MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Big Papi on February 19, 2017, 11:06:15 AM
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One game only but he actually looked like the better player over Fischer. He played much better defense off of the ball screen with his hedging and rebounded way better than Fischer. Our defense actually looked decent for much of the game. Offensive skills are not there but didn't need that last night.
I guess we get to see first hand how Wojo coaches this out the rest of the way.
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One game only but he actually looked like the better player over Fischer. He played much better defense off of the ball screen with his hedging and rebounded way better than Fischer. Our defense actually looked decent for much of the game. Offensive skills are not there but didn't need that last night.
I guess we get to see first hand how Wojo coaches this out the rest of the way.
I don't know about the rest of the season, but I think he starts Tuesday. I believe if you have softer players in at the beginning, opposing players gain more confidence with each success they have. If they have to work harder, the confidence rate is slower.
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I think he should start. He gives us the best chance to win because he is a better rim defender than Fischer. Fischer cost us several games because of his poor shooting (from 2') and lousy defense. Heldt should shoot more.
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I think he should start. He gives us the best chance to win because he is a better rim defender than Fischer. Fischer cost us several games because of his poor shooting (from 2') and lousy defense. Heldt should shoot more.
Poor shooting? Luke is 2nd in the conference in eFG%. Love Matt but we have some backup qb syndrome going on
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Yeah of course, as due Rowsey and Duane, hey?
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Poor shooting? Luke is 2nd in the conference in eFG%. Love Matt but we have some backup qb syndrome going on
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Regardless of who starts, Matt's performance last night has me less worried about what happens next season....
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Heldt is not just a better defender than Fisher. He's a better rebounder, has a higher basketball IQ, is in the right place more often, works harder, and makes fewer mistakes. Sounds like a starter to me.
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Hope not. Luke is the better option.
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Heldt is not just a better defender than Fisher. He's a better rebounder, has a higher basketball IQ, is in the right place more often, works harder, and makes fewer mistakes. Sounds like a starter to me.
Except he isn't a better rebounder by TRB% and turns the ball over more by TO%.
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I'm glad to see that they both fouled out, meaning they were playing really hard, as they should.
Fisher has been way too timid, fearful of fouling out, give them hell, play with a little reckless abandon.
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Doesn't matter. Either one will have two fouls by the six minute mark.
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Heldt is the only scholarship player not to be named SOTG. If he does get it, I believe this will be the first time every scholarship player on the roster at the end of the year was named at least once (Wally did not get it last year and I'm not counting Cohen and Carter as they did not play the last 20 games).
If nothing else Heldt will get enough PT to potentially earn a SOTG. But with 4 regular and at least 1 BET game left, and SOTG only goes to a player when we win, not many opportunities left.
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I'm glad to see that they both fouled out, meaning they were playing really hard, as they should.
Fisher has been way too timid, fearful of fouling out, give them hell, play with a little reckless abandon.
Except fully two of Fischer's fouls were moronic, foolish plays that someone shouldn't commit even in their Sophomore year. Both late in the game when foul trouble needed to be part of their approach, the first was a stupid foul 90 feet from the basket after X had clearly secured a defensive rebound and he reached and the second was his 5th and final foul when he simply should have given the layup at a point when two points meant next to nothing compared to his continuing eligibility.
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I think Wojo should have a daily tryout and top 5 start/play.
Glow---I thought I was watching Otule on those screen hedge foul 35' from the basket. When LF had 4 fouls and he is interlocking arms with OMeara I was screaming at Luke for 3 seconds prior to the call that the refs had to call. It wasn't necessary and I was obvious. Bizarre.
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If we are playing to win Luke gets his minutes. No comparison and this stage of the two guys careers. Matt is nowhere near ready to get big time minutes. I doubt if he will ever get big time minutes.
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I think Wojo(we) was playing to win last night. Heldt had 24 minutes, Luke 12 minutes. I believe Matt fouled out first, which implies Matt would had added more minutes and Luke less, if he hadn't fouled out.
I love who Matt is becoming and what he brings.
I would take an overachiever before an underachiever all day long--generally speaking.
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I think Wojo(we) was playing to win last night. Heldt had 24 minutes, Luke 12 minutes. I believe Matt fouled out first, which implies Matt would had added more minutes and Luke less, if he hadn't fouled out.
I love who Matt is becoming and what he brings.
I would take an overachiever before an underachiever all day long.
Luke is an underachiever? He has gotten better each of his three years at Marquette in almost every statistical category.
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If we are playing to win Luke gets his minutes. No comparison and this stage of the two guys careers. Matt is nowhere near ready to get big time minutes. I doubt if he will ever get big time minutes.
