MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on January 15, 2018, 09:52:57 PM
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1. A nice bounce back. Way to take out your frustrations on a cupcake.
2. MU's defensive stats are going to be helped.
3. Positive contributions by each and every one of the less heralded 6.
4. So sloppy. So painful to watch at times.
5. The midgets were abysmal. But it didn't matter tonight.
6. But it was DePaul and now there are 9 days off to rest, regroup, refocus.
7. I had the over. Ah, well.
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4. So sloppy. So painful to watch at times.
5. The midgets were abysmal. But it didn't matter tonight.
Understatements.
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Number 1 is right on the head. Felt more like a cupcake game than a big east game. Hard to watch but I'll take the win.
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Was it 5 games in 11 days? I'll write it off on that. Effort was there on defense.
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1. TCB
2. Next
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Theo is progressing nicely.
Best game from Harry, very active.
Jamal with incredibly athleticism.
Other than that pretty awful all around.
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Ugliest game of the year so far, but there were some bright spots that make me hopeful for the remainder of the year and the next couple of years. Seeing Theo play aggressively but under control and throwing down some big dunks was awesome. He's my vote for most improved this year. Greg and Jamal both have a good nose for the ball on D. At times, they both needed to slow things down a bit, but I like seeing some fast break opportunities, especially ones that end at the rim. And Harry looked like a solid big tonight. He did a great job getting into position for rebounds and did a nice job distributing the ball from the post as well. He still seems to get winded quickly, but I'm guessing one more summer of boot camp will get him past that conditioning hump.
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Rowsey and Howard go 4 for 19, with 3 for 14 from three and eight turnovers (MU had 16) and they win by 18.
Take it and rest. Something was off with Markus tonight, has like two duds in a row, so he due for X.....
Best game for Froling. Had a few looks at taking a three and realed it in. Good for him.
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Harry + either Matt or Theo = much better D than usual.
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Rowsey shot bad. Other then that had great passing and defense. He ended with 5? Turnovers and a couple should have been attributed to others. Also would have over 10 assists islf people would have converted.
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Four Big East wins with Georgetown, DePaul and SJU (2) to go. Then hold serve at home (2out of 3) versus Butler, PC or Creighton. A few more surprises and a Top 4 finish, with a little sprinkle of fairy dust defense, who knows?
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Great night for them to have a horrible game. Hope they keep working on that defense, which I think had at least a little bit to do with DePaul?s uber-wretchedness tonight. This team is going to keep getting better.
Don?t know if anyone noted, Markus still perfect from the line. Dickie talked right over it. Keep the streak going!
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Everyone bitches about our poor defense and then when we win and hold our opponents to 52, people bitch about the poor offense.
Shots were just off tonight, lots of open looks we just didn?t hit. 5 games in 11 games will do that to your legs.
Defense was very active and guys were very tough under the basket.
Take it and go prepare for a huge week vs. X and V.
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According to Wojo, Markus is sick. That could explain his rough couple of games. Impressive he still hasn't missed a FT even with that.
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Everyone bitches about our poor defense and then when we win and hold our opponents to 52, people bitch about the poor offense.
Shots were just off tonight, lots of open looks we just didn?t hit. 5 games in 11 games will do that to your legs.
Defense was very active and guys were very tough under the basket.
Take it and go prepare for a huge week vs. X and V.
MU held DePaul to 14-37 in the paint (37%). Wojo dropped three back in the paint at most points, no high hedging, won rebounding total with all those misses. The underclassmen brought energy on D.
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As long as Jean Lenti-Ponsetto is the AD at DePaul, they will remain at the bottom of the Big East. DePaul, despite having a brand new arena, is one terrible basketball program with an apparent lack of Big East-quality talent. Leitao honestly looks like he is phoning it in at this point.
Rowsey did not have a good game. At all. I'll chalk it up to playing down to the competition and trying to get too cute with the ball many times. Whatever - onto the next game against X. Hauser was solid and I was really impressed with Froling. He looks to be settling into a nice role off the bench.
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I legit felt sad for DePaul, had to turn the game off. I wish DU was good, would love to see a heated MU/DU rivalry. That program is just the epitome of sadness.
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Harry Froling, inches from greatness.
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You know what boys? This was like our 5th game in the last couple weeks. Been a grind where frankly the only less than successful effort was at Butler. We're sitting at 4-3 with 9 days to regroup before another tough stretch. All good.
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Everyone bitches about our poor defense and then when we win and hold our opponents to 52, people bitch about the poor offense.
Shots were just off tonight, lots of open looks we just didn?t hit. 5 games in 11 games will do that to your legs.
Defense was very active and guys were very tough under the basket.
Take it and go prepare for a huge week vs. X and V.
Welcome to scoop - where certain segments of the population are only happy with we lose <2 each year and blow every team out by 35 while shooting >75%
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Harry Froling, inches from greatness.
Story of my life
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"DePaul: Putting the D back into MU Defense". Best defensive game of the year drops MU below the Mendoza Line (#180 down to #145).
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I know folks get frustrated with our Warriors sometimes. Even I do every once in a blue moon.
But how 'bout if you had to watch THAT team all the time?
Horribly coached. More than half the time, whoever got the ball for DePaul just drove into the lane and tossed total crap toward the basket. Little motion. Few screens on or away from the ball. The players seem pretty clueless, too - they aren't blameless, that's for sure.
Our two 20-point scorers barely did a thing - and it wasn't because the Demons played any defense; it was just because our shooting was off - and yet this was an annihilation from beginning to end.
This is the first time I've seen DePaul this season, and I really wonder how they won 8 games.
As for our side ...
Nice all-around game by Sam, as usual.
Each of our centers had his moments. Harry had his best game, and Theo had his career high.
That little stretch from Cain was absolutely electric. So excited about how good he can be.
Elliott got out of control too often, negating some of the good stuff he did.
Rowsey had several excellent dishes, but he also tried some really silly ones. He had Sam wide open for a 3 but instead of just passing it to him, he went for a completely unnecessary no-look pass and air-mailed it. Also a little loose with the ball. In general, however, I do like the "set up my teammates as well as myself" AR.
2 more FTs in the bank for Markus - 2 more and he ties Novak. He also had a few nice passes. Gotta get well and get shooting again, though!
9 days off and then a huge, very demanding five-game stretch. Win 2 of those, and I'll feel very confident about us dancin'. Win 3, and it's a done deal. Crazily, we probably could survive 0-5 ... but I don't want it to come to that!
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Harry + either Matt or Theo = much better D than usual.
Yeah. DePaul had plenty of dribble penetration and shots near the rim but with two of those three + Hauser very few uncontested close shots.
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I legit felt sad for DePaul, had to turn the game off. I wish DU was good, would love to see a heated MU/DU rivalry. That program is just the epitome of sadness.
I was actually at the DePaul vs. Providence game last Friday. My dad got free tickets from work and they were nice seats, so we went. The arena is actually really nice.
Anyway, during the game with like a minute left, DePaul pulls within 3 and the arena is going crazy (it wasn't even half filled).Moments later Providence starts to pull away and Strus jacks up a terrible contested shot that barely hit the rim. That was it for DePaul and It just immediately deflated that entire arena. (Except for the large section of Providence fans). Their one moment of happiness was gone so quickly, with just a small moment to savor it.
