MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on October 12, 2017, 04:28:38 PM
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Calipari: Federal probe is 'black eye' for sport
Jeff Borzello
ESPN Staff Writer
October 12, 2017 3:10 PM CT
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21002969/kentucky-wildcats-coach-john-calipari-unhappy-black-eye-college-basketball
Kentucky coach John Calipari called the current college basketball scandal a "black eye" at the Wildcats' media day on Thursday.
"What's out there right now is a black eye," Calipari said. "None of us know where this thing's going. I don't know where all this is going. Obviously what happened to this point isn't good."
Since news of an FBI investigation into corruption in college basketball broke on Sept. 26, 10 people have been arrested, including four assistant coaches. Louisville head coach Rick Pitino was placed on unpaid administrative leave.
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Irony abounds.
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Irony abounds.
I'm tickled.
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His defensive response complete with deflecting non-answer was a bit surprising. Thought he'd be more composed and prepared.
https://twitter.com/claystv1/status/918528853081026562
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His defensive response complete with deflecting non-answer was a bit surprising. Thought he'd be more composed and prepared.
https://twitter.com/claystv1/status/918528853081026562
I don't think John has been sleeping very well lately...
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/liAxnRq5qeZPy/giphy.gif)
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/jk8UJxw0XFgo8/giphy.gif)
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But you gotta admit that Cal knows a lot about doing stuff to give the sport a black eye...
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I'd be surprised if Cal is cheating at UK. He gets to hand select his recruits. He and K more or less take orders. And look at his kids at UK. Most are really good kids. A hot head like Cousins is the exception. To quote John Wall: I've been poor all my life, what's 8 more months.
The guys Cal's (and K) recruiting know that payday is coming and quick. They don't need to owe anyone anything.
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I'd be surprised if Cal is cheating at UK. He gets to hand select his recruits. He and K more or less take orders. And look at his kids at UK. Most are really good kids. A hot head like Cousins is the exception. To quote John Wall: I've been poor all my life, what's 8 more months.
The guys Cal's (and K) recruiting know that payday is coming and quick. They don't need to owe anyone anything.
It wasn't like Billy Gillespie was getting those recruits at Kentucky. There was an article in a Chicago paper about Anthony Davis getting $250K. He may be clean, but there's too much smoke around him in my opinion.
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It wasn't like Billy Gillespie was getting those recruits at Kentucky. There was an article in a Chicago paper about Anthony Davis getting $250K. He may be clean, but there's too much smoke around him in my opinion.
Billy G is a drunk. And on his best day he's a really sales manager. Whereas Cal is a CEO. It's like Nick Saban vs. the rest of the SEC. CEO vs. Sales Managers.
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Cal no doubt cheat$.
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Billy G is a drunk. And on his best day he's a really sales manager. Whereas Cal is a CEO. It's like Nick Saban vs. the rest of the SEC. CEO vs. Sales Managers.
I would say that it is not unthinkable that Cals players are getting money. My guess though is he has more layers in between him and the dirty work vs a guy like Pitino. He is not some sort of bball savant or playing 'different game than everyone else'. That is silly.
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i'd love to hear what roy thinks of all this ::)
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I'd be surprised if Cal is cheating at UK. He gets to hand select his recruits. He and K more or less take orders. And look at his kids at UK. Most are really good kids. A hot head like Cousins is the exception. To quote John Wall: I've been poor all my life, what's 8 more months.
The guys Cal's (and K) recruiting know that payday is coming and quick. They don't need to owe anyone anything.
This is correct for anything Cal did to get to the top, once one gets there and has his track record with one and dones is all he needs to show these kids. Contend for titles, one n dones and incredible facilities. No need to cheat. Its like usain bolt decding to take steroids.
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i'd love to hear what roy thinks of all this ::)
Ol' Roy, aka Deputy Dawg, BSed his way through UNC's academic scandal - I'm sure he'd do the same on pay for play unless they have him on tape.
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This is correct for anything Cal did to get to the top, once one gets there and has his track record with one and dones is all he needs to show these kids. Contend for titles, one n dones and incredible facilities. No need to cheat. Its like usain bolt decding to take steroids.
Barry Bonds had no need to cheat; neither did Lance Armstrong; neither did Bernie Madoff. People at the top often cheat in order to stay at the top; see Pitino, Rick.
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Barry Bonds had no need to cheat; neither did Lance Armstrong; neither did Bernie Madoff. People at the top often cheat in order to stay at the top; see Pitino, Rick.
