MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 19, 2018, 08:18:37 AM
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Per Andy Katz on Twitter:
From @MarquetteMBB: Markus Howard has a right hip contusion. He is listed as doubtful for Wednesday's game against St. John's. Injury occurred during win at Creighton Saturday.
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Good news if he escaped with just a deep bone bruise.
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Uh oh. No bueno. This is one of those things that you can't really do a lot to treat, right?
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Uh oh. No bueno. This is one of those things that you can't really do a lot to treat, right?
Rest, ice, NSAIDS and ease back into It.
To be fair, depending on how bad it is, he could 100% play Wednesday. Maybe bring him off the bench?
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Uh oh. No bueno. This is one of those things that you can't really do a lot to treat, right?
Um, not a doctor, but I think that’s way better than finding a tear or fracture. Also, if it was really serious, pretty sure he would be listed as definitively out against SJU.
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Um, not a doctor, but I think that’s way better than finding a tear or fracture. Also, if it was really serious, pretty sure he would be listed as definitively out against SJU.
Yah I think that this is nothing but great news.
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Um, not a doctor, but I think that’s way better than finding a tear or fracture. Also, if it was really serious, pretty sure he would be listed as definitively out against SJU.
Yeah, definitely better than a fracture or tear, no doubt about that. It's not a great situation, but it definitely could have been worse.
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Not a medical professional, but in a family of them. This basically means rest and pain management.
It's good news, but on the other hand, this will probably linger with him for quite some time. Beat SJU without him and I feel better about getting him even more rest.
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This is great news. Grind it out against SJU and find a way to win and then take your chances needing 2 wins against DePaul, Georgetown, and Creighton.
I guess that pressure Vegas was putting on the MU athletic department to give them an update on Markus before they set their line for Wednesday paid off after all.
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Not a medical professional, but in a family of them. This basically means rest and pain management.
It's good news, but on the other hand, this will probably linger with him for quite some time. Beat SJU without him and I feel better about getting him even more rest.
Can you spell HPPIAA?
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Can you spell HPPIAA?
I know you can't spell it without HIP
and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
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Good to hear that he's darn sore but truly okay.
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"The hip is a long way from the heart" - Herb Brooks
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Excellent news. Thought he might be definitively out for the rest of the season. With SJU and DePaul coming up, I think you gotta try to win without him and let him rest.
Rowdy.... Your table is set
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To be fair, depending on how bad it is, he could 100% play Wednesday. Maybe bring him off the bench?
I doubt it, unless they are being extremely cautious with him, he was still on crutches yesterday not putting any weight on it.
Was at the Al yesterday for the women's Bball game, saw Markus there.
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Excellent news. Thought he might be definitively out for the rest of the season. With SJU and DePaul coming up, I think you gotta try to win without him and let him rest.
Rowdy.... Your table is set
I think Rowsey takes the bull by the horns and goes bonkers next few games. Just need to keep him out of foul trouble.
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I doubt it, unless they are being extremely cautious with him, he was still on crutches yesterday not putting any weight on it.
Was at the Al yesterday for the women's Bball game, saw Markus there.
Eeekk. Crutches eh?
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I think Rowsey takes the bull by the horns and goes bonkers next few games. Just need to keep him out of foul trouble.
We don't want Rowsey going bonkers. We want him to play how he did in the second half at Creighton. He got others involved.
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We don't want Rowsey going bonkers. We want him to play how he did in the second half at Creighton. He got others involved.
I didn’t necessarily mean bonkers as in going off for 50. Probably bad choice of words. But I meant playing really good basketball, as he did 2H Saturday.
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Eeekk. Crutches eh?
Did somebody have to hold the door open for him at Jimmy Johns?
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Eeekk. Crutches eh?
At least no boot or go anywhere close to Jimmy Johns, hey?
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Markus Howard (right hip contusion) is doubtful for Wednesday's game vs. St. John's and will continue to be evaluated. Per, Marquette.
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Frankly, I never get why players don't use crutches more often and why they feel compelled to walk off on their own power in obvious pain. If you're hurt and you have time, stay off the injured body part completely to maximize your vastly intelligent body to heal without getting in its way. I don't want Howard limping around so we can feel marginally better about the situation.
EDIT: I'm hopeful that the crutches are the equivalent of a precautionary boot.
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I doubt it, unless they are being extremely cautious with him, he was still on crutches yesterday not putting any weight on it.
Was at the Al yesterday for the women's Bball game, saw Markus there.
Crutches = not a great sign.
Having said that, and not trying to diminish the injury, the amount of kids/basketball players/athletes that I have sent home from the ER with crutches (with no fracture) because they didn't want to put weight on their ankle or leg before the next practice or game is fairly high. So it may be precautionary.
Again not at all trying to diminish the injury, markus' pain tolerance or the MU training staff. Just my perspective and what I have done and seen done.
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Crutches = not a great sign.
Having said that, and not trying to diminish the injury, the amount of kids/basketball players/athletes that I have sent home from the ER with crutches (with no fracture) because they didn't want to put weight on their ankle or leg before the next practice or game is fairly high. So it may be precautionary.
Again not at all trying to diminish the injury, markus' pain tolerance or the MU training staff. Just my perspective and what I have done and seen done.
I don't think it's a sign one way or the other. Could mean he can't put weight on it or that not putting weight on it will help resolve it faster. As long as he doesn't pass out at a 31 flavors we should be good to go.
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I doubt it, unless they are being extremely cautious with him, he was still on crutches yesterday not putting any weight on it.
Was at the Al yesterday for the women's Bball game, saw Markus there.
Was he wearing these?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Rubber_hip_boots.jpg)
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Probably trying to trick the Selection committee into thinking he can play in a tourney game. FML
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Definitely going to affect his sweet dance moves for awhile.
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Honestly, I find it a little strange I am not more concerned about this. Howard is arguably our best player, and leading scorer, but I just feel like the remaining personnel will require this team to play zone, which is clearly a much better defensive scheme for this group of guys. We obviously need Howard if we want to make anything of this season, but with our next three games against the bottom three teams in the conference, I feel like we can survive without him. Hopefully Marquette can play good ball in the meantime, and makes it clear to Wojo that this team Is at its best with just one of Markus and Rowsey on the court at once.
