MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on February 19, 2017, 06:31:40 AM
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His 34 points against X is a new true Freshman record, breaking Henry Ellenson's mark set last year.
His 9-of-12 shooting from three-point range tied Mark Anglavar's program record set Feb. 1, 1990, against Butler.
As Lloyd Legs noted, he now has enough attempts that he is leading the country with 52.7% from downtown.
Questions/Thoughts
Will he be MUs second Big East Freshman of the year winner (after Henry last year)? Who is his competition?
Who do you think he is "better" than Henry after 1 season? I get they play different positions. Thoughts?
He is the best freshman point guard since Dom James. DJ was so good that he flirted with declaring for the draft after his Freshman year. But his freshman year was arguably his best (although his senior year was starting to look better then he broke his foot).
Also see Hannif who is struggling this year.
Do you think he has a sophomore slump like Hannif and DJ? I do only because he will be the focal point of defenses next year (if not next game). On the other side, that means Hannif can break out.
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The best thing for Howard next year is that Rowsey is still around. When one of them has the ball, the other often ends up open. It's too bad that it's hard to play two guys together that are both <6 foot. Haanif's slump is mostly because he's been asked to do a lot, especially on D. I don't think Markus will get the same responsibilities and he can focus on shooting, and on getting to the hoop.
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I think M2N's performance and prospects are relatively independent from HC. I think HC benefits though from a stronger M2N.
If he can get stronger and focus on developing his driving to the hole and dishing/finishing he can be a really special player with the already stratospheric shooting ability.
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As far as BE rookie of year:
Patton from Creighton
Lovett/Ponds from St' Johns
Probably be one of the four.
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I wish Markus could teach HC the little rainbow.
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As mentioned, Patton is pretty impressive. I think he gets BE Freshman of a the year. Not to say Howard isn't. But I think Patton has more dimensions.
I'm just hoping Howard stays 4 years. I know he needs to be more consistent and could work on his handle a bit before the NBA. His teardrop game is pretty good but also could use some work to get to NBA level.
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Should Marcus declare afta dis season, hey?
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He is the best freshman point guard since Dom James. DJ was so good that he flirted with declaring for the draft after his Freshman year. But his freshman year was arguably his best (although his senior year was starting to look better then he broke his foot).
Also see Hannif who is struggling this year.
Do you think he has a sophomore slump like Hannif and DJ? I do only because he will be the focal point of defenses next year (if not next game). On the other side, that means Hannif can break out.
Very different comps... very different players. The offense vs. defense angle is glaring. The issue for Markus is that he'll be competing with ridiculously great comps from 3 next year. His shooting has been outstanding, and he's been great from deep even when guarded. Just amazing. There's not really room for improvement... so, I'd project his eFG% to drop a little.. but he can improve his turnover rate just a tad.. maybe up his assist & free throw rates... biggest thing for Markus next year will be how much can he improve defensively?
Haanif shot the ball really well last year.. 54.3% eFG%.. expected that to come down.. it has.. to 48.7%. It's come down too much, but a drop was expected. NEEDED to decrease his turnover rate, and he's done that, but most of the improvement was against weak comp.. NEEDED more DR from him.. he's done that.. disappointing conference campaign from him... I don't see Markus having such significant drop off in offense.. and there's only room to improve defensively..
DJ was never a shooter. His career best eFG% in a season was 48.1%. He was a career 29.1% 3-point shooter. 90 million moons away from Markus. Such very, very different players.
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Remember how Ponds dominated Howard the first St. John's game.
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Remember how Ponds dominated Howard the first St. John's game.
I remember how Ponds played 24 more minutes than Markus. Awful game for Howard; hopefully he evens the score on Tuesday
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Remember how Ponds dominated Howard the first St. John's game.
Reece Gaines outplayed Dwyane the first game in 2002-03 when they were fighting for C-USA POY. The second game was pretty different.
Tuesday's game against SJU and our final game against Creighton will give us a better look at Markus compared to the other legit candidates.
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His 34 points against X is a new true Freshman record, breaking Henry Ellenson's mark set last year.
