MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Oldgym on May 20, 2017, 01:20:27 PM
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http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2017/05/20/marquette-host-purdue-gavitt-games/334427001/
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Ooooo, thats a fun one. Hopefully Swaggy goes pro for them or it could be ugly.
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Not if Markus and Rowsey make it rain.
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I'm rooting for Xavier on Nov 16!
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Yeesh. If Swanigan comes back next year, I have Purdue as my way too early #1 team in the country. Top 20 team last season that only loses 2 back of the rotation players. Adds a JUCO with immediate impact potential and former Marquette target and top 75 recruit Nojel Eastern.
With Swanigan, this could be a beatdown but would be a "high reward, low risk" game because of good for RPI they will be. Without Swanigan, the game is winnable but I wouldn't bet on us at this point.
Between Purdue, Georgia, Wisconsin, and the potential of Wichita State/Michigan/Notre Dame, this is going to be a beastly non-con schedule.
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Yeesh. If Swanigan comes back next year, I have Purdue as my way too early #1 team in the country. Top 20 team last season that only loses 2 back of the rotation players. Adds a JUCO with immediate impact potential and former Marquette target and top 75 recruit Nojel Eastern.
With Swanigan, this could be a beatdown but would be a "high reward, low risk" game because of good for RPI they will be. Without Swanigan, the game is winnable but I wouldn't bet on us at this point.
Between Purdue, Georgia, Wisconsin, and the potential of Wichita State/Michigan/Notre Dame, this is going to be a beastly non-con schedule.
Oh come on. It wouldn't be a proper off season if we didn't complain about the schedule.
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Yeesh. If Swanigan comes back next year, I have Purdue as my way too early #1 team in the country. Top 20 team last season that only loses 2 back of the rotation players. Adds a JUCO with immediate impact potential and former Marquette target and top 75 recruit Nojel Eastern.
With Swanigan, this could be a beatdown but would be a "high reward, low risk" game because of good for RPI they will be. Without Swanigan, the game is winnable but I wouldn't bet on us at this point.
Between Purdue, Georgia, Wisconsin, and the potential of Wichita State/Michigan/Notre Dame, this is going to be a beastly non-con schedule.
I would be very surprised if Eastern gets any significant playing time. He put up some good numbers at Evanston but thats only because he was a 6'4" PG usually guarded by somebody much smaller than him.
He's not a particularly good shooter, he's VERY slow and not that athletic and has pretty loose handles for a PG. He can be good in a couple years if he can develop a shot and becomes quicker, but his post up game isn't going to translate well right away because he will be guarded by people that are his size and much, much stronger than him.
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I would be very surprised if Eastern gets any significant playing time. He put up some good numbers at Evanston but thats only because he was a 6'4" PG usually guarded by somebody much smaller than him.
He's not a particularly good shooter, he's VERY slow and not that athletic and has pretty loose handles for a PG. He can be good in a couple years if he can develop a shot and becomes quicker, but his post up game isn't going to translate well right away because he will be guarded by people that are his size and much, much stronger than him.
He doesn't have to get significant playing time next season. If I had to guess, I'd say he'd be the 9th or 10th guy in the rotation for Purdue next season. Anytime you have a top 75 freshman as your 9th or 10th best player you've got a very good team.
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Starting to worry about our sked. Here's another difficult game with a loss that counts 1.4x
Ugh
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Starting to worry about our sked. Here's another difficult game with a loss that counts 1.4x
Ugh
RPI no matta
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Nov. 13th: Minnesota at Providence
Nov. 14th: Purdue at Marquette
Nov. 15th: Butler at Maryland, Creighton at Northwestern, Indiana at Seton Hall
Nov. 16th: Xavier at Wisconsin, Nebraska at St. John’s
Nov. 17th: DePaul at Illinois
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Yeesh. If Swanigan comes back next year, I have Purdue as my way too early #1 team in the country. Top 20 team last season that only loses 2 back of the rotation players. Adds a JUCO with immediate impact potential and former Marquette target and top 75 recruit Nojel Eastern.
With Swanigan, this could be a beatdown but would be a "high reward, low risk" game because of good for RPI they will be. Without Swanigan, the game is winnable but I wouldn't bet on us at this point.
Between Purdue, Georgia, Wisconsin, and the potential of Wichita State/Michigan/Notre Dame, this is going to be a beastly non-con schedule.
It has the makings of a fantastic schedule. As long as you don't lose more than 4 non con games, those loses don't really hurt you at the end of the year.
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Nov. 13th: Minnesota at Providence
Nov. 14th: Purdue at Marquette
Nov. 15th: Butler at Maryland, Creighton at Northwestern, Indiana at Seton Hall
Nov. 16th: Xavier at Wisconsin, Nebraska at St. John’s
Nov. 17th: DePaul at Illinois
Not a bad slate, especially considering some of the marquee programs are out this year. Nova and Mich St being the most noteworthy examples.
But 5 matchups between two tourney teams from last year. Indiana vs Seton Hall is solid, too.
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Starting to worry about our sked. Here's another difficult game with a loss that counts 1.4x
Ugh
This has been my complaint for a few years now...STOP losing home games as often as they do, and they'd be in the tourney every single year. It really is that simple...gotta defend the home court.
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It has the makings of a fantastic schedule. As long as you don't lose more than 4 non con games, those loses don't really hurt you at the end of the year.
Do we Fill Out our Dance Card this OOC season or fall 1 short?
