MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: PorkysButthole on May 17, 2018, 11:32:26 AM
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With expectations through the roof next season and consensus that it's a make or break year for WOJO, I'm curious if anyone out there shares Porky's concerns that the non con schedule is getting ahead of our talent and might be too ambitious. SOS is obviously very important but only to the extent that you can win at least 40% of those games. SOS without W's is useless and Porky is not buying that this roster is as talented as we all want it to be and on the precipice of consistently being a Top 25 program. The coaching staff as it's currently configured doesn't give Porky much confidence either but is hoping talent will overcome the staff's deficiencies. Nothing would make Porky happier than to be dead wrong about this come next March but recent history does not provide much comfort. Thoughts?
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Our defense will determine what kind of season we will have; not the schedule.
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No. Finally, there is size, scoring, and experience. Wojo clearly thinks that the 2018-19 team has a high ceiling. He has scheduled accordingly.
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Too advanced? No.
The way the non-con schedule is looking, there will be six games of consequence: @Indiana, Kansas/Tennessee/Louisville, Kansas/Tennessee/Louisville, Kansas State, Wisconsin, and Buffalo.
Assuming we win all of our other non-conference games, I think we need to go 3-3 or better in order to meet most scoopers' season expectations. 2-4 could be salvagable with a top 3 finish in the Big East.
Looking at the games, I think we will be favored in 3 and dogs in 3:
Tennessee/Kansas (significant dogs)
at Indiana (slight dogs)
Kansas State (slight dogs)
Buffalo (significant favorites)
Wisconsin (significant favorites)
Louisville (significant favorites)
I am assuming that we will either be matched with Louisville....or that both us and Louisville will lose in the opening round.
If we win the three we are supposed to win and lose the three we are supposed to lose, we will be just fine. If we can find a way to win one of Indiana/Kansas State than I think we are in really good shape. If we beat Tennesse or Kansas....I will be very excited about the rest of the season.
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Does Porky tweet in the third person too?
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Nope. If we hadn't added JC then yes.
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We are supposed to be a big time program, so heck no! >:(
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Too advanced? No.
The way the non-con schedule is looking, there will be six games of consequence: @Indiana, Kansas/Tennessee/Louisville, Kansas/Tennessee/Louisville, Kansas State, Wisconsin, and Buffalo.
Assuming we win all of our other non-conference games, I think we need to go 3-3 or better in order to meet most scoopers' season expectations. 2-4 could be salvagable with a top 3 finish in the Big East.
Looking at the games, I think we will be favored in 3 and dogs in 3:
Tennessee/Kansas (significant dogs)
at Indiana (slight dogs)
Kansas State (slight dogs)
Buffalo (significant favorites)
Wisconsin (significant favorites)
Louisville (significant favorites)
I am assuming that we will either be matched with Louisville....or that both us and Louisville will lose in the opening round.
If we win the three we are supposed to win and lose the three we are supposed to lose, we will be just fine. If we can find a way to win one of Indiana/Kansas State than I think we are in really good shape. If we beat Tennesse or Kansas....I will be very excited about the rest of the season.
In a 6 game stretch where we are "significant favorites" 3x, "significant dogs 1x and "slight dogs" 2x, the most likely outcome (expected) is 4-2. 5-1 is great, 3-3 below expectation though not disastrous. 6-0 would be awesome, 2-4 (or worse) would range from really bad to really, really bad.
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You also schedule based on how strong you think your conference will be. With a number of Big East schools appearing to take a step back, the non-conference SOS needed to be increased.
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You also schedule based on how strong you think your conference will be. With a number of Big East schools appearing to take a step back, the non-conference SOS needed to be increased.
Need to see the rest of the schedule. They still could schedule some SOS-punishing teams and muck it up.
I do worry about 4 OOC losses. We’ll be fine - just don’t like the optics.
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We should know a lot about the squad early on. I have no idea if too advanced, but very happy on an improved NC schedule. Another hats off to Wojo for improving the schedule.
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In a 6 game stretch where we are "significant favorites" 3x, "significant dogs 1x and "slight dogs" 2x, the most likely outcome (expected) is 4-2. 5-1 is great, 3-3 below expectation though not disastrous. 6-0 would be awesome, 2-4 (or worse) would range from really bad to really, really bad.
Why would 4-2 be expected if we are only favored in 3 of the games?
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Why would 4-2 be expected if we are only favored in 3 of the games?
My guess is the expected would work out to be over 3 but less than 4....depending on probabilities for a win of the 3 significant fav and the 1 significant dog
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We've had teams with 14 losses getting at large bids, teams with 10 losses getting 2 seeds, etc.
You don't have to go 26-4 to get a good seed anymore. We don't need to be 11-2 heading into the Big East.
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I think Wojo has been pretty consistent in his scheduling the last couple of years. Starting in 15-16 (because that's when the Gavitt games started) we have gone.
15-16
Gavitt (Iowa(L)), Non-conference tourney (Legends Classic(W,W)), Madison(W), high quality mid major (Belmont(L))
16-17
Non-conference tourney (2K classic(L,L)), H+H (Georgia(W)), Madison(L), high quality mid major (Fresno St(W))
17-18
Gavitt (Purdue(L)), Non-conference tourney (Maui(W,L,W)), H+H (Georgia(L)), Madison(W), high quality mid major (Vermont(W))
18-19
Gavitt (I4), Non-conference tourney (NIT), H+H (K-State), Madison, high quality mid major (Buffalo)
So other than missing a Gavitt game in 16-17, which we couldn't control, and not having a H+H in 15-16 (Was that supposed to be Utah?), we've been consistent in our non-conference. Obviously some non-conference tourney's are better than others, and K-State is better than Georgia, but that's about it. Where we could improve IMO is not having as many if any 300+ RPI games. One should be the max.
*Edit, forgot Vandy in 16-17, makes up for not having a Gavitt game. We went 3-2 in 15-16, 3-3 in 16-17, and 4-3 in 17-18. I would be perfectly happy with 4-2 in 18-19
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Need to see the rest of the schedule. They still could schedule some SOS-punishing teams and muck it up.
I do worry about 4 OOC losses. We’ll be fine - just don’t like the optics.
Agreed, but barring injuries we should win 12+ conference games, so 4 OOC losses no matta!
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Agreed, but barring injuries we should win 12+ conference games, so 4 OOC losses no matta!
Correct. Still a tourney team. We will just have some “fans” panicking and saying stupid crap in December
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I think Wojo has been pretty consistent in his scheduling the last couple of years. Starting in 15-16 (because that's when the Gavitt games started) we have gone.
15-16
Gavitt (Iowa(L)), Non-conference tourney (Legends Classic(W,W)), Madison(W), high quality mid major (Belmont(L))
16-17
Non-conference tourney (2K classic(L,L)), H+H (Georgia(W)), Madison(L), high quality mid major (Fresno St(W))
17-18
Gavitt (Purdue(L)), Non-conference tourney (Maui(W,L,W)), H+H (Georgia(L)), Madison(W), high quality mid major (Vermont(W))
18-19
Gavitt (I4), Non-conference tourney (NIT), H+H (K-State), Madison, high quality mid major (Buffalo)
So other than missing a Gavitt game in 16-17, which we couldn't control, and not having a H+H in 15-16 (Was that supposed to be Utah?), we've been consistent in our non-conference. Obviously some non-conference tourney's are better than others, and K-State is better than Georgia, but that's about it. Where we could improve IMO is not having as many if any 300+ RPI games. One should be the max.
*Edit, forgot Vandy in 16-17, makes up for not having a Gavitt game. We went 3-2 in 15-16, 3-3 in 16-17, and 4-3 in 17-18. I would be perfectly happy with 4-2 in 18-19
We lost to Belmont in 15-16... if we'd beaten them we may have at least had an nit berth
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I am sure this was talked about at some point buuuut if we were to pick, which 2 out of the 3 teams would we want to play for the NIT tip off? I am assuming Kansas and Tennessee for SOS purposes and quality win opportunity (I think Louisville is the USC of last year) or would we want the game we have a better chance of winning knowing our SOS will be solid no matter what? Plus beating Mack one more time
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I am sure this was talked about at some point buuuut if we were to pick, which 2 out of the 3 teams would we want to play for the NIT tip off? I am assuming Kansas and Tennessee for SOS purposes and quality win opportunity (I think Louisville is the USC of last year) or would we want the game we have a better chance of winning knowing our SOS will be solid no matter what? Plus beating Mack one more time
Personally I'd like to get Louisville. Our games are always entertaining, plus I think that would guarantee at least 1-1 in Brooklyn, and if we go 1-1 in Brooklyn and beat I4, I think there's a very good chance that we're ranked when K-State comes to town.
