MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: fjm on April 03, 2017, 01:47:33 PM
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Done deal.
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My gut says this will be a disaster
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I make no predictions. I thought Mullin was going to be a disaster, but he seems to be growing into it. Maybe Ewing will, too.
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A huge hire. Literally.
Now Wojo needs to find a big for the coaching staff to help win the Big East Noon-ball Tournament.
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I just can't see Ewing wanting to do what it takes to recruit at a high level, but I certainly don't know the guy personally. I just get that feeling.
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Ewing is a strange fit. But he put his time in as an assistant. I'm hoping it works out to the tune of us beating them twice every year.
Should be an interesting hire.
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This seems like a total gamble to me. On the one hand, Ewing has paid his dues and by all accounts has been deeply committed to developing coaching skills. His humility to be an assistant for so long for so many different coaches shows that he's willing to do what it takes to grow. On the other hand, he's been gunning to be a head coach for a while now. So why did it take so long? Other NBA teams and colleges must have considered him, but passed. This seems like truly a coin-flip scenario.
Heads or tails, it's going to be a ride.
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To me, it seems like both sides had to talk themselves into this deal. I don't know, but I think that doesn't bode well here. In my mind it reminds me (somewhat) of the Sox hiring Robin Ventura as manager. Ewing obviously has coaching experience, but he wants to be an NBA head coach, not a college coach.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19069306/patrick-ewing-returns-georgetown-hoyas-coach
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Keep an eye on Western Kentucky assistant coach Shammond Williams, who played with Ewing with the Sonics, as a possible Georgetown assistant
Shammond Williams played a huge role in recruiting 2017 McDonald's All-American and consenus top 5 2017 recruit, 7'0" Mitchell Robinson & top 40 Josh Anderson to Western Kentucky. Turns out Williams is Mitchell Robinson's god father, so could Williams possibly bring Robinson with him?
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If he surrounds himself with good assistants, I think this could work.
I would think he'd be a darn good recruiter who could sell mommies on himself and on the wonderful GT experience: "I know because I lived it. I won a national title, I was the No. 1 pick in the NBA draft and I got my college degree. Georgetown knows how to turn out great young men - and so do I."
As for the X's and O's, who knows if he'll be any good? Also, coaches who were superstars sometimes get frustrated when young players don't have the kind of passion, work ethic, etc as they did. As always, ego management and ability to motivate are more important than X's and O's.
As another poster said, the man paid his dues. I like seeing guys like this rewarded. I hope he does great in all but 2 games every year (or 3 if there's a BE tourney matchup).
Mike
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I will reserve judgment. It could work. If he gets a couple experienced assistants who have previously been head coaches, and a couple really good recruiters, who knows. His name brings a lot of cache. It is a recruiting tool in and of itself.
Bottom line is I doubt it could be any worse than JTIII. They have nothing to lose. Might as well take a shot on one of your most famous alumni...
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If he surrounds himself with good assistants, I think this could work.
I would think he'd be a darn good recruiter who could sell mommies on himself and on the wonderful GT experience: "I know because I lived it. I won a national title, I was the No. 1 pick in the NBA draft and I got my college degree. Georgetown knows how to turn out great young men - and so do I."
As for the X's and O's, who knows if he'll be any good? Also, coaches who were superstars sometimes get frustrated when young players don't have the kind of passion, work ethic, etc as they did. As always, ego management and ability to motivate are more important than X's and O's.
As another poster said, the man paid his dues. I like seeing guys like this rewarded. I hope he does great in all but 2 games every year (or 3 if there's a BE tourney matchup).
Mike
I would hate to beat them 3 times and then lose to them in the NCAA Tournament.
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I don't know about cache, but Ewing's name definitely brings cachet.
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Could this be a good hire? Absolutely. I think Ewing is more likely to install an appealing play style then JT3, and I think he's smart enough to build a solid staff to acclimate him to the college game.
That said, I'm not a fan of how this transpired. Getting turned down 4 times to settle on the alumni option is a bad look.
Interesting question, which looks "worse" from the outsider perspective? Georgetown being turned down publicly by numerous targets and selling on the effective "interior hire", or Marquette not putting out as many feelers and virtually going straight to the interior hire of Buzz Williams in 2008?
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Look, loyalty means you hire people like Bill Guthridge at UNC, Hank or Rick at our place or even Joey at DePaul. All had been Associates or Assistants under very successful head coaches.
But Georgetown and Ewing. Dumb, dumb dumb!
I'm sure Patrick Ewing is a smart guy and knows basketball. But he has NO coaching experience. No recruiting experience and No administrative/compliance experience. All are important in a head coach. I'm guessing JTII is behind this one.
Kinda like us choosing Bo Ellis, Butch Lee, Maurice Lucas, Bernard Toone or George Thompson as our head coaches. All were tremendous Warriors but not ready for prime time at a program that seeks to position itself as an elite program.
We shall see.
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Look, loyalty means you hire people like Bill Guthridge at UNC, Hank or Rick at our place or even Joey at DePaul. All had been Associates or Assistants under very successful head coaches.
But Georgetown and Ewing. Dumb, dumb dumb!
I'm sure Patrick Ewing is a smart guy and knows basketball. But he has NO coaching experience. No recruiting experience and No administrative/compliance experience. All are important in a head coach. I'm guessing JTII is behind this one.
Kinda like us choosing Bo Ellis, Butch Lee, Maurice Lucas, Bernard Toone or George Thompson as our head coaches. All were tremendous Warriors but not ready for prime time at a program that seeks to position itself as an elite program.
We shall see.
Ewing has been an assistant in the NBA for 14 years and was considered one of the up-and-coming coaching prospects. Was a finalist for the Sacramento Kings job last year.
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Keep an eye on Western Kentucky assistant coach Shammond Williams, who played with Ewing with the Sonics, as a possible Georgetown assistant
Shammond Williams played a huge role in recruiting 2017 McDonald's All-American and consenus top 5 2017 recruit, 7'0" Mitchell Robinson & top 40 Josh Anderson to Western Kentucky. Turns out Williams is Mitchell Robinson's god father, so could Williams possibly bring Robinson with him?
Part of JTIII's demise was not keeping the DC area kids home. One of his assistants needs to be local and have ties to the high schools and AAU programs in Virginia, Maryland and DC. He gets those recruits to stay and he should be fine.
