MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: real chili 83 on March 08, 2018, 05:59:02 PM
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Wild Hairy Wet Cats on the menu tonight.
I’m feeling it tonight. WE GOT THIS!!!!
Markus shows up for the SOTG
GO WARRIORS!!!!!
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=chat
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Well better wear your helmet. Bricks are being thrown.
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Unfriendly rims at the garden.
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MU taking dumb shots, except for Sam, who's shots won't fall :(
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If MU was hitting anything, they could have a big lead already!
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(http://www.experthow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/laying-bricks.jpg)
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Well at least they aren't hitting shots either
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This is ugly right now on both sides
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2 for 12 so less than 20%. Not good, Rowsey taking 30 footers not helping at all.
Thank god, Nova cold or we could be down big time.
Why does Cain travel all the time?
Calm down Andrew.....ll
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Jamal nearly travels every single time he has the ball, love his game but slow it down kid
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We got this. Nova looking cold. Only a must-win game for one team. We're getting the looks we want and they will fall eventually. Let's go MU!
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What was the foul? Two guys going straight up for the rebound
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It’s shocking Cain doesn’t get called for more travels.
Nova being ice cold is how we beat them last year. Granted we need to hit shots.
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Bridges pushes Cain out of the way with no call again.
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Listening to radio. Do Rowsey, Howard or hauser look banged up at all?
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At least they caught the 2nd travel on that drive
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1000!
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Dumb foul at that point in the shot clock
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Not saying it wasn't a foul on Rowsey but how is it the ref with the worst possible view is the only one who made the call?
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Dumb foul at that point in the shot clock
Didn't seem like a foul live, will have to see the replay. Their G ran into a cluster and got bailed out
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Really need Sam or Howard to help drew on the offensive side
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Why Andrew? Why? No need for that dumb 2nd foul.
Solid start though. Hauser's 3 shots all were 80% down and all fell out.
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Knew it was too good to be true for awhile, but now foul trouble for Rowsey. Ugh......
Nova going inside last five/six possessions and working.
Just keep it close
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Dumb foul at that point in the shot clock
To make it worse you could hear people calling out the shot clock and Rowsey decided to try and go for the steal with 3 seconds left when their guy had no shot. This guy is so frustrating sometimes
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Why is he putting Rowsey back in? Silly. Tie game. Ride as long as you can without him..at scorers table
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Let's keep it close and clinch it late, lull them to sleep. Don't make this an insanely-paced game so early.
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When was the last time both Rowsey and Howard were "on"?
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That ain't a foul.
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When was the last time both Rowsey and Howard were "on"?
Creighton last saturday
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MU hitting shots and falling further behind
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Make it rain
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Rowsey only has 1 foul. The last call was on Howard. Chill, guys.
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If we can stop them driving to basket, may have a chance. Like 8 of last 10 possessions, either score or foul.
Guess Rowsey only with one foul, good.
Keep it close till half.
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That foul was called on Howard not Rowsey
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Hauser needs to get going... missing shots, gives up rebound on missed free throw, fouls a shooter on made 3 pointer....we need him to pick it up
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Boy the freshman have not been very good lately
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Went inside, turnover. Shot 3, hit
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Plant Theo's ass on the bench and don't let it leave there the rest of the tournament...he has been god awful!
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So a forearm shiver to send a guy out of bounds is "boxing out nicely"
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No foul when John gets shoved for the rebound but they call him for that? Weak sauce stripes
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Rowsey getting mutilated by Brunson, need to do something about it... Can't keep giving easy layups
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How many drives to the basket and layups does Wojo need to see before he shuts it off via a 2-3 zone? It's insane.
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We might be out-talented at every position
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It seems like Hauser has made more poor plays in the last 24 hours than the previous 24 months
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We might be out-talented at every position
No, we have Harry
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Sam gets mugged, no foul. Theo barely lays a finger on Paschall, two free throws. So effing frustrating.
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We...cannot...play....man to man.
And the refs are screwing us with ticky tack fouls, while letting Villanova manhandle us.
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How many drives to the basket and layups does Wojo need to see before he shuts it off via a 2-3 zone? It's insane.
The best offensive team in the country is shooting 44%.....
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It seems like Hauser has made more poor plays in the last 24 hours than the previous 24 months
And I don't think he's sat down yet. He needs to grab some bench and mentally adjust
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Our athlticism is an issue at every possition versus nova
Thats why hauser n the rest struggle
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I just really do not understand what Wojo is trying to do defensively..Why oh why oh why when it keeps happening over and over and over again does he just stick with it?? TRY A FREAKING ZONE.
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Rowsey getting mutilated by Brunson, need to do something about it... Can't keep giving easy layups
Rowsey is a piss poor defender.
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Good first half, we're still in it and chance they come out flat with a decent lead
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We might be out-talented at every position
That's why you don't play M2M as a base defense...how in the F Wojo can't see how we get destroyed game after game after game with teams getting to the basket/FT line is beyond concerning.
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Clear out the help defense while playing small, then have a guard with size take a midget to the basket. Good coaching.
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So a forearm shiver to send a guy out of bounds is "boxing out nicely"
This.
As an example of Nova being much more physical, and getting away with it.
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Absolutely positively need Hauser to get going
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Refs are fine. Zone likely won’t help.
Down 7 versus the #3 team in the country at half with Sam held scoreless? Could be a lot worse.
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Refs are fine. Zone likely won’t help.
Down 7 versus the #3 team in the country at half with Sam held scoreless? Could be a lot worse.
+1
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Gotta be a little more physical on the boards with these guys. It looks like the refs are gonna let them play. We just need to adapt. Other than that, pretty good first half. We're chasing them a little bit at times on D, but that's just what happens when you play this good of a team.
Matt has had a mismatch or two that he didn't seem to be aware of and/or didn't take advantage of. If he could post up when he's got a guard on him, that could help us get an easy bucket or two.
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Come on Wojo, break the whiteboard markers chairs, break whatever you need in the next few minutes and let's go!!!!! I want you to have the worst cracking voice we have heard all season after the game!!!!
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Jay Wright loves Howard and Rowsey
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Enough with the refs, every game is their fault, when not really.
Its the layup after layup after layup, Sam, Rowsey, Sam, ten Markus all in a row beaten bad.
Sam no points, has to do what he did last game.
Nova had one point lead with two minutes to go, now seven. Just a shame.
Still in good shape, no stupid turnovers, hit some threes and get Sam involved.
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The best offensive team in the country is shooting 44%.....
If you can't see we are getting killed on drives and finishes at the rack, don't know what to tell you.
And as for your Synergy data - screenshot and upload image here for the whole team's D-Ranking by player. Curious to see what that looks like.
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Refs are fine. Zone likely won’t help.
Down 7 versus the #3 team in the country at half with Sam held scoreless? Could be a lot worse.
Maybe, but it SHOULD be a lot better...if MU hits any shots early, they could have an 8-10 point lead at half. Not smart Coaching by Wojo having your worst defender(Rowsey) Guarding Brunson either. Oh well, it's his sword to fall on.