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With expectations through the roof next season and consensus that it's a make or break year for WOJO, I'm curious if anyone out there shares Porky's concerns that the non con schedule is getting ahead of our talent and might be too ambitious. SOS is obviously very important but only to the extent that you can win at least 40% of those games. SOS without W's is useless and Porky is not buying that this roster is as talented as we all want it to be and on the precipice of consistently being a Top 25 program. The coacIhing staff as it's currently configured doesn't give Porky much confidence either but is hoping talent will overcome the staff's deficiencies. Nothing would make Porky happier than to be dead wrong about this come next March but recent history does not provide much comfort. Thoughts?
Preliminary excuse.
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Some people are never happy.
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Why would 4-2 be expected if we are only favored in 3 of the games?
If we're 90% likely to win the 3 games where we are big chalks and 10% likely to win the game we are a big dog, that translates into a win expectation of 2.8 (.9+.9+.9+.1).
If we're 40% likely to win the games where we are small dogs, that translates into a win expectation of .8 (.4+.4)
2.8 + .8 = a total win expectation of 3.6 - IOW, closer to 4 than 3. This is not exact, of course, and won't be until we know what the actual odds are in each game, but simple math informs us that not all "expected wins" and "expected losses" are equal. If we open, for example with a pure cupcake our win expectation might be .999. If in the next 2 games we are a 1 point dog our win expectation might be .485 and .485. So even though we were technically dogs in 2 of the three games our win expectation would be 1.969 (.999 + .485 + .485), nowhere near the 1 win your logic would assign us.
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If we're 90% likely to win the 3 games where we are big chalks and 10% likely to win the game we are a big dog, that translates into a win expectation of 2.8 (.9+.9+.9+.1).
If we're 40% likely to win the games where we are small dogs, that translates into a win expectation of .8 (.4+.4)
2.8 + .8 = a total win expectation of 3.6 - IOW, closer to 4 than 3. This is not exact, of course, and won't be until we know what the actual odds are in each game, but simple math informs us that not all "expected wins" and "expected losses" are equal. If we open, for example with a pure cupcake our win expectation might be .999. If in the next 2 games we are a 1 point dog our win expectation might be .485 and .485. So even though we were technically dogs in 2 of the three games our win expectation would be 1.969 (.999 + .485 + .485), nowhere near the 1 win your logic would assign us.
I wouldn't put any of those games at 90% likely to win (or 90% to lose). I would put it more around 70% which would equal .7+.7+.7+.3+.4+.4 = 3.2. Meaning 3 wins should be expected. Of course both of us are just making up numbers at this point.
Let me rephrase. If we play to expectations in each individual game, we will go 3-3.
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Big schools play schools.
Mid-majors play mid-majors.
Nobodies play nobodies.
If we're ready for Prime Time, we'll know it by Christmas. If we're not, we'll be looking for Santa to leave us a new coach under the tree.
Candidly, I admire Wojo and the scheduling folks. Short of scheduling Duke, Kentucky and Carolina in back-to-back-to-back games, this is about as tough a challenge as we can expect for the pre-conference season. We look good in the early season and we'll be contending for the conference championship.
If Marquette wants to go uptown, we have to play with the big boys. Pure and simple.
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Big schools play schools.
Mid-majors play mid-majors.
Nobodies play nobodies.
If we're ready for Prime Time, we'll know it by Christmas. If we're not, we'll be looking for Santa to leave us a new coach under the tree.
Candidly, I admire Wojo and the scheduling folks. Short of scheduling Duke, Kentucky and Carolina in back-to-back-to-back games, this is about as tough a challenge as we can expect for the pre-conference season. We look good in the early season and we'll be contending for the conference championship.
If Marquette wants to go uptown, we have to play with the big boys. Pure and simple.
So when SWAC schools play 13 road games against high majors for their non-conference does that make them big schools? ;D
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I really like how this schedule is shaping up. Hope this continues for many years to come.
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So when SWAC schools play 13 road games against high majors for their non-conference does that make them big schools? ;D
Only before christmas
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I have my doubts. There are certainly question marks we just cannot answer right now. How far will Sam be in his recovery. Remember it is not only being able to play, but it is getting up to the level we are used to. Our two incoming freshmen did not play at all last year. How long will it take them to get comfortable playing at the college level? How many games does it take our graduate transfer point guard to get use to playing in MU's system and click with the current players? This team could be very good early or a complete disappointment and it this has nothing to do with Wojo.
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So when SWAC schools play 13 road games against high majors for their non-conference does that make them big schools? ;D
No. It makes them solvent.
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I wouldn't put any of those games at 90% likely to win (or 90% to lose). I would put it more around 70% which would equal .7+.7+.7+.3+.4+.4 = 3.2. Meaning 3 wins should be expected. Of course both of us are just making up numbers at this point.
Let me rephrase. If we play to expectations in each individual game, we will go 3-3.
I guess. But of course then a team that's a 30 point favorite in game 1 and a 2 point dog in the next 19 that goes 1-19 played to expectations in each individual game. I'd still say they had a disappointing season.
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Next year is Wojo's year. Have to like he is picking up the gauntlet.
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Big schools play schools.
Mid-majors play mid-majors.
Nobodies play nobodies.
If we're ready for Prime Time, we'll know it by Christmas. If we're not, we'll be looking for Santa to leave us a new coach under the tree.
Candidly, I admire Wojo and the scheduling folks. Short of scheduling Duke, Kentucky and Carolina in back-to-back-to-back games, this is about as tough a challenge as we can expect for the pre-conference season. We look good in the early season and we'll be contending for the conference championship.
If Marquette wants to go uptown, we have to play with the big boys. Pure and simple.
I tend to agree with the first bolded sentence. If the team is healthy and gels by Christmas, then an exciting year could be ahead.
I wholeheartedly disagree with the second bolded sentence. Wojo has put together, on paper a talented team. There are too many uncertainties to judge his season at Christmas. Give him the full season to bring it together.
That said, I'm in the camp that he really needs to begin to show his chops this season or I might lean towards looking elsewhere.
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Heck, I think we may know whether this team is ready for Prime Time by the time we chow down on turkey in late November.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that Coach Wojo needs a full year and I'm firmly in his camp. But, if we're at a losing record by the time we play the Badgers and our defense is still shaky, then I think when the NCAA Tournament Committee convenes in March to select, we better have blown through the Big East schedule and wasted Villanova at least once or we're going to be seeing three nasty letters: N-I-T again!
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I think Wojo has put together a very good team. However, I think you guys are ahead of yourselves with expectations. Look how good Jae Crowder was suppose to be and how good he turned out to be. He had his breakout game against West Virginia. It took him dozen games to become a star. I think Baily and Joey are going to be really good. I also would be surprised if they are ready in November, especially since they did not play at all last year.
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I think Wojo has put together a very good team. However, I think you guys are ahead of yourselves with expectations. Look how good Jae Crowder was suppose to be and how good he turned out to be. He had his breakout game against West Virginia. It took him dozen games to become a star. I think Baily and Joey are going to be really good. I also would be surprised if they are ready in November, especially since they did not play at all last year.
You can also use this logic to say that while Romeo Langford will likely be a lottery pick, he won't be as good in his 2nd or 3rd collegiate game (I don't know anything else about I4's schedule but I'd imagine we're their first high major). Both K-State and Tenn have good experienced teams, but drawing Kansas in November is far preferable to March with the youth they'll have. We're playing at home against Madison and Buffalo and should be heavy favorites in both. 3-3 in those six I would be slightly disappointed, but not surprised, anything above .500 and we'll be in great shape for conference play IMO.