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To me, it seems like both sides had to talk themselves into this deal. I don't know, but I think that doesn't bode well here. In my mind it reminds me (somewhat) of the Sox hiring Robin Ventura as manager. Ewing obviously has coaching experience, but he wants to be an NBA head coach, not a college coach.
Have to say, I don't see much in common in those two hirings at all.
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Coach Ewing, I welcome you back to the Big East with open arms... on one condition.
You need to do what Mullin was too cowardly to do and bring back the short shorts.
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If he surrounds himself with good assistants, I think this could work.
I would think he'd be a darn good recruiter who could sell mommies on himself and on the wonderful GT experience: "I know because I lived it. I won a national title, I was the No. 1 pick in the NBA draft and I got my college degree. Georgetown knows how to turn out great young men - and so do I."
As for the X's and O's, who knows if he'll be any good? Also, coaches who were superstars sometimes get frustrated when young players don't have the kind of passion, work ethic, etc as they did. As always, ego management and ability to motivate are more important than X's and O's.
As another poster said, the man paid his dues. I like seeing guys like this rewarded. I hope he does great in all but 2 games every year (or 3 if there's a BE tourney matchup).
Mike
Great line bro. Are you vying for an assistant's spot at Gtown?
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Could this be a good hire? Absolutely. I think Ewing is more likely to install an appealing play style then JT3, and I think he's smart enough to build a solid staff to acclimate him to the college game.
That said, I'm not a fan of how this transpired. Getting turned down 4 times to settle on the alumni option is a bad look.
Interesting question, which looks "worse" from the outsider perspective? Georgetown being turned down publicly by numerous targets and selling on the effective "interior hire", or Marquette not putting out as many feelers and virtually going straight to the interior hire of Buzz Williams in 2008?
The outsiders are not even worried about this. G'town aimed high and got a guy that they knew they could get. If any firing was ripped on was NC State, while the season was still going on.
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Look, loyalty means you hire people like Bill Guthridge at UNC, Hank or Rick at our place or even Joey at DePaul. All had been Associates or Assistants under very successful head coaches.
But Georgetown and Ewing. Dumb, dumb dumb!
I'm sure Patrick Ewing is a smart guy and knows basketball. But he has NO coaching experience. No recruiting experience and No administrative/compliance experience. All are important in a head coach. I'm guessing JTII is behind this one.
Kinda like us choosing Bo Ellis, Butch Lee, Maurice Lucas, Bernard Toone or George Thompson as our head coaches. All were tremendous Warriors but not ready for prime time at a program that seeks to position itself as an elite program.
We shall see.
in a way, more like MU choosing 20-year NBA assistant coach Jim Boylan.
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The outsiders are not even worried about this. G'town aimed high and got a guy that they knew they could get. If any firing was ripped on was NC State, while the season was still going on.
They aimed high and got shot down by Mike Brey, Shaka Smart, Ed Cooley, and Chris Mack. Hard to justify you "got your guy" when options 1, 2, 3, and 4 all said no.
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They aimed high and got shot down by Mike Brey, Shaka Smart, Ed Cooley, and Chris Mack. Hard to justify you "got your guy" when options 1, 2, 3, and 4 all said no.
Just a hypothetical:
What if the GU Admin wanted to stay in the JTII tree, but needed to appease donors and fans who wanted to see the program go in a different direction? How would they go about doing that?
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Could this be a good hire? Absolutely. I think Ewing is more likely to install an appealing play style then JT3, and I think he's smart enough to build a solid staff to acclimate him to the college game.
That said, I'm not a fan of how this transpired. Getting turned down 4 times to settle on the alumni option is a bad look.
Interesting question, which looks "worse" from the outsider perspective? Georgetown being turned down publicly by numerous targets and selling on the effective "interior hire", or Marquette not putting out as many feelers and virtually going straight to the interior hire of Buzz Williams in 2008?
Ultimately, winning the news cycle is less important than winning games. The MU administration had the guts to make the Buzz hire knowing it would be underwhelming, but apparently knew something the rest of us didn't. Apparently Georgetown thought it was important to put out feelers to a number of home run hires even if they thought they were unlikely. If any of them had landed it would've been worth it, and if Georgetown declines from here on out, it will be because Ewing doesn't win, not because they asked four other coaches first.
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Just a hypothetical:
What if the GU Admin wanted to stay in the JTII tree, but needed to appease donors and fans who wanted to see the program go in a different direction? How would they go about doing that?
I'd get Iverson duh
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Coach Ewing, I welcome you back to the Big East with open arms... on one condition.
You need to do what Mullin was too cowardly to do and bring back the short shorts.
There's a few players on SJU who actually wear their shorts super high up.
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Just a hypothetical:
What if the GU Admin wanted to stay in the JTII tree, but needed to appease donors and fans who wanted to see the program go in a different direction? How would they go about doing that?
You can't do both, and they didn't accomplish both. Getting rebuffed and going in a different direction isn't the same thing.
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It seems pretty obvious that process was a bit of a cluster. But that doesn't mean he'll be a bad coach or that it was a bad hire. As a soon-to-be GU parent, I hope it works out well (aside for 2-4 games per year). I'll give him five years before I decide. ;)
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They aimed high and got shot down by Mike Brey, Shaka Smart, Ed Cooley, and Chris Mack. Hard to justify you "got your guy" when options 1, 2, 3, and 4 all said no.
I'm honestly not convinced that Georgetown actually reached out to all of those coaches. I think there is a lot of misinformation with coaching searches (see #donedeal) and the media will run with rumors. The coaches then have to respond in order to quell any concerns their fanbases, employers or recruits might have. Also, as Goose has alluded in the past that schools will have people around the program quietly make phone calls to possible candidates just to test the waters. Most of the time these calls go no further than that. But I wouldn't be surprised if TCU was just testing the waters with Jamey Dixon and was pleasantly surprised when he wanted to come home.
No idea if the Ewing hire will pan out or not. I like it better than the Mullin hire but I could see it going good or bad.
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Could this be indicative of greater problems within Georgetown and it's administration - that they lack the initiative and the creativity to go outside of the "family" when it's very necessary?