Here is to hoping we get A+ Rowsey in the meantime.
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I don't think it's a sign one way or the other. Could mean he can't put weight on it or that not putting weight on it will help resolve it faster.
This.
Basically, we know nothing more than he is unlikely to play Wednesday, which at least is more than we knew yesterday.
"Contusion" is now the go-to word to describe a wide range of sports injuries. Even though it is defined as a "bruise," it is used as a catch-all description of multiple injuries - and it isn't a lie because even if he dislocated his hip, he no doubt also suffered bruising.
I have seen football players miss a month or more with what have been described as "contusions." Also have seen players return later in the same game with "contusions."
So I will try not to read too much into this. I am not expecting Markus to play Wednesday, and we'll go from there.
Also agree with those hoping for a performance from Rowsey similar to his second half against Creighton and his games against Vermont, DePaul and Seton Hall. We don't need the "mad bomber" Rowsey, we need the "make everybody better" Rowsey - who also is capable of hitting a bomb or 4 if necessary.
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This.
Basically, we know nothing more than he is unlikely to play Wednesday, which at least is more than we knew yesterday.
"Contusion" is now the go-to word to describe a wide range of sports injuries. Even though it is defined as a "bruise," it is used as a catch-all description of multiple injuries - and it isn't a lie because even if he dislocated his hip, he no doubt also suffered bruising.
I have seen football players miss a month or more with what have been described as "contusions." Also have seen players return later in the same game with "contusions."
So I will try not to read too much into this. I am not expecting Markus to play Wednesday, and we'll go from there.
Also agree with those hoping for a performance from Rowsey similar to his second half against Creighton and his games against Vermont, DePaul and Seton Hall. We don't need the "mad bomber" Rowsey, we need the "make everybody better" Rowsey - who also is capable of hitting a bomb or 4 if necessary.
Muscle contusions come in three grades, grade I, grade II, and grade III. The recovery timeline for a grade I can be less than a week, and it is easy to play on. Grade II you might play on the same day, but you shouldn't, recovery can be up to 4 weeks. Grade III can be months.
Same injury, different degrees of trauma to the muscle.
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Honestly, I find it a little strange I am not more concerned about this. Howard is arguably our best player, and leading scorer, but I just feel like the remaining personnel will require this team to play zone, which is clearly a much better defensive scheme for this group of guys. We obviously need Howard if we want to make anything of this season, but with our next three games against the bottom three teams in the conference, I feel like we can survive without him. Hopefully Marquette can play good ball in the meantime, and makes it clear to Wojo that this team Is at its best with just one of Markus and Rowsey on the court at once.
Here is to hoping we get A+ Rowsey in the meantime.
This is the silver lining I'm looking at with the Howard injury. It will finally force Wojo to accept that this team is at it's best not playing it's two bombers together and playing a 2-3 zone a lot of the time. Elliot and Cain should be getting 35+ minutes a game between the two of them.
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This is great news. Grind it out against SJU and find a way to win and then take your chances needing 2 wins against DePaul, Georgetown, and Creighton.
I guess that pressure Vegas was putting on the MU athletic department to give them an update on Markus before they set their line for Wednesday paid off after all.
Yes fantastic news - and good one on Vegas :-)
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Honestly, I find it a little strange I am not more concerned about this. Howard is arguably our best player, and leading scorer, but I just feel like the remaining personnel will require this team to play zone, which is clearly a much better defensive scheme for this group of guys. We obviously need Howard if we want to make anything of this season, but with our next three games against the bottom three teams in the conference, I feel like we can survive without him. Hopefully Marquette can play good ball in the meantime, and makes it clear to Wojo that this team Is at its best with just one of Markus and Rowsey on the court at once.
Here is to hoping we get A+ Rowsey in the meantime.
Agree completely.
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I think Rowsey takes the bull by the horns and goes bonkers next few games. Just need to keep him out of foul trouble.
By bonkers, does that mean 30 plus shots per game?
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By bonkers, does that mean 30 plus shots per game?
You joke, but Marcus comes way closer to the 30 shots per game ::)
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This is the silver lining I'm looking at with the Howard injury. It will finally force Wojo to accept that this team is at it's best not playing it's two bombers together and playing a 2-3 zone a lot of the time. Elliot and Cain should be getting 35+ minutes a game between the two of them.
Yep, absolutely. I think defenses are going to start collapsing a little more with Sacar slashing (especially after last game) giving Hauser and Rowsey more looks, assuming Sacar can find them. Also excited to see the zone look for a few more games especially against SJU - let Ponds shoot 3s all day.
This team could be a heck of a lot more complete going into the BE tourney assuming Howard is back and hopefully Wojo has a better feel of how to play Markus/Howard after the latter's absence - there are times when I want them both on the floor.
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Hopefully, he heals quickly. Howard being out may hurt our offense. However, I think we are better defensively without playing two under 6' guards. Biggest problem might be foul trouble.
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This.
Basically, we know nothing more than he is unlikely to play Wednesday, which at least is more than we knew yesterday.
"Contusion" is now the go-to word to describe a wide range of sports injuries. Even though it is defined as a "bruise," it is used as a catch-all description of multiple injuries - and it isn't a lie because even if he dislocated his hip, he no doubt also suffered bruising.
I have seen football players miss a month or more with what have been described as "contusions." Also have seen players return later in the same game with "contusions."
So I will try not to read too much into this. I am not expecting Markus to play Wednesday, and we'll go from there.
Also agree with those hoping for a performance from Rowsey similar to his second half against Creighton and his games against Vermont, DePaul and Seton Hall. We don't need the "mad bomber" Rowsey, we need the "make everybody better" Rowsey - who also is capable of hitting a bomb or 4 if necessary.
If he dislocated his hip, he wouldn't be playing. The crutches are probably for comfort. If he's still using them, it probably really hurts to move. This will likely be the 2012 Davante injury. He will come back when ready, but nobody has any idea when.
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As long as it we beat SJU it doesnt matter. Id rather Markus take the time to heal. I think MU can beat SJU at home without him.
