MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on September 16, 2017, 05:53:06 PM
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Athlon, Street & Smith, Lindy's all project MU to finish 7th-8th in the Big East this season. Clearly we all have more important things to talk about. But I will try something novel and actually try to talk about Marquette basketball. I think these predictions are fair. After all, significant returning minutes from last year are Markus, Rowsey, Sam, Haanif, and Heldt. Others with ANY D1 experience are Froling (one semester at another school) and Sacar. 4 freshmen from outside the top 100 (or just on the edge according to some. Regardless, not considered high impact)
Most of us tend to look at MU hoops through Blue and Gold glasses, so we see the potential with Harry. Improvement from Sacar and Haanif. Freshmen who come in and surprise everyone and outperform their high school rankings. But the major preseason predictions from the CBB magazines are not going to be as optimistic. They clearly see an inexperienced team lacking size at guard and forward.
I am going to continue to wear my homer glasses. I think that everyone improves and the freshmen contribute. Bubble team.
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Haven't seen the predictions, but I assume DePaul and Georgetown are at the bottom in most. When MU is picked 7th, are they also ahead of SJU? Creighton?
Anyhow, I think we'll be around 5th, and in the Dance again.
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They clearly see an inexperienced team lacking size at guard and forward.
Huh?
Point guard is the only position where the players are below average in terms of height.
Two guards and forwards are not undersized height wise.
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5-7 in the standings. First team of all Wojo recruits. Want to see defense out of this team as we know they can score. Rookies will be up and down. Hopefully more up in BE.
Lots of wild cards but will be fun to watch. Worried about OOC.
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Huh?
Point guard is the only position where the players are below average in terms of height.
Two guards and forwards are not undersized height wise.
If Howard and Rowsey are the starting guards, MU is seriously undersized at guard.
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if we finish ahead of only Georgetown (awful) and DePaul (always awful) in year 4 of the Wojo era I will be very disappointed - but I think we'll do considerably better (5th?).
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if we finish ahead of only Georgetown (awful) and DePaul (always awful) in year 4 of the Wojo era I will be very disappointed - but I think we'll do considerably better (5th?).
Only 1 senior on roster.....and 2 juniors.
...obviously hope we do better but too many unknowns to expect it ......progress doesn't happen in a straight line.
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I got us at 7th in the BEast and in the play in game in Dayton. But 5-7 in the Big East is really a crapshoot. Could see us finishing ahead of both Creighton and Butler. Will depend on how well each team's newcomers do. I really don't believe in St. John's. Not yet. I have seen nothing to convince me that Mullin can get that talent to play as a team. I think they will continue to be boom or bust.
Hearing positive things about Cain and Elliott's defense. I'm not surprised we're ranked low, we don't have a very intimidating recruiting class per the rankings. But I think this class could surprise some people.
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The only way this team gets to the dance is if all the returnees have improved AND they get consistent contributions from 4 others.
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The only way this team gets to the dance is if all the returnees have improved AND they get consistent contributions from 4 others.
At an advanced age, seems ludicrous to make sweeping generalizations with such certainty.
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I think 6-7 is a realistic prediction not because Wojo has done poorly or that the players aren't good/experienced. It's because this conference is really, really good. You could have 3 teams with protected seeds come selection Sunday.
Sweep Gtown and DePaul.
Split with SJU, CU and BU.
That gets you 7 wins.
8 games left with the top 4. Can you get 3 wins from that group? That gives you 10 BE wins and a 5th or 6th place finish.
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I'm the eternal optimist, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think 5th, though 4th isn't out of the realm of possibility. Frankly, it's because of whom I see behind us. DePaul and Georgetown seem set to prop up the league again. The Demons might win some games, but not enough to get them out of that bottom two. Creighton and Butler just lost too much for me to be that convinced by them. And not just what they lost, but I'm not sold on their replacements. I don't see either as tourney teams right now. That's four teams I see us ahead of.
At the other end, I think Villanova, Providence, and Seton Hall really should be the class of the league. Those are all teams that should be aiming for top-15 rankings and top-4 seeds in the NCAA Tournament.
That leaves a middle of Xavier, Marquette, and St. John's. I expect it will be in that order, but I could see us a spot up or a spot down. I think the league gets 5-6 bids this year. Non-conference will be huge. If we win 9 games, that should be at least 4 solid wins (Purdue, Maui x3, Wisconsin, Georgia, Vermont). Any more and we're in great shape. I think we finish 20-10 and are seeded right around the 6-8 lines.
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Villanova and Seton Hall will be the top two teams in the league. MU will be the best of the rest and finish 3rd.
I see our strengths in the Big Three of Markus , Rowsey and Sam . They are tremendous offensive threats from deep and work well together. As a group they will keep us close in every game with their three point prowess and excellent court vision.
Matt Heldt has improved at a steady rate through his two years and he is ready to give us 25 Big East quality minutes at center. He will do a lot of the dirty work essential to winning.
Haanif will return to his freshman year form. He is a quality kid and learned from his slump last year. I think he will ring up a lot of junk baskets from hustling and defense.
Sacar made the most of his year off. He will provide hustle and defense off the bench. I think he will be a real spark plug.
As to the newcomers , I see Froling with some nice scoring off the bench. Theo and Ike will provide strength and size around the rim. We definitely have the size to compete with any team.
Cain and Elliot will make steady progression throughout the year . we have the
Luxury of working them in at a pace conducive to their physical,strength gains.
Cam will play a valuable role keeping everyone pumped up again.
Coaching staff has learned a lot the and should be much improved from years past.
I think we make it into the tournament and get to the second weekend.
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At an advanced age, seems ludicrous to make sweeping generalizations with such certainty.
My age isn't that advanced and please present an alternative scenario that gets us to the dance.
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The only way this team gets to the dance is if all the returnees have improved AND they get consistent contributions from 4 others.
I disagree. I think it's fair to have high expectations for Howard, Rowsey, and Hauser. If Heldt and Haanif can be reliable, that's 5 guys. If those guys all have improvement, we can get there with consistent contributions from 2 others.
You don't need a consistent 9-man depth chart. It's nice, but it's a luxury. In the Pomeroy era (since 2001) last year was the first time we had 9 players average 30% of the team's minutes. Before that, we came close once (2007-08) and every other year had depth charts that went 6-8 deep.
If the five returning players are consistent and improved, we can get by with two others stepping up. You have to get to 200 minutes. We can do that with the following:
Howard - 30
Rowsey - 30
Hauser - 30
Heldt - 25
Cheatham - 25
Froling - 20
Anim - 20
Freshmen - 20 combined
That would be a 7-man depth chart with the kids picking up the slack, playing in the 4-8 mpg range each. If those first seven are all quality contributors, that's a deep enough bench, barring injuries, to get to the Dance. In the past, we've gotten there with little more depth than that.
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I dont know about predictions, but I certainly like our returners more than Creighton or Butler.
We have no clue how LaVall Jordan is going to do in his first year, and we saw what Creighton was like once Maurice Watson went down. I think Mintz is a nice player, but not enough to compensate for the losses of Patton and Watson.
Anyways, Markus and Rowsey can keep us in any game, and although SJ has a ton of talent, still not convinced with Mullin as a head coach. I say we finish 5th ahead of Depaul, Georgetown, Butler, Creighton and SJ.
Oh, and new and improved Harry Froling looks like a beast. https://www.instagram.com/p/BYPE2LRADxV/?taken-by=harryfroling
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Froling lost some weight, so what, what can he do on the court? Has anybody seen him play? Lets reserve judgement before you state he is a beast.
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Froling lost some weight, so what, what can he do on the court? Has anybody seen him play? Lets reserve judgement before you state he is a beast.
Skill has always been there, he was just fat and out of shape at SMU. Think raw talent of Freshman year Davante, just three inches taller and with a better jumpshot.
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Brew, I hope you are right. But.... I wonder how much Heldt and Fooling can play together. I wonder how much we will give up defensively with Rowsey and Howard playing 30 each. And Hauser at the 4 with Anim/Having at the 3 is still small. But I hope you are right.
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Brew, I hope you are right. But.... I wonder how much Heldt and Fooling can play together. I wonder how much we will give up defensively with Rowsey and Howard playing 30 each. And Hauser at the 4 with Anim/Having at the 3 is still small. But I hope you are right.
We are small on the perimeter, no doubt. I think our defense will be improved for a few reasons. First, another year in the system will help guys like Howard, Hauser, and Rowsey. Heldt was a better defender than Luke.
I don't expect elite defense, but if we can go from 165 in adjusted efficiency last year to even the top-100 it will be a huge jump and I feel is very attainable. Our ability to protect the rim should be better on the basis of depth, size, and athleticism in the post.
Offensively, I know most people expect a decline with the loss of Fischer, Johnson, and Reinhardt. I'm not so sure. Matt will likely have a lower usage than Luke, but he had a higher offensive rating and 2PFG% than Luke last year. When his minutes went up, his production (which usually declines with increased minutes) did not tail off. I can see him being an equally efficient, lower-usage version of Luke. We also return our two most efficient offensive players in Hauser and Rowsey. JJ was our second highest usage player after Markus last year yet he was second lowest on the team in effiency. And while Reinhardt was good (very good at times) he didn't have anything remotely close to irreplaceable production.
I fully believe Heldt and Cheatham have the ability to take over for Fischer and JJ without much drop-off (not saying they will, saying it's plausible to expect they can) and the expected improvement of the rest of the team can more than make up for the loss of Katin. I think our offense should be improved next year despite the graduations. I know we were 8th in the country in adjusted efficiency, but the ceiling for the 2017-18 team is higher than that.
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Uhhh, sorry but no way can Heldt replace Fischer on the offensive end. Haanif maybe, but he was so bad last year I have a hard time believing he can return to form in that magnitude.
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My age isn't that advanced and please present an alternative scenario that gets us to the dance.
Win 10 games in conference.