The problem if this doesn't work is it will ride out 3-4 years longer than it should.
The school has been doing what JTII wants since 1972 - they really don't know how to do anything else.
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I'm honestly not convinced that Georgetown actually reached out to all of those coaches. I think there is a lot of misinformation with coaching searches (see #donedeal) and the media will run with rumors. The coaches then have to respond in order to quell any concerns their fanbases, employers or recruits might have. Also, as Goose has alluded in the past that schools will have people around the program quietly make phone calls to possible candidates just to test the waters. Most of the time these calls go no further than that. But I wouldn't be surprised if TCU was just testing the waters with Jamey Dixon and was pleasantly surprised when he wanted to come home.
No idea if the Ewing hire will pan out or not. I like it better than the Mullin hire but I could see it going good or bad.
Yeah. And a lot of coaches get their names thrown into the rumor mill because it's in their own best interest. Someone they are tight with in the media gets a text from someone "in the know" that says there's interest in X coach to Y school and wahlah, all of a sudden coach X has been offered by school Y to the public, despite school Y never doing anything more than have someone behind the scenes test the temperature of the water in the event that plans A, B, and C don't work out and they can fall back to coach X.
Just happened with Alford at Indiana. "Alford's an Indiana guy. He's killing it with UCLA this year! Alford to Indiana!" The reality is if Alford had actually been offered he would be IU's coach. There's a reason that he never said anything about being at UCLA beyond this year until the day before Miller was hired. For weeks before IU made their hire Alford simply said, "I'm focused on this season" and nothing about not going anywhere. Then suddenly, after his season is over no less, he all of a sudden "100% won't be IU's coach?" Alford no doubt got word that IU was hiring Miller and he was not a candidate and saved face by saying he loved being at UCLA, when in reality I would be entirely shocked if he was ever offered the job like it was rumored. If he had been offered the job and turned it down, or had no interest in it, why let it hang out there with a non-committal answer to whether he was leaving UCLA while UCLA was playing in the NCAA Tournament? Just thought his team might play better with the idea their coach might be leaving them the moment their season ends?
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I'm honestly not convinced that Georgetown actually reached out to all of those coaches. I think there is a lot of misinformation with coaching searches (see #donedeal) and the media will run with rumors. The coaches then have to respond in order to quell any concerns their fanbases, employers or recruits might have. Also, as Goose has alluded in the past that schools will have people around the program quietly make phone calls to possible candidates just to test the waters. Most of the time these calls go no further than that. But I wouldn't be surprised if TCU was just testing the waters with Jamey Dixon and was pleasantly surprised when he wanted to come home.
No idea if the Ewing hire will pan out or not. I like it better than the Mullin hire but I could see it going good or bad.
Completely agree. Coaches saying they aren't considering a school says very little about whether the school has real interest in them. Here, we have no proof G'town earnestly pursued any of the 4 mentioned.
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Maybe Gtown didn't dig in deep with any of those candidates, but (1) Ewing doesn't get hired if they could get one of those candidates, and (2) one way or another, Gtown was sure it couldn't get one of those candidates before Ewing was hired.
Only caveat to that is if Ewing was a compromise between the school and JTII as a condition to JTII not blowing the place up, and the slow burn was to give alumni time to come around to the Ewing hire. Nothing would aid the process of alumni warming up to Ewing than being humbled by leaks that other candidates had politely declined.
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The guy coached a decade plus under both Van Gundys & Steve Clifford. Those three are widely regarded as three of the most prepared and detailed coaches in the league.
I used to let a Van Gundys assistant use my desk late night after advance scouting the Bucks, the detail was astounding. And he said it was off the charts compared to other programs. If he put in 13+ years with these guys he learned a thing or two. Anyone comparing this to Bo is way off. Boylan is best example. NBA coaches can really grind.
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So how long does Ewing's rebuild take? And how soon will the "fire Ewing" threads start on GU scoop after they miss the tournament next year?
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So how long does Ewing's rebuild take? And how soon will the "fire Ewing" threads start on GU scoop after they miss the tournament next year?
The latter will occur before the former.
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Ewing has been an assistant in the NBA for 14 years and was considered one of the up-and-coming coaching prospects. Was a finalist for the Sacramento Kings job last year.
You're right to call BS on the previous poster's claim that Ewing has no experience, but if he were truly "one of the up-and-coming coaching prospects," he wouldn't have been an assistant for 14 years.
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I just can't see Ewing wanting to do what it takes to recruit at a high level, but I certainly don't know the guy personally. I just get that feeling.
Ewing was the hardest working athlete I have ever seen. He never took a break. No reason to think he won't work just as hard at coaching and recruiting.
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but if he were truly "one of the up-and-coming coaching prospects," he wouldn't have been an assistant for 14 years.
How long was Wojo an assistant?
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You're right to call BS on the previous poster's claim that Ewing has no experience, but if he were truly "one of the up-and-coming coaching prospects," he wouldn't have been an assistant for 14 years.
Yeah, Roy Williams and Tom Izzo each just hung around as assistants for a dozen-plus years and look at how crappy they've been as head coaches!
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I'm honestly not convinced that Georgetown actually reached out to all of those coaches. I think there is a lot of misinformation with coaching searches (see #donedeal) and the media will run with rumors. The coaches then have to respond in order to quell any concerns their fanbases, employers or recruits might have. Also, as Goose has alluded in the past that schools will have people around the program quietly make phone calls to possible candidates just to test the waters. Most of the time these calls go no further than that. But I wouldn't be surprised if TCU was just testing the waters with Jamey Dixon and was pleasantly surprised when he wanted to come home.
I totally agree with this, TAMU.
I remember Crean putting out a statement that he was withdrawing his name from consideration for the Illinois job after Self left, but I know for a fact that he was not a serious candidate.
"Misinformation" is the right word, and then the rumors feed on themselves. This especially is common with lists of names, as some of the lazier media types just keep repeating the names.
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You're right to call BS on the previous poster's claim that Ewing has no experience, but if he were truly "one of the up-and-coming coaching prospects," he wouldn't have been an assistant for 14 years.
Umm, hello?
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Yeah, Roy Williams and Tom Izzo each just hung around as assistants for a dozen-plus years and look at how crappy they've been as head coaches!
Then there was that Lombardi fellow......