His 9-of-12 shooting from three-point range tied Mark Anglavar's program record set Feb. 1, 1990, against Butler.
As Lloyd Legs noted, he now has enough attempts that he is leading the country with 52.7% from downtown.
Questions/Thoughts
Will he be MUs second Big East Freshman of the year winner (after Henry last year)? Who is his competition?
Who do you think he is "better" than Henry after 1 season? I get they play different positions. Thoughts?
He is the best freshman point guard since Dom James. DJ was so good that he flirted with declaring for the draft after his Freshman year. But his freshman year was arguably his best (although his senior year was starting to look better then he broke his foot).
Also see Hannif who is struggling this year.
Do you think he has a sophomore slump like Hannif and DJ? I do only because he will be the focal point of defenses next year (if not next game). On the other side, that means Hannif can break out.
I don't think Markus gets FOY unless he goes on real tear the rest of the way. I think Ponds, LoVett, and Patton are in the lead just from a raw numbers perspective. Baldwin is also in the conversation. Myles Powell from Seton Hall and Hauser are probably the next best freshmen. Lots of really short guards in the conversation.
I think Henry is better overall. That might be because he was blessed with his size but size matters in basketball (giggity).
My understanding is that Howard CAN'T declare for the NBA draft this year because he's too young.
Haanif is in a "slump" but not as bad of one as fans think. As Jay Bee pointed out, his scoring has gone down but he's improved greatly in other key areas. Haanif's role has just changed. He's become more of a Trent Lockett instead of a Jerel McNeal. With as many scorers as this team has, that might be a good thing.
Markus could end up "slumping" but only because his 3P% is so ungodly high. It's hard to imagine him improving on it next year. But I think he will get more minutes and other areas like defense, turnovers, and distribution will all improve. With any luck, he'll grow an inch or two.
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Great to see that Marcus's AAA game has returned.
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Markus could end up "slumping" but only because his 3P% is so ungodly high. It's hard to imagine him improving on it next year. But I think he will get more minutes and other areas like defense, turnovers, and distribution will all improve. With any luck, he'll grow an inch or two.
I agree that he 3P% will most likely go down next year. It it stays the same or even improves from 53% he'll be in the conversation for the greatest CBB shooters all-time.
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I don't think Markus gets FOY unless he goes on real tear the rest of the way. I think Ponds, LoVett, and Patton are in the lead just from a raw numbers perspective. Baldwin is also in the conversation. Myles Powell from Seton Hall and Hauser are probably the next best freshmen. Lots of really short guards in the conversation.
Speaks to the strength of the Big East that a Freshman point guard that is leading the nation in 3P shooting might only be the 4th best freshman in the conference.
He'd be running away with this award in just about any other conference.
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Love Markus but still not worried at all about an early NBA. He would not leave unless a first round draft pick was in the offing. At his height that will be a tall order. :P
Will only get worried if in the coming years he ends up being a 6+ apg guy too. Then I will start to worry.
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I'm also not worried about Markus leaving to soon, he and his family seem to really value education.
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Tuesday's game will be interesting. Markus was, in a word, horrendous the last time MU met St. John's. 6 TOs in 15 mins ... that's not easy to do! Meanwhile, Ponds and Lovett killed us.
He obviously is a tough-minded kid, so it will be telling to see how he responds.
Of course, it's not only up to him. He had plenty of company in the Suckage Dept. vs. St. John's, including the coach. So it will be a nice test for the entire team.
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Speaks to the strength of the Big East that a Freshman point guard that is leading the nation in 3P shooting might only be the 4th best freshman in the conference.
He'd be running away with this award in just about any other conference.
Yeah...no.
PAC 12 Ball, Leaf, Fultz
ACC Tatum, Smith
Big 12 Jackson
B1G Bridges
SEC Monk, Fox
And that's just off the top of my head. In other words, he wouldn't even be in contention if he was in any of the other power basketball conferences.