The guy in front of me turns to his friend and says "we were THIS close.." and his friend replies back, "we've been THIS close for years... I'm sick of being close" After I heard that it just made me sad. We complain about so many things but we have no idea what a terrible program really looks like.
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It's so weird that JLP has been allowed to continue on as AD overseeing a 13-year tournament drought and four head coaching failures. Around here the skies were falling after three tourney misses.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400988576
Great balance.
Reading Wojo's post game comments, Howard has been sick all weekend. Reading between the lines, if there were more options, he probably would have played even less.
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Can we get off the Rowsey hate in this thread for a second? I get as frustrated as many of you do with him, but he was the player we need him to be in this game.
At one point late in the second half he had 5 points (all from the line) and 8 assists. Clearly, he's been working on distributing when he knows that his shot isn't falling. That's on Wojo for coaching him up and on Andrew for listening.
Found this interesting re: Rowsey's assist numbers across his career. Notice the huge jump from his career averages to this year.
13-14: 2.9 a/g
14-15: 2.9 a/g
16-17: 2.3 a/g (by far the fewest minutes of his career)
17-18: 4.3 a/g
His per 40 mins stats show an even more impressive growth since coming to MU.
13-14: 3.3 a/40
14-15: 3.5 a/40
16-17: 4.5 a/40
17-18: 5.4 a/40
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Can we get off the Rowsey hate in this thread for a second? I get as frustrated as many of you do with him, but he was the player we need him to be in this game.
Not hate, frustration. There was no need for a number of his turnovers. He was trying for a SC highlight, needlessly. I have no problem calling him out for that no matter the numbers he puts up in other categories.
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Apparently, our floor is 18 point better than DePaul's.
Nice to see Froling play with confidence and be active. Hauser was solid, the frosh got some good run, but not much to get excited about here. Nice stretch now to recharge the batteries and get ready for the upcoming gauntlet. For some reason I think we have a very good chance to knock off X.
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" plenty of dribble penetration and shots near the rim"
Sounds like a productive nite ta mee, hey?
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We looked tired. Late tip and weather made the crowd quiet.
Thank God we were playing DePaul. They were legitimately awful. It’s tough for me to find a bright spot with that team.
Now for nine days off. It will help.
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It was a nice win. It was not a pretty win. Because of the sloppy play, it is easy to overlook the good.
- Defense was really locked in. MU contested very well in the lane and DePaul didn't hit any threes until very late.
- Contributions from unusual sources. Jamal, Theo, and Harry all played very well on both ends.
- 2 of our last 3 games have featured really good defense.
- MU got an 18pt win playing its most sloppy game of the year.
-13-6 4-3 Nine days off.
- MU still does not have a truly 'bad' loss. MU's 'worst' losses are to Georgia and Butler.
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Pretty good on defense but no intensity overall. Found myself strangely disinterested in this game (even flipping over to Cavs / Warriors periodically), especially once we were blowing them out.
Hauser seems like the one constant every night. Markus and Rowsey were off, but really liked how Theo and Froling played.
Poor DePaul. Even on an off night we beat them by 18.
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The re-hiring of Dave Leitao is proving to be the horrible decision most people thought it would be. That looked like a horribly coached team with zero energy. Hiring him after the uninspired hires of Wainwright and Purnell...At some point the athletic director has to be on the hook for this right?
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The re-hiring of Dave Leitao is proving to be the horrible decision most people thought it would be. That looked like a horribly coached team with zero energy. Hiring him after the uninspired hires of Wainwright and Purnell...At some point the athletic director has to be on the hook for this right?
You would think. Don't worry she'll really make waves rehiring Joey Meyer or pat Kennedy next
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The re-hiring of Dave Leitao is proving to be the horrible decision most people thought it would be. That looked like a horribly coached team with zero energy. Hiring him after the uninspired hires of Wainwright and Purnell...At some point the athletic director has to be on the hook for this right?
Actually, DePaul has been hanging tough with teams all year and even beat Oregon. Last night was a horrible shooting night for DePaul. Just one game sample. That game at DePaul could prove to be quite a bit harder. I would give Leitao a longer rope here. Again, it was one game.
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The re-hiring of Dave Leitao is proving to be the horrible decision most people thought it would be. That looked like a horribly coached team with zero energy. Hiring him after the uninspired hires of Wainwright and Purnell...At some point the athletic director has to be on the hook for this right?
I listened to the Big East Coast Pod this morning and they had a guy on from the DePaul student radio station. He said that it feels like DePaul just keeps hiring the same guy. Wainright, Purnell, even Leitao were all retreads that had some success elsewhere, but never really broke through. Also pointed out that all three of their last hires were guys in their 50s when they got there, so there's none of the young and hungry type fire.
He mentioned how he thought Tyger Campbell was a bit of a make-or-break recruit for Leitao, that if they can reaffirm that commitment, Leitao will get at least 2-3 years with Campbell to turn it around, but if not, they may make a move sooner rather than later. Not sure I believe that simply because it's DePaul, but he also pointed out how they missed on Bryce Drew and Bobby Hurley, both of whom are making big impacts at their new schools. Said he'd even be happy with an assistant type after watching Chris Collins (Jon Scheyer was mentioned as an Illinois native).
I have to say, I don't mind DePaul continuing to suck because in any league, someone has to lose and I'm glad it's not us, but it has to be really hard to cheer for that team. This will likely be their 11th straight season with 12+ conference losses, and the 14th straight without a NCAA bid. I have to imagine if that happened here, Scoop would be a ghost town by then.
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I have to imagine if that happened here, Scoop would be a ghost town by then.
Nah, we'd still have each other and would bring insults, in-fighting, and wallowing in self pity to even greater heights.
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It's so weird that JLP has been allowed to continue on as AD overseeing a 13-year tournament drought and four head coaching failures. Around here the skies were falling after three tourney misses straight bad games, even if we won one or two of them.
FIFY
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Actually, DePaul has been hanging tough with teams all year and even beat Oregon. Last night was a horrible shooting night for DePaul. Just one game sample. That game at DePaul could prove to be quite a bit harder. I would give Leitao a longer rope here. Again, it was one game.
They didn't beat Oregon and they don't have any good wins and they have a serious lack of talent. MU sleptwalk to a 20pt win last night. That program is an absolute disgrace.
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I listened to the Big East Coast Pod this morning and they had a guy on from the DePaul student radio station. He said that it feels like DePaul just keeps hiring the same guy. Wainright, Purnell, even Leitao were all retreads that had some success elsewhere, but never really broke through. Also pointed out that all three of their last hires were guys in their 50s when they got there, so there's none of the young and hungry type fire.
He mentioned how he thought Tyger Campbell was a bit of a make-or-break recruit for Leitao, that if they can reaffirm that commitment, Leitao will get at least 2-3 years with Campbell to turn it around, but if not, they may make a move sooner rather than later. Not sure I believe that simply because it's DePaul, but he also pointed out how they missed on Bryce Drew and Bobby Hurley, both of whom are making big impacts at their new schools. Said he'd even be happy with an assistant type after watching Chris Collins (Jon Scheyer was mentioned as an Illinois native).
I have to say, I don't mind DePaul continuing to suck because in any league, someone has to lose and I'm glad it's not us, but it has to be really hard to cheer for that team. This will likely be their 11th straight season with 12+ conference losses, and the 14th straight without a NCAA bid. I have to imagine if that happened here, Scoop would be a ghost town by then.