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Then there was that Lombardi fellow......
This ain't the 1950s NFL.
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Yeah, Roy Williams and Tom Izzo each just hung around as assistants for a dozen-plus years and look at how crappy they've been as head coaches!
I never said he would be a crappy coach. I just don't think it's accurate to characterize him as one of the up and coming coaching prospect. For an up and comer he sure got passed over a lot.
Izzo and Roy are different scenarios and from much different eras. Izzo was the coach in waiting at
MSU for years and Roy was extremely loyal to Dean and UNC. Both were college lifers as well. Mullen and Sidney Lowe are the best apples to apples comparisons I can come up with off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others, maybe more successful, examples.
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Then there was Bill Walsch who was an assistant for 16 years before he finally got a head coaching job at Stanford.
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Mullen and Sidney Lowe are the best apples to apples comparisons I can come up with off the top of my head.
Mullin had no coaching experience. he was always in the front office.
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Look, loyalty means you hire people like Bill Guthridge at UNC, Hank or Rick at our place or even Joey at DePaul. All had been Associates or Assistants under very successful head coaches.
But Georgetown and Ewing. Dumb, dumb dumb!
I'm sure Patrick Ewing is a smart guy and knows basketball. But he has NO coaching experience. No recruiting experience and No administrative/compliance experience. All are important in a head coach. I'm guessing JTII is behind this one.
Kinda like us choosing Bo Ellis, Butch Lee, Maurice Lucas, Bernard Toone or George Thompson as our head coaches. All were tremendous Warriors but not ready for prime time at a program that seeks to position itself as an elite program.
We shall see.
He has more coaching experience than Fred Hoiberg had when he took over at Iowa State. That worked out pretty well for both parties.
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Georgetown going the way of Depaul......
This was all about appeasing the alumni......
Be careful what you wish for.....
Should have had a Miller type candidate waiting in the wings before they moved on this.....
Ewing is "so" risky.....and could really damage their franchise.....
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Or..... this is a great hire by Georgetown. A famous alum who has spent the last 15 years learning from the best as an NBA assistant. An instantly recognizable figure that will unify the fanbase. Using his name and NBA experience, he brings in a cadre of really good assistants. After a short blip while he figures our what his system is going to be and installs it, Georgetown returns to its former stature.
A coin flip, really. Every hire is.
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I think it will depend on his agility to recruit bigmen. The downside of this is the really good bigmen only stay one year.
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I think it will depend on his agility to recruit bigmen. The downside of this is the really good bigmen only stay one year.
He is 50+. His agility is shot. So I don't know how being old and slow will help his ability to recruit bigs.
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Ewing's name will be able to recruit......
He is totally an unproven coach with a ton of probably great mentoring......(15 years as assistant)
Is he Buzz and has learned a ton or his he Joey Meyers and a dear in the headlights....
So the question is.....Has it stuck.....
Real risky......We shall see......
Mullin has an "in-game" strategy assistant that coaches the "timeouts"
Mullen may deliver a message and approve the play....but the assistant does the X's and O's.....
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Ewing's name will be able to recruit......
He is totally an unproven coach with a ton of probably great mentoring......(15 years as assistant)
Is he Buzz and has learned a ton or his he Joey Meyers and a dear in the headlights....
So the question is.....Has it stuck.....
Real risky......We shall see......
Mullin has an "in-game" strategy assistant that coaches the "timeouts"
Mullen may deliver a message and approve the play....but the assistant does the X's and O's.....
Have to...
put on...
ignore...
#donedeal
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Great line bro. Are you vying for an assistant's spot at Gtown?
They can't afford me.
I mean, would Georgetown parents buy me a sporting goods gift card at the end of the season like my kids' parents did? I think not!
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As soon as I saw the headline yesterday, I thought of the Onion article from a few years back: http://www.theonion.com/article/fans-admit-they-have-no-clue-why-they-want-former--18501
"Fans Admit They Have No Clue Why They Want Former Player to Manage"
This feels like a huge gamble. Maybe this will be a sneaky home run hire. I reserve my right to be wrong.
That being said, there are 75 D1 programs in "high major" conferences (The 6 leagues you think of). That means 75 head coaches. 72 of those 75 head coaches had prior experience either as a head coach, or as a college assistant coach before they got their current gig.
ACC: 15 out of 15
Big Ten: 14 out of 14
Big XII: 10 out of 10
SEC: 13 out of 14
Pac-12: 12 out of 12
Big East: 8 out of 10
Total: 72 out of 75
The three who didn't have any prior experience as a head coach, or college assistant coach, are Chris Mullin at St. John's, Avery Johnson at Alabama, and now, Patrick Ewing at Georgetown.
Yes, Ewing has years of experience as an NBA assistant, but college is, quite literally, a different game. Of course, we can debate the level to which Ewing can apply his NBA assistant experience as a high major college head coach until Kingdom Come. However, at the very least, there should be no debate that Ewing's resume is HIGHLY UNUSUAL for a D1 high major coach. I can't help but think that Ewing was hired primarily as a "name" hire that would provide a link to the elder Thompson glory days, to provide a top headline for a program slipping into irrelevancy.
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Could this be a good hire? Absolutely. I think Ewing is more likely to install an appealing play style then JT3, and I think he's smart enough to build a solid staff to acclimate him to the college game.
That said, I'm not a fan of how this transpired. Getting turned down 4 times to settle on the alumni option is a bad look.
Interesting question, which looks "worse" from the outsider perspective? Georgetown being turned down publicly by numerous targets and selling on the effective "interior hire", or Marquette not putting out as many feelers and virtually going straight to the interior hire of Buzz Williams in 2008?
Agreed. But bringing a risky, but flashy, hire at this point has to be better for Georgetown's brand than bringing in a more orthodox, but disappointing hire.
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Ultimately, winning the news cycle is less important than winning games. The MU administration had the guts to make the Buzz hire knowing it would be underwhelming, but apparently knew something the rest of us didn't. Apparently Georgetown thought it was important to put out feelers to a number of home run hires even if they thought they were unlikely. If any of them had landed it would've been worth it, and if Georgetown declines from here on out, it will be because Ewing doesn't win, not because they asked four other coaches first.