This. No way Matt is as good as Luke new get in and night out. Can Matt be "Luke good" when he's a senior? Maybe. But he isn't right now.
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No--Generally speaking--I personally would take an overachiever all day long. Not saying Luke is an underachiever.
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No--Generally speaking--I personally would take an underachiever all day long. Not saying Luke is an underachiever.
Gotcha.
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Held is a good role player who is improving. Luke is a proven starter who has issues but is clearly the better option if both are playing to their potential.
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Heldt is not just a better defender than Fisher. He's a better rebounder, has a higher basketball IQ, is in the right place more often, works harder, and makes fewer mistakes. Sounds like a starter to me.
Yes and no. Heldt is more likely to be out of position and get beat on a back door play. I think he is a better defender straight up against a center trying to back him down. Fischer is a better shot blocker. Heldt is a better defensive rebounder.
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It completely depends on how hard Luke works.
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I kind of liked the starting lineup. Luke, Reinhardt, and JJJ can score off of the bench, Cheatham can defend off the bench, Luke stays out of early foul trouble, and you can spread the floor with Howard, Rowsey, and Hauser starting together. Duane can slash and Heldt can be a grinder until he picks up a foul or we need some low post offense.
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I certainly hope not. This team ain't making the tournament if Matt Heldt is starting and getting more minutes than Luke.
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I certainly hope not. This team ain't making the tournament if Matt Heldt is starting and getting more minutes than Luke.
And you say that why? Look, I think Luke is a better player. But Matt plays D and rebounds better. That's a skill we very much need on the floor. Now if Luke can elevate his game on the defensive end it's a no brainer, of course. Matt was a huge reason we won yesterday. And had Markus not broken records, an easy SOTG winner.
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One thing we have seen with Wojo is that who starts isn't all that important. He will give any position's backup a good run and whoever is playing better usually is who will get the majority of minutes - especially crunch-time minutes.
One need look only at how he has deployed Markus/Rowsey and JJJ/Duane.
He might start Heldt again for various reasons. But when Luke comes in to replace Matt, if Luke plays well he will end up with more minutes. And if the situation dictates - as has happened several times already this season - it's quite likely that neither will be in the game at crunch time (and not just because both have fouled out).
In general, I think Wojo has had a nice feel for distributing playing time. Saturday's game did feel a bit different because it certainly appeared he wanted to send a message.
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Except fully two of Fischer's fouls were moronic, foolish plays that someone shouldn't commit even in their Sophomore year. Both late in the game when foul trouble needed to be part of their approach, the first was a stupid foul 90 feet from the basket after X had clearly secured a defensive rebound and he reached and the second was his 5th and final foul when he simply should have given the layup at a point when two points meant next to nothing compared to his continuing eligibility.
I think his 3rd foul was chasing a guard at center court.
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This is a tough one. Fischer is a better player but heldt is able to rebound. Something we desperately need. I like the combo of howard and rowsey and have been asking for it all year. I believe heldt starts next game as well.
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Are we really going to say Heldt is the starter? Good change-up by Wojo when it was necessary but come on. Some silly stuff going on after a nice win and hot shooting performance from Markus. I am less worried about us up front next year with Heldt, Froling, John and Eke, but Luke should not be coming off the bench for more than another game or so. Luke's had some great defensive performances this year.
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I think his 3rd foul was chasing a guard at center court.
Was it really? God, I must be trying to forget. >:(
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I think Wojo should have a daily tryout and top 5 start/play.
Glow---I thought I was watching Otule on those screen hedge foul 35' from the basket. When LF had 4 fouls and he is interlocking arms with OMeara I was screaming at Luke for 3 seconds prior to the call that the refs had to call. It wasn't necessary and I was obvious. Bizarre.
It's a dilemma, and the correct answer is to favor aggressiveness over timidity, at least in the Big East. It may not work in any given game in the NCAA tournament, but it usually wins in the BE.
This teams thinks too much, at this level it is a game of instinct.
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One game is not even close to the amount of data needed to assess who should start. Luke is the better player, but Heldt picked up a lot of fouls quick. I think that was just more to the refs being absolutely terrible on both ends. A technical in the first 2 minutes, in a big east game? Ridiculous.
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I really like the idea of not starting Luke just to help keep him out of foul trouble. How many times has Luke picked up one either stupid or ticky tack foul in the first 4 minutes or so of the game? I'd personally rather have Heldt be the recipient of that. The game is 40 minutes long, is there really any difference in Luke sitting the first 4 or so vs 4 in the middle of the game at different points? I will say there is a huge difference when he has to sit or play timidly at the end of the game.
