MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on April 02, 2018, 07:42:50 AM

Title: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: tower912 on April 02, 2018, 07:42:50 AM
Where do Wright and Bielein rank?  Have they passed Izzo, K, Boeheim, Roy?  I think both have put themselves in the conversation.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 02, 2018, 08:03:03 AM
Bielein? Not past any of them. Wright? I think he is right up there with Izzo and Boeheim. K and Roy are on different levels.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: GGGG on April 02, 2018, 08:24:50 AM
If Nova wins tonight, Wright will join Williams and K as the only current coaches with multiple national championships.  (D1 men for the pedants out there.)
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU82 on April 02, 2018, 08:27:58 AM
The best coach?

You mean after Wojo?
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: 🏀 on April 02, 2018, 09:04:34 AM
(http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2009/03/20/stew.jpg)
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 02, 2018, 09:14:38 AM
Tower asked for best coaches,  not legendary ones
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: tower912 on April 02, 2018, 09:23:10 AM
Also, currently employed.     Bennett isn't there yet.    No tourney success.   I always worry about coaches who think they have the greatest new system.   Now Wright's system.... get 5 guys who can spread the floor, dribble, pass, shoot the 3, drive, defend.... that is the system I want to see copied.   
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: 🏀 on April 02, 2018, 09:40:59 AM
Tower asked for best coaches,  not legendary ones

My bad.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: lurch91 on April 02, 2018, 09:43:19 AM
If Wright wins tonight, he's one of the top 5 current coaches. If he loses, he's a tier lower.  I don't think Bielein is there yet, second finals but hasn't won it all.  Had good but not great teams at WVa.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: LAZER on April 02, 2018, 09:45:12 AM
Bielein? Not past any of them. Wright? I think he is right up there with Izzo and Boeheim. K and Roy are on different levels.
If Wright wins tonight I'd put him right up there with K and Roy and ahead of Izzo, Self, Boeheim.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: HutchwasClutch on April 02, 2018, 09:47:31 AM
Beilein doesn't have championship...yet, but he is highly underrated.  Has one big now at two major programs.  Michigan was not in healthy shape when he took over from Amaker. 
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 02, 2018, 09:50:33 AM
Wee willie warrior.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: jutaw22mu on April 02, 2018, 09:52:45 AM
I think Jay Wright is currently the best coach in the game.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: barfolomew on April 02, 2018, 10:06:49 AM
I think Jay Wright is currently the best coach in the game.

(http://i.imgur.com/Lau3enF.gif)
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 02, 2018, 10:09:16 AM
K  >>>  Wright, Deputy Dawg  >  Izzo, Boeheim  >  Self  >  [other really good coaches]*


* Big group, with guys like Huggy, Bennett, and others.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: cheebs09 on April 02, 2018, 10:14:14 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/Lau3enF.gif)

That’s such a great .gif. The “bang” as he shoots is awesome.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: Tha Hound on April 02, 2018, 10:16:19 AM
Also, currently employed.     Bennett isn't there yet.    No tourney success.   I always worry about coaches who think they have the greatest new system.   Now Wright's system.... get 5 guys who can spread the floor, dribble, pass, shoot the 3, drive, defend.... that is the system I want to see copied.

Ah yes, the old "have really good basketball players" system.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: GGGG on April 02, 2018, 10:17:51 AM
K  >>>  Wright, Deputy Dawg  >  Izzo, Boeheim  >  Self  >  [other really good coaches]*


* Big group, with guys like Huggy, Bennett, and others.


I don't know.  K seems to have devolved into "rolling the ball out there" mode.  I don't think he is all that different than Calipari or Self at this point.

Coaches like Wright and Beilein, and even guys like Bo and Roy Williams, recruit guys to their system and excel within that system.  To me that's more about coaching than just getting a bunch of NBA talent to play together.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 02, 2018, 10:18:17 AM
If Wright wins tonight I'd put him right up there with K and Roy and ahead of Izzo, Self, Boeheim.

K has 5 titles and 12 Final Fours
Roy has 3 titles and 9 Final Fours
If Jay wins, he'll have 2 titles and 3 Final Fours.

