbage time only
Greg: Redshirt
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That's fine, I could be talked into Ed and Joey flipping minutes.
Marcus would have to progress a lot as a PG to earn more than 10 minutes, both in his handle as well as his defense (especially versus a drive and distribute PG) IMO
Who's Marcus?
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Who's Marcus?
Markus second cousin, he's a walk-on
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Side note. Today is exactly 21 days ooooor 3 weeks until opening game vs UMBC.
And yet we have no win loss prediction thread?
I know I know. I could put it together but who has time for that?
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Through 7 games (rounded to nearest whole number):
Markus 35
Sam 32
Joey 28
Sacar 24
Chartouny 22
Theo 19
Bailey 14
Cain 14
Morrow 11
Heldt 6
I'd say for the most part pretty close to the consensus. A little higher than expected for Joey, and lower for Morrow and Heldt. I suspect we'll see Morrow's minutes increase as the season goes on and he gets more comfortable. Appears Heldt is going to be playing spot minutes for the most part.
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I see Ed and BB getting more and Sacar less.
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Sam 30
Markus 27
Chartouney 24
Joey 22
Sacar 20
Ed 19
Jamal 14
Greg 14
Bailey 12
Theo 12
Matt 8
Eke Garbage Time
We'll go to OT a couple times.
Flip flop Theo and Ed and this wasn't a terrible guess considering Greg's 14 minutes went elsewhere. Probably would've given more minutes to Markus and Joey.
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I was too low on Sam and Markus' minutes as several posters told me I was.
Like pretty much everyone, I did not see John's rise and Matt's steep decline coming
Way too low on Joey (15) and Sacar (9.4). Too high on Ed (10.3) and Bailey (5.7)
Pretty much got Joe's minutes right and I was right about Cain being the odd man out for minutes...and that was even before we knew Greg was injured
So basically, I missed on just about everything.