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This schedule is what we need because it's rubber meets the road time. We return 4 starters and our entire bench. We add a seemingly ideal fit grad transfer, a proven and experienced forwards, and a five-star freshman. This schedule will give us evidence in no uncertain terms if Wojo has built a contender or pretender. We're past the point of wins for wins sake. Play good teams and prove we belong.
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I think Wojo has put together a very good team. However, I think you guys are ahead of yourselves with expectations. Look how good Jae Crowder was suppose to be and how good he turned out to be. He had his breakout game against West Virginia. It took him dozen games to become a star. I think Baily and Joey are going to be really good. I also would be surprised if they are ready in November, especially since they did not play at all last year.
1. As DJO pointed out, this impacts all teams, not just ours. We are returning a lot of experience so theoretically it should impact other teams more than us.
2. I remember Jae Crowder very differently than you do. He had 11 and 7 in his first game, a double double in his second game, 17 and 9 in his 3rd game, 15 and 4 steals against Duke, 10 and 5 steals against Gonzaga, scored 22 points in another game....all before the West Virginia game. Yes, West Virginia was his biggest game up until that point....but he was pretty "broken out" already. Crowder made a huge impact from Day 1.
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Heck, I think we may know whether this team is ready for Prime Time by the time we chow down on turkey in late November.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that Coach Wojo needs a full year and I'm firmly in his camp. But, if we're at a losing record by the time we play the Badgers and our defense is still shaky, then I think when the NCAA Tournament Committee convenes in March to select, we better have blown through the Big East schedule and wasted Villanova at least once or we're going to be seeing three nasty letters: N-I-T again!
Grate bein' firm, aina?
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Hmm, let's see what people say at the end of the season. We hold Wojo accountable, how about our predictors?
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Hmm, let's see what people say at the end of the season. We hold Wojo accountable, how about our predictors?
I'm willing to hold Wojo accountable at the end of the season (though I acknowledge that my opinion is meaningless to the powers that be). My point earlier in the thread is that we might have an inkling before Christmas, but it most certainly won't be the time to judge.
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The schedule is not too advanced for our talent. I would much rather play tough teams instead of a trash Georgetown schedule. I don't really ever care to watch a Chicago State team come to town. As another post, defense is the key. I give Wojo a pass by playing two Smurf guards. No team will ever be good defensively with that in your lineup.
I think if this team seriously stinks on defense then we really need to consider moving on. Sammy's hip for sure affected him defensively this year. Minus Smurfs. Minus a big 6'11" stiff that couldn't jump for crap. Addition of a big guard that is experienced. Increasing size at every position.
As soon as I start reading the 0.713 probability, the forecasted SOS I start to block out that post. All I know is that we were one bad loss against DePaul or St John's from being tied for third in conference and going to the Big Dance!
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With expectations through the roof next season and consensus that it's a make or break year for WOJO, I'm curious if anyone out there shares Porky's concerns that the non con schedule is getting ahead of our talent and might be too ambitious. SOS is obviously very important but only to the extent that you can win at least 40% of those games. SOS without W's is useless and Porky is not buying that this roster is as talented as we all want it to be and on the precipice of consistently being a Top 25 program. The coaching staff as it's currently configured doesn't give Porky much confidence either but is hoping talent will overcome the staff's deficiencies. Nothing would make Porky happier than to be dead wrong about this come next March but recent history does not provide much comfort. Thoughts?
Kevin ONeill overscheduled one year and it hurt us as much as wearing those LA Gear shoes. We had talent, but very young. This year's team has talent and experience which worries me less, but it is a good question.
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I'm worried our schedule won't be tough enough.
We're gonna be so filthy good that I don't want our ladz getting bored with all the easy wins!
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With expectations through the roof next season and consensus that it's a make or break year for WOJO, I'm curious if anyone out there shares Porky's concerns that the non con schedule is getting ahead of our talent and might be too ambitious. SOS is obviously very important but only to the extent that you can win at least 40% of those games. SOS without W's is useless and Porky is not buying that this roster is as talented as we all want it to be and on the precipice of consistently being a Top 25 program. The coaching staff as it's currently configured doesn't give Porky much confidence either but is hoping talent will overcome the staff's deficiencies. Nothing would make Porky happier than to be dead wrong about this come next March but recent history does not provide much comfort. Thoughts?
The last time we had a tough schedule in anticipation of a quality team was Buzz last year. We ended up on the wrong end of some close games and it obviously hurt our team come tournament time. So yes there is an element of risk. That said, this type of schedule increases the number of chances to put a quality win on the board. The selection committee seems to be putting a lot of emphasis on quality wins, so this schedule provides the pathway necessary.
At the end of the day the coaches have the best view to where we stand, where the conference as a whole stands and they would not have made this type of schedule without some degree of enhanced confidence in the team and understanding of our relative position in the conference.
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Grate bein' firm, aina?
Long as it don't last more than 4 hours, doc.
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The last time we had a tough schedule in anticipation of a quality team was Buzz last year. We ended up on the wrong end of some close games and it obviously hurt our team come tournament time. So yes there is an element of risk. That said, this type of schedule increases the number of chances to put a quality win on the board. The selection committee seems to be putting a lot of emphasis on quality wins, so this schedule provides the pathway necessary.
At the end of the day the coaches have the best view to where we stand, where the conference as a whole stands and they would not have made this type of schedule without some degree of enhanced confidence in the team and understanding of our relative position in the conference.
In Buzz's last year, we played 2 ranked teams in non-con: No. 10 Ohio State and No. 8 Wisconsin. Lost both. Also played a San Diego State team that wasn't ranked but would go on to have a fine season. Lost to 'em. Played a good New Mexico team that made the NCAAs (but lost in the first round). Lost to 'em. The only other decent team we played was Arizona State, who finished 10-8 in a meh Pac-12. Lost to them, too. The rest of the schedule was populated with Southerns and Gramblings and IUPUIs.
So if this year's non-con really is on a par with that one, I hope our lads take care of business better than Buzz's 0-5 showing against good teams.
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In Buzz's last year, we played 2 ranked teams in non-con: No. 10 Ohio State and No. 8 Wisconsin. Lost both. Also played a San Diego State team that wasn't ranked but would go on to have a fine season. Lost to 'em. Played a good New Mexico team that made the NCAAs (but lost in the first round). Lost to 'em. The only other decent team we played was Arizona State, who finished 10-8 in a meh Pac-12. Lost to them, too. The rest of the schedule was populated with Southerns and Gramblings and IUPUIs.
So if this year's non-con really is on a par with that one, I hope our lads take care of business better than Buzz's 0-5 showing against good teams.
I think the character, chemistry and make up of this year’s team is much different than that of Buzz’s last team are night and day.
Wojo and staff obviously believe that there is a ton of talent on this roster and want to challenge them and that is what we have been asking for for 5 years now. If Wojo wants to embrace it, then we should as well. Next two years should be really entertaining.
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I love the NC schedule, regardless of outcome. It is going be a good test for the squad and will definitely make the team better down the road. I never would question a schedule being too difficult. Every year I am jealous of other programs having big time NC match ups. While these are not true big time match ups, it is a big step in the right direction.
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I think the character, chemistry and make up of this year’s team is much different than that of Buzz’s last team are night and day.
Wojo and staff obviously believe that there is a ton of talent on this roster and want to challenge them and that is what we have been asking for for 5 years now. If Wojo wants to embrace it, then we should as well. Next two years should be really entertaining.
Agree on all of the above.
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In Buzz's last year, we played 2 ranked teams in non-con: No. 10 Ohio State and No. 8 Wisconsin. Lost both. Also played a San Diego State team that wasn't ranked but would go on to have a fine season. Lost to 'em. Played a good New Mexico team that made the NCAAs (but lost in the first round). Lost to 'em. The only other decent team we played was Arizona State, who finished 10-8 in a meh Pac-12. Lost to them, too. The rest of the schedule was populated with Southerns and Gramblings and IUPUIs.
So if this year's non-con really is on a par with that one, I hope our lads take care of business better than Buzz's 0-5 showing against good teams.
