MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 27, 2017, 11:36:08 AM

Title: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 27, 2017, 11:36:08 AM
http://fox13now.com/2017/06/26/thurl-bailey-jr-dishes-an-assist-at-washingtons-union-station/

Came across my twitter feed, thought I would share.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: wadesworld on June 27, 2017, 11:41:18 AM
http://fox13now.com/2017/06/26/thurl-bailey-jr-dishes-an-assist-at-washingtons-union-station/

Came across my twitter feed, thought I would share.

The author should probably update his article with the most accurate information.  Bailey found a girl and married her on his mission and plans to follow in the footsteps of former Marquette basketball should've-been-star John "Magic" Dawson and play basketball at Liberty University in order to be close to his wife.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: We R Final Four on June 27, 2017, 12:03:06 PM
A lot of Elders in that story.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 27, 2017, 12:04:32 PM
Looks straight out of The Book of Mormon stage play.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: SaveOD238 on June 27, 2017, 12:19:31 PM
I don't care if they're Mormon, Jew, Muslim, or atheist...I'm glad that Marquette recruits high quality people to represent the school on the big stage of college basketball.  It doesn't hurt if they can hoop a little bit too
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: naginiF on June 27, 2017, 02:36:43 PM
I don't care if they're Mormon, Jew, Muslim, or atheist...I'm glad that Marquette recruits high quality people to represent the school on the big stage of college basketball.  It doesn't hurt if they can hoop a little bit too

I'm sure TAMU got the original from the same place i did but just to go full circle.......Wojo agrees.....

Steve Wojciechowski‏Verified account
@steve_wojo

Steve Wojciechowski Retweeted FOX 13 News Utah
A terrific story on @brendanbailey35 whose outstanding talent on the floor is only exceeded by his character off it! Great job Brendan!
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 27, 2017, 02:49:52 PM
Sincerely hope the money given isn't spent on drugs and alcohol.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Dawson Rental on June 27, 2017, 02:55:18 PM
Sincerely hope the money given isn't spent on drugs and alcohol.

Worse, coffee.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 27, 2017, 02:58:37 PM
Sincerely hope the money given isn't spent on drugs and alcohol.

yeah, maybe Brendan should have drug tested him first
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 27, 2017, 03:33:33 PM
We all have run into these scenerios. Depending on where you live, some more frequently than others. Personally, I very rarely give money. Rather, in a situation like Brendan's, I would have told the gentleman to wait right here while I go up to the cafeteria line and purchase something like  a sandwich, chips, and a beverage and hand it to him. I have done this on several occasions. Unfortunately, some have refused the meal insisting they have food, but as one put it, need money to "wash my clothes."
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: brewcity77 on June 27, 2017, 03:36:20 PM
Looks straight out of The Book of Mormon stage play.

I couldn't help but chuckle at seeing the Elder mentions.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 27, 2017, 03:46:56 PM
Sincerely hope the money given isn't spent on drugs and alcohol.

While there are some people who panhandle to support an alcohol or drug habit, the vast majority don't. The most common thing panhandled money is used for is food. However, giving money directly to panhandlers is not the best way to help them as it only offers short term relief for immediate needs. Best option is to donate to various programs that help the homeless get off the street. Feed a man a fish and such.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Marcus92 on June 27, 2017, 03:48:37 PM
Nice story. His heart's in the right place — but I never give money to anyone on the street. According to the Milwaukee Police Dept. and the District Attorney's Office, 70% of panhandlers aren't homeless. The Milwaukee Common Council suggests that giving to charity makes more of a difference.

http://milwaukeenns.org/2016/07/29/city-takes-stance-against-panhandling-with-keep-the-change-initiative/ (http://milwaukeenns.org/2016/07/29/city-takes-stance-against-panhandling-with-keep-the-change-initiative/)
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: We R Final Four on June 27, 2017, 03:56:39 PM
"MU recruit gives to local Food Bank--after all it was the responsible thing to do."

I'm Guessing local Fox News wouldn't have jumped on that news story.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: barfolomew on June 27, 2017, 04:23:11 PM
That boy is not going to do ANYTHING for his neck size by eating crappy train station salads!
Todd Smith needs to stage an intervention!

(http://www.iron-neck.com/uploads/6/3/3/7/63376579/lllr-gif-final_orig.gif)
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 27, 2017, 04:56:28 PM
I couldn't help but chuckle at seeing the Elder mentions.

Shared a bus with a group of Mormon missionaries once. My buddy commented that it was weird they all had the same first name.....
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: mug644 on June 27, 2017, 04:58:06 PM
We all have run into these scenerios. Depending on where you live, some more frequently than others. Personally, I very rarely give money. Rather, in a situation like Brendan's, I would have told the gentleman to wait right here while I go up to the cafeteria line and purchase something like  a sandwich, chips, and a beverage and hand it to him. I have done this on several occasions. Unfortunately, some have refused the meal insisting they have food, but as one put it, need money to "wash my clothes."

And what was your reason for not believing that person? Were you sure they didn't have food? Were you sure their clothes didn't need washing?

Sometimes our assumptions may not be correct.

Including mine about your assumptions.

To anticipate some reactions, I’m simply saying that we (and I am including myself) may make presumptions about the conditions and needs of people who are asking for our help. Our “guesses” as to what they need and/or what they might do with money we give them can demonstrate a degree of disrespect for that person. Why do we not take them at their word? How do we know what their real needs are? Why do we know better than they?

To complement an earlier comment, "Feed a man a fish and such,” I might say “walk a mile in his shoes and such”.

Both are useful sentiments.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Jockey on June 27, 2017, 05:30:25 PM
yeah, maybe Brendan should have drug tested him first

I guess some people think we need to put conditions on our charitable giving :-\
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 27, 2017, 05:39:47 PM
And what was your reason for not believing that person? Were you sure they didn't have food? Were you sure their clothes didn't need washing?

Sometimes our assumptions may not be correct.

Including mine about your assumptions.

To anticipate some reactions, I’m simply saying that we (and I am including myself) may make presumptions about the conditions and needs of people who are asking for our help. Our “guesses” as to what they need and/or what they might do with money we give them can demonstrate a degree of disrespect for that person. Why do we not take them at their word? How do we know what their real needs are? Why do we know better than they?

To complement an earlier comment, "Feed a man a fish and such,” I might say “walk a mile in his shoes and such”.

Both are useful sentiments.