??? In order to be great, Bonds didn't need to cheat. In order to be an all time great (arguably the greatest of all time) he most certainly did. All the top tier cyclists cheat, so in order to be the greatest of all time in his sport instead of a "guy" Armstrong had to cheat. Bernie Madoff ran a Ponzi scheme, he was a cheater from the beginning.
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??? In order to be great, Bonds didn't need to cheat. In order to be an all time great (arguably the greatest of all time) he most certainly did. All the top tier cyclists cheat, so in order to be the greatest of all time in his sport instead of a "guy" Armstrong had to cheat. Bernie Madoff ran a Ponzi scheme, he was a cheater from the beginning.
+3
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??? In order to be great, Bonds didn't need to cheat. In order to be an all time great (arguably the greatest of all time) he most certainly did. All the top tier cyclists cheat, so in order to be the greatest of all time in his sport instead of a "guy" Armstrong had to cheat. Bernie Madoff ran a Ponzi scheme, he was a cheater from the beginning.
Barry Bonds won 3 MVPs and had another runner up before he started taking steroids...
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Barry Bonds won 3 MVPs and had another runner up before he started taking steroids...
he wanted more, he wanted to stay on top, he wanted to make the record his and he wanted to make it untouchable...at what price is one willing to pay?
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It wasn't like Billy Gillespie was getting those recruits at Kentucky. There was an article in a Chicago paper about Anthony Davis getting $250K. He may be clean, but there's too much smoke around him in my opinion.
Fearless prediction: If Nike is involved in buying players, the FBI will probably track it down. If Kentucky boosters are involved, no one will find a thing.
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Barry Bonds won 3 MVPs and had another runner up before he started taking steroids...
What's your point? I said he was great in his 14 years before he hit the juice.
But between the ages of 35-39 (when most guys are out of the game or at least well past their prime) he was unworldly, the greatest of all time. 4 MVPs and a runner up in those 5 years and BY FAR the best numbers of his career.
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Barry Bonds won 3 MVPs and had another runner up before he started taking steroids...
Yep.
From 1990-98, Bonds averaged 36-110 with a 1.038 OPS. He was a 3-time MVP with 4 other top-5 MVP finishes during that span. He averaged 36 SB. He also was one of the best defensive outfielders of his time.
If he retired after the 1998 season, he would have been a first-ballot HoFer. If he had another 3-5 similar years he would have been remembered as one of the greatest all-around players ever.
Instead, he got jealous of the attention Sosa and McGwire received and started using his butt as a pincushion. He got the HR record and a lot of $$$, but he will always be remembered as a whiny, self-important, juicing d-bag.
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What's your point? I said he was great in his 14 years before he hit the juice.
But between the ages of 35-39 (when most guys are out of the game or at least well past their prime) he was unworldly, the greatest of all time. 4 MVPs and a runner up in those 5 years and BY FAR the best numbers of his career.
...right. That's the exact argument you tried to argue against. Barry Bonds didn't need to cheat, but people at the top cheat to ensure they stay at the top. Barry was already at the top.
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Barry Bonds won 3 MVPs and had another runner up before he started taking steroids...
Do we honestly know when he started juicing? We know he started taking some crazy designer steroids in the late 90's, but that doesn't mean he wasn't using other stuff before then.
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FWIW, I've always been told that Cal is one of the few that doesn't break the rule$. But he does bend them until they are about ready to snap.
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Don't be naive......
10 of the Top 30 players in the last recruiting class.....
UK is cheating.....
The question is the apparatus.....Probably a very well oiled organization.....Especially after the Chicago Tribune / Anthony Davis debacle.....
Shoot....All the FBI has to do is subpoena those files from the Tribune.....(probably protected by freedom of the press)....Remind you....Tribune said $250k to Davis in various ways.....
What is the statute of limitations on Fed wire and mail fraud.....Got to be 10 years.....(Yes Kentucky and Illinois meet the across state lines part of that law....and if funds were transferred.....done deal)
Catching the little bastard is harder said that done.....
KU is professional about it.....They probably have friends of the program taking care of these matters and only reporting to coaches and assistant coaches on a "from time to time basis" and given "direction of funding importance" etc....etc....
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Do we honestly know when he started juicing? We know he started taking some crazy designer steroids in the late 90's, but that doesn't mean he wasn't using other stuff before then.
Most players throughout the history of baseball are not 100% clean. Tons of uppers got used... cocaine, greenies, etc.