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Bein' fitted for an ass boot as wee type, aina?
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Folks, there is no silver lining in MH being hurt and missing playing time. I would not be looking for a better D to overshadow the loss of leading scorer. The zone worked on Saturday, but I would not bet the farm it happening again anytime soon. Howard out is a big time loss for the team.
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We don't want Rowsey going bonkers. We want him to play how he did in the second half at Creighton. He got others involved.
Excellent point. We need a point guard who shares. If Rowsey does that our chances go up significantly. We know he can score but we need more team play.
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I want Sam to go bonkers again. He has shown he is completely capable of taking over a game in the past, and he might just get the volume to do it while Markus is out.
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Excellent point. We need a point guard who shares. If Rowsey does that our chances go up significantly. We know he can score but we need more team play.
Again with the myths. Andrew has an assist rate of 24.7% in conference (with a turnover rate of only 14.1%). Brunson's AR is 24.3%. Both are high usage PGs.
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Folks, there is no silver lining in MH being hurt and missing playing time. I would not be looking for a better D to overshadow the loss of leading scorer. The zone worked on Saturday, but I would not bet the farm it happening again anytime soon. Howard out is a big time loss for the team.
That's just not true. It's not preferable, but there is a silver lining evidenced solely by what occurred in the second half on Saturday. We absolutely do not win that game if Markus is still playing. And that's NOT a knock on MH - kid is a flat-out stud - but on the coaching staff. We can be a really good NIT team with Markus and Rowsey playing major/overlapping minutes. We just might be dancing if we stagger their PT with some prudent overlap.
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Windy
Agree to disagree. One half of zone D does not overshadow a season of being leading scorer. I think you are a bit over jacked for only one half of zone D to judge from. My guess, is that Chris M. might be more prepared for a zone than the idiot at CU.
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Can you spell HPPIAA?
can you?
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That's just not true. It's not preferable, but there is a silver lining evidenced solely by what occurred in the second half on Saturday. We absolutely do not win that game if Markus is still playing. And that's NOT a knock on MH - kid is a flat-out stud - but on the coaching staff. We can be a really good NIT team with Markus and Rowsey playing major/overlapping minutes. We just might be dancing if we stagger their PT with some prudent overlap.
Lets just be careful in assuming that just because zone worked for one half that MU has suddenly unlocked the magic that is going to carry us into the post-season. As Goose said, teams will adjust.
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Windy
Agree to disagree. One half of zone D does not overshadow a season of being leading scorer. I think you are a bit over jacked for only one half of zone D to judge from. My guess, is that Chris M. might be more prepared for a zone than the idiot at CU.
You may be right. As usual, time will tell.
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Folks, there is no silver lining in MH being hurt and missing playing time. I would not be looking for a better D to overshadow the loss of leading scorer. The zone worked on Saturday, but I would not bet the farm it happening again anytime soon. Howard out is a big time loss for the team.
Goose is absolutely correct on this.
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That's just not true. It's not preferable, but there is a silver lining evidenced solely by what occurred in the second half on Saturday. We absolutely do not win that game if Markus is still playing. And that's NOT a knock on MH - kid is a flat-out stud - but on the coaching staff. We can be a really good NIT team with Markus and Rowsey playing major/overlapping minutes. We just might be dancing if we stagger their PT with some prudent overlap.
I also agree with Goose. Just because Creighton didn't capitalize on the holes in our zone doesn't mean they weren't there. Davion Mintz is not Shamorie Ponds.
We're better defensively when we have more size on the floor, regardless of whether we are in zone or man.
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Lets just be careful in assuming that just because zone worked for one half that MU has suddenly unlocked the magic that is going to carry us into the post-season. As Goose said, teams will adjust.
Other teams will adjust, but I think that it is easier to do in game defensive adjustments with a zone. After CU got 2 or 3 alley-oops in a row, Matt stayed deeper, and gave up the 15 foot jumper. CU wasn't able to take advantage of that shot being available, if other teams can, we will either be in trouble, or we will need to make another adjustment. What impressed me about the zone was our ability to rebound while playing it. CU isn't a great offensive rebounding team, but it seemed like they never got second chance opportunities in the second half, which was impressive given the way rebounding numbers typically drop in a zone vs mtm.
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Lets just be careful in assuming that just because zone worked for one half that MU has suddenly unlocked the magic that is going to carry us into the post-season. As Goose said, teams will adjust.
Yes. But, I don't think there was a massive drop-off in offense though (yes, I know, just one half). Marquette did score 49 in the second half, 90 total (failed to hit that in the last 9 games). Point being, Wojo has to unlock the code to maximize potential using that Zone D and which other four look best with either Rowsey or Howard running the point.
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Goose is absolutely correct on this.
Then you are just ignoring what happened on Saturday.
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Windy
I would not want to bet a NCAA bid on your analysis. But as you stated, my opinion "is not true".
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The beautiful thing is that we'll find out Wednesday.
I know that's not as much fun as each of us proclaiming he or she knows exactly what will happen, however.
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Windy
Agree to disagree. One half of zone D does not overshadow a season of being leading scorer. I think you are a bit over jacked for only one half of zone D to judge from. My guess, is that Chris M. might be more prepared for a zone than the idiot at CU.
I don't think I'd go so far as to call McDermott and idiot, but you're right that other coaches will be more prepared for our zone now. And I'm hoping Mack doesn't have to think about it at all. I'd prefer to avoid X in the BET if at all possible.
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Since Markus scored 52, he has hardly picked up his head when he's had the ball at all. This was the first game that I remember thinking the ball actually moved well offensively since the game at Providence. But I did think the ball was moving better even before Markus got injured in this game. It just happened to continue throughout the entire game, and the defense improved in the second half.
Our defense isn't going to suddenly be good, whether we're in man or zone. It comes down to whether we can score, and score efficiently, on our opponents. If we can, we'll win 3 out of 4 or better. If we can't, we won't. But to get it done the ball needs to move, and a lot of times Markus can get us 30 but our offense can be worse off for it.
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We don't want Rowsey going bonkers. We want him to play how he did in the second half at Creighton. He got others involved.