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Uhhh, sorry but no way can Heldt replace Fischer on the offensive end. Haanif maybe, but he was so bad last year I have a hard time believing he can return to form in that magnitude.
He'll be lower usage than Luke, but if he can convert even 60% of his FGs and rebound at the same or better level than last year, we won't notice any significant dropoff.
Remember, Luke only hit double-digits in scoring once in our last 7 games. Of those 7 games, he fouled out in 3 and was sitting on 4 fouls in 3 more. Matt will have to improve his fouling, but it's not like Luke was some indomitable force down the stretch, he became a bit player.
At the same time, the offense was just fine. With Markus, Rowsey, and Hauser all back, we won't need Matt to be what Luke was at his best, just what Luke was down the stretch. That's certainly within his capabilities not just to achieve, but to exceed.
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We are the most mysterious team in the conference. I honestly believe we could finish from third to seventh depending on a couple of variables that have yet to play out. They are:
1) The Michigan trio -- If they're the real thing, we should be very physical and very good. They're freshmen, so it is hard to gauge what we will get from them, but if they're as good as advertised, we'll be much improved underneath and have more depth.
2) Haani -- Do we get the Haani of two years ago or last year. If it is two years ago, we'll be in great shape. If it's last year, Haani may be who leaves to make room for QG. I'm voting for two years ago.
3) Froling -- Again, we have depth and I suspect that either Heldt steps up or he'll be backing up Froling by Christmas.
4) Defense -- It can't be worse and with a year of coaching, here's hoping it's better.
All said, I'm guessing 21-9 or 22-8 with penetration to at least the second week and maybe the third. Depends on the unknowns.
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I know no one believes this, but I'll say it again. Statistically, Haanif was a better overall player last season than he was as a freshman. The difference between the two was that he played for a crappy team his first year where we had no better options and he played for a good team his second year with better options.
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I know no one believes this, but I'll say it again. Statistically, Haanif was a better overall player last season than he was as a freshman. The difference between the two was that he played for a crappy team his first year where we had no better options and he played for a good team his second year with better options.
The sniff and smell tests say otherwise, especially during the BE season. Bottom line is that he really struggled as the season progressed. Stats be damned. That's why Wojo kept giving him fewer minutes as the season wore on. Politifact rates you Pants on Fire!
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Marquette is really going to need Cam Marotta's leadership this year.
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The sniff and smell tests say otherwise, especially during the BE season. Bottom line is that he really struggled as the season progressed. Stats be damned. That's why Wojo kept giving him fewer minutes as the season wore on. Politifact rates you Pants on Fire!
Haniff was horrible the last month last year. He spent most of his time on the bench where he belonged. I hope he really upped his game but unless he figures out
a jump shot and develops a mid-range game I can see alot of time on the bench again this year. He will get his opportunity, will probably start off starting at the 3,
lets see what happens. This team really will be at the bottom of the Big East unless Cain and Froling really are good. I was told Eke may redshirt.
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The sniff and smell tests say otherwise, especially during the BE season. Bottom line is that he really struggled as the season progressed. Stats be damned. That's why Wojo kept giving him fewer minutes as the season wore on. Politifact rates you Pants on Fire!
I don't think its so much that I'm overvaluing HC's sophomore year. It was a bad year. It's more that everyone way overvalued his freshman year.
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I don't think its so much that I'm overvaluing HC's sophomore year. It was a bad year. It's more that everyone way overvalued his freshman year.
Competition knew how to play him, take away his set shot, sure he can get by his man but he does not have the ability to use his right hand so the bigs could stop
him knowing he can only use his left hand, plus he has a little white man disease, can not jump nor is he quick off his feet. Played great as a freshman, but you could
see is weaknesses as they were glaring. Like I said, lets hope the coaching staff worked with him and he turns out to be like Vander his junior year, as Vander was
horrible his first 2 years.
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I know no one believes this, but I'll say it again. Statistically, Haanif was a better overall player last season than he was as a freshman. The difference between the two was that he played for a crappy team his first year where we had no better options and he played for a good team his second year with better options.
It's not as simple as that. He had a better offensive rating, but that was mainly down to his turnover percentage improving. His usage, eFG%, and shooting percentages at all three levels were down.
Further, consider recency bias. As a freshman, in his final 11 games (from February on) he had ORtg of 100+ in 7/11 games. He played 30+ minutes in 10/11 games & never played less than 21 minutes. He was one of the key components on that team and he was highly effective. As a sophomore, in his final 11 games, he had offensive ratings of 100+ in 3/11 games. Two of those were stints of 15 or fewer minutes in which he scored 4 combined points.He played 30+ minutes in 1/11 games & was below 20 minutes in 5/11 (the last 5). He became less effective in fewer minutes.
Haanif's "improvement" was almost solely down to not playing the point, which impacted his turnovers. There was no other metric that impacts offensive rating that showed enough improvement to actually explain that change. As the season went on, freshman Haani improved down the stretch & became more effective against conference competition, as a sophomore he declined down the stretch & became less effective against conference competition.
I'm hoping he can bounce back, but there are a lot of reasons people feel he was NOT a better overall player, & there are plenty of justifiable reasons why he declined, especially when you consider his play down the stretch as we battled for a NCAA berth. His only "good game" in the last two months was the win at DePaul. I would agree that from November-January he was improved, but it's really hard to defend the last third of the season.
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It's not as simple as that. He had a better offensive rating, but that was mainly down to his turnover percentage improving. His usage, eFG%, and shooting percentages at all three levels were down.
Further, consider recency bias. As a freshman, in his final 11 games (from February on) he had ORtg of 100+ in 7/11 games. He played 30+ minutes in 10/11 games & never played less than 21 minutes. He was one of the key components on that team and he was highly effective. As a sophomore, in his final 11 games, he had offensive ratings of 100+ in 3/11 games. Two of those were stints of 15 or fewer minutes in which he scored 4 combined points.He played 30+ minutes in 1/11 games & was below 20 minutes in 5/11 (the last 5). He became less effective in fewer minutes.
Haanif's "improvement" was almost solely down to not playing the point, which impacted his turnovers. There was no other metric that impacts offensive rating that showed enough improvement to actually explain that change. As the season went on, freshman Haani improved down the stretch & became more effective against conference competition, as a sophomore he declined down the stretch & became less effective against conference competition.
I'm hoping he can bounce back, but there are a lot of reasons people feel he was NOT a better overall player, & there are plenty of justifiable reasons why he declined, especially when you consider his play down the stretch as we battled for a NCAA berth. His only "good game" in the last two months was the win at DePaul. I would agree that from November-January he was improved, but it's really hard to defend the last third of the season.
This team lacks a true power forward so Sam will man that position again. The team will mostly be undersized this year so Cheatham probably play a lot at the 3.
The following year with Joey and Ed Morrow, there will be size at the 4, size everywhere. In saying that, Cheatham can be the X factor the next 2 years. Play like
Jalen Rose or play yourself out of playing time, up to him.
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This team lacks a true power forward so Sam will man that position again. The team will mostly be undersized this year so Cheatham probably play a lot at the 3.
The following year with Joey and Ed Morrow, there will be size at the 4, size everywhere. In saying that, Cheatham can be the X factor the next 2 years. Play like
Jalen Rose or play yourself out of playing time, up to him.
Froling, John, Eke, Anim and Cain can all play the 4. Froling will probably play more C than PF. John is the definition of a 4, but is a freshman. Anim and Cain probably closer to SF. I actually think Sam's days of the playing the 4 will be mostly over once Froling is eligible.
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Froling, John, Eke, Anim and Cain can all play the 4. Froling will probably play more C than PF. John is the definition of a 4, but is a freshman. Anim and Cain probably closer to SF. I actually think Sam's days of the playing the 4 will be mostly over once Froling is eligible.
Is Froling now a power forward, great, but if you think playing Heldt, Froling and Sam together, something will be missing. Like Athleticism! There in the Big East
not the MCC. Eke is not ready yet. Still 2 to3 years away.
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Is Froling now a power forward, great, but if you think playing Heldt, Froling and Sam together, something will be missing. Like Athleticism! There in the Big East
not the MCC. Eke is not ready yet. Still 2 to3 years away.
Those three will be playing together.
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Is Froling now a power forward, great, but if you think playing Heldt, Froling and Sam together, something will be missing. Like Athleticism! There in the Big East
not the MCC. Eke is not ready yet. Still 2 to3 years away.
I suspect those three will spend a ton of time on the court together this season.
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At an advanced age, seems ludicrous to make sweeping generalizations with such certainty.
Man, that was casting bait.
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My age isn't that advanced and please present an alternative scenario that gets us to the dance.
Well for me if 75-80% of that happens, I think we're dancing.
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If I said that our starting line up was going to be Heldt, Hauser, Haanif, Rowsey, and Howard, most would acknowledge that our team is going to be small. Our most experienced bench players in this scenario are Froling and Sacar, who have one semester of limited D-1 play and one season of limited D-1 play respectively. We have 4 freshmen that we assume are going to be good at some point, but none of whom were a consensus top 100 recruit. There is no doubt that there is talent here. How soon will the talent contribute? I am optimistically thinking bubble team. But an inexperienced roster like this can go sideways quickly.
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I think Nova/PC/Hall/X are clear NCAA teams.
I think MU/Butler/Creighton are teams that could make the tourney
I think Depaul/SJU/Georgetown are just not good. SJU could be but they won't be
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If I said that our starting line up was going to be Heldt, Hauser, Haanif, Rowsey, and Howard, most would acknowledge that our team is going to be small. Our most experienced bench players in this scenario are Froling and Sacar, who have one semester of limited D-1 play and one season of limited D-1 play respectively. We have 4 freshmen that we assume are going to be good at some point, but none of whom were a consensus top 100 recruit. There is no doubt that there is talent here. How soon will the talent contribute? I am optimistically thinking bubble team. But an inexperienced roster like this can go sideways quickly.