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This is correct for anything Cal did to get to the top, once one gets there and has his track record with one and dones is all he needs to show these kids. Contend for titles, one n dones and incredible facilities. No need to cheat. Its like usain bolt decding to take steroids.
Usain Bolt - Clean.... that's funny now.
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Don't be naive......
10 of the Top 30 players in the last recruiting class.....
KU is cheating.....
The question is the apparatus.....Probably a very well oiled organization.....Especially after the Chicago Tribune / Anthony Davis debacle.....
Shoot....All the FBI has to do is subpoena those files from the Tribune.....(probably protected by freedom of the press)....Remind you....Tribune said $250k to Davis in various ways.....
What is the statute of limitations on Fed wire and mail fraud.....Got to be 10 years.....(Yes Kentucky and Illinois meet the across state lines part of that law....and if funds were transferred.....done deal)
Catching the little bastard is harder said that done.....
KU is professional about it.....They probably have friends of the program taking care of these matters and only reporting to coaches and assistant coaches on a "from time to time basis" and given "direction of funding importance" etc....etc....
Anthony Davis played bball at UK, not KU.
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Do we honestly know when he started juicing? We know he started taking some crazy designer steroids in the late 90's, but that doesn't mean he wasn't using other stuff before then.
He was probably juicing through the 90's with the rest of them.
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Do we honestly know when he started juicing? We know he started taking some crazy designer steroids in the late 90's, but that doesn't mean he wasn't using other stuff before then.
I believe that the book Game of Shadows, which most consider the ultimate reporting on the subject, said his juicing began between the 1998 and 1999 seasons. Didn't read the book, just excerpts, and read them long ago. So don't hold me to it.
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Usain Bolt - Clean.... that's funny now.
No basis for this. Never accused of PEDs.
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No basis for this. Never accused of PEDs.
So we can insinuate Self cheats ( next domino to fall) but not Bolt? Check out the recent history of the Jamaican track team, his training partners, or his old coach, Angel "memo" Heredia. Everyone thought Armstrong was clean " no way he takes roids because he had cancer" til he wasn't. No way Bolt has always been clean - research his history and who he was connected with. He's being insulated by track and field right now because he's too important to them to fail.
https://medium.com/@tomnew/usain-bolt-lance-armstrong-and-the-duck-test-303b7b891e7e
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Cal has had TWO Final 4s vacated. Why are we so sure he's clean again?
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I think the best scenario to come out of all of this would be for Harvey Weinstein and Rick Pitino bunking up together at Club Fed.
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Cal has had TWO Final 4s vacated. Why are we so sure he's clean again?
Right? Lol.
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Cal has had TWO Final 4s vacated. Why are we so sure he's clean again?
Marcus Camby (accepted gifts from agents) has repeatedly taken the fall for UMASS, assumed 100% of the blame, paid back the school the $151,000 they lost and consistently said Cal had no idea. Why would he do that if Cal orchestrated it?
Memphis I will grant you is a little murkier.
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...right. That's the exact argument you tried to argue against. Barry Bonds didn't need to cheat, but people at the top cheat to ensure they stay at the top. Barry was already at the top.
But he wasn't "at the top". McGwire and Sosa had temporarily stolen his thunder. And (much more importantly) from a career standpoint he was not destined to join Ruth, Williams, Mays and Aaron on baseball's Mt. Rushmore - until suddenly between the ages of 35 and 39 he became the best hitter in history and eclipsed all of them. He most definitely needed to cheat to do that.
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But he wasn't "at the top". McGwire and Sosa had temporarily stolen his thunder. And (much more importantly) from a career standpoint he was not destined to join Ruth, Williams, Mays and Aaron on baseball's Mt. Rushmore - until suddenly between the ages of 35 and 39 he became the best hitter in history and eclipsed all of them. He most definitely needed to cheat to do that.
He would've gone down as one of the greatest players to ever play the game before his head size grew 10 fold. He was absolutely at the top, and he needed to cheat to stay at the top because McGuire and (cover your ears, BMG, I know you hate hearing about Cubbies cheating) Sosa caught up to him with the use of steroids. So, as was stated, Bonds was at the top and cheated to stay there.
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love it when cub fans boooo ryan braun. they either have really really bad memories, or it's just cub fans being...umm...cub fans. at least ryans head didn't need a new helmet, 8 sizes larger than when he joined the team ::)
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love it when cub fans boooo ryan braun. they either have really really bad memories, or it's just cub fans being...umm...cub fans. at least ryans head didn't need a new helmet, 8 sizes larger than when he joined the team ::)
I mean, besides the whole roids thing he does kinda seem like a d!ck of a person.