I like the guy,  but Wright has a long way to go before being considered right up there with K and Roy IMHO
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: Aughnanure on April 02, 2018, 10:24:56 AM
I usually like to think about this question by asking:

If you could hire any current college basketball to take over Marquette, who would you pick?

I always go to Self almost immediately. Huge winner, still pretty young so could be around for another 20 yrs easy. Wright is up there too with Bennett. Cal too.

Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: GGGG on April 02, 2018, 10:25:58 AM
K has 5 titles and 12 Final Fours
Roy has 3 titles and 9 Final Fours
If Jay wins, he'll have 2 titles and 3 Final Fours.

I like the guy,  but Wright has a long way to go before being considered right up there with K and Roy IMHO


The question is "who is currently the best men's basketball coach."  Not who is the most accomplished.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: HutchwasClutch on April 02, 2018, 10:27:09 AM
K has 5 titles and 12 Final Fours
Roy has 3 titles and 9 Final Fours
If Jay wins, he'll have 2 titles and 3 Final Fours.

I like the guy,  but Wright has a long way to go before being considered right up there with K and Roy IMHO

K and Roy have coached nothing but blue blood programs.  Nova is hardly a blue blood, and the program was not in good shape when he took it over.  K and Roy have been coaching their blue blood programs since early 80's (K) and late 80's (Roy).  Give Wright their longevity and see what the number comparisons look like.  It wasn't until '01 where he even got a shot at a program that can compete for FF and titles. 

He absolutely belongs with them.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 02, 2018, 10:28:36 AM

The question is "who is currently the best men's basketball coach."  Not who is the most accomplished.

Fair enough. In that case I backup PTMs submission of  Stew Morril  ;D
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 02, 2018, 10:33:00 AM
K and Roy have coached nothing but blue blood programs.  Nova is hardly a blue blood, and the program was not in good shape when he took it over.  K and Roy have been coaching their blue blood programs since early 80's (K) and late 80's (Roy).  Give Wright their longevity and see what the number comparisons look like.  It wasn't until '01 where he even got a shot at a program that can compete for FF and titles. 

He absolutely belongs with them.

That's all fine. I have no qualms with anyone who says Jay  Wright will be as good as or better than Roy and K in the future. I just prefer to see them actually earn it before declaring it.  Wright is young,  I have little doubt that he will get more final fours and titles before he is done. But I personally won't put him with Roy and K until he actually does it.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU82 on April 02, 2018, 10:33:41 AM

The question is "who is currently the best men's basketball coach."  Not who is the most accomplished.

I suppose. But the "best" could be some guy at Presbyterian or N.C. Central or a Division III program. He just hasn't had a chance to prove it on the national stage.

How will he get that chance? By accomplishing stuff.

"Best" is subjective, and requires the person making the call to use his/her own set of criteria.

Is "best" based purely on X's and O's during games? Ego management? Ability to prepare a team in practice? Recruiting? History of success? Probability of future success?
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 02, 2018, 10:36:13 AM
K has 5 titles and 12 Final Fours
Roy has 3 titles and 9 Final Fours
If Jay wins, he'll have 2 titles and 3 Final Fours.

I like the guy,  but Wright has a long way to go before being considered right up there with K and Roy IMHO

I agree with the K argument, but Roy? Here's my thinking:

Duke had a solid program before K got there (4 Final Fours), but K took it to a totally new level with 12 and 5 titles. Same with Wright at Nova. They had been to 2 Final Fours and won 1 title in several decades before he got there, and he has 3 Final Fours and 1-2 titles since 2009. They've gone from "pretty solid program" to the cusp of Blue Blood status.

As for Roy, he got to two Blue Bloods, and maintained their Blue Blood status. UNC had 15 Final Fours before Roy ever stepped on campus and Roy got them there 5 more times. KU had 8 before he ever got there, and another 3 after he left. Kudos to Roy for not mucking it up, but he certainly didn't take either to completely new levels....
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: LAZER on April 02, 2018, 10:42:23 AM
I suppose. But the "best" could be some guy at Presbyterian or N.C. Central or a Division III program. He just hasn't had a chance to prove it on the national stage.