I was at the Port Authority Bus Station in Manhattan and a stranger asked me for money. I asked him what for? He said he wasted to wash his clothes that he had in a bag he was carrying. I proceeded out the door and turned and told him to follow. Just around the corner was a laudromat and I walked in ready to pay to have his laundry washed. He just kept on walking. Another time I was in the city I gave a waitress Fifty and told her to let the lady have what ever she wants and pack her a sandwich for later and whatever was left over she could keep as a tip. They both were grateful. I was not assuming anything in each instance. I just did not want my money going for no good.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: tower912 on June 27, 2017, 07:11:52 PM
I give money to the charities and give money to panhandlers.    I spend enough time running calls on the homeless that I am 100% aware of where the money might go to.   There are several whom I run on so often that we know each other on a first name basis and I know their drink of choice.   Meh.   I am throwing a couple of shekels to one of God's children.   What they do with it is between them and God. 
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Sir Lawrence on June 27, 2017, 07:39:01 PM
A couple of weeks ago I'm walking across the Wells Street bridge over the Milwaukee river. A clearly destitute dude in a wheelchair is rolling toward me.

"Sir, I peed myself and need bus fare to get home and change."  I rarely pull out the wallet for panhandlers, but this fella either dropped a drink in his lap or did indeed pee his drawers.  So I pull out my wallet and discover Mrs. Sir Lawrence must have taken a cash "loan" before I went to the office.  All is left is an oddball two dollar bill that is a gag from a sheepshead game. I give it to him and he yells at me after I drop it in his lap "sir, bus fare is two and a quarter!" 

All I could do was laugh.  But was he steamed.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 27, 2017, 07:54:16 PM
Nice story. His heart's in the right place — but I never give money to anyone on the street. According to the Milwaukee Police Dept. and the District Attorney's Office, 70% of panhandlers aren't homeless. The Milwaukee Common Council suggests that giving to charity makes more of a difference.

http://milwaukeenns.org/2016/07/29/city-takes-stance-against-panhandling-with-keep-the-change-initiative/ (http://milwaukeenns.org/2016/07/29/city-takes-stance-against-panhandling-with-keep-the-change-initiative/)

Tons of legit reasons for not giving money to panhandlers and I know (and believe) them all. But I'm weak and a sucker - I give em money anyway.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 27, 2017, 07:58:07 PM
Some of y'all are so cynical. I agree with tower, if they use money they get from panhandling on the street for booze, that's there choice, I'm not bothered by that.

I'm mostly just surprised people still carry cash around. I haven't used anything but a debit card in at least a month.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 27, 2017, 08:23:35 PM
Some of y'all are so cynical. I agree with tower, if they use money they get from panhandling on the street for booze, that's there choice, I'm not bothered by that.

I'm mostly just surprised people still carry cash around. I haven't used anything but a debit card in at least a month.


Man o' man, come back in 'bout 15 years when you have some seasonin' in ya. Bet you'll sing a different toone, hey?
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 27, 2017, 08:30:49 PM

Man o' man, come back in 'bout 15 years when you have some seasonin' in ya. Bet you'll sing a different toone, hey?

Probably not.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 27, 2017, 08:32:33 PM
Make millennials great again, ai na?
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: lurch91 on June 27, 2017, 09:07:58 PM
Some of y'all are so cynical. I agree with tower, if they use money they get from panhandling on the street for booze, that's there choice, I'm not bothered by that.

I'm mostly just surprised people still carry cash around. I haven't used anything but a debit card in at least a month.

Been about 15 years since I've regularly carried cash on me.  But it's ok, I hAve no doubt that panhandoers will soon be able to take debit and credit cards...
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 27, 2017, 11:00:14 PM
I remember one dude in Mikwaukee who always claimed he ran out of gas and needed money. Used to see him when I'd go to my club or Third Ward. Must have had the worst luck ever, always running out of gas.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: brewcity77 on June 28, 2017, 05:10:16 AM

Man o' man, come back in 'bout 15 years when you have some seasonin' in ya. Bet you'll sing a different toone, hey?

It has nothing to do with seasoning, and like tower, I've seen exactly what money can go for. If I give someone money, what they do with it is their choice.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: jficke13 on June 28, 2017, 08:45:25 AM
[...]
I'm mostly just surprised people still carry cash around. I haven't used anything but a debit card in at least a month.

OT, but is there any benefit to using a debit card? I have one because my bank sent me one, but I don't think I've used it even once. No rewards points. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 28, 2017, 08:47:10 AM
OT, but is there any benefit to using a debit card? I have one because my bank sent me one, but I don't think I've used it even once. No rewards points. Am I missing something?

No penalty to get cash.

I'm mostly just surprised people still carry cash around. I haven't used anything but a debit card in at least a month.

What do you do at cash only bars?
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on June 28, 2017, 09:25:48 AM
First of all, I tip my hat to young Bailey for helping another person.

I live in New Orleans for half the year.  There is a large population of homeless, train jumpers, gutter punks and professional beggars.

There are good shelters that provide beds and food for them.

While we have compassion for the down on their luck homeless, we have no sympathy for the train hoppers and gutter punks, who choose not to work but live off of the tourists. 

On a day in April we had lunch on a balcony over looking Jackson Square.  We watched a young man set up a bucket and started tap dancing to music. 

During the hour we watched tourists put in $70 + or - in his bucket.  When he left, he lit a cigarette and pulled his smart phone out of his pocket and walked away.

Why work when you can make $70/hour begging?

Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: SaveOD238 on June 28, 2017, 09:53:07 AM
On a day in April we had lunch on a balcony over looking Jackson Square.  We watched a young man set up a bucket and started tap dancing to music. 

During the hour we watched tourists put in $70 + or - in his bucket.  When he left, he lit a cigarette and pulled his smart phone out of his pocket and walked away.

Why work when you can make $70/hour begging?

So he performed for an audience for an hour and they paid him?  Sounds like work to me!

Plus, it's cash, so none of those pesky taxes
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: onepost on June 28, 2017, 09:57:25 AM
I never give cash to homeless or "homeless".
But occasionally I'll buy someone a meal so at least I know it's a good use of my money.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 28, 2017, 01:21:32 PM
On a day in April we had lunch on a balcony over looking Jackson Square.  We watched a young man set up a bucket and started tap dancing to music. 

During the hour we watched tourists put in $70 + or - in his bucket.  When he left, he lit a cigarette and pulled his smart phone out of his pocket and walked away.