I think Scheyer would be a good hire for DePaul.
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It's so weird that JLP has been allowed to continue on as AD overseeing a 13-year tournament drought and four head coaching failures. Around here the skies were falling after three tourney misses.
Yes, most people's expectations here are that our program be better than DePaul's. Some (horrors and zounds!!!) dare to have expectations similar to Xavier's. A few total whack jobs see no reason that we can't be what Gonzaga or Villanova is. And many think that being entertaining and making the tournament some of the time is swell. Different strokes. All legit, I guess.
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Actually, DePaul has been hanging tough with teams all year and even beat Oregon. Last night was a horrible shooting night for DePaul. Just one game sample. That game at DePaul could prove to be quite a bit harder. I would give Leitao a longer rope here. Again, it was one game.
If by horrible shooting you mean, a little bit below their typical average then you are 100% correct. Their eFG% is 289th in the country....they shoot the ball horribly on the regular.
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Yes, most people's expectations here are that our program be better than DePaul's. Some (horrors and zounds!!!) dare to have expectations similar to Xavier's. A few total whack jobs see no reason that we can't be what Gonzaga or Villanova is. And many think that being entertaining and making the tournament some of the time is swell. Different strokes. All legit, I guess.
Lenny:
We absolutely should aspire to at least Xavier-level success, and it is reasonable to believe that we could get to the level of Villanova and Gonzaga. We were pretty much there under Buzz, so it's obviously reasonable to think it could happen again.
Realistically, when a coach bails and leaves a bare cupboard, it takes time to rebuild. The realist in me is happy with the progress Wojo has made - 20 wins 2nd year; NCAAs 3rd (and hopefully 4th) year; postseason success (hopefully) 5th year and beyond. Having such an entertaining team is definitely a plus IMHO - sports are supposed to be entertainment.
As much as I love MU hoops and want us to be huge on the national scene again, I can't climb on the ledge every time we have a bad game - or even a bad season. It's basketball. Thankfully, most (not all, but most) Scoopers have other things to give our lives meaning.
I went to the Butler game, traveling from Charlotte to Indy for probably the only MU game I'll see in person this season. I was thrilled when we rallied to take the 67-60 lead. I was disappointed when we ended up losing (in the same arena where Villanova gave up 101 points in a loss just 2 weeks earlier). But I then had a fun weekend with my buddy and his family. A few hours after I got home from the trip, I watched our lads thrash DePaul. That's life, baby!
Those pining for Al-level success ... well, it's a different world. This just in: Other coaches go into inner cities to recruit black players now.
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Lenny:
We absolutely should aspire to at least Xavier-level success, and it is reasonable to believe that we could get to the level of Villanova and Gonzaga. We were pretty much there under Buzz, so it's obviously reasonable to think it could happen again.
Realistically, when a coach bails and leaves a bare cupboard, it takes time to rebuild. The realist in me is happy with the progress Wojo has made - 20 wins 2nd year; NCAAs 3rd (and hopefully 4th) year; postseason success (hopefully) 5th year and beyond. Having such an entertaining team is definitely a plus IMHO - sports are supposed to be entertainment.
As much as I love MU hoops and want us to be huge on the national scene again, I can't climb on the ledge every time we have a bad game - or even a bad season. It's basketball. Thankfully, most (not all, but most) Scoopers have other things to give our lives meaning.
I went to the Butler game, traveling from Charlotte to Indy for probably the only MU game I'll see in person this season. I was thrilled when we rallied to take the 67-60 lead. I was disappointed when we ended up losing (in the same arena where Villanova gave up 101 points in a loss just 2 weeks earlier). But I then had a fun weekend with my buddy and his family. A few hours after I got home from the trip, I watched our lads thrash DePaul. That's life, baby!
Those pining for Al-level success ... well, it's a different world. This just in: Other coaches go into inner cities to recruit black players now.
Well said 82. Road trip to MKE sometime. You'll enjoy yourself.
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Yes, most people's expectations here are that our program be better than DePaul's. Some (horrors and zounds!!!) dare to have expectations similar to Xavier's. A few total whack jobs see no reason that we can't be what Gonzaga or Villanova is. And many think that being entertaining and making the tournament some of the time is swell. Different strokes. All legit, I guess.
Strawman.
There is little disagreement on what MU should aspire to; however, not everyone agrees how fast they should reasonably be expected to get there after a total teardown.
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If anything this game actually made me more optimistic in a sense. Sam is emerging as truly the best player on the team. I can see why Wojo said he's the smartest player he's ever coached. If Joey has similar basketball IQ....imagine them on the court together next year. Look out.
To see continued progression from our young guys is promising. If Markus was sick + Rowsey had an off shooting night and we still destroyed Depaul it's a good sign. Yeah it's Depaul, but games like this help guys like Harry, Theo, Jamal, Matt, Sacar and Greg build confidence. We rely on our scoring back court a lot. Thought Rowsey distributed well and he did match 5 turnovers with 5 steals at least.
Nice to get some fast break points (Sacar's steal and dunk, Jamal in transition, Sam pulling up for three, etc). It's refreshing to watch us pass into the post. All three of our biggest guys have some go-to moves and a variety of skills. Harry is going to get more and more comfortable. Theo is no longer picking up fouls when screening while maintaining his aggressiveness around the hoop. I love watching this team.
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Yes, most people's expectations here are that our program be better than DePaul's. Some (horrors and zounds!!!) dare to have expectations similar to Xavier's. A few total whack jobs see no reason that we can't be what Gonzaga or Villanova is. And many think that being entertaining and making the tournament some of the time is swell. Different strokes. All legit, I guess.
Explain why Marquette cant have Villanova type success? What does Villanova have that MU doesn't? I believe MU will eventually be what Nova is. (Gonzaga is not a fair comparison) That doesn't make me a whack job.
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Explain why Marquette cant have Villanova type success? What does Villanova have that MU doesn't? I believe MU will eventually be what Nova is. (Gonzaga is not a fair comparison) That doesn't make me a whack job.
A head coach that has been there for 16 years. That continuity is the difference
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A head coach that has been there for 16 years. That continuity is the difference
Right, but I said I believe MU can eventually have Nova success not that it can have it now.
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Well said 82. Road trip to MKE sometime. You'll enjoy yourself.
My son lives in Chicago and my little brother lives in Milwaukee, so I do get to the area occasionally. The schedule just didn't work out for me to do it during this basketball season. I'll hopefully get to at least one game in the new arena next year.
Mostly, though, I'd like to be sitting in the Charlotte arena watching us win two NCAA tourney games this March!
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I listened to the Big East Coast Pod this morning and they had a guy on from the DePaul student radio station. He said that it feels like DePaul just keeps hiring the same guy. Wainright, Purnell, even Leitao were all retreads that had some success elsewhere, but never really broke through. Also pointed out that all three of their last hires were guys in their 50s when they got there, so there's none of the young and hungry type fire.
He mentioned how he thought Tyger Campbell was a bit of a make-or-break recruit for Leitao, that if they can reaffirm that commitment, Leitao will get at least 2-3 years with Campbell to turn it around, but if not, they may make a move sooner rather than later. Not sure I believe that simply because it's DePaul, but he also pointed out how they missed on Bryce Drew and Bobby Hurley, both of whom are making big impacts at their new schools. Said he'd even be happy with an assistant type after watching Chris Collins (Jon Scheyer was mentioned as an Illinois native).