How will he get that chance? By accomplishing stuff.

"Best" is subjective, and requires the person making the call to use his/her own set of criteria.

Is "best" based purely on X's and O's during games? Ego management? Ability to prepare a team in practice? Recruiting? History of success? Probability of future success?

All of the above.  If the Marquette job opened tomorrow and you had your pick of any coach, who would it be?  For me, only a couple names in front of Wright.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: barfolomew on April 02, 2018, 11:05:04 AM
All of the above.  If the Marquette job opened tomorrow and you had your pick of any coach, who would it be?  For me, only a couple names in front of Wright.

Jay Wright may or may not be the "best" active coach, but he is far and away my favorite.
He also has the best commercials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dArYvXruhiQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dArYvXruhiQ)
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 02, 2018, 11:09:32 AM
All of the above.  If the Marquette job opened tomorrow and you had your pick of any coach, who would it be?  For me, only a couple names in front of Wright.

Wojo and who else?
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 02, 2018, 11:14:42 AM
Bennett isn't there yet. No tourney success.   

This is true only if the guys who think the tournament is a crapshoot (i.e., all luck) are full of it. They are, by the way
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: mu03eng on April 02, 2018, 11:35:49 AM
This is true only if the guys who think the tournament is a crapshoot (i.e., all luck) are full of it. They are, by the way

(https://nbccollegebasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/896865342-e1519237567937.jpg?w=610&h=343&crop=1)
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: Golden Avalanche on April 02, 2018, 11:36:19 AM
This is true only if the guys who think the tournament is a crapshoot (i.e., all luck) are full of it. They are, by the way

The UMBC loss will be an anchor around Bennett's neck for years, whether deserved or not.

Took GQ 14 seasons before the narrative of "can't win in March" was lifted and that was after he achieved a Final Four in his eighth season.

Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 02, 2018, 11:40:09 AM
This is true only if the guys who think the tournament is a crapshoot (i.e., all luck) are full of it. They are, by the way

Not true. The tournament is a crapshoot in that is a terrible way to solely judge the quality of a season. Losing one game in March doesn't negate the other 31 wins that Virginia posted this season. They were still one of the top 10 teams in college basketball this season. Similar to how Loyola isn't one of the top 4 teams in college basketball this season.

However, once you start to look at a coach's career overall it's no longer one data point. Tony Bennett has played 18 NCAA tournament games and is 10-8. All 10 of his wins were against teams seeded lower than his. 5 of his losses  were also to teams seeded lower than his. So he has yet to led a team to an upset victory in March but has been upset 5 times....including one of the greatest upsets in the history of the sport. Those 18 data points are valuable when judging a coach overall.

Tony Bennett still gets credit for the great regular seasons he's collected, but that alone isn't enough to be considered a great coach. He has a dismal record in March and that is holding him back.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MUBigDance on April 02, 2018, 12:01:42 PM
Best BB coach ever...K over any College, NBA, women's coach...Not just college wins and success, but USA basketball...how he handled NBA greats.

Best BB college coach ever...K over Wooden.

Best Current coach (this is the original question): Jay Wright. finds really good players...molds into great team...gets most out of everyone on team. In-game adjustments great.  K and Boeheim and Roy are a bit worn out...their great recruits and assistants cover for them a bit. 

So many really good coaches. But Jay Wright wears "Best Current Coach" like a $2,000 suit. Sharp!
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: GGGG on April 02, 2018, 12:14:38 PM
IMO you can't be considered the "best coach ever" if you haven't coached in the NBA.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: Seashells on April 02, 2018, 12:20:44 PM
Jay has to be in the top couple.  It's a lot easier to get recruits at Duke, Kentucky, NC and Kansas.  Those schools are dream programs for HS kids.  For Wright to compete with them is impressive.

