MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: vogue65 on February 16, 2017, 08:09:11 AM
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Why not?
With a BOT like we have we are delusional to think we can play with the big boys.
The other night I watched Syracuse play Louisville and W.V. play Kansas and there was NO COMPARISON with what I see with us or even with the so-called Big East.
There is no shame in being with your own kind, the A-10 or conference USA might be where we belong.
A little history, the BOT forced Al McGuire and Buzz out, they think Marquette is Bucknell, Princeton or Northwestern. We will never be Duke or even Duke lite.
Why not play Fordham or St. Bonaventure if the BOT wants to limit recruits to that profile of student athlete?
Villanova plays Division II football, they don't try and play ND, they know their place.
When Marquette played big time basketball was then, this is now.
We don't need a new coach, we need a new BOT or a different league.
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Sometimes there is fishing. Sometimes there is dynamiting the pond. This falls well into the latter.
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Oh sweet Lordy Jesus.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/XG1TkmiJVuyJi/giphy.gif)
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We'll be in the A10 in no time if we're welcoming UCONN to the BE.
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We'll be in the A10 in no time if we're welcoming UCONN to the BE.
Ners, is that you?
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Fire Wojo
Cut the basketball program
Burn down the University
Send the Joan of Arc back to France
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Sometimes there is fishing. Sometimes there is dynamiting the pond. This falls well into the latter.
Sometimes the truth hurts.
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Fire Wojo
Cut the basketball program
Burn down the University
Send the Joan of Arc back to France
I was on campus when they built the JofA, we asked why? Because ND has the golden dome and touchdown Jesus.
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Oh, and it was free, like joining the Big East, seemed like a good idea at the time.
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I forget; did a Big East team win the national championship last year? And did we beat that team when they were ranked number 1 this year?
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Why don't we just drop to Division 2 or Division 3 while we're at it. We're clearly not cut out for Division 1...
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Why do some people enjoy being so miserable? Get a grip, enjoy life. These are college kids throwing a ball in a hoop.
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Should Marquette leave the Big East?
(http://cf.girlsaskguys.com/q1449230/2f93916e-faac-44f7-be61-9b168be247e4.jpg)
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Usually the trolling person at least pretends to make valid points. You just make me giggle.
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I thought this was sarcasm at first then the guy followed up with idiotic comments. (And if it is sarcasm it's a crappy rip off Marcus's post from the other day)
You realize we're still of of the top 20 (15?) programs with the most NCAA appearances, and also most post season appearances. A fall from greatness hurts and causes people to irrationally think like this but there's a whole other level of falling from greatness we could hit (see DePaul or Loyola) and to think it'd be better to preemptively cut our biggest asset because we're average right now is completely idiotic.
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We'll be in the A10 in no time if we're welcoming UCONN to the BE.
Why? You think that adding a legit basketball program will cause the Big East to implode?
Even if it did, most of the BE teams would join MU in the A10 anyway ;)
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My first thought was that you should leave this board and not Marquette leaving the BE. But, your point should be considered if we continue to struggle against BE competition. Perhaps we should compete in the much easier Big Ten.
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I clicked on this thinking that it would be a question about if it would be possible for Marquette to join the ACC as a basketball only member one day. At worst I thought it would be some weird point about UConn joining the Big East. But this, just wow.
I'm curious, I know why people perceived the BOT as "running Buzz out of town." They didn't. But I understand why people think that. I wasn't around in the 70s, in what way did the BOT run Al out of town?
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Benny does not approve of this thread. To even call it amateurish would be an insult to amateurs.
The closet thing to a troll job this would be is if a one-armed troll was sitting on a moldy tree stump masturbating to a picture of one-legged gnome cutting down that same tree.
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Your premise is akin to amputating the lower leg after spraining an ankle. Right now, things are a swollen, painful, and funky colored. It will be ok. No need to amputate.
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Why not?
With a BOT like we have we are delusional to think we can play with the big boys.
The other night I watched Syracuse play Louisville and W.V. play Kansas and there was NO COMPARISON with what I see with us or even with the so-called Big East.
There is no shame in being with your own kind, the A-10 or conference USA might be where we belong.
A little history, the BOT forced Al McGuire and Buzz out, they think Marquette is Bucknell, Princeton or Northwestern. We will never be Duke or even Duke lite.
Why not play Fordham or St. Bonaventure if the BOT wants to limit recruits to that profile of student athlete?
Villanova plays Division II football, they don't try and play ND, they know their place.
When Marquette played big time basketball was then, this is now.
