MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Marcus92 on May 19, 2017, 01:51:53 AM

Title: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Marcus92 on May 19, 2017, 01:51:53 AM
Luke Fischer, at 62.1%.

Ahead of players such as Roy Hibbert, Derrick Coleman and Alonzo Mourning.

Not saying Luke was anywhere near as dominant. But when he took a shot, he was about as efficient as it gets.

BTW, the only other Marquette players currently in the top 100 are DJO (40th at 53.2%) and Lazar Hayward (75th at 50.9%). Markus and Sam may have something to say about that before they're done.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: auburnmarquette on May 19, 2017, 02:32:04 AM
Great stuff. If Markus had never taken a 2-point shot his eFG% for the season would have finished at 81%
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Jay Bee on May 19, 2017, 07:06:53 AM
Luke Fischer, at 62.1%.

Ahead of players such as Roy Hibbert, Derrick Coleman and Alonzo Mourning.

Not saying Luke was anywhere near as dominant. But when he took a shot, he was about as efficient as it gets.

BTW, the only other Marquette players currently in the top 100 are DJO (40th at 53.2%) and Lazar Hayward (75th at 50.9%). Markus and Sam may have something to say about that before they're done.

I'd call it "effective" or "better shooter" vs efficient, but yes, Luke was great

The ranks look odd, though. What players are you excluding? (E.g. Clearly you're excluding guys who haven't played X minutes or taken X shots or something similar)
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: warriorchick on May 19, 2017, 09:06:27 AM
Luke Fischer, at 62.1%.

Ahead of players such as Roy Hibbert, Derrick Coleman and Alonzo Mourning.

Not saying Luke was anywhere near as dominant. But when he took a shot, he was about as efficient as it gets.

BTW, the only other Marquette players currently in the top 100 are DJO (40th at 53.2%) and Lazar Hayward (75th at 50.9%). Markus and Sam may have something to say about that before they're done.

Not to slam Fischy, but 99% of his shots were no-footers, and he still missed way more than he should have.  I am assuming that is a statistic that's not measured, but I would want to know what the average distance from the goal was for him vs. everyone else in the top ten.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Jay Bee on May 19, 2017, 09:17:17 AM
Not to slam Fischy, but 99% of his shots were no-footers, and he still missed way more than he should have.  I am assuming that is a statistic that's not measured, but I would want to know what the average distance from the goal was for him vs. everyone else in the top ten.

False. Per hoop-math, 55% of his attempts were at the rim. He made an insane 82.8% of them (team made 67%). 2pt jumpers (not a layup or dunk) he hit a strong 42.3% on (team was 37.3%).

His shooting was great, and he put up a healthy amount of attempts
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 19, 2017, 09:18:25 AM
Not to slam Fischy, but 99% of his shots were no-footers, and he still missed way more than he should have.  I am assuming that is a statistic that's not measured, but I would want to know what the average distance from the goal was for him vs. everyone else in the top ten.

They are almost all Centers who almost exclusively shot no footers.

Post shots are a lot more difficult than fans give credit for. Making 62.1% of them is an amazing accomplishment. Fischer was an elite offensive player. Unfortunately he was only an average rebounder (for his size) and a poor defender.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: warriorchick on May 19, 2017, 12:24:47 PM
False. Per hoop-math, 55% of his attempts were at the rim. He made an insane 82.8% of them (team made 67%). 2pt jumpers (not a layup or dunk) he hit a strong 42.3% on (team was 37.3%).

His shooting was great, and he put up a healthy amount of attempts

If this was true, I stand corrected, but I am certain that he missed at least 2-3 shots per game because his layup didn't fall when he could have dunked it.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 19, 2017, 12:53:59 PM
If this was true, I stand corrected, but I am certain that he missed at least 2-3 shots per game because his layup didn't fall when he could have dunked it.

Luke played 89 games for Marquette and missed a total of 252 shots (2.8 per game). If what you are certain of were true, then virtually every shot he ever missed in his entire career was a layup that didn't fall when he could have dunked it.

As I don't have the exact numbers Jay Bee is using in front of me, I can extrapolate that approximately 300 of his 666 career attempts for Marquette were 2-point jumpers, and he missed 127 of those. That means he only missed 125 shots in his career that were at the rim, an average of at most 1.4 per game.

It seems unlikely that every one of those was a missed layup that he could have dunked, maybe half of them were layups that could have been dunks, so figure about 0.7 times per game. Understandably frustrating, but probably not nearly as glaring a deficit as it felt at times.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Marcus92 on May 19, 2017, 12:57:14 PM
The ranks look odd, though. What players are you excluding? (E.g. Clearly you're excluding guys who haven't played X minutes or taken X shots or something similar)

It's from Sports Reference. I know you're not a fan, Jay Bee — you've commented a number of times about issues with statistical formulas, etc. But even I can calculate eFG%. That's about as simple a stat as there is. Hard to screw that one up.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/big-east/leaders/efg-pct-player-career.html (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/big-east/leaders/efg-pct-player-career.html)

Minimum 400 total field goals made, 4 field goals made per game played.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Marcus92 on May 19, 2017, 01:22:40 PM
Post shots are a lot more difficult than fans give credit for. Making 62.1% of them is an amazing accomplishment.