Why work when you can make $70/hour begging?
How do you think this is panhandling??  There are tons of street performers, with I'm sure NO being a prime spot.  Can YOU tap dance for an hour?
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 28, 2017, 02:18:55 PM
First of all, I tip my hat to young Bailey for helping another person.

I live in New Orleans for half the year.  There is a large population of homeless, train jumpers, gutter punks and professional beggars.

There are good shelters that provide beds and food for them.

While we have compassion for the down on their luck homeless, we have no sympathy for the train hoppers and gutter punks, who choose not to work but live off of the tourists. 

On a day in April we had lunch on a balcony over looking Jackson Square.  We watched a young man set up a bucket and started tap dancing to music. 

During the hour we watched tourists put in $70 + or - in his bucket.  When he left, he lit a cigarette and pulled his smart phone out of his pocket and walked away.

Why work when you can make $70/hour begging?

For all we know he tap dances professionally on the side. If I were to take my bagpipes downtown and play for an hour I'm sure I could make some money (or get stuff thrown at me) would that be begging as well? It's likely a side gig to make a quick buck between shows/lessons or whatever
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 28, 2017, 02:34:09 PM
Kind of reminds me of the day after our marriage in NO when we left the Hotel Monteleone looking for a caricature artist near Jackson Square and a damn sax player was on the sidewalk outside Café du Monde begging for $$$ and playing that annoying saxophone. I stood Scoop-strong and didn't give him a penny for drugs. He did thank us for the $10 and a latte though.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: AZWarrior on June 28, 2017, 02:54:46 PM
Worse, coffee.

Oh, the Demon Latte!
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Benny B on June 28, 2017, 02:59:37 PM
Imma just gonna cut to the chase on this one.  All of you guys suck.  S-U-C-K suck.  The act is done, and Mr. Bailey won't be influenced by your words now or in the future.  So what good

Want to discuss the merits of panhandling and the political metaphors?  Take it to the Politics board.  At least start a new thread... don't simply expect Rocky or Topper to clean up the mess you're making.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 28, 2017, 03:08:49 PM
How do you think this is panhandling??  There are tons of street performers, with I'm sure NO being a prime spot.  Can YOU tap dance for an hour?

a guy I met staying at my hostel in Prague was making his away across Europe busking, using a marionette puppet and a boombox.  He did it until he he made enough to more on to the next city.  What the hell is wrong with that? He's earning the money by using his talents (and not taking them to South Beach). Man, people her have some huge sticks up their asses. ::)
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on June 28, 2017, 03:41:07 PM
a guy I met staying at my hostel in Prague was making his away across Europe busking, using a marionette puppet and a boombox.  He did it until he he made enough to more on to the next city.  What the hell is wrong with that? He's earning the money by using his talents (and not taking them to South Beach). Man, people her have some huge sticks up their asses. ::)
Agree. Dude was performing, using a skill few possess, for an hour.  Who would consider that begging?
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 28, 2017, 06:43:05 PM

There are good shelters that provide beds and food for them.


I can't speak for New Orleans but I know in my city there are not nearly enough beds in the shelters.  Many cities like San Francisco and Seattle also have populations of "working homeless" who have been priced out of housing (particularly in Seattle due to condo conversions which San Fran had to cap on an annual basis) and don't make enough to get a place to live where they can still get to and from work. 

Sure, there are the "urban campers" but getting off the streets for the legit homeless is easier said than done.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: MU82 on June 28, 2017, 10:25:31 PM
Agree. Dude was performing, using a skill few possess, for an hour.  Who would consider that begging?

Agreed.

A friend of mine is the front man for a local band. They play coffee shops, wine bars, beer places, etc. They work for tips, have the tip jar sitting right out there.

I'm not sure what the difference is.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 29, 2017, 09:52:03 AM
First of all, I tip my hat to young Bailey for helping another person.

I live in New Orleans for half the year.  There is a large population of homeless, train jumpers, gutter punks and professional beggars.

There are good shelters that provide beds and food for them.


I know here in MKE there are NOT enough shelters. They advertise "Just call 211" of you need shelter. I know some who have been down on their luck that had to call 211 and were told every time that there were no room/beds available. Not very helpful when it's 10 degrees outside.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: brewcity77 on June 29, 2017, 10:49:08 AM
211 is a good resource, but it's very stressed. Understaffed, so when you call, expect very long wait times. They're good at what they do and can connect people with resources, but it's not a quick process.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Jockey on June 29, 2017, 12:13:59 PM
First of all, I tip my hat to young Bailey for helping another person.

I live in New Orleans for half the year.  There is a large population of homeless, train jumpers, gutter punks and professional beggars.

There are good shelters that provide beds and food for them.

While we have compassion for the down on their luck homeless, we have no sympathy for the train hoppers and gutter punks, who choose not to work but live off of the tourists. 

On a day in April we had lunch on a balcony over looking Jackson Square.  We watched a young man set up a bucket and started tap dancing to music. 

During the hour we watched tourists put in $70 + or - in his bucket.  When he left, he lit a cigarette and pulled his smart phone out of his pocket and walked away.

Why work when you can make $70/hour begging?

Do you and the Orange Pig get together to decide what derogatory names you want to use for the day?

From now on, the only human whom I will associate with the term "gutter punk" is you.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Litehouse on June 29, 2017, 01:00:18 PM
This thread has clearly gone off track.
But is the term gutter punk really offensive?  Seems like that's more of a philosophical lifestyle choice to me.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: brewcity77 on June 29, 2017, 01:08:14 PM
This thread has clearly gone off track.
But is the term gutter punk really offensive?  Seems like that's more of a philosophical lifestyle choice to me.

As Stretch used it, it was clearly meant to be. Having spent a good portion of my life hanging out in the punk community, I don't personally find it offensive, but I think it's one of those terms where the usage is perceived differently based on who's using it.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: dw3dw3dw3 on June 29, 2017, 01:09:42 PM
Does anyone know the typical schedule of a someone on a Mormon mission? Is playing basketball/training for an hour or two a day even possible? Just wondering if we should be expecting a 20y/old who's been working on his game for 2 years in private or a 20y/old who's going to need some time to shake the rust off to get back to a top 75 RSCI hs recruit level.
 