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Really shocking to me, is DePaul and Illinois have not meet since 1957.
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Really shocking to me, is DePaul and Illinois have not meet since 1957.
That does seem odd.
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We got this.
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Yeesh. If Swanigan comes back next year, I have Purdue as my way too early #1 team in the country. Top 20 team last season that only loses 2 back of the rotation players. Adds a JUCO with immediate impact potential and former Marquette target and top 75 recruit Nojel Eastern.
With Swanigan, this could be a beatdown but would be a "high reward, low risk" game because of good for RPI they will be. Without Swanigan, the game is winnable but I wouldn't bet on us at this point.
Between Purdue, Georgia, Wisconsin, and the potential of Wichita State/Michigan/Notre Dame, this is going to be a beastly non-con schedule.
So who would guard Swanigan?
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So who would guard Swanigan?
Theo.
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So who would guard Swanigan?
Hopefully Henry. 8-)
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So who would guard Swanigan?
Everybody taller than 6'5.
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Hoping we get to face both IL and IU before this series ends.
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Do we Fill Out our Dance Card this OOC season or fall 1 short?
I would guess we do with 12 again.
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I think poster is asking 30 or 31 games.
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I think poster is asking 30 or 31 games.
OOC.
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This has been my complaint for a few years now...STOP losing home games as often as they do, and they'd be in the tourney every single year. It really is that simple...gotta defend the home court.
Yes. Beating a final four contender is really that simple.
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I think poster is asking 30 or 31 games.
I hope we can figure out 31. Makes it easier to get to the magic 20 win mark.
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I hope we can figure out 31. Makes it easier to get to the magic 20 win mark.
What magic?
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It has the makings of a fantastic schedule. As long as you don't lose more than 4 non con games, those loses don't really hurt you at the end of the year.
From a fan perspective its a fantastic schedule. But maybe not from a team perspective. We have the look of a bubble or NIT team going into this season. Depending on the matchups in Maui we could end up facing 5 potential top 25 teams, three on neutral courts, one on the road, the best one at home, and none of them with Froling. You add in a potential headscratching loss to a buy game and you could end up dead in the water by the team Big East play rolls around.
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I hope we can figure out 31. Makes it easier to get to the magic 20 win mark.
Yep. Marquette (10 seed) really needed that magic 20 win mark last season. As did Vanderbilt (9 seed), Michigan State (9 seed), and Wake Forest (11 seed). And Vanderbilt (11 seed), Oregon State (7 seed), Texas Tech (8 seed), and Syracuse (10 seed) the year before.
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From a fan perspective its a fantastic schedule. But maybe not from a team perspective. We have the look of a bubble or NIT team going into this season. Depending on the matchups in Maui we could end up facing 5 potential top 25 teams, three on neutral courts, one on the road, the best one at home, and none of them with Froling. You add in a potential headscratching loss to a buy game and you could end up dead in the water by the team Big East play rolls around.
Why would we be dead in the water when we're then gonna go out and win the Big East?
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I hope we can figure out 31. Makes it easier to get to the magic 20 win mark.
20 wins in 2015-16, no postseason.
19 wins in 2016-17, NCAA at large berth.
Well done on another dumb post.
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We're in year 4 of the Wojo regime. Duane was successfully ran off and it's now all Wojo's guys. If we're afraid of a Big 10 player / team, we've got issues. I don't care who they run out, this game is at home. And UGA, it's a lower tier SEC team. Who do you guys want? Maine?
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What magic?
The Magic Dawson Line
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We're in year 4 of the Wojo regime. Duane was successfully ran off and it's now all Wojo's guys. If we're afraid of a Big 10 player / team, we've got issues. I don't care who they run out, this game is at home. And UGA, it's a lower tier SEC team. Who do you guys want? Maine?
Yes, Duane was successfully "ran off."
Stoopid Wojo should have given Duane all of the minutes that went to Markus, Rowsey, Katin, Sam, JJJ and Luke. We would have gotten back to the Final Four for sure!
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Yes, Duane was successfully "ran off."
Stoopid Wojo should have given Duane all of the minutes that went to Markus, Rowsey, Katin, Sam, JJJ and Luke. We would have gotten back to the Final Four for sure!
The point is these are all his guys. No more excuses, no more training wheels. It's the 4th year in a program that spends millions & millions & millions on hoops. It's time for big nonconf wins, finishes atop the conf and trips to the second weekend.
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It has the makings of a fantastic schedule. As long as you don't lose more than 4 non con games, those loses don't really hurt you at the end of the year.
Generally, I would say 4 non-conference losses are to many. However, this year it might not hurt MU as much if the losses are before Froling is eligible. Those losses will not hurt as much, if we are clearly a better team with Froling.
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Boilers no matta.
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Yep. Marquette (10 seed) really needed that magic 20 win mark last season. As did Vanderbilt (9 seed), Michigan State (9 seed), and Wake Forest (11 seed). And Vanderbilt (11 seed), Oregon State (7 seed), Texas Tech (8 seed), and Syracuse (10 seed) the year before.
We may not need it to get to the NCAA tournamnet, However, I have always tracked our 20 game win streaks. We could have a two season 20 game win streak right now had we played 13 non-conference games last year.
However, 20 win seasons are not a very strong metric anymore, since there are so many games. I would say winning 25 is the equivelent to winning 20 in the early McGuire years. Back then 30-0 would of been a perfect season, now it would be 40-0.