Geez, I forgot how bad that schedule was. I went back and looked, we played FIVE sub 300 RPI opponents...and a sixth who was ranked 285th. No wonder our computer numbers were so bad....well that and going 1-5 against the significant opponents (George Washington made the NCAAs that year as a 9 seed).
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I love the NC schedule, regardless of outcome. It is going be a good test for the squad and will definitely make the team better down the road. I never would question a schedule being too difficult. Every year I am jealous of other programs having big time NC match ups. While these are not true big time match ups, it is a big step in the right direction.
Blue Blooded Kansas, Louisville, and Indiana as well as top 15 Tennessee and Kansas State not big time enough for you?
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TAMU,
I like the schedule. Based off our post last week on potential point spreads, IU and Louisville are not the blue bloods of the past. Again, I am quite happy with the schedule.
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Heck, I think we may know whether this team is ready for Prime Time by the time we chow down on turkey in late November.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that Coach Wojo needs a full year and I'm firmly in his camp. But, if we're at a losing record by the time we play the Badgers and our defense is still shaky, then I think when the NCAA Tournament Committee convenes in March to select, we better have blown through the Big East schedule and wasted Villanova at least once or we're going to be seeing three nasty letters: N-I-T again!
If this team is in the NIT, Wojo's seat will be legitimately hot.
But I also could see this team with 3 or 4 losses by the time they play Wisconsin. That doesn't mean this team won't be playing in the NCAAs, though. But 75% of Scoop will still be calling for Wojo's head even if all three losses are to top 10 caliber teams (Kansas, Tennessee, K State), and a potential road loss at a talented Indiana team. Obviously I hope (and think we can) win some of those games, but this team isn't going to be 12-0 at the end of December.
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I love the NC schedule, regardless of outcome. It is going be a good test for the squad and will definitely make the team better down the road. I never would question a schedule being too difficult. Every year I am jealous of other programs having big time NC match ups. While these are not true big time match ups, it is a big step in the right direction.
I'm confused. Is there a year or team you can reference to get an idea of the schedule you would like? Or maybe how many high majors and good mid majors?
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Hurler,
You are confused? What about me? I have said multiple times that I am excited for the NC schedule.
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Hurler,
You are confused? What about me? I have said multiple times that I am excited for the NC schedule.
the statement step in the right direction would imply you're happy because it's better than previous years but still not what you would like. So I am confused because this is the best schedule I recal since I started following MUBB so I was wondering if you could reference a year or ideal schedule so I could get a better idea of what the end point of the right direction would look like.
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the statement step in the right direction would imply you're happy because it's better than previous years but still not what you would like. So I am confused because this is the best schedule I recal since I started following MUBB so I was wondering if you could reference a year or ideal schedule so I could get a better idea of what the end point of the right direction would look like.
Sounds like he's looking for the type of schedule Michigan State usually plays.
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J5 and Hurler
You can pick apart all of my posts and try and point out negatives. I really do not care. The NC is quite good, and I have noted that several times. If every year was similar, I would not have a gripe.
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J5 and Hurler
You can pick apart all of my posts and try and point out negatives. I really do not care. The NC is quite good, and I have noted that several times. If every year was similar, I would not have a gripe.
I wasn't trying to. I think you read the wrong emotion in my post...
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Hurler
I would not call the NC schedule one for the ages, but definitely not playing a slew of stiffs. Hence, my calling it a step in the right direction. If that direction remains the same moving forward, it is a good NC slate. Someone noted KO's NC schedule in year two and it was very tough. That said, it brought some excitement to BC in December.
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TAMU,
I like the schedule. Based off our post last week on potential point spreads, IU and Louisville are not the blue bloods of the past. Again, I am quite happy with the schedule.
I'm still confused as to how Kansas...a blue blood and a projected top 5 team this season is not a "big time matchup" as you put it. I would argue that the others I mentioned could also be considered big time matchups but could understand why others would disagree. Kansas I would argue is the biggest of the big time matchups next season other than maybe Kentucky.
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TAMU
If you want to push it further, I am fine with that. Quite honestly, MU, at this point, is not a national big time opponent for anyone. I love the fact we are playing Kansas, but would love it more if we were a top ten team. In my world, big time match up is game that both sides of the same to lose. MU against Kansas, hardly the same stakes for both teams.
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TAMU
If you want to push it further, I am fine with that. Quite honestly, MU, at this point, is not a national big time opponent for anyone. I love the fact we are playing Kansas, but would love it more if we were a top ten team. In my world, big time match up is game that both sides of the same to lose. MU against Kansas, hardly the same stakes for both teams.
Ah, I see what you are saying now. I was just confused because I thought you were commenting on the quality of our opponents, not on our own quality.
I certainly won't argue that our game against Kansas is even on their fan's radar. But from what I have seen, Indiana and Kansas State fans are very excited to be playing us and we will be one of the biggest names that they will have on their schedule this season.
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Kansas is the probable #1 team to start the season. Tennessee is most likely at worst top-10. K State not far behind. IU, Louisville, Wisconsin, Indiana, and Buffalo are all going to be in the mix for postseason play.
Those are all probable top-75 kenpom opponents. Of the typical bluebloods, that's more than Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Villanova, Arizona, or Michigan State played last year and equal to the 6 that North Carolina played.
Will there be tougher schedules? Maybe. Probably. But it's the equal of pretty much any blue blood in the country.
I'm very curious, based strictly on what we know now, what more anyone could ask and what past schedule (not just MU but any program) should be the model we strive for.
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TAMU
OK, not sure how you were confused on my feelings regarding our opponents. Said multiple times, I really like the NC schedule.
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Blue Blooded Kansas, Louisville, and Indiana as well as top 15 Tennessee and Kansas State not big time enough for you?
This Who the heck do you want us to play The Cavs?, Warriors?
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This Who the heck do you want us to play The Cavs?, Warriors?
They play the warriors during every team scrimmage
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OK, not sure how you were confused on my feelings regarding our opponents. Said multiple times, I really like the NC schedule.
I think it's this aspect...
I would not call the NC schedule one for the ages, but definitely not playing a slew of stiffs. Hence, my calling it a step in the right direction.
As noted, there are potentially three top-15 opponents and six tournament contenders. As far as the names on the jerseys across from us, I'm not sure what more MU could be expected to do. Now taking this into account...
Quite honestly, MU, at this point, is not a national big time opponent for anyone. I love the fact we are playing Kansas, but would love it more if we were a top ten team.
...makes more sense if you mean that the problem with the schedule is less who we are playing and more who we are. If the problem is that Marquette isn't as far along (which ties nicely back to the original post and thread title question) then I see where you are coming from, but I think it's a question of clarifying that any qualms you have is not with the opposition, but with the perception of Marquette nationally. I think we all hope this year is when we finally get back to being that type of team. We'll see if it pans out or not, but on paper, there's a lot to like.
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brew
To be honest, I get bashed for being negative on the progress of the program and worded my posts not to come across negative MU. Only a fxxkin idiot could bash the teams on the schedule. My hope is, that in a couple of years the games are as big to the opposition as it is to MU and the fan base.
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The schedule is soft IMO...I wish we would be able to get out of the automatic game against the mid-major of UW-Madison. Maybe switch it out with UW-Green Bay or UWM
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I'm confused. Is there a year or team you can reference to get an idea of the schedule you would like? Or maybe how many high majors and good mid majors?
Michigan State every year
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brew
To be honest, I get bashed for being negative on the progress of the program and worded my posts not to come across negative MU. Only a fxxkin idiot could bash the teams on the schedule. My hope is, that in a couple of years the games are as big to the opposition as it is to MU and the fan base.
I agree wholeheartedly. I like this schedule because I think it's the best way to show early if what Wojo has been building toward is going to work. I hope it does, but still have some skepticism, mainly because of the defense. If we end up tallying 5-6 losses in non-con, the pitchforks will be out before the calendar turns to 2019.
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Don't get me wrong, this is a fantastic schedule compared to most years for MU. That being said, it would be nice, even if only for one year, to beef up the home schedule. Now, if KU and UL and Tennessee(or even two of the 3), were at home...NOW you are talking. Buffalo is decent, but they are not in the upper echelon of CBB...get some "heavy hitters" at home and I think everyone would be happy.