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: brewcity77 on June 29, 2017, 01:28:23 PM
This article (https://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2015/5/9/8564195/guide-what-athletes-do-on-lds-mormon-missions-trips-hint-not-professional-training-or-weightlifting) is the best thing I found on the subject. There is some time set aside for working out, but missionaries are on a fixed food income ($200/month) so it's tough to have a solid nutritional diet, and also tough to get much time for exercise. Remember, the missionary must also stay together with his partner, so if the partner doesn't want to get up at 5:30 to get an extra hour in at the gym, the athlete also isn't getting that time.

Some of the other stuff I read was sort of hit or miss. Some athletes feel it helps, mostly from a maturity standpoint. Others seem to feel it hinders development because there isn't time to stay in shape and it is pretty much a complete break in your athletic education.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: dgies9156 on June 29, 2017, 01:50:16 PM
I really find much of this conversation kinda unfortunate.

Jesuit educated people are "Men and Women for Others." Mr. Bailey showed the best of what we are supposed to be about. If that's a typical Mormon, then maybe we Catholics need to learn something! I don't know whether he debated how the money would be used. Rather, I suspect he saw a person in need and did what he could at the time to help. That's called living the Gospels.

If you read the Gospels, Jesus wasn't educated at the Israelite version of Harvard, nor did he request a meeting with Pilate, Caesar or any other luminaries of his time. He hung out with the poor, the downtrodden and the folks society forgot. Yes, that's the prostitutes and tax collectors. I'm sure Jesus saw more than a few homeless in his day and if I had to guess, Jesus would have been far more likely to act like Mr. Bailey than any of the folks in this room who question how the homeless spend money.

Whether any of us gives or doesn't give to panhandlers is beside the point. We should congratulate Mr. Bailey on representing of the values we hold dear at Marquette. We should find a means in each our souls to emulate the overall love for a fellow person that Mr. Bailey showed.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: tower912 on June 29, 2017, 03:36:41 PM
Yup.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on June 29, 2017, 04:52:32 PM
I'm mostly just surprised people still carry cash around. I haven't used anything but a debit card in at least a month.

Same. I almost never carry cash. And if I do, it's gone immediately.

It's an age thing.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Newsdreams on June 29, 2017, 07:43:13 PM
I really find much of this conversation kinda unfortunate.

Jesuit educated people are "Men and Women for Others." Mr. Bailey showed the best of what we are supposed to be about. If that's a typical Mormon, then maybe we Catholics need to learn something! I don't know whether he debated how the money would be used. Rather, I suspect he saw a person in need and did what he could at the time to help. That's called living the Gospels.

If you read the Gospels, Jesus wasn't educated at the Israelite version of Harvard, nor did he request a meeting with Pilate, Caesar or any other luminaries of his time. He hung out with the poor, the downtrodden and the folks society forgot. Yes, that's the prostitutes and tax collectors. I'm sure Jesus saw more than a few homeless in his day and if I had to guess, Jesus would have been far more likely to act like Mr. Bailey than any of the folks in this room who question how the homeless spend money.

Whether any of us gives or doesn't give to panhandlers is beside the point. We should congratulate Mr. Bailey on representing of the values we hold dear at Marquette. We should find a means in each our souls to emulate the overall love for a fellow person that Mr. Bailey showed.
The purpose of the nativity story is that he was born homeless
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: source? on June 30, 2017, 12:05:13 PM
OT, but is there any benefit to using a debit card? I have one because my bank sent me one, but I don't think I've used it even once. No rewards points. Am I missing something?

Most situations that require cash you can use a debit card, the ones you can't there is usually an ATM nearby. Cash gets stolen and it's gone. Debit card gets stolen, cancel it and get a new one.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on June 30, 2017, 12:12:32 PM
Most situations that require cash you can use a debit card, the ones you can't there is usually an ATM nearby. Cash gets stolen and it's gone. Debit card gets stolen, cancel it and get a new one.

Not all grocery stores accept credit cards.

Woodman's accepts debit cards but not credit cards. Aldi only started accepting credit cards in the last year or so.

You can also make cash withdrawals without a fee when you use a debit card at certain stores.  A credit card would typically charge a fee/interest on cash advances.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on July 02, 2017, 11:26:33 AM
While car was being serviced ,the shuttle driver and several passengers and i discussed the panhandlets on every corner. The driver told us of a BMW he was washing after service and when he opened the trunk ther were dozens of the signs they use of every size and shape andcondition.
When in Portland once a homeless guy asled me for a meal to "sober him up".
I took him i to McDonalds and fed him .thought that was legit.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: vogue65 on July 02, 2017, 01:04:05 PM
I really find much of this conversation kinda unfortunate.

Jesuit educated people are "Men and Women for Others." Mr. Bailey showed the best of what we are supposed to be about. If that's a typical Mormon, then maybe we Catholics need to learn something! I don't know whether he debated how the money would be used. Rather, I suspect he saw a person in need and did what he could at the time to help. That's called living the Gospels.

If you read the Gospels, Jesus wasn't educated at the Israelite version of Harvard, nor did he request a meeting with Pilate, Caesar or any other luminaries of his time. He hung out with the poor, the downtrodden and the folks society forgot. Yes, that's the prostitutes and tax collectors. I'm sure Jesus saw more than a few homeless in his day and if I had to guess, Jesus would have been far more likely to act like Mr. Bailey than any of the folks in this room who question how the homeless spend money.

Whether any of us gives or doesn't give to panhandlers is beside the point. We should congratulate Mr. Bailey on representing of the values we hold dear at Marquette. We should find a means in each our souls to emulate the overall love for a fellow person that Mr. Bailey showed.

Likewise, and what does the current Pope have to say on the subject?

Two extremes, the Mormons and the Salvation Army, take your pick.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: fjm on July 02, 2017, 01:09:21 PM
Once gave a kid about early 30's on the side of the street with his dog a $20 spot cause I felt real bad.

Kid you not, next day dude rolls into the ER hammered drunk with same clothes on except with a brand spanking new Yankees hat on with the stickers and price tags still on it.

I got played hard  I've changed to now making ziplock baggies with granola bar, 3 mints and a small bottled water in each. No more giving money for me.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Dawson Rental on July 03, 2017, 04:19:08 PM
Agree. Dude was performing, using a skill few possess, for an hour.  Who would consider that begging?

Actually, it was probably paid rehearsal.  Why pay for rehearsal space when you can get rehearsal space that pays.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: keefe on July 03, 2017, 05:42:12 PM
Worse, coffee.