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Again...the best offensive team in the country is shooting 46% against the M2M. Defense isn't stellar but its passable.
Honestly, thought the half went pretty well. If Hauser is his usual self we are tied right now.
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Jay Wright loves Howard and Rowsey
Does anyone anywhere legitimately dislike Jay Wright?
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If you can't see we are getting killed on drives and finishes at the rack, don't know what to tell you.
And as for your Synergy data - screenshot and upload image here for the whole team's D-Ranking by player. Curious to see what that looks like.
I do see that. I also realize that Villanova is the best offensive team in the nation playing one of the worst defensive teams in the nation.
I'll share in the appropriate thread
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3 MU players under the basket and the one Nova player gets the rebound. We'll be lucky to be 9-9 next season.
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Clear out the help defense while playing small, then have a guard with size take a midget to the basket. Good coaching.
You are aware that can't take place against a zone defense, correct?
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Maybe, but it SHOULD be a lot better...if MU hits any shots early, they could have an 8-10 point lead at half. Not smart Coaching by Wojo having your worst defender(Rowsey) Guarding Brunson either. Oh well, it's his sword to fall on.
If Marquette hits all their shots in the second half, they will win the game.
People’s obsession with Wojo whenever anything negative happens is getting weird.
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3 MU players under the basket and the one Nova player gets the rebound. We'll be lucky to be 9-9 next season.
Oh just stop.
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Go away Ners
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I really hate to say this, but given how there’s no rational explanation for these calls on Theo, I can only surmise that if he cut his hair and put on a bowtie he might get fewer calls against him.
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Thought we played pretty well in the first half. Nova realizing they should put it on the floor and not jack jump shots hurt our D. Freshman need ton contribute. But most of all Sam needs to wake up
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Enough with the refs, every game is their fault, when not really.
Its the layup after layup after layup, Sam, Rowsey, Sam, ten Markus all in a row beaten bad.
Sam no points, has to do what he did last game.
Nova had one point lead with two minutes to go, now seven. Just a shame.
Still in good shape, no stupid turnovers, hit some threes and get Sam involved.
Could it be they know their going get called for the foul if they make any contact while Nova can make contact and not get called.
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If you can't see we are getting killed on drives and finishes at the rack, don't know what to tell you.
And as for your Synergy data - screenshot and upload image here for the whole team's D-Ranking by player. Curious to see what that looks like.
Lol. Can't accept the reality of the stats. Gonna shift goalposts and start attacking someone else on the team.
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I really hate to say this, but given how there’s no rational explanation for these calls on Theo, I can only surmise that if he cut his hair and put on a bowtie he might get fewer calls against him.
No, he just commits them. He'll learn one day about aggressiveness.
At least only one starter has two fouls and thats Heldt, Theo has two in like two minutes. Brunson has two and Gillespie two for Nova.
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I really hate to say this, but given how there’s no rational explanation for these calls on Theo, I can only surmise that if he cut his hair and put on a bowtie he might get fewer calls against him.
Those calls on Theo were fouls.
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Those calls on Theo were fouls.
One looked all ball to me. But I don't have DVR so I accept that it could have been something I missed in real time
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Raft getting shoes from MU, hahahaha.
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Could it be they know their going get called for the foul if they make any contact while Nova can make contact and not get called.
Have you watched any MU games this year, MU is worst fouling team in BE and in bottom quarter in all NCAA. In this game MU only has 8 and Nova has five fouls.
Just look up points in the paint difference and stop worrying about refs. And another MU foul on a shot....
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Sidebar, Harry looks very enthusiastic on the bench
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Lol. Can't accept the reality of the stats. Gonna shift goalposts and start attacking someone else on the team.
Yeah...go look at the stats. Are you aware Markus Howard and Harry Froling are better defenders than Sacar, and place 3rd and 4th on the team defensively, per Synergy?
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Cain with a nice steal.
Not great offense a couple possession in a row
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Too many easy hoops. Haven’t seen the points in the paint but it must be pretty one-sided.
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Yeah...go look at the stats. Are you aware Markus Howard and Harry Froling are better defenders than Sacar, and place 3rd and 4th on the team defensively, per Synergy?
Ahhhh... Discrediting the source now. The playbook is obvious.
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Still don't get Rowsey on Brunson...your worst defender on the BE and possibly National player of the year?? I mean..WTF??
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this is brutal...26 pts in paint. Switch to zone and make Nova shoot from more than 4 feet.
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this is brutal...26 pts in paint. Switch to zone and make Nova shoot from more than 4 feet.
No! can't do that! sultan says it won't work, therefore, it won't...No point in even TRYING it. ?-(
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Where is that zone??
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this is brutal...26 pts in paint. Switch to zone and make Nova shoot from more than 4 feet.
That’s all? What’s MU in paint?
Nova just penetrating each time, Jay Wright knows how to coach.
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I know we aren't supposed to comment on the reffing but are we to believe an MU defender would not have been called for a foul if they tapped a Villanova shooter on the hand and feet simultaneously like divenchenzo just did to Howard
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Ahhhh... Discrediting the source now. The playbook is obvious.
Simple Question: You think Howard and Froling are better defenders than Sacar, Heldt, Theo, Cain?
This aside, the layup line continues.
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Still don't get Rowsey on Brunson...your worst defender on the BE and possibly National player of the year?? I mean..WTF??
This I do agree with. The problem though is Nova's size. If Rowsey doesn't guard Brunson he has to guard someone at least 8 inches taller than him.
Nova has figured out the M2M. Gotta make some sort of adjustment.
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Simple Question: You think Howard and Froling are better defenders than Sacar, Heldt, Theo, Cain?
This aside, the layup line continues.
Then Theo? Absolutely.
The others I explained in the proper thread. PPP allowed is not the end all be all stat. But it is one of the more important ones.
Are you questioning ppp allowed as a stat? Or the source collecting the data?
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Dagger
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No! can't do that! sultan says it won't work, therefore, it won't...No point in even TRYING it. ?-(
I think it’s cute how much you are obsessed with me.
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Atta boy Wojo! Keep staying with the man to man!! It's working wonderfully!
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I think they haven't missed in 45 minutes
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I think it’s cute how much you are obsessed with me.
Not even close to obsessed...but you are OBSESSED with Wojo, and obsessed with anyone that says even slightly negative about him. You like the game your boy is coaching tonight??
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It's either setting up as one of the best turnarounds in MU history or its over
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Sooooo tourney or no?
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Nova is really good. Likely to have a higher seed in the big dance than the conference tourney. My went cold. Can't do that
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Keep getting our shots but they're just not going down... What you get with a team that heavily relies on jump shots
Still in it though. We can make this up
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A 7 point lead felt do-able, 15 is a little tougher. Something needs to change on D to get back in this
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Not even close to obsessed...but you are OBSESSED with Wojo, and obsessed with anyone that says even slightly negative about him. You like the game your boy is coaching tonight??
I think he is doing fine considering the youth and talent on the team. The future is bright. Can’t do much when only two people show up on the offensive end.