Heldt is a solid role player right now but reality is we need Luke to be able to play with no handcuffs on him at the end of the game.
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I really like the idea of not starting Luke just to help keep him out of foul trouble. How many times has Luke picked up one either stupid or ticky tack foul in the first 4 minutes or so of the game? I'd personally rather have Heldt be the recipient of that. The game is 40 minutes long, is there really any difference in Luke sitting the first 4 or so vs 4 in the middle of the game at different points? I will say there is a huge difference when he has to sit or play timidly at the end of the game.
Heldt is a solid role player right now but reality is we need Luke to be able to play with no handcuffs on him at the end of the game.
Luke picked up 5 fouls in 12 minutes of playing time. Everyone think about that for a second. And he's a Senior. Just wow.
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I'd rather start Luke simply because I think he's better at winning the tip. That can conceivably make a two-possession difference in a game if you win the tip, get the last shot in the first half, have the possession arrow to start the second, and have the last possession in the second half. In a close game, two more offensive possessions than your opponent is big, especially when you factor in our offensive efficiency.
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Luke picked up 5 fouls in 12 minutes of playing time. Everyone think about that for a second. And he's a Senior. Just wow.
Awful, I forgot to mention that in no way should he ever be picking up a guard at the top of the key. Teams are intentionally drawing him out of the paint at this point. I'd rather take my chances with teams taking mid-range jumpers instead of wide open layups/dunks because Luke came up to play help defense on a guard. that was driving.
Not crapping on Wojo but that's gotta be coaching, right?
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I'd rather start Luke simply because I think he's better at winning the tip. That can conceivably make a two-possession difference in a game if you win the tip, get the last shot in the first half, have the possession arrow to start the second, and have the last possession in the second half. In a close game, two more offensive possessions than your opponent is big, especially when you factor in our offensive efficiency.
Is there a statistically significant correlation between teams that win the opening tip and teams that win the game?
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Is there a statistically significant correlation between teams that win the opening tip and teams that win the game?
No idea, but if you win the opening tip, the worst case scenario in a regulation game is finishing -1 in the offensive possession count. I'd be curious to see what the record was in close games based on the winner of the tip.
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One game is not even close to the amount of data needed to assess who should start. Luke is the better player, but Heldt picked up a lot of fouls quick. I think that was just more to the refs being absolutely terrible on both ends. A technical in the first 2 minutes, in a big east game? Ridiculous.
I think this is definitely right. Matt played what was easily the best game of his career against X, but I don't think that's enough to put him in the starting 5 for the rest of the season. He showed that he can play more minutes and contribute while on the floor, but I still don't think it's enough to give him the starting spot. Let's hope we continue to see this kind of improvement from him for the rest of the season and be happy with that.
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Heldt should continue to start n play more minutes than the fish. People look at the fishs points but its truly fools gold. His atrocious defense and poor rebounding and horrible free throw shooting cost us more points than he ever scores. We have the second best scoring offense in the big east. Without the fish we can still score a ton. We need interior defensive toughness n rebounding. A huge part of the start against X was heldts interior toughness n rebounding. We get none of that from the fish
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Heldt should continue to start n play more minutes than the fish. People look at the fishs points but its truly fools gold. His atrocious defense and poor rebounding and horrible free throw shooting cost us more points than he ever scores. We have the second best scoring offense in the big east. Without the fish we can still score a ton. We need interior defensive toughness n rebounding. A huge part of the start against X was heldts interior toughness n rebounding. We get none of that from the fish
A huge part of the start against X was they didn't have their 2 best players.
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I imagine Heldt will start every game outside of Senior Night vs. Creighton.
With that being said, that doesn't necessarily mean he will be getting "starters minutes". I think Luke will end up getting more minutes, but Wojo will continue to bring him off the bench. Maybe to try and prevent him from getting 3 Fouls in the 1H. Maybe to try and motivate him.
But Heldt getting more minutes than Fischer was a 1-time thing IMO.
I'm more curious to see how the minutes will be allocated at the 2-4. JJJ won't get zero minutes vs. STJ. But I also think Wilson's minutes are here to stay.
Will we continue to see Howard/Rowsey play extended minutes together?
Personally I loved seeing those two starting. Why wait 8 minutes to find out if Rowsey is going to have a hot shooting night. Two highest eFg%'s on the team. Would love to find ways to consistently get them minutes together.
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If the seniors can be extricated from the lineup while the team is successful on achieving an NCAA berth, then I will tip my hat to Wojo.
If that is indeed the case, next year's team with such a level of success and toughness could be very interesting.