I have to say, I don't mind DePaul continuing to suck because in any league, someone has to lose and I'm glad it's not us, but it has to be really hard to cheer for that team. This will likely be their 11th straight season with 12+ conference losses, and the 14th straight without a NCAA bid. I have to imagine if that happened here, Scoop would be a ghost town by then.
Hey watch it, I'm not quite ready for Ghost Town Scoop!
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If anything this game actually made me more optimistic in a sense. Sam is emerging as truly the best player on the team. I can see why Wojo said he's the smartest player he's ever coached. If Joey has similar basketball IQ....imagine them on the court together next year. Look out.
To see continued progression from our young guys is promising. If Markus was sick + Rowsey had an off shooting night and we still destroyed Depaul it's a good sign. Yeah it's Depaul, but games like this help guys like Harry, Theo, Jamal, Matt, Sacar and Greg build confidence. We rely on our scoring back court a lot. Thought Rowsey distributed well and he did match 5 turnovers with 5 steals at least.
Nice to get some fast break points (Sacar's steal and dunk, Jamal in transition, Sam pulling up for three, etc). It's refreshing to watch us pass into the post. All three of our biggest guys have some go-to moves and a variety of skills. Harry is going to get more and more comfortable. Theo is no longer picking up fouls when screening while maintaining his aggressiveness around the hoop. I love watching this team.
Well said. To be able to win convincingly when two of your three best players are way off their games is a positive. Defense was MUCH better last night than Butler. Less high hedging on pick and roll. Protected the paint. DePaul is better this year than they have been.
Great contributions from everyone other than Rowsey and Howard. Bodes well moving forward.
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Lenny:
We absolutely should aspire to at least Xavier-level success, and it is reasonable to believe that we could get to the level of Villanova and Gonzaga. We were pretty much there under Buzz, so it's obviously reasonable to think it could happen again.
Just out of curiosity, I checked out Xavier's trajectory under Chris Mack. Remember, they were very good under Sean Miller (15 and 20 in kpom his last 2 years). He left Mack a pretty good team, but nonetheless regressed as Mack made the team his own:
Year Final KPom
2010 18
2011 38
2012 53
2013 78
2014 52
2015 21
Now it seems pretty consistent year to year, but things must have looked pretty dicey around 2013! I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just thought this was different than I remember and interesting. Wojo certainly had a much tougher task. Buzz had a similar situation as Mack and never missed the tournament during his transition, possibly due to his ability to pull in Jucos and stay "old." I'm happy with Wojo but let's acknowledge that Buzz is a hell of a coach.
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Explain why Marquette cant have Villanova type success? What does Villanova have that MU doesn't? I believe MU will eventually be what Nova is. (Gonzaga is not a fair comparison) That doesn't make me a whack job.
Like you, I'm one of the whack jobs.
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Right, but I said I believe MU can eventually have Nova success not that it can have it now.
Sure. Requires long-term consistent coaching/recruiting. And success to go with that. Can happen Villanova way (one coach) or Butler (coaching tree)
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Yes, most people's expectations here are that our program be better than DePaul's. Some (horrors and zounds!!!) dare to have expectations similar to Xavier's. A few total whack jobs see no reason that we can't be what Gonzaga or Villanova is. And many think that being entertaining and making the tournament some of the time is swell. Different strokes. All legit, I guess.
It seems you missed how my point was about how ridiculous it is that DePaul's AD has been allowed to survive for 13 years without a tourney appearance.
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It seems you missed how my point was about how ridiculous it is that DePaul's AD has been allowed to survive for 13 years without a tourney appearance.
I mean, I guess her boss doesn't care? Interesting that I see her name here a lot when people complain about their program but I have no idea who her boss is.
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It seems you missed how my point was about how ridiculous it is that DePaul's AD has been allowed to survive for 13 years without a tourney appearance.
But they have a great women's softball team! Seriously. I have a graduate degree from Depaul and they push the hell out of their non-revenue generating sports success. If Depaul basketball was 5-25 with 500 fans a game, but they had great performance from Womens BB, Softball, and Soccer, JLP would view the year as a resounding success. And I imagine she's gotten her bosses to agree as well.
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Just out of curiosity, I checked out Xavier's trajectory under Chris Mack. Remember, they were very good under Sean Miller (15 and 20 in kpom his last 2 years). He left Mack a pretty good team, but nonetheless regressed as Mack made the team his own:
Year Final KPom
2010 18
2011 38
2012 53
2013 78
2014 52
2015 21
Now it seems pretty consistent year to year, but things must have looked pretty dicey around 2013! I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just thought this was different than I remember and interesting. Wojo certainly had a much tougher task. Buzz had a similar situation as Mack and never missed the tournament during his transition, possibly due to his ability to pull in Jucos and stay "old." I'm happy with Wojo but let's acknowledge that Buzz is a hell of a coach.
They did step up from the A10 to the Big East in that time span. Needed to recalibrate the talent level to be more competitive in the new league.
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But they have a great women's softball team! Seriously. I have a graduate degree from Depaul and they push the hell out of their non-revenue generating sports success. If Depaul basketball was 5-25 with 500 fans a game, but they had great performance from Womens BB, Softball, and Soccer, JLP would view the year as a resounding success. And I imagine she's gotten her bosses to agree as well.
That's really frustrating to hear. They have no business getting that new stadium and being in the BE for any reason other than us to say "even our worst team has legit b-ball history"
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But they have a great women's softball team! Seriously. I have a graduate degree from Depaul and they push the hell out of their non-revenue generating sports success. If Depaul basketball was 5-25 with 500 fans a game, but they had great performance from Womens BB, Softball, and Soccer, JLP would view the year as a resounding success. And I imagine she's gotten her bosses to agree as well.
She should have gone into sales I suppose.
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But they have a great women's softball team! Seriously. I have a graduate degree from Depaul and they push the hell out of their non-revenue generating sports success. If Depaul basketball was 5-25 with 500 fans a game, but they had great performance from Womens BB, Softball, and Soccer, JLP would view the year as a resounding success. And I imagine she's gotten her bosses to agree as well.
I can't believe her bosses are that stupid. Only thing I can figure out is she has pictures or other evidence of wrongdoing by someone at the top. Nothing else makes sense.
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I was actually at the DePaul vs. Providence game last Friday. My dad got free tickets from work and they were nice seats, so we went. The arena is actually really nice.
Anyway, during the game with like a minute left, DePaul pulls within 3 and the arena is going crazy (it wasn't even half filled).Moments later Providence starts to pull away and Strus jacks up a terrible contested shot that barely hit the rim. That was it for DePaul and It just immediately deflated that entire arena. (Except for the large section of Providence fans). Their one moment of happiness was gone so quickly, with just a small moment to savor it.
The guy in front of me turns to his friend and says "we were THIS close.." and his friend replies back, "we've been THIS close for years... I'm sick of being close" After I heard that it just made me sad. We complain about so many things but we have no idea what a terrible program really looks like.
That last DePaul play was where we saw the difference between coaches. All game long Cooley was making the right tactical moves( in between cursing vampires). When it came time for the critical shot, Leitao did nothing to organize the team and of course the result was horrible. Leitao is not a bad coach per se ,and I realize DePaul is hampered with a weak AD, so a coaching change is not in the cards. However, with that impressive facility , and having an urban school in a desirable place like Lincoln Park ,the program could be turned around quickly.