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Tuesday's game will be interesting. Markus was, in a word, horrendous the last time MU met St. John's. 6 TOs in 15 mins ... that's not easy to do! Meanwhile, Ponds and Lovett killed us.
He obviously is a tough-minded kid, so it will be telling to see how he responds.
Of course, it's not only up to him. He had plenty of company in the Suckage Dept. vs. St. John's, including the coach. So it will be a nice test for the entire team.
Exactly MU82.
Xavier did not press Howard nor did they try to trap him much. Howard has a LONG LONG way to go with ball handling and running the point before I worry about him leaving for the NBA**. In the BE he has not been good at simply handling the ball against a trap or press, or running the team. St. John's longer players and other teams have been totally taking him out of his game... but not Xavier yesterday. I hope he has turned a corner and gained some confidence and can split the double teams or at least make good decisions and not pull up the dribble early.
Xavier didn't play the defensive model against us. I don't know why, but maybe due to lack of guard depth? Maybe due to starting 3 guards who can all handle the ball to some extent? But, I for one am hoping that Howard comes out with a lot of confidence handling the rock against St. Johns. In my opinion, as important as getting open 3 looks.
**He has to be a superior point and ball handler against superior talent and length, to go along with his shooting, before he smells the first round of an NBA draft or a roster.
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Exactly MU82.
Xavier did not press Howard nor did they try to trap him much. Howard has a LONG LONG way to go with ball handling and running the point before I worry about him leaving for the NBA**. In the BE he has not been good at simply handling the ball against a trap or press, or running the team. St. John's longer players and other teams have been totally taking him out of his game... but not Xavier yesterday. I hope he has turned a corner and gained some confidence and can split the double teams or at least make good decisions and not pull up the dribble early.
Xavier didn't play the defensive model against us. I don't know why, but maybe due to lack of guard depth? Maybe due to starting 3 guards who can all handle the ball to some extent? But, I for one am hoping that Howard comes out with a lot of confidence handling the rock against St. Johns. In my opinion, as important as getting open 3 looks.
Hope he turned a corner? c'mon...
Yes, 6 TO's at St. John's in 15 minutes.. 0.4 turnovers every minute. Horrible.
But, in 4 games since, he's averaging 0.074 turnovers per minute.
and, in the in the 6 games PRIOR to the bad game at StJ, 0.076.
That game was the exception, not the rule. Suggesting otherwise is an awful lie.
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Well, if my perceptions do not meet with reality, than so be it and I'm wrong. Different than a lie, I hope.
Props to you, for seeing well in advance just how great Howard is... and letting us know about it.
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not a lot of 6'0 and under guys get drafted, let alone leave early.
2016 was rare because Tyler Ulis was drafted 34th and Kahlil Felder went 54th. However, both averaging less than 10 minutes a game this year.
The 6'0" or under early entrant pick prior to that was Isaiah Thomas being drafted 60th (with the final pick) in 2011. And he's just exploded the past couple years.
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not a lot of 6'0 and under guys get drafted, let alone leave early.
2016 was rare because Tyler Ulis was drafted 34th and Kahlil Felder went 54th. However, both averaging less than 10 minutes a game this year.
The 6'0" or under early entrant pick prior to that was Isaiah Thomas being drafted 60th (with the final pick) in 2011. And he's just exploded the past couple years.
Not a lot, but it happens. Jawun Evans of Oklahoma State may be next up, ainna?
Nonetheless, Markus needs to improve defensively.. a lot.
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I like the way the kid does extra work. He's gotta have Ponds on his mind. Will be interesting to see how he handles it Tues.
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I think Henry is better overall. That might be because he was blessed with his size but size matters in basketball (giggity).
Excellent
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If Markus stayed in high school, would he be a Top 10 recruit?
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If Markus stayed in high school, would he be a Top 10 recruit?
Top 20/25 probably. But, should have been this year. Nat'l service folks were lazy.
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If Markus stayed in high school, would he be a Top 10 recruit?
Can he take his rightful place in the 2017 McDonald's AA game this coming summer?
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Should Marcus declare afta dis season, hey?
He will not be old enough.