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The idea of Helen starting, much less getting more minutes than Luke, is ridiculous. I hate to say it but the success or failure of this season rests largely on Fischer. We will only go as far as his shoulders carry us
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Since Creighton on 1/21 Luke's averaging 3 blocks per game and only had two games with 5 fouls. Yes, he's not what we expected and hoped he could be by now but again, let's not get carried away with Heldt playing a ton up front.
He's still shooting very efficiently and getting his points other than the team taking a big crap vs. GTown. The thing to take away from all of this is that fact that Heldt is not completely lost and a liability everywhere on the floor anymore.
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The question of this thread is what frustrates me about the hopes of MU ball. IMO, there is not one person that knows a lick about ball that could even think Matt over Luke and hope for NCAA success. If these are the questions we are going debate, maybe MU leaving the Big East thread is not as idiotic as I originally thought.
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The idea of Helen starting, much less getting more minutes than Luke, is ridiculous. I hate to say it but the success or failure of this season rests largely on Fischer. We will only go as far as his shoulders carry us
Helen should not be starting, let alone even dressing, for any games at this point.
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The question of this thread is what frustrates me about the hopes of MU ball. IMO, there is not one person that knows a lick about ball that could even think Matt over Luke and hope for NCAA success. If these are the questions we are going debate, maybe MU leaving the Big East thread is not as idiotic as I originally thought.
I'm old enough to remember Erik Williams starting games over Jae Crowder. So no, it's not some wild or idiotic premise.
If the coach thinks it's a way to get the best out of his two big guys, then I'm fine with trying it. Luke's performance Saturday didn't inspire a ton of confidence, though.
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According to Pomeroy Luke gets a higher % of available rebounds on both offense and defense then Matt.
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According to Pomeroy Luke gets a higher % of available rebounds on both offense and defense then Matt.
Luke beats Matt in every statistical category. But that won't stop backup QB syndrome!
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Luke is clearly the better player and we need him on the court most games, but there is nothing wrong with Matt seeing a few more minutes per game. If the other players on the court are scoring the ball and Matt is doing a good job defensively and rebounding, we can be just fine. I see nothing wrong with letting a lineup roll when they're on a 19-0 run like Wojo did for the first 5 minutes of the game Saturday, and if Matt happens to be in instead of Luke during that run, so be it.
And I don't even see a problem with Heldt starting in place of Luke. Luke can come in with some guys who maybe aren't as big of threats to score and be an offensive presence and it can possibly help save him some fouls. And if he fouls out in 12 minutes then Heldt needs to play a lot. Obviously we need him on the court for more than 12 minutes, but if it's between starting while going 2 games without getting a defensive rebound or playing aggressive off the bench (I don't think I've ever seen him deflect a pass and then save it falling out of bounds before Saturday) I'll take the latter.
Luke has talent. Matt plays hard. Both bring something different to the court.
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My opinion is that Wojo switched up the lineup to give a message to some of his players that starting positions are earned through effort, not seniority. I don't think it is a permanent change, nor should it be. We will see Luke in the starting lineup tomorrow night.
I think Duane may continue starting, though.
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The question of this thread is what frustrates me about the hopes of MU ball. IMO, there is not one person that knows a lick about ball that could even think Matt over Luke and hope for NCAA success. If these are the questions we are going debate, maybe MU leaving the Big East thread is not as idiotic as I originally thought.
I'm happy to see Matt having some success, and those moments encourage me about the future, but this is dead on. Luke is just a better player right now. He had a bad night Saturday while Matt played well, but I've no doubt that's the exception, not the rule
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I'm old enough to remember Erik Williams starting games over Jae Crowder. So no, it's not some wild or idiotic premise.
If the coach thinks it's a way to get the best out of his two big guys, then I'm fine with trying it. Luke's performance Saturday didn't inspire a ton of confidence, though.
As I said earlier, who starts is immaterial. If Wojo is a good communicator, he can get Luke to buy into coming off the bench (if that indeed is what Wojo intends to do). Luke can still get far more minutes, although I would expect Heldt to get more than the 2 minutes Erik Williams usually got!
As for Luke's skills ... he's a far better offensive player - not even close - and also a superior shot-blocker. Heldt appears to be a slightly better rebounder (although some stats would say otherwise), better at drawing charges and a somewhat more rugged kid. All IMHO, of course - except the offense part, which is factually supported by just about every possible metric.
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MUfan12
I equate starting with playing minutes. If he wants to start Matt and play him two minutes I could not care less. Matt is a backup and should get backup minutes and whenever they fall in the first 30 minutes of the game is fine by me.