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Don't get me wrong, this is a fantastic schedule compared to most years for MU. That being said, it would be nice, even if only for one year, to beef up the home schedule. Now, if KU and UL and Tennessee(or even two of the 3), were at home...NOW you are talking. Buffalo is decent, but they are not in the upper echelon of CBB...get some "heavy hitters" at home and I think everyone would be happy.
There's nothing wrong with getting home games like that, although I imagine it would be difficult to get those teams to come, but if you get 3+ top 15 home games a year, you are bound to lose a couple, which would lead certain people to bash the program saying that we never defend home court as well as we should. It's kinda hard to have it both ways.
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Don't get me wrong, this is a fantastic schedule compared to most years for MU. That being said, it would be nice, even if only for one year, to beef up the home schedule. Now, if KU and UL and Tennessee(or even two of the 3), were at home...NOW you are talking. Buffalo is decent, but they are not in the upper echelon of CBB...get some "heavy hitters" at home and I think everyone would be happy.
Kansas State is at least top 20 this season. You also get Wisconsin and Buffalo, both top 40ish teams this season.
While I'm sure there's a few out there, I don't think there are many teams who will be able to claim three better home games in their non-conference schedule this season.
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Don't get me wrong, this is a fantastic schedule compared to most years for MU. That being said, it would be nice, even if only for one year, to beef up the home schedule. Now, if KU and UL and Tennessee(or even two of the 3), were at home...NOW you are talking. Buffalo is decent, but they are not in the upper echelon of CBB...get some "heavy hitters" at home and I think everyone would be happy.
The BE/B12 Challenge would be ideal and would add a multi-year, counter-balance to the Super Conferences. Both conferences are historically Top 3 in KPom.
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We should play home-and-homes against the NBA Western Conference playoff teams. The East sucks, so screw them. I wouldn't want to make that crybaby LeBron whine after Bailey dominates him anyway.
Otherwise, step down a level and play Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky and Michigan State at home.
Maybe road games against UCLA and Notre Dame.
We still need to play at least one cupcake, so F%cky can stay on the schedule.
That would be a good start. We could then beef up the schedule a little the following year.
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Haven't really read thru the thread...but I think tough competition is great...we risk a poorer record sure...but the potential is there for top 20 consideration and staying there the whole season. We're not Long Beach or Oakland who have a decent team but over-schedule tough.....We can win these games. Glory awaits the Golden Eagles!
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Are the present students able to handle the notoriety of having a Top 20 program and conduct themselves appropriately......Like showing up??????
"I am so scared......I need to share my feeling on Facebook for an hour"........Really????
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Are the present students able to handle the notoriety of having a Top 20 program and conduct themselves appropriately......Like showing up??????
"I am so scared......I need to share my feeling on Facebook for an hour"........Really????
Statistically speaking Facebook has aged out of the current college age group. It's primarily used by older gen x and younger baby boomers now. So given your attitude toward it you're likely more in the demographic that needs to share your feelings on there for an hour.
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Are the present students able to handle the notoriety of having a Top 20 program and conduct themselves appropriately......Like showing up??????
"I am so scared......I need to share my feeling on Facebook for an hour"........Really????
Literally WTF are you talking about
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Literally WTF are you talking about
It's what every generation does when talking about the next generation. I remember growing up and hearing how us Gen Xers were just a bunch of slackers who smoked pot and would never amount to anything. Now the Millenials are all social media addicted snowflakes who will never amount to anything. I imagine the Baby Boomers were once viewed as rock 'n roll addicted miscreants who would never amount to anything. They probably said the same of the Silent Generation and Greatest Generation before them.
I'm sure in the next couple years we'll start hearing the same criticisms about the iGen kids (even ones like the Parkland kids) and whatever label they end up attaching to kids like my daughter that are being born now. It's just what aging generations do to make themselves feel relevant. Probably more accurate to assess a generation when its nearing its end than before its zenith. Like saying the Baby Boomers are a bunch of government-teat sucking wretches that are going to bankrupt Social Security, tanked the economy due to repeated dalliances with trickle down economics, and the first generation in this country that truly left the world worse than they found it.
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That was very wide open. There is a always truth too both side of that.
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It's what every generation does when talking about the next generation. I remember growing up and hearing how us Gen Xers were just a bunch of slackers who smoked pot and would never amount to anything. Now the Millenials are all social media addicted snowflakes who will never amount to anything. I imagine the Baby Boomers were once viewed as rock 'n roll addicted miscreants who would never amount to anything. They probably said the same of the Silent Generation and Greatest Generation before them.
I'm sure in the next couple years we'll start hearing the same criticisms about the iGen kids (even ones like the Parkland kids) and whatever label they end up attaching to kids like my daughter that are being born now. It's just what aging generations do to make themselves feel relevant.
Exactly true, brew.
And I hate to break it to you, but your daughter is a diaper-addicted, Goodnight Moon-lovin' slacker who will never amount to anything.
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It's what every generation does when talking about the next generation. I remember growing up and hearing how us Gen Xers were just a bunch of slackers who smoked pot and would never amount to anything. Now the Millenials are all social media addicted snowflakes who will never amount to anything. I imagine the Baby Boomers were once viewed as rock 'n roll addicted miscreants who would never amount to anything. They probably said the same of the Silent Generation and Greatest Generation before them.
I'm sure in the next couple years we'll start hearing the same criticisms about the iGen kids (even ones like the Parkland kids) and whatever label they end up attaching to kids like my daughter that are being born now. It's just what aging generations do to make themselves feel relevant. Probably more accurate to assess a generation when its nearing its end than before its zenith. Like saying the Baby Boomers are a bunch of government-teat sucking wretches that are going to bankrupt Social Security, tanked the economy due to repeated dalliances with trickle down economics, and the first generation in this country that truly left the world worse than they found it.
igen is generation Z. Most definitions say they're the post 1995 generation and the individuals most crotchety old folks like burger are referring to when they say millenials but are actually clueless
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Exactly true, brew.
And I hate to break it to you, but your daughter is a diaper-addicted, Goodnight Moon-lovin' slacker who will never amount to anything.
Goodnight Moon is the most overrated baby book
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I don't know. It seems like we have a bunch of old women here whispering 'hush'.
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That was very wide open. There is a always truth too both side of that.
Yup. It was a deliberate overgeneralization just like the nonsensical post burger made.
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I for one am STOKED for this NC. We need a NC schedule like this. We don't need to win them all, we just need to play well and show something. I'm most concerned about the Kstate game. I think it will be one of those "make or break" games for the fan base that comes to games. Win that game and people will come the rest of the season. (Ie 2 years ago, games were half empty, we beat nova and all of a sudden the rest of home games were almost sell outs).
And also I'm between 10 and 49 years old so I'm a Millenial per media and everyone. Literally anyone who makes any decision that an older person doesn't like is met with "you're a millenial" I can't handle any more "millenials killed..." articles. Get over yourselves. You killed the environment with 2 mile per gallon cars. Thanks a lot.
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The conference schedule doesn't come out until after Labor Day weekend. What we have in Wisconsin, Kansas State, Buffalo and the tournament darling besides Loyola, in UMBC coming to the sparkling new arena is outstanding! Also, four Saturday home games before Christmas break for the students. When have we had that before? Who can't be pumped!
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People whine if the OC schedule is too easy. People whine if the OC schedule is too hard. People like to whine. This is a challenging OC schedule, the most challenging in some time. If the team is who we think they are in our more optimistic moments, they will be fine. If the team is less than what we are hoping for, there will be more whining.
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You killed the environment with 2 mile per gallon cars. Thanks a lot.
Chinese hoax.
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People whine if the OC schedule is too easy. People whine if the OC schedule is too hard. People like to whine. This is a challenging OC schedule, the most challenging in some time. If the team is who we think they are in our more optimistic moments, they will be fine. If the team is less than what we are hoping for, there will be more whining.
Rest assured, there will be whining unless this team goes 32-0. And even then, a select few would still whine.
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Rest assured, there will be whining unless this team goes 32-0. And even then, a select few would still whine.