But back to Cal, I don't know if he's clean or not but I definitely don't think he's one of the dirtier coaches in the NCAA.
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He was probably juicing through the 90's with the rest of them.
I agree, I don't think there were many who were not juicing in the 90's. Essentially the entire league was on something. The question was how much, how often, and did you have access to the crazy experimental designer steroids.
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He would've gone down as one of the greatest players to ever play the game before his head size grew 10 fold. He was absolutely at the top.
Just not true. At age 35 (when normal careers were waning or ended) Bonds had 15 seasons under his belt. He was a .288 lifetime hitter with 445 HRs (29.67 per season). He had led the league in BA zero times, HRs once, SLG% 3x, OPS 5x and OPS+ 4x. A star, no doubt. A HOF, no doubt. An all time great (ala Mays, Williams or Ruth)? No way, not even all that close. After 35 (and after those really, really good designer 'roids), wow!!! From 35-39 (old man years) he bats .339 and AVERAGES 51.6 HR per year. Wins the only 2 batting titles of his career, leads the league in SLG% 4x, OPS 4x and OPS+ all 5 years. And a great career that was a little better than Duke Snider's was suddenly paralleling (or better than) Babe Ruth's. That's the top, and without the steroids he wouldn't have been close to there.
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Just not true. At age 35 (when normal careers were waning or ended) Bonds had 15 seasons under his belt. He was a .288 lifetime hitter with 445 HRs (29.67 per season). He had led the league in BA zero times, HRs once, SLG% 3x, OPS 5x and OPS+ 4x. A star, no doubt. A HOF, no doubt. An all time great (ala Mays, Williams or Ruth)? No way, not even all that close. After 35 (and after those really, really good designer 'roids), wow!!! From 35-39 (old man years) he bats .339 and AVERAGES 51.6 HR per year. Wins the only 2 batting titles of his career, leads the league in SLG% 4x, OPS 4x and OPS+ all 5 years. And a great career that was a little better than Duke Snider's was suddenly paralleling (or better than) Babe Ruth's. That's the top, and without the steroids he wouldn't have been close to there.
All the steroids years stats are tainted. Rafael Palmeiro was another notable player who had a very good career turner great after the usual physical age for decline.
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Isn't Ken Griffey Jr one of the 90s greats that never juiced?
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Just not true. At age 35 (when normal careers were waning or ended) Bonds had 15 seasons under his belt. He was a .288 lifetime hitter with 445 HRs (29.67 per season). He had led the league in BA zero times, HRs once, SLG% 3x, OPS 5x and OPS+ 4x. A star, no doubt. A HOF, no doubt. An all time great (ala Mays, Williams or Ruth)? No way, not even all that close. After 35 (and after those really, really good designer 'roids), wow!!! From 35-39 (old man years) he bats .339 and AVERAGES 51.6 HR per year. Wins the only 2 batting titles of his career, leads the league in SLG% 4x, OPS 4x and OPS+ all 5 years. And a great career that was a little better than Duke Snider's was suddenly paralleling (or better than) Babe Ruth's. That's the top, and without the steroids he wouldn't have been close to there.
That's really pretty amazing.
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Isn't Ken Griffey Jr one of the 90s greats that never juiced?
Yes that is correct . That is why he had the normal ordinary skills decline that all non juiced stars have and started to get fat etc.
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That's really pretty amazing.
It is.
Also amazing: McGwire hit 245 of his 583 career HRs - 42% - during the 4-season stretch (1996-99) when he admittedly juiced like nobody's business.
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love it when cub fans boooo ryan braun. they either have really really bad memories, or it's just cub fans being...umm...cub fans. at least ryans head didn't need a new helmet, 8 sizes larger than when he joined the team ::)
My favorite is Sosa's suspension for using a corked bat. Exposed during a 2003 game after a broken bat. "What can you say?" manager Dusty Baker said later. "Busted." Even funnier is that research suggests there is no advantage to corking a bat to improve home run power.
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My favorite is Sosa's suspension for using a corked bat. Exposed during a 2003 game after a broken bat. "What can you say?" manager Dusty Baker said later. "Busted." Even funnier is that research suggests there is no advantage to corking a bat to improve home run power.
VBMG and MM still believe Slammy Sosa just used that bat to give fans who showed up early to games some entertainment during BP and he accidentally grabbed it for an actual game...