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I'd rather start Luke simply because I think he's better at winning the tip. That can conceivably make a two-possession difference in a game if you win the tip, get the last shot in the first half, have the possession arrow to start the second, and have the last possession in the second half. In a close game, two more offensive possessions than your opponent is big, especially when you factor in our offensive efficiency.
Good point, in the overall scheme of things it's important.
This decision does not depend on stats as much as chemistry. Heldt seems to bring a lot of attitude, desire, motivation with him and that is infectious for the rest of the team. It also seems to me that the guys really like playing with him and that is very important. Not that they don't like Luke, but they seem to really dig Heldt. There is plenty of time to go around and playing with purpose is important and if necessary, after they both foul out, we go to small ball and all is not lost.
Big's are highly overrated anyway.
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This debate is largely irrelevant--it's a guard's game.
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Love the whiplash in regards to heldt. He has gone from being the worst scholarship player in the Big East, to people wanting him to start, to D 2 and questioning the insanity of whoever says he is developing, to whether or not he starts the rest if the year.
Matt is doing fine. Luke is better.
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Some math for you metrics guys. Eng said on the Pod (or was it just Eng agreeing with Joe 100%) that X scored 0.91 ppp. I'd be very interested in the breakdown of that statistic when Matty was on the floor vs. Luke. And let me state this upfront. Duane had a lot to do with the overall improvement on D. But that breakdown might be instructive.
Again, Luke is better. But the question properly is whether Matt is better at some things (perhaps rim protection, rebounding) and does that need to be given greater emphasis going forward. Remember, we gave up 0.91 ppp Saturday.
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Some math for you metrics guys. Eng said on the Pod (or was it just Eng agreeing with Joe 100%) that X scored 0.91 ppp. I'd be very interested in the breakdown of that statistic when Matty was on the floor vs. Luke. And let me state this upfront. Duane had a lot to do with the overall improvement on D. But that breakdown might be instructive.
Again, Luke is better. But the question properly is whether Matt is better at some things (perhaps rim protection, rebounding) and does that need to be given greater emphasis going forward. Remember, we gave up 0.91 ppp Saturday.
Our help-side defense/rotation was great against Xavier. Some of that was having Duane out there. A lot of that was playing against a Xavier team that shot 2-17 from 3. Our guys were allowed to sag into the lane and really make it difficult to get easy looks in the paint - because they had no threat from outside.
I'm happy with the way our defense performed, but it will be much more difficult to perform at that level vs. St Johns.
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Our help-side defense/rotation was great against Xavier. Some of that was having Duane out there. A lot of that was playing against a Xavier team that shot 2-17 from 3. Our guys were allowed to sag into the lane and really make it difficult to get easy looks in the paint - because they had no threat from outside.
I'm happy with the way our defense performed, but it will be much more difficult to perform at that level vs. St Johns.
True, but it will still be interesting to see if the results were different depending which center was on the floor.
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The question of this thread is what frustrates me about the hopes of MU ball. IMO, there is not one person that knows a lick about ball that could even think Matt over Luke and hope for NCAA success. If these are the questions we are going debate, maybe MU leaving the Big East thread is not as idiotic as I originally thought.
With such low enthusiasm for the program being discussed, why do you care whether the questions being asked are inane or substantial?
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Goose, I hate to say it, but, it may be time for you to retire.
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Golden
I am holding out hope that some of my knowledge on the program's history might rub off on you. I am considering it an online mentoring program.
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No
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Some math for you metrics guys. Eng said on the Pod (or was it just Eng agreeing with Joe 100%) that X scored 0.91 ppp. I'd be very interested in the breakdown of that statistic when Matty was on the floor vs. Luke. And let me state this upfront. Duane had a lot to do with the overall improvement on D. But that breakdown might be instructive.
Again, Luke is better. But the question properly is whether Matt is better at some things (perhaps rim protection, rebounding) and does that need to be given greater emphasis going forward. Remember, we gave up 0.91 ppp Saturday.
I don't have the specific data you are looking for but was curious about something similar. I watched the game again and paid attention to how many points at the rim were scored by Xavier and who was defending. Here is the results:
Heldt:
Total: 12/21 FG, 4 fouls drawn, 0 blocks, 1 drawn charge
Gaston: 5/8, 2 fouls drawn
Jones: 3/4, 1 foul drawn
O'Mara: 1/2, 1 foul drawn
Others: 3/7 1 drawn charge
Fischer:
Total: 4/10 FG, 2 fouls drawn, 2 blocks, 0 drawn charges
Gaston: 0/0 FG
Jones: 0/0 FG
O'Mara: 4/6 FG, 1 foul drawn, 1 block
Others: 0/4 FG, 1 foul drawn, 1 block
It's one game, so not definitive. But if people were trying to say that Matt was a lockdown defender while Luke was sieve....they are mistaken.