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And even Villanova has had rough stretches. Wright wasn’t all that great when he started in 01-02 and he had this KenPom stretch :
10 - #17
11 - #28
12 - #85
13 - #53
It is really hard to be top level every single year.
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She should have gone into sales I suppose.
Selling Ford Pintos with exploding gas tanks.
You have to have something to sell and the abomination that is DePaul basketball is the Pinto of the Big East. And, sorry Jean, if you ever want to produce any revenue, you will have to make it in Men’s Basketball. You didn’t sign on to the Winny on the South Side for Women’s Lacrosse.
I guess I want DePaul to be good. The rivalry between them and us in the 1980s was a lot of fun.
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Explain why Marquette cant have Villanova type success? What does Villanova have that MU doesn't? I believe MU will eventually be what Nova is. (Gonzaga is not a fair comparison) That doesn't make me a whack job.
welllllllll. GOT HEM?
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I can't believe her bosses are that stupid. Only thing I can figure out is she has pictures or other evidence of wrongdoing by someone at the top. Nothing else makes sense.
Maybe Depaul has decided as an institution that they don't place a high priority on men's basketball success anymore? They just have to do enough to not get kicked out of the Big East to keep the cash flowing. Investing additional resources to get better would be a risk because there's no guarantee it would work or be more profitable? Not saying this is true, just saying there are possible explanations that don't involve the AD being malevolent or stupid.
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Maybe Depaul has decided as an institution that they don't place a high priority on men's basketball success anymore? They just have to do enough to not get kicked out of the Big East to keep the cash flowing. Investing additional resources to get better would be a risk because there's no guarantee it would work or be more profitable? Not saying this is true, just saying there are possible explanations that don't involve the AD being malevolent or stupid.
Maybe. But if they don't care about basketball success and just want to keep cashing checks why are they spending millions on a new arena?
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Maybe. But if they don't care about basketball success and just want to keep cashing checks why are they spending millions on a new arena?
That deal was so bad for DePaul, I am convinced that Rahm Emanuel has dirt on someone....
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Maybe. But if they don't care about basketball success and just want to keep cashing checks why are they spending millions on a new arena?
Because the Big East won't let them keep hammering checks and play in a $hithole
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That deal was so bad for DePaul, I am convinced that Rahm Emanuel has dirt on someone....
Care to elaborate?
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Care to elaborate?
I don't know what the dirt is. The crappy deal has been discussed in length on this board.
They paid for half of the $164 million construction cost and still have to pay rent to use it. They turned down an offer to play in the United Center for free.
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Because the Big East won't let them keep hammering checks and play in a $hithole
Shoulda just played in the opposite of a $hithole: Norway!
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Maybe Depaul has decided as an institution that they don't place a high priority on men's basketball success anymore? They just have to do enough to not get kicked out of the Big East to keep the cash flowing. Investing additional resources to get better would be a risk because there's no guarantee it would work or be more profitable? Not saying this is true, just saying there are possible explanations that don't involve the AD being malevolent or stupid.
But this would be a stupid philosophy. The ROI for college basketball is much better than for college football, especially if you aren't paying the likes of Coach K, Cal, or Pitino's strippers. 13 scholarships, four coaches, a couple trainers, low salary support staff and a jet - bingo, you have a program that can be competitive.
DePaul is spending about a million on Leitao and probably about the same on his staff. Christ, if they just took that money and gave it to Stan they'd be 75% of the way toward where they need to be as a program.
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I don't know what the dirt is. The crappy deal has been discussed in length on this board.
They paid for half of the $164 million construction cost and still have to pay rent to use it. They turned down an offer to play in the United Center for free.
I completely agree with you that the deal , per se , is a bad one. That said ,the location and facility are excellent . If DePaul can field any kind of medium quality team they will have a meaningful home court advantage. They need a young up and coming coach to implement that. With their current coach Depaul needs to pursue some kind of grad transfer / juco/traditional transfer strategy to kick start the program.
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The sad reality is that the DePaul athletic department is entrenched in sycophants and nepotism, overseen and led by one family. There are three Lenti's employed by the athletic department (Jeannie - AD, Eugene - Softball coach, Mike - Associate AD). They hired Leitao because he was a yes man, and would not push back or ruffle the waters - completing disregarding the fact that he left the university for a better job.
The shocking thing is that DePaul's new President came from Seton Hall. At the very least, he should know what a competitive men's basketball program/athletic department looks like.
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The sad reality is that the DePaul athletic department is entrenched in sycophants and nepotism, overseen and led by one family. There are three Lenti's employed by the athletic department (Jeannie - AD, Eugene - Softball coach, Mike - Associate AD). They hired Leitao because he was a yes man, and would not push back or ruffle the waters - completing disregarding the fact that he left the university for a better job.
The shocking thing is that DePaul's new President came from Seton Hall. At the very least, he should know what a competitive men's basketball program/athletic department looks like.
Didn't realize that wow.
Can't believe they don't have any big money donors trying to make a change there.
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I completely agree with you that the deal , per se , is a bad one. That said ,the location and facility are excellent . If DePaul can field any kind of medium quality team they will have a meaningful home court advantage. They need a young up and coming coach to implement that. With their current coach Depaul needs to pursue some kind of grad transfer / juco/traditional transfer strategy to kick start the program.
Agree, stadium probably unnecessary for DePaul but a nice get for the city.
I believe the boys basketball city championship will be played there this year, the "Jesuit Cup" between Loyola and St. Ignatius is going to be there this Friday and there is a possibility that the IHSA moves it's state finals from Peoria to Wintrust in the coming years.
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Agree, stadium probably unnecessary for DePaul but a nice get for the city.
I believe the boys basketball city championship will be played there this year, the "Jesuit Cup" between Loyola and St. Ignatius is going to be there this Friday and there is a possibility that the IHSA moves it's state finals from Peoria to Wintrust in the coming years.
Ihsa would never move there. Downstate and out west would have a heart attack about it being in Chicago heck even 75% of the suburbs would flip out about it
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Ihsa would never move there. Downstate and out west would have a heart attack about it being in Chicago heck even 75% of the suburbs would flip out about it
Out of curiosity, when's the last team from out west to make it downstate?
Obviously you have the one rep usually from Peoria, Normal or Champaign. One or two city schools depending on how they set the sectionals up that given year.
One from up north, usually Waukegan or one of the CSL or MSL schools and then Bolingbrook or OPRF if they don't run into a city school.
Obviously I'm thinking 4A or 3A, but those are the schools with a much bigger budget.
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Didn't realize that wow.
Can't believe they don't have any big money donors trying to make a change there.
There aren't a lot of big money donors who identify with basketball as part of a DePaul legacy. Hell, DePaul is largely a glorified commuter school at this point so from an alumni base there isn't a lot of interest in the sports programs as a part of their legacy. They are seemingly trying to "counter program" for the Chicago area but pushing the non-revenue sports since DePaul basketball is competing with the Bulls, White Sox, Cubs, Notre Dame, et al for entertainment dollars in the Chicago metro area.
I see no reason for DePaul to be competitive in the Big East as long as JPL and Laito are in place.
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Out of curiosity, when's the last team from out west to make it downstate?
Obviously you have the one rep usually from Peoria, Normal or Champaign. One or two city schools depending on how they set the sectionals up that given year.
