MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: PaintTouches on March 21, 2018, 12:25:59 PM
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I'm pretty sure I identified the exact moment Hauser re-aggravated the injury. Video in the article.
https://painttouches.com/2018/03/21/greska-playing-hauser-was-dumb-and-dangerous/ (https://painttouches.com/2018/03/21/greska-playing-hauser-was-dumb-and-dangerous/)
Once you see that, and then compare to pre and post numbers, you will also agree.
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I hate to, but I have to disagree Andrei. Team docs know what they are doing. The injury was wearing Sam down but it was not the kind of injury that was a risk for getting worse by playing on it. Yes he was hurting and his numbers were down, but he was going to need to the same surgery whether he played or not. Only "cost" to playing Sam was theoretically he could have gotten the surgery a week or two sooner.
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How dare you disagree TAMU. What is this, a free country?
But I think people are conflating 2 injuries with 1. The initial injury occurred prior to the season, but didn't have a noticeable effect in terms of athleticism or on-court performance. The 2nd happened against DePaul, and it was most likely a re-aggravation of the initial one. The results of that one were evident to anyone with eyes.
Now, you say the injury was not at risk for getting worse, but that doesn't mean the risk for a different injury, compensating for the initial injury, a la Derrick Rose, wasn't there. It's not just me spewing nonsense, I included links to 2 academic studies of the NBA and NCAA that come to similar conclusions.
Long story short, no one has told me what the doc's diagnosis was, but I'm guessing it was similar to Bonzie's. He played just fine on it without making it worse, until he didn't. Sam turned out ok, but I'm not ok with adding any risk to the cornerstone of the team.
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Knowing what we know now, I would have 100% shut him down after BE tourney.
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Knowing what we know now, I would have 100% shut him down after BE tourney.
I'll stick with the docs. MU has an outstanding medical team, and I trust they have more knowledge than we do.
Sam is too important to the program for them to be reckless with him.
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Sam should have absolutely been shut down after the big east tournament. Can’t believe the staff chose to play him in 3 exhibition games.
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Sam should have absolutely been shut down after the big east tournament. Can’t believe the staff chose to play him in 3 exhibition games.
Why? Was he harmed in any way? Was the risk greater?
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What's more dumb and dangerous: using a public forum to criticize team coaches and doctors when you have no idea really what you are talking about. (And quoting a couple public web-sites doesn't count.)
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I'm pretty sure I identified the exact moment Hauser re-aggravated the injury. Video in the article.
https://painttouches.com/2018/03/21/greska-playing-hauser-was-dumb-and-dangerous/ (https://painttouches.com/2018/03/21/greska-playing-hauser-was-dumb-and-dangerous/)
Once you see that, and then compare to pre and post numbers, you will also agree.
HOT TAKE
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Asst AD doesn't like you guys
https://twitter.com/UWPgrad1997/status/976518299331825664
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I hate to, but I have to disagree Andrei. Team docs know what they are doing. The injury was wearing Sam down but it was not the kind of injury that was a risk for getting worse by playing on it. Yes he was hurting and his numbers were down, but he was going to need to the same surgery whether he played or not. Only "cost" to playing Sam was theoretically he could have gotten the surgery a week or two sooner.
I would have scheduled it the day after Selection Sunday.
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Two weeks isn't going to make a difference. He'll be fully recovered long before basketball season begins if all goes to plan.
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Had Sam shut down, Joey would of called him a wimp.
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Asst AD doesn't like you guys
https://twitter.com/UWPgrad1997/status/976518299331825664
Don't lump TAMU into this, haha. That's why I put my name on it directly. But yea, nothing new there.
And Sultan, if any of my posts get to the point of being dumb and dangerous, I sure hope I make more than the ad revenue I currently get. I appreciate the discussion, but statement like that don't make much sense.
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From Marquette Wire
Hauser, Elliott start injury recovery after NIT loss
John Steppe, Assistant Sports Editor • March 20, 2018 •
Marquette sophomore forward Sam Hauser said he will undergo surgery on his left hip and is expected to miss 5-6 months.
“It’s been an issue all year,” Hauser said. “I’m just going to get it fixed in a week or two here and then start the rehab process.”
The injury has bothered him since August. Despite the hip issues, Hauser was third on the team in scoring with 14.1 points per game and led the team in 3-point shooting and rebounding.
Hauser is not the only significant player to have ongoing health issues. Freshman guard Greg Elliott has dealt with a hand injury since the Lindenwood exhibition Nov. 4. He said the doctors will examine his hand to see if he needs surgery. The guard from Pontiac, Michigan averaged 18.3 minutes per game this year.
“I hurt it in the Lindenwood exhibition and it’s been messed up every since,” Elliott said. “We’re going to see if we need surgery or not after a couple of weeks.”
Neither player missed any game action as a result of the injuries.
“Our guys are fried,” Marquette head coach Steve Wojciechowski said. “I would not advise guys to be in the gym tomorrow, and I think they would heed that advice.”
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Asst AD doesn't like you guys
https://twitter.com/UWPgrad1997/status/976518299331825664
This makes me smile.
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This bit of stupidity is what happens when someone thinks his ability to use Google is an adequate substitute for a medical degree and actual evaluation of a patient.
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This bit of stupidity is what happens when someone thinks his ability to use Google is an adequate substitute for a medical degree and actual evaluation of a patient.
Don't forget Twitter, and Synergy, and TRank. But yea, good thing they didn't make me ND's doc or I might have gotten Bonzie hurt.
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Don't forget Twitter, and Synergy, and TRank. But yea, good thing they didn't make me ND's doc or I might have gotten Bonzie hurt.
Bonzie Colson re-injuring his foot makes you capable of evaluating Sam Hauser's hip better than his doctors.
Solid argument.
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I hate to, but I have to disagree Andrei. Team docs know what they are doing. The injury was wearing Sam down but it was not the kind of injury that was a risk for getting worse by playing on it. Yes he was hurting and his numbers were down, but he was going to need to the same surgery whether he played or not. Only "cost" to playing Sam was theoretically he could have gotten the surgery a week or two sooner.
This. This was like Clay Matthews' shoulder this year. As long as the docs were fully transparent with Sam and Sam willingly played through, there's nothing to see here.
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Bonzie Colson re-injuring his foot makes you capable of evaluating Sam Hauser's hip better than his doctors.
Solid argument.
Not at all. Simply that great doctor's told him and Brey that he was ok to play. No idea what the diagnosis was, but I'm positive if he knew the outcome he wouldn't have played.
For Sam, I thought/think the value of him playing in the NIT did not outweigh any microscopic chance of making his injury worse, or the slightly greater chance of incurring a separate, unrelated injury. I was saying as much before he even disclosed the injury required a 4-5 month recovery.
It's fine to disagree, many have. But you specifically cited trusting the docs, and I responded with a recent example of how even great docs can't prevent an injury.
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It's fine to disagree, many have. But you specifically cited trusting the docs, and I responded with a recent example of how even great docs can't prevent an injury.
Well, if your argument is that no one should ever play through an injury, regardless of his/her doctor's opinion, because there's a microscopic chance of worsening it, then I guess that's fine. I disagree, but you're entitled to that view.
But even that's a far cry from your "dumb and dangerous" statement. Dumb and dangerous means the coaching and medical staff was careless with Sam's health. You don't have the first idea of whether that's accurate, and it's reckless of you to make that claim.
Beyond that, your whole article is based on the absurd belief that you can offer anything close to an informed opinion on Sam's injury and prognosis without the benefit of any experience, expertise or examination. That's what is really dumb and dangerous here.
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From Marquette Wire
Hauser, Elliott start injury recovery after NIT loss
John Steppe, Assistant Sports Editor • March 20, 2018 •
Marquette sophomore forward Sam Hauser said he will undergo surgery on his left hip and is expected to miss 5-6 months.
“It’s been an issue all year,” Hauser said. “I’m just going to get it fixed in a week or two here and then start the rehab process.”
The injury has bothered him since August. Despite the hip issues, Hauser was third on the team in scoring with 14.1 points per game and led the team in 3-point shooting and rebounding.
Hauser is not the only significant player to have ongoing health issues. Freshman guard Greg Elliott has dealt with a hand injury since the Lindenwood exhibition Nov. 4. He said the doctors will examine his hand to see if he needs surgery. The guard from Pontiac, Michigan averaged 18.3 minutes per game this year.
“I hurt it in the Lindenwood exhibition and it’s been messed up every since,” Elliott said. “We’re going to see if we need surgery or not after a couple of weeks.”
Neither player missed any game action as a result of the injuries.
“Our guys are fried,” Marquette head coach Steve Wojciechowski said. “I would not advise guys to be in the gym tomorrow, and I think they would heed that advice.”
But some moron said this team lacked heart.
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So some podcaster knows more than the staff, the Hausers, trainers, doctors and surgeons??
Lotta silly posts on this board over the years but this one is just plain stupid. Boo and thumbs down to pod casters.
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This bit of stupidity is what happens when someone thinks his ability to use Google is an adequate substitute for a medical degree and actual evaluation of a patient.
I agree. This whole podcast and the feeling of entitlement just because they do a podcast out of their parents basement is pathetic. At what point does some one not take a step back and question wether their opinion is more valuable than the hands on knowledge of a myriad of professionals?
Pretty lame guys.
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I'm pretty sure I identified the exact moment Hauser re-aggravated the injury. Video in the article.
https://painttouches.com/2018/03/21/greska-playing-hauser-was-dumb-and-dangerous/ (https://painttouches.com/2018/03/21/greska-playing-hauser-was-dumb-and-dangerous/)
Once you see that, and then compare to pre and post numbers, you will also agree.
(http://memecrunch.com/meme/BVC0/what-you-ve-just-said-is-one-of-the-most-insanely-idiotic-things-i-have-ever-heard-at-no-point-in-your-rambling-incoherent-response-were-you-even-close-to-anything-that-could-be-considered-a-rational-thought-everyone-in-this-room-is-now-dumber-for-having-listened-to-it-i-award-you-no-points-and-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/image.png)
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I agree. This whole podcast and the feeling of entitlement just because they do a podcast out of their parents basement is pathetic. At what point does some one not take a step back and question wether their opinion is more valuable than the hands on knowledge of a myriad of professionals?
Pretty lame guys.
Pakuni called OP in an appropriate way. Your BS attack is even more pathetic than what you're attacking.
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Everyone has their own opinion, dont they?
Oh and btw nice screen name.
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It’s utterly ridiculous and irresponsible of posters (not shocked) to be playing doctor.
The doctors aren’t going to put kids in harms way or clear them, especially for a NIT game if they shouldn’t be cleared.
Good grief I have to go throw up
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Good grief I have to go throw up
If you're sick I'm sure someone here can offer a diagnosis.
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If you're sick I'm sure someone here can offer a diagnosis.
Well played.
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What's the difference between Scoopers and God?
God doesn't think he's a Scooper.
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I'll stick with the docs. MU has an outstanding medical team, and I trust they have more knowledge than we do.
Sam is too important to the program for them to be reckless with him.
+1 Anyone that thinks they know more or better than the medical staff blows my mind. Don't you think they realize how important it is to not take unnecessary risks with our investments? (players)
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Pakuni called OP in an appropriate way. Your BS attack is even more pathetic than what you're attacking.
+1, the "mom's basement" line is one of the most tired and overused things of all time
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This bit of stupidity is what happens when someone thinks his ability to use Google is an adequate substitute for a medical degree and actual evaluation of a patient.
Pux90mex can you please share your medical credentials with us? You pull two general quotes from orthopedic and sports medicine websites like that somehow makes a strong case. One discusses intra-articular hip issues being poorly understood... have you seen Sam’s MRI and are your sure it’s an intra-articular hip issue for Sam? I think the reference is likely referring to the average Joe Blow doctor poorly understanding hip issues. Sam’s brother Joey had his surgery performed by renowned Dr. Anderson who is on the packers medical staff... the top surgeon in the Midwest for his procedure. To think the Hausers and MU medical staff was negligent in letting Sam play is asinine. Your arguments remind me of the antivax crowd and their testimonies in which their story somehow trumps science
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<<Now, you say the injury was not at risk for getting worse, but that doesn't mean the risk for a different injury, compensating for the initial injury, a la Derrick Rose, wasn't there. >>
This was my main concern, and my gut reaction while watching Sam labor through a couple of games was that he should be shut down.