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I think they haven't missed in 45 minutes
Lets zone n just get drilled
Great call guru
Ur a moron
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That was pathetic
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Game,set, match No tourney for this year
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Yeah, MU missing everything, turnovers, 12-0 run hurt. Nova just a better all round team.
Was hoping for a closer game, let’s hope doesn’t get to huge blowout.
Who knows maybe they shoot 90% on threes and get back in.
Whoa, Paschal over Heldt.......whoa.....he’s a big boy.
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Zoning now. 3 on the first zone possession. Then a miss. Going to take a ridiculous hot streak
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Then Theo? Absolutely.
The others I explained in the proper thread. PPP allowed is not the end all be all stat. But it is one of the more important ones.
Are you questioning ppp allowed as a stat? Or the source collecting the data?
I'm simply saying that if your source says Froling and Howard are better defenders than Sacar, Heldt, Cain - the source has some serious flaws.
It is foolish to suggest Markus has a good rating because he's "assigned" to the other team's weakest player. He's assigned to the other team's shooting guard, typically.
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I think he is doing fine considering the youth and talent on the team. The future is bright. Can’t do much when only two people show up on the offensive end.
Dude unnatural carnal knowledge off. MU didn’t used to **hope** to stick around with a top team in the country. We routinely knocked them off. Ever since Wojo we’ve become a punching bag with a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the BIG game. I understand we did it once but come on. Look at this.
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The putback dunk was against the zone too
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We have no defense. Nova guards driving past our bigs at will. Continuing to switch. Give Theo some minutes. Can’t do much worse.
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Allowing Paschal to do that was embarrassing
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How do you sit in a zone defense and not box out, allowing a Nova player to follow-up dunk it? Heldt didn't want it, plain and simple. That lack of effort and desire is what losing teams are made of.
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Dude unnatural carnal knowledge off. MU didn’t used to **hope** to stick around with a top team in the country. We routinely knocked them off. Ever since Wojo we’ve become a punching bag with a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the BIG game. I understand we did it once but come on. Look at this.
I understand your frustration. But I never expected much this year. Next year? Yes.
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Lets zone n just get drilled
Great call guru
Ur a moron
It was ONE freaking possession idiot...how's the man been working??
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Dude unnatural carnal knowledge off. MU didn’t used to **hope** to stick around with a top team in the country. We routinely knocked them off. Ever since Wojo we’ve become a punching bag with a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the BIG game. I understand we did it once but come on. Look at this.
Come on MU, let's come back and win this so these types can stay off scoop for another couple weeks!
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Nobody else is involved,easy adjustment by JW at half-time.we need rebounds and someone to mix
it up down low
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Zoning now. 3 on the first zone possession. Then a miss. Going to take a ridiculous hot streak
Actually it was a missed three and an offensive putback on the first zone possession. A three on the second zone possession. Missed three on the third.
I applaud Wojo for making the move, Nova had thoroughly figured out the M2M and an adjustment was needed. But the zone is not magic. Its not going to make the best offensive team in the country suddenly manageable. Requires the Cats to miss some shots and good bounces on the defensive boards.
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I don't think we can draw too many overarching conclusions about Wojo based on a game against possibly the best team in the country (I feel like they'll beat UVa in a head-to-head more often than not). Having said that, I wish we attacked the bucket more as a team. I feel like we rarely knock players out because of foul trouble.
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Why is he pressing? Absurd.
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Ok so the press was fun
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We gotten a stop in zone yet?
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Once again, another team that shoots 98 percent from the floor against Marquette.
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Zone getting shredded. Predictably.
Going to be interesting to see how the goalposts gets shifted...
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Can guru be banned now? Plz?
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Why is he pressing? Absurd.
I don't hate it. We're down big against a good team. Need to do something to swing the game and draw turnovers.
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Come on MU, let's come back and win this so these types can stay off scoop for another couple weeks!
I’ve been on scoop all season. Even titled a thread being optimistic about getting the 5th seed in the BEAST tourney.
The next day we lost to DePaul.
Why do I have to remain optimistic? This team is what it is and Wojo is who he is.
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Anyone got what Nova shooting in second half? 80%?..
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ok
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I honestly like how we've played on both ends the last 3 minutes and Nova has extended their lead by like 8
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Shooting out of their ass
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That escalated quickly
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Dude unnatural carnal knowledge off. MU didn’t used to **hope** to stick around with a top team in the country. We routinely knocked them off. Ever since Wojo we’ve become a punching bag with a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the BIG game. I understand we did it once but come on. Look at this.
Um.
When did MU "routinely" knock off top 5 teams?
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Did Villanova just change into Kansas uniforms? I don't remember this many shots in a row since 2003
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5 threes made in Villanova’s last 5 possessions
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That zone tho
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Can guru be banned now? Plz?
Whatever...don't you miss Luke?? I sure do! At least gave MU an interior presence.
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Have their walk-ons started making 3's yet?? What a joke
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HAHA NOVA! Mu was playing well. How do you stop 6 straight 3's? It's ridiculous. Geesus.
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That zone tho
Yeah it was beautiful. Key to a big turnaround. Just not in the way it’s proponents thought.
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Zone getting shredded. Predictably.
Going to be interesting to see how the goalposts gets shifted...
LOL. Man getting shredded.
Was dumb to extend pressure full court in the zone. You don't make your zone travel and defend full court.
That aside, the zone wasn't anymore effective than our piss poor man defense. Nova is good. But, of course we suck defensively under Wojo every year and it is getting worse with "his guys."
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Turns out the best team in the nation can make threes when they are left wide open...who knew
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Villanova may be the best team in the country. This game shows it. Appreciate artistry.
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I actually like how we are playing............... and we are still getting boat raced
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Ouch
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Quite simply, Nova is impossible to beat when they are shooting like this. They're the best team in the country and they are playing near their ceiling. We could play our best game of the season but if Nova is playing like this we would still lose by double digits.
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Have to respect what Nova’s done here. Wright has built a monster.
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I actually like how we are playing............... and we are still getting boat raced
Right. I totally agree. We've actually done a lot of things well
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Um.
When did MU "routinely" knock off top 5 teams?
Go pull Wojo’s win pct against top 15 teams and Buzz’s and compare the two. I’ll delete my account if Wojo’s is higher.
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Quite simply, Nova is impossible to beat when they are shooting like this. They're the best team in the country and they are playing near their ceiling. We could play our best game of the season but if Nova is playing like this we would still lose by double digits.
True.
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LOL. Man getting shredded.
Was dumb to extend pressure full court in the zone. You don't make your zone travel and defend full court.
1. First shift? Less than five minutes.
2. The ran the same zone pressure at Creighton and it worked.
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Too bad we don't play in a conference where we could play a couple mediocre teams before running into a title contender in the conference tournament. Nova is so good. Hope they win it all again (If it can't be us ;)).
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Right. I totally agree. We've actually done a lot of things well
We’re playing much better tonight than we did last night.
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Nova’s ceiling is the roof
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When Spellman is hitting three's...not much you can do. Unreal.
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After Nova had 13 layups and 13 FT in their first 47 pts, they now have caught fire outside.