I agree with your assessment of the team. Lots of question marks, your above starting line-up has some issues, and I am not sure about Froling or Sacar, if they can become difference makers then they have a chance. John will help, Cain and Elliott are so skinny not sure if they are Big East ready. I see Ellliott or Cain getting sometime at the 2, just to play some D.
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I didn't realize how many people were down on Froling. I think many are going to be pleasantly surprised.
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I think Nova/PC/Hall/X are clear NCAA teams.
I think MU/Butler/Creighton are teams that could make the tourney
I think Depaul/SJU/Georgetown are just not good. SJU could be but they won't be
Pretty much sums up my thoughts
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I didn't realize how many people were down on Froling. I think many are going to be pleasantly surprised.
Agreed. I think Harry will be far more impactful than many are giving him credit for.
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Once eligible, I expect Harry to start. I include Heldt in my hypothetical for the "returning 5 starters' crowd.
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Once eligible, I expect Harry to start. I include Heldt in my hypothetical for the "returning 5 starters' crowd.
Yep once Harry is eligible I think starters are Markus, Rowsey, Sam, Harry, Heldt. Then Theo coming in probably for Heldt and Harry moving to the 5, Haanif in for one of Rowsey/Markus.
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Yep once Harry is eligible I think starters are Markus, Rowsey, Sam, Harry, Heldt. Then Theo coming in probably for Heldt and Harry moving to the 5, Haanif in for one of Rowsey/Markus.
Don't think Heldt and Harry wil start together or even play together. Neither is rangy or bouncy, so it's probably not a good combo.
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Don't think Heldt and Harry wil start together or even play together. Neither is rangy or bouncy, so it's probably not a good combo.
May not be the match made in heaven, but they're certainly going to play together. Harry is a PF.
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A very good research report on the athleticism of the newcomers.
https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2017/8/29/16165390/marquette-golden-eagles-2017-18-basketball-added-athleticism-freshmen-class-john-cain-elliott-eke
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Imagining Harry Froling trying to guard some of the athletes that play power forward in the BE is something that might give me nightmares. If Heldt and Luke couldn't play together because neither could defend a BE power forward, I'm not quite sold that Harry and Heldt can get that done either.
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Yes, those 2 kids give MU something they do not have right now and with Howard will give MU the opportunity to move to the next level. Add Grimes and now you
really have some athletes. Then you just need some kids to rebound and play D. John, Morrow will do that in 2 years. A line-up of Howard, Grimes, Sam, Morrow and
John with Cain, Elliott and Joey will give MU some real talent in the future, and I like Bailey a lot. Froling, Heldt, Cheatham and Sacar will see alot of bench time, that is how I see it.
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If I said that our starting line up was going to be Heldt, Hauser, Haanif, Rowsey, and Howard, most would acknowledge that our team is going to be small. Our most experienced bench players in this scenario are Froling and Sacar, who have one semester of limited D-1 play and one season of limited D-1 play respectively. We have 4 freshmen that we assume are going to be good at some point, but none of whom were a consensus top 100 recruit. There is no doubt that there is talent here. How soon will the talent contribute? I am optimistically thinking bubble team. But an inexperienced roster like this can go sideways quickly.
I just hope they are good rebounders. If we can get 10-15 rebounds per game from those 4 combined I'll be ecstatic. I just have a gut feeling we might take one step back this season as we are a very young team, again. I think anonymous eagle is looking though Blue and Gold glasses because if they are as good as he indicates at least a one of the pre-season ranking articles would have taken notice.
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I just hope they are good rebounders. If we can get 10-15 rebounds per game from those 4 combined I'll be ecstatic. I just have a gut feeling we might take one step back this season as we are a very young team, again. I think anonymous eagle is looking though Blue and Gold glasses because if they are as good as he indicates at least a one of the pre-season ranking articles would have taken notice.
They often say rebounding is a skill that translates at the next level. If that's true, Jamal Cain could be really exciting. It sounds like he can score, defend, hit the outside shot, but what always impressed me in his box scores was rebounding.
Cain averaged 14 rebounds as a senior. What makes that most impressive is that it was actually down from the 15.7 he averaged as a junior. He seems to have a nose for the loose ball.
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Imagining Harry Froling trying to guard some of the athletes that play power forward in the BE is something that might give me nightmares. If Heldt and Luke couldn't play together because neither could defend a BE power forward, I'm not quite sold that Harry and Heldt can get that done either.
Seems like you've watched Froling play quite a bit since his transfer to Marquette. Can you tell us more about his game and how it's developed since he joined the Marquette program?
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Yes, those 2 kids give MU something they do not have right now and with Howard will give MU the opportunity to move to the next level. Add Grimes and now you
really have some athletes. Then you just need some kids to rebound and play D. John, Morrow will do that in 2 years. A line-up of Howard, Grimes, Sam, Morrow and
John with Cain, Elliott and Joey will give MU some real talent in the future, and I like Bailey a lot. Froling, Heldt, Cheatham and Sacar will see alot of bench time, that is how I see it.
Froling is way better than you think he is.
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We are the most mysterious team in the conference. I honestly believe we could finish from third to seventh depending on a couple of variables that have yet to play out. They are:
1) The Michigan trio -- If they're the real thing, we should be very physical and very good. They're freshmen, so it is hard to gauge what we will get from them, but if they're as good as advertised, we'll be much improved underneath and have more depth.
2) Haani -- Do we get the Haani of two years ago or last year. If it is two years ago, we'll be in great shape. If it's last year, Haani may be who leaves to make room for QG. I'm voting for two years ago.
3) Froling -- Again, we have depth and I suspect that either Heldt steps up or he'll be backing up Froling by Christmas.
4) Defense -- It can't be worse and with a year of coaching, here's hoping it's better.
All said, I'm guessing 21-9 or 22-8 with penetration to at least the second week and I maybe the third. Depends on the unknowns.
You are thinking Final Four for this team???
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Froling is way better than you think he is.
I think Froling has worked hard to get into shape and is trying to make the most of his second chance. I am in the camp of keeping expectations low and hoping he out performs. With an All Wojo recruited roster, he has as good a chance as anyone on the team to get minutes and contribute.
It is worth reading the SMU message board.
http://www.ponyfans.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83306&hilit=froling
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I predict we will be undefeated in the preseason.
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Froling, Heldt, Cheatham and Sacar will see alot of bench time, that is how I see it.
I love Theo a lot, but if you think Froling is going to not be playing, then he's either ineligible or he moved back to Australia.
We are in a lot of trouble next two years if Ike sees the floor more than Froling and Heldt.
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Froling is way better than you think he is.
I saw him in New York at the Garden when looked like an elephant, not very impressive but big. Nice looking shot. I have not seen him play at any MU event yet.
He definitely has a different body today then he did a year ago. Looks much slender and somebody asked him what was the difference now? Harry said
I can dunk much easier. He is a below the rim player that can go out and shoot the 3. Lets see how Wojo uses him. I remember Lukes first few games, I thought he
could become the best center in MU history, but that did not happen.
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I think Froling has worked hard to get into shape and is trying to make the most of his second chance. I am in the camp of keeping expectations low and hoping he out performs. With an All Wojo recruited roster, he has as good a chance as anyone on the team to get minutes and contribute.
It is worth reading the SMU message board.
http://www.ponyfans.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83306&hilit=froling
Unless you are taking about Kostas, eh? ;D
And it's not worth reading the SMU message board. Its a bunch of bitter fans making fat jokes about a player who transferred from their team.
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Froling is way better than you think he is.
I hope so. Because I can't shake the image of Heldt looking like he didn't even belong on the court against South Carolina. I'm not sure he could have played worse if he was in an all-body cast. I know he had a couple good games at the end of the conference season, and a few other OK games. But I'm hoping he's a 10-15 minute player because Froling earns the assignment.
I'm also hoping John can rebound and play D for 15-20 minutes as a frosh, and Cain can make a solid contribution as a slasher/defender.
Obviously, like the rest of us, I'm hoping Haani regains his confidence. I love ya, TAMU, but there is absolutely no way sophomore Haani was as good as freshman Haani, no matter what kind of spin you want to put on it or advanced stats you want to use. I have eyes, and like the rest of us, I know a little something about basketball. For most of the conference season, and certainly from Feb. 1 on, Haani wasn't just bad, he was awful.
So we get Froling being better than many here think, John contributing some toughness, Haani being decent again, some nice minutes from Cain, 10-15 solid minutes from Matt, and great play from Markus, Sam and Rowsey ... along with much improved team defense and Wojo doing his best job of coaching ... and maybe we have a 20-win team that can grab a 8-9-10 seed. I'd be pretty happy with that. But even for an eternal optimist like me, I know that's a lot of ifs.
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I hope so. Because I can't shake the image of Heldt looking like he didn't even belong on the court against South Carolina. I'm not sure he could have played worse if he was in an all-body cast. I know he had a couple good games at the end of the conference season, and a few other OK games. But I'm hoping he's a 10-15 minute player because Froling earns the assignment.
I'm also hoping John can rebound and play D for 15-20 minutes as a frosh, and Cain can make a solid contribution as a slasher/defender.
Obviously, like the rest of us, I'm hoping Haani regains his confidence. I love ya, TAMU, but there is absolutely no way sophomore Haani was as good as freshman Haani, no matter what kind of spin you want to put on it or advanced stats you want to use. I have eyes, and like the rest of us, I know a little something about basketball. For most of the conference season, and certainly from Feb. 1 on, Haani wasn't just bad, he was awful.
So we get Froling being better than many here think, John contributing some toughness, Haani being decent again, some nice minutes from Cain, 10-15 solid minutes from Matt, and great play from Markus, Sam and Rowsey ... along with much improved team defense and Wojo doing his best job of coaching ... and maybe we have a 20-win team that can grab a 8-9-10 seed. I'd be pretty happy with that. But even for an eternal optimist like me, I know that's a lot of ifs.
Your intentionally dissing Ike.