And, he seems to be a guy.  I loved hatingt Huggins and Pitino, but I actually like Wright.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on April 02, 2018, 12:44:45 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/Lau3enF.gif)

Wow, i have somehow never seen that, pretty incredible calling that shot with a preternatural calm given the stakes
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 02, 2018, 01:20:12 PM
Jay Wright has transformed how teams are approaching the game. This year's Kansas looked like Villanova light. That Self seems to have followed Wright's lead puts him at the top for me.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: barfolomew on April 02, 2018, 01:24:40 PM
Wow, i have somehow never seen that, pretty incredible calling that shot with a preternatural calm given the stakes

Word. And check Tracy Wolfson in the background.

Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: GGGG on April 02, 2018, 01:28:08 PM
Wow, i have somehow never seen that, pretty incredible calling that shot with a preternatural calm given the stakes


Ever seen this one of Larry Bird when he was coaching the Pacers?  I believe this was after Reggie Miller hit a game winner over the Bulls in the ECF.

(http://78.media.tumblr.com/74c703e615cb37367093eff0a10e6034/tumblr_mfe9nx5k9E1qcmnsoo2_400.gif)
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU82 on April 02, 2018, 01:33:44 PM
Wojo and who else?

I suppose I wouldn't mind Wojo hiring Wright as an assistant.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: willie warrior on April 02, 2018, 01:55:52 PM
Wee willie warrior.
Damn straight. Now I have 2 votes.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 02, 2018, 03:28:55 PM
I suppose I wouldn't mind Wojo hiring Wright as an assistant.

Would that restart the clock on the five years we have to judge Wojo?

 ;)
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 02, 2018, 03:58:18 PM
Tower asked for best coaches,  not legendary ones

Based on ESPN NIT announcers Dana Altman should be listed as one of the best.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: WarriorFan on April 03, 2018, 11:06:33 AM
Wright and Bennet both have systems that win.  I don't like Bennet's as much as Wrights but they both win.  Cal, Self and lately K because of the one and done guys don't have systems, they just run.  The focus is more on recruiting and less on the game.  Boeheim also has a great system and has won with it.

so here's the way I see it today:

Best System coach:  Wright
Best recruiting coach: K
Best game coach:  Boeheim

Best overall coach TODAY:  Wright
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: GGGG on April 03, 2018, 11:10:53 AM
Bennett's doesn't win when it matters though.  Maybe in the future it will.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU82 on April 03, 2018, 02:30:39 PM
Not sure how anybody could answer the OP's question with anybody but Wright.

He wins his conference, which is one of the best in the nation. He wins non-conference games against top competition. He wins NCAA tournament games. He wins with class. He gets talented, hard-working kids who fit his system and buy into it.

Oh, and "currently" - as the question poses - he wins NCAA championships, barely breaking a sweat in winning the second one (in three years).

Frankly, by any measurable metric, I don't see how it's even all that close between him and the next guy.

Remember, the question asks "currently."

Currently, the better question would be:

"Who is currently the second-best men's college basketball coach?"
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: wadesworld on April 03, 2018, 07:23:12 PM
In my opinion Jay Wright is the third best basketball coach in the world at any level right now.

Definitely the top college coach at the moment in my opinion.  Bennett and Beilein are both very underrated.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: warriorchick on April 03, 2018, 07:42:50 PM
Bielein? Not past any of them. Wright? I think he is right up there with Izzo and Boeheim. K and Roy are on different levels.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZqfLjOVoAASxhM.jpg)

This guy knows what he is talking about.


Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: Jockey on April 03, 2018, 08:51:48 PM
Where do Wright and Bielein rank?  Have they passed Izzo, K, Boeheim, Roy?  I think both have put themselves in the conversation.

Depends whether you are talking coaching, recruiting, or both. All inclusive, it would have to be K, Self Cal, and Roy. Then maybe Wright.

Coaching alone - Wright and Bielein are as good as anyone in the country, period.

Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 03, 2018, 09:02:13 PM
Depends whether you are talking coaching, recruiting, or both. All inclusive, it would have to be K, Self Cal, and Roy. Then maybe Wright.

Coaching alone - Wright and Bielein are as good as anyone in the country, period.