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The point is these are all his guys. No more excuses, no more training wheels. It's the 4th year in a program that spends millions & millions & millions on hoops. It's time for big nonconf wins, finishes atop the conf and trips to the second weekend.
What excuses were made last year? What "training wheels" are you talking about?
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From a fan perspective its a fantastic schedule. But maybe not from a team perspective. We have the look of a bubble or NIT team going into this season. Depending on the matchups in Maui we could end up facing 5 potential top 25 teams, three on neutral courts, one on the road, the best one at home, and none of them with Froling. You add in a potential headscratching loss to a buy game and you could end up dead in the water by the team Big East play rolls around.
Yah, if you lose them all. Win 2 and you're in fantastic shape, even with 3 non con losses. It's a great schedule. Even if you get beat up a bit, losing to top 25 teams doesn't really hurt you.
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People complain about the non-conference schedule being too weak. Now it's too hard? C'MON man up! (and Chick & Mom woman up!)
We will burn the Domers in the Maui sun, exterminate the Rodents in their own house, and make Purdon't boiler down! Heldt will eat some Sonoran Salsa before the game and turn Haas into guacamole! Howard, Rowsey, and Hauser will rain so many 3s that Navy Seals will be saying "daa-umm they got some snipers!"
So R-E-L-A-X; we got this. #runthetable
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What excuses were made last year? What "training wheels" are you talking about?
There had been a line of thinking (not saying by you) that Wojo was saddled with JJJ, Duane and Luke and we couldn't really be full Wojo until those guys were finally gone. Well they're finally gone. It's time to fly.
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People complain about the non-conference schedule being too weak. Now it's too hard? C'MON man up! (and Chick & Mom woman up!)
My concern isn't "too weak" or "too hard" (pause). It's the RPI and/or whatever metrics are used going forward by the selection committee.
You can create a very difficult or "hard" schedule that has a so called "strength" from the lens of the committee that is far weaker. Conversely, you can have a relatively easy schedule that results in a very high "strength" (see Minnesota last season).
The RPI's Strength of Schedule is not a sane way to measure difficulty.
We're going to have a difficult schedule. The concern is if we have a difficult schedule that doesn't get recognized... and that's a real possibility here.
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RPI will be used next year by the committee too. I don't think they announced any changes. And the guys on the committee are also the ones making their schools' schedules next year, so they are going to schedule to maximize RPI.
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Generally, I would say 4 non-conference losses are to many. However, this year it might not hurt MU as much if the losses are before Froling is eligible. Those losses will not hurt as much, if we are clearly a better team with Froling.
Froling has some skills but is not going to be an impact player in the first year . Matt Heldt has proven he can absorb and dish out the physicality in our league and will get Lions share of minutes. Froling will need to prove he can play Big East defense and is not soft. That will take time.
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Froling has some skills but is not going to be an impact player in the first year . Matt Heldt has proven he can absorb and dish out the physicality in our league and will get Lions share of minutes. Froling will need to prove he can play Big East defense and is not soft. That will take time.
Just a guess but I'm thinking the coaching staff knows what Froling can do based on a year of practice with the team. I don't think late December of 2017 is going to be Froling's first chance to prove to the coaching staff he can compete at this level...
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Froling has some skills but is not going to be an impact player in the first year . Matt Heldt has proven he can absorb and dish out the physicality in our league and will get Lions share of minutes. Froling will need to prove he can play Big East defense and is not soft. That will take time.
::)
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There had been a line of thinking (not saying by you) that Wojo was saddled with JJJ, Duane and Luke and we couldn't really be full Wojo until those guys were finally gone. Well they're finally gone. It's time to fly.
We were pretty much "full Wojo" last year.
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Yah, if you lose them all. Win 2 and you're in fantastic shape, even with 3 non con losses. It's a great schedule. Even if you get beat up a bit, losing to top 25 teams doesn't really hurt you.
Not necessarily. It depends on the rest of the buy games. Imagine this. We get beat down by potential #1 Purdue. Then we get beat down again by potential top 10 Wichita State in the first round of Maui. Then get chaminade in the second round. Then we play LSU or Cal who will both be RPI stinkers by high major standards. Then we lose at Wisconsin and beat Georgia at home. Suddenly your most impressive wins are NIT or worse Georgia at home and sub 100 LSU or Cal. Combine that with weak buy games and all of the sudden you have an abysmal non conference even though it was actually very difficult.
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Froling has some skills but is not going to be an impact player in the first year . Matt Heldt has proven he can absorb and dish out the physicality in our league and will get Lions share of minutes. Froling will need to prove he can play Big East defense and is not soft. That will take time.
I would be very surprised if Matt gets the minutes you think once Froling is available to play. .
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Not necessarily. It depends on the rest of the buy games. Imagine this. We get beat down by potential #1 Purdue. Then we get beat down again by potential top 10 Wichita State in the first round of Maui. Then get chaminade in the second round. Then we play LSU or Cal who will both be RPI stinkers by high major standards. Then we lose at Wisconsin and beat Georgia at home. Suddenly your most impressive wins are NIT or worse Georgia at home and sub 100 LSU or Cal. Combine that with weak buy games and all of the sudden you have an abysmal non conference even though it was actually very difficult.
Sure. But that is pretty much worst case scenario. Beat UGA and one of Purdue, Wisconsin and you're in pretty great shape regardless of what happened in Maui. Beat WSU, ND or Michigan in Maui in addition and were in fantastic shape to make the dance at 9-9 in BE play.