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Unless you are taking about Kostas, eh? ;D
And it's not worth reading the SMU message board. Its a bunch of bitter fans making fat jokes about a player who transferred from their team.
The SMU message board is pretty engaged. Message boards tend to be directionally accurate.
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The SMU message board is pretty engaged. Message boards tend to be directionally accurate.
Do you spend a good amount of time on SMU message boards?
I have no idea if the SMU board is directionally accurate or not, but the thread you linked had twice as many fat joke posts as jokes offering any sort of insight to what kind of player Harry is.
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The SMU message board is pretty engaged. Message boards tend to be directionally accurate.
Lol ::)
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I think we may have just figured out who SMU17 was.....
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a3/98/51/a39851ea72d024cc580d0aa035e149ed.jpg)
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Your intentionally dissing Ike.
You're
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I hope so. Because I can't shake the image of Heldt looking like he didn't even belong on the court against South Carolina. I'm not sure he could have played worse if he was in an all-body cast. I know he had a couple good games at the end of the conference season, and a few other OK games. But I'm hoping he's a 10-15 minute player because Froling earns the assignment.
Couldn't agree more. I love the hustle that Matt provides, but we know what kind of player he is. He is a classic backup center. If he is our best inside player this year, we are in trouble and a definite 2nd division team in the BE.
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You're
Ike was told might red-shirt, any body else here that?
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Ike was told might red-shirt, any body else here that?
*Hear
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*Hear
thanks for the correction! here, hear all sounds the same to me!
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I hope so. Because I can't shake the image of Heldt looking like he didn't even belong on the court against South Carolina. I'm not sure he could have played worse if he was in an all-body cast. I know he had a couple good games at the end of the conference season, and a few other OK games. But I'm hoping he's a 10-15 minute player because Froling earns the assignment.
I'm also hoping John can rebound and play D for 15-20 minutes as a frosh, and Cain can make a solid contribution as a slasher/defender.
Obviously, like the rest of us, I'm hoping Haani regains his confidence. I love ya, TAMU, but there is absolutely no way sophomore Haani was as good as freshman Haani, no matter what kind of spin you want to put on it or advanced stats you want to use. I have eyes, and like the rest of us, I know a little something about basketball. For most of the conference season, and certainly from Feb. 1 on, Haani wasn't just bad, he was awful.
So we get Froling being better than many here think, John contributing some toughness, Haani being decent again, some nice minutes from Cain, 10-15 solid minutes from Matt, and great play from Markus, Sam and Rowsey ... along with much improved team defense and Wojo doing his best job of coaching ... and maybe we have a 20-win team that can grab a 8-9-10 seed. I'd be pretty happy with that. But even for an eternal optimist like me, I know that's a lot of ifs.
Solid analysis, especially (and regrettably) the paragraph on Haani.
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thanks for the correction! here, hear all sounds the same to me!
I here what your saying but their are posters on hear that care two much about grammar butt I figured Id correct it before they did
Sounds the same but pretty much unreadable
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There were 475 “power 6” players who played at least 40% of their team’s minutes. Of those 475, only 10, or 2.1%, had single-digit %Shots. No one was lower than 8%.
Heldt (who was over 30% but under 40% minutes) was at 6.5%. Six-point-five. That is extraordinarily low. Can he build it up to 11-14% while keeping turnovers low and making a nice eFG%? Maybe. But 6.5% is craaaaaazy low.
By the way, Luke was a healthy 20.6%.
With far less production coming from the center position, and seemingly nearly impossible comps on the 3FG% side of things, I can’t help but project a decline in offensive efficiency.
Need some nice gains in defense. I think Haani and hopefully Sacar can earn some PT simply by what they can do defensively.
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Need some nice gains in defense. I think Haani and hopefully Sacar can earn some PT simply by what they can do defensively.
I'm thinking this is where Elliott can carve out some time as well.
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I think all 3 freshman can help on the D. Close game, take Howard and Rowsey out, put in Cain and Elliott, and John. Of course, they are only freshman, did they ever
play D is high school? John looks like a defender, not sure about the other 2. There height alone will make a huge difference, all of sudden they would have good size
If Cain can defend with his height, he will get lots of time between the 2 and 3.
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Need another offense initiator outside of Howard and Rowsey. Lost Katin, JJJ and Duane who could all do "something" at the end of the shot clock. Otherwise, we might see a lot of the 2015 offense with getting to Carlino with 8 seconds left on the clock to try and get a shot.
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The sophomore amigos lost Novak & Chapman, had a frosh Lazar & Cubby + Dan Fitzgerald on the wings, and a rotating cast of Barro/Burke/Lott at the center. I think the pieces surrounding M2N, Hauser, and Rowsey are better than that. We dance.
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Ike was told might red-shirt, any body else here that?
Yes that he might, but no decision yet that I've heard.
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I think all 3 freshman can help on the D. Close game, take Howard and Rowsey out, put in Cain and Elliott, and John. Of course, they are only freshman, did they ever
play D is high school? John looks like a defender, not sure about the other 2. There height alone will make a huge difference, all of sudden they would have good size
If Cain can defend with his height, he will get lots of time between the 2 and 3.
In a close game don't think Wojo will take out his 2 best offensive players and put 2 freshman in. I could see one in the last play if he is an excellent defender, but 2 inexperienced Frosh at the end of a game handling the ball no.
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In a close game don't think Wojo will take out his 2 best offensive players and put 2 freshman in. I could see one in the last play if he is an excellent defender, but 2 inexperienced Frosh at the end of a game handling the ball no.
Ok while I agree with you 100%, let's not forget that Howard (an inexperienced frosh) has the ball in his hands a ton last year.
And better yet, at the end of the Nova game, a Frosh has the ball in his hands on the rebound.
Again, I 100% agree that I doubt that will happen this year with a frosh handling the ball. Not with who we have... but Wojo doesn't mind trotting out inexperienced players when he wants.
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Ike was told might red-shirt, any body else here that?
No. He is going to be needed the first 10 or so games. Maybe he'll redshirt as a sophomore like Sacar.
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No. He is going to be needed the first 10 or so games. Maybe he'll redshirt as a sophomore like Sacar.
I don't knooooow about that?
Pre-Froiling
Small line up:
Hauser at the 5.
Big lineup: Heldt or Theo at the 5
I am thinking hauser might get 5 min or so a game at C with a small high energy lineup.
I don't see heldt and Theo fouling out in the same game. Ike would play if needed but I just don't think we really need him right away?
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I don't knooooow about that?
Pre-Froiling
Small line up:
Hauser at the 5.
Big lineup: Heldt or Theo at the 5
I am thinking hauser might get 5 min or so a game at C with a small high energy lineup.
I don't see heldt and Theo fouling out in the same game. Ike would play if needed but I just don't think we really need him right away?
I suppose its possible, but they're an injury away from being scary thin. With transfers these days, I don't really see the point in redshirts. Its just asking for them to leave later on. Keep the kid in uniform for this year.
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I suppose its possible, but they're an injury away from being scary thin. With transfers these days, I don't really see the point in redshirts. Its just asking for them to leave later on. Keep the kid in uniform for this year.
Dang good point. I honestly didn't consider injury.
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Only 1 senior on roster.....and 2 juniors.
...obviously hope we do better but too many unknowns to expect it ......progress doesn't happen in a straight line.
There's the key. Lots of young talent. Let's get excited when they beat someone they shouldn't have, but let's not blow up this board when we get beat by someone we should've beaten....because its' going to happen. We'll finish 5th/6th and bubble team.
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I don't think we NEED a 3rd big to start the season (presumably Ike behind Theo and Heldt). I'm comfortable rolling with Sammysplash starting at the 4, Heldt at the 5 and John/Cain/Sacar backing up the 4/5 position for 10 games. We've certainly been thinner in the post before and still been successful.
However, I think a sophomore redshirt makes a lot more sense. In 17-18 you all of the sudden have Heldt, Froling, Big Hauser, Lil Hauser, Morrow, John, Eke, Bailey, Cain, and Anim who could all conceivably play in the post. Makes sense to have one of your big fellas redshirt in 17-18 and come back when Heldt has graduated.
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I don't think we NEED a 3rd big to start the season (presumably Ike behind Theo and Heldt). I'm comfortable rolling with Sammysplash starting at the 4, Heldt at the 5 and John/Cain/Sacar backing up the 4/5 position for 10 games. We've certainly been thinner in the post before and still been successful.
Yes. I think if the preference is to redshirt Ike (or anyone) this year, you just don't play him unless someone else goes down early. Don't announce your plan at least until Harry is eligible
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I don't think we NEED a 3rd big to start the season (presumably Ike behind Theo and Heldt). I'm comfortable rolling with Sammysplash starting at the 4, Heldt at the 5 and John/Cain/Sacar backing up the 4/5 position for 10 games. We've certainly been thinner in the post before and still been successful.
However, I think a sophomore redshirt makes a lot more sense. In 17-18 you all of the sudden have Heldt, Froling, Big Hauser, Lil Hauser, Morrow, John, Eke, Bailey, Cain, and Anim who could all conceivably play in the post. Makes sense to have one of your big fellas redshirt in 17-18 and come back when Heldt has graduated.
I am not sure why all the bearish posture on Ike. Wojo says the sky is the limit for him and Ike is a leader type, extremely popular among the team. I think the guy is a star in the making and everyone here is hung up on a silly ranking . The kid can give us some quality minutes of rim protection and rebounding on day 1 , can run like a gazelle and he actually has a decent jump shot, so what's not to like .
Was everyone watching the same South Carolina game I was last year? The Cocks were way more athletic than we were and we need athletic pogo stick studs like Ike to compete at the highest level.
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I am not sure why all the bearish posture on Ike. Wojo says the sky is the limit for him and Ike is a leader type, extremely popular among the team. I think the guy is a star in the making and everyone here is hung up on a silly ranking . The kid can give us some quality minutes of rim protection and rebounding on day 1 , can run like a gazelle and he actually has a decent jump shot, so what's not to like .