Anyone curious why Cal used to get all the best 1 and dones — then poof — now K gets all of them. 
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU82 on April 03, 2018, 09:16:06 PM
Depends whether you are talking coaching, recruiting, or both. All inclusive, it would have to be K, Self Cal, and Roy. Then maybe Wright.

Coaching alone - Wright and Bielein are as good as anyone in the country, period.

The question is "currently"?

How are K, Self, Cal and Roy "currently" better than the guy who has won 2 of the last 3 national titles, including the second one in the college basketball equivalent of "fo' fo' fo'"?

You think they are better coaches because they have been, in the past. But currently, none of them produces the results that Wright does.

And it's a "results industry."
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: warriorchick on April 03, 2018, 09:25:12 PM
Anyone curious why Cal used to get all the best 1 and dones — then poof — now K gets all of them.

Cal invented the concept of an all one and done team.  I guess Coach K perfected it.

Besides, I would rather have 12 college credits from Duke than from Kentucky.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: brewcity77 on April 03, 2018, 10:02:54 PM
Depends whether you are talking coaching, recruiting, or both. All inclusive, it would have to be K, Self Cal, and Roy. Then maybe Wright.

I'm curious why you would think that. Is Wright not a better recruiter than anyone else on that list? He recruited Jalen Brunson, who was named Player of the Year over anyone on any of those teams. Mikel Bridges was 'Nova's second best player, recruited by Wright, and better than the second best player on any of those teams (and frankly, better than the first best on most).

I don't think getting 5-stars makes one a good recruiter. Recruiting is not just about tallying numbers but about creating a team that fits and works together. If one coach successfully recruits the 13 best freshmen in the country and they all turn out to be centers, that team without any guards is going to look pretty silly when it gets undressed by a mid-major in March.

Who was a better recruit, Dwyane Wade or the more highly rated Scott Merritt? Top-100 Jamail Jones or unrated Davante Gardner? Top-100 Haanif Cheatham or classmate Sacar Anim who now has his job? Were there really 94 recruits better than Sam Hauser in 2016?

A good recruiter doesn't just win recruiting battles, they identify the right players to succeed and win in their system. They don't get guys based on NBA pedigree, they get them based on what they will do for their own program.

Cal and K might get more McDonald's All-Americans, but based on the results of the past five years, I'd say that Jay Wright has kicked their asses up and down the recruiting trails. What makes it all the more impressive is they don't even realize how badly they are being beaten because they are too busy chasing the wrong kids.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MUDPT on April 03, 2018, 10:46:28 PM
Best BB coach ever...K over any College, NBA, women's coach...Not just college wins and success, but USA basketball...how he handled NBA greats.

Best BB college coach ever...K over Wooden.

Best Current coach (this is the original question): Jay Wright. finds really good players...molds into great team...gets most out of everyone on team. In-game adjustments great.  K and Boeheim and Roy are a bit worn out...their great recruits and assistants cover for them a bit. 

So many really good coaches. But Jay Wright wears "Best Current Coach" like a $2,000 suit. Sharp!

Coach K is a mediocre X's and O's coach. And the whole Dillon Brooks thing still bothers me.  Dude is a great leader and gets his guys to play together, but just doesn't do it for me.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU82 on April 03, 2018, 10:51:22 PM
I'm curious why you would think that. Is Wright not a better recruiter than anyone else on that list? He recruited Jalen Brunson, who was named Player of the Year over anyone on any of those teams. Mikel Bridges was 'Nova's second best player, recruited by Wright, and better than the second best player on any of those teams (and frankly, better than the first best on most).

I don't think getting 5-stars makes one a good recruiter. Recruiting is not just about tallying numbers but about creating a team that fits and works together. If one coach successfully recruits the 13 best freshmen in the country and they all turn out to be centers, that team without any guards is going to look pretty silly when it gets undressed by a mid-major in March.

Who was a better recruit, Dwyane Wade or the more highly rated Scott Merritt? Top-100 Jamail Jones or unrated Davante Gardner? Top-100 Haanif Cheatham or classmate Sacar Anim who now has his job? Were there really 94 recruits better than Sam Hauser in 2016?