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From a fan perspective its a fantastic schedule. But maybe not from a team perspective. We have the look of a bubble or NIT team going into this season.
I'm not worried about the schedule. I am worried that in year 4 of the Wojo regime "we have the look of a bubble or NIT team going into the season".
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I'm not worried about the schedule. I am worried that in year 4 of the Wojo regime "we have the look of a bubble or NIT team going into the season".
+1000...Too young(this is why I called for a grad transfer so badly), and having to rely on Freshman is a recipe for disaster. Many are very high on this Freshman class...and hopefully they turn out alright, but I just don't see it with this class..not like I did with the previous years class of Sam, Markus etc. Not one highly ranked guy(rankings aren't always everything). As I said, in order for MU to get back to "elite" status, you HAVE to have mainly all your key pieces be top 100 guys(with a couple top 50's+), and never have a guy on your bench that's lower than 150ish. Then, and only then, will MU start to get back to the top in college BB. To me, this incoming Freshman class is a bunch of "need" guys. Got the potatoes, but don't see a lot of "meat" with this class.
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How many teams in the Big East, let alone the country, are going to have a better starting backcourt than Marquette? It's a guard's game. Not many teams can top Rowsey and Howard plus Hauser if he's playing the 3. Not to mention Cheatham can contribute and Cain and Elliot have some big time potential. If a couple of our bigs can defend the post and rebound we're closer to a top 20 team than a bubble team. If they can't then we are a bubble team for the 2nd straight year.
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I'm not worried about the schedule. I am worried that in year 4 of the Wojo regime "we have the look of a bubble or NIT team going into the season".
That's fine if you feel that way. Anytime you graduate three players like Luke, Reinhardt, and JJJ you are going to have trouble building on your past year. Even if we don't end up in the tournament this year the rebuild is still on schedule. Tournament by year three. High seed and foundation for future success by year 5.
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+1000...Too young(this is why I called for a grad transfer so badly), and having to rely on Freshman is a recipe for disaster. Many are very high on this Freshman class...and hopefully they turn out alright, but I just don't see it with this class..not like I did with the previous years class of Sam, Markus etc. Not one highly ranked guy(rankings aren't always everything). As I said, in order for MU to get back to "elite" status, you HAVE to have mainly all your key pieces be top 100 guys(with a couple top 50's+), and never have a guy on your bench that's lower than 150ish. Then, and only then, will MU start to get back to the top in college BB. To me, this incoming Freshman class is a bunch of "need" guys. Got the potatoes, but don't see a lot of "meat" with this class.
First, I would try to get over your hangup on rankings. Yes, they are an easy snapshot of what to expect from a player in their first year. But they are not the end all be all of that player's potential. Some of our best players: Dwyane Wade, Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, DJO, Davante Gardner were ranked outside of the top 100 coming out of high school.
Second, the great thing about this class is that I don't expect to "have to rely on" any of the freshmen. I am projecting the top of the rotation to be Markus, Rowsey, Hauser, Froling, Heldt, Cheatham, and Anim. If Cain, John, Elliott, or Eke are good enough to be "relied on" then I fully expect us to be in the tournament comfortably. It's okay to have players who aren't ready to make an immediate impact. Unless you are consistently bringing in top 25 players, the best way to be "elite" is to get old and stay old.
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I'm not worried about the schedule. I am worried that in year 4 of the Wojo regime "we have the look of a bubble or NIT team going into the season".
Progress isn't always linear.
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How many teams in the Big East, let alone the country, are going to have a better starting backcourt than Marquette? It's a guard's game. Not many teams can top Rowsey and Howard plus Hauser if he's playing the 3. Not to mention Cheatham can contribute and Cain and Elliot have some big time potential. If a couple of our bigs can defend the post and rebound we're closer to a top 20 team than a bubble team. If they can't then we are a bubble team for the 2nd straight year.
In the Big East?
Villanova: Jalen Brunson, Phil Booth, and Donte DiVincenzo
Xavier: Quentin Goodin, Paul Scuggs, JP Macura, Trevon Blueitt
Providence: Kyron Cartwright, Makai Ashton-Langford, Jalen Lindsey
Seton Hall: Myles Powell, Khadeen Carrington, and Desi Rodriguez
Creighton: Davion Mintz, Khyri Thomas, and Marcus Foster
St. John's: Marcus LoVett Jr, Shamorie Ponds, and Justin Simon
Not all of those are definitively better than Howard, Rowsey, and Cheatham but there isn't a lot of distance between them. This will be another year of Villanova on top, Georgetown/Depaul on the bottom, and a giant clusterfack in between.
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I'll tell you one thing I like...
Assuming no transfers (although I wouldn't be surprised as always), this team will only lose one to graduation. That's huge. If we make the tourney again, 3/4's of our team are underclassmen.
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I'll tell you one thing I like...
Assuming no transfers (although I wouldn't be surprised as always), this team will only lose one to graduation. That's huge. If we make the tourney again, 3/4's of our team are underclassmen.
Yep. With a big transfer, a (legitimate) 20 year old 4 star freshmen, and potentially 1 or 2 other top HS recruits. That's why the rebuild is still on schedule. With as big as the Class of 2013 was, this season was always going to be a "reload" type season. 18-19 is the season where we truly get to flex our muscles.
