MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on August 12, 2018, 08:08:33 PM
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https://247sports.com/college/marquette/Article/PG-Joe-Chartouny-transferred-from-Fordham-to-Marquette-for-2018-19-season-120609053/
Interview and highlight video. Two things struck me. He is not blazing quick. In the video, his team is always losing.
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Not blazing quick but uses ball fakes (both pass and shot) to get his defender off balance very well and takes advantage getting around the defender. Also always reading the court.
Just how he moves, not how he plays, reminds me of Katin.
I think he’s going to be outstanding for us.
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https://247sports.com/college/marquette/Article/PG-Joe-Chartouny-transferred-from-Fordham-to-Marquette-for-2018-19-season-120609053/
Interview and highlight video. Two things struck me. He is not blazing quick. In the video, his team is always losing.
I have gone to several Fordham games over the years and seen Chartouny . I think he will contribute the same way Trent Lockett did by being a glue guy and doing whatever is necessary to help the team. Lockett was also a bit slower than the rest of our team when he came in, but his experience allowed him to adapt. Gives us a lot of flexibility with our guards as well. Glad we picked him up.
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Not blazing quick but uses ball fakes (both pass and shot) to get his defender off balance very well and takes advantage getting around the defender. Also always reading the court.
Just how he moves, not how he plays, reminds me of Katin.
I think he’s going to be outstanding for us.
Not blazing quick, but I didn't expect a 6'3" PG from Fordham to be blazing quick. Some of the hilights were vs Davidson and he reminds me of players from that program - sound fundamentally, good form on his shot, uses both hands well, plays good position D and plays the passing lanes well.
I also think he'll be outstanding for us.
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And my guess is that he thoroughly understands the role that he will be asked to play here. I am not worried about him.
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I think Wojo and company have learned from the previous development of Carlino and Kaitin, that will assist Chartouny.
Perhaps they now know better how a high usage grad transfer will work out as the season progresses.
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I don't expect him to be a high usage guy for us or at least I hope he isn't. If he is just a facilitator like he describes himself that will be just fine.
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We are better with him than we would be without him.
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I love the drive and kick ability he brings. With the shooters we have that could make him extremely deadly. And if he can teach it to Markus that would be a bonus!
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Not blazing quick but uses ball fakes (both pass and shot) to get his defender off balance very well and takes advantage getting around the defender. Also always reading the court.
Just how he moves, not how he plays, reminds me of Katin.
I think he’s going to be outstanding for us.
Also, having two guards with hesitation-dribble skills (Markus is an artist at this) is going to be really big for us.
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Defense, ball distribution, overall floor leadership, JC is just what is needed for a team with a core of talented shooters and versatile big men.
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We are better with him than we would be without him.
If this is true - and I suspect it is - I will be very happy.
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I think Wojo and company have learned from the previous development of Carlino and Kaitin, that will assist Chartouny.
Perhaps they now know better how a high usage grad transfer will work out as the season progresses.
I should probably then brace myself for the "JC isn't as good as I thought he was" - type posts when he has a couple off games to start the year.
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I should probably then brace myself for the "JC isn't as good as I thought he was" - type posts when he has a couple off games to start the year.
Yep, this will absolutely happen. I'm expecting a slow start from Chartouny, but he will become an extremely valuable role player as we get into BE play.
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For starters he will have to get used to bigger crowds. There are fewer people in the stands at those home games than at my nephews grade school games.
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Watching the highlights, I love the patience. He's always looking for the open man or the better play. So often he seemed to be committed to a drive or three, then suddenly was whipping the ball to the open man or changing it up and going inside. He looks like exactly what we need.
That said, he'll probably start slow. Lockett, Carlino, and Reinhardt all started slowly before acclimating to the team. It may not be until December or January before we see how effective he can be.
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That said, he'll probably start slow. Lockett, Carlino, and Reinhardt all started slowly before acclimating to the team. It may not be until December or January before we see how effective he can be.