A good recruiter doesn't just win recruiting battles, they identify the right players to succeed and win in their system. They don't get guys based on NBA pedigree, they get them based on what they will do for their own program.

Cal and K might get more McDonald's All-Americans, but based on the results of the past five years, I'd say that Jay Wright has kicked their asses up and down the recruiting trails. What makes it all the more impressive is they don't even realize how badly they are being beaten because they are too busy chasing the wrong kids.

I love this comment, brew, and agree with every word.

I don't know how anybody can look at the accomplishments of any coach today - including the recruiting accomplishments - and conclude that Wright isn't "currently" the best.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on April 04, 2018, 01:50:44 PM
Cal invented the concept of an all one and done team.  I guess Coach K perfected it.
Yeah, wasn't K kind of slow to embrace the all one and done concept?
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU82 on April 04, 2018, 03:48:25 PM
Yeah, wasn't K kind of slow to embrace the all one and done concept?

Heck, for years Duke bragged about being the only program that guys didn't leave even 1 year early for the NBA.

Laettner stayed all 4, Hill stayed all 4, Hurley stayed all 4, etc.

Eventually, the floodgates opened, and K decided to stop trying to fight it.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: warriorchick on April 04, 2018, 04:02:35 PM
I am not sure that Kentucky has proven that the one and done concept is all that successful.

It's not like they are in the championship game every year.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: GGGG on April 04, 2018, 04:08:24 PM
I am not sure that Kentucky has proven that the one and done concept is all that successful.

It's not like they are in the championship game every year.


Really the 2014-15 Dookies and the 2011-12 UK teams are the only champions that have relied primarily on one and dones.

It is by far the exception to the rule.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: Jockey on April 04, 2018, 04:18:56 PM
The question is "currently"?

How are K, Self, Cal and Roy "currently" better than the guy who has won 2 of the last 3 national titles, including the second one in the college basketball equivalent of "fo' fo' fo'"?

You think they are better coaches because they have been, in the past. But currently, none of them produces the results that Wright does.

And it's a "results industry."

Good post, Mike.

I have been highly critical of K, Self, Cal, and Roy in the past. As a matter of fact, people questioned me when I questioned their coaching abilities.

However, this year, I think each of them did a better job than they normally do.

K - had a bunch of freshman and his star played even less defense than Rowsey or Howard. It was a monumental coaching move for him to go almost all zone over the last 1/3 of the season.

Self - I have always maintained he was one of the most overrated game coaches in the country, but taking these guys as far as he did was his best coaching job ever. Talent? Sure, but not as much as in recent years.

Cal - probably his weakest group of one-and-dones ever. You and I are better shooters than most of his guys. But he took the group a long way.

Roy - probably his weakest team in many years. Star player was a walk-on. Very little depth and probably not a single guy who will be a starter in the NBA. Maybe a couple deep rotation guys.

Wright - I have thought for years that he has been underrated as a game coach. But he had better players and he should win a Championship with this group. Next year will be interesting if only Brunson and Bridges leave. He will still have a lot of veteran talent plus an outstanding set of recruits who look exactly like the kind of guys Nova always has. To me, a definite top 5 team.


K, Self, Roy, and Cal will always get decent results because they get the best players and the schools have their reputations (at least for now). But I thought each did a better job than usual this year.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU82 on April 04, 2018, 06:38:13 PM
Good post, Mike.

I have been highly critical of K, Self, Cal, and Roy in the past. As a matter of fact, people questioned me when I questioned their coaching abilities.

However, this year, I think each of them did a better job than they normally do.

K - had a bunch of freshman and his star played even less defense than Rowsey or Howard. It was a monumental coaching move for him to go almost all zone over the last 1/3 of the season.

Self - I have always maintained he was one of the most overrated game coaches in the country, but taking these guys as far as he did was his best coaching job ever. Talent? Sure, but not as much as in recent years.

Cal - probably his weakest group of one-and-dones ever. You and I are better shooters than most of his guys. But he took the group a long way.