Agreed. A lot of fans focus on the distance alone. Yes, 2-footers and 5-footers are easy shots — without a defender to contend with. They're anything but gimmes when there's another big man (say 6-10, 250 pounds, 7+ foot wingspan) leaning on you with as much of his weight as possible and trying to block it from less than a foot away.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: warriorchick on May 19, 2017, 02:06:37 PM
Luke played 89 games for Marquette and missed a total of 252 shots (2.8 per game). If what you are certain of were true, then virtually every shot he ever missed in his entire career was a layup that didn't fall when he could have dunked it.

As I don't have the exact numbers Jay Bee is using in front of me, I can extrapolate that approximately 300 of his 666 career attempts for Marquette were 2-point jumpers, and he missed 127 of those. That means he only missed 125 shots in his career that were at the rim, an average of at most 1.4 per game.

It seems unlikely that every one of those was a missed layup that he could have dunked, maybe half of them were layups that could have been dunks, so figure about 0.7 times per game. Understandably frustrating, but probably not nearly as glaring a deficit as it felt at times.

What about last season?   I think that's one area where he regressed from when he first started playing for us. Last year I thought he looked hesitant to power it up, perhaps because of his shoulder.

It could just be perception, just like you notice miss free throw shots more.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Marcus92 on May 19, 2017, 02:21:12 PM
What about last season?   I think that's one area where he regressed from when he first started playing for us. Last year I thought he looked hesitant to power it up, perhaps because of his shoulder.

It could just be perception, just like you notice miss free throw shots more.

While his minutes and scoring per game were down slightly last season, Luke posted career highs for offensive rating (124.5, good for 56th best in the country according to KenPom), usage (20.6%), eFG% (64.7%), offensive rebounding percentage (13.3%, or 48th best nationally), defensive rebounding percentage (16.3%), assist rate (9.5%), turnover rate (13.6%, more accurately a career low) and steal percentage (1.4%).

Luke certainly had his limitations. But he won't be easily replaced.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: oldwarrior81 on May 19, 2017, 02:25:24 PM
interesting that their history of the BigEast ignores the early years prior to 1986.  I think Ewing only had one season shooting less than 63% on a few more shot attempts.
I guess post-1985 is referring to the 3-pt era.


also what kind of efg% would Chris Mullin put up if the 3 was in play back in the day?    He ended his St John's career as a 55% shooter from the field.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Marcus92 on May 19, 2017, 02:31:57 PM
interesting that their history of the BigEast ignores the early years prior to 1986. I guess they are only referring to the 3-pt era. I think Ewing only had one season shooting less than 63%.

Patrick Ewing and others are notable omissions. I'm not quite sure why; without the 3-point shot, effective field goal percentage is the exact same as field goal percentage.

BTW, Ewing shot 62.0% for his college career at Georgetown. Ranking him just behind the aforementioned Luke Fischer.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: oldwarrior81 on May 19, 2017, 03:17:00 PM
Mutombo was 64.4% career from '89-91, which falls within the date range.

I guess the key part of that list is:
Statistical coverage for seasons prior to 1992-93 is mostly complete, however some statistics may be incomplete.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Jay Bee on May 19, 2017, 03:52:08 PM
Mutombo was 64.4% career from '89-91, which falls within the date range.

I guess the key part of that list is:
Statistical coverage for seasons prior to 1992-93 is mostly complete, however some statistics may be incomplete.

Aka "sports-reference is badly flawed and if you get your data from there, bad move."
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: MU82 on May 19, 2017, 04:46:58 PM
While his minutes and scoring per game were down slightly last season, Luke posted career highs for offensive rating (124.5, good for 56th best in the country according to KenPom), usage (20.6%), eFG% (64.7%), offensive rebounding percentage (13.3%, or 48th best nationally), defensive rebounding percentage (16.3%), assist rate (9.5%), turnover rate (13.6%, more accurately a career low) and steal percentage (1.4%).

Luke certainly had his limitations. But he won't be easily replaced.

Or, as a few Luke-hatin' Scoopers might say, "He'll be easily replaced by a box of rocks."
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on May 20, 2017, 06:08:47 AM
Or, as a few Luke-hatin' Scoopers might say, "He'll be easily replaced by a box of rocks."

Plz put me into that category
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: MU82 on May 20, 2017, 06:13:55 AM
Plz put me into that category
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2017, 07:20:35 AM
Plz put me into that category
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Jay Bee on May 20, 2017, 07:26:19 AM
Minimum 400 total field goals made, 4 field goals made per game played.

In other words, a lot of the best players who leave early after a year or two are excluded. So when you say "career eFG% in Big East history", you need to understand what it's really saying..