But ultimately I figured that the doctors and training staff gave Sam and his family all of the information and let them have a say in it.
There would be no benefit to the program to have an injured kid get hurt more badly in the NIT; not only would it have been bad for Sam, it would have cast a very bad light on the program if something like that had happened.
So I told myself, "Self, trust the doctors who actually know what's going on."
I am not nearly as bothered as some that the article was written, but I do think the "dumb and dangerous" is way over the top.
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Good one mufan, I walked right into that one. LOL
I mean you have to have ZERO self awareness to post doctor stuff on message boards. You have to know people are going to think your a complete idiot (unless you are a doctor or in the field).
Friendly suggestion, stick to fire the coach stuff or bench him because he sucks etc.... You will blend in better
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Good one mufan, I walked right into that one. LOL
I mean you have to have ZERO self awareness to post doctor stuff on message boards. You have to know people are going to think your a complete idiot (unless you are a doctor or in the field).
Friendly suggestion, stick to fire the coach stuff or bench him because he sucks etc.... You will blend in better
you're
Friendly suggestion: It's never a good look for somebody who can't spell to call somebody else an idiot.
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you're
Friendly suggestion: It's never a good look for somebody who can't spell to call somebody else an idiot.
He (or she) spells just fine. He (or she) just happened to correctly spell the wrong word.
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I agree. This whole podcast and the feeling of entitlement just because they do a podcast out of their parents basement is pathetic. At what point does some one not take a step back and question wether their opinion is more valuable than the hands on knowledge of a myriad of professionals?
Pretty lame guys.
1. As far as I know, Paint Touches has never been a podcast
2. At what point did any of the MUBB "podcasters" claim to have a more valuable opinion? As far as I can tell they simply offer an opinion and as we know:
Everyone has their own opinion, dont they?
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I agree. This whole podcast and the feeling of entitlement just because they do a podcast out of their parents basement is pathetic.
The only MU podcast occurring in a basement was when Joe had Phil locked in his creepy Texas basement. This has already been well established on Twitter.
To the OP, I disagree. Some injuries will not become worse and there's plenty of time for Sam to heal before next season starts.
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Well, if your argument is that no one should ever play through an injury, regardless of his/her doctor's opinion, because there's a microscopic chance of worsening it, then I guess that's fine. I disagree, but you're entitled to that view.
But even that's a far cry from your "dumb and dangerous" statement. Dumb and dangerous means the coaching and medical staff was careless with Sam's health. You don't have the first idea of whether that's accurate, and it's reckless of you to make that claim.
Beyond that, your whole article is based on the absurd belief that you can offer anything close to an informed opinion on Sam's injury and prognosis without the benefit of any experience, expertise or examination. That's what is really dumb and dangerous here.
I'm not going to work tomorrow because of the microscopic chance I could be hit by a semi and killed......never going on another plane that's for sure......
What does Hawkeye Pierce think? Marcus Wellby? Dr. Kildare?
It's 1 thing to say you wouldn't have played him.....it's another to use hyperbole like you did in the headline.
Sam and his parents all were informed of the situation.....if they were worried he wouldn't have played.....
You nailed it Pakuni.
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What's the difference between Scoopers and God?
God doesn't think he's a Scooper.
Ha, ha. So true.
I miss journalism that reported news rather than substituting their opinion in place of news or coloring articles to have the same effect. The latter should be prefaced with "Opinion" or "Editorial".
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Terminology bulletin:
Podcast = Audible recording, usually of people talking into a mic / Podcasters
Blog entry = Written article, web log, text / Bloggers
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I see both sides.
On one hand, you have complete trust of MU, staff and physicians.
On the other hand, you have all of the other variables. With MU playing weekend in games in Chicago and New York, it would have been prudent to have someone else (who has done work on professional athletes), do an examination, look at the scans and give an honest opinion. Give a listen to Chris Borland on The Ringer's NFL show sometime. Team physicians are employed by the team with lots of gray area on what's best for the team vs. the athlete. One prominent college athlete I know, had a huge setback when the ortho surgeon made a huge mistake. So I hope that someone outside of the MU realm gave some feedback of the situation.
My biggest problem with him playing is having surgery on March 12 versus March 26. Two weeks is huge in any rehab, especially FAI. Everything should go smoothly, but if there are hiccups, those 2 weeks can be vital. To me it's whether your goal is to win the NIT or put everything in place for next season, and that's where I see the Paint Touches side.
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Asst AD doesn't like you guys
https://twitter.com/UWPgrad1997/status/976518299331825664
Ha ha. Good for him
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This post has already gotten torn to shreds, and while I get it's an opinion piece, it's fairly wreckless.
First hauser himself said it was bothering him sinces August. So I would guess you're thinking he should have been out all season then.
--the fact that he played all season on it is an ode to the doctors knowing it would hold up the whole season instead of shutting him down in August.
Secondly, using two generic public statements from public accounts of ortho doctors doesn't help this arguement.
Case in point: there is 1... ONE ever research article linking vaccines to autism. (Also the guy who wrote this paper has even said himself that he made it up and it's not true).
There are hundreds of research papers that show the complete opposite.
But any numbskull can find the "AUTISM IS CAUSED BY VACCINES!" Statement online. And it's easier to find that one.
So while I appreciate the article. And the way it is written (while I completely disagree with your stance), I think there are a few flaws.
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I see both sides.
On one hand, you have complete trust of MU, staff and physicians.
On the other hand, you have all of the other variables. With MU playing weekend in games in Chicago and New York, it would have been prudent to have someone else (who has done work on professional athletes), do an examination, look at the scans and give an honest opinion. Give a listen to Chris Borland on The Ringer's NFL show sometime. Team physicians are employed by the team with lots of gray area on what's best for the team vs. the athlete. One prominent college athlete I know, had a huge setback when the ortho surgeon made a huge mistake. So I hope that someone outside of the MU realm gave some feedback of the situation.
My biggest problem with him playing is having surgery on March 12 versus March 26. Two weeks is huge in any rehab, especially FAI. Everything should go smoothly, but if there are hiccups, those 2 weeks can be vital. To me it's whether your goal is to win the NIT or put everything in place for next season, and that's where I see the Paint Touches side.
With consideration to the 2 weeks:
I agree it is huge! But there can be things that are causing a delay in treatment. Not only his well being and allowing him to have a bit of s life after basketball. But medically it may be that there is significant swelling around the injury and they are allowing the swelling to go down.
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Everyone has their own opinion, dont they?
Yes, and everyone has an pretty boy.
And some people are pretty boys.
And work to prove it everyday.
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With consideration to the 2 weeks:
I agree it is huge! But there can be things that are causing a delay in treatment. Not only his well being and allowing him to have a bit of s life after basketball. But medically it may be that there is significant swelling around the injury and they are allowing the swelling to go down.
Playing basketball during those 2 weeks is not going to decrease any inflammation/swelling. With an ACL, sure have to let the edema go down. With a FAI, there is not enough edema that would delay a surgical intervention.
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I did not and do not have doctor creds, and never claimed as much. I work for a medical journal publisher, so I asked the publisher of our physical therapy journals for two publicly available sources regarding basketball or hip injuries and she suggested those two.
And no one is actually responding to the visual evidence. Everyone seems to agree he wasn't himself. The stats show that he was pretty poor coming off the hottest stretch of his career. Like I said in the post, if the stakes of the games were higher, it's worth the added risk. For the NIT, no way (even if it's minimal).
Oh and please don't disparage podcasters like that. They may have faces for radio, but I wish I had their dulcet tones. I'm just here hacking away in my attic.
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I did not and do not have doctor creds, and never claimed as much. I work for a medical journal publisher, so I asked the publisher of our physical therapy journals for two publicly available sources regarding basketball or hip injuries and she suggested those two.
And no one is actually responding to the visual evidence. Everyone seems to agree he wasn't himself. The stats show that he was pretty poor coming off the hottest stretch of his career. Like I said in the post, if the stakes of the games were higher, it's worth the added risk. For the NIT, no way (even if it's minimal).
Oh and please don't disparage podcasters like that. They may have faces for radio, but I wish I had their dulcet tones. I'm just here hacking away in my attic.
Very valid point that the visual evidence certainly showed he was in pain and having troubles with his hip.
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I know exactly what the visual evidence showed. He was clearly limited. But that doesn't make it "dumb and dangerous" to play him. If he wasn't risking long-term health, and he wanted to play, there was zero reason NOT to play him.
And I trust Marquette's doctors to make that determination long before I trust some dude who works for a medical journal publisher.
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This post has already gotten torn to shreds, and while I get it's an opinion piece, it's fairly wreckless.
I have no idea if it was intentional, but I absolutely love this. What a great description of a post that is both a train wreck and reckless.
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I have no idea if it was intentional, but I absolutely love this. What a great description of a post that is both a train wreck and reckless.
If one was reckfull, would they be cautious and careful?
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For Sam, I thought/think the value of him playing in the NIT did not outweigh any microscopic chance of making his injury worse, or the slightly greater chance of incurring a separate, unrelated injury. I was saying as much before he even disclosed the injury required a 4-5 month recovery.
So your saying one of the reasons that Sam should not have played is that the possibility exists that he may have incurred a new, separate, unrelated injury?
Can’t this be said of any athlete anywhere at anytime. Why not bench Theo, JC, Greg, Matty, Howard? They too may have been injured during that game. Sam could have stubbed his toe waking up that am, he could have tripped walking into the Al. There are all sorts of risks in this world, We can’t sit Sam because he may have received an new unrelated injury.
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I did not and do not have doctor creds, and never claimed as much. I work for a medical journal publisher, so I asked the publisher of our physical therapy journals for two publicly available sources regarding basketball or hip injuries and she suggested those two.
And no one is actually responding to the visual evidence. Everyone seems to agree he wasn't himself. The stats show that he was pretty poor coming off the hottest stretch of his career. Like I said in the post, if the stakes of the games were higher, it's worth the added risk. For the NIT, no way (even if it's minimal).
Again, you're claiming based on no actual medical knowledge or knowledge of Sam's injury that there was an "added risk." The evidence of this added risk exists only in your imagination. In fact, what we actually do know is indicative that there was no added risk. He's had this condition for months, and yet he - presumably with input from his doctors, trainers, family and coaching staff - continued to play, and at times played quite well.
Do you honestly believe you care more about Sam's health and long-term outlook than he, the coaching staff, the medical staff and his family do?
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If one was reckfull, would they be cautious and careful?
(https://megsfitness.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/tumblringinthetardis-whelmed.jpg?w=490)
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Again, you're claiming based on no actual medical knowledge or knowledge of Sam's injury that there was an "added risk." The evidence of this added risk exists only in your imagination. In fact, what we actually do know is indicative that there was no added risk. He's had this condition for months, and yet he - presumably with input from his doctors, trainers, family and coaching staff - continued to play, and at times played quite well.
Do you honestly believe you care more about Sam's health and long-term outlook than he, the coaching staff, the medical staff and his family do?
Would playing have helped his hip?
I'll spare you; the answer is no.
Best case scenario is his hip is just as injured as it was pre-NIT. IMO, you get this kid on the operating table ASAP.
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Would playing have helped his hip?
I'll spare you; the answer is no.
Best case scenario is his hip is just as injured as it was pre-NIT. IMO, you get this kid on the operating table ASAP.
So you are bitching about two weeks? It's insignificant.
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Would playing have helped his hip?
I'll spare you; the answer is no.
Best case scenario is his hip is just as injured as it was pre-NIT. IMO, you get this kid on the operating table ASAP.
What difference does that make?
Obviously Sam believed the experience of playing in the NIT was more valuable to him than being ready for next season in early August instead of mid-August. I tend to agree.
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Dumb and Dangerous.
Dumbgerous?
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So you are bitching about two weeks? It's insignificant.
I don't know how significant 2 weeks is. But it isn't significant. Ask any rehabilitation professional, you have a professional athlete who needs to be back in October. Can they wait two weeks? Probably. Would you rather then have the surgery ASAP? Absolutely, yes.