I like to think that if this happens, Scoopers, having experienced this before, will be patient and won't lose their shyte.
Oh ... wah-ha-ha-ha-ha! ... sometimes I crack myself up!
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I think posters here are over excited about Chartouny, which means he has a lot of expectations to live up to. I have never seen him play or watched any of the videos. It concerns me that his team finished last in the Atl 10 last year. Usually there are three really good teams in the Atl 10. After that the league does not compare to the Big East. Of course he could of been a very good player surrounded by bad players. I am likely to be happier with Chartouny than a lot of poster here, because I have lower expectations.
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I think posters here are over excited about Chartouny, which means he has a lot of expectations to live up to. I have never seen him play or watched any of the videos. It concerns me that his team finished last in the Atl 10 last year. Usually there are three really good teams in the Atl 10. After that the league does not compare to the Big East. Of course he could of been a very good player surrounded by bad players. I am likely to be happier with Chartouny than a lot of poster here, because I have lower expectations.
Eric Paschall , transferred to Villanova from the same Fordham team that Chartouny played on.
Yes there will be a slight adjustment for Chartouny, however he is an intelligent player who understands what his role is going to be at MU. My expectations are that he is another Trent Lockett, starting off slow and then finding his niche by the end of the season and making important contributions when they matter.
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My expectations are that he is another Trent Lockett
We know.......we know.
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So he's going to be like Trent Lockett?
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Trent Lockett who was valuable and efficient enough that he briefly signed an NBA contract and now plays at a very high level in Europe? I'd be MORE than fine with that level from JC.
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He is a point guard with size who is a plus defender........that alone should get people excited.
Nobody expects him to be all conference.........we expect him to be a guy who fills an important role on a good team.
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He is a point guard with size who is a plus defender........that alone should get people excited.
Nobody expects him to be all conference.........we expect him to be a guy who fills an important role on a good team.
Exactly.
I expect 7-10 ppg, 4-6 apg, and 3-5 rpg on average shooting.
And I expect he will be awesome for us.
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Plus, Chartouny will join Matt as one of two seniors on the roster. Along with juniors Ed, Sacar, Sam and Markus, Marquette will have plenty of experience and leadership to count on this season.
Together, these six players have appeared in 409 career games and logged a total of 9,882 minutes. That's an average of 68 career games played and 24.1 mpg. Such deep experience at virtually every position can be a real difference maker in college basketball.
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Plus, Chartouny will join Matt as one of two seniors on the roster. Along with juniors Ed, Sacar, Sam and Markus, Marquette will have plenty of experience and leadership to count on this season.
Together, these six players have appeared in 409 career games and logged a total of 9,882 minutes. That's an average of 68 career games played and 24.1 mpg. Such deep experience at virtually every position can be a real difference maker in college basketball.
Nice, M92, you musta been captain of your Mathlete team!
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Nice, M92, you musta been captain of your Mathlete team!
Game appearances and minutes played don't equal talent. But they do count (I know, a really bad pun), especially with upperclassmen. There's no substitute for court time.
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Of course he could of been a very good player surrounded by bad players. I am likely to be happier with Chartouny than a lot of poster here, because I have lower expectations.
Chartouny put up better numbers on a better Fordham team as a sophomore. None of the other four starters from his sophomore year were there last year. One graduated, two grad transferred up (one to UConn, one to Boise State), and the fourth had a season-ending injury before Thanksgiving.
I think modest expectations are always a good idea, but I do think the "very good player surrounded by bad players" is an apt description for Chartouny last year.
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Others have mentioned this, but I'm also encouraged by Katin's performance as a graduate transfer at Marquette.
Brett Nelson and the rest of the coaches deserve a lot of credit for helping Katin post career bests in ORtg, OR%, TORate and FTRate during his senior season. From the Wisconsin game on, he shot 47-113 (41.6%) from three-point range, well above his career average.
I wouldn't be surprised to see similar improvements in Chartouny's offensive game.
