MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: JoeSmith1721 on September 12, 2018, 12:22:18 PM

Title: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on September 12, 2018, 12:22:18 PM
https://watchstadium.com/news/jeff-goodmans-2018-19-college-basketball-preseason-top-25-rankings-09-10-2018/
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Benny B on September 12, 2018, 12:36:45 PM
Quote
F Joey Hauser (6-9, No. 46, RS Fr., missed most of last season due to ankle surgery)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/qLWdMYX1NYF2g/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Marqevans on September 12, 2018, 12:42:30 PM
Only 2 from the Big East in the top 25? Can Loyola catch fire again?
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: real chili 83 on September 12, 2018, 12:44:58 PM
Wow, Harry averaged 2.8ppg last?  That's a lot more than what I would have though.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 12, 2018, 12:49:27 PM
Only 2 from the Big East in the top 25? Can Loyola catch fire again?

Loyola has the strength to win the MVC I'd say but I highly doubt they'll be knocking on the doors of another Final Four
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Marcus92 on September 12, 2018, 01:08:15 PM
Wow, Harry averaged 2.8ppg last?  That's a lot more than what I would have though.

That's a little over a field goal per game. Not much of an impact.

Harry performed well in a few areas last season: defensive rebounding (20.6 DR% per KenPom, 1st on the team), offensive rebounding (9.5 OR%, 1st), two-point field goals (56.8 2PT%, 3rd) and assists (13.5% ARate, 4th).

Unfortunately, he struggled mightily elsewhere. Harry finished last on the team in three-point shooting (21.1%), eFG% (48.2%) and FTRate (8.9%). Turnovers were also 3rd worst on the team (22.4% TO Rate). Those turnovers, combined with poor outside shooting and a low free throw rate, led to a less-than-impressive 99.7 ORtg (2nd worst on the team).

Apart from defensive rebounding, Harry didn't show much if any improvement in other areas compared to his freshman season at SMU. Marquette fans definitely expected more.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on September 12, 2018, 01:28:45 PM
Loyola has the strength to win the MVC I'd say but I highly doubt they'll be knocking on the doors of another Final Four

In my opinion they're a slight favorite to win that mediocre conference over Illinois St. They'd likely finish somewhere between 6th & 8th in this year's down Big East. Top 25 is a joke. They went from the most underrated team to the most overrated team.

Same with Michigan, 19 is way too high, I think they'll be a fringe tournament team. NIT 2 seed would be my guess if I had to bet right now.

West Virginia I don't get at all. Sure Huggy has a track record but Carter was a huge loss.

I wouldn't have Washington top 25 but I guess I could see it. Would probably swap them with UCLA.

Purdue, Creighton, Louisville, Minnesota, Xavier, Cincinnati, and Davidson should not be in the other top 25.

LSU, Clemson, NC St. Texas, and Iowa are all too low.

St. John's should be in the other 25, along with Miami, Montana, Western Kentucky, Penn St., Vandy, Ohio St., and Northeastern.

Otherwise it's a good list, +/- 3-5 of where I'd have everyone else
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Its DJOver on September 12, 2018, 01:34:34 PM
In my opinion they're a slight favorite to win that mediocre conference over Illinois St. They'd likely finish somewhere between 6th & 8th in this year's down Big East. Top 25 is a joke. They went from the most underrated team to the most overrated team.

Same with Michigan, 19 is way too high, I think they'll be a fringe tournament team. NIT 2 seed would be my guess if I had to bet right now.

West Virginia I don't get at all. Sure Huggy has a track record but Carter was a huge loss.

I wouldn't have Washington top 25 but I guess I could see it. Would probably swap them with UCLA.

Purdue, Creighton, Louisville, Minnesota, Xavier, Cincinnati, and Davidson should not be in the other top 25.

LSU, Clemson, NC St. Texas, and Iowa are all too low.

St. John's should be in the other 25, along with Miami, Montana, Western Kentucky, Penn St., Vandy, Ohio St., and Northeastern.