Even worse: glutens
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: keefe on July 03, 2017, 05:50:58 PM
While there are some people who panhandle to support an alcohol or drug habit, the vast majority don't. The most common thing panhandled money is used for is food. However, giving money directly to panhandlers is not the best way to help them as it only offers short term relief for immediate needs. Best option is to donate to various programs that help the homeless get off the street. Feed a man a fish and such.

Not sure of your source but I am active in Congregations For the Homeless (CFH) which is an eastside Seattle program that not only feeds and shelters the homeless but provides a support system for getting people off of the streets and into employment and stable housing.

For every person we intake there are at least 10 who refuse the help. There is one reason for this refusal: they reject the requirement for personal responsibility. We prohibit alcohol, tobacco, and drugs and most of those who eschew our services have a problem with these restrictions. Sadly, the vast majority of those choosing to remain on the streets are unwilling to give up their heroin habit. 

The vast majority of pan handlers have drug habits. This is not an opinion. I know this from working with CFH.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 03, 2017, 09:10:10 PM
Not sure of your source but I am active in Congregations For the Homeless (CFH) which is an eastside Seattle program that not only feeds and shelters the homeless but provides a support system for getting people off of the streets and into employment and stable housing.

For every person we intake there are at least 10 who refuse the help. There is one reason for this refusal: they reject the requirement for personal responsibility. We prohibit alcohol, tobacco, and drugs and most of those who eschew our services have a problem with these restrictions. Sadly, the vast majority of those choosing to remain on the streets are unwilling to give up their heroin habit. 

The vast majority of pan handlers have drug habits. This is not an opinion. I know this from working with CFH.

It might not be an opinion, but its a very skewed result. Highest number I can remember seeing for % of homeless who abuse drugs is 26% and that was from a study in 2009. Most are lower. It seems your group works with an abnormal pocket of the population.

You also have your cause and effect backwards. Drug abuse very rarely leads to poverty. But poverty is a huge risk factor for drug abuse. I don't know your group but I would be willing to bet most of the drug abusers you encounter were in poverty long before they used drugs.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: B. McBannerson on July 04, 2017, 11:33:06 AM
Not sure of your source but I am active in Congregations For the Homeless (CFH) which is an eastside Seattle program that not only feeds and shelters the homeless but provides a support system for getting people off of the streets and into employment and stable housing.

For every person we intake there are at least 10 who refuse the help. There is one reason for this refusal: they reject the requirement for personal responsibility. We prohibit alcohol, tobacco, and drugs and most of those who eschew our services have a problem with these restrictions. Sadly, the vast majority of those choosing to remain on the streets are unwilling to give up their heroin habit. 

The vast majority of pan handlers have drug habits. This is not an opinion. I know this from working with CFH.

40% to 50% per this website, including alcohol and drugs combined.  You are doing God's work. Bless you.

https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/homelessness/
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: brewcity77 on July 04, 2017, 12:39:26 PM
40% to 50% per this website, including alcohol and drugs combined.  You are doing God's work. Bless you.

https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/homelessness/

Which is still not a "vast majority" by any form of accounting. Based on my experiences, the 40% number seems about right, though I'd guess the majority of those are alcohol. Alcohol is far more prevalent among our homeless population here than drugs. The vast majority of drugs users I personally see have jobs and homes, and that includes heroin users. Of the 12 I've personally had in the past 5 work shifts (including today), 11 were employed and had homes.

This probably isn't necessarily the place for this discussion, but while heroin and other opiates are no doubt a problem of epidemic proportions, the homeless seem to abuse alcohol more frequently. I'm sure that ease of access helps that.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: forgetful on July 04, 2017, 12:44:59 PM
40% to 50% per this website, including alcohol and drugs combined.  You are doing God's work. Bless you.

https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/homelessness/

Your link doesn't provide any support for their numbers.  They through out claims that studies concluded those numbers, but do not provide a citation.  Not a good source to support your assertion.  But as Brewcity said, 40% seems reasonable when combining drugs and alcohol. 


The more important statistic is that over 1/3 of all homeless people suffer from severe mental illness.  Very often these people have no good avenue for treatment and resort to self medication.  For homeless veterans this number can rise above 70%. 


This shows the danger in pointing to drug/alcohol.  The problem is mental illness and we do not like to talk about that problem in America. 


If you want to better understand homelessness, buy a group of them a meal and sit and listen to their stories.  It will change your perspective.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: brewcity77 on July 04, 2017, 01:27:57 PM
The problem is mental illness and we do not like to talk about that problem in America.

Just like we don't like to talk about the actual root of the opiate epidemic. It's getting worse because doctors are prescribing more opiates. What starts as a simple percocet prescription becomes an addiction, and once the script runs out, the newly created addict must choose between withdrawals or finding another fix.

Illegal pills are expensive so many turn to heroin. It's often more potent and cheaper, but also more dangerous because you never really know what's in it. Our societal reaction is to blame the addicts. When they overdose, medical personnel give them Narcan, monitor them for a few hours, and cut them loose again.

None of this actually addresses the real problem. It doesn't stop the doctors from prescribing more opiates and creating more addicts and it doesn't get the addicts the help they need to get clean. It would be a massive financial cost to address the root of the problem, both by lessening the income for doctors and pharmaceutical companies that profit off the prescriptions and the treatment costs for addicts that would likely need at least weeks if not months of inpatient care to actually get clean, with continued follow-up once they complete rehab.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: keefe on July 04, 2017, 02:06:19 PM
Just like we don't like to talk about the actual root of the opiate epidemic. It's getting worse because doctors are prescribing more opiates. What starts as a simple percocet prescription becomes an addiction, and once the script runs out, the newly created addict must choose between withdrawals or finding another fix.

Illegal pills are expensive so many turn to heroin. It's often more potent and cheaper, but also more dangerous because you never really know what's in it. Our societal reaction is to blame the addicts. When they overdose, medical personnel give them Narcan, monitor them for a few hours, and cut them loose again.

None of this actually addresses the real problem. It doesn't stop the doctors from prescribing more opiates and creating more addicts and it doesn't get the addicts the help they need to get clean. It would be a massive financial cost to address the root of the problem, both by lessening the income for doctors and pharmaceutical companies that profit off the prescriptions and the treatment costs for addicts that would likely need at least weeks if not months of inpatient care to actually get clean, with continued follow-up once they complete rehab.