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Nova shooting 78% this half. 67% from 3.
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We’re playing much better tonight than we did last night.
Def
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LOL. Man getting shredded.
Was dumb to extend pressure full court in the zone. You don't make your zone travel and defend full court.
That aside, the zone wasn't anymore effective than our piss poor man defense. Nova is good. But, of course we suck defensively under Wojo every year and it is getting worse with "his guys."
Man, take a Xanax, it’s just a game. Seriously, this team is headed as. #1 seed in the NIT, so enjoy that at least. Life’s too short and you are going nuclear on all this.
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Marquette should have three players who stay on the offensive end of the floor -- like the old Iowa girls high school basketball. It would be genius.
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So are Joey and Ed going to make up this difference next year?
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I understand your frustration. But I never expected much this year. Next year? Yes.
Yuyp. The same mantra for us every year. We will be really, really, really good next year. We might make it to 6th place in BEast.
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So...Haanif gonna make the trip up with his new team next week? Or maybe Rowsey against his old school? I'm thinkin' Harvard doesn't make it out of the Ivy tournament and we get them.
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I like Heldt, but he is out of his element, and now the praising of Nova begins by the announcers!
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We see you Sacar
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So much for it being tough to beat a team 3 times
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Sam had a really poor tourney
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nice dunk by sacar but this team is just outclassed in every department.
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Anyone
Could it be our crap defenders has something to do with that. Wojo=national defensive player of year.
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How Is anyone mad? Nova is just unconscious right now, who cares. It's beautiful basketball, just wish it didn't happen against us.
I actually thought we played well. Proud of this team
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Yuyp. The same mantra for us every year. We will be really, really, really good next year. We might make it to 6th place in BEast.
+1000, and there will be excuses next year too if things go bad.."The 6th year is when you truly judge" is what people will say.
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Make it stop were already dead
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Nova is 15 for 27 from three, ridiculous.
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Well at least they aren't hitting shots either
I'm not quoting myself because I'm an arrogant prick, I'm just recollecting the beginning of this game fondly
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I actually like how we are playing............... and we are still getting boat raced
Also agree on this. I don't think anyone could beat Villanova tonight or even come that close. Our boys have given a great effort in my opinion.
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I don’t get some people here. I know we are living in an era where people just complain about everything. But if you hate this team and Wojo so much then why are you even a fan? Why do you waste your time on this board. Is there really nothing else in life to occupy yourself then to constantly complain online
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At least ND getting rocked by Duke
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Too bad we don't play in a conference where we could play a couple mediocre teams before r
If we competed for conference champioship, instead of bottom tier every year, we would get higher seeding and then play some lesser teams.
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Also agree on this. I don't think anyone could beat Villanova tonight or even come that close.
Last time I saw them blitz a team like this it was against OU at the Final Four.
Let's hope they can make the numbers look respectable in garbage time.
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Yuyp. The same mantra for us every year.
No one said that last year.
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At least ND getting rocked by Duke
But No Dick will get in. Thanks to Buzz.
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Last time I saw them blitz a team like this it was against OU at the Final Four.
Let's hope they can make the numbers look respectable in garbage time.
For NIT seeding purposes? Lol.
I'll still be on pins and needles when they get to "M" on Sunday, but....
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At least ND getting rocked by Duke
Finding joy in the little things. I like it.
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Can’t even be mad. MU played decently. Nova is just really f*cking good and experienced as hell. Kudos to them. Now we gotta root for the bubble to go our way.
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I don’t get some people here. I know we are living in an era where people just complain about everything. But if you hate this team and Wojo so much then why are you even a fan? Why do you waste your time on this board. Is there really nothing else in life to occupy yourself then to constantly complain online
They just care more.
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The Arby's commercial was appropriate.
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I don’t get some people here. I know we are living in an era where people just complain about everything. But if you hate this team and Wojo so much then why are you even a fan? Why do you waste your time on this board. Is there really nothing else in life to occupy yourself then to constantly complain online
Yeah, I don’t usually go after anyone, but Ners was going out of control. It’s only a game and who expected a win against them, not I. Just a terrible matchup probably against a #1 seed.
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Did he just say Nova is shooting 77 percent in this half? God.
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Yikes.
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No one said that last year.
They BARELY got in last year, and then when they did...yeah, we all remember what happened. ONE...count 'em ONE tournament appearance in 4 years..So Sultan, if things go bad, next year, what's your excuse gonna be?? "too many newcomers to try to implement and the chemistry was off, wait until NEXT year"??
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Well look at the bright side: At least we didn't run up a big lead and then blow it like we did all the time when Buzz was here.
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They BARELY got in last year, and then when they did...yeah, we all remember what happened. ONE...count 'em ONE tournament appearance in 4 years..So Sultan, if things go bad, next year, what's your excuse gonna be?? "too many newcomers to try to implement and the chemistry was off, wait until NEXT year"??
They were in quite comfortably last season.
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The Arby's commercial was appropriate.
I don't get the whole Arby's thing
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Sam and Greg have the same amount of points tonight
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Running clock
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Can’t even be mad. MU played decently. Nova is just really f*cking good and experienced as hell. Kudos to them. Now we gotta root for the bubble to go our way.
Agreed. It's not like we're playing like we did against Depaul.
Nova is just light years ahead of us. If we play them 20 more times, we lose 20 more times.
My choice to win it all has been Nova all year. Nothing tonite changes my mind (obviously).
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Go pull Wojo’s win pct against top 15 teams and Buzz’s and compare the two. I’ll delete my account if Wojo’s is higher.
Not what you said.
You said MU used to "routinely" knock off top 5 teams.
Nice job shifting the goalposts
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They BARELY got in last year, and then when they did...yeah, we all remember what happened. ONE...count 'em ONE tournament appearance in 4 years..So Sultan, if things go bad, next year, what's your excuse gonna be?? "too many newcomers to try to implement and the chemistry was off, wait until NEXT year"??
They lost 5 key guys since then and might be a better team this year
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Go pull Wojo’s win pct against top 15 teams and Buzz’s and compare the two. I’ll delete my account if Wojo’s is higher.
I got
13-29 for Buzz (30.9%)
4-17 for Wojo (19%)
Honestly expected the difference to be greater considering the teams the two coaches had. Also interesting is that Wojo is 3-6 in the last two years. Maybe a sign that things are trending upward.
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But No Dick will get in. Thanks to Buzz.
Sounds like you're a no dick fan. Congrats
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Also agree on this. I don't think anyone could beat Villanova tonight or even come that close. Our boys have given a great effort in my opinion.
Someone obviously switched out their rim for the bigger one at halftime. They're shooting like the hoop is 3 feet wide.
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Sam and Greg have the same amount of points tonight
Sam was really bad this tourney
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They were in quite comfortably last season.
Depends on your perspective, a 10 seed to me, is not THAT comfortable, and if you remember, after beating Nova, they promptly gagged away a game against Providence at home, that set them back.
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No one said that last year.