Otherwise it's a good list, +/- 3-5 of where I'd have everyone else
Slightly off topic, but when is the ruling on Heron supposed to come in?  With him, StJ is definitely top 25.  Without, the snub makes more sense.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on September 12, 2018, 02:38:14 PM
Slightly off topic, but when is the ruling on Heron supposed to come in?  With him, StJ is definitely top 25.  Without, the snub makes more sense.

Agreed, top 25 with Heron, but even without (which I expect) I'd put them in the "other 25". Also very curious when the ruling should be announced.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: MUBigDance on September 12, 2018, 03:23:19 PM
not bad. Shortcomings of list notwithstanding, potentially 4 nonconf games against this top 20.

imagine sweeping:
Kansas 2
Tennessee 9
Kansas State 12
Indiana 20


Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: MU82 on September 12, 2018, 03:41:02 PM
All in all seems a reasonable list.

All in all -- a couple slight factual errors aside -- the MU write-up is fine and placement at #21 seems about right.

All in all, no F%cky in the top 25 is right.

I couldn't help but notice the names Hagans, Herro and Grimes in reading about his top 2 teams, though!
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: jonny09 on September 12, 2018, 06:09:59 PM
Not even a mention of Penn State.   I’m pretty sure they have their entire roster back.  Just shocked not even a mention. 
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: MomofMUltiples on September 12, 2018, 06:17:10 PM
Not even a mention of Penn State.   I’m pretty sure they have their entire roster back.  Just shocked not even a mention.

Tony Carr is gone - drafted by NO and playing in Italy this year.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on September 12, 2018, 06:27:06 PM
Not even a mention of Penn State.   I’m pretty sure they have their entire roster back.  Just shocked not even a mention.

As mentioned they lost Carr early

Also lost One of their other guards to graduation. Gardner I believe
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: jonny09 on September 12, 2018, 06:54:20 PM
Got it.  That makes sense. 
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: TAMU Eagle on September 12, 2018, 07:31:08 PM
Also lost their sixth man to a conduct issue. Replace them with low ranked frosh.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Jay Bee on September 12, 2018, 08:44:09 PM
Senior 7-foot stud in their Satchel, tho, @1na?  ;D
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Herman Cain on September 12, 2018, 08:48:36 PM
VPI at 13th. Let’s see if Buzz and Company can deliver for Goodman.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: TAMU Eagle on September 13, 2018, 08:26:31 AM
In my opinion they're a slight favorite to win that mediocre conference over Illinois St. They'd likely finish somewhere between 6th & 8th in this year's down Big East. Top 25 is a joke. They went from the most underrated team to the most overrated team.

Same with Michigan, 19 is way too high, I think they'll be a fringe tournament team. NIT 2 seed would be my guess if I had to bet right now.

West Virginia I don't get at all. Sure Huggy has a track record but Carter was a huge loss.

I wouldn't have Washington top 25 but I guess I could see it. Would probably swap them with UCLA.

Purdue, Creighton, Louisville, Minnesota, Xavier, Cincinnati, and Davidson should not be in the other top 25.

LSU, Clemson, NC St. Texas, and Iowa are all too low.

St. John's should be in the other 25, along with Miami, Montana, Western Kentucky, Penn St., Vandy, Ohio St., and Northeastern.

Otherwise it's a good list, +/- 3-5 of where I'd have everyone else

I agree with you on Loyola though I think they are a pretty heavy favorite to win the MVC. Especially since Illinois St announced the indefinite suspension of Milik Yarbrough. He was arrested for a hit and run (victim survived with minor injuries) and just plead guilty over the summer to a lesser charge in a domestic violence incident. Not sure he will be back.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on September 13, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
I agree with you on Loyola though I think they are a pretty heavy favorite to win the MVC. Especially since Illinois St announced the indefinite suspension of Milik Yarbrough. He was arrested for a hit and run (victim survived with minor injuries) and just plead guilty over the summer to a lesser charge in a domestic violence incident. Not sure he will be back.