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So you are bitching about two weeks? It's insignificant.
I trust the doctors and Wojo in making the call that Sam couldn't make the injury worse by playing, but two weeks isn't insignificant if its a 5 month rehab. If he gets in the OR by April 1, that puts him back in September barring any setbacks. Practice starts a month later with games two months later. IMO the more time between surgery and the start of practice next year, the better. Especially if the alternative is playing in some meaningless NIT games.
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I trust the doctors and Wojo in making the call that Sam couldn't make the injury worse by playing, but two weeks isn't insignificant if its a 5 month rehab. If he gets in the OR by April 1, that puts him back in September barring any setbacks. Practice starts a month later with games two months later. IMO the more time between surgery and the start of practice next year, the better. Especially if the alternative is playing in some meaningless NIT games.
Sam and those around him knew all this. This is not breaking news to them. And with this knowledge, he decided that playing in these "meaningless" games was more important to him than being ready 10 weeks before Madness instead of 8 weeks before Madness.
I don't think that's wrong, by the way. Three games against quality opponents in a tournament setting is far more valuable to a player's development than two extra weeks of individual workouts.
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Sam and those around him knew all this. This is not breaking news to them. And with this knowledge, he decided that playing in these "meaningless" games was more important to him than being ready 10 weeks before Madness instead of 8 weeks before Madness.
I don't think that's wrong, by the way. Three games against quality opponents in a tournament setting is far more valuable to a player's development than two extra weeks of individual workouts.
I'm not shocked Sam wanted to play, he's an incredible competitor and an invaluable member of the team. The reality is most athletes with Sam's makeup want to play if given the option.
My point was that in a 5 month rehab, two weeks is not something to just dismiss when the season starts in 6 months. Your timeline assumes everything goes great and if that's the case, then I would agree that playing in the NIT would have some value for Sam. But if there are setbacks or the rehab takes longer, then that time would be better served post surgery. Perhaps that's being overly cautious, but next year's team has the chance to be special and Sam is one of the key components to that happening. Having him start the season less than 100% is a recipe for disaster.
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I'm not shocked Sam wanted to play, he's an incredible competitor and an invaluable member of the team. The reality is most athletes with Sam's makeup want to play if given the option.
My point was that in a 5 month rehab, two weeks is not something to just dismiss when the season starts in 6 months. Your timeline assumes everything goes great and if that's the case, then I would agree that playing in the NIT would have some value for Sam. But if there are setbacks or the rehab takes longer, then that time would be better served post surgery.
The timeline assumes that everything goes normal. He could end up taking longer to fully recover, he could also be back sooner. As long as the timeline has him back by the beginning of next season, I don't think the extra two weeks is that large of a risk.
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My point was that in a 5 month rehab, two weeks is not something to just dismiss when the season starts in 6 months. Your timeline assumes everything goes great and if that's the case, then I would agree that playing in the NIT would have some value for Sam. But if there are setbacks or the rehab takes longer, then that time would be better served post surgery. Perhaps that's being overly cautious, but next year's team has the chance to be special and Sam is one of the key components to that happening. Having him start the season less than 100% is a recipe for disaster.
First, the season doesn't start in six months. Practice doesn't even start in six months. The first team practice is seven months away. At earliest, the first game is about eight months away. There's already a 2-3 month cushion built into the rehab process, but you're worried about two weeks being a "100 percent recipe for disaster?"
C'mon. If Sam is still having problems by the time the season rolls around, I would suggest that the issue is far more severe than what two extra weeks of rehab could have addressed.
Ultimately, it comes down to what's more valuable: three real games against real opponents in a March tournament, or two weeks of individual workouts in August.
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My point was that in a 5 month rehab, two weeks is not something to just dismiss when the season starts in 6 months.
Math not really a strong suit here? March is the third month of the year. The season starts in November, the eleventh month. That's 8 months. Even if you are counting Marquette Madness, that's 7 months away. I get things could go wrong, but we're hearing 4-5 months. So he's got about 2-3 extra months if something goes wrong.
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For those that wanted Sam to get surgery earlier and skip the NIT...
Do you also support players of any sport skipping "meaningless" games so as to avoid injury or work toward optimal health for the next year? I'm specifically thinking of college fb players skipping non-playoff bowl games, but I'm sure there are other examples - the NIT being one.
It's an interesting dichotomy because there is a segment of people who think that skipping bowl games equates to being a bad teammate, etc.
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Big Daddy?
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For those that wanted Sam to get surgery earlier and skip the NIT...
Do you also support players of any sport skipping "meaningless" games so as to avoid injury or work toward optimal health for the next year? I'm specifically thinking of college fb players skipping non-playoff bowl games, but I'm sure there are other examples - the NIT being one.
It's an interesting dichotomy because there is a segment of people who think that skipping bowl games equates to being a bad teammate, etc.
There is a difference between skipping a game because you are injured and it could get worse and skipping a game because there is a chance you might get injured.
I also think there's a difference between football and basketball because of the nature of the game.
If I was on a team, and my teammate said he wasn't playing because he might get injured, I would be pissed. I would understand his reasons but in my mind he made a commitment to the university and the team and is now going back on that.
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I do not consider the NIT meaningless games.
Potential injury did not stop Joey from playing football or playing AAU ball after concussions or ankle injury. It is in the Hausers' DNA to play no matter what.
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There is a difference between skipping a game because you are injured and it could get worse and skipping a game because there is a chance you might get injured.
I also think there's a difference between football and basketball because of the nature of the game.
If I was on a team, and my teammate said he wasn't playing because he might get injured, I would be pissed. I would understand his reasons but in my mind he made a commitment to the university and the team and is now going back on that.
This keeps getting thrown around with zero evidence.
Understood on the rest of your post.
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If I started my account today, it would probably be called Dumb & Dangerous
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http://www.espn.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/9760169/dwyane-wade-miami-heat-regrets-having-meniscus-removed-college
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http://www.espn.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/9760169/dwyane-wade-miami-heat-regrets-having-meniscus-removed-college
"He's extremely fit, he's had a great camp so far," Heat coach Erik Spoelstra said. "He's trying to win every drill."
Spoelstra throwing shade at Wojo too?!?!
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First, the season doesn't start in six months. Practice doesn't even start in six months. The first team practice is seven months away. At earliest, the first game is about eight months away. There's already a 2-3 month cushion built into the rehab process, but you're worried about two weeks being a "100 percent recipe for disaster?"
C'mon. If Sam is still having problems by the time the season rolls around, I would suggest that the issue is far more severe than what two extra weeks of rehab could have addressed.
Ultimately, it comes down to what's more valuable: three real games against real opponents in a March tournament, or two weeks of individual workouts in August.
Maybe Warrior2008 was getting the college basketball season confused with the NFL season.
If so, I could see why he's worried Sam might not be available to cover kickoffs in the Packers' opener.
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I think the real question is how competent are MU's medical staff?
If you look at Dwyane Wade's comments and go back further to the Charles Luter knee surgery, they might not have been the best. As I understood it from an inside source, during the Bill Cords era, the team doctor had little relevant sports medicine experience but was a friend of Bill, and a lot of the surgeries on athletes in minor sports had career ending outcomes just like Charles Luter.
Let's hope the current medical staff are not "political appointments".
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I think the real question is how competent are MU's medical staff?
If you look at Dwyane Wade's comments and go back further to the Charles Luter knee surgery, they might not have been the best. As I understood it from an inside source, during the Bill Cords era, the team doctor had little relevant sports medicine experience but was a friend of Bill, and a lot of the surgeries on athletes in minor sports had career ending outcomes just like Charles Luter.
Let's hope the current medical staff are not "political appointments".
Nope. Have solid help inside and out. Personally, I’ve had great results with the outside group.
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I think the real question is how competent are MU's medical staff?
If you look at Dwyane Wade's comments and go back further to the Charles Luter knee surgery, they might not have been the best. As I understood it from an inside source, during the Bill Cords era, the team doctor had little relevant sports medicine experience but was a friend of Bill, and a lot of the surgeries on athletes in minor sports had career ending outcomes just like Charles Luter.
Let's hope the current medical staff are not "political appointments".
I doubt the medical staff today is the same medical staff when Charles Luter had surgery 30 years ago.
Though that might explain what happened with Charles .... his surgeon was a 25-year-old med student.
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I think the real question is how competent are MU's medical staff?
If you look at Dwyane Wade's comments and go back further to the Charles Luter knee surgery, they might not have been the best. As I understood it from an inside source, during the Bill Cords era, the team doctor had little relevant sports medicine experience but was a friend of Bill, and a lot of the surgeries on athletes in minor sports had career ending outcomes just like Charles Luter.
Let's hope the current medical staff are not "political appointments".
Charles Luter? That was over 25 years ago.
Here are the two orthopedic surgeons Marquette works with.
This dude is the Bucks' team doctor.
http://www.milwaukeeorthopaedics.com/dr-gordon-joint-disorder-specialist.html
This dude is the chief of sports medicine at Aurora and used to work with the Brewers.
https://www.aurorahealthcare.org/doctors/dr-theodore-h-gertel-md
I think they're fine.
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Math not really a strong suit here? March is the third month of the year. The season starts in November, the eleventh month. That's 8 months. Even if you are counting Marquette Madness, that's 7 months away. I get things could go wrong, but we're hearing 4-5 months. So he's got about 2-3 extra months if something goes wrong.
Perhaps your definition of the season starting is the first game, mine is when practice starts.
Ben Steele wrote two days ago that Hauser was going to have surgery in the coming weeks and guess what, March is almost over. Assuming that he has surgery on April 1st, six months later is October 1st. Since you're so smart and you probably know this already, men's team's start practice 42 days before their first game. So if we open the season on the second Friday in November(the 9th) like he have for awhile now, that means practice starts the end of September. If all goes well, I'll admit this is a big nothing burger, but the point still remains that two weeks would be beneficial if for whatever reason there is a setback.
On another note, the NCAA moved up the start date for the start of the 2018-19 season from a Friday(9th) to a Tuesday(6th) so technically we might be opening the season even earlier than that Friday.
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Charles Luter? That was over 25 years ago.
Here are the two orthopedic surgeons Marquette works with.
This dude is the Bucks' team doctor.
http://www.milwaukeeorthopaedics.com/dr-gordon-joint-disorder-specialist.html
This dude is the chief of sports medicine at Aurora and used to work with the Brewers.
https://www.aurorahealthcare.org/doctors/dr-theodore-h-gertel-md
I think they're fine.
Yep, Mike Gordon has operated on me twice. Good doctor.
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Yep, Mike Gordon has operated on me twice. Good doctor.
Can't be that good if you needed a second one.
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Can't be that good if you needed a second one.
Different knees.
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Perhaps your definition of the season starting is the first game, mine is when practice starts.
Ben Steele wrote two days ago that Hauser was going to have surgery in the coming weeks and guess what, March is almost over. Assuming that he has surgery on April 1st, six months later is October 1st. Since you're so smart and you probably know this already, men's team's start practice 42 days before their first game. So if we open the season on the second Friday in November(the 9th) like he have for awhile now, that means practice starts the end of September. If all goes well, I'll admit this is a big nothing burger, but the point still remains that two weeks would be beneficial if for whatever reason there is a setback.
On another note, the NCAA moved up the start date for the start of the 2018-19 season from a Friday(9th) to a Tuesday(6th) so technically we might be opening the season even earlier than that Friday.
This is all starting to reek of complaining for the sake of complaining.
There is quite literally a two- to three-month cushion built into the recovery timeframe in the event Sam needs more rehabilitation than what's standard for this kind of procedure. He could need 40 percent more time than expected and still be ready for the season with plenty of time to spare. And you guys are going on and on about a two-week delay that was far more valuable to his development than a little extra workout time in August.
You're being silly.
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Charles Luter? That was over 25 years ago.
Here are the two orthopedic surgeons Marquette works with.
This dude is the Bucks' team doctor.
http://www.milwaukeeorthopaedics.com/dr-gordon-joint-disorder-specialist.html
This dude is the chief of sports medicine at Aurora and used to work with the Brewers.
https://www.aurorahealthcare.org/doctors/dr-theodore-h-gertel-md
I think they're fine.