One from up north, usually Waukegan or one of the CSL or MSL schools and then Bolingbrook or OPRF if they don't run into a city school.
Obviously I'm thinking 4A or 3A, but those are the schools with a much bigger budget.
I'd imagine somebody from Rockford? Can't think of anyone 3A or 4A off the top of my head. Point is that the rest of the state would claim it's a home court advantage and that their kids shouldn't be playing in front of gangs and all the crap that you'd expect from the non city schools.
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There aren't a lot of big money donors who identify with basketball as part of a DePaul legacy. Hell, DePaul is largely a glorified commuter school at this point so from an alumni base there isn't a lot of interest in the sports programs as a part of their legacy. They are seemingly trying to "counter program" for the Chicago area but pushing the non-revenue sports since DePaul basketball is competing with the Bulls, White Sox, Cubs, Notre Dame, et al for entertainment dollars in the Chicago metro area.
I see no reason for DePaul to be competitive in the Big East as long as JPL and Laito are in place.
Chicago is such a big market, it does it does not take much improvement to move the meter for DePaul. That said, as you point out, with the current management structure it will be difficult to get that movement. DePaul will likely give Leitao at least two more years in the new arena.
I am really surprised DePaul has not gone down the track that Georgetown did with scheduling almost entire cupcake schedule . I think for DePaul to gain traction they need to somehow get to the 6 win mark in the Big East, a tall mountain for sure. If they could pair that with 10 or 11 non conference wins, they might be able to post a couple winning records and gain some momentum.
Of course that said on any given night they can win. So we , and others, have to beware when we play them.
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Depaul has been in the BE for 13 years.
Their best record was in 2005-2006 when they went 9-7 for 8th place in BE
In the other years, their best seasons were 2007-2008 and 2014-2015, when they went 6-12.
This year they are 1-5 and no hope of reaching 6 wins.
That is just a terrible, terrible record.
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I'm kinda surprised Tom Kleinschmidt hasn't been asked or thrown his hat into the ring.
He's a great coach that's done a tremendous job at York and DePaul Prep (Gordon Tech). Plus he's DePaul royalty.
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Out of curiosity, when's the last team from out west to make it downstate?
Obviously you have the one rep usually from Peoria, Normal or Champaign. One or two city schools depending on how they set the sectionals up that given year.
One from up north, usually Waukegan or one of the CSL or MSL schools and then Bolingbrook or OPRF if they don't run into a city school.
Obviously I'm thinking 4A or 3A, but those are the schools with a much bigger budget.
Rock Island had some good teams with Randle.
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I'm kinda surprised Tom Kleinschmidt hasn't been asked or thrown his hat into the ring.
He's a great coach that's done a tremendous job at York and DePaul Prep (Gordon Tech). Plus he's DePaul royalty.
He has gotten better recruiting at DePaul Prep than DePaul University has done in the past four years.
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I'm kinda surprised Tom Kleinschmidt hasn't been asked or thrown his hat into the ring.
He's a great coach that's done a tremendous job at York and DePaul Prep (Gordon Tech). Plus he's DePaul royalty.
Yeah, you'd think it would be his pick if he wanted it.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YwJDTsAcR0k/hqdefault.jpg)
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The IHSA will never allow the state tournament to be in Chicago. Guaranteed. There are too many political forces to prevent that from ever happening. Non-Chicago area high schools hate the Chicago programs. They think they are overrated and get too much publicity (in comparison to other state programs). Heck, there was a huge political backlash after the state playoffs went to Peoria (from Champaign).
Peoria is at least centrally located in the state, allowing for people from all over to get to it (even though Chicago would be a guaranteed sell out every year).
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Rock Island had some good teams with Randle.
They won 3A in 2011
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The IHSA will never allow the state tournament to be in Chicago. Guaranteed. There are too many political forces to prevent that from ever happening. Non-Chicago area high schools hate the Chicago programs. They think they are overrated and get too much publicity (in comparison to other state programs). Heck, there was a huge political backlash after the state playoffs went to Peoria (from Champaign).
Peoria is at least centrally located in the state, allowing for people from all over to get to it (even though Chicago would be a guaranteed sell out every year).
I think that's the big issue. Attendance has been so bad the past few years, which is why I partially think they went back to only having one Chicago team downstate.
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I'm kinda surprised Tom Kleinschmidt hasn't been asked or thrown his hat into the ring.
He's a great coach that's done a tremendous job at York and DePaul Prep (Gordon Tech). Plus he's DePaul royalty.
Hiring a high school coach to be the head coach of a P6 program doesn't seem like a good idea.
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Hiring a high school coach to be the head coach of a P6 program doesn't seem like a good idea.
As someone else has stated, he already recruits.
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As someone else has stated, he already recruits.
Recruiting isn't really my concern. Size of the job. Breadth of the responsibilities. Compliance.
If Illinois-Chicago were looking for a new coach, he might be someone to look at. But DePaul?
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Recruiting isn't really my concern. Size of the job. Breadth of the responsibilities. Compliance.
If Illinois-Chicago were looking for a new coach, he might be someone to look at. But DePaul?
Not sure that DePaul has anywhere but up to go. They need to look in non-traditional directions. If they can capture a couple of players a year out of the Chicago Public league they might be able to capture lightening in a bottle. Most programs like MU are looking to go national in recruiting, if I was DePaul I'd go the other direction. Only way to hope to differentiate.
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What DePaul needs to do is fix their entire athletic department. Nothing is going to change until they get rid of their AD and hire an up and comer with some ideas. Who can then attract the likes of a Bryce Drew or a Bobby Hurley, instead of having them look at the program and run in the other direction. Hiring a high school coach may provide a short-term fix, but it's going to do nothing to actually fix what is wrong.
To put it another way, the Packers weren't going to get better by simply replacing Lindy Infante, it required Bob Harlan to hire Ron Wolf and reimage the entire franchise.
Nothing short of that will fix DePaul. It is fundamentally broken.
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I listened to the Big East Coast Pod this morning and they had a guy on from the DePaul student radio station. He said that it feels like DePaul just keeps hiring the same guy. Wainright, Purnell, even Leitao were all retreads that had some success elsewhere, but never really broke through. Also pointed out that all three of their last hires were guys in their 50s when they got there, so there's none of the young and hungry type fire.
He mentioned how he thought Tyger Campbell was a bit of a make-or-break recruit for Leitao, that if they can reaffirm that commitment, Leitao will get at least 2-3 years with Campbell to turn it around, but if not, they may make a move sooner rather than later. Not sure I believe that simply because it's DePaul, but he also pointed out how they missed on Bryce Drew and Bobby Hurley, both of whom are making big impacts at their new schools. Said he'd even be happy with an assistant type after watching Chris Collins (Jon Scheyer was mentioned as an Illinois native).
I have to say, I don't mind DePaul continuing to suck because in any league, someone has to lose and I'm glad it's not us, but it has to be really hard to cheer for that team. This will likely be their 11th straight season with 12+ conference losses, and the 14th straight without a NCAA bid. I have to imagine if that happened here, Scoop would be a ghost town by then.
If someone sucks in our league I'd rather it be someone located further away from MU. Maybe I'm biased since I live in Chicago, but If DePaul was decent it would make our road games against them more exciting. Would love to see a packed Wintrust arena (with MU fans of course).