Was everyone watching the same South Carolina game I was last year? The Cocks were way more athletic than we were and we need athletic pogo stick studs like Ike to compete at the highest level.
I don't think my post was bearish on Ike, I guess I said he'd presumably be behind John and Heldt but that's more me being bullish on John and Heldt.
But if I were to be bearish on Ike, I'd point out its not one silly ranking. It's a whole bunch of silly rankings, including local guys from Detroit who have forgotten more about Michigan high school basketball then I will ever know. I am very bullish on Ike's career. I see a lot of physical tools and potential. But like a lot of players who didn't pick up the game until high school, there is sometimes an adjustment period.
I am also basing it on what I have heard coming out of the halls of the Al. I hear a lot about Cain (could have NBA potential), Elliott (relentless on D), and John (man child with Big East ready body). I hear less about Eke. Could end up being wrong. I hope I end up being wrong.
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I am not sure why all the bearish posture on Ike. Wojo says the sky is the limit for him and Ike is a leader type, extremely popular among the team. I think the guy is a star in the making and everyone here is hung up on a silly ranking . The kid can give us some quality minutes of rim protection and rebounding on day 1 , can run like a gazelle and he actually has a decent jump shot, so what's not to like .
Was everyone watching the same South Carolina game I was last year? The Cocks were way more athletic than we were and we need athletic pogo stick studs like Ike to compete at the highest level.
Actually I'd say we need a sindarius thornwell type player who is unstoppable
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I here what your saying but their are posters on hear that care two much about grammar butt I figured Id correct it before they did
Sounds the same but pretty much unreadable
What better things do academics have to do than correct Scoop spelling and grammar.
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Ok while I agree with you 100%, let's not forget that Howard (an inexperienced frosh) has the ball in his hands a ton last year.
And better yet, at the end of the Nova game, a Frosh has the ball in his hands on the rebound.
Again, I 100% agree that I doubt that will happen this year with a frosh handling the ball. Not with who we have... but Wojo doesn't mind trotting out inexperienced players when he wants.
Yes you are correct, but it was more out of need? Who else could provide what Markus was doing from 3 and FT. It became the Rowsey and Markus show, those two will be so in synch. Unless one of the freshmen becomes something special I would not see why Wojo would do it
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Need another offense initiator outside of Howard and Rowsey. Lost Katin, JJJ and Duane who could all do "something" at the end of the shot clock. Otherwise, we might see a lot of the 2015 offense with getting to Carlino with 8 seconds left on the clock to try and get a shot.
This is a concern of mine, too. JJJ and Duane could break down a defense and create a little havoc. Katin could get his own shot almost whenever he wanted. Who is going to do that for us this season? Maybe Markus, if he has improved his handle? Maybe Haani if he has mentally put last season in the rearview mirror? I guess we'll see. And of course, Luke could post up. Who will be our post presence on offense? Will be interesting to watch all of this develop.
We led the nation in 3-point shooting because we got a lot of wide-open 3s. And yet we still barely made the tourney. I'd hate to see us have to rely on a bunch of forced 3s.
Obviously, playing better D would help.
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We led the nation in 3-point shooting because we got a lot of wide-open 3s.
Nope. Could have never done it without insanely good 3FG shooting while GUARDED. 100th percentile last season.
As for your break down concerns... I think we may see Sam take giant leaps this year. He's capable.
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Nope. Could have never done it without insanely good 3FG shooting while GUARDED. 100th percentile last season.
As for your break down concerns... I think we may see Sam take giant leaps this year. He's capable.
JB, I admit to not knowing all of the advanced stats, so if there is preponderance of evidence showing we hit tons of hand-in-face 3-pointers, I will defer to you. I watched every game, and my recollections (sans stats) was that we shot an incredible percentage when we made the extra pass and took open 3s, and we did this more times than not. Now that I'm 106 years old, maybe my memory is flawed.
As for Sam maybe taking a giant leap, I agree that it is possible ... and I hope it is, too! All I heard about was Joey Joey Joey, so Sam's well-rounded game was an extremely nice surprise for me. He seems to be a very hard worker, and we know he has talent, so he certainly could take his game up a notch or three.
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It appears a number of folks talk about the future performance of individuals. I do not believe that will be the difference this year. If MU is to do well they will need to gel as a team. We simply do not have a strong proven go to player that can play both ends of the court. We have some very good role players that we hope will develop into consistent players on offense and defense. They also need to become better team players. If the above does not occur we will have made little progress. Moreover we are out of excuses in blaming the departure of Buzz.
My greatest concern is the administration sets the bar too low. We then have another less than stellar year but the reaction is business as usual. If this happens it will be anyone's guess as to when this program will be turned around.
I truly hope this does not happen. It is far to painful to watch a flopping fish on a ship's deck withering away. I hope for the best but i fear there is far too much uncertainty this year to be optimistic.
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It appears a number of folks talk about the future performance of individuals. I do not believe that will be the difference this year. If MU is to do well they will need to gel as a team. We simply do not have a strong proven go to player that can play both ends of the court. We have some very good role players that we hope will develop into consistent players on offense and defense. They also need to become better team players. If the above does not occur we will have made little progress. Moreover we are out of excuses in blaming the departure of Buzz.
My greatest concern is the administration sets the bar too low. We then have another less than stellar year but the reaction is business as usual. If this happens it will be anyone's guess as to when this program will be turned around.
I truly hope this does not happen. It is far to painful to watch a flopping fish on a ship's deck withering away. I hope for the best but i fear there is far too much uncertainty this year to be optimistic.
Can we blame Henry leaving early if we don't do well this year? Just kidding.
I think we've set the standard that we should be competitive this year but next year is the real "let's see what wojo can do" year. I don't think it's right to panic if we aren't great this year especially given our recruits coming in next year (with or without QG)
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It appears a number of folks talk about the future performance of individuals. I do not believe that will be the difference this year. If MU is to do well they will need to gel as a team. We simply do not have a strong proven go to player that can play both ends of the court. We have some very good role players that we hope will develop into consistent players on offense and defense. They also need to become better team players. If the above does not occur we will have made little progress. Moreover we are out of excuses in blaming the departure of Buzz.
My greatest concern is the administration sets the bar too low. We then have another less than stellar year but the reaction is business as usual. If this happens it will be anyone's guess as to when this program will be turned around.
I truly hope this does not happen. It is far to painful to watch a flopping fish on a ship's deck withering away. I hope for the best but i fear there is far too much uncertainty this year to be optimistic.
A step back this season does not equal Wojo being a bad coach. An inexperienced team is very difficult to predict.
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Nope. Could have never done it without insanely good 3FG shooting while GUARDED. 100th percentile last season.
As for your break down concerns... I think we may see Sam take giant leaps this year. He's capable.
The guarded 3s came mostly from Markus and Andrew and some from Katin. Sam, JaJuan, Katin to a large degree and Duane made mostly open treys off passes.
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The guarded 3s came mostly from Markus and Andrew and some from Katin. Sam, JaJuan, Katin to a large degree and Duane made mostly open treys off passes.
I do not remember Katin taking an open three. He just shot the ball when ever he wanted to. He almost always dribbled the ball before he shot.
Howard shot open threes. He was open, because his release was so quick. Another player in same situation would not of been open.
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I do not remember Katin taking an open three. He just shot the ball when ever he wanted to. He almost always dribbled the ball before he shot.
Howard shot open threes. He was open, because his release was so quick. Another player in same situation would not of been open.
As for Howard, that's kind of a circular argument. He was still closely guarded. Katin kind of laid off the guarded 3s as the season progressed. He did however post up a lot for shots.
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I think Katin took a bunch of open corner threes.
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The guarded 3s came mostly from Markus and Andrew and some from Katin. Sam, JaJuan, Katin to a large degree and Duane made mostly open treys off passes.
JB was being literal when he said MU was in the 100th percentile when it came to making guarded shots. In fact, it was the best team in the country scoring 1.27 PPP on 306 possessions (shooting 42.3% from 3). But contrary to popular belief, the two biggest "culprits" aren't Howard and Rowsey, but Howard and Hauser.
Howard 75 (52% accuracy)
Hauser 69 (43.5%)
Rowsey 51 (43.1%)
Reinhardt 44 (36.4%)
So again, listen to JB. Sam's excellent results on fairly light usage mean he has BIG breakout potential. It's not likely MU stays in the 100th percentile next season, but it will once again be elite in this respect.
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JB was being literal when he said MU was in the 100th percentile when it came to making guarded shots. In fact, it was the best team in the country scoring 1.27 PPP on 306 possessions (shooting 42.3% from 3). But contrary to popular belief, the two biggest "culprits" aren't Howard and Rowsey, but Howard and Hauser.
Howard 75 (52% accuracy)
Hauser 69 (43.5%)
Rowsey 51 (43.1%)
Reinhardt 44 (36.4%)
So again, listen to JB. Sam's excellent results on fairly light usage mean he has BIG breakout potential. It's not likely MU stays in the 100th percentile next season, but it will once again be elite in this respect.
Are you saying the "eye test" was wrong????
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I suppose its possible, but they're an injury away from being scary thin. With transfers these days, I don't really see the point in redshirts. Its just asking for them to leave later on. Keep the kid in uniform for this year.
Pre-Froling Depth Chart:
Guards: Rowsey, Cheatham, Howard, Elliott
Forwards: Hauser, Anim, Cain
Bigs: Heldt, John, Eke
If you take Eke away, that's still 9 guys deep, which is deeper than we've been most years since 2001. Not sure how interchangeable everyone is, but if Heldt and John can man the center position with Hauser coming in on small lineups, and John, Hauser, and Cain can hold down the four, it's certainly conceivable that a three-guard lineup could get us through the first six weeks without needing a single minute from Eke.
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A step back this season does not equal Wojo being a bad coach. An inexperienced team is very difficult to predict.
Agree,. So how long does it take?
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A step back this season does not equal Wojo being a bad coach. An inexperienced team is very difficult to predict.