Here's hoping he's not tempted after NEXT season, though. Because although I think we will continue making nice progress in 2017-18, it is the following season that we could be serious FF contenders, in great part because we'll have one of the best PGs in the country.
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He will not be old enough.
Here's hoping he's not tempted after NEXT season, though. Because although I think we will continue making nice progress in 2017-18, it is the following season that we could be serious FF contenders, in great part because we'll have one of the best PGs in the country.
He is still awful small for the NBA, I would agree in two years, maybe. But I see him here all 4 years. Not quick enough yet, not sure he is in the same league as
Isiah Thomas, and that has to be his benchmark. Tonight will be interesting.
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He is still awful small for the NBA, I would agree in two years, maybe. But I see him here all 4 years. Not quick enough yet, not sure he is in the same league as
Isiah Thomas, and that has to be his benchmark. Tonight will be interesting.
As I've said elsewhere, the fact that a player might not be "ready" for the NBA does not mean he will stay in school. Athletes have all kinds of people whispering in their ears, often telling them conflicting information. Combine that with the fact that to be a great athlete, one must have supreme confidence, and it's sometimes too tempting to resist. And then there is whether the athlete likes school, believes he will prefer the college experience to the pros, needs money, etc, etc, etc. Many, many factors - and being "ready" might be one of the least in their eyes.
Henry wasn't "ready" for the NBA, but he never was going to stay here 2 years.
Vander wasn't "ready" for the NBA, but he wanted out of college.
Dozens upon dozens upon dozens of examples are available.
Selfishly, I hope Markus is here for 4 years. At his size, it will be a challenge to play in the NBA. He seems to value education highly. But who knows?
I'm enjoying him very much, am glad I will be able to say the same next season, and we'll see beyond that.
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If you look at under 6' NBA comps you have Isiah Thomas and (em) Isiah Thomas and AI and Nate Robinson and Aaron Brooks and Jameer Nelson and JJ Barea, DJ Augustin, Ty Lawson, Kyle Lowry. The closest I see is JJ Barea. Great shooter, OK floater... but he's so much stronger and quicker than Howard. All the others are so much quicker it's not even close. I don't think the NBA is a concern for 2-3 years.
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As I've said elsewhere, the fact that a player might not be "ready" for the NBA does not mean he will stay in school. Athletes have all kinds of people whispering in their ears, often telling them conflicting information. Combine that with the fact that to be a great athlete, one must have supreme confidence, and it's sometimes too tempting to resist. And then there is whether the athlete likes school, believes he will prefer the college experience to the pros, needs money, etc, etc, etc. Many, many factors - and being "ready" might be one of the least in their eyes.
Henry wasn't "ready" for the NBA, but he never was going to stay here 2 years.
Vander wasn't "ready" for the NBA, but he wanted out of college.
Dozens upon dozens upon dozens of examples are available.
Selfishly, I hope Markus is here for 4 years. At his size, it will be a challenge to play in the NBA. He seems to value education highly. But who knows?
I'm enjoying him very much, am glad I will be able to say the same next season, and we'll see beyond that.
Markus is a super bright kid. He graduated from high school a year early as Valedictorian. My guess he wouldn't be stupid enough to leave before he is a consensus draft pick. Compare that to Vander. The only people who were telling him he was going to get drafted were his knucklehead friends and (I assume) his agent.
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Markus is a super bright kid. He graduated from high school a year early as Valedictorian. My guess he wouldn't be stupid enough to leave before he is a consensus draft pick. Compare that to Vander. The only people who were telling him he was going to get drafted were his knucklehead friends and (I assume) his agent.
Vander did not listen to his mother who wanted him to stay.
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Markus is a super bright kid. He graduated from high school a year early as Valedictorian. My guess he wouldn't be stupid enough to leave before he is a consensus draft pick. Compare that to Vander. The only people who were telling him he was going to get drafted were his knucklehead friends and (I assume) his agent.
Can't have an agent before you gowne
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Can't have an agent before you gowne
You can't sign one, but can you talk to one?
