MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: WarhawkWarrior on April 30, 2017, 08:58:20 PM

Title: Will Froling's Friend be a Walkon?
Post by: WarhawkWarrior on April 30, 2017, 08:58:20 PM
Just heard his friend is coming to MU on an academic  scholly.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: GoldenDieners32 on April 30, 2017, 08:59:39 PM
Just heard his bro is coming to MU on an academic  scholly.
not his brother his friend, he announced he's coming here yesterday
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: GoldenDieners32 on April 30, 2017, 09:00:03 PM
His name is Jacob Rose btw
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: WarhawkWarrior on April 30, 2017, 09:00:59 PM
Oops, sorry.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: GoldenDieners32 on April 30, 2017, 09:21:27 PM
Sounds like he wants to play though
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: jesmu84 on April 30, 2017, 09:26:04 PM
Oops, sorry.

Probably would be good to change the thread title
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: MarquetteDano on April 30, 2017, 09:43:17 PM
Probably would be good to change the thread title

Can just change "Bro" to "Brah" and it's all good.   ;D
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: wadesworld on April 30, 2017, 09:45:31 PM
Can just change "Bro" to "Brah" and it's all good.   ;D

Dude, get with the times.  It's "bruh" now.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: Herman Cain on April 30, 2017, 09:57:04 PM
Just heard his bro is coming to MU on an academic  scholly.
It is his friend.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on May 01, 2017, 09:18:42 AM
Sounds like he wants to play though

Don't think you can walk on while receiving an academic scholarship. Could be wrong though - JayBee or anyone else know?
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 01, 2017, 10:12:44 AM
Don't think you can walk on while receiving an academic scholarship. Could be wrong though - JayBee or anyone else know?

I'm pretty sure you're wrong on this.  I believe there are NCAA rules that set some standards -- not the least of which is that it has to be pursuant to a scholarship program available to everyone.  Different sport, but I have first hand knowledge of an athlete who was offered a full-tuition academic scholarship for the freshman year packaged with four years athletic after that.  I was also surprised to learn that even scholarship players can get academic scholarships which reduce the amount that the athletic department must pay toward the athlete (but I'm not 100% sure that this applies to "fully funded" programs). 
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on May 01, 2017, 10:56:41 AM
I'm pretty sure you're wrong on this.  I believe there are NCAA rules that set some standards -- not the least of which is that it has to be pursuant to a scholarship program available to everyone.  Different sport, but I have first hand knowledge of an athlete who was offered a full-tuition academic scholarship for the freshman year packaged with four years athletic after that.  I was also surprised to learn that even scholarship players can get academic scholarships which reduce the amount that the athletic department must pay toward the athlete (but I'm not 100% sure that this applies to "fully funded" programs).

Yeah I think you can do that for track, soccer, etc. but I think basketball & football are treated differently.

Again, could be wrong
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: Newsdreams on May 01, 2017, 11:12:11 AM
Yeah I think you can do that for track, soccer, etc. but I think basketball & football are treated differently.

Again, could be wrong
Was clarified to me on twitter by True~Golden~Eagles
Can be done but student must be
Top 10% of his class with at least 3.5 GPA SAT at least 1200 or sum ACT 105
Title: Re: Will Froling's Friend be a Walkon?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on May 01, 2017, 11:17:40 AM
I too wonder if he is planning to walk on.

His twitter post said he tore an ACL recently, but a quick google search shows that he didn't exactly tear up HS hoops.  Assuming its the same guy, link I found showed he averaged 1.5 PPG as a junior in 13 GP. 
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on May 01, 2017, 11:39:48 AM
Was clarified to me on twitter by True~Golden~Eagles
Can be done but student must be
Top 10% of his class with at least 3.5 GPA SAT at least 1200 or sum ACT 105

Interesting... Did the SAT go back to 1600? Been out the game a while (but took it when it was 1600)

Those standards seem... lax to me. Like why wouldn't more schools take advantage to use more athletic schollies?
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 01, 2017, 11:41:41 AM
Was clarified to me on twitter by True~Golden~Eagles
Can be done but student must be
Top 10% of his class with at least 3.5 GPA SAT at least 1200 or sum ACT 105

Wouldn't Howard likely be eligible for an academic scholarship then?
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: Newsdreams on May 01, 2017, 11:51:25 AM
Wouldn't Howard likely be eligible for an academic scholarship then?
I imagine, but I bet he is not getting 100% tuition. As would a basketball scholarship that is probably the difference.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Friend be a Walkon?
Post by: GOO on May 01, 2017, 12:25:27 PM
Doesn't the Ivy League technically offer no athletic scholarships?  But aren't the players who often have lesser credentials than most students end up on need based scholarships anyway? I know most players at Harvard now qualify for no fees/tuition simply if there household income is low enough... but I don't think that it true for all Ivy League schools, especially in the past.