Biggest concern for Luke was 3 fouls not challenging a shot at the rim. One was a VERY soft moving pick call. Even the announcers were skeptical. One was on an offensive board, trying to be aggressive but didn't have position. The third one was one of his patented 40 feet from the basket fouls.
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I don't have the specific data you are looking for but was curious about something similar. I watched the game again and paid attention to how many points at the rim were scored by Xavier and who was defending. Here is the results:
Heldt:
Total: 12/21 FG, 4 fouls drawn, 0 blocks, 1 drawn charge
Gaston: 5/8, 2 fouls drawn
Jones: 3/4, 1 foul drawn
O'Mara: 1/2, 1 foul drawn
Others: 3/7 1 drawn charge
Fischer:
Total: 4/10 FG, 2 fouls drawn, 2 blocks, 0 drawn charges
Gaston: 0/0 FG
Jones: 0/0 FG
O'Mara: 4/6 FG, 1 foul drawn, 1 block
Others: 0/4 FG, 1 foul drawn, 1 block
It's one game, so not definitive. But if people were trying to say that Matt was a lockdown defender while Luke was sieve....they are mistaken.
Biggest concern for Luke was 3 fouls not challenging a shot at the rim. One was a VERY soft moving pick call. Even the announcers were skeptical. One was on an offensive board, trying to be aggressive but didn't have position. The third one was one of his patented 40 feet from the basket fouls.
Interesting stuff, TAMU.
About that last paragraph ... that is my main concern with bringing Luke off the bench. He might try too hard, and that would lead to some dopey fouls. It's a fine line, because sometimes he is too passive and seemingly trying to avoid fouls.
A center SHOULD commit several fouls a game, but they need to be the right kind - slamming somebody while defending our basket. I especially hate those hedging fouls ... so frustrating and unnecessary. It's my least favorite part of Wojo's strategy by far.
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Good info, but really, Heldt is not coordinated enough to defend in the Big East, very foul prone, but I give him credit for his hustle and improvement, has come along
way but has along way to go. Fisher has some IQ basketball deficiencies because why is a center fouling 35 feet from the basket every game. It is ridiculous. Luke
had at least 2 questionable fouls last game, the pick and another under the basket. The refs last game were horrible. They did not let anybody play the game. At
least there is 10 fouls between the both. Tomorrow should be interesting as the Johnnies just have skinny tall kids that are quick, they should be getting the ball to
Luke all game, and just fake them out, but remember do not walk.
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I don't have the specific data you are looking for but was curious about something similar. I watched the game again and paid attention to how many points at the rim were scored by Xavier and who was defending. Here is the results:
Heldt:
Total: 12/21 FG, 4 fouls drawn, 0 blocks, 1 drawn charge
Gaston: 5/8, 2 fouls drawn
Jones: 3/4, 1 foul drawn
O'Mara: 1/2, 1 foul drawn
Others: 3/7 1 drawn charge
Fischer:
Total: 4/10 FG, 2 fouls drawn, 2 blocks, 0 drawn charges
Gaston: 0/0 FG
Jones: 0/0 FG
O'Mara: 4/6 FG, 1 foul drawn, 1 block
Others: 0/4 FG, 1 foul drawn, 1 block
It's one game, so not definitive. But if people were trying to say that Matt was a lockdown defender while Luke was sieve....they are mistaken.
Biggest concern for Luke was 3 fouls not challenging a shot at the rim. One was a VERY soft moving pick call. Even the announcers were skeptical. One was on an offensive board, trying to be aggressive but didn't have position. The third one was one of his patented 40 feet from the basket fouls.
Matt hedges off of ball screens way better than Luke. In this game, he grabbed a boat load of rebounds that I don't think Luke would have and provided great fired up energy that this team was lacking.
I don't think anyone thinks Matt is a better player than Luke but he might be a better fit in the lineup and the defensive scheme that Wojo is running. He definitely was a better fit against X.
It will be interesting to see how this dynamic plays out the next game and beyond.
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What is your basis for Matt grabbed rebounds Luke wouldn't have? Luke's TR% is significantly higher than Matt's.
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Matt hedges off of ball screens way better than Luke. In this game, he grabbed a boat load of rebounds that I don't think Luke would have and provided great fired up energy that this team was lacking.
I don't think anyone thinks Matt is a better player than Luke but he might be a better fit in the lineup and the defensive scheme that Wojo is running. He definitely was a better fit against X.