Roy - probably his weakest team in many years. Star player was a walk-on. Very little depth and probably not a single guy who will be a starter in the NBA. Maybe a couple deep rotation guys.

Wright - I have thought for years that he has been underrated as a game coach. But he had better players and he should win a Championship with this group. Next year will be interesting if only Brunson and Bridges leave. He will still have a lot of veteran talent plus an outstanding set of recruits who look exactly like the kind of guys Nova always has. To me, a definite top 5 team.


K, Self, Roy, and Cal will always get decent results because they get the best players and the schools have their reputations (at least for now). But I thought each did a better job than usual this year.

Very sound perspective, brand.

Too early to know who all is coming back for Nova, though. Would your thoughts on them next season be different if Spellman and DeVincenzo left in addition to Brunson and Bridges?
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: Jockey on April 04, 2018, 10:59:07 PM
Very sound perspective, brand.

Too early to know who all is coming back for Nova, though. Would your thoughts on them next season be different if Spellman and DeVincenzo left in addition to Brunson and Bridges?

Yes. With Spellman and DeVincenzo, I think they are a top 5 team.

Without them, Nova will still be in the hunt for the BE title, but not a threat to win another National title.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU82 on April 13, 2018, 11:33:47 AM
Hornets fired their coach today, and the first list of candidates includes none other than ... Jay Wright.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article208795204.html#emlnl=Breaking_Newsletter

Would he leave Villanova for the Hornets? Not only has Wright, 56, been hugely successful at the college level, but his personality would probably be a better fit in the NBA than many other top college coaches.

It's just one sportswriter throwing spaghetti at the ceiling and seeing what might stick, but still interesting to see it. I do agree that Wright's personality would work very well in the NBA.

Frankly, even if Wright were interested, I doubt Michael would pay enough to lure him to Charlotte to coach a mediocre-at-best NBA franchise with no recent history of success, severe salary-cap issues and a not-especially-attractive landing spot for superstars.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: GGGG on April 13, 2018, 11:41:43 AM
I would love it if Wright took the Bucks' job.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU82 on April 13, 2018, 12:03:34 PM
I would love it if Wright took the Bucks' job.

I would think the Bucks would be similarly unattractive to a college coach who already has a great, high-paying job and would want a legit crack at NBA titles.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: naginiF on April 13, 2018, 12:08:17 PM
I would love it if Wright took the Bucks' job.
And open up The Greek Freaks bloodline to the Nova recruiting machine!  are you daft man?
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: GGGG on April 13, 2018, 12:25:18 PM
I would think the Bucks would be similarly unattractive to a college coach who already has a great, high-paying job and would want a legit crack at NBA titles.


I think the Bucks have a lot more to build around than most teams.  Much more than the Bobcats.  I don't think it would take too much to get them into the upper echelon of the league IMO.

I think they are the best opening in the league right now and it's not even close.  Only concern I would have as a coach is that the owners are flighty and how much control I would have crafting the roster.  But from a talent perspective, the Bucks are in decent shape.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU82 on April 13, 2018, 12:46:52 PM

I think the Bucks have a lot more to build around than most teams.  Much more than the Bobcats.  I don't think it would take too much to get them into the upper echelon of the league IMO.

I think they are the best opening in the league right now and it's not even close.  Only concern I would have as a coach is that the owners are flighty and how much control I would have crafting the roster.  But from a talent perspective, the Bucks are in decent shape.

You might be right. I probably was a little too dismissive of the Bucks' prospects in my earlier post.

It's just so difficult to build a legit contender in the NBA. I mean, the Bucks have been trying ever Nelly left. In the 30+ years since, they have won a grand total of 3 playoff series - and none since 2002.

But sure, you get the right coach, you get a few stars who choose to stay instead of bolting to NY/LA/hot team du jour, and you get a nice helping of luck (which all success stories need), and there's a chance.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: CTWarrior on April 13, 2018, 12:55:07 PM

Really the 2014-15 Dookies and the 2011-12 UK teams are the only champions that have relied primarily on one and dones.

It is by far the exception to the rule.