The only way there won't be whining is if this team goes 40-0 and every game is a shutout.
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Rest assured, there will be whining unless this team goes 32-0. And even then, a select few would still whine.
Well we should have won some of those games by more! We should win every game by at least 20 or else Wojo gets the hot seat
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tower
I have not read all the posts on here, but I did not think anyone whined about the NC schedule. Actually, I thought this was a topic that almost everyone agreed on. Maybe, you and others, just want to post about people whining.
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The only way there won't be whining is if this team goes 40-0 and every game is a shutout.
Then we didn't play a hard enough schedule or we didn't play our classic rivals during that season. Where there's a will there's a way
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tower
I have not read all the posts on here, but I did not think anyone whined about the NC schedule. Actually, I thought this was a topic that almost everyone agreed on. Maybe, you and others, just want to post about people whining.
Goose, the OP 's premise was that the schedule was too hard.
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Well we should have won some of those games by more! We should win every game by at least 20 or else Wojo gets the hot seat
Slaps of five and Backyard BBQ dates/menu will still need significant improvement. Unacceptable frankly!
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Tower,
I have not idea who the guy the started the thread is and really only care about the regulars on here. Of folks I respect, seems like all on board with the NC schedule.
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I think we all agree that this years Non-Con is great no matter what the remaining scheduled games are. It's just we are 136 days away from Marquette Madness and we are all bored
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Tower,
I have not idea who the guy the started the thread is and really only care about the regulars on here. Of folks I respect, seems like all on board with the NC schedule.
I'm excited for it. If the team is as talented as we think, it will be a fun year.
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I think we all agree that this years Non-Con is great no matter what the remaining scheduled games
Most likely... But with 5 games left to be announced it could still turn on us. 5 more southern type opponents could undo all the good the rest if the schedule does for our computer numbers
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Most likely... But with 5 games left to be announced it could still turn on us. 5 more southern type opponents could undo all the good the rest if the schedule does for our computer numbers
Exactly. If we have a handful of very difficult games, but a handful of 4-win opponents, the NC will be dumb & dangerous.
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Most likely... But with 5 games left to be announced it could still turn on us. 5 more southern type opponents could undo all the good the rest if the schedule does for our computer numbers
The juiciest would be teams like last year's NC Central (kp 316; 19 wins), NC A&T (kp 309; 20 wins), Grambling (kp 295; 17 wins), and Bethune Cookman (kp 288; 18 wins)
Cupcakes in reality, so nice tune-ups for the newcomers, but their win totals in terrible conferences won't be a total drag on the RPI
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We finally have a full roster and size, I'm sure they will be a good team and make for an exciting year.
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The juiciest would be teams like last year's NC Central (kp 316; 19 wins), NC A&T (kp 309; 20 wins), Grambling (kp 295; 17 wins), and Bethune Cookman (kp 288; 18 wins)
Cupcakes in reality, so nice tune-ups for the newcomers, but their win totals in terrible conferences won't be a total drag on the RPI
I'd prefer something in the 100-200 range, like:
Coll of Charleston
Georgia St
Wofford
Furman
Louisiana-Layfayette
Radford
Monmouth
However, I agree that as long as they are in the top one or two of their conference, we'll be gucci.
I expect at least one of the remaining four to be a total dog, but hope they aim high with the rest.
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I'm excited for it. If the team is as talented as we think, it will be a fun year.
NBC Sports apparently shares Porky’s skepticism.
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/5/22/big-east-conference-reset-perennial-powers-must-reload/
Don’t get Porky wrong......the non con schedule is great and can’t be too strong, she’s just not convinced next season’s team is up to the challenge. Here’s to hoping Porky (and NBC Sports) is dead wrong!
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NBC Sports apparently share’s Porky’s skepticism.
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/5/22/big-east-conference-reset-perennial-powers-must-reload/
Don’t get Porky wrong......the non con schedule is great and can’t be too strong, he’s just non convinced next season’s team is up to the challenge. Here’s to hoping Porky (and NBC Sports) is dead wrong!
Lol. 8th??? Not a chance.
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Xavier Non Con pretty strong even compared to ours IMO.
• Thursday, Nov. 1: TBD exhibition opponent
• Tuesday, Nov. 6: IUPUI
• Saturday, Nov. 10: Evansville
• Tuesday, Nov. 13: Wisconsin (Gavitt Tipoff Games)
• Monday, Nov. 19: Maui Jim Maui Invitational (in Hawaii).
• Tuesday, Nov. 20: Maui Jim Maui Invitational (in Hawaii).
• Wednesday, Nov. 21: Maui Jim Maui Invitational (in Hawaii).
• Wednesday, Nov. 28: Miami (Ohio)
• Saturday, Dec. 1: Oakland
• Wednesday, Dec. 5: Ohio University
• Saturday, Dec. 8: Skyline Chili Crosstown Shootout at Cincinnati
• Saturday, Dec. 15: Eastern Kentucky
•Tuesday, Dec. 18: at Missouri
• Friday, Dec. 21: Detroit Mercy
*Maui Invitational Games will be played against a field that includes Duke, Arizona, Gonzaga, Auburn, San Diego State, Illinois and Iowa State.
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Xavier Non Con pretty strong even compared to ours IMO.
• Thursday, Nov. 1: TBD exhibition opponent
• Tuesday, Nov. 6: IUPUI
• Saturday, Nov. 10: Evansville
• Tuesday, Nov. 13: Wisconsin (Gavitt Tipoff Games)
• Monday, Nov. 19: Maui Jim Maui Invitational (in Hawaii).
• Tuesday, Nov. 20: Maui Jim Maui Invitational (in Hawaii).
• Wednesday, Nov. 21: Maui Jim Maui Invitational (in Hawaii).
• Wednesday, Nov. 28: Miami (Ohio)
• Saturday, Dec. 1: Oakland
• Wednesday, Dec. 5: Ohio University
• Saturday, Dec. 8: Skyline Chili Crosstown Shootout at Cincinnati
• Saturday, Dec. 15: Eastern Kentucky
•Tuesday, Dec. 18: at Missouri
• Friday, Dec. 21: Detroit Mercy
*Maui Invitational Games will be played against a field that includes Duke, Arizona, Gonzaga, Auburn, San Diego State, Illinois and Iowa State.
If they can have a Skyline Chili Crosstown Shootout, why isn't their a Real Chili Invitational.
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If I had to bet $1000 and had only these choices
1. Finish 1-3
2 finish 8-10
I would pick 1 ....and it wouldn't be a difficult choice.
I'm not a typically a huge homer either.
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If they can have a Skyline Chili Crosstown Shootout, why isn't their a Real Chili Invitational.
*there
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MuMark - agreed.
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NBC Sports apparently shares Porky’s skepticism.
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/5/22/big-east-conference-reset-perennial-powers-must-reload/
Don’t get Porky wrong......the non con schedule is great and can’t be too strong, she’s just not convinced next season’s team is up to the challenge. Here’s to hoping Porky (and NBC Sports) is dead wrong!
I had never heard heard of Travis Hines before this article. So I researched him and found out he works for the Ames Tribune. He is also a college basketball "contributor" for NBC Sports.
So, uh, hmm...Well he has an opinion and NBC Sports was willing to publish it because you can never have enough content on the internet. But I wouldn't exactly call this article insightful.
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NBC Sports apparently shares Porky’s skepticism.
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/5/22/big-east-conference-reset-perennial-powers-must-reload/
Don’t get Porky wrong......the non con schedule is great and can’t be too strong, she’s just not convinced next season’s team is up to the challenge. Here’s to hoping Porky (and NBC Sports) is dead wrong!
So he thinks Markus will be BE POY....but we will finish 8th? Markus isn't even the best player on our team.
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So he thinks Markus will be BE POY....but we will finish 8th? Markus isn't even the best player on our team.
There is a reason why Matty has gone undercover...
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If I had to bet $1000 and had only these choices
1. Finish 1-3
2 finish 8-10
I would pick 1 ....and it wouldn't be a difficult choice.
I'm not a typically a huge homer either.
The most likely thing would be that you would lose a bet on either one of these. However, I agree option 1 is more likely than option 2.
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NBC Sports apparently shares Porky’s skepticism.