It will be interesting to see how this dynamic plays out the next game and beyond.
+1 billion
How many of those rebounds does luke come no where near or fumble out of bounds? The big early run is negated by offensive putbacks. Luke is a more skilled, more skilled talented player, but potential never won anything. Lukes career has been earmarked by poor defense, poor clutch play, and beeing bullied around by BE 4s n 5s. Again Lukes scoring is fools gold, as the lack of toughness, defense, and rebounding makes his play a net negative for the team. This team does not need a scoring 5, it needs a 5 with heart and toughness
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+1 billion
How many of those rebounds does luke come no where near or fumble out of bounds? The big early run is negated by offensive putbacks. Luke is a more skilled, more skilled talented player, but potential never won anything. Lukes career has been earmarked by poor defense, poor clutch play, and beeing bullied around by BE 4s n 5s. Again Lukes scoring is fools gold, as the lack of toughness, defense, and rebounding makes his play a net negative for the team. This team does not need a scoring 5, it needs a 5 with heart and toughness
Again, Luke's TR% is significantly better than Heldt's and is one of the best in the conference. You are assertions are simply not based on fact.
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TAMU
Wasting your time talking Matt vs. Luke. If anyone needs to be convinced that Luke is the only choice at the 5 then they probably are not everyday ball fans.
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What is your basis for Matt grabbed rebounds Luke wouldn't have? Luke's TR% is significantly higher than Matt's.
The eye test I guess. Now that Matt is getting more playing time you can start comparing stats. Hard to put up stats when you play very sparingly.
Again, I don't think Matt is more talented than Luke but this is now 2 games in a row where Matt has had extended playing time and he seems to be contributing more than Luke. I really like the way who moves on the defensive end.
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I can't speak for tomorrow, but I will guarantee that if there's a game to be played in Phoenix this year, Heldt is starting both of them.
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I certainly hope not. This team ain't making the tournament if Matt Heldt is starting and getting more minutes than Luke.
does this game convince you that heldt is better than fish
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The eye test I guess. Now that Matt is getting more playing time you can start comparing stats. Hard to put up stats when you play very sparingly.
Again, I don't think Matt is more talented than Luke but this is now 2 games in a row where Matt has had extended playing time and he seems to be contributing more than Luke. I really like the way who moves on the defensive end.
smh
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does this game convince you that heldt is better than fish
Oh come on.
A game or two doesn't make it so.
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does this game convince you that heldt is better than fish
Not even a little bit. 1 game should never convince you of anyone being better than anyone.
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YES!
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In a perfect world, Luke feels threatened and becomes beastlike, averaging a double double down the stretch. But right now, it ain't broke.
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Really liked the way Heldt would hedge on screens but then not get stuck out at the 3 point line and then hustle - and I mean hustle! - back to the paint and his man.
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Really liked the way Heldt would hedge on screens but then not get stuck out at the 3 point line and then hustle - and I mean hustle! - back to the paint and his man.
Yep! non-box score type stuff this team needs out of the 5 spot. Hope Luke takes note and starts playing D in a similar manner. Rooting for him to do just that, been through a lot with the program and he'll be key to any run we might put together to close out the season.
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Wojo will play the Hot Hand. So Matt starts, and Luke has a great game at PC
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does this game convince you that heldt is better than fish
Absolutely not. All it does is make more feel a little better about next year until Froling is eligible.
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Held clearly gives us a much better chance to win. He doesn't make the mistakes that Fischer makes. We are simply better with him on the floor.
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i'm not saying matt is the better player, but he very well could be the better player for this team if he can prove to be reliable for extended minutes. anyone who works in the field of research will tell you that both qualitative and quantitative data are bias in both observation and interpretation. we can all make a lot of judgments about players and coaches, but in the end all we can really grade them on is wins and losses. what wojo has done has worked, i certainly appreciate that we know matt is going to bring it every night, and while he's just as susceptible to a bad night as luke is, you feel like at least he'll bring effort and intensity when struggling.
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It's hard to argue that statistically, Luke is the better player.
However, we are 2-0 with Matt, and have won both games by huge margins.
These are the kind of problems we like to have.
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Heldt has made this an easy decision for Wojo.
You're 2-0 with him, and he's playing well. If he struggles, you have an option that pretty much any team in the country would like to have coming off the bench. Then, as the game progresses, you go with the guy who is playing better, giving you better matchups, staying out of foul trouble, etc.
Always, always, always good to have options.
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It's hard to argue that statistically, Luke is the better player.
However, we are 2-0 with Matt, and have won both games by huge margins.
