MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: MarquetteDano on March 10, 2017, 10:32:38 PM
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Discuss.....
https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/angry-indiana-fan-to-tom-crean-after-wisconsin-loss-you-ruined-the-program/amp/
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Discuss.....
https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/angry-indiana-fan-to-tom-crean-after-wisconsin-loss-you-ruined-the-program/amp/
Already in another thread bro
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I am not really much of a Crean fan, but IU fans are an increasingly delusional sort.
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From the article
With the loss to Wisconsin, Indiana is likely headed to the NIT, meaning it will miss the NCAA Tournament just a year removed from playing in the regional semifinal and winning the Big Ten regular-season title. It is not the result any fan, nor Crean himself, likely envisioned when the season started.
IU is 18-15 (7-11) and tied 10th in the B1G (with tOSU)
The NIT has 32 spots and they will take all the regular season conference champs that did not win their conference tourney and get an automatic spot in the NCAA tourney. So depending on the number of mid-major conference upsets, their are only 10 to 15 at-large NIT spots. And if the B1G gets 7 NCAA spots, the NIT would have to take four B1G teams for IU to make it. If the NCAA takes 6 B1G, teams, then the NIT would have to take 5 B1G teams for IU to make it.
My point is i think IU getting into the NIT is a long shot. Agree?
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Following up on my post above...
Illinois just canned Groce. Illinois was 18-14 (8-10). Ranked higher than IU.
Crean can call it a season.
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NIT Bracketology has Indiana as a 3 seed...
http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/
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NIT Bracketology has Indiana as a 3 seed...
http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/
They also have Illinois as a 2 seed. So prestigious to make the NIT that the Illini fired their coach the day before the bids come out.
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They also have Illinois as a 2 seed. So prestigious to make the NIT that the Illini fired their coach the day before the bids come out.
(http://www.johnlocke.org/site-docs/lockerroom/movinggoalpost.gif)
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Ok you motivated me to look it up ...
2014 Indiana was shut out of post season
Record = 17-15
KenPom SOS = 155
KenPom = 63
RPI = 110
This year
Record = 18-15
KenPom SOS = 36
KenPom = 42
RPI = 79
I remembered their 2014 record as being the same and they did not make the NIT. But I did not dig deep enough to see this year SOS was much tougher so they are much higher rated even though the record is the same. The B1G is soft at the top relative to previous years so I took that to mean they were soft all the way down. That is not true.
So with essentially the same record that kept Indiana out of the NIT 3 years ago they should be good enough to get in this year.
Other thoughts ...
I wonder if Illinois firing their coach changes the NIT selection decision about them going to the their tourney?
Does IU wait until the NIT is over to can Crean? If he makes the NIT FF and survives two more weeks, would that change the decision as other coaches get scooped up in the interim?
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I wonder if Illinois firing their coach changes the NIT selection decision about them going to the their tourney?
Nope. Illinois got a NIT #2 seed, and their assistant coach has taken over as interim HC.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-illinois-nit-bracket-20170312-story.html
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Ruined the program? If I remember that program was a dumpster fire when he joined
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Cream has plateaued at IU, just like he did at Marquette. He has never been past the second weekend without Dwayne Wade. In 18 years. He can build a program, but his track record is that he can only take a program so far.
The personality issues don't matter. Nobody can please everybody.
The 18 year track record says he is a solid coach, but not an elite one. And IU fans want championships. The interesting question to me is who will IU pursue that actually wants that job.
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Cream has plateaued at IU, just like he did at Marquette. He has never been past the second weekend without Dwayne Wade. In 18 years. He can build a program, but his track record is that he can only take a program so far.
The personality issues don't matter. Nobody can please everybody.
The 18 year track record says he is a solid coach, but not an elite one. And IU fans want championships. The interesting question to me is who will IU pursue that actually wants that job.