Agreed. I think the general concensus was that we were either going to stay the same or drop down depending on the freshman and Harry. Freshman did well but Harry lacked. Pretty much what everyone expected...unless you are unrealistic and think we should beat the best team in the nation
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CAM!
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Raise your hand if you think Froling going to be around next year.
MU getting clobbered by bigger, stronger team on boards all game, down 26 and he hasn’t played a minute. Heck Marotta got time.
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They BARELY got in last year, and then when they did...yeah, we all remember what happened. ONE...count 'em ONE tournament appearance in 4 years..So Sultan, if things go bad, next year, what's your excuse gonna be?? "too many newcomers to try to implement and the chemistry was off, wait until NEXT year"??
My expectations have already been stated in my signature.
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Cam in. No Harry
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Not what you said.
You said MU used to "routinely" knock off top 5 teams.
Nice job shifting the goalposts
I did? Go quote my post again. YOU put the number “5” in. I said top teams in the country. Nice job reading English spaz.
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Um.
When did MU "routinely" knock off top 5 teams?
Also looked this up. Buzz as far as I can tell had 0 wins against top 5 teams. Wojo has 2.
Now please don't take that as I'm saying Wojo is better than Buzz, he's not. I just found it interesting.
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How Is anyone mad? Nova is just unconscious right now, who cares. It's beautiful basketball, just wish it didn't happen against us.
I actually thought we played well. Proud of this team
I agree totally with Pilot. They're preparing to compete for a national championship. Jay had them ready to play. We're working very hard to be a borderline NCAA team. And if not, try to make it to the Garden in a couple weeks. All good.
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Raise your hand if you think Froling going to be around next year.
MU getting clobbered by bigger, stronger team on boards all game, down 26 and he hasn’t played a minute. Heck Marotta got time.
Harry being a very good teammate on the bench with Andrew right now. Don't know if he'll be back but I can honestly say that I think harry is a better human being than you
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Agreed. I think the general concensus was that we were either going to stay the same or drop down depending on the freshman and Harry. Freshman did well but Harry lacked. Pretty much what everyone expected...unless you are unrealistic and think we should beat the best team in the nation
No, I didn't expect them to beat the best team in the nation, but you know what?? In the grand scheme of things, this game SHOULD have been meaningless..beat PC at home, or beat a terrible DePaul team two weeks ago, and they are safely in the NCAA's..Oh yeah, i forgot, they are YOUNG and that's what young teams do...lose games to terrible teams. My bad.
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Feel bad for AR. That's tough. I want him to get a shot in the tourney that much more now
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No, I didn't expect them to beat the best team in the nation, but you know what?? In the grand scheme of things, this game SHOULD have been meaningless..beat PC at home, or beat a terrible DePaul team two weeks ago, and they are safely in the NCAA's..Oh yeah, i forgot, they are YOUNG and that's what young teams do...lose games to terrible teams. My bad.
There are no terrible teams in the big East this year
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I got
13-29 for Buzz (30.9%)
4-17 for Wojo (19%)
Honestly expected the difference to be greater considering the teams the two coaches had. Also interesting is that Wojo is 3-6 in the last two years. Maybe a sign that things are trending upward.
Outside of Nova last year, which other top 15 wins did we have in the last 2 years? Was Seton Hall a top 15 this year when we won at home?
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Creighton last year?
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No, I didn't expect them to beat the best team in the nation, but you know what?? In the grand scheme of things, this game SHOULD have been meaningless..beat PC at home, or beat a terrible DePaul team two weeks ago, and they are safely in the NCAA's..Oh yeah, i forgot, they are YOUNG and that's what young teams do...lose games to terrible teams. My bad.
Brother guru, we can play this game both ways. What if they lose at Hall, or at Creighton, or at Providence? We're nowhere near the tourney. KenPom picked up us 49th preseason, we're gonna finish right around there. The Big East coaches picked us to finish 7th and we did. We are who we are this year.
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Creighton last year?
That doesn't count for the wojo haters because they were missing a player. Nova last year doesn't count for the wojo haters either because of some stupid reason that they'll come up with
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Harry being a very good teammate on the bench with Andrew right now. Don't know if he'll be back but I can honestly say that I think harry is a better human being than you
Im sorry, but why are you being a d-bag? I just mentioned if Harry s going to be around next year. Never said anything bad about the kid, just that he didn't play. Whats wrong with some of you guys? Really.
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Outside of Nova last year, which other top 15 wins did we have in the last 2 years? Was Seton Hall a top 15 this year when we won at home?
Agreed I am having a real tough time recalling the 4...
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No, I didn't expect them to beat the best team in the nation, but you know what?? In the grand scheme of things, this game SHOULD have been meaningless..beat PC at home, or beat a terrible DePaul team two weeks ago, and they are safely in the NCAA's..Oh yeah, i forgot, they are YOUNG and that's what young teams do...lose games to terrible teams. My bad.
You just criticized how MU made it into the tourney last year because it wasn't "comfortable."
If we add a Depaul W this year, you realize that's about the same "comfort" level, right?
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Outside of Nova last year, which other top 15 wins did we have in the last 2 years? Was Seton Hall a top 15 this year when we won at home?
1/5/16 @ #8 Providence
1/21/17 @ #7 Creighton
1/24/17 vs #1 Villanova
1/8/18 vs #13 Seton Hall
And realizing I was wrong about Wojo having two top 5 wins. I though Providence was #5 when we beat them. Mea culpa
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I did? Go quote my post again. YOU put the number “5” in. I said top teams in the country. Nice job reading English spaz.
That's fair.
Define "top" team then for me.
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Im sorry, but why are you being a d-bag? I just mentioned if Harry s going to be around next year. Never said anything bad about the kid, just that he didn't play. Whats wrong with some of you guys? Really.
Didn't mean to take my anger out on you, I just think that harry has taken way to much sh*t from too many people on here. He's a kid that hasn't yet lived up to expectations. Being there for Andrew shows that he's a good person even if he isn't a great bball player yet. I apologize
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Agreed I am having a real tough time recalling the 4...
@ Creighton 2017
Nova 2017
@ Providence 2016
SHU 2018
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No, I didn't expect them to beat the best team in the nation, but you know what?? In the grand scheme of things, this game SHOULD have been meaningless..beat PC at home, or beat a terrible DePaul team two weeks ago, and they are safely in the NCAA's..Oh yeah, i forgot, they are YOUNG and that's what young teams do...lose games to terrible teams. My bad.
Yup those are tough losses. But that’s called sports. Upsets happen. St. John’s beat Duke and Nova. That’s what makes sports special. You win games you aren’t supposed to and lose games you are supposed to win. You can’t expect to win every single game buddy. But I guess you can and be pissed off the rest of your life. I hope you find a team to route for that never gets upset. We really don’t need any extra fans that are haters
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1/5/16 @ #8 Providence
1/21/17 @ #7 Creighton
1/24/17 vs #1 Villanova
1/8/18 vs #13 Seton Hall
And realizing I was wrong about Wojo having two top 5 wins. I though Providence was #5 when we beat them. Mea culpa
Wojo has sucked against good teams. There I said it.