Gordon is an awesome doc. Unfortunately, he's not the bucks team doc anymore. Usually team physicians are whoever pays the most money to the team. It's the main reason, why I would encourage everyone to get independent second opinions.
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My biggest criticism of the OP's post was calling it "dumb and dangerous." Those are some pretty disparaging words when you're talking about a collective decision by the medical staff, coaches, player and family.
Say you disagree with it or that you would have done it differently, but IMHO "dumb and dangerous" are terms best used for incompetence or malice, not simple disagreements.
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Wojo going off on this topic on his show right now.
Let's just say that they were in contact with not only the MU trainers but experts from around the country. Before the season and during the season.......
Said Sam and his family were totally informed and on board with the decisions that were made.
Wojo is understandably livid about the article that was written.
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Wojo is understandably livid about the article that was written.
Yep. It's one thing to disagree with a decision, but another to call it "dumb and dangerous."
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Yep. It's one thing to disagree with a decision, but another to call it "dumb and dangerous."
As I said, the article itself was more "dumb and dangerous" than playing Sam was. It was irresponsible.
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As I said, the article itself was more "dumb and dangerous" than playing Sam was. It was irresponsible.
Yep.
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Amazing how everyone with a keyboard and the internet is an expert these days, hey?
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Only thread that counts is “recruiting”. Sam will be okay. He is in the best hands money can buy.
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This keeps getting thrown around with zero evidence.
Understood on the rest of your post.
Go read the second post of this thread. I was the first to say that there was no evidence. We in this thread also have no evidence of the opposite.
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Dumbgerous?
Reading this bizarre thread i was wondering when it would reach the possimpible.
In all seriousness I think we're all missing the most important/Scoopiest question.......does 'dumb and dangerous' have the same meme legs as #donedeal?
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Wojo going off on this topic on his show right now.
Let's just say that they were in contact with not only the MU trainers but experts from around the country. Before the season and during the season.......
Said Sam and his family were totally informed and on board with the decisions that were made.
Wojo is understandably livid about the article that was written.
Wojo actually knows about the article? And cares? To the point of being livid? Yikes.
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Reading this bizarre thread i was wondering when it would reach the possimpible.
In all seriousness I think we're all missing the most important/Scoopiest question.......does 'dumb and dangerous' have the same meme legs as #donedeal?
Solid reference
(http://i1.wp.com/25.media.tumblr.com/fd9dd4a7d72d938d959e58e1dea4deff/tumblr_mgb8kxuLj71qcz348o10_r1_250.gif)
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Wojo actually knows about the article? And cares? To the point of being livid? Yikes.
Whats so odd about that? PT is pretty well known.
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Whats so odd about that? PT is pretty well known.
It is? I assumed it was just a blog with contributors writing for free because they're fans. I wouldn't expect it to be known at all outside of the MU fanbase. I don't really even expect it to be all that well known within the MU fanbase. Not the case?
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Wojo actually knows about the article? And cares? To the point of being livid? Yikes.
Maybe somebody showed it to him, or maybe he reads that site occasionally.
Whatever, nobody likes to see his or her integrity impugned.
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It is? I assumed it was just a blog with contributors writing for free because they're fans. I wouldn't expect it to be known at all outside of the MU fanbase. I don't really even expect it to be all that well known within the MU fanbase. Not the case?
We may be bums typing away in our attics, but we're popular bums!
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Maybe somebody showed it to him, or maybe he reads that site occasionally.
Whatever, nobody likes to see his or her integrity impugned.
Can't disagree with that, but coaches know that's going to happen to them. I'm surprised he acknowledged it, unless someone specifically brought it up. There are tons of blogs written about teams that regularly question coaches on their lineups, play calling, game planning, etc, etc. They can't respond to those kinds of things. I get that they're human and they want to defend themselves, but most just ignore this kind of stuff. If Ben Steele wrote it in the JS, that's one thing, but some online blog I think should be ignored. I have a feeling this board would be all over Gard or Mack, or Wright if they responded to a blog post.
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We may be bums typing away in our attics, but we're popular bums!
No disrespect meant to the PT team. I love the work and read the site regularly. I just didn't think it'd be on Wojo's radar.
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Only thread that counts is “recruiting”. Sam will be okay. He is in the best hands money can buy.
Smoked meats thread is pretty important too
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It is? I assumed it was just a blog with contributors writing for free because they're fans. I wouldn't expect it to be known at all outside of the MU fanbase. I don't really even expect it to be all that well known within the MU fanbase. Not the case?
Buzz alluded to them in a press conference once. They know about it.
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They know about PTs; they know about Scoop too; but not sure they listen to Joe/Eng :o. They're just smart enough not to read us, especially during the year.
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Can't disagree with that, but coaches know that's going to happen to them. I'm surprised he acknowledged it, unless someone specifically brought it up. There are tons of blogs written about teams that regularly question coaches on their lineups, play calling, game planning, etc, etc. They can't respond to those kinds of things. I get that they're human and they want to defend themselves, but most just ignore this kind of stuff. If Ben Steele wrote it in the JS, that's one thing, but some online blog I think should be ignored. I have a feeling this board would be all over Gard or Mack, or Wright if they responded to a blog post.
Homer brought up Sam's injury and impending surgery. Wojo never mentioned PT by name but it was clear who he was talking about as he made his points.
I'm sure Scott brought it to his attention.......https://twitter.com/uwpgrad1997/status/976518299331825664?s=21
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Smoked meats thread is pretty important too
And the NM thread.
#freetheNMthread
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Can't disagree with that, but coaches know that's going to happen to them. I'm surprised he acknowledged it, unless someone specifically brought it up. There are tons of blogs written about teams that regularly question coaches on their lineups, play calling, game planning, etc, etc. They can't respond to those kinds of things. I get that they're human and they want to defend themselves, but most just ignore this kind of stuff. If Ben Steele wrote it in the JS, that's one thing, but some online blog I think should be ignored. I have a feeling this board would be all over Gard or Mack, or Wright if they responded to a blog post.
There is a difference between somebody questioning the defense you choose to play or your substitution pattern ... and somebody accusing you of caring so little about one of your players that you would put him in a dangerous situation.
As to the difference between a newspaper and a blog ... the lines have been blurred for years. Everybody is "the media."
I don't blame Wojo for not being thrilled about this - and I'm one of the Scoopers who called him out for his poor comportment at a press conference last month.
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Reading this bizarre thread i was wondering when it would reach the possimpible.
In all seriousness I think we're all missing the most important/Scoopiest question.......does 'dumb and dangerous' have the same meme legs as #donedeal?
Let's give it a test run.
1) Bringing back the politics board would be dumb and dangerous.
2) Not buying AAPL at 90 is dumb and dangerous.
3) Eating red delicious apples would be dumb and dangerous.
Yep, I'd say it has serious meme potential.
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Let's give it a test run.
1) Bringing back the politics board would be dumb and dangerous.
2) Not buying AAPL at 90 is dumb and dangerous.
3) Eating red delicious apples would be dumb and dangerous.
Yep, I'd say it has serious meme potential.
When I was a teenager, my response to this woulda been: "Your mama's dumb and dangerous!" I learned not to make your mama jokes by the time I reached my 20s, though.
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When I was a teenager, my response to this woulda been: "You're mama's dumb and dangerous!" I learned not to make your mama jokes by the time I reached my 20s, though.
No, you are mama's dumb and dangerous.
Making "your mama" jokes also dumb and dangerous.
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No, you are mama's dumb and dangerous.
Making "your mama" jokes also dumb and dangerous.
Hilarious jokes like mine aren't as hilarious when I use the wrong form of "your." I blame Wojo!
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I don't blame Wojo for being upset. It calls his integrity into question along with the medical staff. That means another thing he has to explain to recruits and those looking for a reasons of doubt. Wojo cares about his players, doctors take an oath and use ethical reasoning about their patients and they have to deal with an article from someone that isn't in the medical profession, didn't interview Sam Hauser, and wildly speculated on what the decision was.
Yes, Wojo should be upset. A chance for the publication and author to admit they screwed up.
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"Everybody gets opinions even if they're dumb and dangerous."
Wojo went in. Homer asks around the 4 minute mark- http://www.espn.com/espnradio/playPopup?id=22875321
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"Everybody gets opinions even if they're dumb and dangerous."
Wojo went in. Homer asks around the 4 minute mark- http://www.espn.com/espnradio/playPopup?id=22875321
Great response by Wojo. Defending his player, defending his program, his staff, the medical people and himself. That was a polite tongue lashing. VERY GOOD WOJO!
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Great response by Wojo. Defending his player, defending his program, his staff, the medical people and himself. That was a polite tongue lashing. VERY GOOD WOJO!
Rather reminiscent of the time someone wrote about the "choking dogs of Marquette peeing down their legs..."
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Four minute mark.
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/playPopup?id=22875321
Wojo: "The story should be what a tough ass kid Sam Hauser is."
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Holy crap he even dropped a "dumb and dangerous" reference.
I like when Wojo gets salty.
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I enjoy it. When I have more time, I will listen to the rest. But that was cool
'misinformed....... uninformed.... or has an agenda
'Sam's a warrior'
Everyone gets an opinion.... even if they are dumb and dangerous.
Wojo is aware of the criticism.
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Just listened to it and I think that Wojo's response was perfect. Some may call him thin skinned, but he wasn't just defending criticism aimed at him, he was defending the entire medical staff involved with the diagnosis and treatment of Sam. Standing up for your guys, whether its players during a game, or staff in a situation like this reflects character, and that was the appropriate response given the situation.
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"Everybody gets opinions even if they're dumb and dangerous."
Wojo went in. Homer asks around the 4 minute mark- http://www.espn.com/espnradio/playPopup?id=22875321
Wojo is amazing for this. Love it.
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Can't disagree with that, but coaches know that's going to happen to them. I'm surprised he acknowledged it, unless someone specifically brought it up. There are tons of blogs written about teams that regularly question coaches on their lineups, play calling, game planning, etc, etc. They can't respond to those kinds of things. I get that they're human and they want to defend themselves, but most just ignore this kind of stuff. If Ben Steele wrote it in the JS, that's one thing, but some online blog I think should be ignored. I have a feeling this board would be all over Gard or Mack, or Wright if they responded to a blog post.
This is so wrong. Coaches are aware of everything and anything. As well they should be.
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Buzz sure knew message boards and blogs. I had several email exchanges with him over posts on Scoop. He knew what was out there, probably too much so.
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I enjoy it. When I have more time, I will listen to the rest. But that was cool
'misinformed....... uninformed.... or has an agenda
'Sam's a warrior'
Everyone gets an opinion.... even if they are dumb and dangerous.
Wojo is aware of the criticism.
"not sure if I'm allowed to say that"
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Wojo is amazing for this. Love it.
Totally agree. What Paint touches implied was extremely classless because they were questioning the integrity of many people, not just Wojo, and there was no basis for their attack. Happy to see his response and paint touches should be embarrassed.
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I went searching for a GIF capturing the essence of "dumb and dangerous." In that effort, I was unsuccessful, but in the process, my mad Googling skillz did lead me to something quite educational.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mootdanga
You're welcome.
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I don't blame Wojo for being upset. It calls his integrity into question along with the medical staff. That means another thing he has to explain to recruits and those looking for a reasons of doubt. Wojo cares about his players, doctors take an oath and use ethical reasoning about their patients and they have to deal with an article from someone that isn't in the medical profession, didn't interview Sam Hauser, and wildly speculated on what the decision was.
Yes, Wojo should be upset. A chance for the publication and author to admit they screwed up.
This is dead on. For those of us with professional careers, where trust and perception matter, it can be really frustrating having someone question one's integrity based upon bad info or bad speculation. He probably deals with enough made up stuff by other coach's without other speculation. If Wojo is upset, he should be, and he should be in order to stand up for his program, his doctors, his staff, his trainers, etc. Part of his job, even if it isn't a major newspaper article, is to represent and in this case defend the program.
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I do not think it was dumb or dangerous to play Sam, just think an extra month to get ready for next season made more sense.
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Wojo not responding would have been dumb and dangerous.
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This is so wrong. Coaches are aware of everything and anything. As well they should be.