In the teams we were constantly battered and bruised. It would have been far too easy to hit the opiates as the aches, pains, and injuries were recurring and severe. And on an op there was no going to sick call. Instead, we gobbled Motrin (Ranger M&M's) by the handful.

As a group, JSOC/AFSOC guys tend to be smart and disciplined with an exceedingly high threshold for pain. But even that population can fall into the trap of opiate addiction.

Imagine the struggle for those without the specific training for dealing with pain and stress. Little wonder that people unaccustomed to chronic pain, typical suburban office workers, can find the lure of immediate relief irresistible. Add in the incremental weight of homelessness and it is easy to envision the downward spiral. 
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: brewcity77 on July 04, 2017, 02:16:19 PM
In the teams we were constantly battered and bruised. It would have been far too easy to hit the opiates as the aches, pains, and injuries were recurring and severe. And on an op there was no going to sick call. Instead, we gobbled Motrin (Ranger M&M's) by the handful.

As a group, JSOC/AFSOC guys tend to be smart and disciplined with an exceedingly high threshold for pain. But even that population can fall into the trap of opiate addiction.

Imagine the struggle for those without the specific training for dealing with pain and stress. Little wonder that people unaccustomed to chronic pain, typical suburban office workers, can find the lure of immediate relief irresistible. Add in the incremental weight of homelessness and it is easy to envision the downward spiral.

Agreed on all counts, and there's no easy solutions. I expect it will get worse before it gets better.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: keefe on July 04, 2017, 02:17:17 PM
The purpose of the nativity story is that he was born homeless

The Nativity was chronicled by Luke but the imagery was actually invented by St Francis of Assisi.

The actual meaning of the nativity can be found in 1 Peter 1:3-4.

I find it interesting that the Nativity, a genuine expression of hope, love, and faith, is seen by many as an offensive symbol of prerogative and privilege.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: keefe on July 04, 2017, 02:19:21 PM
I haven't used anything but a debit card in at least a month.

Must seem odd stuffing debit cards in G-strings...
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: keefe on July 04, 2017, 02:26:03 PM
It might not be an opinion, but its a very skewed result. Highest number I can remember seeing for % of homeless who abuse drugs is 26% and that was from a study in 2009. Most are lower. It seems your group works with an abnormal pocket of the population.

You also have your cause and effect backwards. Drug abuse very rarely leads to poverty. But poverty is a huge risk factor for drug abuse. I don't know your group but I would be willing to bet most of the drug abusers you encounter were in poverty long before they used drugs.

Not sure if the community I serve as a volunteer is skewed or not. Seattle, which because of its tolerance for the homeless, has a large population. It is also one that suffers from a very high percentage of substance abuse.

I have no idea of causality. My volunteer efforts specifically focus on working with veterans to help bring them the resources to which they are entitled.

I do not ever ask the how, when, or why. My efforts are aimed at education and facilitation. Everything else is parlor talk.
 
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: tower912 on July 04, 2017, 06:39:12 PM
Early in my career, I said some unflattering things about one of our 'frequent fliers'.     I was brought up short by my officer who asked me if I knew why he never said anything negative about our homeless population.    I didn't.    He said that based on a tattoo on the homeless gentleman's arm, he was in Viet Nam about the same time as my officer.    He said that he knew way too many of his former comrades in arms who had ended up homeless.    And, but for the grace of God, that could be him.     So, he would never criticize the homeless.
    Having had my ass handed to me, I resolved to never judge, only to treat to the best of my ability, because unless I spent a lot of time with an individual, I was unlikely to know how they ended up where they did. 
    Opioids.   They are a scourge.    Like brewcity, I have been involved in several administrations of Narcan.    It's funny.   When a diabetic suffering low blood sugar who has been acting out has their sugar brought up to normal levels, they are normally apologetic.   When an opioid user who has overdosed receives Narcan, it is my experience that they come out of it pissed off and wanting to fight.   They nearly always vehemently deny using and some come around to admitting they were using and being mad at  us for spoiling their buzz.   
   I don't know what the answer is.   Since the beginning of time, humans have sought mind altering substances and better pain killers.   
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: MU82 on July 04, 2017, 06:48:26 PM
Everything else is parlor talk.
 

My 91-year-old, Southside Chicago father-in-law calls a sofa a "parlor set," as in ... "Get dat dog offa da parlor set!"
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: keefe on July 06, 2017, 01:17:50 AM
My 91-year-old, Southside Chicago father-in-law calls a sofa a "parlor set," as in ... "Get dat dog offa da parlor set!"

What do they call a sofa in Davenport?
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: dgies9156 on July 06, 2017, 08:15:50 AM
What do they call a sofa in Davenport?

As a former Quad Citian, they call it a sofa.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: mikekinsellaMVP on July 06, 2017, 09:02:33 AM
As a former Quad Citian, they call it a sofa.

In Morgantown, they call it kindling.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: fjm on July 06, 2017, 10:19:57 AM
Brew and Tower make great points. The Opiate Epidemic is out of control. And it is solely on providers.

That said, the group i work with and for is discouraging the distribution of Opiates and I think the new DEA memo that went out about a year ago does a great job addressing the issue. Along with the new Wisconsin Prescribers Network where you can see every med a pt has been prescribed and how much.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 06, 2017, 10:33:26 AM
Sounds great, but it will never work. Providers aren't going to be the bad cop. Frankly, I prescribe what I know will be effective for the procedure concluded. Nothing more and nothing less.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: keefe on July 06, 2017, 12:02:42 PM
Sounds great, but it will never work. Providers aren't going to be the bad cop. Frankly, I prescribe what I know will be effective for the procedure concluded. Nothing more and nothing less.

AFSOC docs might dispense opiates for post-procedure care but typically did not. They almost never dispensed them for chronic pain as the likelihood of getting hooked was too great.

As I said, we ate Motrin like candy. Eschewing hard meds is almost a badge of honor for guys who live by the warrior ethos.

JSOC has an intense workout culture but also gathers around bottles at the end of the day (if not deployed.) Substance abuse takes many forms and it is easy to find solace in a bottle from the physical and emotional aches and pains we carried. If opiate abuse was not a problem alcohol most certainly was.

Back in the day, MU had an intense drinking culture that started on Day One of Freshmen Orientation. Milwaukee was then an epicenter of beer production and Block Party set up was essentially trucks filled with kegs from Pabst, Schlitz, and Miller rolling up.