Yes, and even in a very solid 2nd half from AR, there were 2-3 WTF moments.
He is our best distributor—can find Ge JC SA etc. but one thing is for sure that AR will try to get his.
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MU82
I have no idea what will happen. But, if, and I see if, our playing a zone D more often would have proven to be successful, like Sat night, than Wojo should be fired on the spot for not playing it more this season. I think Wojo may have been more surprised with the success than anyone on here was Saturday night.
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I don't think I'd go so far as to call McDermott and idiot, but you're right that other coaches will be more prepared for our zone now. And I'm hoping Mack doesn't have to think about it at all. I'd prefer to avoid X in the BET if at all possible.
But Chris Mullin might figure it out Wednesday
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MU82
I have no idea what will happen. But, if, and I see if, our playing a zone D more often would have proven to be successful, like Sat night, than Wojo should be fired on the spot for not playing it more this season. I think Wojo may have been more surprised with the success than anyone on here was Saturday night.
This is kind of my point. The team and Wojo had to do things out of necessity on Saturday and that was the silver lining in losing Howard (hopefully, for a very short period of time). Even if the only silver lining is that we won on Saturday - that's a huge one! Without it, we are all resigned to the NIT (or worse).
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All opposin' coaches gotta due is shut down Rowsey and dair the rest of da team ta beet 'em, hey?
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I have no idea what will happen. But, if, and I see if, our playing a zone D more often would have proven to be successful, like Sat night, than Wojo should be fired on the spot for not playing it more this season. I think Wojo may have been more surprised with the success than anyone on here was Saturday night.
That's a fair point, Goose. I think Wojo knows exactly how his team plays zone. He tried it several times earlier this season and it was pretty bad. And as TAMU pointed out in another thread, Wojo went to it almost exclusively after it helped us in the 2nd half against Nova last year, and we went 1-4.
So your comment about Wojo himself being surprised with how well his desperation move worked Sat might be spot-on.
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Since Markus scored 52, he has hardly picked up his head when he's had the ball at all. This was the first game that I remember thinking the ball actually moved well offensively since the game at Providence.
But to get it done the ball needs to move, and a lot of times Markus can get us 30 but our offense can be worse off for it.
#FakeNews
Markus’ assist rate post the 52p game is higher than from the start of the year through that game
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Yes. But, I don't think there was a massive drop-off in offense though (yes, I know, just one half). Marquette did score 49 in the second half, 90 total (failed to hit that in the last 9 games). Point being, Wojo has to unlock the code to maximize potential using that Zone D and which other four look best with either Rowsey or Howard running the point.
No there wasn't a massive drop off in offense. In fact the offense I believe improved. (Thanks Sacar!)
But my point is that every game is different. Just because Howard being out "worked" v. Creighton doesn't mean it will work v. St. Johns.
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But Chris Mullin might figure it out Wednesday
Haha, the other Chris M. My bad.
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That's a fair point, Goose. I think Wojo knows exactly how his team plays zone. He tried it several times earlier this season and it was pretty bad. And as TAMU pointed out in another thread, Wojo went to it almost exclusively after it helped us in the 2nd half against Nova last year, and we went 1-4.
So your comment about Wojo himself being surprised with how well his desperation move worked Sat might be spot-on.
The major difference between this iteration of the zone and previous is that we was very often playing both Rowsey and Howard at the top of the zone. Too easy to get passes to the middle of the zone with those two. With Howard's injury he was forced to get the perimeter taller so a better zone.
Basically to this point Wojo decided that maximizing both Rowsey and Howard minutes is the way to win no matter the cost on defense. Saturday night forced him out of that.
Personally, I'd like to see them go box and 1 with Sacar/Elliot on Ponds all game. Not sure if the team can learn it that quick, but they need to do something different than they did the first match up.
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I think the solution to St. John's is to have Theo go head first into their water cooler, making them dehydrated in the second half. Its one strategy that should work every game and I have yet to see it implemented since Seton Hall the first time.
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Haha, the other Chris M. My bad.
Ha yeah, pretty easy to just think of Mack on that one
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I think the solution to St. John's is to have Theo go head first into their water cooler, making them dehydrated in the second half. Its one strategy that should work every game and I have yet to see it implemented since Seton Hall the first time.
Or what about Theo sharing cups with them and giving them all the Flu?
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I think the solution to St. John's is to have Theo go head first into their water cooler, making them dehydrated in the second half. Its one strategy that should work every game and I have yet to see it implemented since Seton Hall the first time.
+10. I had forgotten that. Season highlight at home for sure.
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Eeekk. Crutches eh?
No walking boot for hip injuries.
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Windy
I would not want to bet a NCAA bid on your analysis. But as you stated, my opinion "is not true".
I think Goose's opinion is reflective of the conventional wisdom. That doesn't mean it can't be wrong, but the payoff better be pretty damn big to justify a bet against it.
So unless someone knows something everyone else doesn't, I wouldn't necessarily presume a repeat of Saturday, but being the fan of chaos theory that I am, I would certainly understand if this team turned out to be better off without Marcus and Rowsey on the court at the same time.
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Windy
I would not want to bet a NCAA bid on your analysis. But as you stated, my opinion "is not true".
I get it. But the alternative is doing the same thing that led us dangerously close to our bubble popping on Sat night. At least now we have a really, really, really, rough blueprint of how we just might hear our name called on SS.
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There is no advantage to Markus being out. That said, his minutes will go to Greg and Jamal and they will provide the length and athleticism needed to compete with the Johnnies.Sam will also get more looks. So I think it should be a good game and I see us winning.
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There is no advantage to Markus being out. That said, his minutes will go to Greg and Jamal and they will provide the length and athleticism needed to compete with the Johnnies.Sam will also get more looks. So I think it should be a good game and I see us winning.
I want to point out that some of the best performances we have had as a team in the past two seasons have been those in which Markus was not a factor.
Anyone remember last year's home game against Villanova?
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Just win, baby!
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I want to point out that some of the best performances we have had as a team in the past two seasons have been those in which Markus was not a factor.
Anyone remember last year's home game against Villanova?