Some of us on Scoop liked the Buzz hire, we could see who was getting recruits looking at MU in Crean's last year.
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So how long does Ewing's rebuild take? And how soon will the "fire Ewing" threads start on GU scoop after they miss the tournament next year?
If Ewing can keep the roster intact, Georgetown won't need a rebuild. Talent wasn't the problem at Georgetown. Anyone remember JJJ's remark about how he knew he could drive in and dunk on Georgetown's defense?
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Is he Buzz and has learned a ton or his he Joey Meyers and a dear in the headlights....
Joey wasn't a terrible coach or a "dear" in the headlights. Long after his old man (and his old man's recruits) were gone he was still putting together 20+ win/tournament teams.
The main reason for his failings was being undercut by his administration (Bill Bradshaw in particular), which suddenly decided to stop letting in the kids with academic issues that the program hard largely relied on in its glory days. There were a couple of high-profile cases in particular in which Joey landed a commitment from a top recruit, only to see the kid denied admission (Ronnie Fields, for example). This, in turn, led to many of the state's top high school programs to turn their backs on him.
At the same time, the U of Illinois was making inroads in recruiting the CPL thanks to some, shall we say, unscrupulous recruiting tactics that were bringing the top city kids (Marcus Liberty, Lowell Hamilton, Nick Anderson, etc.) downstate.
It's no coincidence that after Joey was canned, DePaul started landing city's best players again ... temporarily, at least ... under Pat Kennedy.
Joey was by no means a great coach, but he's not the guy to blame for the fall of DePaul hoops.
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Every hire is a risky one except maybe the handful of programs that get to select their coach (KY, Kansas, UNC and maybe a few others) -- even they whiff sometimes.
Where was the outrage with the Mike Hopkins hire - he was a 21 year assistant.
I don't know he will be successful at running a college program, but I don't think it is inconceivable that they took a shot on him.
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Every hire is a risky one except maybe the handful of programs that get to select their coach (KY, Kansas, UNC and maybe a few others) -- even they whiff sometimes.
Where was the outrage with the Mike Hopkins hire - he was a 21 year assistant.
I don't know he will be successful at running a college program, but I don't think it is inconceivable that they took a shot on him.
Hopkins may not be the best example, though. He turned down many opportunities to be a head coach elsewhere because he'd been led to believe that Boeheim would have retired by now and he'd replace. When it finally became apparent this year that Boeheim wasn't leaving, Hopkins took a gig elsewhere.
Tom Thibodeau was an assistant for nearly 30 years.
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Hopkins may not be the best example, though. He turned down many opportunities to be a head coach elsewhere because he'd been led to believe that Boeheim would have retired by now and he'd replace. When it finally became apparent this year that Boeheim wasn't leaving, Hopkins took a gig elsewhere.
Tom Thibodeau was an assistant for nearly 30 years.
Fair - my over-arching point is that assistant coaching is relevant experience to become a head coach. I am just surprised at that being a reason he won't be successful.
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Joey wasn't a terrible coach or a "dear" in the headlights. Long after his old man (and his old man's recruits) were gone he was still putting together 20+ win/tournament teams.
The main reason for his failings was being undercut by his administration (Bill Bradshaw in particular), which suddenly decided to stop letting in the kids with academic issues that the program hard largely relied on in its glory days. There were a couple of high-profile cases in particular in which Joey landed a commitment from a top recruit, only to see the kid denied admission (Ronnie Fields, for example). This, in turn, led to many of the state's top high school programs to turn their backs on him.
At the same time, the U of Illinois was making inroads in recruiting the CPL thanks to some, shall we say, unscrupulous recruiting tactics that were bringing the top city kids (Marcus Liberty, Lowell Hamilton, Nick Anderson, etc.) downstate.
It's no coincidence that after Joey was canned, DePaul started landing city's best players again ... temporarily, at least ... under Pat Kennedy.
Joey was by no means a great coach, but he's not the guy to blame for the fall of DePaul hoops.
Absolutely Dead on. not a great coach but a good coach, posters should check out his record
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Some of us on Scoop liked the Buzz hire, we could see who was getting recruits looking at MU in Crean's last year.
If what you said were true, that makes Bobby Hurley's comments about Buzz and Tyshawn Taylor at odds. Hurley wasn't exactly sold on Buzz for his star player.
http://www.zagsblog.com/2008/04/15/taylor-still-seeks-release/
Nick Williams didn't bother to stay at MU either. Buzz was responsible for Otule and Fulce from that class.
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If what you said were true, that makes Bobby Hurley's comments about Buzz and Tyshawn Taylor at odds. Hurley wasn't exactly sold on Buzz for his star player.
http://www.zagsblog.com/2008/04/15/taylor-still-seeks-release/
Nick Williams didn't bother to stay at MU either. Buzz was responsible for Otule and Fulce from that class.
You got me on Taylor, although what happened there was Tyshawn had a better than expected senior year and had some better options in the Spring (like Kansas) than he had in the fall, if he could get out of his committment. Still he was more of a Crean guy, making him an exception. If you don't know that Buzz's appearance at MU resulted in a resurgence in MU's recruiting, then you either weren't there or weren't paying attention. Why do you think he got the HC job?
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You got me on Taylor, although what happened there was Tyshawn had a better than expected senior year and had some better options in the Spring (like Kansas) than he had in the fall, if he could get out of his committment. Still he was more of a Crean guy, making him an exception. If you don't know that Buzz's appearance at MU resulted in a resurgence in MU's recruiting, then you either weren't there or weren't paying attention. Why do you think he got the HC job?
Thick Neck:
(http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/East+Basketball+Tournament+Quarterfinals+XkuZKS1-tqkl.jpg)
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Thick Neck:
Win. Absolute win. Literally laughing out loud, thanks for that.
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You got me on Taylor, although what happened there was Tyshawn had a better than expected senior year and had some better options in the Spring (like Kansas) than he had in the fall, if he could get out of his committment. Still he was more of a Crean guy, making him an exception. If you don't know that Buzz's appearance at MU resulted in a resurgence in MU's recruiting, then you either weren't there or weren't paying attention. Why do you think he got the HC job?
That is my recollection also. I thought I read something about Kansas being his dream school and they didn't have a spot in the fall. Then someone turned pro, Crean went to I4, and Buzz used the open spot on Jimmy Butler.