I honestly think that, similar to John Groce, Crean is a mid-major coach. He can recruit talent but can't necessarily coach that talent. A coach can be reasonably successful at mid-majors simply by having one of the most talented rosters in the conference or even having 1-2 of the most talented players. In big-time conferences with big-time coaches, pure talent can only take a team so far.
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I think he is better than a mid-major coach. He just isn't an elite coach and he isn't going to take a program to the heights. He does a nice job on rebuilds. Both MU and IU were rebuilds when he got there. But his defense has never been stellar. His offense, for all of his fabled 3000 play playbook, is predictable, particularly at crunch time. His programs have been far from wart-free when it comes to off court incidents. (though I don't actually blame him for that. 18-22 year old males are knuckleheads)
He will get his butt kicked with regularity if he goes to NCSU. He will be gone in 3 years there. He has a chance to have a nice run if he goes to Missouri, but he will never get past the sweet 16 there, either.
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Nope. Illinois got a NIT #2 seed, and their assistant coach has taken over as interim HC.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-illinois-nit-bracket-20170312-story.html
Watch Illinois win the NIT and put pressure on the AD to name the interim as the permanent head coach.
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Cream has plateaued at IU, just like he did at Marquette. He has never been past the second weekend without Dwayne Wade. In 18 years. He can build a program, but his track record is that he can only take a program so far.
The personality issues don't matter. Nobody can please everybody.
The 18 year track record says he is a solid coach, but not an elite one. And IU fans want championships. The interesting question to me is who will IU pursue that actually wants that job.
He's also dealt with season ending injuries to a key player multiple times and has had multiple early entrant departures.
The program got to a level quicker then it could handle building a foundation to overcome those injuries and departures, comparative to Kansas or Duke or Kentucky which is where the Hoosiers faitfthul believe they belong by birthright.
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I agree with the argument that this year's team was hamstrung by injuries. IF Crean is fired (not convinced it will happen yet, though I acknowledge the strong possibility), I think Cronin is the leading candidate.
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Regarding the link in the OP, what is Crean pointing at? The guy wasn't vulgar or even particularly offensive. Can somebody be ejected for something like that?
I'd love to see Crean go after somebody and get pummeled.
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Why is Indiana on the road as the better seed vs. Georgia Tech? I noticed they are the only lower seed playing on the road. They could have played March 14th or 15th.
I see they say there are two explanations: "ongoing renovations" and because the students are on spring break. Seems strange.
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Why is Indiana on the road as the better seed vs. Georgia Tech? I noticed they are the only lower seed playing on the road. They could have played March 14th or 15th.
I see they say there are two explanations: "ongoing renovations" and because the students are on spring break. Seems strange.
Crean didn't want a repeat of the Western Michigan disaster (i.e. a home game in an half empty/fully disinterested arena).
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Crean didn't want a repeat of the Western Michigan disaster (i.e. a home game in an half empty/fully disinterested arena).
Pretty much.
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2017/03/13/doyel-proof-iu-crean-marriage-isnt-working/99118574/
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Regarding the link in the OP, what is Crean pointing at? The guy wasn't vulgar or even particularly offensive. Can somebody be ejected for something like that?
I'd love to see Crean go after somebody and get pummeled.
He disrespected Crean to his face. He'd never confront him back, but he sure as hell will send a minion to try and get him tossed.
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I'm guessing that if we didn't know Crean one iota and if Wojo were to leave MU next month after having led us to the Elite 8, we would be clamoring to hire a proven winner like Crean.
I think his reputation in the college basketball coaching circles is a lot better than most Scoopers' opinions of him.
In Crean's case (and Buzz's for many/most), familiarity really has bred contempt.
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I'm guessing that if we didn't know Crean one iota and if Wojo were to leave MU next month after having led us to the Elite 8, we would be clamoring to hire a proven winner like Crean.
I think his reputation in the college basketball coaching circles is a lot better than most Scoopers' opinions of him.
In Crean's case (and Buzz's for many/most), familiarity really has bred contempt.