It's the Ewing Theory!! http://proxy.espn.com/espn/page2/story?id=1193711
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I don’t want my comments this morning to be misunderstood. In no way is having Markus unavailable a good thing. But the fact that Markus and AR will not be able to play together, even though they’re really MU’s only reliable guards, could be a benefit. I could see how having those two and not playing them both much at all together would be incredible difficult to do. But the evidence is there that this team just isn’t very good when both of them play together. And as we know, it’s rare they both have great games together against quality teams. This forces Wojo to ride one horse.
Early results were good, but if we get bad Rowsey with no Markus, we’re not beating many high major teams.
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Our defense isn't going to suddenly be good, whether we're in man or zone. It comes down to whether we can score, and score efficiently, on our opponents. If we can, we'll win 3 out of 4 or better. If we can't, we won't. But to get it done the ball needs to move, and a lot of times Markus can get us 30 but our offense can be worse off for it.
I agree about the offense/defense. In the large majority of our losses, it wasn't about the d defense. It will rarely be about the defense because we don't go from a top 50 to top 200 in games. Our defense goes from bad to marginally acceptable, at best.
If we aren't scoring, we aren't gonna win. Ever. Because we don't have the defense to make up for a lack of scoring.
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Windy
Thanks. You state my argument on things better than I do. Three years and 26 games in, I don’t a rough, rough, rough blueprint on anything. I guess possibly how a NC would look, but not trying a zone defense without the leading scorer.
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This is great news. Grind it out against SJU and find a way to win and then take your chances needing 2 wins against DePaul, Georgetown, and Creighton.
I guess that pressure Vegas was putting on the MU athletic department to give them an update on Markus before they set their line for Wednesday paid off after all.
needing 2 wins of those 3?
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Only on scoop could losing the Big East's leading scorer be considered a good thing.
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Only on scoop could losing the Big East's leading scorer be considered a good thing.
I, for one, was not saying that losing Markus is a good thing. I was saying that we have demonstrated that we can win without him.
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Only on scoop could losing the Big East's leading scorer be considered a good thing.
You were all aboard the "statistics show that playing both midgets together sucks" train last week. What happened?
Not having Markus sucks. Not having to play Markus and Rowsey together, in my opinion, comes pretty close to making up for it. That's how bad the defense is when they play together.
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TAMU
Only homers, idiots or liars can find silver lining on MH being out.
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It isn't surprising that we struggle defensively when the midgets play a ton of minutes together.
What is surprising is how very rarely both have played well offensively in the same game. One would think it has to be some kind of freaky coincidence, but it's really amazing how it's been that way game after game after game after game.
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TAMU
Only homers, idiots or liars can find silver lining on MH being out.
Do you think Wojo was suddenly going to change his ways 27 games into the season? Because he’s made it pretty clear that he felt playing Markus and Rowsey together was our best overall lineup most of the time despite their +\- figures being atrocious together.
Silver lining is that perhaps 1.5 or 2.5 games of seeing just one midget on the court at a time will concince the staff that playing the two together all the time was a terrible idea from the start. That’s the potential silver lining, not Markus getting hurt.
Markus doesn’t get hurt, MU more than likely lose on Saturday and we’re looking at running the table to have any prayer for an at large. Now we have room for 1 loss. At this juncture, that’s significant. But not having Howard is obviously a huge blow, the kid is stud.
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TAMU
Only homers, idiots or liars can find silver lining on MH being out.
Speaking in absolutes is not your or anybody’s best look.
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You were all aboard the "statistics show that playing both midgets together sucks" train last week. What happened?
Not having Markus sucks. Not having to play Markus and Rowsey together, in my opinion, comes pretty close to making up for it. That's how bad the defense is when they play together.
And then if Rowsey gets in foul trouble we are toast.
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And then if Rowsey gets in foul trouble we are toast.
Playing zone should help minimize fouls.
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Playing zone should help minimize fouls.
Yeah, but Rowsey usually gets dumb fouls during transition or trying to strip rebounds. Plus he is going to really have to play extended minutes or are we ready for 10-15 minutes of Elliott at the point?
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Yeah, but Rowsey usually gets dumb fouls during transition or trying to strip rebounds. Plus he is going to really have to play extended minutes or are we ready for 10-15 minutes of Elliott at the point?
Rowsey HAS to play smarter on the defensive end, no doubt.
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Yeah, but Rowsey usually gets dumb fouls during transition or trying to strip rebounds. Plus he is going to really have to play extended minutes or are we ready for 10-15 minutes of Elliott at the point?
And the occasional loose cannon Technical
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And the occasional loose cannon Technical
He's been behaving lately.
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Speaking in absolutes is not your or anybody’s best look.
(http://78.media.tumblr.com/2c16afa5ee003cafb0d265c996a3768d/tumblr_n7drtbOrCm1qex0dmo6_250.gif)
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Do you think Wojo was suddenly going to change his ways 27 games into the season? Because he’s made it pretty clear that he felt playing Markus and Rowsey together was our best overall lineup most of the time despite their +\- figures being atrocious together.
Silver lining is that perhaps 1.5 or 2.5 games of seeing just one midget on the court at a time will concince the staff that playing the two together all the time was a terrible idea from the start. That’s the potential silver lining, not Markus getting hurt.
Markus doesn’t get hurt, MU more than likely lose on Saturday and we’re looking at running the table to have any prayer for an at large. Now we have room for 1 loss. At this juncture, that’s significant. But not having Howard is obviously a huge blow, the kid is stud.
Great post in its entirety. Bolded gets to the heart of the issue. Nobody is saying Markus being hurt is a good thing, but that the staff may be saved from themselves and their perception that playing Markus and Rowsey together substantial minutes with a M2M defensive strategy was the formula for success.
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Floorslapper
If "the staff" needs an injury to team's leading scorer to be saved from themselves, the program is in major trouble. You really think you and J5 have some figured out that "the staff" doesn't? I really, really hope that is not the case. If so, I might want to lead the anti Wojo train.
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Floorslapper
If "the staff" needs an injury to team's leading scorer to be saved from themselves, the program is in major trouble. You really think you and J5 have some figured out that "the staff" doesn't? I really, really hope that is not the case. If so, I might want to lead the anti Wojo train.