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Plus, Chartouny will join Matt as one of two seniors on the roster. Along with juniors Ed, Sacar, Sam and Markus, Marquette will have plenty of experience and leadership to count on this season.
Together, these six players have appeared in 409 career games and logged a total of 9,882 minutes. That's an average of 68 career games played and 24.1 mpg. Such deep experience at virtually every position can be a real difference maker in college basketball.
Plus add to that three top guys off the bench that played very significant roles as Frosh last year who will all be expected to make big jumps as Sophs this year.
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3 things:
1. Herman Cain, good thought on Paschal also being from Fordham. Neither were transcendent players (defined their team) but very good on their own.
2. As all the comments really imply...Chartouny gets to focus on what he does best...steal and dish. Our team is loaded with scoring talent...He gets to do his best stuff all the time.
3. When can we stop calling him by his last name. Matt, Ed, Sacar, Sam, Markus....why not "Joe"?.... I know what you're thinking but we'll be calling him "Joey"
note: "JC" might also work but I avoid reserve that for someone else :)
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note: "JC" might also work but I avoid reserve that for someone else :)
Junior Cadougan?
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Junior Cadougan?
Joe Chapman?
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Joe Chapman?
Jesus Christ.
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Jose Cuervo?
Jose Canseco?
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John Coffey?
Jiminy Cricket?
Jordan Collier?
John Connor?
Jesse Custer?
Joe Christmas?
Jim Casey?
John Carpenter?
John Carter?
John Constantine?
Jim Conklin?
That's all the famous Jesus allegories I could come up with the initial's JC
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For starters he will have to get used to bigger crowds. There are fewer people in the stands at those home games than at my nephews grade school games.
LeJon James, is that you?
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So, we are assuming the Wino begins the year as the starting PG. With Markus going to Chris Paul PG camp and you cats telling us to temper our enthusiasm based on the assimilation rates of past transfers, does Joe begin the season coming off the bench? If so, is Greg the starter?
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So, we are assuming the Wino begins the year as the starting PG. With Markus going to Chris Paul PG camp and you cats telling us to temper our enthusiasm based on the assimilation rates of past transfers, does Joe begin the season coming off the bench? If so, is Greg the starter?
I see Joe being the starter from the beginning of the season. It's obvious what the team's been missing the last few season, and Wojo won't be timid about using the answer right away.
Joe seem to have a high BB IQ (from what I read). He is a senior with the experience of playing as the marked man and accepting that pressure. I think Wojo feels the Big East stage will not be anything that Joe can not handle. Anyways I hope Joe has a few SOTG awards this coming season.
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The Wino is just a terrible nickname.
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So, we are assuming the Wino begins the year as the starting PG. With Markus going to Chris Paul PG camp and you cats telling us to temper our enthusiasm based on the assimilation rates of past transfers, does Joe begin the season coming off the bench? If so, is Greg the starter?
Personally, I think Joe starts but could be wrong. I personally see a starting lineup of:
PG1: Joe
PG2: M2N
SF: Sammy
PF: Ed
C: Heldt
With Joey as the first man off the bench getting more minutes than Heldt. Minutes are going to be tricky this season. Greg, Sacar, and Cain are really going to have to battle to earn time.
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Wojo wants all of his guards to be able to initiate the offense as a point guard.
Marcus is going to start and at times will be the point. Who starts at the other two guard spots is the question. Anim is the best defender, but I believe he will have to fight to keep his starting job. He has a lot of competition for the small forward/guard spot. Elliot, Cain Sam, Bailey or Joey could all end up at the three. Depending on who starts we may not have that much offense. Matt, Anim and Chartouny would leave us with only two shooters in the lineup. Morrow may be the best rebounder, but I do not know how much offense he actually brings to the table. Cain can shoot and he has the speed to guard at the three. How good of a defensive player he is remains to be seen. I think we need three shooters in the starting lineup. Sam is a great shooter, but he is not an aggressive player on offense. We need a third shooter to get Sam open.