Don't disagree, but a whole lot of teams get good production out of freshmen so we can't just assume because they are freshmen we shouldn't expect much out of them.
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Agree,. So how long does it take?
5 years to judge a coach man. I thought everybody knew!
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Pre-Froling Depth Chart:
Guards: Rowsey, Cheatham, Howard, Elliott
Forwards: Hauser, Anim, Cain
Bigs: Heldt, John, Eke
If you take Eke away, that's still 9 guys deep, which is deeper than we've been most years since 2001. Not sure how interchangeable everyone is, but if Heldt and John can man the center position with Hauser coming in on small lineups, and John, Hauser, and Cain can hold down the four, it's certainly conceivable that a three-guard lineup could get us through the first six weeks without needing a single minute from Eke.
I still don't understand your venom and prejudice against Ike. He is very talented and to just assume he is the last guy is flat our flawed analysis. Wojo says the Skys the limit for Ike.
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Don't disagree, but a whole lot of teams get good production out of freshmen so we can't just assume because they are freshmen we shouldn't expect much out of them.
A lot of time freshmen success is based on opportunity. I think we all agree that Sam had a great freshmen season. The question I have is what would of happened, if Henry did not go pro? Henry (by memory) played 34 minutes a game as a freshmen. Even if he dropped down to 25 minutes a game, it would pretty much regulated Sam to the bench last season. Haanif and Wilson contributed a lot as freshmen, but their roles diminished as the overall team talent increased.
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I still don't understand your venom and prejudice against Ike. He is very talented and to just assume he is the last guy is flat our flawed analysis. Wojo says the Skys the limit for Ike.
I think what he is saying is, that Ike needs more basketball experience, has played the game a short period of time. I was surprised when that player told me, figuring
a 6'10' lanky player who played some soccer could be a big help on the defensive side and play tall at times. I really think MU needs his help this year with only 10 players to start with. Only big on the bench would be John. The following year they have to many bigs, but never have enough of them.
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I still don't understand your venom and prejudice against Ike. He is very talented and to just assume he is the last guy is flat our flawed analysis. Wojo says the Skys the limit for Ike.
First, his post had zero venom.
Second, while you are entitled to your opinion on Ike (and I hope you are correct), when Wojo said the sky was the limit, he probably didn't mean the first ten games of his first year.
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A step back this season does not equal Wojo being a bad coach. An inexperienced team is very difficult to predict.
While I agree with your premise, whose responsibility (fault, if you will) is it that we're so inexperienced in Wojo's 4th year?
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While I agree with your premise, whose responsibility (fault, if you will) is it that we're so inexperienced in Wojo's 4th year?
Henry and Duane
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Henry and Duane
This is silly....one was a stated one and done player...only the fan-board faithful thought it was in question. The other had a minimized role due to other players getting more mins.
Surprises happen like injuries or Vander - but even in those circumstances the coach owns the roster.
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This is silly....one was a stated one and done player...only the fan-board faithful thought it was in question. The other had a minimized role due to other players getting more mins.
Surprises happen like injuries or Vander - but even in those circumstances the coach owns the roster.
You took that serious? Lmao I should've included burton cohen and Dawson as reasons we didn't make the sweet 16
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You took that serious? Lmao I should've included burton cohen and Dawson as reasons we didn't make the sweet 16
Sorry yes I did -- poor teal radar.
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Henry and Duane
Sorry, but no. Everyone, including Wojo, knew Henry was a one and done. He was gone LAST year. Duane was a reserve who would have been a 5th year player.
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Sorry, but no. Everyone, including Wojo, knew Henry was a one and done. He was gone LAST year. Duane was a reserve who would have been a 5th year player.
I invite you to read the post I said 4min before you posted this... some things I thought were obviously sarcastic...
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I invite you to read the post I said 4min before you posted this... some things I thought were obviously sarcastic...
Sorry I missed it, Bags.
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It appears a number of folks talk about the future performance of individuals. I do not believe that will be the difference this year. If MU is to do well they will need to gel as a team. We simply do not have a strong proven go to player that can play both ends of the court. We have some very good role players that we hope will develop into consistent players on offense and defense. They also need to become better team players. If the above does not occur we will have made little progress. Moreover we are out of excuses in blaming the departure of Buzz.
My greatest concern is the administration sets the bar too low. We then have another less than stellar year but the reaction is business as usual. If this happens it will be anyone's guess as to when this program will be turned around.
First, I guess we need to define "another less than stellar year." Was last year less than stellar? The previous year?
And if we go, say, 17-13 and miss the tourney this season, what would you have the administration do? Fire Wojo and his staff and start over from scratch? If the administration keeps Wojo after that less than stellar year, would that be acceptance of "business as usual" and doom the program?
I know there are people who think I talk about Shaka too much, but usually I'm just making silly one liners. Seriously, we all wanted Shaka - myself included - but the man went 11-22 in his second season at Texas after being ranked going into the season. 11-22!!! Should Texas have fired him?
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Off topic but can someone remind me what non con tournament MU is in 18-19 season?
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Off topic but can someone remind me what non con tournament MU is in 18-19 season?
I do not believe it's been announced yet.
And wow...I know sarcasm doesn't always translate well, but that post by the Boxer was screaming teal from 100 miles away.
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A little love from bleacherreport. Yes I know bleacher report is usually a joke but this actually did seem fairly well researched.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2733370-one-surprise-team-to-watch-in-each-major-college-basketball-conference
Some love from NCAA.com
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-09-19/college-basketball-all-sleeper-team-look-these-guys-bust-out
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5 years to judge a coach man. I thought everybody knew!
Correction. It's 4to5yearstojudge now.
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I see the 2017-18 schedule breaking down into 4 categories:
Near-automatic wins
We should have roughly a 95% probability to beat Mt. St. Mary's (H), E. Illinois (H), Chicago State (H), N. Illinois (H) and America (H). Expecting 5 wins here. Hopefully no surprises.
Strong favorite
Games in which Marquette is favored with a win probability of 65-90%. I see 8 games in this category: Georgia (H), Vermont (H), Georgetown (H), DePaul (H), Butler (H), Creighton (H), St. John's (H) and DePaul (A). Expect to win 6 out of 8 overall, and 4 out of 6 Big East games. Record: 11-2 (4-2).
Pick-em games
Games that could go either way, with basically 50-50 odds to win. This is the majority of the schedule, including VCU (N), Purdue (H), Wisconsin (A), Villanova (H), Xavier (H), Butler (A), Providence (H), Seton Hall (H), St. John's (A), Creighton (A) and Georgetown (A). And throw in the TBA games in Maui. Say we go 7-6 overall, 4-4 in conference. Record: 18-8 (8-6).
Strong underdog
Games in which Marquette is the underdog with a win probability of 20-40%. I see 4 games here: Providence (A), Villanova (A), Xavier (A) and Seton Hall (A). We win 1 out of 4. Record going into the Big East tournament: 19-11 (9-9). Pretty much right on the bubble, but probably dancing again.
Strengths of the team include 5 players (Howard, Rowsey, Cheatham, Hauser and Heldt) with starting experience and a lot of talent overall. Weaknesses include very little proven experience beyond the 5 mentioned above. Should be an interesting season.
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I think we get Wichita State in the second round and would be a strong underdog. Same with Nova at home.
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I see the 2017-18 schedule breaking down into 4 categories:
Near-automatic wins
We should have roughly a 95% probability to beat Mt. St. Mary's (H), E. Illinois (H), Chicago State (H), N. Illinois (H) and America (H). Expecting 5 wins here. Hopefully no surprises.
Strong favorite
Games in which Marquette is favored with a win probability of 65-90%. I see 8 games in this category: Georgia (H), Vermont (H), Georgetown (H), DePaul (H), Butler (H), Creighton (H), St. John's (H) and DePaul (A). Expect to win 6 out of 8 overall, and 4 out of 6 Big East games. Record: 11-2 (4-2).
Pick-em games
Games that could go either way, with basically 50-50 odds to win. This is the majority of the schedule, including VCU (N), Purdue (H), Wisconsin (A), Villanova (H), Xavier (H), Butler (A), Providence (H), Seton Hall (H), St. John's (A), Creighton (A) and Georgetown (A). And throw in the TBA games in Maui. Say we go 7-6 overall, 4-4 in conference. Record: 18-8 (8-6).
Strong underdog
Games in which Marquette is the underdog with a win probability of 20-40%. I see 4 games here: Providence (A), Villanova (A), Xavier (A) and Seton Hall (A). We win 1 out of 4. Record going into the Big East tournament: 19-11 (9-9). Pretty much right on the bubble, but probably dancing again.
Strengths of the team include 5 players (Howard, Rowsey, Cheatham, Hauser and Heldt) with starting experience and a lot of talent overall. Weaknesses include very little proven experience beyond the 5 mentioned above. Should be an interesting season.
I have a much more Love for Sacar than mentioned above.this team.
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Strengths of the team include 5 players (Howard, Rowsey, Cheatham, Hauser and Heldt) with starting experience and a lot of talent overall. Weaknesses include very little proven experience beyond the 5 mentioned above. Should be an interesting season.
Now you're making me a little nervous by putting Heldt in the group with "proven experience." And Haani, too, for that matter.
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Now you're making me a little nervous by putting Heldt in the group with "proven experience." And Haani, too, for that matter.
Heldt played double-digit minutes in 13/20 games starting with Big East play through the NCAA Tournament. He had a 100+ offensive rating in 10 of those 13 games. He didn't shoot much but was 18/26 from the field (69.2%) and averaged 3 rpg. He also became more integral as the season went on, playing double digit minutes in our last 7 games and 20+ in 5 of those 7.
I know it doesn't seem like that much, but Heldt is far, far more proven than Luke was when he took the starting role in the middle of the 2014-15 season.
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I know it doesn't seem like that much, but Heldt is far, far more proven than Luke was when he took the starting role in the middle of the 2014-15 season.