I mean...I get the urge to want to play your best two guards at the same time. I am not claiming to know more about hoops than Wojo...that comical. But it's not like we're making sh*t up. I don't have the numbers handy, but as of a couple games ago, the Howard/Rowsey combo was like -40 in BE season. Markus alone was -4. Rowsey alone was around +20. I'd love to see the updated numbers, but I am certain the Markus/Rowsey combo has not improved, and I am certain the Rowsey alone +/- has improved. It was at least +20 something last game alone.
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J5
Mostly only teasing Floorslapper. That said, I hope Wojo&Co are aware with those numbers.
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J5
Mostly only teasing Floorslapper. That said, I hope Wojo&Co are aware with those numbers.
He is no doubt aware. Which sort of begs the question why he continued to roll with the lineup so often.
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He is no doubt aware. Which sort of begs the question why he continued to roll with the lineup so often.
The answer really isn't that difficult to see. While we can sit here from behind our keyboards and suggest what Wojo should do, Wojo has to actually do it. And the kicker is that Andrew and Markus aren't video game avatars...they're real people with feelings and emotions! A coach has to balance the egos and personalities of his players on top of strategy. We don't have to.
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J5
Mostly only teasing Floorslapper. That said, I hope Wojo&Co are aware with those numbers.
Meh... numbers don't mean a thing at this level. CYA rules the day. Case in point: Every MLB manager is aware of the statistical advantage of batting the pitcher 8th (in certain situations), and yet, how many of those 30 managers actually do? Further case in point: Punting on 4th & 4 beyond your own 45 is statistically moronic (as is kicking the FG outside the opposing 29) but yet again, how many NFL coaches always go for it in those situations?
Imagine if the statistics indeed showed that MU is less efficient with both AR and MH on the court together, if Wojo split them up for the rest of the season and MU goes 0-5, is anyone going to be saying, "well, gosh... you can't blame Wojo; he made the right call." Conversely, you go 0-5 with AR and MH on the court together for 35 mpg, and how many are going to say "Dammit, Wojo, why didn't you play the numbers!" instead of "well, they tried their best... nothing Wojo could have done there."
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Probably trying to trick the Selection committee into thinking he can play in a tourney game. FML
M2DL
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M2DL
D League?
Or Disabled List?
:-\
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Wojo presser just came out on Twatter...
Markus doubtful - not sure if long or short term doubftul - depends on how he responds to treatment. Wojo said he suffered "significant" back and hip injuries though. Yikes.
Also made it pretty clear he is going to leave it up to the doctors on whether Markus will play or not. We won't be seeing Markus playing unless he's 95-100%, is my guess.
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Wojo presser just came out on Twatter...
Markus doubtful - not sure if long or short term doubftul - depends on how he responds to treatment. Wojo said he suffered "significant" back and hip injuries though. Yikes.
Also made it pretty clear he is going to leave it up to the doctors on whether Markus will play or not. We won't be seeing Markus playing unless he's 95-100%, is my guess.
The reference to a back injury is concerning - though weird that they did not release a diagnosis for the same.
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Wojo presser just came out on Twatter...
Markus doubtful - not sure if long or short term doubftul - depends on how he responds to treatment. Wojo said he suffered "significant" back and hip injuries though. Yikes.
Also made it pretty clear he is going to leave it up to the doctors on whether Markus will play or not. We won't be seeing Markus playing unless he's 95-100%, is my guess.
Also said "moving forward without Markus" towards the end of his comments. Based on Wojo's comments, I'd be pretty shocked if he played again this season. And that's a damn shame.
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D League?
Or Disabled List?
:-\
Disabled List, obvi. It's the G leage now.
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Also said "moving forward without Markus" towards the end of his comments. Based on Wojo's comments, I'd be pretty shocked if he played again this season. And that's a damn shame.
If he doesn't play, I do think that may put a pin in any tourney hopes we are holding on to. Hard to imagine Rowsey playing 37-40 minutes per night and it not catching up with him.
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If he doesn't play, I do think that may put a pin in any tourney hopes we are holding on to. Hard to imagine Rowsey playing 37-40 minutes per night and it not catching up with him.
While I tend to agree, the fact we likely will be exclusively zone should help conserve some energy. Unfortunately we play 3 games in the next 6 days. Wojo will have to get creative on getting Andrew some rest. I could see any/all of Greg, Sam and possibly even Sacar help with initiating the offense while Andrew is on the bench.
However, there is a small part of me that feels the whole team will respond really well, and the ball will be shared much better, inspiring better play on both ends by all the guys.
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If he doesn't play, I do think that may put a pin in any tourney hopes we are holding on to. Hard to imagine Rowsey playing 37-40 minutes per night and it not catching up with him.
Well, he just has to do it for 4 games. And he gets 4 days off between GT and Creighton. But yeah, it's asking a lot. Playing zone on defense would help.
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Also said "moving forward without Markus" towards the end of his comments. Based on Wojo's comments, I'd be pretty shocked if he played again this season. And that's a damn shame.
That little comment is the one that makes me shudder. Brings back nightmares of Travis and Dominic....
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Well, he just has to do it for 4 games. And he gets 4 days off between GT and Creighton. But yeah, it's asking a lot. Playing zone on defense would help.
And luckily we have an exhibition game sandwiched in between St. Ponds & the Georgetown game
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Not to split hairs, and I'm going from memory and could be entirely wrong, but I don't believe Wojo ever said significant injury to his hip and back, but rather said it was a bad blow to his hip and back and then later said generally it was a significant injury. Now what that means I don't know as I suspect Wojo doesn't either. I was optimistic it will be a game or two after watching it -- basically just whenever the pain subsides enough for him to give it a go.
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And luckily we have an exhibition game sandwiched in between St. Ponds & the Georgetown game
Good point.
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Something doesn't seem right though...I THINK/HOPE we are reading too much into Wojo's "moving forward without Markus" comment. Why?? Because he is listed as doubtful for tomorrow night...you would think that IF the injury was as severe as Wojo seems to imply, then he would have been listed as OUT right away. Doubtful means not likely to play, but it does leave open the miniscule chance he COULD be ready to go..no way would he be with a MAJOR injury.
