MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: WashDCWarrior on November 30, 2006, 01:28:35 PM
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I don't think I've left any obvious choices off the board, but let me know if there's anyone I should add.
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Excellent poll...don't know which way to vote. (Diener over 4yrs, or James strong 1+ yr so far).
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I'm sure the results would look different in a couple years once the big 3 have played out their MU careers. That being said, I went with Diener because of his overall contribution to MU basketball. He was an injury away from being MU's all-time leading scorer. (granted that was four years vs. George Thompson's three years)
Not bad for a short, skinny white kid, who when I first saw, expected to be the 2nd coming of Brian Barone.
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I'm sure the results would look different in a couple years once the big 3 have played out their MU careers. That being said, I went with Diener because of his overall contribution to MU basketball. He was an injury away from being MU's all-time leading scorer. (granted that was four years vs. George Thompson's three years)
Not bad for a short, skinny white kid, who when I first saw, expected to be the 2nd coming of Brian Barone.
Diener, hands down, with overall contribution to the program. Such a great high energy, talented player.
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Diener, no doubt about it.
That kid should not have been drafted to play in the NBA. Crean took him in, tutored him, and helped strengthen his game so NBA teams would select him.
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Based on the one year with Dom, I have to go with Dom. He did more in his freshmen year than Diener did in his. I am not taking anything anyway from Travis but Dom is considered an all-american in only his second year and Travis was not, at least during his first 3 years at MU.
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I've got to go with James because the question is who is the "best player" other than Wade. I think it's clearly DJ. If the question was "who contributed most to Marquette," "who was the best leader," or "who made the best use of his skills" or something like that, it would be Diener hands down. But, I just don't think Diener is a better player than James.
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A friend of mine bought up a good point....so far the best career besides Wade has been Diener...however the best season (not necesarrily the best player) by any player under Crean has to be Money last year.
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I love Travis Diener, he is my all-time favorite player ever (with Dan Dickau close second, I'm a sucker for little white guys), however the question states "best player" and overall, James has more game than Diener, and this year looks like just as much heart, which I thought I would never see anyone have as much heart as Diener
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I think one thing to also consider was how Diener led a team with little talent and DJ is on a much better overall skilled team. I guess how do you determine skill? Its hard to not factor in things like leadership, team player, etc. when looking at a player's talent. Teammates in b-ball are an element in a player's success..
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I voted Diener. However best season was definately Novak last year.
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It has to be James. Big East rookie of the year. This year, he is the MVP of the team. Think of this. Replace Diener with James on the final four team. Granted, TD came up huge in the first round, but do you think we have a better chance against Kansas with James handling the rock against Hinrich? I love Diener, but James by far is a better all around player.
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I love Travis Diener, he is my all-time favorite player ever (with Dan Dickau close second, I'm a sucker for little white guys), however the question states "best player" and overall, James has more game than Diener, and this year looks like just as much heart, which I thought I would never see anyone have as much heart as Diener
I don't know about James having more heart than Travis.
Travis played hard for 40 minutes, he was the ultimate competitor. That being said I voted for TD just because his junior and senior years, he wasn't blessed with a running mate. Sure Novak was around put he was a One Demionsial player and was locked up a lot of the times. DJ has Wes and Jerel.
Diener vs. Wisconsin at the BC a few years back was memorable. Through the first 26 minutes of the game Travis almost outscored the rodents single handedly.
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It has to be James. Big East rookie of the year. This year, he is the MVP of the team. Think of this. Replace Diener with James on the final four team. Granted, TD came up huge in the first round, but do you think we have a better chance against Kansas with James handling the rock against Hinrich? I love Diener, but James by far is a better all around player.
Replace Diener with anybody and I don't think we would have got past Holy Cross.
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I had to go with Diener. Hoopsdreams summed it up the best. With mediocre talent, he almost led MU to an NCAA birth. Then he broke his hand. Bust!
Maybe we should show DJ this poll so that he'll be forced to stay...show everyone up that he's the best post Wade player.
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I love Travis Diener, he is my all-time favorite player ever (with Dan Dickau close second, I'm a sucker for little white guys), however the question states "best player" and overall, James has more game than Diener, and this year looks like just as much heart, which I thought I would never see anyone have as much heart as Diener
I don't know about James having more heart than Travis.
Travis played hard for 40 minutes, he was the ultimate competitor. That being said I voted for TD just because his junior and senior years, he wasn't blessed with a running mate. Sure Novak was around put he was a One Demionsial player and was locked up a lot of the times. DJ has Wes and Jerel.
Diener vs. Wisconsin at the BC a few years back was memorable. Through the first 26 minutes of the game Travis almost outscored the rodents single handedly.
I said just as much heart... no one can have MORE heart than Diener
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just more facial hair :P
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I went with James. I believe he's a better player than TD. I agree with those above who voted with TD based on his entire career. I also like the argument about Novak for a season.
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First of all DC, this is a helluva poll! This is like picking between your children in a basketball sense.