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I think it is too early to really tell what the distribution of minutes is.
We have 4 guys who are athletic, competitive and tough and exemplify what Big East basketball is traditionally all about those being Theo, Jamal, Elliott and Sacar.
We have two guys who are nationally elite shooters in Markus and Sam.
We have two solid inside guys in Heldt and Morrow, both of who have the experience and size to compete in the Big East
We have a grad newcomer who has a solid overall skill set and is a plus defender in Chartouny.
We have two super skilled freshman with size in Joey and B Bailey.
We have an athletic specimen coming off surgery in Ike.
My guess at this point is the rotation goes 9 or 10 deep with minutes distributed somewhat similar to the way they were in 2016-17, where extended minutes where given to those who were doing well in each game. The best players in practice will be the starters.
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The Wino is just a terrible nickname.
The Sommelier it is then. Serving up the finest in Saone-et-Loire varietals.
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So, we are assuming the Wino begins the year as the starting PG.
The Wino? What does that even mea....ohhhhh.
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Dude's gonna converse wit ghosts, hey?
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Wojo wants all of his guards to be able to initiate the offense as a point guard.
Marcus is going to start and at times will be the point. Who starts at the other two guard spots is the question. Anim is the best defender, but I believe he will have to fight to keep his starting job. He has a lot of competition for the small forward/guard spot. Elliot, Cain Sam, Bailey or Joey could all end up at the three. Depending on who starts we may not have that much offense. Matt, Anim and Chartouny would leave us with only two shooters in the lineup. Morrow may be the best rebounder, but I do not know how much offense he actually brings to the table. Cain can shoot and he has the speed to guard at the three. How good of a defensive player he is remains to be seen. I think we need three shooters in the starting lineup. Sam is a great shooter, but he is not an aggressive player on offense. We need a third shooter to get Sam open.
Joe is the best defender not Sacar.
I wouldn't worry about the shooters......we have plenty of options.
JC pg
MH guard
Sam
Ed or Joey
Ed or Matt
That's how I see it (depending on the opponent) to start the season.
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Dude's gonna converse wit ghosts, hey?
I think we already had some one on the team that staked out that position.
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3 things:
1. Herman Cain, good thought on Paschal also being from Fordham. Neither were transcendent players (defined their team) but very good on their own.
2. As all the comments really imply...Chartouny gets to focus on what he does best...steal and dish. Our team is loaded with scoring talent...He gets to do his best stuff all the time.
3. When can we stop calling him by his last name. Matt, Ed, Sacar, Sam, Markus....why not "Joe"?.... I know what you're thinking but we'll be calling him "Joey"
note: "JC" might also work but I avoid reserve that for someone else :)
I already have settled on JC Superstar, or JCS for short.
Others can call him whatever they want.
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I should probably then brace myself for the "JC isn't as good as I thought he was" - type posts when he has a couple off games to start the year.
Right. That's exactly what people posted about Harry Froling after a couple of games and look how well that turned out.
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The Wino? What does that even mea....ohhhhh.
Cam Marotta?
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I like "The French Connection" as a nickname for a point guard distributor hailing from Quebec.
If Chartouny is as good on defense as his reputation suggests, a nickname along the lines of "The Glove" (Gary Payton) would also be a good fit.
Maybe "The Flash" for his instincts and quick jump to intercept passes? "The Tornado" for causing chaos with the other team's offense? "The Shadow" for guarding players close?
Any of those would be miles better than "The Wino."
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Right. That's exactly what people posted about Harry Froling after a couple of games and look how well that turned out.
No doubt Harry was a disappointment but Joe has a much better track record as a college player then Harry did.
Our record with transfers has been pretty damn good......especially Grad transfers.
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Right. That's exactly what people posted about Harry Froling after a couple of games and look how well that turned out.
So easy to be negative ... and for what purpose?