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/5/22/big-east-conference-reset-perennial-powers-must-reload/
Don’t get Porky wrong......the non con schedule is great and can’t be too strong, she’s just not convinced next season’s team is up to the challenge. Here’s to hoping Porky (and NBC Sports) is dead wrong!
Don't get MU82 wrong.......he's just not convinced people who refer to themselves in the third person have an IQ above 68.
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Don't get MU82 wrong.......he's just not convinced people who refer to themselves in the third person have an IQ above 68.
I think she has a very high IQ.
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I think she has a very high IQ.
You didn't do it right, 9-9-9. Can't use "I." Learn the rules, pal!!
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Don't get MU82 wrong.......he's just not convinced people who refer to themselves in the third person have an IQ above 68.
Yup. 82 vacations in Mexico. The bulb burns dim.
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The most likely thing would be that you would lose a bet on either one of these. However, I agree option 1 is more likely than option 2.
Next season I think option 1 is more likely than losing either bet.
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Goodnight Moon is the most overrated baby book
+1,000. It's not good.
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Yup. 82 vacations in Mexico. The bulb burns dim.
Huh?
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Yes, the schedule is too advanced for our talent. At least early on. It would be ideal to have more teams in that 30 to 50 range instead of top 30. A team like Buffalo doesn't do much for the non-college fan. A team like Kansas State doesn't do too much, either, but sure beats some buy game.
But, so what. This is what we want. The team will be challenged early and often. They are veteran enough to not have their egos crushed if they lose more than they should. They should not be coddled like a coach has to do with some younger teams.
As fans, this is what we want for the program. For exposure, this is what we want. For selling tickets, this is what we want (but Kansas State is a really good team, I'd rather have a big name that isn't quite so good or a hugh name that is really good, but we take what we can schedule). For recruiting, this is what we want. At this point I'd rather have the coaching staff error on the side of too hard than too easy. Time to challenge everyone including themselves.
It is great to be in a position to think we can win some of these and compete in most or all of these games. I say bring it on, even if the schedule has a couple more top teams than is ideal early in the season.
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Yes, the schedule is too advanced for our talent. At least early on. It would be ideal to have more teams in that 30 to 50 range instead of top 30. A team like Buffalo doesn't do much for the non-college fan. A team like Kansas State doesn't do too much, either, but sure beats some buy game.
But, so what. This is what we want. The team will be challenged early and often. They are veteran enough to not have their egos crushed if they lose more than they should. They should not be coddled like a coach has to do with some younger teams.
As fans, this is what we want for the program. For exposure, this is what we want. For selling tickets, this is what we want (but Kansas State is a really good team, I'd rather have a big name that isn't quite so good or a hugh name that is really good, but we take what we can schedule). For recruiting, this is what we want. At this point I'd rather have the coaching staff error on the side of too hard than too easy. Time to challenge everyone including themselves.
It is great to be in a position to think we can win some of these and compete in most or all of these games. I say bring it on, even if the schedule has a couple more top teams than is ideal early in the season.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't top 30 the cutoff for Q1 home games? We won't have the benefit of having 9 conference Q1 games, so getting as many in the non-conference if preferable IMO. We're an old enough team where I don't think it makes a huge difference between playing a good team in December vs March (We'll obviously be better in March, but we should be much better December '18 vs December '17) so I don't think the tough competition early on will be as big of an issue as you think it will.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't top 30 the cutoff for Q1 home games? We won't have the benefit of having 9 conference Q1 games, so getting as many in the non-conference if preferable IMO. We're an old enough team where I don't think it makes a huge difference between playing a good team in December vs March (We'll obviously be better in March, but we should be much better December '18 vs December '17) so I don't think the tough competition early on will be as big of an issue as you think it will.
My hope is this team is good enough that the quadrants are pretty much irrelevant.
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My hope is this team is good enough that the quadrants are pretty much irrelevant.
Only way quadrants are irrelevant is if we get a 1 seed which aint happening. It varies year to year, but there can be a pretty fine line between seeds, you can't know in May what an extra Q1 game will mean next March.
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Yes, the schedule is too advanced for our talent. At least early on. It would be ideal to have more teams in that 30 to 50 range instead of top 30. A team like Buffalo doesn't do much for the non-college fan. A team like Kansas State doesn't do too much, either, but sure beats some buy game.
I am pretty confident the "non college fan" is not watching regular season hoops, so not sure what you mean by that. Buffalo is a good opponent, and Kansas State is an excellent game for MU. The schedule is the best NC in a very long time.
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Only way quadrants are irrelevant is if we get a 1 seed which aint happening. It varies year to year, but there can be a pretty fine line between seeds, you can't know in May what an extra Q1 game will mean next March.
Ehh. If you're a top 25 team in a major conference, you're not going to be worrying about quadrants come Selection Sunday.
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Ehh. If you're a top 25 team in a major conference, you're not going to be worrying about quadrants come Selection Sunday.
If you care about seeding you will, if you only care about getting a bid you won't.
If we get a bid, and another team that has a resume on par with ours and gets a higher bid I can guarantee that there will be complaining here. Unless you're getting a 1 seed, you can always have a better resume. More Q1 games/wins makes a better resume.
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If you care about seeding you will, if you only care about getting a bid you won't.
If we get a bid, and another team that has a resume on par with ours and gets a higher bid I can guarantee that there will be complaining here. Unless you're getting a 1 seed, you can always have a better resume. More Q1 games/wins makes a better resume.
Michigan State had 3 Q1 wins last season and got a 3 seed.
In general, I agree with you. Its always better to have better wins as opposed to not better wins. A better resume is better than a not better resume. But we should have a team that is safely in the field next season and we're not worrying about other teams falling out of bottom end Q1 status and into top end Q2 status in February and March. I honestly don't think the committee gives a crap about the difference between an RPI 25 - RPI 35 team. The quadrants are just a metric and a way of grouping teams to try and be more transparent about how the committee values wins and losses. They aren't knocking a team because they lost a Q1 win just before the NCAA tourney because someone they beat in non-con lost a game in their conference tourney to drop them from a Q1 neutral court win to a Q2 win.
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Michigan State had 3 Q1 wins last season and got a 3 seed.
Are you trying to say that their resume couldn't have been improved? It's pretty hard to dispute that more Q1 wins make a better resume and a better resume increases your chance at a higher seed.
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Are you trying to say that their resume couldn't have been improved? It's pretty hard to dispute that more Q1 wins make a better resume and a better resume increases your chance at a higher seed.
See above.
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It's what every generation does when talking about the next generation. I remember growing up and hearing how us Gen Xers were just a bunch of slackers who smoked pot and would never amount to anything. Now the Millenials are all social media addicted snowflakes who will never amount to anything. I imagine the Baby Boomers were once viewed as rock 'n roll addicted miscreants who would never amount to anything. They probably said the same of the Silent Generation and Greatest Generation before them.
I'm sure in the next couple years we'll start hearing the same criticisms about the iGen kids (even ones like the Parkland kids) and whatever label they end up attaching to kids like my daughter that are being born now. It's just what aging generations do to make themselves feel relevant. Probably more accurate to assess a generation when its nearing its end than before its zenith. Like saying the Baby Boomers are a bunch of government-teat sucking wretches that are going to bankrupt Social Security, tanked the economy due to repeated dalliances with trickle down economics, and the first generation in this country that truly left the world worse than they found it.
Speak of the devil, this podcast ep just came out today:
https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-38-the-medias-bogus-generation-obsession
Many of the same things Brew is talking about
Anyway, can't wait to see the last 4 additions to the OOC schedule!
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See above.
For the most part I agree with you, but with all the new metrics and different rankings that value different things, the smallest of margins can be the difference between seed lines and/or travel locations. Any advantage we can have to get a better seed/better location to play in, should be taken advantage of. If that means playing the 29th ranked team instead of the 31st ranked team I'm all for it.
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Anyway, can't wait to see the last 4 additions to the OOC schedule!
If this is correct: http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/marq-m-baskbl-sched.html we get five more additions to the OOC schedule. Actually filling up the schedule this season.
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Huh?