Most media people understand that Crean is an egomaniac and a really weird dude. Can't speak for other fan bases though.
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I'm guessing that if we didn't know Crean one iota and if Wojo were to leave MU next month after having led us to the Elite 8, we would be clamoring to hire a proven winner like Crean.
I think his reputation in the college basketball coaching circles is a lot better than most Scoopers' opinions of him.
In Crean's case (and Buzz's for many/most), familiarity really has bred contempt.
I disagree. Would we as a fanbase want a coach with:
1. 10 NCAA appearances in 18 years.
2. One trip past the sweet sixteen.
3. Multiple off court issues.
Pretty sure there would be outrage.
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I disagree. Would we as a fanbase want a coach with:
1. 10 NCAA appearances in 18 years.
2. One trip past the sweet sixteen.
3. Multiple off court issues.
Pretty sure there would be outrage.
Maybe. An awful lot of Scoopers wanted a "proven" coach such as Martin, who had accomplished little, or Howland, who had off-the-court issues. But you very well might have better insight into the average Scooper's mind than I do. I was just providing a conversation starter.
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To be fair, we are a whiny lot, and there would be outrage regardless of the hire.
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I agree with the argument that this year's team was hamstrung by injuries. IF Crean is fired (not convinced it will happen yet, though I acknowledge the strong possibility), I think Cronin is the leading candidate.
I think IU can do better than Cronin. I think they'll get a lot of interest.
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Maybe Crean can be that veteran presence Scoopers hope Wojo will put on his bench to help him along the way, ai'na?
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Cream is not a defensive genius.
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I think IU can do better than Cronin. I think they'll get a lot of interest.
Like who? Cronin is a good coach.
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Crean sucks.
He gowne.
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IU lost at Georgia Tech in round 1 of the NIT. Crean is on the clock.
If he is still the IU head coach when we tip off Friday at 9PM he is probably safe for another season.
Agree?
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I think IU can do better than Cronin. I think they'll get a lot of interest.
Who is the hot mid-major coach this year? I'm not sure there is one. I think the number of coaches who would take the IU job AND who would satisfy the fan base is very small.
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Cronin isnt a bad shout. I mean, I'd want to leave the AAC as soon as I could as well.
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IU lost at Georgia Tech in round 1 of the NIT. Crean is on the clock.
If he is still the IU head coach when we tip off Friday at 9PM he is probably safe for another season.
Agree?
Maybe, but I'd bet he's gone by the end of the day today. I think the decision had already been made when IU voluntarily chose to play the NIT game at GT instead of IU.
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Like who? Cronin is a good coach.
I still believe IU is a very desirable job and can attract a big name(that's obviously up for debate). I also agree that Cronin is a good coach and you could put him right in the middle of this list so it might be splitting hairs, but this is how I would do it if I was IU...
Jay Wright - Not going to listen, but i would still put in a call
Sean Miller - might listen, but still probably not going to happen
Mark Few - might listen, but still probably not going to happen
Tony Bennett
Chris Mack
Dana Altman
Archie Miller
Scott Drew?
Greg Marshall?
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Wooden shock me if Alford rode back ta Bloomin'ton, hey?
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Cronin isnt a bad shout. I mean, I'd want to leave the AAC as soon as I could as well.
Cronin was basically ready to go to UNLV. IU would be an absolute no brainer for him if he could get it.
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Bennett is going to a place who fired his sister?
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Got to figure this would be the job Greg Marshall would leave for.
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Replacing the one coach with a personality as disliked as his.
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It's about time for Lon Kruger to go lookin' for another job, no?
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It's about time for Lon Kruger to go lookin' for another job, no?
What's Larry Brown got going these days?
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Maybe, but I'd bet he's gone by the end of the day today. I think the decision had already been made when IU voluntarily chose to play the NIT game at GT instead of IU.
What if it's the other way? They gave up the home game because they know they're keeping Crean another year and didn't want to showcase a half-empty stadium booing him mercilessly?