Ha didn't know that, yeah I'd say they're heavier favorites now. But likely finishing 6-8th in the Big East still stands!
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on September 13, 2018, 10:42:14 AM
I agree with you on Loyola though I think they are a pretty heavy favorite to win the MVC. Especially since Illinois St announced the indefinite suspension of Milik Yarbrough. He was arrested for a hit and run (victim survived with minor injuries) and just plead guilty over the summer to a lesser charge in a domestic violence incident. Not sure he will be back.

SIU is going to be pretty good in the upcoming years as well, not enough to challenge Loyola yet but I think they finish up near the top.

Recruited really well and got a lot of talent coming from the Chicago burbs.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Charlotte Warrior on September 14, 2018, 08:22:06 AM
VPI at 13th. Let’s see if Buzz and Company can deliver for Goodman.

Rumblings at VT are that this might be last year for Buzz.   He and AD not getting along ::)   Will they bomb out this year like he did at his last year at MU?   
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: MU82 on September 14, 2018, 08:27:18 AM
Rumblings at VT are that this might be last year for Buzz.   He and AD not getting along ::)   Will they bomb out this year like he did at his last year at MU?

Any links to support these "rumblings"?

Not saying they aren't real. Just would like to see more on 'em.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Newsdreams on September 14, 2018, 08:33:55 AM
Rumblings at VT are that this might be last year for Buzz.   He and AD not getting along ::)   Will they bomb out this year like he did at his last year at MU?

Buzz's tie on too tight?
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 14, 2018, 08:36:56 AM
Any links to support these "rumblings"?

Not saying they aren't real. Just would like to see more on 'em.

It's Herman so you know it's credible
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: warriorchick on September 14, 2018, 09:04:04 AM
Any links to support these "rumblings"?

Not saying they aren't real. Just would like to see more on 'em.

If this is indeed true, my guess is that he is trying to pull the power struggle stuff he tried at Marquette.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: dgies9156 on September 14, 2018, 09:25:25 AM
If this is indeed true, my guess is that he is trying to pull the power struggle stuff he tried at Marquette.

Sister Chick, I'm sure you're right. Somebody is messing with the Hillbilly's Happy.

The guy is an opportunist. I'm guessing he may be another Kevin O'Neill, bouncing around the NCAA until he wears out his welcome entirely.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Waldo Jeffers on September 14, 2018, 09:41:24 AM
nm
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Newsdreams on September 14, 2018, 11:48:53 AM
nm

Not here....
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 14, 2018, 11:49:27 AM
Any links to support these "rumblings"?

Not saying they aren't real. Just would like to see more on 'em.

VT fan forums. Texas A&M is the rumored destination as Kennedy has health problems. TAMU will have his hands full 😂
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Newsdreams on September 14, 2018, 11:52:54 AM
VT fan forums. Texas A&M is the rumored destination as Kennedy has health problems. TAMU will have his hands full 😂

TAMU will flush??
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Nukem2 on September 14, 2018, 12:04:48 PM
VT fan forums. Texas A&M is the rumored destination as Kennedy has health problems. TAMU will have his hands full 😂
Isaac Chew is already on staff at TAMU.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 14, 2018, 12:09:34 PM
Isaac Chew is already on staff at TAMU.

And Jeff Reynolds just joined there as well.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Lennys Tap on September 14, 2018, 01:58:36 PM


The guy is an opportunist. I'm guessing he may be another Kevin O'Neill, bouncing around the NCAA until he wears out his welcome entirely.

Buzz had 7 years at MU (6 as head coach) and is entering year 5 at VTech.

KO had 5 years at MU, 3 at Tennessee, 3 at Northwestern, 1 at Arizona and 4 at USC.

Buzz has also been much more successful.

Bad comparison and I'm willing to bet, wrong conclusion.

By the way, I think Buzz would be a good fit at A+M.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: dgies9156 on September 14, 2018, 11:30:41 PM
Loyola has the strength to win the MVC I'd say but I highly doubt they'll be knocking on the doors of another Final Four

Having the strength to win the MVC is like saying I have the strength to get out of bed in the morning. That conference is to basketball what dog food is to gourmet fine dining.