:o
Not close. Luke far more 'proven' outside of stats at the same time. Very diff situations.
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Heldt played double-digit minutes in 13/20 games starting with Big East play through the NCAA Tournament. He had a 100+ offensive rating in 10 of those 13 games. He didn't shoot much but was 18/26 from the field (69.2%) and averaged 3 rpg. He also became more integral as the season went on, playing double digit minutes in our last 7 games and 20+ in 5 of those 7.
I know it doesn't seem like that much, but Heldt is far, far more proven than Luke was when he took the starting role in the middle of the 2014-15 season.
I hope all of the MU fans who are very comfortable with Heldt as our starting center turn out to be right. Because right now, we have no other choice.
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I think we get Wichita State in the second round and would be a strong underdog. Same with Nova at home.
Good points. I may be overly optimistic, and one or two games will likely make or break the season. To the strengths of the team, I'd add Wojo and the coaching staff. Last season they took a very unbalanced team with a lot of new players (Howard, Hauser, Rowsey and Reinhardt) and found a way to get us into the tournament. I think they can do it again.
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I have a much more Love for Sacar than mentioned above.
I hope Sacar is a total stud. Can't wait to see him on the court. But right now he's totally unproven and a complete unknown. I think improvement by Markus and Sam (along with Haanif and Matt) will be much more important to a successful season.
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Good points. I may be overly optimistic, and one or two games will likely make or break the season.
The season will not be made or broke before Thanksgiving.
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The season will not be made or broke before Thanksgiving.
Agreed. And this team will have to get better throughout the season to make it back to the NCAAs. We just don't know what Harry, Theo, Ike, Greg, Jamal and Sacar will contribute at this point.
I think it's reasonable to assume we won't be worse defensively, and chances are we'll be better. How much is anyone's guess. This looks like a stronger rebounding team to me, as well. On the other hand, matching last season's offense will be a tall order.
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I hope Sacar is a total stud. Can't wait to see him on the court. But right now he's totally unproven and a complete unknown. I think improvement by Markus and Sam (along with Haanif and Matt) will be much more important to a successful season.
I'm not looking for a total stud, but a Solid contributor. I seem to remember at the end of last year Reinhardt was very complimentary of Sacar as he played the major role of being the Best player on the opposing practice team. I expect he will have most of his time at the 2-3.
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:o
Not close. Luke far more 'proven' outside of stats at the same time. Very diff situations.
Luke had played one game against a high-major opponent when he played double-digit minutes. That was 10 scoreless minutes against Notre Dame as a freshman at Indiana. Heldt has done far more at the collegiate level, far, far, far, far, far more than Luke had done when he stepped into the starting role. Luke may have torn it up in practice, may have done great at a lower level, but as far as this level, D1 basketball, Matt's miles ahead of Luke in terms of when he was expected to start.
Also, I think it's worth noting that in the last 7 games of the season, when Matt took the starting role from Luke, he wasn't just getting the token start like we've seen in the past for Juan Anderson, Erik Williams, etc. He was also getting more minutes than Luke in 5 of the last 7 games of the season. So the staff actually trusted Matt to be out there more.
Matt isn't near as assertive as Luke, and I certainly don't think he'll put up points like that, but if he can limit his fouls I think he can be a 5/5 guy who plays solid defense and scores enough to keep the defense honest. He already earned the trust of the coaches, not sure why the fans are so reticent to give him that same trust.
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Maybe the single biggest strength this season is the return of arguably the best 3-point shooting trio in the country.
Markus, Sam and Andrew combined to shoot 216-448 (48.2%) in 2016-17. That's nearly 7 made threes a game. It's one thing to cover a single deadeye shooter, another thing entirely to account for two or three spread around the perimeter. That can be tough to gameplan for.
If one or two other players can step up to hit 37-40% (as JaJuan and Katin did last year), at least that part of the offense will be in really good shape.
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Because of the stiffer toughness in practice against Harry and Ed, I think Matt will contribute more than he did last year.
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I'm not trying to get over excited but Sacar was mr basketball and a pretty high level recruit. He just came in with a good class and that class was followed up with a rockstar class.
I think he'll be a solid energy guy off the bench early in the season and depending on how Haani does, he could be starting early in OOC.
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The 144 rankings has us at 49
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/15123
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I'm not trying to get over excited but Sacar was mr basketball and a pretty high level recruit. He just came in with a good class and that class was followed up with a rockstar class.
I think he'll be a solid energy guy off the bench early in the season and depending on how Haani does, he could be starting early in OOC.
He was also young for his class. In the little time he played he showed the ability to score. He is the type of player that was a very good candidate to redshirt.
He has talent, but was not quite ready to significantly contribute.
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The most important aspect of Matt Heldt's improvement this offseason is that he can now play with his back to the basket.
And make it in the other basket.
http://www.tmj4.com/sports/marquette-player-matt-heldt-hits-half-court-shot-to-win-ice-cream-for-kids-twice (http://www.tmj4.com/sports/marquette-player-matt-heldt-hits-half-court-shot-to-win-ice-cream-for-kids-twice)
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Don't know the methodology, but T-Rank projects MU to finish 10-8 in the Big East, tied with Providence for 4th in the conference. Best offensive efficiency, second worst defensive efficiency — in other words, pretty much a repeat of what we saw a year ago. I'd take that.
http://adamcwisports.blogspot.com/p/every-possession-counts.html (http://adamcwisports.blogspot.com/p/every-possession-counts.html)
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Don't know the methodology, but T-Rank projects MU to finish 10-8 in the Big East, tied with Providence for 4th in the conference. Best offensive efficiency, second worst defensive efficiency — in other words, pretty much a repeat of what we saw a year ago. I'd take that.
http://adamcwisports.blogspot.com/p/every-possession-counts.html (http://adamcwisports.blogspot.com/p/every-possession-counts.html)
Wisconsin at 9-9 in Big 14 and 17-13 overall.
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Don't know the methodology, but T-Rank projects MU to finish 10-8 in the Big East, tied with Providence for 4th in the conference. Best offensive efficiency, second worst defensive efficiency — in other words, pretty much a repeat of what we saw a year ago. I'd take that.
http://adamcwisports.blogspot.com/p/every-possession-counts.html (http://adamcwisports.blogspot.com/p/every-possession-counts.html)
Did a quick search and it looks like they include transfers in the analysis (ex. Koulechov for Florida - what could have been! and Derrick Thornton for USC) plus a game by game breakdown.
I like it! Been waiting for Pomeroy's update for what seems like forever now. Just wish the color background on the team pages weren't so grating.
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Did a quick search and it looks like they include transfers in the analysis (ex. Koulechov for Florida - what could have been! and Derrick Thornton for USC) plus a game by game breakdown.
I like it! Been waiting for Pomeroy's update for what seems like forever now. Just wish the color background on the team pages weren't so grating.
I talked to Bart several weeks back & don't think this has changed: Mid-year transfers (e.g., Harry for us) are NOT included. So, it's a question of whether adding Harry to the model would help us or hurt us. I think it's a big plus, but the model doesn't know about him.
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T-Ranketology projects Marquette as a 7 seed in the 2018 NCAA tournament. Five other Big East teams get bids: Villanova (1 seed), Xavier (3), Seton Hall (4), Providence (6) and Butler (8).
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T-Ranketology projects Marquette as a 7 seed in the 2018 NCAA tournament. Five other Big East teams get bids: Villanova (1 seed), Xavier (3), Seton Hall (4), Providence (6) and Butler (8).
Creighton is a hard team to peg. They have two transfers coming in that could make or break their season. Kaleb Joseph was a top 50 player coming out of high school and was a decent starter for Syracuse his freshman season. He absolutely tanked his sophomore season. If his sophomore season was an anomaly, they could be alright. Manny Suarez was a stud at the D2 level, averaging a double double and shooting well from outside. But he started his career as a benchwarmer at Fordham. Can he translate his D2 success to the Big East? Or will he go right back to being a benchwarmer?
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Creighton is a hard team to peg. They have two transfers coming in that could make or break their season. Kaleb Joseph was a top 50 player coming out of high school and was a decent starter for Syracuse his freshman season. He absolutely tanked his sophomore season. If his sophomore season was an anomaly, they could be alright. Manny Suarez was a stud at the D2 level, averaging a double double and shooting well from outside. But he started his career as a benchwarmer at Fordham. Can he translate his D2 success to the Big East? Or will he go right back to being a benchwarmer?
Out of curiosity is there any data to show who is more successful between D2 transfers and Juco transfers?
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I talked to Bart several weeks back & don't think this has changed: Mid-year transfers (e.g., Harry for us) are NOT included. So, it's a question of whether adding Harry to the model would help us or hurt us. I think it's a big plus, but the model doesn't know about him.
Interesting! Thanks
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Bumpity
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Athlon, Street & Smith, Lindy's all project MU to finish 7th-8th in the Big East this season. Clearly we all have more important things to talk about. But I will try something novel and actually try to talk about Marquette basketball. I think these predictions are fair. After all, significant returning minutes from last year are Markus, Rowsey, Sam, Haanif, and Heldt. Others with ANY D1 experience are Froling (one semester at another school) and Sacar. 4 freshmen from outside the top 100 (or just on the edge according to some. Regardless, not considered high impact)
Most of us tend to look at MU hoops through Blue and Gold glasses, so we see the potential with Harry. Improvement from Sacar and Haanif. Freshmen who come in and surprise everyone and outperform their high school rankings. But the major preseason predictions from the CBB magazines are not going to be as optimistic. They clearly see an inexperienced team lacking size at guard and forward.
I am going to continue to wear my homer glasses. I think that everyone improves and the freshmen contribute. Bubble team.
Dammmmnnmm, I'm good.
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The only way this team gets to the dance is if all the returnees have improved AND they get consistent contributions from 4 others.
Bump.