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If someone sucks in our league I'd rather it be someone located further away from MU. Maybe I'm biased since I live in Chicago, but If DePaul was decent it would make our road games against them more exciting. Would love to see a packed Wintrust arena (with MU fans of course).
I get it from a local perspective, but for the moment, it's one less nearby high-major to contend with for recruiting. I also like the homecourt swing in that we can generate a good crowd there while they don't do the same here (unlike say UW-Madison often does).
The traditionalists will argue we need Georgetown, St. John's, & Nova as top-tier programs. Those supporting the new league probably like seeing Xavier, Butler, & Creighton succeed to validate their inclusion. I'd say Providence, Seton Hall, & DePaul are the ones that no one outside their own fans are really all that vested in. Any of them can suck and no one outside their own fans care.
I do wish we recruited Chicago a bit more, or that we had the desire to (I get it, that city is a snakepit when it comes to recruiting) because it would be nice to travel down, visit our targets, & let them see us pound on the home team. That would be one more edge to a crappy DePaul. As is, they are just one of the "someone has to lose" crowd and as long as it isn't us, I'm cool with it.
At least you (generally) get to see Marquette wins when you head to their building; 4-1 down there the past 6 years.
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Hiring a high school coach to be the head coach of a P6 program doesn't seem like a good idea.
If Depaul hired Simeon's coach this past go round they'd already be top third of the big east. It's hard for people outside of Chicago to really understand just how good of a program that is.
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If Depaul hired Simeon's coach this past go round they'd already be top third of the big east. It's hard for people outside of Chicago to really understand just how good of a program that is.
Color me skeptical. I don't think any high school coach, and frankly I'm not sure any coach period would have DePaul in year three after that trash fire Purnell left behind on par with Jay Wright, Chris Mack, and Kevin Willard, and also ahead of Wojo, Cooley, and McDermott.
If he was that good, he'd have a college job by now.
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Color me skeptical. I don't think any high school coach, and frankly I'm not sure any coach period would have DePaul in year three after that trash fire Purnell left behind on par with Jay Wright, Chris Mack, and Kevin Willard, and also ahead of Wojo, Cooley, and McDermott.
If he was that good, he'd have a college job by now.
Unless they're scared to move from Chicago and have a huge ego that makes him believe he could go straight to a big time job. That narrows it to 1 job in Chicago, arguable for two with NW
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East St. Louis
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If Depaul hired Simeon's coach this past go round they'd already be top third of the big east. It's hard for people outside of Chicago to really understand just how good of a program that is.
Very doubtful. Making too many assumptions that he’d be able to attract local talent and be able to coach it up.
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Color me skeptical. I don't think any high school coach, and frankly I'm not sure any coach period would have DePaul in year three after that trash fire Purnell left behind on par with Jay Wright, Chris Mack, and Kevin Willard, and also ahead of Wojo, Cooley, and McDermott.
If he was that good, he'd have a college job by now.
+1
Two words - Jerry Faust. And he was a HS legend - way bigger than whoever the guy at Simeon is. Why would the best HS players in Chicago stay to plat for an unproven coach at a dumpster fire program instead of going to play for Self, K or Cal?
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+1
Two words - Jerry Faust. And he was a HS legend - way bigger than whoever the guy at Simeon is. Why would the best HS players in Chicago stay to plat for an unproven coach at a dumpster fire program instead of going to play for Self, K or Cal?
Football is little bit different.
6 state titles, players such as Jabari Parker and Derrick Rose came through his program (plus god knows how many other top 100 players)
Record of 357-59 in one of the hardest HS leagues in the country. Not to mention he'd also have the inside track to non Simeon Chicago players from say Young, Currie and Morgan Park amongst others. Hed have Depaul on the map again in no time.
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Football is little bit different.
6 state titles, players such as Jabari Parker and Derrick Rose came through his program (plus god knows how many other top 100 players)
Record of 357-59 in one of the hardest HS leagues in the country. Not to mention he'd also have the inside track to non Simeon Chicago players from say Young, Currie and Morgan Park amongst others. Hed have Depaul on the map again in no time
You are way over estimating the ability of a high school coach to step up a level.
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6 state titles, players such as Jabari Parker and Derrick Rose came through his program (plus god knows how many other top 100 players)
Record of 357-59 in one of the hardest HS leagues in the country. Not to mention he'd also have the inside track to non Simeon Chicago players from say Young, Currie and Morgan Park amongst others. Hed have Depaul on the map again in no time.
I don't buy it for a second. DePaul already tried going this route by hiring Shane Heirman. Suddenly there was going to be a flood of LaLumiere talent headed to Chicago. Obviously Brian Bowen was a whole crazy situation, but he didn't end up there. Tyger Campbell did for about 5 minutes before his decommit. Have any other LaLu talents sniffed around DePaul because of Heirman?
Why would Simeon's top players automatically follow him. Would the next Derrick Rose have gone there instead of playing for Cal who has been recruiting at the highest levels for decades? Would the next Jabari Parker have stayed local instead of going to K and Duke, the biggest program of any of these kids lifetimes?
If Smith was serious about college coaching, he would go after an assistant role. I'm sorry, but you aren't going from high school to a Division 1 head coaching job in a top-3 league in the country. It's not happening and it shouldn't happen. If he wants to prove he can recruit and coach, then try to be the next Isaac Chew, Stan Johnson, Kurtis Townsend, or whatever other recruiting specialist you can imagine.
Smith has been at Simeon what, 13-14 years now? He's in his late 40s. If he really wanted to make that move, it would've happened by now, and if he thinks he's stepping into a job as big as the DePaul HC gig then he is quite simply a delusional moron who has no business in college coaching. The collegiate unemployment lines are littered with great high school coaches. If you want to prove you won't be one of them, then step up and prove you have the chops. Thus far, Smith has done nothing to convince anyone he could or would even try to do that.
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My favorite 'Scoop meme has become Bagpipe's "You don't understand Chicago"
Today's installment: "HS coaching prowess"
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My favorite 'Scoop meme has become Bagpipe's "You don't understand Chicago"
Today's installment: "HS coaching prowess"
I hope it makes scoop takes some day
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In the last several decades, has there been a HS coach who has made the jump straight to a major D1 program? If so, has he succeeded? (Success measured by multiple NCAA bids.)
On a kinda-related note ...
I am convinced that the coach of the girls HS team for which I am an assistant would be a HUGE success as a women's college coach. He is young, energetic, organized, runs incredible practices, has outstanding people skills, and is a very good game coach. In a very short time, he has built one of the best programs in all of NC; I am honored to be just a very small part of it.
I actually discussed this with him a few weeks back. His response was that he loves coaching HS ball, his wife is a teacher at the school, he just had a new baby, and he has absolutely no interest in recruiting and the pressure (and BS) that goes with it.
I wonder how many other potentially fine college coaches in all sports, but specifically basketball, have a similar viewpoint.
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In the last several decades, has there been a HS coach who has made the jump straight to a major D1 program? If so, has he succeeded? (Success measured by multiple NCAA bids.)
John Thompson, if you're willing to go back forty years.
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Have any other LaLu talents sniffed around DePaul because of Heirman?
Marin Maric and Jalen Coleman Lands transferred in from NIU and Illinois since Heirman hire. Both were LaLumiere I believe.
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Have any other LaLu talents sniffed around DePaul because of Heirman?