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John Dodds told me that Buzz absolutely saved the visit for Ty Taylor back in November 2008 as TC couldn't connect with the kid. Now who knows if that is true but I think whne Ty had a chance to go to Kansas, Bob Hurley was going to say ANYTHING he could to get him there. He saw an opening and went for it.
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John Dodds told me that Buzz absolutely saved the visit for Ty Taylor back in November 2008 as TC couldn't connect with the kid. Now who knows if that is true but I think whne Ty had a chance to go to Kansas, Bob Hurley was going to say ANYTHING he could to get him there. He saw an opening and went for it.
Agreed.
Taylor's de-commitment had way more to do with a chance for him to play at Kansas than with Buzz or Marquette (except that Buzz/Marquette weren't Bill Self/Kansas)
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Regardless of what you think of the hire...this is pretty rich of G'Town
@dcsportsbog
Patrick Ewing tells @JunksRadio that Georgetown has a nepotism clause and his son won't be allowed to stay on his staff
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They can't afford me.
I mean, would Georgetown parents buy me a sporting goods gift card at the end of the season like my kids' parents did? I think not!
Well, sure you get a lot of gift cards, but you spend a lot of gift cards too.
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Regardless of what you think of the hire...this is pretty rich of G'Town
@dcsportsbog
Patrick Ewing tells @JunksRadio that Georgetown has a nepotism clause and his son won't be allowed to stay on his staff
Now that's funny. On the other hand, I suppose that if anyone knows the dangers of nepotism, it's Georgetown.
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Regardless of what you think of the hire...this is pretty rich of G'Town
@dcsportsbog
Patrick Ewing tells @JunksRadio that Georgetown has a nepotism clause and his son won't be allowed to stay on his staff
I can't even...
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Regardless of what you think of the hire...this is pretty rich of G'Town
@dcsportsbog
Patrick Ewing tells @JunksRadio that Georgetown has a nepotism clause and his son won't be allowed to stay on his staff
No way. They've got to be trolling Gtown. Funny though
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Regardless of what you think of the hire...this is pretty rich of G'Town
@dcsportsbog
Patrick Ewing tells @JunksRadio that Georgetown has a nepotism clause and his son won't be allowed to stay on his staff
They forgot to use teal
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Regardless of what you think of the hire...this is pretty rich of G'Town
@dcsportsbog
Patrick Ewing tells @JunksRadio that Georgetown has a nepotism clause and his son won't be allowed will be required to stay on his staff
FIFY
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You got me on Taylor, although what happened there was Tyshawn had a better than expected senior year and had some better options in the Spring (like Kansas) than he had in the fall, if he could get out of his committment. Still he was more of a Crean guy, making him an exception. If you don't know that Buzz's appearance at MU resulted in a resurgence in MU's recruiting, then you either weren't there or weren't paying attention. Why do you think he got the HC job?
That's some nice revisionist history there. Of that class, Crean already had Williams, landed Taylor and took Otule over Buzz's fierce objections. Buzz got Fulce, a JUCO with an injury history.
As for your final question, the answer is because Tony Bennett and Sean Miller each turned down the job first.
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They aimed high and got shot down by Mike Brey, Shaka Smart, Ed Cooley, and Chris Mack. Hard to justify you "got your guy" when options 1, 2, 3, and 4 all said no.
Only Shaka and Brey were offered the job. Cooley and Mack were never contacted.
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Only Shaka and Brey were offered the job. Cooley and Mack were never contacted.
As a GT fan what are your early feelings about the situation, if you care to share.
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Great start!
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/04/06/patrick-ewing-went-on-the-dan-patrick-show-and-proposed-committing-a-recruiting-violation/ (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/04/06/patrick-ewing-went-on-the-dan-patrick-show-and-proposed-committing-a-recruiting-violation/)
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Great start!
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/04/06/patrick-ewing-went-on-the-dan-patrick-show-and-proposed-committing-a-recruiting-violation/ (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/04/06/patrick-ewing-went-on-the-dan-patrick-show-and-proposed-committing-a-recruiting-violation/)
Hiring a guy with NO coaching experience. What could possibly go wrong?
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Only Shaka and Brey were offered the job. Cooley and Mack were never contacted.
What are the general thoughts about the Ewing hire over in Hoyaland? Great hire? Stupid hire?
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Great start!
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/04/06/patrick-ewing-went-on-the-dan-patrick-show-and-proposed-committing-a-recruiting-violation/ (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/04/06/patrick-ewing-went-on-the-dan-patrick-show-and-proposed-committing-a-recruiting-violation/)
Oops. ::)
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Only Shaka and Brey were offered the job. Cooley and Mack were never contacted.
It is true Mack was never contacted. It's also true Mack turned down their interest.
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That is my recollection also. I thought I read something about Kansas being his dream school and they didn't have a spot in the fall. Then someone turned pro, Crean went to I4, and Buzz used the open spot on Jimmy Butler.
We came out ahead the way this played out.
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It is true Mack was never contacted. It's also true Mack turned down their interest.
Yep. It's in everyone's interest to come out the winner. "I'll offer you a contract if you'll accept it"
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As a GT fan what are your early feelings about the situation, if you care to share.
It was not my first choice to go with Ewing. I was and of the opinion if the Hoyas wanted to make a clean break and get a high major coach they could have done that. That's not the direction the program chose to go.
That being said I think I underestimated the impact the Ewing hire would have nationally. The media response has been great. I think if he gets some good assistant coaches under him it could be a home run hire. I do believe he'll be good at the x's and o's aspect of the job and once he gets his feet wet and a good team around him he'll do well recruiting. People underestimate his determination. He's a grinder. He'll put in the work necessary to succeed.
Most fans have embraced his hiring even if it wasn't their first choice. There are always going to be a few naysayers after every coaching search, but overall the mood is positive and hopeful.
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It was not my first choice to go with Ewing. I was and of the opinion if the Hoyas wanted to make a clean break and get a high major coach they could have done that. That's not the direction the program chose to go.
That being said I think I underestimated the impact the Ewing hire would have nationally. The media response has been great. I think if he gets some good assistant coaches under him it could be a home run hire. I do believe he'll be good at the x's and o's aspect of the job and once he gets his feet wet and a good team around him he'll do well recruiting. People underestimate his determination. He's a grinder. He'll put in the work necessary to succeed.