There's a difference between being aware of something and responding to it in an interview or on some other platform. No offense to the PT crew here, but they're just amateur bloggers, fans that care enough to spend some time researching and writing about the team. I'm all for a coach or a player giving a friendly nod to these kind of pages, but to call them out is rare for a coach. I mean, he called the guys lazy for crying out loud. There are better ways to handle it than he did. He was super defensive, practically yelling for the full discussion about Sam.
I still think many of the people who think Wojo is the man for sticking it to the PT guys would balk at any other coach criticizing a blog post written by a fan.
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There's a difference between being aware of something and responding to it in an interview or on some other platform. No offense to the PT crew here, but they're just amateur bloggers, fans that care enough to spend some time researching and writing about the team. I'm all for a coach or a player giving a friendly nod to these kind of pages, but to call them out is rare for a coach. I mean, he called the guys lazy for crying out loud. There are better ways to handle it than he did. He was super defensive, practically yelling for the full discussion about Sam.
I still think many of the people who think Wojo is the man for sticking it to the PT guys would balk at any other coach criticizing a blog post written by a fan.
I called Wojo out for his response to a perfectly reasonable question by a student reporter during a press conference.
I applaud Wojo for vocally sticking up for the integrity of his coaching staff (including himself), his medical staff and his trainers.
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Wojo not responding would have been dumb and dangerous.
Realistically, do you think any recruits read that story? Do you think any donor read it or was swayed by it? Do you really think that a blog post, written by a fan, ultimately will have any impact on the MU basketball program? We, as fans, eat this stuff up. Anything written about the team makes for a fun read, but this isn't a cover story in the JS. It's a blog post. An opinion piece. This is being blown out of proportion.
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There's a difference between being aware of something and responding to it in an interview or on some other platform. No offense to the PT crew here, but they're just amateur bloggers, fans that care enough to spend some time researching and writing about the team. I'm all for a coach or a player giving a friendly nod to these kind of pages, but to call them out is rare for a coach. I mean, he called the guys lazy for crying out loud. There are better ways to handle it than he did. He was super defensive, practically yelling for the full discussion about Sam.
I still think many of the people who think Wojo is the man for sticking it to the PT guys would balk at any other coach criticizing a blog post written by a fan.
You may see PT thay way, but a throng of MU fans look at them as expert sources on the program. So if people start believing something because they write it, and WOJO thinks it's a problem, he has to stick up for his side of the story.
Yes it's rare for them to call out a blog like this. It's also rare for them to blast so caustically a health decision. So this is the rare example.
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I called Wojo out for his response to a perfectly reasonable question by a student reporter during a press conference.
I applaud Wojo for vocally sticking up for the integrity of his coaching staff (including himself), his medical staff and his trainers.
+1
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I called Wojo out for his response to a perfectly reasonable question by a student reporter during a press conference.
I applaud Wojo for vocally sticking up for the integrity of his coaching staff (including himself), his medical staff and his trainers.
He should stick up for his staff and the doctors. But it should be done in a better way. I think his talking points were good. I think mentioning that the Hauser family and Sam were at the top of his priority list is important to note. But I think the angry, defensive tone and specifically calling out the PT post is over the top and is beneath a head coach of a major program.
If he would have taken the approach of saying that he knows some people may be concerned that Sam playing could cause further injury but the docs gave the OK, that's much different to me. I think Calipari does a great job of this when it comes to addressing criticism. Acknowledging the intent of the criticism - wanting Sam to be healthy - and then explaining the decision making comes across much better.
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Realistically, do you think any recruits read that story? Do you think any donor read it or was swayed by it? Do you really think that a blog post, written by a fan, ultimately will have any impact on the MU basketball program? We, as fans, eat this stuff up. Anything written about the team makes for a fun read, but this isn't a cover story in the JS. It's a blog post. An opinion piece. This is being blown out of proportion.
To be fair, Homer did ask specifically about Sam's hip. If they had gone the entire hour without talking about Sam's injury and surgery I don't think Wojo brings it up.
To answer your question, no, I don't think it will have any impact on recruiting, and any impact on the program as a whole would be marginal at best, but Wojo standing up for his staff when they don't really have much of a platform to stand up for themselves is the right thing to do. This is the off season, mountains are made of mole hills, its what happens.
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He should stick up for his staff and the doctors. But it should be done in a better way. I think his talking points were good. I think mentioning that the Hauser family and Sam were at the top of his priority list is important to note. But I think the angry, defensive tone and specifically calling out the PT post is over the top and is beneath a head coach of a major program.
If he would have taken the approach of saying that he knows some people may be concerned that Sam playing could cause further injury but the docs gave the OK, that's much different to me. I think Calipari does a great job of this when it comes to addressing criticism. Acknowledging the intent of the criticism - wanting Sam to be healthy - and then explaining the decision making comes across much better.
He comes off pretty classless when he won't shake the opposing teams hands. Even Crean would do the blowby
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He should stick up for his staff and the doctors. But it should be done in a better way. I think his talking points were good. I think mentioning that the Hauser family and Sam were at the top of his priority list is important to note. But I think the angry, defensive tone and specifically calling out the PT post is over the top and is beneath a head coach of a major program.
If he would have taken the approach of saying that he knows some people may be concerned that Sam playing could cause further injury but the docs gave the OK, that's much different to me. I think Calipari does a great job of this when it comes to addressing criticism. Acknowledging the intent of the criticism - wanting Sam to be healthy - and then explaining the decision making comes across much better.
You're wrong. His tone was not defensive in the least. He laid out what Marquette did in a very straight-forward manner. And you are also completely wrong about Paint Touches being some sort of fringe site. A significant portion of the fanbase pays attention to it.
And frankly I am disappointed that PT is now retweeting it and trolling for more page views. If that's what the site is going to become...f*ck it...I'll find my Marquette news elsewhere.
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To be fair, Homer did ask specifically about Sam's hip. If they had gone the entire hour without talking about Sam's injury and surgery I don't think Wojo brings it up.
It was pretty obvious to me that Homer was asked to bring up Sam's hip.
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It was pretty obvious to me that Homer was asked to bring up Sam's hip.
My point was that Wojo didn't just bring it up out of the blue just so he could blast PT. If for whatever reason Homer wasn't asked to ask about it and they spend the entire hour talking about what AR means to the program and the growth of the Freshman and other stuff that you could talk about in a end of season review Wojo probably wouldn't have mentioned Sam's hip at all.
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You're wrong. His tone was not defensive in the least. He laid out what Marquette did in a very straight-forward manner. And you are also completely wrong about Paint Touches being some sort of fringe site. A significant portion of the fanbase pays attention to it.
And frankly I am disappointed that PT is now retweeting it and trolling for more page views. If that's what the site is going to become...f*ck it...I'll find my Marquette news elsewhere.
+1 .. although I do think Wojo was (properly) being defensive.
Paint Touches should either remove their post, or add an addendum: OOPS, NEVER MIND, we were talking out of our asses.
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He should stick up for his staff and the doctors. But it should be done in a better way. I think his talking points were good. I think mentioning that the Hauser family and Sam were at the top of his priority list is important to note. But I think the angry, defensive tone and specifically calling out the PT post is over the top and is beneath a head coach of a major program.
If he would have taken the approach of saying that he knows some people may be concerned that Sam playing could cause further injury but the docs gave the OK, that's much different to me. I think Calipari does a great job of this when it comes to addressing criticism. Acknowledging the intent of the criticism - wanting Sam to be healthy - and then explaining the decision making comes across much better.
I think his indignant tone is much better. I can relate to it and empathize.
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My point was that Wojo didn't just bring it up out of the blue just so he could blast PT. If for whatever reason Homer wasn't asked to ask about it and they spend the entire hour talking about what AR means to the program and the growth of the Freshman and other stuff that you could talk about in a end of season review Wojo probably wouldn't have mentioned Sam's hip at all.
My point is that Wojo wanted that question asked just so he could blast the PT article. So Homer set it up for him.
And so I actually don't agree with you. Had Homer for whatever reason, not asked the question, Wojo would have brought it up.
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You're wrong. His tone was not defensive in the least. He laid out what Marquette did in a very straight-forward manner. And you are also completely wrong about Paint Touches being some sort of fringe site. A significant portion of the fanbase pays attention to it.
And frankly I am disappointed that PT is now retweeting it and trolling for more page views. If that's what the site is going to become...f*ck it...I'll find my Marquette news elsewhere.
You may be tone deaf. He was basically yelling. You could tell he was mad.
As far as the reach of PT, the tweet with the story in it has 2 retweets, 10 likes, and 7 comments. Not exactly breaking the internet. If the fanbase consisted of 12 people, maybe this could be considered significant. Since the fanbase is a tad bigger than 12, I think it's fair to say that this will have no impact whatsoever.
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My point is that Wojo wanted that question asked just so he could blast the PT article. So Homer set it up for him.
And so I actually don't agree with you. Had Homer for whatever reason, not asked the question, Wojo would have brought it up.
I really, really, really, hope this isn't the case. If Wojo set this up to go off on a fan who wrote a blog post, he's even more thin skinned than I thought. Addressing Sam's health is one thing, attacking a fan is another thing entirely.
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You may be tone deaf. He was basically yelling. You could tell he was mad.
I didn't say he wasn't mad. I said he wasn't defensive.
As far as the reach of PT, the tweet with the story in it has 2 retweets, 10 likes, and 7 comments. Not exactly breaking the internet. If the fanbase consisted of 12 people, maybe this could be considered significant. Since the fanbase is a tad bigger than 12, I think it's fair to say that this will have no impact whatsoever.
Again, you don't realize the impact. PT has a pretty significant following among the fanbase.
But keep being wrong. You're wrong a lot. You should be used to it.
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My point is that Wojo wanted that question asked just so he could blast the PT article. So Homer set it up for him.
And so I actually don't agree with you. Had Homer for whatever reason, not asked the question, Wojo would have brought it up.
Wojo probably knew the question was going to be asked so we'll never know, but I don't think that the second that Wojo read the article he immediately was thinking of ways to blast PT. If Wojo doesn't have a weekly interview with Homer I don't think he takes to twitter or some other medium just to blast PT, he wouldn't have had that kind of agenda.
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I really, really, really, hope this isn't the case. If Wojo set this up to go off on a fan who wrote a blog post, he's even more thin skinned than I thought. Addressing Sam's health is one thing, attacking a fan is another thing entirely.
He isn't attacking a fan. He's attacking a blog with 6,000 twitter followers.
So you are wrong...again.
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My point is that Wojo wanted that question asked just so he could blast the PT article. So Homer set it up for him.
And so I actually don't agree with you. Had Homer for whatever reason, not asked the question, Wojo would have brought it up.
I'm in your camp on this. Right after the beginning of the show 'pleasantries' it's 5+ minutes of addressing this, no way that wasn't set up.
Wojo is 100% right to address it and he did a great job.
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Wojo probably knew the question was going to be asked so we'll never know, but I don't think that the second that Wojo read the article he immediately was thinking of ways to blast PT. If Wojo doesn't have a weekly interview with Homer I don't think he takes to twitter or some other medium just to blast PT, he wouldn't have had that kind of agenda.
No but he knew he had a radio show and knew he wanted it addressed. The fact that Scott Kuykendall tweeted about it leads me to believe they developed this very strategy yesterday.
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He isn't attacking a fan. He's attacking a blog with 6,000 twitter followers.
So you are wrong...again.
PT is an amateur blog. They write for free. The write about the team because....they're fans. They have no impact on the MU program.
Can anyone from PT tell us how many views that page got? I can guarantee it's far fewer than 6,000.
Do you ever get up on the right side of the bed? You're always so angry when someone disagrees with you.
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I really, really, really, hope this isn't the case. If Wojo set this up to go off on a fan who wrote a blog post, he's even more thin skinned than I thought. Addressing Sam's health is one thing, attacking a fan is another thing entirely.
If the article was "Playing Hauser was risky, with little reward" then Wojo probably doesn't worry about it.
"Dumb and dangerous" coming from someone with limited knowledge of the situation...that has to be addressed. Otherwise people might start thinking Wojo risks his players health for his own selfish gains. Nip it in the bud, even if very few people believe it at first. Failing to do so is how we end up with flat earthers.