We don't need a new coach, we need a new BOT or a different league.
Did you also get a degree from DePaul and got your hoop programs mixed up?
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Why don't we just drop to Division 2 or Division 3 while we're at it. We're clearly not cut out for Division 1...
Club Sports!
Benny does not approve of this thread. To even call it amateurish would be an insult to amateurs.
The closet thing to a troll job this would be is if a one-armed troll was sitting on a moldy tree stump masturbating to a picture of one-legged gnome cutting down that same tree.
That one armed troll is Wojo. The one legged gnome, is just that, a one legged gnome. He's a man of extravagant tastes.
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Hopefully on the agenda at the next Big East conference meeting, as being 3rd in basketball conference RPI is evidence enough to fold. Maybe curling is a better sport to pick up. Perhaps the Big Ten, SEC, and Pac 12 will also do a sanity check and either move to Division III or fold basketball.
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Was there any rational thought given before making this thread? The conference is so competitive even our bottom feeders can pull off some upsets. There's simply more parity in college basketball now. Not only that but the Big East is still overlooked. We're in a premier conference and playing well. A young team with a young coach going through growing pains.
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Why not?
With a BOT like we have we are delusional to think we can play with the big boys.
The other night I watched Syracuse play Louisville and W.V. play Kansas and there was NO COMPARISON with what I see with us or even with the so-called Big East.
There is no shame in being with your own kind, the A-10 or conference USA might be where we belong.
A little history, the BOT forced Al McGuire and Buzz out, they think Marquette is Bucknell, Princeton or Northwestern. We will never be Duke or even Duke lite.
Why not play Fordham or St. Bonaventure if the BOT wants to limit recruits to that profile of student athlete?
Villanova plays Division II football, they don't try and play ND, they know their place.
When Marquette played big time basketball was then, this is now.
We don't need a new coach, we need a new BOT or a different league.
"What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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Really? THE BOT forced Al out? What's your source?
I think it can be said that Al has had more of a positive impact on Marquette than any other single person. If it weren't for Al, Marquette would just be a regional Catholic university that no one has ever heard of outside of Wisconsin and Chicago, with average reputation at best.
Just because Quentin Quade hated Al doesn't mean everyone did.
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Guys, this is classic Vogue material. You can't even call it trolling because he actually believes what he's saying.....it's insane but he believes it.
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Benny does not approve of this thread. To even call it amateurish would be an insult to amateurs.
Brandx approves of your comment. Despite that, sometimes Brandx thinks brandx and Benny diagree too often.
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Citra or Centennial hops?
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Why not?
With a BOT like we have we are delusional to think we can play with the big boys.
The other night I watched Syracuse play Louisville and W.V. play Kansas and there was NO COMPARISON with what I see with us or even with the so-called Big East.
There is no shame in being with your own kind, the A-10 or conference USA might be where we belong.
A little history, the BOT forced Al McGuire and Buzz out, they think Marquette is Bucknell, Princeton or Northwestern. We will never be Duke or even Duke lite.
Why not play Fordham or St. Bonaventure if the BOT wants to limit recruits to that profile of student athlete?
Villanova plays Division II football, they don't try and play ND, they know their place.
When Marquette played big time basketball was then, this is now.
We don't need a new coach, we need a new BOT or a different league.
Why don't you go for a run. Let's get those endorphins firing.
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Citra or Centennial hops?
Definitely both. However, if given the choice, I'm going to lean to the latter because I still have a pound of Centennial from my 2015 and 2014 harvest sitting in the freezer next to the 2 pounds I harvested this year. Shiite grows like crazy in my backyard, far better than the Cascade and Mt Hood.
BTW - If anyone comes across a Citra rhizome somewhere, perhaps someone living in the Pac NW who is trained in the art of undetected movement, I will pay good money for one.
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What is BOT mean? We are spending big money on our BB program
and really not getting results. Still think the fricken Jesuits screwed us up
with this name changing, the coaches we had after Al. Hank was good,
Rick was just learning, Dukiet played the piano, Dukiet flopped. O'Neil
and Crean found it harder to recruit players for MU. We had Diener and
Wade, but right now we are not big time. Mid-Major at most. Sad. Still
think we should stay in Big East. Our area does not produce good BB
players. Hopefully, Wojo can get into Michigan, Minnesota, and Illinois
and get some gems that can play BE ball. Go MU
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Our area does not produce good BB players.