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+1000...Too young(this is why I called for a grad transfer so badly), and having to rely on Freshman is a recipe for disaster. Many are very high on this Freshman class...and hopefully they turn out alright, but I just don't see it with this class..not like I did with the previous years class of Sam, Markus etc. Not one highly ranked guy(rankings aren't always everything). As I said, in order for MU to get back to "elite" status, you HAVE to have mainly all your key pieces be top 100 guys(with a couple top 50's+), and never have a guy on your bench that's lower than 150ish. Then, and only then, will MU start to get back to the top in college BB. To me, this incoming Freshman class is a bunch of "need" guys. Got the potatoes, but don't see a lot of "meat" with this class.
The most meaningful indicator of recruit potential is what conference level the recruits are and the trend of their play. Our incoming recruits had offers from Big Ten, Big East, SEC, ACC , PAC 12 and Big 12. The playing trend was also upward for all of them. We recruited highly athletic players with the size , skills and heart to compete in our league and beyond. My sense is a couple years from now there will be stories about how certain players were a steal for MU. The beauty is all of these freshman plus our transfer will have the time to properly develop as our returners are all very solid .
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The most meaningful indicator of recruit potential is what conference level the recruits are and the trend of their play. Our incoming recruits had offers from Big Ten, Big East, SEC, ACC , PAC 12 and Big 12. The playing trend was also upward for all of them. We recruited highly athletic players with the size , skills and heart to compete in our league and beyond. My sense is a couple years from now there will be stories about how certain players were a steal for MU. The beauty is all of these freshman plus our transfer will have the time to properly develop as our returners are all very solid .
With a very, very few rare exceptions, just about every single player that commits to a high major program has offers from multiple high major conferences. If that's the way to differentiate recruits, then just about every single high major recruit out there is very similar in ability. I'm not sure how you would define "playing trend."
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No Wojo vs Collins.
Also, no neighboring state battles (MU-Ill, MU-Minn). I guess the Gavitt schedulers are boring.
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Froling has some skills but is not going to be an impact player in the first year . Matt Heldt has proven he can absorb and dish out the physicality in our league and will get Lions share of minutes.
I'm shocked more people haven't called you out on this take, which I believe is hysterically incorrect.
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I'm shocked more people haven't called you out on this take, which I believe is hysterically incorrect.
Some have Surrendered!
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Haven't paid attention to him in ages. Glad he's found something new to be 180 degrees wrong about.
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I'm shocked more people haven't called you out on this take, which I believe is hysterically incorrect.
Why is it hysterically incorrect?He proved absolutely nothing at SMU. He was self admittedly not up to the athleticism that was required on that team and quit at the first sign of being challenged in his life. Go to the SMU message and they felt addition by subtraction. I also took the time to check him out in our practices and didn't see anything that led me to believe he was light years above Matt Heldt. If anybody is being hysterical it is you.
All I am saying is lets give Froling a year in the Big East before we start setting unrealistic expectations. Matt is our starting center and he is going to do a great job for the team this year. Froling will be his backup and will hopefully understand our league by the second time he goes around it.
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Why is it hysterically incorrect?He proved absolutely nothing at SMU. He was self admittedly not up to the athleticism that was required on that team and quit at the first sign of being challenged in his life. Go to the SMU message and they felt addition by subtraction. I also took the time to check him out in our practices and didn't see anything that led me to believe he was light years above Matt Heldt. If anybody is being hysterical it is you.
All I am saying is lets give Froling a year in the Big East before we start setting unrealistic expectations. Matt is our starting center and he is going to do a great job for the team this year. Froling will be his backup and will hopefully understand our league by the second time he goes around it.
I'm gonna call you out on your BS and say you've never even seen Froling practice once, let alone multiple times.
Also, if you did go to said practices, then you'd know he's in much better shape then he was at SMU or at any other point in his life.
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I'm gonna call you out on your BS and say you've never even seen Froling practice once, let alone multiple times.
Also, if you did go to said practices, then you'd know he's in much better shape then he was at SMU or at any other point in his life.
MYFINY = Heldt!
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Why is it hysterically incorrect?He proved absolutely nothing at SMU. He was self admittedly not up to the athleticism that was required on that team and quit at the first sign of being challenged in his life. Go to the SMU message and they felt addition by subtraction. I also took the time to check him out in our practices and didn't see anything that led me to believe he was light years above Matt Heldt. If anybody is being hysterical it is you.
All I am saying is lets give Froling a year in the Big East before we start setting unrealistic expectations. Matt is our starting center and he is going to do a great job for the team this year. Froling will be his backup and will hopefully understand our league by the second time he goes around it.
I am still suffering from the image of Heldt getting two passes in perfect position against South Carolina and not even getting a shot off. I will repeat what I said before, if Froling is not better than Heldt than we will not be a very good team.
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Why is it hysterically incorrect?He proved absolutely nothing at SMU. He was self admittedly not up to the athleticism that was required on that team and quit at the first sign of being challenged in his life. Go to the SMU message and they felt addition by subtraction. I also took the time to check him out in our practices and didn't see anything that led me to believe he was light years above Matt Heldt. If anybody is being hysterical it is you.
All I am saying is lets give Froling a year in the Big East before we start setting unrealistic expectations. Matt is our starting center and he is going to do a great job for the team this year. Froling will be his backup and will hopefully understand our league by the second time he goes around it.