These are the kind of problems we like to have.
I argue with statistics all the time. There is more to life than statistics. If it were only statistics then decision making would be easy. Decisions are what we do without statistics or in spite of them.
As I said yesterday Matt is all about intangibles.
Did you see the love of the coach, the team and the audience last night for the kid? Did you see his smile? PRICELESS
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.......and hasn't LF still fouled out the last two games in his limited playing time?
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.......and hasn't LF still fouled out the last two games in his limited playing time?
As Miles would say, "So What ". As a team we have 10 fouls to give at the position, use them all. We have been too timid giving fouls, as Mullin said, make them earn it. Claim your space, good coaching that.
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Fouling on a hedged screen 35' from the basket or reaching on an obvious dunk for an and one, I certainly would not consider "making them earn it".
Who gives a sheet what Mullins says? Last time I checked he coaches the other team, not ours.
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Did you see the love of the coach, the team and the audience last night for the kid? Did you see his smile? PRICELESS
If that's what matters, then let's just bench Howard in favor of Cam Marotta. SMDH. I bet you bought the collectors edition of Rudy ::)
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If that's what matters, then let's just bench Howard in favor of Cam Marotta. SMDH. I bet you bought the collectors edition of Rudy ::)
I agree with Vogue on this one. Is your criticism a carry over from that really stupid thread he started earlier?
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I agree with Vogue on this one. Is your criticism a carry over from that really stupid thread he started earlier?
No. Last night was a great moment. I was absolutely cheering for Heldt and gave a screaming, standing ovation when he snagged his 10th rebound. But making long term decisions based on emotion over tangible facts is simply stupid.
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.......and hasn't LF still fouled out the last two games in his limited playing time?
Yes. I believe Luke fouled out in 12 minutes against X and fouled out in 11 minutes against SJU.
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So how long until there's a discussion about playing Heldt at the 5 and Fishy at the 4?
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So how long until there's a discussion about playing Heldt at the 5 and Fishy at the 4?
Thats just asking for Hauser to play the 5 for the entire second half.
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So how long until there's a discussion about playing Heldt at the 5 and Fishy at the 4?
The Feldt lineup?
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BrewCity
I agree with you on the Cam reference. Last night we were talking and the pro Matt crowd is still hoping The Engine comes back to replace Markus. Too many guys want to be right on here. I can assure that when I post negative comments I am always hoping to be proven wrong.
Very happy for Matt and hope he enjoyed the night and the praise. That said, I do not believe he is the short term answer to get the boys into the NCAA. Again, hope I am wrong, just do not see it happening.
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The Feldt lineup?
Feel the Feldt
Get Feldt
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Feel the Feldt
Get Feldt
I got aRowsey-ed after you Feldt me up
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I got aRowsey-ed after you Feldt me up
Did it make your Reinhardt?
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Did it make your Reinhardt?
Did it make your Johnson Reinhardt?
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Did it make your Reinhardt?
Wilson one please think of the children before asking questions about how Reinhardt my Johnson is? When I get Feldt up I can't help but get aRowsey-ed. Howard you feel to be Cheathem-ed out of a special feeling in your Hausers?
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Fouling on a hedged screen 35' from the basket or reaching on an obvious dunk for an and one, I certainly would not consider "making them earn it".
Who gives a sheet what Mullins says? Last time I checked he coaches the other team, not ours.
Because good coaching is good coaching no matter the source. Our Sainted Big AL would coach by yelling out plays from the side line. The plays had names like, Wake Forest, South Carolina or UCLA, ha. Plays he liked, or plays that beat us had names, he would recognise good coaching when he saw it.
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Wilson one please think of the children before asking questions about how Reinhardt my Johnson is? When I get Feldt up I can't help but get aRowsey-ed. Howard you feel to be Cheathem-ed out of a special feeling in your Hausers?
Cam we get back to the topic posed by the OP?
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If that's what matters, then let's just bench Howard in favor of Cam Marotta. SMDH. I bet you bought the collectors edition of Rudy ::)
C'mon Brew, your better than this.
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Cam we get back to the topic posed by the OP?
(http://i.imgur.com/j6ZBj.gif)
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Wilson one please think of the children before asking questions about how Reinhardt my Johnson is? When I get Feldt up I can't help but get aRowsey-ed. Howard you feel to be Cheathem-ed out of a special feeling in your Hausers?
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/3f30e5aff49f8d5fb40896025ea94584/tumblr_n1uazgR1JJ1qln00mo1_500.gif)
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Over the last two games, Fischer has done nothing to earn his starting spot back and Heldt has done nothing to warrant being sent back to the bench.