You do know that Lockett, Reinhardt and Chartouny are all grad transfers with considerable experience and accomplishments, while Froling was a freshman who hardly played in his half-season at SMU, right?
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So easy to be negative ... and for what purpose?
You do know that Lockett, Reinhardt and Chartouny are all grad transfers with considerable experience and accomplishments, while Froling was a freshman who hardly played in his half-season at SMU, right?
I also know that lot of folks, particularly Dodds, who had a huge picture of Harry heading his site for about 9 months, told us that Harry was the second coming of Bill Walton. Done Deal.
For what purpose? - to remind the Pollyanna types not to count their chickens before they're hatched.
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I also know that lot of folks, particularly Dodds, who had a huge picture of Harry heading his site for about 9 months, told us that Harry was the second coming of Bill Walton. Done Deal.
For what purpose? - to remind the Pollyanna types not to count their chickens before they're hatched.
Well first, I think MU82's point is a good one. JC is a proven college player and not a guy judged on potential like Froling.
Second, the next time I pay attention to any of Dodds' opinions on players will be my first.
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Second, the next time I pay attention to any of Dodds' opinions on players will be my first.
I pay attention and then I assume the opposite. Sort of like the opposite George Costanza. It works out pretty well.
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I pay attention and then I assume the opposite. Sort of like the opposite George Costanza. It works out pretty well.
"My name is George. I'm unemployed and I live with my parents."
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"My name is George. I'm unemployed and I live with my parents."
Mr. Steinbrenner : Nice to meet you.
George : Well, I wish I could say the same, but I must say, with all due respect, I find it very hard to see the logic behind some of the moves you have made with this fine organization. In the past twenty years you have caused myself, and the city of New York, a good deal of distress, as we have watched you take our beloved Yankees and reduced them to a laughing stock, all for the glorification of your massive ego!
Mr. Steinbrenner : Hire this man!
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I like "The French Connection" as a nickname for a point guard distributor hailing from Quebec.
If Chartouny is as good on defense as his reputation suggests, a nickname along the lines of "The Glove" (Gary Payton) would also be a good fit.
Maybe "The Flash" for his instincts and quick jump to intercept passes? "The Tornado" for causing chaos with the other team's offense? "The Shadow" for guarding players close?
Any of those would be miles better than "The Wino."
The flash, shadow, or tornado would be 1000x worse and indescribaly gaer than the wino
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I also know that lot of folks, particularly Dodds, who had a huge picture of Harry heading his site for about 9 months, told us that Harry was the second coming of Bill Walton. Done Deal.
For what purpose? - to remind the Pollyanna types not to count their chickens before they're hatched.
Froling, a freshman who had played a handful of college games, fooled Bilas, too, and a few others who know more than you, me or Dodds do.
JCS is a legit college player with a pretty darn good resume who happens to fit the exact need we had.
Being negative for the sake of it is silly and wasted energy.
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Being negative for the sake of it is silly and wasted energy.
You've now said the same thing twice- want to go for the triple crown? I realize there are folks here who can't handle the slightest bit of criticism of the program or the Scooper crowd, but repetition is not very convincing. And how we choose to spend our energy is nobody's business but our own. 9,000 posts on a college basketball site seems like a weird use of energy to me, but hey- its a free country.
You can have the last word.
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I've found it takes very little energy to post.........
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I've found it takes very little energy to post.........
I usually have to take a little nap after doing it.
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The flash, shadow, or tornado would be 1000x worse and indescribaly gaer than the wino
There's zero need to use a slur on sexual orientation to make your objection clear. To each his own.
IMO, "The Wino" is both lazy and dumb. "Chartouny" only vaguely resembles "chardonnay." And I can think of no universe in which "wino" (defined as a person addicted to wine, especially a derelict) is a nickname anyone would want. Would "The Heroin Junkie" be a good nickname for Tyler Herro?
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Joseph "Vintage" Chartouny would be a much better nickname if you want to connect his last name to "chardonnay."