I don't know that it is by far the exception to the rule.  Cal is the only one who has really gone "all in" on one and done and now Duke for a few years.  So maybe 12-13 team seasons so far, and there are 2 championships and a few more final fours.  Seems like a good tactic to me.  2 of the last 7 championships is not the exception to the rule.  Problem is there aren't a ton of those guys around and two teams trying to go in on that tactic makes it harder for both to succeed that way.

Right now the Nova way is probably the most consistent, best way to go about things.  However, now all the high majors are going to start targeting those all around guys between 6-4 and 6-8 and less on the low post or 3 point specialists and it will be harder for Villanova to get enough of those guys to dominate with.  They have the advantage of a good head start.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: warriorchick on April 13, 2018, 01:45:13 PM
I don't know that it is by far the exception to the rule.  Cal is the only one who has really gone "all in" on one and done and now Duke for a few years.  So maybe 12-13 team seasons so far, and there are 2 championships and a few more final fours.  Seems like a good tactic to me. 2 of the last 7 championships is not the exception to the rule.  Problem is there aren't a ton of those guys around and two teams trying to go in on that tactic makes it harder for both to succeed that way.

Right now the Nova way is probably the most consistent, best way to go about things.  However, now all the high majors are going to start targeting those all around guys between 6-4 and 6-8 and less on the low post or 3 point specialists and it will be harder for Villanova to get enough of those guys to dominate with.  They have the advantage of a good head start.

Really?  If Marquette had a starting lineup almost entirely made up of NBA lottery picks every year, there are plenty of Scoopers who would expect them to do better than that.   Some of them expect it even without the lottery picks.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU82 on April 13, 2018, 01:55:13 PM
Really?  If Marquette had a starting lineup almost entirely made up of NBA lottery picks every year, there are plenty of Scoopers who would expect them to do better than that.   Some of them expect it even without the lottery picks.

Word.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: muwarrior69 on April 13, 2018, 04:04:06 PM
Ners!
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: rocket surgeon on April 13, 2018, 06:30:25 PM
gotta keep raising the luxury tax, ein'a?
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 16, 2018, 02:29:15 PM
Hornets fired their coach today, and the first list of candidates includes none other than ... Jay Wright.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article208795204.html#emlnl=Breaking_Newsletter

Would he leave Villanova for the Hornets? Not only has Wright, 56, been hugely successful at the college level, but his personality would probably be a better fit in the NBA than many other top college coaches.

It's just one sportswriter throwing spaghetti at the ceiling and seeing what might stick, but still interesting to see it. I do agree that Wright's personality would work very well in the NBA.

Frankly, even if Wright were interested, I doubt Michael would pay enough to lure him to Charlotte to coach a mediocre-at-best NBA franchise with no recent history of success, severe salary-cap issues and a not-especially-attractive landing spot for superstars.

I saw that he is on the Knicks list also.
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: dgies9156 on April 16, 2018, 08:15:37 PM
Really?  If Marquette had a starting lineup almost entirely made up of NBA lottery picks every year, there are plenty of Scoopers who would expect them to do better than that.   Some of them expect it even without the lottery picks.

You mean me?  ;D
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: warriorchick on April 16, 2018, 08:51:21 PM
You mean me?  ;D

What makes you think that?   ;D
Title: Re: Who is currently the best men's college basketball coach?
Post by: 🏀 on April 16, 2018, 08:59:02 PM
Hornets fired their coach today, and the first list of candidates includes none other than ... Jay Wright.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article208795204.html#emlnl=Breaking_Newsletter

Would he leave Villanova for the Hornets? Not only has Wright, 56, been hugely successful at the college level, but his personality would probably be a better fit in the NBA than many other top college coaches.

It's just one sportswriter throwing spaghetti at the ceiling and seeing what might stick, but still interesting to see it. I do agree that Wright's personality would work very well in the NBA.

Frankly, even if Wright were interested, I doubt Michael would pay enough to lure him to Charlotte to coach a mediocre-at-best NBA franchise with no recent history of success, severe salary-cap issues and a not-especially-attractive landing spot for superstars.

NBA writers in Charlotte? Psh, losers.