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You may be tone deaf. He was basically yelling. You could tell he was mad.
As far as the reach of PT, the tweet with the story in it has 2 retweets, 10 likes, and 7 comments. Not exactly breaking the internet. If the fanbase consisted of 12 people, maybe this could be considered significant. Since the fanbase is a tad bigger than 12, I think it's fair to say that this will have no impact whatsoever.
Defensive yes. "basically yelling" no.
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PT is an amateur blog. They write for free. The write about the team because....they're fans. They have no impact on the MU program.
Can anyone from PT tell us how many views that page got? I can guarantee it's far fewer than 6,000.
Do you ever get up on the right side of the bed? You're always so angry when someone disagrees with you.
There's nothing to disagree with. You are wrong and failing to see how you are wrong.
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It is I, the dumb and dangerous one. Appreciate the feedback. I think the problem is the headline, not the actual article.
But the reaction to a post that has barely 1000 reads is pretty funny. I've been called out by the SID on Twitter, told by the Admin to change the headline, and talked about on the radio for 10 minutes. Again, for a column that got less clicks than a an average post. It makes no sense to me.
You all read my stuff, what agenda would you say I promote? (I am lazy in the offseason, so guilty as charged. But ya'll never click on anything but Ryan's transfer tracker anyways.)
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PT is an amateur blog. They write for free. The write about the team because....they're fans. They have no impact on the MU program.
Can anyone from PT tell us how many views that page got? I can guarantee it's far fewer than 6,000.
Do you ever get up on the right side of the bed? You're always so angry when someone disagrees with you.
Didn't everyone blame PT for Embiid not coming here because of something they said on Twitter?
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No but he knew he had a radio show and knew he wanted it addressed. The fact that Scott Kuykendall tweeted about it leads me to believe they developed this very strategy yesterday.
I agree that Wojo knew that it'd come up and planned on how he would address it, but let me throw a hypothetical out there for you.
If PT were to have published this article a week later, so Wojo would have had no scheduled media appearance, do you think he seeks out a reporter or Homer just to blast PT? I don't think he would have. I would be willing to bet that the first question on next seasons basketball hour will be about how people are recovering, and he could have addressed it then saying something along the lines of there being a report that Sams health wasn't our #1 priority and that was completely false, but if he were to go running to a reporter just to discredit PT, that would imply IMO that he had an agenda too.
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Didn't everyone blame PT for Embiid not coming here because of something they said on Twitter?
That was Anonymous Eagle I believe.
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He isn't attacking a fan. He's attacking a blog with 6,000 twitter followers.
So you are wrong...again.
Oh look, genius, only 1,000 clicks on the article. I'd say that probably represents, what, maybe 2% - 3% of the fanbase, conservatively. Looks like you're still more angry than right.
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That was Anonymous Eagle I believe.
That was PT under previous ownership. The people on a different board literally said they would fight Mark when they saw him for saying he would go to Kansas if he was Embiid.
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Oh look, genius, only 1,000 clicks on the article. I'd say that probably represents, what, maybe 2% - 3% of the fanbase, conservatively. Looks like you're still more angry than right.
I think 1,000 is significant. So no. You are wrong.
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WOW. Good for coach. That was the most passionate response I've ever heard from him. Forceful and to the point.
And without being personal and mentioning any names, it was laser beam directed. I'd advise walking in pairs past the Al going forward.
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Oh look, genius, only 1,000 clicks on the article. I'd say that probably represents, what, maybe 2% - 3% of the fanbase, conservatively. Looks like you're still more angry than right.
It was clearly enough to be contacted by the admin. I agree that this is kinda getting blown out of proportion, but completely understand Wojos response
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His reaction may be warranted in this case. But he also blocked me on Twitter for telling him to learn how to coach defense better. So yeah, coach is a little thin-skinned as well.
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It was clearly enough to be contacted by the admin. I agree that this is kinda getting blown out of proportion, but completely understand Wojos response
Yep. It’s not just about numbers but who is reading.
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That was PT under previous ownership. The people on a different board literally said they would fight Mark when they saw him for saying he would go to Kansas if he was Embiid.
Lol. Thanks. I remember that.
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I think 1,000 is significant. So no. You are wrong.
Isn't Social Media also about the ripple effects so now the 1,000 becomes......???
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Wojo: "Analytics show Free Throws are the best shot you can get, 3's, layups, contested shots. Offenses generally will be build around those things."
Having said that, let's hope we start to foul less, and not get crushed in the FT attempts battle. Let's foul less.
As for the angry and defensive tone Wojo took to the PT article - he's in bounds to be upset. Do think it was a little over the top, however.
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Isn't Social Media also about the ripple effects so now the 1,000 becomes......???
Not only that but Wojo’s radio show speaks largely to the same audience. It’s not like he went off on an ESPN interview broadcast nationwide.
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I guess the question is who those thousand are. If it's the most die-hard, superfan types, it's probably not a bad idea to nip it in the bud. Because the same people that listen to the Marquette Basketball Hour are the ones reading PT, AE, and listening to the MU pods.
He knows the audience he is speaking to. It's us.
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I guess the question is who those thousand are. If it's the most die-hard, superfan types, it's probably not a bad idea to nip it in the bud. Because the same people that listen to the Marquette Basketball Hour are the ones reading PT, AE, and listening to the MU pods.
He knows the audience he is speaking to. It's us.
My PT insight on the digital MU fanbase:
250 or so that will click on anything at any point in the year
750 or so that are active during the season
1500 or so that are active during March
3000+ that are active during the NCAA Tournament
5K+ that will click on anything bashing Buzz
In general, there has been a pretty large gap from Buzz to Wojo, but mediocre teams for 5 years will do that.
As for Wojo, he declined an interview request for the story.
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I think 1,000 is significant. So no. You are wrong.
Here you are again, calling me wrong for having a different opinion than you. I think I am right, so you must be wrong. Not a great argument.
1,000 clicks on a blog isn't even likely to be from 1,000 unique people. You can think that roughly 1,000 people is significant, but in the grand scheme of what that represents of the fanbase or the university community, it's minimal.
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Wojo probably knew the question was going to be asked so we'll never know.
Wait, so Wojo was playing mind games... WITH HIMSELF??
<head explodes>
(https://y.yarn.co/14a7943b-7acd-40a5-a7f6-b8d41a26b3c3_text_hi.gif)
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It is I, the dumb and dangerous one. Appreciate the feedback. I think the problem is the headline, not the actual article.
But the reaction to a post that has barely 1000 reads is pretty funny. I've been called out by the SID on Twitter, told by the Admin to change the headline, and talked about on the radio for 10 minutes. Again, for a column that got less clicks than a an average post. It makes no sense to me.
You all read my stuff, what agenda would you say I promote? (I am lazy in the offseason, so guilty as charged. But ya'll never click on anything but Ryan's transfer tracker anyways.)
You forgot "journalistically lazy."
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Andrei - Congratulations.... it took a few years, but you finally got your own 8-page thread along with all of the other "kudos" from the MU passionate.
You are now an elite journalist, and I say that with complete sincerity. Well done.
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I think the reason the coach is a little pissed at the article or the headline is because he does not want a potential recruit or family member of a recruit or a school competing for a recruit that MU is recruiting to have that be a negative mark against us and may be a partial reason we loose out on a recruit. I personally think the coaching staff did a good job handling the injuries to the team this year.
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I think the reason the coach is a little pissed at the article or the headline is because he does not want a potential recruit or family member of a recruit or a school competing for a recruit that MU is recruiting to have that be a negative mark against us and may be a partial reason we loose out on a recruit. I personally think the coaching staff did a good job handling the injuries to the team this year.
Never thought of that angle, but it makes sense. There's plenty of negative recruiting these days, so the last thing he'd want is an opposing coach showing a recruit that headline from a pro-MU blog. I can just hear the spin: "Son, do you really want to play for a coach who would abuse his players like that?"
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Someone referred to the last 3 games as exhibition games. These were played like tournament games and if playing Sam with the doctor's blessing got a young team 3 tournament games of experience, I'm all for it.
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First, the season doesn't start in six months. Practice doesn't even start in six months. The first team practice is seven months away. At earliest, the first game is about eight months away.
#FakeNews
#Lies
You need a calendar, bub
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PT is an amateur blog. They write for free. The write about the team because....they're fans. They have no impact on the MU program.
Can anyone from PT tell us how many views that page got? I can guarantee it's far fewer than 6,000.
Do you ever get up on the right side of the bed? You're always so angry when someone disagrees with you.
Doesn't matter if it is an amateur blog, so are the same types of blogs for every team in the country and they reflect an opinion by some of the fan base. PT is a good site, but this article and the title of it was impugning the integrity of many people.
It is one thing to write an article saying how dumb a substitution is, or why we scheduled certain teams, or blew a game. This article was calling out the character of Marquette's doctors, training staff, coaching staff and Hauser + Hauser family. All without any experts, but merely an opinion. Even if PT had gone to a doctor for their opinion, any medical professional worth their stuff would decline because Mr. Hauser isn't their patient and would not share that information publicly.
This one was over the line because of the subject and the accusation. Wojo and staff should be plenty upset. PT should apologize in a blog statement.
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Doesn't matter if it is an amateur blog, so are the same types of blogs for every team in the country and they reflect an opinion by some of the fan base. PT is a good site, but this article and the title of it was impugning the integrity of many people.
It is one thing to write an article saying how dumb a substitution is, or why we scheduled certain teams, or blew a game. This article was calling out the character of Marquette's doctors, training staff, coaching staff and Hauser + Hauser family. All without any experts, but merely an opinion. Even if PT had gone to a doctor for their opinion, any medical professional worth their stuff would decline because Mr. Hauser isn't their patient and would not share that information publicly.
This one was over the line because of the subject and the accusation. Wojo and staff should be plenty upset. PT should apologize in a blog statement.
In this context, how would you classify calling the players "choking dogs who pee themselves"?
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Doesn't matter if it is an amateur blog, so are the same types of blogs for every team in the country and they reflect an opinion by some of the fan base. PT is a good site, but this article and the title of it was impugning the integrity of many people.
It is one thing to write an article saying how dumb a substitution is, or why we scheduled certain teams, or blew a game. This article was calling out the character of Marquette's doctors, training staff, coaching staff and Hauser + Hauser family. All without any experts, but merely an opinion. Even if PT had gone to a doctor for their opinion, any medical professional worth their stuff would decline because Mr. Hauser isn't their patient and would not share that information publicly.
This one was over the line because of the subject and the accusation. Wojo and staff should be plenty upset. PT should apologize in a blog statement.
Agreed. The article asserted that Wojo and his staff don't have Sam's best interests at heart, without any knowledge or evidence to support that assertion. That is misinformed and lazy at the very least. I think you could argue there's an agenda, as well. The article didn't simply raise a question; it stated total speculation as fact, and maligned the MU basketball program without cause.
Backpedaling at this point is inadequate. The size of the audience and whether Wojo declined an interview request are irrelevant. The article was dumb and dangerous. PT should take it off the website and issue a full retraction and apology.
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I took another look at the article (which I just skimmed the first time), and there is an unforgivable error: a complete misinterpretation of both the substance and relevance of one of the key citations.
Misinterpretation of the Substance
He quotes an article from the Orthopaedic Journal of Sports Medicine, and then goes on to totally miss the boat on what you can (and can't) take away from the publication. The study was a "descriptive epidemiological" study...which basically means it only looked at historical data relating to pelvis, hip and thigh injuries. Specifically, the article looked at reported injuries in the NBA from the 1988-89 through 2011-12 seasons. Then he quoted this passage:
The actual amount of intra-articular hip disorders may be underestimated, as the awareness of these disorders has increased only in the past decade. With the awareness of the types of injuries that occur in this region, injury prevention strategies focused on these may be beneficial to players and teams at all levels of competition, not only professional-level athletes.
And drew this conclusion:
So hip injuries are commonly underestimated....
WRONG!!!
The excerpt from the article simply told us that the authors felt hip injuries may have been underreported in the early part of the study (back in the 80s and 90s), and they explicitly told us why: because the awareness of these disorders has increased only in the past decade.