Justin Patton was excellent - 69.2% - but he gets ignored as a Big East player in your list.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 20, 2017, 10:02:05 AM
Arguably, the most horrid poster on Scoop.
Is it arguable at this point?
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Herman Cain on May 20, 2017, 01:05:22 PM
Not to slam Fischy, but 99% of his shots were no-footers, and he still missed way more than he should have.  I am assuming that is a statistic that's not measured, but I would want to know what the average distance from the goal was for him vs. everyone else in the top ten.
I think your confusing Luke with STjr and his missed bunnies  8-)
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Marcus92 on May 21, 2017, 12:06:22 PM
In other words, a lot of the best players who leave early after a year or two are excluded. So when you say "career eFG% in Big East history", you need to understand what it's really saying..

Justin Patton was excellent - 69.2% - but he gets ignored as a Big East player in your list.

Appreciate the clarification — but that's true of every career statistical list. Players like Tyler Hansbrough and J.J. Redick are among the Top 25 career scorers in NCAA college basketball history. Kevin Durant, meanwhile, is absent, because he only stayed for one year.

Another example: MU's all-time scoring list. Was Jerel McNeal a better scorer than George Thompson? Jerel scored more points during his career, but played one more year and 43 more games than Thompson did. And while Dwyane Wade doesn't even crack the Top 25, he's easily the greatest scorer I've seen at Marquette in almost 30 years.

It's not a perfect list. No list is. (Personally, I'm baffled as to why a site focused on college basketball statistics would be missing player data from within the past 30 years.) But I still think it's interesting and wanted to share it here.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Jay Bee on May 21, 2017, 02:08:17 PM
Appreciate the clarification — but that's true of every career statistical list. Players like Tyler Hansbrough and J.J. Redick are among the Top 25 career scorers in NCAA college basketball history. Kevin Durant, meanwhile, is absent, because he only stayed for one year.

No, different issues. Durant isn't on the list because he didn't score the points. Patton isn't even though he did shoot the eFG%. That's why it's important to note the minimums, exclusions, etc.

It's not a perfect list. No list is. (Personally, I'm baffled as to why a site focused on college basketball statistics would be missing player data from within the past 30 years.) But I still think it's interesting and wanted to share it here.

Don't be baffled. I've warned about using that site before.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on May 21, 2017, 09:49:17 PM
Agree with the knocks against this list, if the lust sonehow argues that Luke was anything near one if tge vetter players to pkay in the BE then the lust is s#it.  Its really that simple.  Long illystrious list of players from the BE n luke belings no where on it
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: wadesworld on May 21, 2017, 09:53:42 PM
Agree with the knocks against this list, if the lust sonehow argues that Luke was anything near one if tge vetter players to pkay in the BE then the lust is s#it.  Its really that simple.  Long illystrious list of players from the BE n luke belings no where on it

Wow.  Luke fires you up to the point of being incomprehensible.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2017, 09:54:08 PM
Dude, what are you smokin'?
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 21, 2017, 09:57:28 PM
Agree with the knocks against this list, if the lust sonehow argues that Luke was anything near one if tge vetter players to pkay in the BE then the lust is s#it.  Its really that simple.  Long illystrious list of players from the BE n luke belings no where on it

So is this your attempt at a 4ever impression? Because you aren't on his level
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on May 21, 2017, 11:06:06 PM
Lol
Some typos in there should prolly proof read before i post it
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Marcus92 on May 22, 2017, 12:15:57 AM
No, different issues. Durant isn't on the list because he didn't score the points. Patton isn't even though he did shoot the eFG%. That's why it's important to note the minimums, exclusions, etc.

Sorry, bad example. A better one would have been Kevin Durant's scoring average in his freshman year at Texas not qualifying for the NCAA career leaders. BTW, 400 FG and 4 FG/G is the same minimum used for career FG% in the NCAA record book.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Marcus92 on May 22, 2017, 01:17:28 AM
A couple more notes:

Luke is now Marquette's all-time career leader in FG%, ahead of Ric Cobb's 58.8%. In his 89 games at MU, he also finished with 153 blocks — good for 4th on the all-time list. That's just ahead of Chris Otule, who blocked 145 shots in 124 games.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 22, 2017, 01:31:23 AM
What Luke did well, he did at a near elite level. He's the best multi year big of his generation and best big period since Robert Jackson.

Yes, there are knocks, but on the whole he was a very good player for us and only an idiot would assert otherwise.
Title: Re: Who's second in career eFG% in Big East history?
Post by: Marcus92 on May 22, 2017, 02:50:15 PM
Mutombo was 64.4% career from '89-91, which falls within the date range.

I've been curious about Mutombo's exclusion since you posted this and finally looked it up. Dikembe only played 3 seasons at Georgetown, and finished with just 352 career made field goals. So he doesn't meet the NCAA's minimum standard for FG% (400 FG and 4 FG/G).