Sister Jean's intercessions not withstanding, Loyola's chances of making the Final Four again are about the same as the Chicago White Sox winning this year's World Series. Just not going to happen. I know Porter Moser is a good coach and all, but please, there's a lot more deserving teams for the Top 25 than Loyola. Kinda suggests that the author knows the Top 10 and not much else.

That said, I think we're probably better than 21, but there's no basis other than the feeling for our Warriors in my heart. If I were doing this and not a Scooper, 21 is probably where Marquette belongs, until we prove ourselves.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: brewcity77 on September 15, 2018, 06:12:46 AM
Having the strength to win the MVC is like saying I have the strength to get out of bed in the morning. That conference is to basketball what dog food is to gourmet fine dining.

Sister Jean's intercessions not withstanding, Loyola's chances of making the Final Four again are about the same as the Chicago White Sox winning this year's World Series. Just not going to happen. I know Porter Moser is a good coach and all, but please, there's a lot more deserving teams for the Top 25 than Loyola.

I'm sure that was the consensus on Butler after they lost to Duke in the Final & Gordon Hayward went to the NBA.

I expect Loyola to be ranked most of the year. Right now they have the name recognition, and thanks to no one scheduling them, they'll have a gaudy record again. Those alone won't earn them an at large, or even make them deserving of one, but they'll probably win 25+ and get more attention than your typical MVC team.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 15, 2018, 06:57:35 AM
Having the strength to win the MVC is like saying I have the strength to get out of bed in the morning. That conference is to basketball what dog food is to gourmet fine dining.

Sister Jean's intercessions not withstanding, Loyola's chances of making the Final Four again are about the same as the Chicago White Sox winning this year's World Series. Just not going to happen. I know Porter Moser is a good coach and all, but please, there's a lot more deserving teams for the Top 25 than Loyola. Kinda suggests that the author knows the Top 10 and not much else.

That said, I think we're probably better than 21, but there's no basis other than the feeling for our Warriors in my heart. If I were doing this and not a Scooper, 21 is probably where Marquette belongs, until we prove ourselves.

Come on man, it's a tougher league than that. N Iowa has shown some great upsets throughout the years, S Illinois has a surprisingly great BBall history. When Creighton and Wichita St were there they more than proved there's some talent there.

The MVC isn't like Belmont/Murray St running through the A Sun
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: GGGG on September 15, 2018, 08:02:44 AM
Come on man, it's a tougher league than that. N Iowa has shown some great upsets throughout the years, S Illinois has a surprisingly great BBall history. When Creighton and Wichita St were there they more than proved there's some talent there.

The MVC isn't like Belmont/Murray St running through the A Sun

But Creighton and Wichita are gone and SIU and UNI have fallen off.

The MVC isn’t all that good. Loyola will be but I doubt they’ll reach the same success this year.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: brewcity77 on September 15, 2018, 09:06:09 AM
But Creighton and Wichita are gone and SIU and UNI have fallen off.

The MVC isn’t all that good. Loyola will be but I doubt they’ll reach the same success this year.

SIU and Bradley should be pretty good this year. Obviously it isn't what it was when Creighton and Wichita were there, but still around a top-10 league. I'd put them in the 8-11 range (with the A-10, Mountain West, and West Coast) that can viably put multiple teams into the tournament.

Of course there's a steep dropoff from 7 to 8, but I think the drop from 11 to 12 is just as sharp. Basically, 1-7 should expect 3+ bids every year, 8-11 have a chance for 2 or even 3 bids in a great year, and 12+ are getting the autobid and nothing else.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: dgies9156 on September 15, 2018, 11:23:14 AM
Here's the illogic in what we are discussing:

1) We're rated 21.
2) We're a probable tournament team, ideally about 5 maybe a 6 seed.
3) We play in the Big East with the national champion as a twice-a-year adversary.
4) We are talked about as a possible #2 in our conference and, if the stars align right, a worthy competitor to Villanova.