In other words, doctors now likely do a much better job at diagnosing and reporting these injures than they did in the past. So Sam's case was clearly not from the "underreporting" era.
Misinterpretation of the Relevance
The quoted passage was essentially telling us that doctors probably didn't diagnose and report hip injuries as much in the 80s and 90s because they weren't looking for them as much, so we should probably assume that the actual incidence today is higher than their study would indicate.
That is totally irrelevant to Sam's case...because Sam's hip injury had already been diagnosed.
So yeah...Wojo has a right to be angry because of the inflammatory headline, and beyond the headline, the "scientific data" was badly misused.
I don't care if you're working for the New York Times or just freelancing for some blog. If you want to develop and maintain any journalistic integrity, you have to understand the authorities you cite, and cite them only when they are relevant to your premise. Disappointing to say the least.
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In this context, how would you classify calling the players "choking dogs who pee themselves"?
Give me the context, what does the phrase mean?
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Someone referred to the last 3 games as exhibition games. These were played like tournament games and if playing Sam with the doctor's blessing got a young team 3 tournament games of experience, I'm all for it.
If someone is saying the last three games were exhibition games, they have an agenda more than likely. Tell Al McGuire the NIT was an exhibition game. Tell those kids crying in the locker room. A dumb but not dangerous comment.
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Buzz sure knew message boards and blogs. I had several email exchanges with him over posts on Scoop. He knew what was out there, probably too much so.
Mrs Buzz would scour the internet looking for stuff on Buzz. Someone in the AD referred to it is an obsession.
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I just googled Marquette Sam Hauser injury. The paint touches piece was 24th on the list. Easily findable for those who either want to read it or use it for "evil."
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Mrs Buzz would scour the internet looking for stuff on Buzz. Someone in the AD referred to it is an obsession.
She was probably expected to give a daily briefing.
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I just googled Marquette Sam Hauser injury. The paint touches piece was 24th on the list. Easily findable for those who either want to read it or use it for "evil."
Is this part serious or tongue in cheek?
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She was probably expected to give a daily briefing.
So that's what the William's called it.
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Is this part serious or tongue in cheek?
Might be a reference to the possibility that coaches might use it as a negative recruiting tactic. "Even their own fans think they endanger their players just for an extra win or two."
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Give me the context, what does the phrase mean?
LOL @ Chicos playing dumb
You've publicly maligned players on a well-read MU blog before. It was disgusting, embarrassing, and completely agenda driven. Now you're on a high horse lecturing another blog. High comedy!
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It is I, the dumb and dangerous one. Appreciate the feedback. I think the problem is the headline, not the actual article.
But the reaction to a post that has barely 1000 reads is pretty funny. I've been called out by the SID on Twitter, told by the Admin to change the headline, and talked about on the radio for 10 minutes. Again, for a column that got less clicks than a an average post. It makes no sense to me.
You all read my stuff, what agenda would you say I promote? (I am lazy in the offseason, so guilty as charged. But ya'll never click on anything but Ryan's transfer tracker anyways.)
I disagree with your point at the start of the thread, but that in no way means you are absolutely wrong.
I appreciate the opinion, even if it isn't what I believe. The last thing we want here is people posting what they want other people to like.
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Might be a reference to the possibility that coaches might use it as a negative recruiting tactic. "Even their own fans think they endanger their players just for an extra win or two."
This is ranging in tin foil hat territory. Anyone who sees that post as more than a single fan's view is crazy. They should definitely stay away from twitter. If recruits buy into the garbage online, they'd never be able to pick a school. Fans aren't reliable sources of information. I would assume recruits are fully aware of that.
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This is ranging in tin foil hat territory. Anyone who sees that post as more than a single fan's view is crazy. They should definitely stay away from twitter. If recruits buy into the garbage online, they'd never be able to pick a school. Fans aren't reliable sources of information. I would assume recruits are fully aware of that.
17 year old boys will believe a lot of things.
It goes beyond that, without any professional backing the medical staff, the player, the coach, the staff were called not only into question, but accused of putting him at risk. That goes beyond having an opinion, that goes over the line. It is not as if they were ripping the staff for substitution patterns, the schedule, the plays drawn up, blowing a lead, playing man on man vs a zone. This was much more. PT is a good site, we should all have opinions, but when one is implying that a staff was putting a players well being in question without any proof or medical opinion to back it up, that is a different level.
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Is this part serious or tongue in cheek?
Yes
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Yes
I'm good with this.
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Assclown writes assclown opinion, while grasping for straws at reality.
That's sports journalism in 2018. PT is just following the real journalist's lead.
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My PT insight on the digital MU fanbase:
250 or so that will click on anything at any point in the year
750 or so that are active during the season
1500 or so that are active during March
3000+ that are active during the NCAA Tournament
5K+ that will click on anything bashing Buzz
In general, there has been a pretty large gap from Buzz to Wojo, but mediocre teams for 5 years will do that.
As for Wojo, he declined an interview request for the story.
So this article, whether intentionally or not, is targeting the highest traffic time of year when you anticipate the most clicks.
I think the issue and why Wojo lashed out how he did is twofold. First, you write a Marquette based blog and essentially did an attack piece on the integrity of the staff and the program. The headline especially impugned their character and asserted they are being reckless with Sam's future.
Second, you did so without knowledge of the situation. You asked one medical professional not familiar with the injury or patient and they referred you to academic articles that may or may not have any relevance whatsoever to Sam's situation. That's lazy journalism. Unless you are talking to people actually familiar with the situation or find multiple sources that can go on the record about this specific injury, you are not doing your job.
I also understand your counterpoints. That Paint Touches is not beholden to Marquette basketball and you have no obligation to protect the program. That's true, but I'd say first that PT wouldn't exist without Marquette Basketball and second PT also has no obligation to libel Marquette Basketball without having done complete research.
In addition, I imagine you feel that as a blog with only a few thousand followers and not a real publication, you don't have the reach of JSOnline or the other bigger media outlets. To that, I'd say that media is changing and sources that were once on the fringe are more readily available and should be held to the same professional standard the bigger outlets are if they want to be taken seriously. Any fan, player, recruit, or rival coach can find and use this stuff however they like.
I think for the most part the content was okay. Writing an opinion piece is just that. But I think it's important to label it clearly as such and the headline doesn't do that. Had the headline been "Should Sam Hauser Have Been Shut Down?" no one would've batted an eye.
As far as getting Wojo to interview for this...it's seemingly more difficult to get to this staff than past ones. I imagine writing pieces they view as attacks won't make getting those interviews easier in the future.
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This isn't an attack piece. This is certainly not libel. And any concern that this would be used in an effort to hurt the MU program is a massive stretch. And on top of all that, it wasn't lazy. The most damning thing said in the article was - "So all of this is to say, Wojo and Sam took a very unnecessary risk by playing Hauser in the NIT and didn’t really reap any rewards." That's pretty mild stuff.
The headline, like many headlines today, is louder than the content. The actual article doesn't say that Wojo or the doctors put their interests ahead of Sam's. It doesn't say anything that would question the integrity of anyone in the program. It just offers an opinion that any possible risk of furthering the injury was not worth the benefit of the additional games he played. It actually blatantly says that he's sure doctors gave Sam the OK to play, clearly noting that they played an important role in the decision.
Here are direct quotes from the article that everyone seems to have missed, which is probably why this is being blown out of proportion. They are very obviously just one man's opinion. Nothing to get too worked up over. They're also pretty tame in comparison to most criticism thrown around on the internet.
"if I was on the coaching staff, I would take the decision out of Sam’s hands and tell him to get right"
"I don’t care what odds the doctors gave Sam for making the injury worse. Any odds, no matter how minimal, was not worth the potential for long term damage"
As far as calling this lazy journalism, come on, it's a freakin blog. The article cites a couple of medical journals and also links to 2 or 3 other stories/clips, all of which were used to explain the opinion expressed throughout the story. That's pretty darn good for a guy doing this for free. Could more effort have been put into the medical side of it? Sure, there's always more research possible. But I think he went well beyond the standard for most bloggers.
I think the reaction to this story from the board here and from the program is over the top. I see this as another example of Wojo being a bit thin skinned and hope this will be a learning moment for him as he matures as a coach. There, I've said my peace. I don't think I can beat this to death much more.
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I had no problem with Wojo’s response except for his suggestion, which he made multiple times, of an agenda. That was overly defensive. To me it reaked a bit of him having a victims mentality
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This isn't an attack piece. This is certainly not libel. And any concern that this would be used in an effort to hurt the MU program is a massive stretch. And on top of all that, it wasn't lazy. The most damning thing said in the article was - "So all of this is to say, Wojo and Sam took a very unnecessary risk by playing Hauser in the NIT and didn’t really reap any rewards." That's pretty mild stuff.
The headline, like many headlines today, is louder than the content..
Actually, the headline is obviously the opinion drawn by the writer based on what he presented in the blog.
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This isn't an attack piece. This is certainly not libel. And any concern that this would be used in an effort to hurt the MU program is a massive stretch. And on top of all that, it wasn't lazy. The most damning thing said in the article was - "So all of this is to say, Wojo and Sam took a very unnecessary risk by playing Hauser in the NIT and didn’t really reap any rewards." That's pretty mild stuff.
The headline, like many headlines today, is louder than the content. The actual article doesn't say that Wojo or the doctors put their interests ahead of Sam's. It doesn't say anything that would question the integrity of anyone in the program. It just offers an opinion that any possible risk of furthering the injury was not worth the benefit of the additional games he played. It actually blatantly says that he's sure doctors gave Sam the OK to play, clearly noting that they played an important role in the decision.
Here are direct quotes from the article that everyone seems to have missed, which is probably why this is being blown out of proportion. They are very obviously just one man's opinion. Nothing to get too worked up over. They're also pretty tame in comparison to most criticism thrown around on the internet.
"if I was on the coaching staff, I would take the decision out of Sam’s hands and tell him to get right"
"I don’t care what odds the doctors gave Sam for making the injury worse. Any odds, no matter how minimal, was not worth the potential for long term damage"
As far as calling this lazy journalism, come on, it's a freakin blog. The article cites a couple of medical journals and also links to 2 or 3 other stories/clips, all of which were used to explain the opinion expressed throughout the story. That's pretty darn good for a guy doing this for free. Could more effort have been put into the medical side of it? Sure, there's always more research possible. But I think he went well beyond the standard for most bloggers.
I think the reaction to this story from the board here and from the program is over the top. I see this as another example of Wojo being a bit thin skinned and hope this will be a learning moment for him as he matures as a coach. There, I've said my peace. I don't think I can beat this to death much more.
I see this post as another example of you not knowing what you are talking about.
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Assclown writes assclown opinion, while grasping for straws at reality.
That's sports journalism in 2018. PT is just following the real journalist's lead.
Yep, just a Follower, with Clip Baiting Headlines.
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We can argue all day about the article itself. Many here already have.
The headline clearly impugned the integrity of the coach, as well as Marquette's medical personnel and training staff.
It was a dumb & dangerous headline, and PT should be better than that.
Thankfully, they almost always are. I hope this was an aberration and not the "new normal."
All of the above is IMHO, of course.
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The PT piece was very relevant, and let's face it, the theme of it (Sam's performance impacted) was on our minds as it was clear from just watching, especially after DePaul. Who here can't admit this wasn't on our minds?
IMO, it should have stopped there and not delved into the medical speculation as fact...although, asking open ended questions on a blog piece is fine like "will it impact his recovery?". I just think it crossed that line which caused Wojo to defend the program in a more public way. Clearly, the Hausers where in line and informed along the way, and I know MU's medical staff is top notch.
I appreciate the work from the PT crew, including being provacative...I just think this piece went more definitive than it should have on the conclusion.
Let's move on.
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The PT piece was very relevant, and let's face it, the theme of it (Sam's performance impacted) was on our minds as it was clear from just watching, especially after DePaul. Who here can't admit this wasn't on our minds?
IMO, it should have stopped there and not delved into the medical speculation as fact...although, asking open ended questions on a blog piece is fine like "will it impact his recovery?". I just think it crossed that line which caused Wojo to defend the program in a more public way. Clearly, the Hausers where in line and informed along the way, and I know MU's medical staff is top notch.