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If I said that our starting line up was going to be Heldt, Hauser, Haanif, Rowsey, and Howard, most would acknowledge that our team is going to be small. Our most experienced bench players in this scenario are Froling and Sacar, who have one semester of limited D-1 play and one season of limited D-1 play respectively. We have 4 freshmen that we assume are going to be good at some point, but none of whom were a consensus top 100 recruit. There is no doubt that there is talent here. How soon will the talent contribute? I am optimistically thinking bubble team. But an inexperienced roster like this can go sideways quickly.
I'm not gonna lie. This is fun.
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Most seemed to get it right.
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I'm not gonna lie. This is fun.
You were right. We sucked. Glad you're happy.
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You were right. We sucked. Glad you're happy.
Damn near spit out the bite I took off my burrito at Chipotle.
T-Ranketology projects Marquette as a 7 seed in the 2018 NCAA tournament. Five other Big East teams get bids: Villanova (1 seed), Xavier (3), Seton Hall (4), Providence (6) and Butler (8).
So T-Rank basically got it right with the exception of Creighton getting in and MU not getting in. Missed pretty badly on us as a 7 seed.
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You were right. We sucked. Glad you're happy.
MU played as well as a 9 player team playing 3 freshmen big minutes could be expected to. Wearing an MU Jersey does not change immutable truths.
I made the argument multiple times. Take Marquette off the Jersey. If I told you that team X would......
Have 9 scholarship players
3 of whom were outside the top 100 freshmen
3 of whom played the same position and nowhere else
4 sophomores
Have two starting guards and leading scorers under 6'.
Would live and die by the 3
Playing in a brutally tough conference
With one of the toughest schedules in the country
Completely objectively, what would you predict for that team?
If you would objectively predict that team would go to the NCAA tourney, I would question your judgement.
Marquette on the front of the Jersey does not exempt MU from logic.
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MU played as well as a 9 player team playing 3 freshmen big minutes could be expected to. Wearing an MU Jersey does not change immutable truths.
I made the argument multiple times. Take Marquette off the Jersey. If I told you that team X would......
Have 9 scholarship players
3 of whom were outside the top 100 freshmen
3 of whom played the same position and nowhere else
Have two starting guards and leading scorers under 6'.
Would live and die by the 3
Playing in a brutally tough conference
With one of the toughest schedules in the country
Completely objectively, what would you predict for that team?
If you would objectively predict that team would go to the NCAA tourney, I would question your judgement.
Marquette on the front of the Jersey does not exempt MU from logic.
Those "big" minutes you reference our freshman playing - well, Greg played 48% of conference minutes, Jamal 41% and Theo 25% - not exactly "big" minutes.
And if I told you 2 of the 3 returning players - the 5th year senior Rowsey, and sophomore Sam Hauser, would turn in the 2nd and 3rd best Value Add seasons THIS CENTURY at MU, after D-Wade, would you expect that team to miss the NCAA?
Lastly, who cares about Top 100 prospects? Thought that didn't matter? At least it didn't as it related to the 7 Wojo inherited in the empty cupboard when he took over.
Considering Wojo barely got us into the tourney last season when we were the Number 1, 3point shooting team in the land, and that we were a high volume 3 point shooting team was pause for concern. As elite from 3 as we were last year, we should have been MUCH better than a 10 seed.
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Those "big" minutes you reference our freshman playing - well, Greg played 48% of conference minutes, Jamal 41% and Theo 25% - not exactly "big" minutes.
And if I told you 2 of the 3 returning players - the 5th year senior Rowsey, and sophomore Sam Hauser, would turn in the 2nd and 3rd best Value Add seasons THIS CENTURY at MU, after D-Wade, would you expect that team to miss the NCAA?
Lastly, who cares about Top 100 prospects? Thought that didn't matter? At least it didn't as it related to the 7 Wojo inherited in the empty cupboard when he took over.
Considering Wojo barely got us into the tourney last season when we were the Number 1, 3point shooting team in the land, and that we were a high volume 3 point shooting team was pause for concern. As elite from 3 as we were last year, we should have been MUCH better than a 10 seed.
The top 3 point shooting team in the country this year failed to make the tournament. In fact 6 of the 10 top three point shooting teams didn't make it.
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The top 3 point shooting team in the country this year failed to make the tournament. In fact 6 of the 10 top three point shooting teams didn't make it.
Low majors I assume? Can you link results, as I can't seem to find on Pomeroy? Interesting stat nonetheless - as I'd heard eFG% reigns supreme.
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Low majors I assume? Can you link results, as I can't seem to find on Pomeroy? Interesting stat nonetheless - as I'd heard eFG% reigns supreme.
It's actually 8 of the top 10 shooting teams.
William and Mary
Purdue
Marquette
Michigan State
Weber St
Idaho
Lehigh
Toledo
St Marys
Vermont
EFG DOES reign supreme. But it's differential that's important. It doesn't matter if you shoot a high EFG% if you allow the other team to shoot a higher one.
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It's actually 8 of the top 10 shooting teams.
William and Mary
Purdue
Marquette
Michigan State
Weber St
Idaho
Lehigh
Toledo
St Marys
Vermont
EFG DOES reign supreme. But it's differential that's important. It doesn't matter if you shoot a high EFG% if you allow the other team to shoot a higher one.
Thanks - can you show what percentage 3 point shots accounted for, for each of the above teams? Essentially the usage of the 3-ball?
Not surprised to see 7 low majors on this list as it is a different brand of basketball played at low major level - the defense generally isn't as good. Major accomplishment to be a high major team and be so effective from 3.
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Marquette was 39th in the country this year if you divide 3FGA by FGA. 44.8% of its shots were from three.
Villanova was 16th at 46.6%
Creighton was 38th
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Marquette was 39th in the country this year if you divide 3FGA by FGA. 44.8% of its shots were from three.
Villanova was 16th at 46.6%
Creighton was 38th
Thanks. Just saw how to get the info on Pomeroy. Interesting to look at.
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I'm not gonna lie. This is fun.
So lose the trending upward mantra you have been trying to sell, and embrace your going sideways comment. That is the accurate prediction.
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Thanks. Just saw how to get the info on Pomeroy. Interesting to look at.
Is that code for "I was flat out misguided in my uninformed opinion but I won't admit it"?
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So lose the trending upward mantra you have been trying to sell, and embrace your going sideways comment. That is the accurate prediction.
Willie, I have elaborated elsewhere on what I think of Wojo right now. As far as these predictions and sideways versus upwards, I saw this as a rebuilding year even before Haanif left. I also optimistically thought that Froling would be a difference maker. Not what I wanted, but when I analyzed the team objectively before the season started, that is where arrived.
I wanted to see growth among the young players in preparation for 18-19. To me, that would be upward and not sideways. So, from a big picture perspective, I am not bitter and angry. Sure, individual losses are frustrating. I don't know if Wojo takes Marquette to the promised land, but his age and lineage says you would be a damned fool to fire him now.
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Is that code for "I was flat out misguided in my uninformed opinion but I won't admit it"?
No. Not at all. We were only 1 of 5, Power 5 teams to be in the Top 20 in 3pt % and the Top 100 teams in Attempts. The others:
Purdue
Michigan State
Kansas
Villanova
LOL. Not quite our peers in W/L, NCAA seeding. So, as you can see there is a strong correlation between being a high volume and high 3-point shooting percentage team, and elite performance at the high major level.
Sorry you asked your question?
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Willie, I have elaborated elsewhere on what I think of Wojo right now. As far as these predictions and sideways versus upwards, I saw this as a rebuilding year even before Haanif left. I also optimistically thought that Froling would be a difference maker. Not what I wanted, but when I analyzed the team objectively before the season started, that is where arrived.
I wanted to see growth among the young players in preparation for 18-19. To me, that would be upward and not sideways. So, from a big picture perspective, I am not bitter and angry. Sure, individual losses are frustrating. I don't know if Wojo takes Marquette to the promised land, but his age and lineage says you would be a damned fool to fire him now.
Not asking you to be bitter or angry, just be realistic. We are not trending upward since our last 3 seasons have been 20-13, 19-13, and 19-13. This year with all Wojo's guys, and yet no dance in year 4. That is not trending upward, that is "going sideways". MU program has to be competing for BEast championships and making the dance frequently. Wojo has us mired in bottom tier of conference, and not making the dance. His recruiting is OK, but realistically, not good enough to be a stud program in Beast.
Many are tired of the excuses around this board for Wojo, and the performance of the program. So be realistic. In order for one to say we are trending upward, given all the excuses offered for Wojo, the team must have 23 plus wins next year, be top 2-3 in Beast and be a top 4 seed in the Dance. I am hopeful Wojo gets us there, but have not seen any progression yet to warrant that hope. That is why the blow torch should already be strapped to Wojo's ass.
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Not asking you to be bitter or angry, just be realistic. We are not trending upward since our last 3 seasons have been 20-13, 19-13, and 19-13. This year with all Wojo's guys, and yet no dance in year 4. That is not trending upward, that is "going sideways". MU program has to be competing for BEast championships and making the dance frequently. Wojo has us mired in bottom tier of conference, and not making the dance. His recruiting is OK, but realistically, not good enough to be a stud program in Beast.
Many are tired of the excuses around this board for Wojo, and the performance of the program. So be realistic. In order for one to say we are trending upward, given all the excuses offered for Wojo, the team must have 23 plus wins next year, be top 2-3 in Beast and be a top 4 seed in the Dance. I am hopeful Wojo gets us there, but have not seen any progression yet to warrant that hope. That is why the blow torch should already be strapped to Wojo's ass.
You really don't understand composite rankings and strength of schedule
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No. Not at all. We were only 1 of 5, Power 5 teams to be in the Top 20 in 3pt % and the Top 100 teams in Attempts. The others:
Purdue
Michigan State
Kansas
Villanova
LOL. Not quite our peers in W/L, NCAA seeding. So, as you can see there is a strong correlation between being a high volume and high 3-point shooting percentage team, and elite performance at the high major level.
Sorry you asked your question?
You get minus a thousand points for this