I saw several good guys drink themselves out of school. By the end of the very first semester at least 6 guys from McCormick 8 were gone.

Let's face it - Milwaukee in the dead of winter had little to offer kids on a budget besides drinking. I wonder how many people cultivated long-term problems from their days at Marquette. 
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: real chili 83 on July 06, 2017, 01:01:18 PM
This isn't an exclusively MU issue. 

With that said, I watched a guy do that sophomore year.  He ended up running away, and of all things, joined the military.  His wealthy father had to hire a PI to find him.  Came from an extremely prominent Wisconsin family too. 

We also had an ND transfer move across the hallway sophomore year.  His father had a building named after him at ND...that kind of prominent.  Dude took one of the bathroom mirrors from 10S to do lines in his room.  He didn't last too long either.  He probably transferred to Iowa State after that.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Newsdreams on July 06, 2017, 08:16:27 PM
AFSOC docs might dispense opiates for post-procedure care but typically did not. They almost never dispensed them for chronic pain as the likelihood of getting hooked was too great.

As I said, we ate Motrin like candy. Eschewing hard meds is almost a badge of honor for guys who live by the warrior ethos.

JSOC has an intense workout culture but also gathers around bottles at the end of the day (if not deployed.) Substance abuse takes many forms and it is easy to find solace in a bottle from the physical and emotional aches and pains we carried. If opiate abuse was not a problem alcohol most certainly was.

Back in the day, MU had an intense drinking culture that started on Day One of Freshmen Orientation. Milwaukee was then an epicenter of beer production and Block Party set up was essentially trucks filled with kegs from Pabst, Schlitz, and Miller rolling up.

I saw several good guys drink themselves out of school. By the end of the very first semester at least 6 guys from McCormick 8 were gone.

Let's face it - Milwaukee in the dead of winter had little to offer kids on a budget besides drinking. I wonder how many people cultivated long-term problems from their days at Marquette.
Drinking right now
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: real chili 83 on July 06, 2017, 09:17:53 PM
Mamajuana bro
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: real chili 83 on July 06, 2017, 09:18:56 PM
TAMU, how many in the hopper?  Triplets????
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 06, 2017, 10:16:10 PM
TAMU, how many in the hopper?  Triplets????

Been less than a month Chili man. I don't think Mrs. TAMU could even know at this point!
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: MU82 on July 06, 2017, 10:43:13 PM
TAMU, how many in the hopper?  Triplets????

I'm sure the TAMUs already have chosen names: MU82 (after me), MU83 (after my wife) and MU#1 (just because)!
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: dgies9156 on July 09, 2017, 09:52:15 PM
Back in the day, MU had an intense drinking culture that started on Day One of Freshmen Orientation. Milwaukee was then an epicenter of beer production and Block Party set up was essentially trucks filled with kegs from Pabst, Schlitz, and Miller rolling up.

I saw several good guys drink themselves out of school. By the end of the very first semester at least 6 guys from McCormick 8 were gone.

Let's face it - Milwaukee in the dead of winter had little to offer kids on a budget besides drinking. I wonder how many people cultivated long-term problems from their days at Marquette.

Boy you got that one right. The only thing in the dead of Milwaukee winters was MU basketball and beer.

All the things you discussed, I can vouch to as well. The problem was and is you have kids on their own for the first time in their lives. Up until now, many were sheltered and Mommy or Daddy made all their decisions. There are tempted for the first times and they have not cultivated an ability to say no.

The sad thing about raising the drinking age to 21 was that you moved it from the bars, where there was some control to houses and private parties, where there is virtually no control, no licensing and no bartenders taught to control excessive drinking. I understand there is as much drinking as there ever was on campus when the age was 21. It's just far more underground now.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: MUDPT on July 09, 2017, 10:09:46 PM
I will jump in to the opiate discussion to campaign for Physical Therapy.  Our hope is that by getting patients to Physical Therapy quickly, we can reduce the amount of opiate prescriptions.  In Wisconsin (and many other states), you can see a PT without a prescription (except if Medicare is your primary insurance). 
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Jockey on July 10, 2017, 02:56:47 PM
In Morgantown, they call it kindling.

I thought it was a lawn ornament.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Benny B on July 10, 2017, 04:34:27 PM
The sad thing about raising the drinking age to 21 was that you moved it from the bars, where there was some control to houses and private parties, where there is virtually no control, no licensing and no bartenders taught to control excessive drinking. I understand there is as much drinking as there ever was on campus when the age was 21. It's just far more underground now.

Fun fact: A 21 year-old drinking age benefits beer companies.  Or at least it used to before college kids were simply given a credit card that mommy and daddy paid off every month.... consider that college students' capacity for alcohol consumption was more often defined by $ rather than quantity.  For example if Johnny has $20 to spend on beer for the weekend, he is going to spend every cent of that $20. 

If Johnny spends $20 at the bar, let's assume he would get 8 beers; however, if he instead spent that $20 at the liquor store instead, he gets 24 instead.

Here's the key... the bars and liquor stores have the same distributor and what is paid to the distributor is the same whether you are a bar or a liquor store (rarely are there any "bulk" discounts, and if there are, it's minimal, like a few cents a can/bottle).  So the beer company's revenue is the same per bottle/can no matter where the consumer purchases it... so a beer company makes more money when the $20 is spent at the liquor store (on 24 beers) rather than at the bar (on 8).

Now ask anyone you know, and they will tell you that drinking at a bar is almost universally more preferable than drinking in a dorm room to a college-aged student... so given the choice, and a fixed amount of cash, less of Johnny's $20 will end up with the beer company.  But because drinking anywhere is more preferable than not drinking at all, if there was an external influence behind Johnny drinking in his dorm - say some minimum drinking age that precludes him from his first preference - then the beer companies will end up with more of Johnny's $20.

Next time you see a beer company's "21 means 21" advertisement, you'll know what their true motivation is.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: MarquetteDano on July 10, 2017, 04:48:12 PM
Fun fact: A 21 year-old drinking age benefits beer companies.  Or at least it used to before college kids were simply given a credit card that mommy and daddy paid off every month.... consider that college students' capacity for alcohol consumption was more often defined by $ rather than quantity.  For example if Johnny has $20 to spend on beer for the weekend, he is going to spend every cent of that $20. 

If Johnny spends $20 at the bar, let's assume he would get 8 beers; however, if he instead spent that $20 at the liquor store instead, he gets 24 instead.