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You just criticized how MU made it into the tourney last year because it wasn't "comfortable."
If we add a Depaul W this year, you realize that's about the same "comfort" level, right?
Sure, but sadly, under Wojo, that seems to be what we have to settle for, be a bubble team, or barely make it in. Sucks, but wait until NEXT year!
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That's fair.
Define "top" team then for me.
Top 15.. Where I set the goalposts from the start. And TAMU already proved me right. The only thing Wojo truly has going for him is the nova win at home where they couldn’t hit an open three if their lives were on the line.
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Didn't mean to take my anger out on you, I just think that harry has taken way to much sh*t from too many people on here. He's a kid that hasn't yet lived up to expectations. Being there for Andrew shows that he's a good person even if he isn't a great bball player yet. I apologize
Accepted, but before typing, look at what people write, take a breath, then go. Too many personal attacks here, crazy.
And yes, Harry wrapping arm around AR was nice gesture, as was the other walk-on next to him.
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I did? Go quote my post again. YOU put the number “5” in. I said top teams in the country. Nice job reading English spaz.
Hahahahaha, he legititmately changed the quote just to be able argue with you? That is as pathetic as it is funny. Who does that?! Hahaha
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Yup those are tough losses. But that’s called sports. Upsets happen. St. John’s beat Duke and Nova. That’s what makes sports special. You win games you aren’t supposed to and lose games you are supposed to win. You can’t expect to win every single game buddy. But I guess you can and be pissed off the rest of your life. I hope you find a team to route for that never gets upset. We really don’t need any extra fans that are haters
Thanks for the advice...not a hater, just HATE losing...way too competitive..at EVERYTHING. fan, worker, whatever, I compete, that's what I do.
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Hahahahaha, he legititmately changed the quote just to be able argue with you? That is as pathetic as it is funny. Who does that?! Hahaha
I don’t even know how to change a quote. You Wojo apologists are petty. How can I screenshot proof I didn’t change the post???
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Sure, but sadly, under Wojo, that seems to be what we have to settle for, be a bubble team, or barely make it in. Sucks, but wait until NEXT year!
Honestly, who do you want coaching this team over the next few years? Who out there is going to give us better results than Wojo? There are going to be 15-20 high major openings this offseason and only a handful of hot names for replacements. Wojo has this team close; let's see if he can figure it out like Wright did.
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1/5/16 @ #8 Providence
1/21/17 @ #7 Creighton
1/24/17 vs #1 Villanova
1/8/18 vs #13 Seton Hall
And realizing I was wrong about Wojo having two top 5 wins. I though Providence was #5 when we beat them. Mea culpa
Thanks. I forgot how good that Creighton win was last year. With the Nova win being the true signature win, it was easy to overlook the other huge win right before it.
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Wojo has sucked against good teams. There I said it.
So did Buzz (as do most coaches).
Buzz was 1-17 against teams ranked #8 or higher. The one win was the Miami beatdown the Elite 8 year.
He did have three wins against teams ranked #9 (and 1 loss) and 1 win against #10 Villanova in the BET.
Conclusion: Beating top teams is hard.
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That doesn't count for the wojo haters because they were missing a player. Nova last year doesn't count for the wojo haters either because of some stupid reason that they'll come up with
Top 15.. Where I set the goalposts from the start. And TAMU already proved me right. The only thing Wojo truly has going for him is the nova win at home where they couldn’t hit an open three if their lives were on the line.
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Top 15.. Where I set the goalposts from the start. And TAMU already proved me right. The only thing Wojo truly has going for him is the nova win at home where they couldn’t hit an open three if their lives were on the line.
Honestly, I'm not going to look up every result against Top 15 of Wojo and Buzz. But, I doubt, that MU (in the last 20 years) has "routinely" (likely >50% of the time) beaten Top 15 teams. Regardless of the coach.
Now, in regards to the data that was presented (Top 5), 20% vs 30% winning against Top 5 teams. Not a huge chasm
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Honestly made my night so much better. Thank you TAMU
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I don’t even know how to change a quote. You Wojo apologists are petty. How can I screenshot proof I didn’t change the post???
I appreciate skianth's insights on this board and am jealous of his boyish good looks. My wife may even consider naming our next child after him. He is an inspiration to all.
After you hit quote, you can still change the text that's included. Like I just did above.
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Thanks for the advice...not a hater, just HATE losing...way too competitive..at EVERYTHING. fan, worker, whatever, I compete, that's what I do.
We are on the same page there. Losing sucks. Being competitive is a great thing. But there need to be realistic expectations.
Being a team like Nova is privilege and should not be taken for granted. What they do is amazing. Would be awesome to be anywhere near that talent level
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Honestly, I'm not going to look up every result against Top 15 of Wojo and Buzz. But, I doubt, that MU (in the last 20 years) has "routinely" (likely >50% of the time) beaten Top 15 teams. Regardless of the coach.
Now, in regards to the data that was presented (Top 5), 20% vs 30% winning against Top 5 teams. Not a huge chasm
I did it for your:
I got
13-29 for Buzz (30.9%)
4-17 for Wojo (19%)
Honestly expected the difference to be greater considering the teams the two coaches had. Also interesting is that Wojo is 3-6 in the last two years. Maybe a sign that things are trending upward.
This is the record against top 15 teams. I didn't look up the records vs top 5 but Wojo would be the winner because Buzz never got a top 5 win.
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Fs1 just showed that butler has never won a big East tourney game. 0-4. Imagine how hard it would be hitting the fan if that were us.
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I did it for your:
This is the record against top 15 teams. I didn't look up the records vs top 5 but Wojo would be the winner because Buzz never got a top 5 win.
Oh. Thanks.
Stats are fun.
Obviously, Wojo could significantly change if given the same # of attempts as Buzz.
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Sam was really bad this tourney
Honestly think Sam is worn out. He's averaged about 36 minutes per game over the last 9 games, and he routinely has to battle big guys who are stronger than him at this stage.
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Oh. Thanks.
Stats are fun.
Obviously, Wojo could significantly change if given the same # of attempts as Buzz.
Wojo would need to go 9-12 against top 15 teams to equal Buzz. If that happens Wojo should get a banner because that would mean we are a top 15 team consistently for the next 6 years.
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Needed a good showing and we Shat the bed.
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Wojo would need to go 9-12 against top 15 teams to equal Buzz. If that happens Wojo should get a banner because that would mean we are a top 15 team consistently for the next 6 years.
Um.. "equal" how? Percent? Total wins?
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Um.. "equal" how? Percent? Total wins?
Literally record. How is this confusing?
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Wojo would need to go 9-12 against top 15 teams to equal Buzz. If that happens Wojo should get a banner because that would mean we are a top 15 team consistently for the next 6 years.
Going 9-12 would be one way to do it....he could also go 4-0 and that would do the job.
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Didn't know where to post this, but Butler wearing some badass uniforms right now.
Not helping them much cause they are getting spanked, but nice.
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Literally record. How is this confusing?
Why would you want him to lose 12 games?
Its very confusing.
Weird.