Now:
5) They're rated 25.
6) SIU, SEMO, Northern Iowa, Illinois State and Indiana State, by anyone's admissions, are not Villanova, Butler, Xavier, Creighton, St. John's or Providence. In fact, no one else in their conference even makes honorable mention or others worth mentioning (sorry SIU fans, your team has really played poorly the past few years).
7) Yet, the rankings contend that Loyola, this year, will be in the same general quality as we are and would, were they in our conference, be one of the best teams in conference.

Maybe we'll get 'em in the first round and prove my point conclusively. I just don't see it. I don't think they're as good as the rodent, the F*ing Irish or Vanderbilt for that matter.

Sister Jean will be doing a lot of novenas for Loyola to stay in the Top 25.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on September 15, 2018, 11:55:31 AM
The problem with these ratings are less about the Loyolas and more about the big school bias.  Six ACC schools including ND?  These schools play each other so losses pile up. Five SEC schools? Do the math.  The B1G is actually well-represented for once with four.  On the reverse, only two BE schools?

Will these teams make the Big Dance? Likely. All these in the Top 25? Not so. 

I think Loyola and Nevada earned their ratings. The BE has a lot of transfers and newcomers that make it hard to project. Take MU: I can see 1-5th place.

Conclusion:  These ratings are tried and true coach felatio by Goodie more than anything else. 
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: Galway Eagle on September 15, 2018, 12:06:07 PM
Here's the illogic in what we are discussing:

1) We're rated 21.
2) We're a probable tournament team, ideally about 5 maybe a 6 seed.
3) We play in the Big East with the national champion as a twice-a-year adversary.
4) We are talked about as a possible #2 in our conference and, if the stars align right, a worthy competitor to Villanova.

Now:
5) They're rated 25.
6) SIU, SEMO, Northern Iowa, Illinois State and Indiana State, by anyone's admissions, are not Villanova, Butler, Xavier, Creighton, St. John's or Providence. In fact, no one else in their conference even makes honorable mention or others worth mentioning (sorry SIU fans, your team has really played poorly the past few years).
7) Yet, the rankings contend that Loyola, this year, will be in the same general quality as we are and would, were they in our conference, be one of the best teams in conference.

Maybe we'll get 'em in the first round and prove my point conclusively. I just don't see it. I don't think they're as good as the rodent, the F*ing Irish or Vanderbilt for that matter.

Sister Jean will be doing a lot of novenas for Loyola to stay in the Top 25.

You must see that this entire argument could be made against Gonzaga or Nevada... It's pretty weak logic to say "x team isn't in our league because of their conference" yeah it's often times true but I wonder how many teams said that about George Washington, Davidson, Butler, VCU, Loyola, and Gonzaga.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: brewcity77 on September 15, 2018, 12:18:27 PM
Loyola is bolstered by their F4 run, but they did also beat Florida on the road last year. They can only play who they can get on the schedule, and no one wants to play them. It's easy to say they won't be as good as us, but it will be hard to actually determine that because other than Nevada at home and Maryland in Baltimore, they really won't get much of a chance to prove how good they are.
Title: Re: Jeff Goodman Pre Season Top 25: Marquette #21
Post by: TAMU Eagle on September 15, 2018, 03:18:25 PM
The problem with these ratings are less about the Loyolas and more about the big school bias.  Six ACC schools including ND?  These schools play each other so losses pile up. Five SEC schools? Do the math.  The B1G is actually well-represented for once with four.  On the reverse, only two BE schools?

Will these teams make the Big Dance? Likely. All these in the Top 25? Not so. 

I think Loyola and Nevada earned their ratings. The BE has a lot of transfers and newcomers that make it hard to project. Take MU: I can see 1-5th place.

Conclusion:  These ratings are tried and true coach felatio by Goodie more than anything else.

You are right that these teams from the same conference will beat up on each other and won't all end up in the top 25 at the end of the season. However, that doesn't mean that they aren't one of the top 25 teams in the nation. Personally, I have 7 SEC teams in the top 25 this year along with 7 from the ACC (Notre Dame isn't one of them, think that's some Goodman fellatio).

Loyola? I have them nowhere near the top 25, but they may finish there by the end of the season. If they don't finish the MVC conference season with 2 losses or less it will have been a disappointing year for the Ramblers.