I appreciate the work from the PT crew, including being provacative...I just think this piece went more definitive than it should have on the conclusion.
Let's move on.
This is well said. Generally PT and Andrei write great content. Even the best of the best miss the mark at times.
As valuable as Sam is to the team, it does bear asking, why was he played SO many minutes as the season wore on? Since February 3rd, up until the Harvard game (when it was clear Sam was very limited) Sam averaged ~36 minutes per game. He tweaked his knee in the DePaul game Feb 24 and 2 days later he played 43 minutes at GTown.
It does bear mentioning - perhaps due to some change in strength and conditioning approach - that since Wojo arrived, we've been injury free in the sense of not having any key players miss any games. Pretty remarkable over a 4-year run.
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The PT piece was very relevant, and let's face it, the theme of it (Sam's performance impacted) was on our minds as it was clear from just watching, especially after DePaul. Who here can't admit this wasn't on our minds?
IMO, it should have stopped there and not delved into the medical speculation as fact...although, asking open ended questions on a blog piece is fine like "will it impact his recovery?". I just think it crossed that line which caused Wojo to defend the program in a more public way. Clearly, the Hausers where in line and informed along the way, and I know MU's medical staff is top notch.
I appreciate the work from the PT crew, including being provacative...I just think this piece went more definitive than it should have on the conclusion.
Let's move on.
Absolutely - the topic was fair game for discussion, as it was very relevant.
The hopelessly misguided interpretation of a medical publication was just way off base, and the headline was insulting. He would be wise to tone down his rhetoric, and needs to stay far away from the medical field.
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The PT piece was very relevant, and let's face it, the theme of it (Sam's performance impacted) was on our minds as it was clear from just watching, especially after DePaul. Who here can't admit this wasn't on our minds?
IMO, it should have stopped there and not delved into the medical speculation as fact...although, asking open ended questions on a blog piece is fine like "will it impact his recovery?". I just think it crossed that line which caused Wojo to defend the program in a more public way. Clearly, the Hausers where in line and informed along the way, and I know MU's medical staff is top notch.
I appreciate the work from the PT crew, including being provacative...I just think this piece went more definitive than it should have on the conclusion.
Let's move on.
+1
Well stated. The issue wasn't the topic, but the headline and definitive conclusion.
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LOL @ Chicos playing dumb
You've publicly maligned players on a well-read MU blog before. It was disgusting, embarrassing, and completely agenda driven. Now you're on a high horse lecturing another blog. High comedy!
Ok Chicos, you are starting to get on my nerves.
I asked for a reference or context, but you didn't provide. What players am I publicly maligning and what does your phrase even mean?
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Did some research this weekend. Return to play after FAI for professional soccer players was on average 9 months. However, national team players was closer to 5.7 months. Not much info on basketball players.
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0363546517738741?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3dpubmed
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Sam should have absolutely been shut down after the big east tournament. Can’t believe the staff chose to play him in 3 exhibition games.
My gosh, how any Marquette fan could call the nit an exhibition with the great memories of the title run over Dr. J and Pistol Pete and the attention after hoop dreams beats me.
After spending a few years of not being able to make the NCAA or the NIT, being able to follow-up with an NCAA bid and the 2 wins in the NIT shows people we are going in the right direction again.
Exhibition? An opening round loss to Harvard would have been a crushing blow and made Marquette the only better not seed to lose their opening game. Mu goes out and loses that game and the programs reputation is really hurting when it comes to next selection Sunday because it looks like we were nowhere near the next four out.
You may as well say they should have left Sam out for the whole season since we weren't going to make the NCAA anyway . My math on that projects a 12-19 season without Hauser ending with a loss in the 8-9 game of the big east to St. John's.
How would our next couple of recruiting classes have looked after a 12-19 season?
An nit win means you stay alive and play another team that just win - in short the exact opposite of an exhibition.
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My gosh, how any Marquette fan could call the nit an exhibition with the great memories of the title run over Dr. J and Pistol Pete and the attention after hoop dreams beats me.
After spending a few years of not being able to make the NCAA or the NIT, being able to follow-up with an NCAA bid and the 2 wins in the NIT shows people we are going in the right direction again.
Exhibition? An opening round loss to Harvard would have been a crushing blow and made Marquette the only better not seed to lose their opening game. Mu goes out and loses that game and the programs reputation is really hurting when it comes to next selection Sunday because it looks like we were nowhere near the next four out.
You may as well say they should have left Sam out for the whole season since we weren't going to make the NCAA anyway . My math on that projects a 12-19 season without Hauser ending with a loss in the 8-9 game of the big east to St. John's.
How would our next couple of recruiting classes have looked after a 12-19 season?
An nit win means you stay alive and play another team that just win - in short the exact opposite of an exhibition.
Good post. Agree on all counts.
Can you run the numbers on what our record would have been this season without Rowsey? Would be helpful to know how much we have to "make up" next year, with him being the only departure...
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Good post. Agree on all counts.
Can you run the numbers on what our record would have been this season without Rowsey? Would be helpful to know how much we have to "make up" next year, with him being the only departure...
And then run the numbers without Rowsey but with Morrow, Joey, Bailey, Ike, a healthy Elliott and the grad transfer PG we're gonna sign. Thanks!
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And then run the numbers without Rowsey but with Morrow, Joey, Bailey, Ike, a healthy Elliott and the grad transfer PG we're gonna sign. Thanks!
He does a projection every year prior to tip off that will include all of that.
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Ok Chicos, you are starting to get on my nerves.
I asked for a reference or context, but you didn't provide. What players am I publicly maligning and what does your phrase even mean?
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2011/01/marquette-choking-dogs-pee-themselves.html
I'm talking about that post you wrote for Cracked Sidewalks, surely you remember?
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Another yet to be published study on return to play after FAI: http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2018/03/26/bjsports-2017-098696
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Any word on when Sam will being having surgery? He looked fine at the Rec yesterday throwing down alley-oops from Markus....
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Any word on when Sam will being having surgery? He looked fine at the Rec yesterday throwing down alley-oops from Markus....
Those weren't alley-oops, bro. Those were offensive goal tends.
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Any word on when Sam will being having surgery? He looked fine at the Rec yesterday throwing down alley-oops from Markus....
So dumb and dangerous for Sam to be having fun with a teammate on his own time when he should be having surgery. Outrage, outrage I tell you!!! Fire Wojo!!!
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The PT piece was very relevant, and let's face it, the theme of it (Sam's performance impacted) was on our minds as it was clear from just watching, especially after DePaul. Who here can't admit this wasn't on our minds?
IMO, it should have stopped there and not delved into the medical speculation as fact...although, asking open ended questions on a blog piece is fine like "will it impact his recovery?". I just think it crossed that line which caused Wojo to defend the program in a more public way. Clearly, the Hausers where in line and informed along the way, and I know MU's medical staff is top notch.
I appreciate the work from the PT crew, including being provacative...I just think this piece went more definitive than it should have on the conclusion.
Let's move on.
I agree with the good Doctor. The topic is relevant. The opinion is valid. I don't blame anyone at MU for being peeved at the accusatory tone. It was over the line and the absolutist conclusion lacked a solid basis.
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It is I, the dumb and dangerous one. Appreciate the feedback. I think the problem is the headline, not the actual article.
But the reaction to a post that has barely 1000 reads is pretty funny. I've been called out by the SID on Twitter, told by the Admin to change the headline, and talked about on the radio for 10 minutes. Again, for a column that got less clicks than a an average post. It makes no sense to me.
You all read my stuff, what agenda would you say I promote? (I am lazy in the offseason, so guilty as charged. But ya'll never click on anything but Ryan's transfer tracker anyways.)
Just catching up on this thread because the title and post count caused me to shy away (figured it would be a bunch of back of forth bi*tchin' banter - which it was)....but don't sweat this AG. Not worth it.
Wojo's response was pretty funny in the Homer interview, however.
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Here you are again, calling me wrong for having a different opinion than you. I think I am right, so you must be wrong. Not a great argument.
1,000 clicks on a blog isn't even likely to be from 1,000 unique people. You can think that roughly 1,000 people is significant, but in the grand scheme of what that represents of the fanbase or the university community, it's minimal.
The constant skianth dick measuring contest got old like 6 months ago.
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The constant skianth dick measuring contest got old like 6 months ago.
So you regurgitate a post from 5 days for this purpose?
Thankfully nobody has regurgitated your approximately 50 posts in Bubble Watch thread assuring us 9-9 Big East record and 1 BE Tourney win was a LOCK for NCAA tourney.
Moral? Re-hashing week/month/years old posts is kind of a dick (measuring) move.
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The constant skianth dick measuring contest got old like 6 months ago.
If you think I'm instigating any of this, you need to re-read the threads.
If you want to complain that I disagree with the scoop consensus more often than youd like, that's fine, but it's definitely not dick measuring. It's just having and explaining an opinion.
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http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2011/01/marquette-choking-dogs-pee-themselves.html
I'm talking about that post you wrote for Cracked Sidewalks, surely you remember?
Thank you for the reference. One would have to be a writer for that service to be able to write for it is my assumption. In reading the article, way overdone but I would not equate it with calling out the ethical integrity of MU's medical staff, coaches, or Hauser himself. Are you equating the two?
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Thank you for the reference. One would have to be a writer for that service to be able to write for it is my assumption. In reading the article, way overdone but I would not equate it with calling out the ethical integrity of MU's medical staff, coaches, or Hauser himself. Are you equating the two?
WD, we know you're Chicos. Drop the schtick.
You wrote a scumbag article yourself with an axe to grind re: the staff and are now trying to morally pontificate from a high horse.
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WD, we know you're Chicos. Drop the schtick.
You wrote a scumbag article yourself with an axe to grind re: the staff and are now trying to morally pontificate from a high horse.
Yea WD/Chico’s. Just own it. I do every time posters here determine its me. I never deny. Now, I don’t volunteer it when rejoining either..but..never deny.
I understand your rationale for trying to remain anonymous as you want your posts read objectively without the pre-existing bias and “hate” some developed for you here..but..own your sh$t, because you do have some good insight and knowledge. Furthermore Buzz is gone so you can be free of that noose around your neck...and once again be an MU fan. Hopefully Wojo gets us winning at a level of Crean and Buzz, and I can let go of the frustrations I frequently feel with Wojo!
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Yea WD/Chico’s. Just own it. I do every time posters here determine its me. I never deny. Now, I don’t volunteer it when rejoining either..but..never deny.
I understand your rationale for trying to remain anonymous as you want your posts read objectively without the pre-existing bias and “hate” some developed for you here..but..own your sh$t, because you do have some good insight and knowledge. Furthermore Buzz is gone so you can be free of that noose around your neck...and once again be an MU fan. Hopefully Wojo gets us winning at a level of Crean and Buzz, and I can let go of the frustrations I frequently feel with Wojo!
Wow, that's like Bill Clinton giving Donald Trump advice.
8-) ;) :o ;D
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Yea WD/Chico’s. Just own it. I do every time posters here determine its me. I never deny. Now, I don’t volunteer it when rejoining either..but..never deny.
I understand your rationale for trying to remain anonymous as you want your posts read objectively without the pre-existing bias and “hate” some developed for you here..but..own your sh$t, because you do have some good insight and knowledge. Furthermore Buzz is gone so you can be free of that noose around your neck...and once again be an MU fan. Hopefully Wojo gets us winning at a level of Crean and Buzz, and I can let go of the frustrations I frequently feel with Wojo!
Eat more d's
3-point shooting contest in Minneapolis is still open. $100. Target Center.
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Eat more d's
3-point shooting contest in Minneapolis is still open. $100. Target Center.
1-on-1 for $300.
3-point shooting contest $100.
No FT contest? Or do they not matta?
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https://twitter.com/stephhouz/status/979805712061816832?s=21
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https://twitter.com/stephhouz/status/979805712061816832?s=21
Uh-oh ... Momma Hauser sure sounds pissed here. I can't believe she actually used the words "dumb and dangerous"! Wow!!!!!!
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Uh-oh ... Momma Hauser sure sounds pissed here. I can't believe she actually used the words "dumb and dangerous"! Wow!!!!!!
Clearly lacks PT's intimate knowledge of Sam's injury and prognosis.