Given your track record on this board I highly doubt you've ever seen Harry Froling practice. I'm optimistic because a (self-admittedly) overweight, freshman Froling averaged 15 minutes a game on a team that went on to become a 6 seed in the NCAA Tourney. And when he committed I immediately went to SMU boards to gauge their reactions and wouldn't you know it, most were very disappointed he was leaving. I saw little to no "addition by subtraction" you're referring to.
The day he committed he mentioned his need to get in great shape and he's lost 40 pounds since stepping on campus ... sure sounds like a guy with no drive to me. I'm also optimistic because unlike you, I know someone who watched him practice every day for nearly 3 months and told me he was head and shoulders better than Heldt. A big man who can take centers off the dribble and stretch the floor is awfully promising and with him getting into top-notch shape the sky is the limit. JayBee and others familiar with ValueAdd would know better than me, but I contend he could become our third "most valuable" player next year behind Markus and Sam.
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Froling is literally skinny now. I follow him on Snapchat and he posted some pictures the other at the pool. Dude has abs. Lost AT LEAST 50 pounds.
As JayBee loves to say (no homo).
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Not necessarily. It depends on the rest of the buy games. Imagine this. We get beat down by potential #1 Purdue. Then we get beat down again by potential top 10 Wichita State in the first round of Maui. Then get chaminade in the second round. Then we play LSU or Cal who will both be RPI stinkers by high major standards. Then we lose at Wisconsin and beat Georgia at home. Suddenly your most impressive wins are NIT or worse Georgia at home and sub 100 LSU or Cal. Combine that with weak buy games and all of the sudden you have an abysmal non conference even though it was actually very difficult.
MU won't likely get WSU in the first round, let alone see Chaminade. Looking at the past six tournaments, when there have been two mid-majors in the field, they match up in the first round in either the first or last game (depending if there's a west coast team)... so WSU will likely get VCU in the first game. SEC always has had one of the first two games, and they usually try to put either a marquee matchup and/or a west coast team in the last game. So figure LSU in game 2 and Cal in Game 4. Chaminade has mostly played in game 3 and entirely against B12 or ACC teams; since there is no B12 team in the field, ND will probably get Chaminade in game 3. That leaves Michigan and Marquette. The last time a BE team was in game 4 was 2011 and that was GTown/KU. MU/Cal isn't exactly a marquee matchup, so they'll probably put Michigan with Cal and Marquette with LSU.
So Maui should look something like this:
WSU/VCU
LSU/MU
ND/Cham
Cal/UM
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Every year, someone is complaining about the OOC. I'll agree I',m surprised that there are as many complaints about toughness as there are but, well..... what would the off-season be if we could not complain about scheduling and recruiting.
Here's a simple rule: If we live up to our potential. If we play smart and with poise. If we play as a team and with the intensity we know we can, then we'll be fine.
We have depth this year. We also have some braun which we really didn't have last year. I'm also a believer that Mr. Cheatham will be a motivated force in 2017-2018 and our weapons will be everywhere.
Look out world. We're arrogant and obnoxious and we're back!
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^^^ tell me more about this depth you speak of...
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I sure would like to get back to the days where every season doesn't start with "if this" or "if that". Let's get back to the days where you know they are in the tourney before the season starts(barring something disastrous), they are just playing for seeding. It wasn't that long ago when we as MU fans had that luxury.
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I sure would like to get back to the days where every season doesn't start with "if this" or "if that". Let's get back to the days where you know they are in the tourney before the season starts(barring something disastrous), they are just playing for seeding. It wasn't that long ago when we as MU fans had that luxury.
I don't know that we ever consistently had that leisure. There were some years during the Buzz era where it definitely wasn't a guarantee at the beginning of the season.
It's still early, but I'm feeling very good about the 18-19 season at this point.
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I sure would like to get back to the days where every season doesn't start with "if this" or "if that". Let's get back to the days where you know they are in the tourney before the season starts(barring something disastrous), they are just playing for seeding. It wasn't that long ago when we as MU fans had that luxury.
The last time it felt like a guarantee was 2013-14. Oops.
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The last time it felt like a guarantee was 2013-14. Oops.
Don't know that 13-14 was a "guarantee" going in as we knew the backcourt would be a problem with Vander's departure.
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Not that the AP poll is any "guarantee" of anything either, but since we joined the BE we've only had one season where we went wire-to-wire being ranked -- 2011-2012.
Came close in both 06-07 and 07-08 (missed one week in each season).
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"The good ole days weren't always good and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems."
(Sorry for quoting Billy Joel.)
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"The good ole days weren't always good and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems."
(Sorry for quoting Billy Joel.)
You may be right.
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The last time it felt like a guarantee was 2013-14. Oops.
But for that one oops, how many years did we have prior to that where the "guarantee" was actually something of value? To me, it sure felt like that as early as '06-07 (at least once Dominic withdrew from the draft - or decided not to declare, I forget which).
Sure, there were a few shaky years of Team Bubble Watch mixed in there where there were more questions than answers the first week of March, but when the season started, perhaps it wasn't a guarantee so much as it was comfort or confidence or the mere sentiment that - stupid metaphor warning - the only way MU was missing the dance was by playing itself out of contention - despite what Chicos and his 5-year plan had to say.
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But for that one oops, how many years did we have prior to that where the "guarantee" was actually something of value? To me, it sure felt like that as early as '06-07 (at least once Dominic withdrew from the draft - or decided not to declare, I forget which).