See Mexico thread;)
On a related note but not just 82, is it the full moon or are folks so hooked on teal lately, like opiates, they have turned off their sarcasm-o-meters? It's the first summer holiday approaching folks...unbutton that top button and breath the fresh air. Posters seem a little too literal and serious lately.
Seashells and balloons. Beef and cheddars.
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See Mexico thread;)
On a related note but not just 82, is it the full moon or are folks so hooked on teal lately, like opiates, they have turned off their sarcasm-o-meters? It's the first summer holiday approaching folks...unbutton that top button and breath the fresh air. Posters seem a little too literal and serious lately.
Seashells and balloons. Beef and cheddars.
Well, I went to Mexico because my daughter got married there. Even those most concerned about the violence didn't seem to think I should have insisted that my daughter cancel her wedding.
Agree about teal. I never use it. Like to keep folks thinkin'!
I understand why some use it. Sarcasm sometimes doesn't come out as intended in these kinds of threads. But some folks use it for everything, even the obvious.
teal=heroin!
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If this is correct: http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/marq-m-baskbl-sched.html we get five more additions to the OOC schedule. Actually filling up the schedule this season.
Even better!
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Michigan State had 3 Q1 wins last season and got a 3 seed.
In general, I agree with you. Its always better to have better wins as opposed to not better wins. A better resume is better than a not better resume. But we should have a team that is safely in the field next season and we're not worrying about other teams falling out of bottom end Q1 status and into top end Q2 status in February and March. I honestly don't think the committee gives a crap about the difference between an RPI 25 - RPI 35 team. The quadrants are just a metric and a way of grouping teams to try and be more transparent about how the committee values wins and losses. They aren't knocking a team because they lost a Q1 win just before the NCAA tourney because someone they beat in non-con lost a game in their conference tourney to drop them from a Q1 neutral court win to a Q2 win.
Is your batter bitter? A bit of butter would make it better.
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If they can have a Skyline Chili Crosstown Shootout, why isn't their a Real Chili Invitational.
Was just thinking the same.
And it's cool they worked Skyline Chili into the Cincinnati rivalry. Does the winning team get a giant pot of chili?
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Michigan State had 3 Q1 wins last season and got a 3 seed.
I'm confused by this. Are you saying MSU should've been seeded higher based on body of work? Because they still had a losing Q1 record and 21 wins in Q3/4. I don't think there was anything wrong with their seed.
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I'm confused by this. Are you saying MSU should've been seeded higher based on body of work? Because they still had a losing Q1 record and 21 wins in Q3/4. I don't think there was anything wrong with their seed.
I think J5 was saying that quadrants don't matter as much once you get to the higher seeds and was quoting the fact that Michigan St only had 3 Q1 wins and still managed a 3 seed as an example.
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I think J5 was saying that quadrants don't matter as much once you get to the higher seeds and was quoting the fact that Michigan St only had 3 Q1 wins and still managed a 3 seed as an example.
This.
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I am pretty confident the "non college fan" is not watching regular season hoops, so not sure what you mean by that. Buffalo is a good opponent, and Kansas State is an excellent game for MU. The schedule is the best NC in a very long time.
Not complaining and the schedule is excellent. My minor point was that a non-MU fan is not going to get excited by Kansas State, even though they are going to be really good and a great opponent... but, an equally good team or even a bit worse with a bigger name than Kansas State would sell more tickets (which may not be a big deal this year with the new arena anyway). Only people that really pay attention to college ball will know that Kansas State is a good team; an equally good or worse UCLA team is a hugh game in Milwaukee. Kansas State isn't even though they are really good.
Again, a minor nitpick point. The schedule is great and you take what games you can get. I didn't mean for that to be a takeaway from my post.
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Not complaining and the schedule is excellent. My minor point was that a non-MU fan is not going to get excited by Kansas State, even though they are going to be really good and a great opponent... but, an equally good team or even a bit worse with a bigger name than Kansas State would sell more tickets (which may not be a big deal this year with the new arena anyway). Only people that really pay attention to college ball will know that Kansas State is a good team; an equally good or worse UCLA team is a hugh game in Milwaukee. Kansas State isn't even though they are really good.
Again, a minor nitpick point. The schedule is great and you take what games you can get. I didn't mean for that to be a takeaway from my post.
More of an indictment on those fans than that schedule.
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I think J5 was saying that quadrants don't matter as much once you get to the higher seeds and was quoting the fact that Michigan St only had 3 Q1 wins and still managed a 3 seed as an example.
I don't know, there was talk of Michigan State being a 1-seed going into the last week but their resume kept them off the top line. They were 4/5 in the polls and #6 in Pomeroy yet their schedule relegated them to the 3-line. I'd say it matters for everyone.
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Exactly true, brew.
And I hate to break it to you, but your daughter is a diaper-addicted, Goodnight Moon-lovin' slacker who will never amount to anything.
Yep. Too lazy to use the toilet or read her own books.
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Out of curiosity and sheer boredom, I wanted to see how the non-con opponents’ rankings compared to last season’s schedule.
For sake of argument, I used worst case scenario from an SOS perspective and assumed we will not meet Kansas in the preseason NIT.
So going by TRank (the only one with 2019 rankings that I felt like looking at), the 2019 pre-season and 2018 final rankings are as follows:
2019
Tennessee -- 12
Wisconsin -- 18
Indiana -- 19
Kansas St. -- 26
Louisville -- 36
Buffalo -- 84
UMBC -- 248
Southern -- 351
2018
Purdue -- 5
Wichita St. -- 26
Wisconsin -- 63
Georgia -- 64
LSU -- 66
Vermont -- 94
VCU -- 128
Mt. St. Marys -- 244
NIU -- 249
EIU -- 256
American -- 327
Chicago St. -- 345
The current 2019 aggregate ranking of the 8 opponents listed is 794 – an average ranking of 99.25.
The 2018 aggregate ranking of the top 7 plus Chicago St. (because that most closely mimics Southern, which is basically this year’s Chicago State. Worst of the worst.) is 791 – an average ranking of 98.88.
Which means to me what others have said already: that this year’s schedule is good… so far.
Not that TRank predictions are indicative of RPI, but if we round out the schedule with five EIUs and no VCUs, then it's possible our final RPI could be worse than last year.
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https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/999702603893272577?s=21
Is this is the NIT pairings?
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https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/999702603893272577?s=21
Is this is the NIT pairings?
Makes me think it's atleast a decent announcement? Because they definitely snuck southern into the schedule without making an announcement and can assume they would do the same if this next team was a low crummy team.
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Makes me think it's atleast a decent announcement? Because they definitely snuck southern into the schedule without making an announcement and can assume they would do the same if this next team was a low crummy team.
I'm guessing the NIT Tip-Off home games.
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Our defense will determine what kind of season we will have; not the schedule.
Couldn't have said it better.
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What happened to the schedule announcement yesterday?
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What happened to the schedule announcement yesterday?
If you consider the TBT alumni team to still be #mubb related then that was the news
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If you consider the TBT alumni team to still be #mubb related then that was the news
Yeah, I think that first tweet was a little misleading. Still the TBT news is cool
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I just hope we play all of the NC games we're allowed to because going 40-0 sounds a lot cooler than 39-0!
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If you consider the TBT alumni team to still be #mubb related then that was the news
The tweet said mubb scheduled related—this news is not that.
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Barry Brown WILL return for K State, making that matchup just that much tougher. At least it's at home.
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I just hope we play all of the NC games we're allowed to because going 40-0 sounds a lot cooler than 39-0!
We are. Confirmed by Mike Broeker, we'll be playing 13 non-con games.
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The tweet said mubb scheduled related—this news is not that.
That's why I said if you still consider them to be a part of the MUBB hashtag it would be that
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The tweet said mubb scheduled related—this news is not that.
Right.
Misleading indeed.
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Did Utah pull out of another home and home?
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We are. Confirmed by Mike Broeker, we'll be playing 13 non-con games.
Excellent.
40-and-oh, my friends!
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Did Utah pull out of another home and home?
Pulling out is the best way to avoid unwanted scheduling.
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Pulling out is the best way to avoid unwanted scheduling.
They're not supposed to pull out, hey?