Here's the key... the bars and liquor stores have the same distributor and what is paid to the distributor is the same whether you are a bar or a liquor store (rarely are there any "bulk" discounts, and if there are, it's minimal, like a few cents a can/bottle).  So the beer company's revenue is the same per bottle/can no matter where the consumer purchases it... so a beer company makes more money when the $20 is spent at the liquor store (on 24 beers) rather than at the bar (on 8).

Now ask anyone you know, and they will tell you that drinking at a bar is almost universally more preferable than drinking in a dorm room to a college-aged student... so given the choice, and a fixed amount of cash, less of Johnny's $20 will end up with the beer company.  But because drinking anywhere is more preferable than not drinking at all, if there was an external influence behind Johnny drinking in his dorm - say some minimum drinking age that precludes him from his first preference - then the beer companies will end up with more of Johnny's $20.

Next time you see a beer company's "21 means 21" advertisement, you'll know what their true motivation is.

Interesting theory.  I think demand is a little higher at a bar versus elsewhere,  so Johnny may be willing to drop $20 at a bar while $15 at a party/liquor store.  But even with that difference the number of units sold would still probably be higher at the party/liquor store versus the bar.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: NWarsh on July 10, 2017, 05:07:09 PM
Interesting theory.  I think demand is a little higher at a bar versus elsewhere,  so Johnny may be willing to drop $20 at a bar while $15 at a party/liquor store.  But even with that difference the number of units sold would still probably be higher at the party/liquor store versus the bar.

Yeah, too many variables to make this theory right.  What Benny is forgetting to take into account is the COGs impact on this.  The most profitable beer for beer companies are ones that have high margins (think most of your craft, FMBs, above premiums), obviously.  Now they want to push that in something with the lowest amount of COGS (kegs are 1/3 the cost of cans and 1/4 that of bottles).  This is why you will see all the sales people fighting for draft handles, that is where they really can make their largest amount of profit by pushing volume through on-premise draft sales.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Newsdreams on July 10, 2017, 09:44:22 PM
Fun fact: A 21 year-old drinking age benefits beer companies.  Or at least it used to before college kids were simply given a credit card that mommy and daddy paid off every month.... consider that college students' capacity for alcohol consumption was more often defined by $ rather than quantity.  For example if Johnny has $20 to spend on beer for the weekend, he is going to spend every cent of that $20. 

If Johnny spends $20 at the bar, let's assume he would get 8 beers; however, if he instead spent that $20 at the liquor store instead, he gets 24 instead.

Here's the key... the bars and liquor stores have the same distributor and what is paid to the distributor is the same whether you are a bar or a liquor store (rarely are there any "bulk" discounts, and if there are, it's minimal, like a few cents a can/bottle).  So the beer company's revenue is the same per bottle/can no matter where the consumer purchases it... so a beer company makes more money when the $20 is spent at the liquor store (on 24 beers) rather than at the bar (on 8).

Now ask anyone you know, and they will tell you that drinking at a bar is almost universally more preferable than drinking in a dorm room to a college-aged student... so given the choice, and a fixed amount of cash, less of Johnny's $20 will end up with the beer company.  But because drinking anywhere is more preferable than not drinking at all, if there was an external influence behind Johnny drinking in his dorm - say some minimum drinking age that precludes him from his first preference - then the beer companies will end up with more of Johnny's $20.

Next time you see a beer company's "21 means 21" advertisement, you'll know what their true motivation is.
As I recall while I was at MU the beer co's lobbied against increasing drinking age. Wasn't Wisconsin last state to increase drinking age? Still 18 down here, rum companies always lobby against increasing age.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: Benny B on July 11, 2017, 11:14:53 AM
Yeah, too many variables to make this theory right.  What Benny is forgetting to take into account is the COGs impact on this.  The most profitable beer for beer companies are ones that have high margins (think most of your craft, FMBs, above premiums), obviously.  Now they want to push that in something with the lowest amount of COGS (kegs are 1/3 the cost of cans and 1/4 that of bottles).  This is why you will see all the sales people fighting for draft handles, that is where they really can make their largest amount of profit by pushing volume through on-premise draft sales.

Sure there are other variables... for one is the MLDA-21's effect on depressed demand amongst underage college students; however, any research on the subject will show that those people who abstained or mostly abstained from alcohol before the age of 21 weren't exactly binging and tearing it up every weekend at the bars once they turned 21.

Also MLDA-18 was a different animal than MLDA-21... under MLDA-18, the vast majority of people increased overall alcohol consumption after becoming legal at 18.  After MLDA-21 was introduced, the inflection point of overall alcohol consumption remained at 18 and while overall consumption did see a slight bump at 21, it was on the back of liquor consumption... beer consumption actually fell from the ages of 18-20 to 21-23, arguably because college students are more likely to order a mixed drink (in lieu of beer) at a bar whereas their earlier (underage) off-premise consumption was almost exclusively beer.
Title: Re: Brendan Bailey Mission Update
Post by: NWarsh on July 11, 2017, 01:16:08 PM
Sure there are other variables... for one is the MLDA-21's effect on depressed demand amongst underage college students; however, any research on the subject will show that those people who abstained or mostly abstained from alcohol before the age of 21 weren't exactly binging and tearing it up every weekend at the bars once they turned 21.

Also MLDA-18 was a different animal than MLDA-21... under MLDA-18, the vast majority of people increased overall alcohol consumption after becoming legal at 18.  After MLDA-21 was introduced, the inflection point of overall alcohol consumption remained at 18 and while overall consumption did see a slight bump at 21, it was on the back of liquor consumption... beer consumption actually fell from the ages of 18-20 to 21-23, arguably because college students are more likely to order a mixed drink (in lieu of beer) at a bar whereas their earlier (underage) off-premise consumption was almost exclusively beer.

The only thing I disagree with in your statement is the assumption you make that if you are buying cans/bottles at a store you will also be buying cans/bottles at the bar.  All the data shows that if you are going to the bar you will be buying draft and specifically premium lights (Miller Lite, Coors Light, Bud Light).  Also, if you were like everybody I knew in college you were buying the economy stuff at the stores and not the "expensive" premium lights.  So the law reduced the overall consumer base, and also generally pushed people from buying a higher margin liquid in the least expensive package (keg) to a low margin beer in a more expensive package (cans and even worse bottles).  This is why all the beer companies lobbied against the age increase.