Sure, there were a few shaky years of Team Bubble Watch mixed in there where there were more questions than answers the first week of March, but when the season started, perhaps it wasn't a guarantee so much as it was comfort or confidence or the mere sentiment that - stupid metaphor warning - the only way MU was missing the dance was by playing itself out of contention - despite what Chicos and his 5-year plan had to say.
Exactly Benny, and I know many here want to say they were "team bubble watch" Under Buzz. Maybe in some people's opinions they were a few years, but I never really felt like they weren't getting in at the beginning of a season under Buzz. Now, they may have made it a little dicey a few times, but again, I never really fdelt like they were in jeopardy of missing. You could just sense(at least i could), that they would right the ship and get in anyway...and that's exactly what they did. Of course '13-'14 was an unmitigated disaster.
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I don't know that we ever consistently had that leisure. There were some years during the Buzz era where it definitely wasn't a guarantee at the beginning of the season.
It's still early, but I'm feeling very good about the 18-19 season at this point.
Sure '18-'19..but it would have been nice to have that feeling last year, and sure as hell would be nice to have that feeling this year as well...
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I have that feeling. I expect MU to be in the tourney.
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After 2 misses, 05-06 seemed like a long shot to start. A lot rested on freshmen, and no one expected that strong of a Big East start.
Felt pretty locked in until 09-10, when I don't think anyone felt very confident until February after our 11-8 (2-5) start.
10-11 was another question with no significant non-con wins and never more than 2 games over .500 in conference play en route to 9-9.
I felt confident every year until 14-15. Granted, we knew Vander left in 13-14, but anyone that didn't firmly expect a tourney bid is a liar. We were ranked to start the season and consensus favorites in the league even without Blue.
I want to get back there, but like last year, I'm hoping for but not expecting a bid in the upcoming season. I felt far more confident in each of Buzz's last three years.
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I have that feeling. I expect MU to be in the tourney.
Yeah, I'm on this side of the fence too. Seems like muguru is not.
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Yeah, I'm on this side of the fence too. Seems like muguru is not.
I just don't see enough experience..and I'm not sold Haniff will be any better than he was last year, and honestly, his development, MIGHT be the key. I'm also not as sold(yet) on this Freshman class as some are...I see a bunch of "guys" but no one like a Markus, or a go to guy. IF they do get in, it won't be by much...again. Like i said abive, I'd like to get back to the not sweating selection Sundays...for a really long time.
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Any y'all have a peaceful, easy feelin', hey?
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I just don't see enough experience..and I'm not sold Haniff will be any better than he was last year, and honestly, his development, MIGHT be the key. I'm also not as sold(yet) on this Freshman class as some are...I see a bunch of "guys" but no one like a Markus, or a go to guy. IF they do get in, it won't be by much...again. Like i said abive, I'd like to get back to the not sweating selection Sundays...for a really long time.
Breathe.
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I just don't see enough experience..and I'm not sold Haniff will be any better than he was last year, and honestly, his development, MIGHT be the key. I'm also not as sold(yet) on this Freshman class as some are...I see a bunch of "guys" but no one like a Markus, or a go to guy. IF they do get in, it won't be by much...again. Like i said abive, I'd like to get back to the not sweating selection Sundays...for a really long time.
I see two lead guards with experience and ridiculous range. I see a junior to be who had a great freshman year and will want to bounce back from a sophomore slump. I see a miniature Steve Nova at the 3. I see a lot of size and versatility that will sort itself out up front.
Sure, it is possible that the young guys develop slower than we would hope. Injuries are always concerns. And transfers. But I choose to be optimistic.
In the words of the rasta....
...don't worry..... about a ting.....every little thing..... gonna be all right
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I just don't see enough experience..and I'm not sold Haniff will be any better than he was last year, and honestly, his development, MIGHT be the key. I'm also not as sold(yet) on this Freshman class as some are...I see a bunch of "guys" but no one like a Markus, or a go to guy. IF they do get in, it won't be by much...again. Like i said abive, I'd like to get back to the not sweating selection Sundays...for a really long time.
Well, its seems easier for me because I’m not that versed in detailed stats, and rankings beyond the top 30.
In my simple terms, I start with trusting Wojo’s evaluation of talent. That leads me to believe this years Big’s will contribute more than last years Bigs. I think they will benefit immensely playing with and against Ed Morrow in practice and maybe finding out the hard work of crashing boards, Especially the freshmen Bigs.
Our core 3pt shooters are returning and maybe will finding a few more driving lanes with the help of this years Bigs.
I expect Cheatham, Sacar and Elliott to provide more 2 point scoring then we had last year. After reading Big Daddy’s post about the coaching staff giving Greg a lot of opportunity by not recruiting his position as soon as he committed. Really excited to see him on the court.
Anyways, not scientific, but an accumulations of my observations s as of today
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I see two lead guards with experience and ridiculous range. I see a junior to be who had a great freshman year and will want to bounce back from a sophomore slump. I see a miniature Steve Nova at the 3. I see a lot of size and versatility that will sort itself out up front.
Sure, it is possible that the young guys develop slower than we would hope. Injuries are always concerns. And transfers. But I choose to be optimistic.
In the words of the rasta....
...don't worry..... about a ting.....every little thing..... gonna be all right
That's every little ting...
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Where will the defense improve? Our two best offensive players are short. Nothing wrong with that, but makes switches difficult on defense when you have the two of them playing together.
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Where will the defense improve? Our two best offensive players are short. Nothing wrong with that, but makes switches difficult on defense when you have the two of them playing together.