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I think I read somewhere that Crean has a $4M buyout but that if IU waits until June 1 or some other late date, that goes down to $1M.
If IU wants to part with Crean, wouldn't it behoove both parties to settle somewhere in between?
IU should want to get its new coach in sooner rather than later, and Crean should want to get on the job market sooner rather than later. Maybe split the difference and say $2.5M, or if IU feels it has the leverage, $2M?
I'm not sure if things work that way or not in this biz. Just trying to think logically.
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http://www.tomcreanbuyout.com/ (http://www.tomcreanbuyout.com/)
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One potential destination off of the table.
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Wooden shock me if Alford rode back ta Bloomin'ton, hey?
+1
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http://www.tomcreanbuyout.com/ (http://www.tomcreanbuyout.com/)
There you go. I was off by a month.
BTW, why hasn't Holtmann's name surfaced? He's done a hell of a job at Butler, and he's right up the road!
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What if it's the other way? They gave up the home game because they know they're keeping Crean another year and didn't want to showcase a half-empty stadium booing him mercilessly?
I'm guessing the TV audience for the NIT game was much smaller than for most of their regular season games, so I doubt the administration was worried about how the booing would sound on TV....
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I'm guessing that if we didn't know Crean one iota and if Wojo were to leave MU next month after having led us to the Elite 8, we would be clamoring to hire a proven winner like Crean.
I think his reputation in the college basketball coaching circles is a lot better than most Scoopers' opinions of him.
In Crean's case (and Buzz's for many/most), familiarity really has bred contempt.
Crean (aka Tommy Naismith) is despised by opposing coaches, players and hardcore fans of every stripe. He's the butt of jokes pretty much everywhere. The former Ohio State walk-on (Mark Titus) who writes Club Trillion was relentless in his mockery of the tanned one. some casual fans haven't "found him out" but that's about it.
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Crean (aka Tommy Naismith) is despised by opposing coaches, players and hardcore fans of every stripe. He's the butt of jokes pretty much everywhere. The former Ohio State walk-on (Mark Titus) who writes Club Trillion was relentless in his mockery of the tanned one. some casual fans haven't "found him out" but that's about it.
And yet, without him, MU may be on par with DePaul.
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Crean (aka Tommy Naismith) is despised by opposing coaches, players and hardcore fans of every stripe. He's the butt of jokes pretty much everywhere. The former Ohio State walk-on (Mark Titus) who writes Club Trillion was relentless in his mockery of the tanned one. some casual fans haven't "found him out" but that's about it.
I sit corrected.
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Wooden shock me if Alford rode back ta Bloomin'ton, hey?
They don't want him.
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Welp, he's gone.
From some twitter guy:
Indiana announced that they fired Tom Crean at the exact moment that the NCAA tournament started. That's savvy.
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Mike Pence frowns upon Indiana's lack of fiscal conservatism
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Welp, he's gone.
From some twitter guy:
Indiana announced that they fired Tom Crean at the exact moment that the NCAA tournament started. That's savvy.
That is high quality PR right there...
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IU's coaching candidate list...
Gregg Popovich
Steve Kerr
Mike Krzyzewski
John Calipari
Tom Izzo
Phil Jackson (90's version)
Bobby Knight
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IU's coaching candidate list...
Gregg Popovich
Steve Kerr
Mike Krzyzewski
John Calipari
Tom Izzo
Phil Jackson (90's version)
Bobby Knight
You forgot John Wooden. And coaching legend Stew Morrill.
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You forgot John Wooden. And coaching legend Stew Morrill.
And Ners.
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FIRED!
Sorry. I didn't see the multi page thread!
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He was responsible for MU getting back to national prominence.
Beyond that , maybe he can cash in his son's summer camp trophies to live on when the severance runs out.
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(http://images.45cat.com/boyz-ii-men-its-so-hard-to-say-goodbye-to-yesterday-radio-version-motown.jpg)