I almost had to break this down into several categories.
Most Valuable Player - single season - non-NC2A team - Wardle in 00-01
Most Outstanding Player - single season - Novak in 05-06
Most Valuable Player - single season - NC2A team - Jackson in 02-03
Most Outstanding Player and Most Valuable Player - career - Diener
I have a suspicision my vote would be quite a bit different four months from now.
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Most Valuable Player - single season - NC2A team - Jackson in 02-03
I'd take issue with the above choice, as I think Diener, not Jackson, was second most valuable player on that team.
Diener also answered the bell in some huge games, like rounds 1 and 2 of 2003 NCAA tournament. The weird thing about Diener is that I think Wardle did a better job of being effective with the poor supporting cast than TD did.
So I'd still put DJ number 1.
For me the list is:
1. James (As close to the complete package as we've had other than Wade)
2. Diener (Tremendous competitor, fun because he annoyed the crap out of opposition fans)
3. Wardle (talk about not having support, this guy was a one man gang)
4. Novak (My son's favorite, he'll be an MU fan for life because he loved watching this guy shoot the ball)
5. Jackson (Only true strong low post player of the Crean era, even though he couldn't jump over a loaf of bread)
6. Henry (We forget about him now, because he wasn't quite Hutchins and when he finished we were excited about Diener/Wade, but he was a fun player)
7. Matthews (I played in high school against his dad, who is still the quickest human being I ever saw. Wesley is a totally different player, but effective nonetheless)
8. McNeal (Hard to rate him higher because 49% of the time I think he is terrible with his out of control antics and 51% of the time I think he his tremendous with his steals and occasional spectacular forays to the hoop. THose percentages are subject to change)
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Diener, no doubt about it.
That kid should not have been drafted to play in the NBA. Crean took him in, tutored him, and helped strengthen his game so NBA teams would select him.
TC did Jack...TD got himself to the NBA, his cousin with less skill andjust a slightly taller frame would be playing in the league if not for Crones disease. TC has his skills, (game prep, makerketing, PR, etc)...but TD is in the NBA b/c of TD.
Look at TC's 3 NBAers...Wade (great penetrator, def minded, athletic etc) Novak (awesome shot) Diener (never say die, tenacity, good shot, decent handle). They all had those skills coing in. What TC taught them was how to work hard but he didn't add many skills.
Brian Wardle told me after Wade's freshman year...he'd go 2nd rd today and he hasn't even played in a college game yet.
Novak said he learned more about defense in the forst month with Houston than he ever had. TC is great for hard work but he didn't the 3 to the NBA they did. Now I will say if Jerel goes, I will credit TC b/c I think Jerel has tools but needs work.
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I voted for Dom. He is probably the best or second best athlete that has ever come thru MU. As his skills continue to develop he will blossom into a even more wonderful player. Has he had a season like Novak or Diener had?, no! But he has what Diener and Novak lack and that is the world class athleticism that it takes to be an elite player. That may occur this year or in the next few years when he is in the NBA. He will most likely be the first first team AA since DW. His numbers may not be like TD's but he is not the only player on his team. DW and DJ are the two best players to come out of Mu in the last 25 years.
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alright.. well I guess this means we need to rent a basketball court somewhere, fly diener, james, and wade there, and then have diener and james throw down with wade ref'ing.
all in favor?
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Interesting proposal. In a game of one-on-one, I might take Diener over James because of his 3-pt ability. Interesting.
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Diener, no doubt about it.
That kid should not have been drafted to play in the NBA. Crean took him in, tutored him, and helped strengthen his game so NBA teams would select him.
TC did Jack...TD got himself to the NBA, his cousin with less skill andjust a slightly taller frame would be playing in the league if not for Crones disease. TC has his skills, (game prep, makerketing, PR, etc)...but TD is in the NBA b/c of TD.
Look at TC's 3 NBAers...Wade (great penetrator, def minded, athletic etc) Novak (awesome shot) Diener (never say die, tenacity, good shot, decent handle). They all had those skills coing in. What TC taught them was how to work hard but he didn't add many skills.
Brian Wardle told me after Wade's freshman year...he'd go 2nd rd today and he hasn't even played in a college game yet.
Novak said he learned more about defense in the forst month with Houston than he ever had. TC is great for hard work but he didn't the 3 to the NBA they did. Now I will say if Jerel goes, I will credit TC b/c I think Jerel has tools but needs work.
Hmmm okay. I guess we have a great pr marketing guy running a top 10 basketball program who knows how to gameplan but can't coach a lick or make a single player better in the last 6 plus years. :-\
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fair point CT. I just think MU doesn't get to the Final 4 in 03 without R Jax inside, especially against Estill in the regional final. Then again, if TD doesn't play as well as he did the opening weekend against Holy Cross and Mizzou, MU probably isn't playing Pitt or UK. RJax the little better defender of the two as well, and both were pretty effective offensive players.