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Talk about records vs top 5, 15, 25 or 50 are beside the point. So, really is this season or that season's record. Where are we as a program is what matters to me, IMO, we were between 50 and 70 when Crean took over, maybe 30-40 when Buzz got the job and between 15-30 when he left. Four years later i would put us between 50 and 60, equidistant from DePaul and Villanova or St Johns and Xavier. Next year should be a better season - but much more importantly it should signal the beginning of the program's return to prominence. Fingers crossed.
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Talk about records vs top 5, 15, 25 or 50 are beside the point. So, really is this season or that season's record. Where are we as a program is what matters to me, IMO, we were between 50 and 70 when Crean took over, maybe 30-40 when Buzz got the job and between 15-30 when he left.
The program that failed to make the NIT was 15-30?
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The program that failed to make the NIT was 15-30?
You're confusing program and team. Probably intentionally. He even said it's not about one year's record, it's about the total package year in and year out. You even quoted that portion of the comment.
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You're confusing program and team. Probably intentionally. He even said it's not about one year's record, it's about the total package year in and year out. You even quoted that portion of the comment.
OK I guess. I just think a team that misses the NIT is part of a 15-30 program.
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Yup those are tough losses. But that’s called sports. Upsets happen. St. John’s beat Duke and Nova. That’s what makes sports special. You win games you aren’t supposed to and lose games you are supposed to win. You can’t expect to win every single game buddy. But I guess you can and be pissed off the rest of your life. I hope you find a team to route for that never gets upset. We really don’t need any extra fans that are haters
Some people follow teams more aggressively than others and that's their prerogative. It doesn't make them any less of a fan. Some of us want this team to get back to where they were at the beginning of this decade and are frustrated with the progress. Their opinions are real and hearing their point of view brings clarity to the argument. And, no, just because they are disappointed in the result today doesn't mean they will be pissed off the rest of their lives. Lastly, I didn't realize that this was an exclusive club being a fan of Marquette and that you seem to feel that you are the president of the membership committee.
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The program that failed to make the NIT was 15-30?
One Elite 8 (5-8), 2 Sweet 16s (9-16), 1 round of 32 (17-32), 1 round of 64 (33-64), 1 no tourney. 15-30 seems about right, especially since his 3 best seasons included zero inherited players.
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You're confusing program and team. Probably intentionally. He even said it's not about one year's record, it's about the total package year in and year out. You even quoted that portion of the comment.
Thank you.
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One Elite 8 (5-8), 2 Sweet 16s (9-16), 1 round of 32 (17-32), 1 round of 64 (33-64), 1 no tourney. 15-30 seems about right, especially since his 3 best seasons included zero inherited players.
But the team he left was 17-15 and did not make the tournament, and graduated 5 of the top 6 players. That's the team that the new coaching staff inherited.
The 4 years prior to their arrival don't really matter since they didn't inherit any of that roster.
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Wait .... so some of you are OUTRAGED because MU lost to a rested top 5 team in a neutral site game less than 24 hours after playing a (needlessly) close contest?
What the heck did you think was going to happen? MU managed to hang with them for the better part for 25 minutes, but absolutely ran out of gas and couldn't keep up.
The margin of victory was uglier than we'd have hoped for, but anyone who thought MU should have won this game is just clueless.
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Brother guru, we can play this game both ways. What if they lose at Hall, or at Creighton, or at Providence? We're nowhere near the tourney. KenPom picked up us 49th preseason, we're gonna finish right around there. The Big East coaches picked us to finish 7th and we did. We are who we are this year.
Meeting expectations does not = successful season. Buzz's teams each year exceeded the expectations, I loved that. Depaul met expectations this year yet no one there is celebrating. I miss Buzz.
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Meeting expectations does not = successful season. Buzz's teams each year exceeded the expectations, I loved that. Depaul met expectations this year yet no one there is celebrating. I miss Buzz.
I didn’t realize a preseason top 25 team and projected conference champion missing the NIT was exceeding expectations.
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Meeting expectations does not = successful season. Buzz's teams each year exceeded the expectations, I loved that. Depaul met expectations this year yet no one there is celebrating. I miss Buzz.
DePaul actually exceeded expectations this year. And iirc buzz exceeded expectations in maybe half his seasons, he just had higher expectations. And I'd you don't want to celebrate that's fine. I like to enjoy the little things in life.
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Meeting expectations does not = successful season. Buzz's teams each year exceeded the expectations, I loved that. Depaul met expectations this year yet no one there is celebrating. I miss Buzz.
I wouldn't call failing to get past the second round with a team featuring two NBA players and the school's all-time leading scorer as upperclassmen = exceeding expectations, but that's just me.
Same for a team featuring three future NBA players as upperclassmen (including two first-round picks) losing to an 11 seed in the first round.
Really, the only Buzz team that arguably overachieved was his one that made the Elite 8.
I mean, is getting to a Sweet 16 with five guys who've played in the NBA (Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, Jamil Wilson, DJO and Vander Blue) really an overachievement? Or is the fact they were an 11 seed show they underachieved much of the season?
I like Buzz and think he did awesome things at Marquette, but let's not spin tales of legend about him.
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1/5/16 @ #8 Providence
1/21/17 @ #7 Creighton
1/24/17 vs #1 Villanova
1/8/18 vs #13 Seton Hall
And realizing I was wrong about Wojo having two top 5 wins. I though Providence was #5 when we beat them. Mea culpa
I know I will get shredded for this, but none of those team outside Villanova was really a top 15 team, though they were ranked that way at the time. None of them ended up in the top 25.
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I like Buzz and think he did awesome things at Marquette, but let's not spin tales of legend about him.
Buzz Williams was 7 ft tall and killed top 5 teams with mop bucket water from his eyes and lightning balls of chaw out his a$$.
He also did the Texas Two Step with Stormy Daniels on the WVU logo. So there's that too.
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He also did the Texas Two Step with Stormy Daniels on the WVU logo. So there's that too.
Like I said, awesome things.
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I know I will get shredded for this, but none of those team outside Villanova was really a top 15 team, though they were ranked that way at the time. None of them ended up in the top 25.
Wojo only beats the easy top 15 teams
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I wouldn't call failing to get past the second round with a team featuring two NBA players and the school's all-time leading scorer as upperclassmen = exceeding expectations, but that's just me.
Same for a team featuring three future NBA players as upperclassmen (including two first-round picks) losing to an 11 seed in the first round.
Really, the only Buzz team that arguably overachieved was his one that made the Elite 8.
I mean, is getting to a Sweet 16 with five guys who've played in the NBA (Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, Jamil Wilson, DJO and Vander Blue) really an overachievement? Or is the fact they were an 11 seed show they underachieved much of the season?
I like Buzz and think he did awesome things at Marquette, but let's not spin tales of legend about him.
I though we were comparing to preseason expectations. Lets take a look at that
Year Preseason Rank Conf Rank
2008-09 6th 5th
2009-10 10th 5th
2010-11 T8th 9th
2011-12 6th 1st
2012-13 7th 1st
2013-14 7th 6th
I dunno, I think that's exceeding, even thou I'll admit 13-14 was disappointing. You think Wojo's delivered in line with this? Look at the reviews Butler was getting his first year here, people where clamoring he was never gonna be any good. I believe that many successful BB players are made through hard work and coaching, but thats just me.