Most fans have embraced his hiring even if it wasn't their first choice. There are always going to be a few naysayers after every coaching search, but overall the mood is positive and hopeful.
Thanks, hope things work out for the Best for GT and we all Win.. Stay positive, enjoy every sandwich.
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Great start!
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/04/06/patrick-ewing-went-on-the-dan-patrick-show-and-proposed-committing-a-recruiting-violation/ (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/04/06/patrick-ewing-went-on-the-dan-patrick-show-and-proposed-committing-a-recruiting-violation/)
Glow and I have wondered whether or not Wojo could ask Jimmy or Dwyane to call a particular recruit to put in a good word for Marquette. I guess the answer is "no".
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I believe when Shumpert visited for Madness, D-Wade couldn't talk to him. Wes could talk to Vander since they had a prior relationship.
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It was not my first choice to go with Ewing. I was and of the opinion if the Hoyas wanted to make a clean break and get a high major coach they could have done that. That's not the direction the program chose to go.
That being said I think I underestimated the impact the Ewing hire would have nationally. The media response has been great. I think if he gets some good assistant coaches under him it could be a home run hire. I do believe he'll be good at the x's and o's aspect of the job and once he gets his feet wet and a good team around him he'll do well recruiting. People underestimate his determination. He's a grinder. He'll put in the work necessary to succeed.
Most fans have embraced his hiring even if it wasn't their first choice. There are always going to be a few naysayers after every coaching search, but overall the mood is positive and hopeful.
This. Front page of ESPN.com, The "A" block of PTI, leading SportsCenter. I doubt many candidates would have gotten that attention. Perhaps Brey & Shaka. Cooley & Mack would have been a blip. Winning the press conference is overrated and dangerous but this was nice to see. I'm of the opinion he's solid hire.
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That's some nice revisionist history there. Of that class, Crean already had Williams, landed Taylor and took Otule over Buzz's fierce objections. Buzz got Fulce, a JUCO with an injury history.
As for your final question, the answer is because Tony Bennett and Sean Miller each turned down the job first.
That is dead nuts wrong. Buzz on numerous occasions spoke about him recruiting otule and that crean did not want him and that buzz begged n begged crean to offer him and that he went to bat for otule until crean finally obliged buzz. Buzz also stated crean never knew otule only had 1 eye until he was signed, sealed n delivered on campus. Otule was a houston kid and buzz hit houston hard
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That is dead nuts wrong. Buzz on numerous occasions spoke about him recruiting otule and that crean did not want him and that buzz begged n begged crean to offer him and that he went to bat for otule until crean finally obliged buzz. Buzz also stated crean never knew otule only had 1 eye until he was signed, sealed n delivered on campus. Otule was a houston kid and buzz hit houston hard
Yep. Here is PT's story on how Otule was recruited by Buzz.
https://painttouches.com/2013/02/26/in-buzz-he-trusts-chris-otule/
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Yep. Here is PT's story on how Otule was recruited by Buzz.
https://painttouches.com/2013/02/26/in-buzz-he-trusts-chris-otule/
Did Buzz really want him? His assessment of Chris was rather harsh.
Or was it the case that Crean missed on his big-man targets, Buzz had his contact in Texas and Otule was a big. So, it came together.
But, Buzz begging Crean to take him. I don't know about. And, according to that article Buzz didn't even know about Chris' eye until the first days of practice.
Honestly, I have no idea where Mr. Sand-Knit comes up with his ideas.
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That's some nice revisionist history there. Of that class, Crean took Otule over Buzz's fierce objections.
LOL. Now there's some major revisionist history - total BS.
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Glow and I have wondered whether or not Wojo could ask Jimmy or Dwyane to call a particular recruit to put in a good word for Marquette. I guess the answer is "no".
We've had Jimmy and Wade and Jabari around the program before. I wonder if it's about semantics...Oh Jimmy is here today VS he's here to pitch you on Marquette.
At some point, the existence of those players as alumni are their own selling point. Weird that AI would be a selling point for Georgetown
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We've had Jimmy and Wade and Jabari around the program before. I wonder if it's about semantics...Oh Jimmy is here today VS he's here to pitch you on Marquette.
At some point, the existence of those players as alumni are their own selling point. Weird that AI would be a selling point for Georgetown
Probably very different rules for current players vs recruits. I know Jabari, DWade and Jimmy are around the program (current players) a lot. Not so sure they're around recruits. It also might be that former stars can't travel specifically to visit recruits.
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We've had Jimmy and Wade and Jabari around the program before. I wonder if it's about semantics...Oh Jimmy is here today VS he's here to pitch you on Marquette.
At some point, the existence of those players as alumni are their own selling point. Weird that AI would be a selling point for Georgetown
They came to the practice talked to the team different from amtalking directly and recruiting
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Probably very different rules for current players vs recruits. I know Jabari, DWade and Jimmy are around the program (current players) a lot. Not so sure they're around recruits. It also might be that former stars can't travel specifically to visit recruits.
Pretty sure I remember Joey tweeting about playing against Jabari Parker in the Kasten. Could be making it up
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Pretty sure I remember Joey tweeting about playing against Jabari Parker in the Kasten. Could be making it up
But Jabari is not an alum of Marquette. So no violation?
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They came to the practice talked to the team different from amtalking directly and recruiting
So semantics. Joey just "happens" to be around. But to be fair, Jimmy is almost as good as an ice cream truck.
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Pretty sure I remember Joey tweeting about playing against Jabari Parker in the Kasten. Could be making it up
That's why I said it might just be that people who aren't employed by the program can't go on recruiting trips. Throwing out possible reasons why Ewing's comment would have been bad....
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The definition of who cannot solicit a recruit is very broad. For example if You have given money to Blue and Gold fund, your now off limits to recruits.
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We've had Jimmy and Wade and Jabari around the program before. I wonder if it's about semantics...Oh Jimmy is here today VS he's here to pitch you on Marquette.
Bulls are in town and having practice at the Al while a recruit is touring, not a violation. Jimmy and Wade take time out of said practice to sell the kid on Marquette, violation.