Marin Maric and Jalen Coleman Lands transferred in from NIU and Illinois since Heirman hire. Both were LaLumiere I believe.
Nice calls. That is the route Smith would have to go if he wants to break into D1. These days, you don't just walk from a HS into the upper echelon of D1 ranks. And I know, DePaul has been a trash program, but it's still in a top-3 league in the country and in a top-3 media market. Whatever failings they may have because of JLP and her ilk, that's still a fairly big job in the grand D1 scheme of things.
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John Thompson, if you're willing to go back forty years.
Wasn't Lute Olson a high school coach in Minnesota?
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Dick Versace was a successful high school coach in Chicago. He coached Gordon Tech. He then went to D1 as an assistant at SLU and Michigan State . He eventually became Head Coach at Bradley when they were a top 10 team with Hersey Hawkins. and then on to the NBA as a Head coach ., President and GM .
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140114/north-center/ex-nba-coach-gm-dick-versace-returns-roots-at-gordon-tech
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Of the three guys mentioned (Thompson, Olson and Versace), only Thompson went from HS head coach to D1 head coach.
Olson transitioned by coaching at Long Beach City College for four seasons. As Herman said above, Versace was an assistant first.
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Have any other LaLu talents sniffed around DePaul because of Heirman?
Marin Maric and Jalen Coleman Lands transferred in from NIU and Illinois since Heirman hire. Both were LaLumiere I believe.
Wasn't aware of Coleman Lands. Looks like that kid can shoot it a bit.
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I don't know what the dirt is. The crappy deal has been discussed in length on this board.
They paid for half of the $164 million construction cost and still have to pay rent to use it. They turned down an offer to play in the United Center for free.
LOL I didn't know it was THAT bad. Hilarious!
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I actually think Smith from Simeon isn't even that good of a coach. With all the players he's had over the years you would think Simeon shouldn't not have lost a game in the state of Illinois. There are much better pure coaches around the state than Robert Smith.
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Of the three guys mentioned (Thompson, Olson and Versace), only Thompson went from HS head coach to D1 head coach.
Olson transitioned by coaching at Long Beach City College for four seasons. As Herman said above, Versace was an assistant first.
Bob Wade at Maryland was a complete disaster post Lefty. He went right from high school to the head coach job.
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On a kinda-related note ...
I am convinced that the coach of the girls HS team for which I am an assistant would be a HUGE success as a women's college coach. He is young, energetic, organized, runs incredible practices, has outstanding people skills, and is a very good game coach. In a very short time, he has built one of the best programs in all of NC; I am honored to be just a very small part of it.
I actually discussed this with him a few weeks back. His response was that he loves coaching HS ball, his wife is a teacher at the school, he just had a new baby, and he has absolutely no interest in recruiting and the pressure (and BS) that goes with it.
I wonder how many other potentially fine college coaches in all sports, but specifically basketball, have a similar viewpoint.
With all due respect (and I mean that), HUGE success at one level of athletics (playing or coaching) doesn't necessarily follow as one moves up the competitive ladder. Grade school to high school, high school to college, college to the NBA or WNBA...all are major leaps and only a handful succeed. There are occasionally instances of coaches who choose staying where they are on the ladder rather than moving up but the vast majority of the time the choice is made for them. Peter principle and all. Along the same lines, how many journalists choose to stay in Topeka despite interest from the NYT or WSJ?
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With all due respect (and I mean that), HUGE success at one level of athletics (playing or coaching) doesn't necessarily follow as one moves up the competitive ladder. Grade school to high school, high school to college, college to the NBA or WNBA...all are major leaps and only a handful succeed. There are occasionally instances of coaches who choose staying where they are on the ladder rather than moving up but the vast majority of the time the choice is made for them. Peter principle and all. Along the same lines, how many journalists choose to stay in Topeka despite interest from the NYT or WSJ?
Can't argue with any of that, Lenny. Still ...
Y'all know me pretty well and know that I am not big into hyperbole. If I didn't think my guy could cut it, I wouldn't have said that. It's like with Sam - I don't go runnin' around Scoop saying this guy will be a pro or that guy will be a pro; indeed, I'm more likely to be skeptical. But I think Sam will play in the NBA, so I said it.
Realistically, no matter how good our HS program is, my coach probably would have to start at either a very low level (D3 or juco) as a college head coach or would have to be a D2/D1 assistant - or both. I do think he has what it takes to eventually be a huge success at the D1 level. He simply might not want to have to "pay his dues" - work several years as more of a college grunt just to get the chance.
I hope he gives himself a chance. I really think he is a great coach. I told my wife just last week, "This is a great learning experience for me, and one of the truly humbling things I've learned is that I'll never be as good a head coach as Jeff is."
A guy named John Gagliardi is the winningest college football coach ever. He coached at tiny St. John's near St. Cloud, MN. He had opportunities to go to D1 but he simply liked where he was. Now, the money for D1 football coaches wasn't what it is now, so maybe he'd have to take the job now for financial reasons if nothing else.
As for the hypothetical you asked about newspaper hacks ... I actually do know a few who wouldn't go to New York even if they thought it would have advanced their careers because they were family guys who wanted nothing to do with NY - period. Those people weren't offered by the NYT or WSJ, though.
All in all, I understand your point.
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I'm kinda surprised Tom Kleinschmidt hasn't been asked or thrown his hat into the ring.
He's a great coach that's done a tremendous job at York and DePaul Prep (Gordon Tech). Plus he's DePaul royalty.
Or his nose pickin's, aina?
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The fact that this thread has moved into a discussion of whether or not a HS coach could make the jump to DePaul says all that needs to be said about the truly desparate state that the DePaul program is in.
It going to continue that way because a quality up and coming coach (who values their career) isn't going to work for Lenti-Ponsetto. Speaking of L-P, she recently got reupped at DePaul, so the prognosis isn't good.
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Wintrust Arena and Depaul are becoming a semi home game for Butler similar to the way it is for MU. They attracted 6802 for their game with a large contingent from Butler ( versus 6713 last year). Will be interesting to see how we draw, Our posted attendance last year was 8392.
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2018/01/20/who-owns-chicago-bears-cubs-neither-its-dawgs/1049273001/
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The fact that this thread has moved into a discussion of whether or not a HS coach could make the jump to DePaul says all that needs to be said about the truly desparate state that the DePaul program is in.
It going to continue that way because a quality up and coming coach (who values their career) isn't going to work for Lenti-Ponsetto. Speaking of L-P, she recently got reupped at DePaul, so the prognosis isn't good.
Where was that reported? I haven't heard that.
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I actually think Smith from Simeon isn't even that good of a coach. With all the players he's had over the years you would think Simeon shouldn't not have lost a game in the state of Illinois. There are much better pure coaches around the state than Robert Smith.
Hey, if losing is the disease, Robert Smith is the cure.
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Where was that reported? I haven't heard that.
I remember seeing something along the lines that Father Holtshnieder - before he left - made sure that she was locked in for a number of years. I also kinda remember that she traded salary increases for iron clad security. I very clearly remember not being happy with the news.
Can't find anything about it now on google, but there are a lot of articles about her last contract that was to run through the 2016-17 year.... Interesting to see the lack of exposure about whatever agreement she's operating under now.
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Hey, if losing is the disease, Robert Smith is the cure.
Was that an intentional Cure pun?? if so, amazing
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Was that an intentional Cure pun?? if so, amazing
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