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Keep on Trucking.
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Something doesn't seem right though...I THINK/HOPE we are reading too much into Wojo's "moving forward without Markus" comment. Why?? Because he is listed as doubtful for tomorrow night...you would think that IF the injury was as severe as Wojo seems to imply, then he would have been listed as OUT right away. Doubtful means not likely to play, but it does leave open the miniscule chance he COULD be ready to go..no way would he be with a MAJOR injury.
Maybe he is listed as "doubtful" instead of "out" to force SJU to prepare for the possibility that Markus will play.
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Maybe he is listed as "doubtful" instead of "out" to force SJU to prepare for the possibility that Markus will play.
I doubt that...if someone is listed as doubtful, these teams know that the chances he plays are slim...it's almost like being out anyway.
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Something doesn't seem right though...I THINK/HOPE we are reading too much into Wojo's "moving forward without Markus" comment. Why?? Because he is listed as doubtful for tomorrow night...you would think that IF the injury was as severe as Wojo seems to imply, then he would have been listed as OUT right away. Doubtful means not likely to play, but it does leave open the miniscule chance he COULD be ready to go..no way would he be with a MAJOR injury.
Are we really parsing Wojo's comments this carefully? I am sure y'all putting much more effort into analyzing every word than he did composing it.
This wasn't some reviewed-by-six-lawyers "no controlling legal authority" type of statement.
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Something doesn't seem right though...I THINK/HOPE we are reading too much into Wojo's "moving forward without Markus" comment. Why?? Because he is listed as doubtful for tomorrow night...you would think that IF the injury was as severe as Wojo seems to imply, then he would have been listed as OUT right away. Doubtful means not likely to play, but it does leave open the miniscule chance he COULD be ready to go..no way would he be with a MAJOR injury.
wojo mind games
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This wasn't some reviewed-by-six-lawyers "no controlling legal authority" type of statement.
HPPIAA?
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(https://www.pinterest.com/pin/372250725429203487/)
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I am assuming we won't see Markus again at least until the BET. Maybe not again this season. I have no basis for assuming that ... but that way if I'm wrong, it means we're getting good news. I prefer the pleasant surprise to the unpleasant surprise!
Despite our success at Creighton, I agree with Goose and a few others that this is not a "good news" situation. I'd rather have Markus, a player capable of carrying us offensively for long stretches.
However, I also agree with those who take this bad news and try to find some silver linings because, well, that beats the hell out of doom and gloom.
One silver lining, as others have said (and I concur), is that we tend to do better with only one midget on the court.
Another is that we'll get a look for at least a few minutes every game (and more in some games, especially if and when Rowsey gets in foul trouble) of how Elliott handles the point. If he does well, then this actually could be a "blessing in disguise" deal.
True story: Back when I was a middle school coach, my PG and MVP - the best player in our league, IMHO - suffered a concussion. She had to miss 4 games. The first game she missed was right after Xmas break, the very first day back to school, and we didn't even have time to practice without her. We played our very worst 11 minutes of my 4 years at the school. Our second-best player choked under the pressure, and the rest of the girls followed her lead to oblivion. It was like we had never seen the basketball before. Clearly bad coaching - and I'm not saying that to just be self-depricating; I hadn't prepared the team well enough. We were down 15-0. Yes, we had zero points in 11 minutes.
A few minutes before halftime, a girl who had averaged about 1 point per game over her season and a half made a 15-footer. We got a stop and then she made another 15-footer. We got another stop and then she drove to the basket and got fouled, making a FT.
I won't bore you with the entire play-by-play, but we ended up battling all the way back to lose by 2. That player finished with 13 points, more than double her career high. Two days later we played again without our PG and the new, improved player scored 18. She had more points in those 2 games than she had scored in 1 1/2 seasons. Her success also helped our second-best player, who now didn't feel so much pressure.
When our PG came back, we now had 3 scoring options. It was as if we had made a major midseason trade - and didn't even have to give up anything. We ended up winning our second straight championship, and that girl led our team in scoring in the playoffs.
So ...
We already have seen Sacar step up big-time with Markus out. Maybe next game it will be Greg. Maybe it will be Cain the game after that.
Brian Freakin' Doyle replaced an injured Willie Randolph and batted .438 to help the Yankees win the 1978 World Series.
Strange stuff happens all the time in sports.
To quote the late, great Joaquin Andujar: "There is one word in America that says it all, and that word is, 'You never know.'"
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Kinda like dat fat broad and her lack of singin', aina?
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HPPIAA?
Well played.
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I doubt that...if someone is listed as doubtful, these teams know that the chances he plays are slim...it's almost like being out anyway.
Professional sports teams do that kind of thing all the time. Most obvious example is the Patriots
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I am assuming we won't see Markus again at least until the BET. Maybe not again this season. I have no basis for assuming that ... but that way if I'm wrong, it means we're getting good news. I prefer the pleasant surprise to the unpleasant surprise!
Despite our success at Creighton, I agree with Goose and a few others that this is not a "good news" situation. I'd rather have Markus, a player capable of carrying us offensively for long stretches.
However, I also agree with those who take this bad news and try to find some silver linings because, well, that beats the hell out of doom and gloom.
One silver lining, as others have said (and I concur), is that we tend to do better with only one midget on the court.
Another is that we'll get a look for at least a few minutes every game (and more in some games, especially if and when Rowsey gets in foul trouble) of how Elliott handles the point. If he does well, then this actually could be a "blessing in disguise" deal.
True story: Back when I was a middle school coach, my PG and MVP - the best player in our league, IMHO - suffered a concussion. She had to miss 4 games. The first game she missed was right after Xmas break, the very first day back to school, and we didn't even have time to practice without her. We played our very worst 11 minutes of my 4 years at the school. Our second-best player choked under the pressure, and the rest of the girls followed her lead to oblivion. It was like we had never seen the basketball before. Clearly bad coaching - and I'm not saying that to just be self-depricating; I hadn't prepared the team well enough. We were down 15-0. Yes, we had zero points in 11 minutes.