It's about how the contact happens and the extent of it, but the biggest issue with Ewing was that he went on national television saying "I'm going to have Allen Iverson commit a recruiting violation for me." If AI happens to be on campus when Waters is, and they happen to have a conversation no one else is privy to, that's different than Ewing publicly soliciting said aid.
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The article said that it's a slap on the wrist and the NCAA knows that the rule is hard to enforce. JFB saying "hi, kids" at the Al is probably not a big deal.
My guess is that they have this rule on the books so Ewing doesn't tell Iverson to go to the kid's school, hoist him up on his shoulders, and lead chants of the kid's name.
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The article said that it's a slap on the wrist and the NCAA knows that the rule is hard to enforce. JFB saying "hi, kids" at the Al is probably not a big deal.
My guess is that they have this rule on the books so Ewing doesn't tell Iverson to go to the kid's school, hoist him up on his shoulders, and lead chants of the kid's name.
That's how I see it. If you think JFB isn't saying 'MU would be a great fit' to a kid when they are both at the Al I'd be very surprised. That's different than putting him out on the recruiting trail.
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The article said that it's a slap on the wrist and the NCAA knows that the rule is hard to enforce. JFB saying "hi, kids" at the Al is probably not a big deal.
My guess is that they have this rule on the books so Ewing doesn't tell Iverson to go to the kid's school, hoist him up on his shoulders, and lead chants of the kid's name.
I think it's pretty much there to prevent exactly what Ewing suggested happening. Getting non-coaches actively involved in the recruiting process and potentially creating an unfair advantage in the process. Hard to stop incidental contact, even manufactured incidental contact, it's the blatant and deliberate stuff they want to avoid.
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Forget it, Jake...
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Tremont Waters Update from today's New Haven Register. Interesting that Creighton mentioned as in the mix with an inter-conference issue.
http://www.gametimect.com/boys-basketball-waters-back-market-division-schools-continue-show-interest/
Boys basketball: Waters back on market as Division I schools continue to show interest
Published April 12, 2017 | by Jim Fuller | Leave a Comment
NEW YORK >> In a perfect world, the reporters who surrounded New Haven native Tremont Waters would have asked him about the countless number of jaw-dropping passes he delivered to his teammates at Wednesday’s Jordan Brand Classic practice at the HSS Training Center in Brooklyn.
However, with Waters’ decision to ask for and receive his release from the national letter of intent he signed with Georgetown, naturally the questions he faced were of the recruiting variety.
Waters said he has heard from Creighton head coach Greg McDermott and recently met with newly-hired Georgetown coach Patrick Ewing. Waters said that he is still considering Georgetown.
“Creighton, Kansas, Syracuse have come into play, a bunch of other schools,” Waters said. “Creighton hit me up yesterday. My dad has been dealing with the other coaches. UConn is (involved) too.”
Waters wasn’t ready to make a declaration of when he would be announcing his college decision.
“As soon as possible,” Waters said. “I am not going to put a time frame on it, just as soon as possible. It is stressful once again. At this moment. I haven’t really heard from the coaches directly. My dad has been dealing with it, I am trying to keep working out, check in with him daily and just see what is going on.”
The Creighton situation presents some issues since the Big East has regulations preventing a player from signing with one Big East school and then becoming a scholarship player at another school within the conference.
When asked specifically about visiting UConn, Waters said, ‘I’ve think I’ve visited enough, being from Connecticut and going to camps so I think I’ve visited enough.”
Waters continues to keep tabs on the incoming freshmen and returning players on the teams he is considering. He is more than happy to let his father handle much of the heavy lifting in the recruiting process.
“It gives me a chance to focus on school and basketball, not deal with all the media, all the coaches so I just stay focused and keep working out,” said Waters, who will be playing for the East team in Friday’s Jordan Brand Classic at the Barclays Center (8 p.m., ESPN2).
Waters said the rumors surrounding the coaching future of John Thompson III, who was fired after the season ended, played a major role in requesting to be released from his commitment to Georgetown.
“I saw tweets about Coach Thompson being fired and rumors about it,” Waters said. “The season didn’t go that well and more and more tweets and stories about him being fired. I wanted to go into a situation where I didn’t have to worry about my coach getting fired so I asked for my release.
“The same day (Ewing was hired) he reached out. He said we are going to keep in touch.”
Waters had an interesting reaction to meeting Ewing.
“It was really good,” Waters said. “I was shocked when I saw him, I didn’t think he was that tall but he is saying the same thing that Coach John Thompson was saying.”
So what is Waters looking for in his college of choice?
“Pretty much any system I go into I will be able to perform to the best of my abilities and make the team better,” Waters said. “I also want to see who is going to what schools as far as bigs and guards wise.”
Right now Waters’ emphasis is on playing in the Jordan Brand Classic.
“It is a dream come true to come from a small city like New Haven and we don’t get recruited a lot,” Waters said. “It is just a humbling experience, I am blessed to be here.”
About Jim Fuller
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Hmm. I know from the Brown situation that the signed NLI is key to not allow intraconference transfers. Is it different if the school releases the player from their NLI before he makes it to campus?
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Hmm. I know from the Brown situation that the signed NLI is key to not allow intraconference transfers. Is it different if the school releases the player from their NLI before he makes it to campus?
Letter of the law, no difference, at least how I read it. Creighton cannot sign Waters.
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Letter of the law, no difference, at least how I read it. Creighton cannot sign Waters.
Cannot sign, or cannot give a scholarship to? Now, I know no way he goes without out a scholarship...but that's the way the article reads.
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Pretty sure I remember Joey tweeting about playing against Jabari Parker in the Kasten. Could be making it up
(https://marquettewire.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Joey-Hauser.jpg)
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Cannot sign, or cannot give a scholarship to? Now, I know no way he goes without out a scholarship...but that's the way the article reads.
Correct, sorry, I misstated that.
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Ewing gets his first recruit:
@evandaniels: 2017 point guard Jahvon Blair just verbally committed to Georgetown, per Tony McIntyre. Played for CIA Bounce and Athlete Institute.
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Ewing gets his first recruit:
@evandaniels: 2017 point guard Jahvon Blair just verbally committed to Georgetown, per Tony McIntyre. Played for CIA Bounce and Athlete Institute.
Former high school teammate of Khalif Young IIRC