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" The Thief"
It is his best skill.
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The Lebanese Dish.
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You've now said the same thing twice- want to go for the triple crown? I realize there are folks here who can't handle the slightest bit of criticism of the program or the Scooper crowd, but repetition is not very convincing. And how we choose to spend our energy is nobody's business but our own. 9,000 posts on a college basketball site seems like a weird use of energy to me, but hey- its a free country.
You can have the last word.
It was a bad comparison and I called you on it and I explained why. And you reacted by using energy to write a post questioning why anybody would use energy to post here. Outstanding.
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There's zero need to use a slur on sexual orientation to make your objection clear. To each his own.
Fortunately for him, his spelling ignorance helped mask his social ignorance.
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IMO, "The Wino" is both lazy and dumb. "Chartouny" only vaguely resembles "chardonnay." And I can think of no universe in which "wino" (defined as a person addicted to wine, especially a derelict) is a nickname anyone would want. Would "The Heroin Junkie" be a good nickname for Tyler Herro?
Oh, boy...the collective sensitivity of Scoop.
"The Wino" has its origins back to his recruitment when few posters could, and then became would as a board joke, be able to spell Joe's name correctly, so then it became "Chardonnay". This is similar to "O'Tule" or "Dewayne" or "Davonte" or "O'Neal" or "Heyward". Frankly, this board has a spelling problem.
Yes, calling him "Wino" it is both lazy and dumb, but so is continually misspelling our multi year player's or coach's names.
Thanks for setting me straight, though. One simple ask: change your handle. It is spelled "Markus", not "Marcus".
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Oh, boy...the collective sensitivity of Scoop.
"The Wino" has its origins back to his recruitment when few posters could, and then became would as a board joke, be able to spell Joe's name correctly, so then it became "Chardonnay". This is similar to "O'Tule" or "Dewayne" or "Davonte" or "O'Neal" or "Heyward". Frankly, this board has a spelling problem.
Yes, calling him "Wino" it is both lazy and dumb, but so is continually misspelling our multi year player's or coach's names.
Thanks for setting me straight, though. One simple ask: change your handle. It is spelled "Markus", not "Marcus".
Frankly, "Lazy and Dumb" should be Scoop's tagline.
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Oh, boy...the collective sensitivity of Scoop.
"The Wino" has its origins back to his recruitment when few posters could, and then became would as a board joke, be able to spell Joe's name correctly, so then it became "Chardonnay". This is similar to "O'Tule" or "Dewayne" or "Davonte" or "O'Neal" or "Heyward". Frankly, this board has a spelling problem.
Yes, calling him "Wino" it is both lazy and dumb, but so is continually misspelling our multi year player's or coach's names.
To me, it's less about sensitivity than the fact that it's a terrible nickname. Apologies if I've overanalyzed things. I'd simply hate for "The Wino" to stick as a nickname.
Thanks for setting me straight, though. One simple ask: change your handle. It is spelled "Markus", not "Marcus".
I've been Marcus92 on MUScoop since 2012. Didn't change it for Markus Howard, Quentin Grimes, Joseph Chartouny or any other player. Not changing it now.
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To me, it's less about sensitivity than the fact that it's a terrible nickname. Apologies if I've overanalyzed things. I'd simply hate for "The Wino" to stick as a nickname.
I've been Marcus92 on MUScoop since 2012. Didn't change it for Markus Howard, Quentin Grimes, Joseph Chartouny or any other player. Not changing it now.
Thanks, no apologizes needed. Sometimes (often times) I post things for effect. In this case, "The Wino" is so out there, no one else would honestly repeat it. But, it may cause posters to pause and look up the spelling of his name or wonder who that refers to and learn a little bit about him and maybe post it here.
Fair enough on the Marcus moniker. I remember now that is your name.
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I should probably then brace myself for the "JC isn't as good as I thought he was" - type posts when he has a couple off games to start the year.
Hope everyone braced themselves.