If yes, to both, which I believe is the case, then any school should be able to offer need based or academic scholarships, I'd think.  To not run afoul of the NCAA the student better be a great student and be awarded the scholarship solely on academic achievement, diversity, need, etc.  I'm sure MU would cross all its t's and clear it with the NCAA and not use this to hide a player on the roster who is truly recruited as an athlete.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 01, 2017, 12:26:52 PM
Wouldn't Howard likely be eligible for an academic scholarship then?

Even a full tuition scholarship leaves an awful lot for someone to pay.  I've seen figures suggesting that it would be in the neighborhood of $14k per year at Marquette.  I'm sure someone posting on this board could give an accurate number.  So, even at that extremely high level of scholarship, the difference between academic and athletic scholarship is in the neighborhood of $60k over the student's four years.  Even if they have the finances to pay the difference, I don't think that there are too many families out there who have a kid who merits a full ride who are going to want to walk on and pay the difference.

And, in addition to meeting the NCAA's criteria, I think they probably get scrutinized to make sure that the athlete is comparable to others receiving the scholarship. I'm pretty sure that there is an NCAA regulation that says that the academic aid must be available to others with comparable resume.  In other words, if a 3.5 GPA and 1200 SAT wouldn't merit a scholarship for a non-athlete, it can't be offered to an athlete.  Does anyone know what it takes to get a full tuition scholarship at MU?  I'd venture it's a hell of a lot higher than 3.5/1200.  On this issue, has anyone ever noticed that Alabama has generous academic scholarships (http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out-of-state.php) for out-of-state students based on grades -- starting at 3.5 and 1210?  Coincidence?

Also, if he's got the academic resume to justify it, it's quite possible that Howard is getting an academic scholarship.  The team can save money from it's budget if the players get academic scholarships to supplement the athletic scholarship.  I'm pretty sure that if a player gets a $10k academic scholarship, that is just $10k that won't hit the BB budget.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Friend be a Walkon?
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 01, 2017, 12:43:52 PM
Doesn't the Ivy League technically offer no athletic scholarships?  But aren't the players who often have lesser credentials than most students end up on need based scholarships anyway? I know most players at Harvard now qualify for no fees/tuition simply if there household income is low enough... but I don't think that it true for all Ivy League schools, especially in the past.

If yes, to both, which I believe is the case, then any school should be able to offer need based or academic scholarships, I'd think.  To not run afoul of the NCAA the student better be a great student and be awarded the scholarship solely on academic achievement, diversity, need, etc.  I'm sure MU would cross all its t's and clear it with the NCAA and not use this to hide a player on the roster who is truly recruited as an athlete.

You're generally correct about the Ivy League -- they do offer need based aid to all students.  It is true that the academic standards can be lower for athletes.  How that is handled varies a bit from school to school (and probably from sport to sport, even within the school).  I'm not sure it's true that "most" students qualify for no tuition/fees, but their financial aid is far more generous than most.  Based upon Harvard's calculator, a family income of $150k will result in pretty much tuition free -- but would still leave an estimated $19k+ per year.  That's much better aid that you'll get at most schools at that income range, but still $80k over four years.  At $75k income, the cost is about $7k.  A great deal, but still not "no fees/tuition."  We looked very closely at the Ivy League situation for a recruited athlete, but the finances just didn't work out for us.  We're far from rich, but even with the generous financial aid, we didn't think it was as good as the other option available at the time.  But by all means, if you're an academically motivated athlete with a low to mid income, you'd be crazy not to at least check out the Ivies.  Another thing to know:  if they want you, you can play them against each other on financial aid (e.g., Columbia might say, "tell us what Harvard offers, and we'll match it").

And schools can offer aid to athletes -- both need and academic.  They just have to be careful to do it right.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Friend be a Walkon?
Post by: Jay Bee on May 01, 2017, 02:05:02 PM
There are certain non-athletic aid exemptions available
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: forgetful on May 01, 2017, 02:37:21 PM
Wouldn't Howard likely be eligible for an academic scholarship then?

This has been discussed before.  Howard, may be eligible for an academic scholarship.  But he would have to apply to the university as a student, become admitted, and apply for academic scholarships that the entire student body is eligible for.  He would then be considered as a general student, independent on basketball.

The basketball staff cannot guarantee anything, cannot offer a scholarship or intervene in anyway to facilitate the scholarship. 

The basketball scholarship is a guarantee, it covers the full cost of tuition, guaranteed. 

Athletes of Howard's caliber are not going to sit back and wait and hope they earn the academic scholarship when other schools will give the basketball guarantee.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 01, 2017, 04:53:46 PM
This has been discussed before.  Howard, may be eligible for an academic scholarship.  But he would have to apply to the university as a student, become admitted, and apply for academic scholarships that the entire student body is eligible for.  He would then be considered as a general student, independent on basketball.

The basketball staff cannot guarantee anything, cannot offer a scholarship or intervene in anyway to facilitate the scholarship. 

The basketball scholarship is a guarantee, it covers the full cost of tuition, guaranteed. 

Athletes of Howard's caliber are not going to sit back and wait and hope they earn the academic scholarship when other schools will give the basketball guarantee.