Our defense will improve in the post. First, we'll have fouls to give that simply weren't available last year. Second, and not to dump on the departed, but our pick/roll defense will get better by definition.
One other thing. Doesn't Hanni earn his minutes as a 'shut down'? Of course he has to work on his right hand and his mid-range on offense but doesn't he demand playing time by shutting down the Bluiett's of the world? I sincerely hope (and expect) that he's working his arse off this summer.
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Given your track record on this board I highly doubt you've ever seen Harry Froling practice. I'm optimistic because a (self-admittedly) overweight, freshman Froling averaged 15 minutes a game on a team that went on to become a 6 seed in the NCAA Tourney. And when he committed I immediately went to SMU boards to gauge their reactions and wouldn't you know it, most were very disappointed he was leaving. I saw little to no "addition by subtraction" you're referring to.
MUFINY's posts aren't meant to be statements of fact. Once you understand that they bits of whimsy, pulled out of his rectum and presented as merely facsimiles of fact, performance art if you will, you'll appreciate his artistry more. If you insist on viewing them as actual fact rather than fanciful fan art you'll only get frustrated.
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Certainly Defense is always a concern, but something I noticed on another Board when they were ranking their all time best players at different position. Almost all were very high offensive calling card players. It was striking to me that almost all Fans Talk defense but Few Vote defense. Just an observation and trying to figure out what that means in the climate of defense debate on the Boards I visited. Seems like when push comes to shove offense wins as far as Fans are concerned. You may want to test it on yourself.
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That's every little ting...
great like this or with Appleton VX and a touch of pineapple juice
(http://www.amountainofcrushedice.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/jwray-and-ting.jpg)
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Put me in the I think we will dance camp. I think key will be OOC schedule without Froling. If Heltd can stay out of foul trouble that I think could be the key. Once Froling is playing we can have rosters that can play small or with lots of length and both could be very offensive with good rim protection.
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I see two lead guards with experience and ridiculous range. I see a junior to be who had a great freshman year and will want to bounce back from a sophomore slump. I see a miniature Steve Nova at the 3. I see a lot of size and versatility that will sort itself out up front.
Sure, it is possible that the young guys develop slower than we would hope. Injuries are always concerns. And transfers. But I choose to be optimistic.
In the words of the rasta....
...don't worry..... about a ting.....every little thing..... gonna be all right
My two oldest are already telling their friends about going to the "Marquette NCA tournament again next March," and while I hate to see their hearts broken, I see no reason to tamp down expectations. But would I place $100 straight-up on MU making the dance? Heck no.
[tough love > $100]
I probably would have made that bet anytime between '06 and '12. I'm not pessimistic... I'm just very cautiously optimistic.
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$100 is trivial. $1000 now, yeah, I wouldn't bet that much.
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I'll bet anyone on this board $100 we go dancing next season.
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I'll bet anyone on this board $100 we go dancing next season.
What about this season?
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What about this season?
We're in the off season, so the next season starts in November. That is how I interpreted it.
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We're in the off season, so the next season starts in November. That is how I interpreted it.
That's the way my Calendar reads.
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We're in the off season, so the next season starts in November. That is how I interpreted it.
Are you buying me a beer this Saturday or next Saturday?
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Are you buying me a beer this Saturday or next Saturday?
Free beer tomorrow
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What about this season?
This season ended in April. Next season begins in November.
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You may be right.
I see what you did there.
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Purdue's Caleb Swanigan is staying in the NBA Draft, source told ESPN. I had one GM tell me they think he is... espn.com/espn/now?nowId…
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This season ended in April. Next season begins in November.
Or last season ended in April and this season begins in November.
This may actually be based on where you live. I grew up in Milwaukee and now live in Sheboygan. In Sheboygan this Saturday would mean May 27th and next Saturday would be June 3rd. Coming from Milwaukee, I did not think this way and it took a while to understand this.
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Or last season ended in April and this season begins in November.
Or last season ended in April and next season starts in November. There is no this season right now.
By September or October, next season will become this season. It's really subjective, but I feel next season is too far away to be referred to as this season. Whereas Saturday is only days away, so this Saturday is May 27 and next Saturday is June 3.
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Certainly Defense is always a concern, but something I noticed on another Board when they were ranking their all time best players at different position. Almost all were very high offensive calling card players. It was striking to me that almost all Fans Talk defense but Few Vote defense. Just an observation and trying to figure out what that means in the climate of defense debate on the Boards I visited. Seems like when push comes to shove offense wins as far as Fans are concerned. You may want to test it on yourself.
Defense don't matta, unless you can score.
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Or last season ended in April and this season begins in November.
This may actually be based on where you live. I grew up in Milwaukee and now live in Sheboygan. In Sheboygan this Saturday would mean May 27th and next Saturday would be June 3rd. Coming from Milwaukee, I did not think this way and it took a while to understand this.
"I Don't know.....Third Base"
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Or last season ended in April and this season begins in November.
This may actually be based on where you live. I grew up in Milwaukee and now live in Sheboygan. In Sheboygan this Saturday would mean May 27th and next Saturday would be June 3rd. Coming from Milwaukee, I did not think this way and it took a while to understand this.
If we were in Germany, I'd have to make your bunk. But we're in Italy so you have to make mine. Its regulations.
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So I'm the only one who grew up saying "this past Saturday" and "this coming Saturday."