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He can definitely shoot it. While he does have a nice tear-drop shot we have seen a couple times, hopefully he will still be able to attack the rim if the shot doesn't fall. The best part about it is, hes probably already one of the key focuses in the opponent scouting reports, and yet he was able to pour in so many 3s against X.
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He can definitely shoot it. While he does have a nice tear-drop shot we have seen a couple times, hopefully he will still be able to attack the rim if the shot doesn't fall. The best part about it is, hes probably already one of the key focuses in the opponent scouting reports, and yet he was able to pour in so many 3s against X.
At risk of hijacking of a thread...ah what the hell, here goes:
This team needs some towers at the 3 &4 spots who are some semblance of offensive threats (pogo sticks??) and a rim rocker to cover up the defensive deficiencies, so that Rowsey and Howard can play together in short spurts. If Froling can be that at the 5, I love the 1-4 of Howard, Rowsey, Cheatham, Sam with a year and an offseason under their belts. The hope is that allows Cheats to minimize his offensive limitations (in that he can't hit a shot that isn't a corner 3 or lay-up not to his left).
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Markus is a super bright kid. He graduated from high school a year early as Valedictorian. My guess he wouldn't be stupid enough to leave before he is a consensus draft pick.
Good.
Of course, the D-League has been filled with guys who were first-round draft picks but weren't really "ready" for the NBA. Our own Hankster is one of them. That's no shot at Henry; I don't blame him for leaving. But he was a consensus high pick, he ended up being a top-20 pick and he has played about 11 seconds as an NBA rookie. Noah Vonleh out of Indiana a couple years ago is another that leaps to mind - and he was a top-10 pick. Hell, Okafor can't get off the 76ers' bench!
The road will be tougher for Markus because of his size.
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Good.
Of course, the D-League has been filled with guys who were first-round draft picks but weren't really "ready" for the NBA. Our own Hankster is one of them. That's no shot at Henry; I don't blame him for leaving. But he was a consensus high pick, he ended up being a top-20 pick and he has played about 11 seconds as an NBA rookie. Noah Vonleh out of Indiana a couple years ago is another that leaps to mind - and he was a top-10 pick. Hell, Okafor can't get off the 76ers' bench!
The road will be tougher for Markus because of his size.
We've been over this with Hank, though. The difference between going pro last year versus this year is a 1st round grade and a guaranteed contract, unless you factor some SERIOUS progression to his game.
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My understanding is that Howard CAN'T declare for the NBA draft this year because he's too young.
I believe its 19 or 1 year removed from highschool.
Edit its apparently both. Meaning howard is ineligible for the draft.
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I believe its 19 or 1 year removed from highschool.
False
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It's often mentioned Howard is only 17. My 18 year old son (who grew 5 inches from 17 to 18) pointed out Howard could still have a growth spurt. This could make him even better then he already is.
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Makes him more desirable to ND, hey?
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What is it then, JayB? I thought unleash had it right, but mostly because I heard some guys on TV say the same thing today (but, of course they were on ESPN, so that's not much a reference for them).
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We've been over this with Hank, though. The difference between going pro last year versus this year is a 1st round grade and a guaranteed contract, unless you factor some SERIOUS progression to his game.
Again, I don't blame HE for leaving. Lots of money on the table.
He's just an example of a first-round draft pick who wasn't really "ready." Maybe he never would have been really ready even if he had stayed 4 years. We'll see if his game is ever suited for the pros. Best-case scenario for Hank is a Steve Hawes-like career. We'll see.
As for Markus, he can't go pro even if he wanted to. Not old enough.
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It's often mentioned Howard is only 17. My 18 year old son (who grew 5 inches from 17 to 18) pointed out Howard could still have a growth spurt. This could make him even better then he already is.
(http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/andysambergjizz.jpg)
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What is it then, JayB? I thought unleash had it right, but mostly because I heard some guys on TV say the same thing today (but, of course they were on ESPN, so that's not much a reference for them).
For foreigners... must be 19
US kids... 19 in calendar year of draft, AND one year lapse since graduation date or "would have" grad date