Makes sense. I guess when I think of a high school valedictorian that graduated in 3yrs I imagine they're usually able to get full ride academic scholarships.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: warriorchick on May 01, 2017, 05:26:51 PM
Makes sense. I guess when I think of a high school valedictorian that graduated in 3yrs I imagine they're usually able to get full ride academic scholarships.

I don't know what the exact numbers are for recent years, but I know for a fact that about 5 years ago that they had a freshman class that had over 50 high school valedictorians in it. I believe that the number of full academic schollys are fewer than a dozen, and I am pretty sure that none of them include room and board.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Friend be a Walkon?
Post by: Dawson Rental on May 01, 2017, 05:32:17 PM
Valedictorians........ no matta.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: Herman Cain on May 01, 2017, 08:26:24 PM
Even a full tuition scholarship leaves an awful lot for someone to pay.  I've seen figures suggesting that it would be in the neighborhood of $14k per year at Marquette.  I'm sure someone posting on this board could give an accurate number.  So, even at that extremely high level of scholarship, the difference between academic and athletic scholarship is in the neighborhood of $60k over the student's four years.  Even if they have the finances to pay the difference, I don't think that there are too many families out there who have a kid who merits a full ride who are going to want to walk on and pay the difference.

And, in addition to meeting the NCAA's criteria, I think they probably get scrutinized to make sure that the athlete is comparable to others receiving the scholarship. I'm pretty sure that there is an NCAA regulation that says that the academic aid must be available to others with comparable resume.  In other words, if a 3.5 GPA and 1200 SAT wouldn't merit a scholarship for a non-athlete, it can't be offered to an athlete.  Does anyone know what it takes to get a full tuition scholarship at MU?  I'd venture it's a hell of a lot higher than 3.5/1200.  On this issue, has anyone ever noticed that Alabama has generous academic scholarships (http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out-of-state.php) for out-of-state students based on grades -- starting at 3.5 and 1210?  Coincidence?

Also, if he's got the academic resume to justify it, it's quite possible that Howard is getting an academic scholarship.  The team can save money from it's budget if the players get academic scholarships to supplement the athletic scholarship.  I'm pretty sure that if a player gets a $10k academic scholarship, that is just $10k that won't hit the BB budget.
As far as I know there are no full tuition scholarships at MU. If there was one we could have given it to Markus.

The NCAA rule  above relates to academic scholarships in partial scholarship sports. They are called stackable scholarships in that you can put an academic award on top of an athletic award if you hit that hurdle.

There is another caveat though, in that the academic award has to be awarded purely for academics and cannot take into account things like leadership etc.  I have seen circumstances where athletes qualified for the more general scholarship and was told they could only take the athletic .

Another rule is that Football and Basketball cannot hide players on other sports scholarships. That is why Wally Ellenson could not play basketball if he accepted the full ride track scholarship that last year. This rule was put in place because Florida State and others were  putting football players on track scholarships.




Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: warriorchick on May 01, 2017, 08:46:46 PM
As far as I know there are no full tuition scholarships at MU.


Well if MUFINY says there's no full tuition scholarships, that settles it.


JK

http://marquette.edu/explore/scholarships-burke.php

http://marquette.edu/explore/scholarships-engineering.php

http://marquette.edu/explore/scholarships-urban-scholars.php
Title: Re: Will Froling's Friend be a Walkon?
Post by: WarriorPride68 on May 01, 2017, 08:53:22 PM
I too wonder if he is planning to walk on.

His twitter post said he tore an ACL recently, but a quick google search shows that he didn't exactly tear up HS hoops.  Assuming its the same guy, link I found showed he averaged 1.5 PPG as a junior in 13 GP.

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/3oEdv1uvUApQeiXpU4/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Will Froling's Friend be a Walkon?
Post by: Jay Bee on May 01, 2017, 09:06:49 PM
MU Fan In NY's mind is so crap in certain ways. It's shocking. Hopefully he's got a warriorchick or me boxing his a$$ into shape. Good grief.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: Herman Cain on May 01, 2017, 09:11:35 PM
Well if MUFINY says there's no full tuition scholarships, that settles it.


JK

http://marquette.edu/explore/scholarships-burke.php

http://marquette.edu/explore/scholarships-engineering.php

http://marquette.edu/explore/scholarships-urban-scholars.php
I meant there were no easy full ride scholarships .
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: warriorchick on May 01, 2017, 09:12:55 PM
I meant there were no easy full ride scholarships .

Nice revisionist history there.....

By the way there are never any easy full ride scholarships, academic or otherwise.
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 01, 2017, 09:23:15 PM
I meant there were no easy full ride scholarships .

Do these have any relation to easy rebounds?
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: Newsdreams on May 01, 2017, 10:27:43 PM
Do these have any relation to easy rebounds?
Think probably has to do with neck size
Title: Re: Will Froling's Bro be a Walkon?
Post by: Herman Cain on May 01, 2017, 10:30:08 PM
Do these have any relation to easy rebounds?
Yes.