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I know I will get shredded for this, but none of those team outside Villanova was really a top 15 team, though they were ranked that way at the time. None of them ended up in the top 25.
i think I had a hard time remembering which top teams we had beaten under Wojo for that reason. They were highly ranked when we beat them, but they struggled a little in conference play and ended the season being good but not great teams. I'm sure Buzz had a few of those kinds of wins too. And there's a chance both coaches had some wins over teams that finished their season in the top 15 even if they weren't ranked there when we beat them. I'd assume it mostly evens out for the rankings. Top 15 is a kind of arbitrary bar to set anyway.
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I though we were comparing to preseason expectations. Lets take a look at that
Year Preseason Rank Conf Rank
2008-09 6th 5th
2009-10 10th 5th
2010-11 T8th 9th
2011-12 6th 1st
2012-13 7th 1st
2013-14 7th 6th
I dunno, I think that's exceeding, even thou I'll admit 13-14 was disappointing. You think Wojo's delivered in line with this? Look at the reviews Butler was getting his first year here, people where clamoring he was never gonna be any good. I believe that many successful BB players are made through hard work and coaching, but thats just me.
Where are you getting this data? I might be misremembering but didn't we start 13-14 ranked? I would be surprised if that meant we were projected 7th out of 10.
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Where are you getting this data? I might be misremembering but didn't we start 13-14 ranked? I would be surprised if that meant we were projected 7th out of 10.
Agree, I remember a top 3 projection for '13/14
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Where are you getting this data? I might be misremembering but didn't we start 13-14 ranked? I would be surprised if that meant we were projected 7th out of 10.
Yeah, according to Wiki at least, Marquette was predicted to win the conference in 2013-14.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2%80%9314_Big_East_Conference_men%27s_basketball_season
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Where are you getting this data? I might be misremembering but didn't we start 13-14 ranked? I would be surprised if that meant we were projected 7th out of 10.
My bad, I pulled up old articles but the link I used for 2013-14 went to the 2017 preseason poll and I didn't notice that. Your right, in 13-14 we were preseason #1. However, my point being, over 6 years I'll take one underachieve versus 4 overachieve and one match - and we were probably over ranked in 13-14 because of the prior 5 seasons worth of results.
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I though we were comparing to preseason expectations. Lets take a look at that
Year Preseason Rank Conf Rank
2008-09 6th 5th
2009-10 10th 5th
2010-11 T8th 9th
2011-12 6th 1st
2012-13 7th 1st
2013-14 7th 6th
I dunno, I think that's exceeding, even thou I'll admit 13-14 was disappointing. You think Wojo's delivered in line with this? Look at the reviews Butler was getting his first year here, people where clamoring he was never gonna be any good. I believe that many successful BB players are made through hard work and coaching, but thats just me.
We won two Big East titles?
(Your 11-12 numbers are wrong)
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We won two Big East titles?
(Your 11-12 numbers are wrong)
Syracuse vacated their wins.
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I though we were comparing to preseason expectations. Lets take a look at that
Year Preseason Rank Conf Rank
2008-09 6th 5th
2009-10 10th 5th
2010-11 T8th 9th
2011-12 6th 1st
2012-13 7th 1st
2013-14 7th 6th
I dunno, I think that's exceeding, even thou I'll admit 13-14 was disappointing. You think Wojo's delivered in line with this? Look at the reviews Butler was getting his first year here, people where clamoring he was never gonna be any good. I believe that many successful BB players are made through hard work and coaching, but thats just me.
These types of things are dumb. We were expected to be 7th this year, we finished 7th, but if we won against Depaul we would have been 3rd. So one loss is the difference between being "at" expectations, and vastly exceeding it.
When the middle of the conference is so bunched up meeting/exceeding expectations based on conference finish is meaningless.
Also comparing Buzz (inherited the 3 Amigos; and had been recruiting to Marquette already as an assistant) to Wojo (inherited a stinking pile of horse dung; and was brand new to the program) in their first couple years is stupid.
Even then, we placed 11th in 2010-11 not 9th.
You can't throw out teams that vacate wins in the final standings, but keep them in the preseason rankings. That is biased.
And as others noted, we were predicted to win in 2013-14 and finished 6th.
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These types of things are dumb. We were expected to be 7th this year, we finished 7th, but if we won against Depaul we would have been 3rd. So one loss is the difference between being "at" expectations, and vastly exceeding it.
When the middle of the conference is so bunched up meeting/exceeding expectations based on conference finish is meaningless.
Also comparing Buzz (inherited the 3 Amigos; and had been recruiting to Marquette already as an assistant) to Wojo (inherited a stinking pile of horse dung; and was brand new to the program) in their first couple years is stupid.
Even then, we placed 11th in 2010-11 not 9th.
You can't throw out teams that vacate wins in the final standings, but keep them in the preseason rankings. That is biased.
And as others noted, we were predicted to win in 2013-14 and finished 6th.
Well if you toss out losses to teams who cheated, MU finished 2nd. Honest question, what objective measure would you grade Wojo on? Personally? And as a program?
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Well if you toss out losses to teams who cheated, MU finished 2nd. Honest question, what objective measure would you grade Wojo on? Personally? And as a program?
I tend to use NCAA seeds and Kenpom rankings. Generally, I think these are two of the more consistent measures in evaluating a coach.
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Well if you toss out losses to teams who cheated, MU finished 2nd. Honest question, what objective measure would you grade Wojo on? Personally? And as a program?
Tournament appearances and seed.
In my opinion, given what Wojo inherited, he outperformed expectations the last 3 years, and was at expectations this year.
We are comparing two coaches here, where 1 inherited a team with the 3-Amigos and Lazar Hayward, and the other inherited a steaming pile of horse crap.
Stupid comparisons. Wojo needs to be in the NCAA's next year. He does that he is performing well.
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Tournament appearances and seed.
In my opinion, given what Wojo inherited, he outperformed expectations the last 3 years, and was at expectations this year.
We are comparing two coaches here, where 1 inherited a team with the 3-Amigos and Lazar Hayward, and the other inherited a steaming pile of horse crap.
Stupid comparisons. Wojo needs to be in the NCAA's next year. He does that he is performing well.
I think this pretty much explains the divide on this board. For example, my personal expectation before the season was 8-10 and 7th, hoping for a NIT bid. After Maui, I thought we could go higher and make the NCAAs. That's the rational side of my brain.
As a program, one where our AD is benchmarking new arena prices to programs like UNC and Duke, I expect more. This is where the emotional arguments of posters like Guru and Goose come in. It is more subjective, and it's not really fair to call it stupid.
All Scoop posters are invested, but there is a large majority who don't come here or come in occasionally. They are not as rational but also represent the vast majority of the STH base.
To me, Wojo passes the rational side even as I look at what he has coming in, but the program side is a big IF. Next season will be a very wild ride.