A few minutes before halftime, a girl who had averaged about 1 point per game over her season and a half made a 15-footer. We got a stop and then she made another 15-footer. We got another stop and then she drove to the basket and got fouled, making a FT.
I won't bore you with the entire play-by-play, but we ended up battling all the way back to lose by 2. That player finished with 13 points, more than double her career high. Two days later we played again without our PG and the new, improved player scored 18. She had more points in those 2 games than she had scored in 1 1/2 seasons. Her success also helped our second-best player, who now didn't feel so much pressure.
When our PG came back, we now had 3 scoring options. It was as if we had made a major midseason trade - and didn't even have to give up anything. We ended up winning our second straight championship, and that girl led our team in scoring in the playoffs.
So ...
We already have seen Sacar step up big-time with Markus out. Maybe next game it will be Greg. Maybe it will be Cain the game after that.
Brian Freakin' Doyle replaced an injured Willie Randolph and batted .438 to help the Yankees win the 1978 World Series.
Strange stuff happens all the time in sports.
To quote the late, great Joaquin Andujar: "There is one word in America that says it all, and that word is, 'You never know.'"
Richie "Trotter" Dreyfus from Let it Ride knew that EVEN WHEN YOU KNOW....you never know!
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Just saw Markus walking around campus with no crutches. Although he has a noticeable limp when he walks.
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Just saw Markus walking around campus with no crutches. Although he has a noticeable limo when he walks.
Seems like an inappropriate use of university resources to devote a whole LIMO to him.
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Just saw Markus walking around campus with no crutches. Although he has a noticeable limo when he walks.
That is great news!
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Just saw Markus walking around campus with no crutches. Although he has a noticeable limo when he walks.
Good. The way some people were speculating, I'm just happy he still has two legs.
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Seems like an inappropriate use of university resources to devote a whole LIMO to him.
It's now known as a "driving boot".
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Yeah gotta believe that if he’s at least already able to walk without crutches he should have a solid chance to play at somepoint soon.
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It's now known as a "driving boot".
+1
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Just saw Markus walking around campus with no crutches. Although he has a noticeab
Nice! Bodes super well if doctors are already comfortable with him walking around without crutches.
...but how does that bode for our zone moving forward (I kid, Goose).
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He is no doubt aware. Which sort of begs the question why he continued to roll with the lineup so often.
To re-ignite the debate, I honestly believe Wojo has blinders when it comes to this because he is so focused on the 3pt line. He knows that is where basketball is going and has a team that can excel at it offensively so he steers it that way plus he builds his defense entirely around stopping the 3 (hence aggressive hedges, switching 1 through 5, and overplaying the 3 point line). Anything else he views as surrendering too many 3s to win.
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Yeah gotta believe that if he’s at least already able to walk without crutches he should have a solid chance to play at somepoint soon.
Just prop him up at the 3-point line.
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It's now known as a "driving boot".
Must be taking a page from Stainbrook's book.
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With an injury like this, he's day to day. No one really knows how long it will take for him to come back, including Markus probably.
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With an injury like this, he's day to day. No one really knows how long it will take for him to come back, including Markus probably.
That is pretty much what I unscientifically figured.
Hopefully for his sake he's not a side sleeper.
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Just prop him up at the 3-point line.
That should help Markus avoid foul trouble.
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That should help Markus avoid foul trouble.
.
Wouldn’t hurt his defense any
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It's official.....Markus out tonight
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It's official.....Markus out tonight
Ben Steele
Verified account @BenSteeleMJS
3m3 minutes ago
Ben Steele Retweeted MarquetteMBB
Markus Howard on sideline in jeans during MU's warmup. No crutches, making passes to teammates.
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Ben Steele
Verified account @BenSteeleMJS
3m3 minutes ago
Ben Steele Retweeted MarquetteMBB
Markus Howard on sideline in jeans during MU's warmup. No crutches, making passes to teammates.
Came here to post that the team walked through the Courtside Club and no Markus.
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Where is the guy who ripped Theo for not trying to play...Christ Markus is throwing passes but he won't even suit up. What a sissy.
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Where is the guy who ripped Theo for not trying to play...Christ Markus is throwing passes but he won't even suit up. What a sissy.
C'mon man ... if Markus were playing he'd be jacking up shots, not passing to his teammates!
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c-spine injury aint need no boot or crutch hay
that's the real concern 4 me.
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Richie "Trotter" Dreyfus from Let it Ride knew that EVEN WHEN YOU KNOW....you never know!
Good movie. Beautiful Hialeah.
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c-spine injury aint need no boot or crutch hay
that's the real concern 4 me.
I'd like to hear your rationale for a cervical injury
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To quote the late, great Joaquin Andujar: "There is one word in America that says it all, and that word is, 'You never know.'"
Joaquin is dead? Yikes.
He was a great Cardinal. Not so great in the seventh game of the 1985 World Series but, then again, that game never should have been played. Right Don Denkinger?
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Watched him during time outs and pregame/ half time. No noticeable limp, but also didn't look comfortable.
I'd like to hear your rationale for a cervical injury
Me too. Any suspicion of a cervical injury would have brought a collar and spine board out during the game.
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C'mon man ... if Markus were playing he'd be jacking up shots, not passing to his teammates!
I chuckled....loudly.
The good news is that our zone had very few holes in it....the same can't be said for Markus's jeans.
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Good movie. Beautiful Hialeah.
Yep. Hialeah is on a couple historic registries. Just a few years ago, they brought the track back to life with a limited Quarter horse meet. That was short-lived though, and I'm not sure what the future of the property is. The only thing more beautiful than Hialeah in that flick was Ms Tilly and her red dress. The line of the movie (and there were many great ones) was when her bodacious-chested character approached Trotter from behind, placed her hands over his eyes, and said, "Guess Who?"
Trotter replies, "A football salesman?"
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Me too. Any suspicion of a cervical injury would have brought a collar and spine board out during the game.
Collar yes, but spinal boards should really only be used for movement, if at all. They force the spine into an unnatural position and can cause more harm than help.
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The student section has a cervical injury......
One giant hole in it!
Good, bad, or in-different......You show up!
After all college at Marquette is not rocket science.....