Sorry but that's simply not true. This is from 2015:
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2015-11-13/college-basketball-these-are-states-most-players-top-25-teams
"From where exactly do the best college basketball teams get their players? We wanted to answer that question, so we took a look at the rosters of all the men's Division I basketball teams ranked in the AP Top 25 preseason poll."
The table...
STATE PLAYERS
1. California 37
2. Indiana 32
3. Texas 25
4. Illinois 20
5. North Carolina 19
6. Ohio 15
7. Georgia 13
7. Wisconsin 13
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I gotta say, this makes every other version of crazy on here look absolutely sane.
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Really? THE BOT forced Al out? What's your source?
I think it can be said that Al has had more of a positive impact on Marquette than any other single person. If it weren't for Al, Marquette would just be a regional Catholic university that no one has ever heard of outside of Wisconsin and Chicago, with average reputation at best.
Just because Quentin Quade hated Al doesn't mean everyone did.
Ah, Prof. Quentin Quade, a blast from the past. Be careful kid you're showing your age. He was just articulating the feeling of much of the faculty and the good old boy Board of Trustees.
Al said that the reason he was retireing was that he could no longer recruit the caliber of player necessary to be competitive at the highest level. All right, he was politically savvy enough not to point a finger at the Board or the faculty directly, one sometimes has to read between the lines.
Nevertheless, thanks for bringing up the controversy of the time and QQ. Was it QJQ?
We had just ended the war and won the national championship so the issue got lost in the exuberance. Then we were off to UAB, Valpo, Cleveland State and other high caliber opponents.
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What is BOT mean? We are spending big money on our BB program
and really not getting results. Still think the fricken Jesuits screwed us up
with this name changing, the coaches we had after Al. Hank was good,
Rick was just learning, Dukiet played the piano, Dukiet flopped. O'Neil
and Crean found it harder to recruit players for MU. We had Diener and
Wade, but right now we are not big time. Mid-Major at most. Sad. Still
think we should stay in Big East. Our area does not produce good BB
players. Hopefully, Wojo can get into Michigan, Minnesota, and Illinois
and get some gems that can play BE ball. Go MU
I don't care that the underlying facts are entirely off-base. This reads like a cross between beat poetry and an Orange One twitter post and I love it.
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I don't care that the underlying facts are entirely off-base. This reads like a cross between beat poetry and an Orange One press conference and I love it.
The media refuses to tell us the truth about how bad MU is.
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Sorry but that's simply not true. This is from 2015:
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2015-11-13/college-basketball-these-are-states-most-players-top-25-teams
"From where exactly do the best college basketball teams get their players? We wanted to answer that question, so we took a look at the rosters of all the men's Division I basketball teams ranked in the AP Top 25 preseason poll."
The table...
STATE PLAYERS
1. California 37
2. Indiana 32
3. Texas 25
4. Illinois 20
5. North Carolina 19
6. Ohio 15
7. Georgia 13
7. Wisconsin 13
Not to mention international players.
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Not to mention international players.
The article actually covered international players:
The countries with most players on Top-25 rosters
COUNTRY PLAYERS
1. Canada 6
2. Australia 4
3. Bahamas 3
4. Belgium 2
4. Germany 2
4. Haiti 2
4. Lithuania 2
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The consistent quality of players from Wisconsin are not that great compared to New York, Illinois, the south etc. I did not say Al was not
a good coach. Met him and liked him. It was after Al. I just want to
know what does BOT mean?
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Board of Trustees
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Board of Trustees
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Correct and they manage to stay under the radar and always have scapegoats lined up.
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Why not?
With a BOT like we have we are delusional to think we can play with the big boys.
The other night I watched Syracuse play Louisville and W.V. play Kansas and there was NO COMPARISON with what I see with us or even with the so-called Big East.
There is no shame in being with your own kind, the A-10 or conference USA might be where we belong.
A little history, the BOT forced Al McGuire and Buzz out, they think Marquette is Bucknell, Princeton or Northwestern. We will never be Duke or even Duke lite.
Why not play Fordham or St. Bonaventure if the BOT wants to limit recruits to that profile of student athlete?
Villanova plays Division II football, they don't try and play ND, they know their place.
When Marquette played big time basketball was then, this is now.
We don't need a new coach, we need a new BOT or a different league.
Yeah, we totally suck. Ask Jay Wright.
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There has been some question about whether Coach Al was squeezed out by the Board of Trustees. This article from 2007 makes no mention of that "fact":
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/sports/ncaabasketball/01mcguire.html
That having been said, Vogue, whom I know from "real life," is generally a man of integrity and usually has some basis for his assertions.
On the other hand, he may just be trying to get a rise out of you blokes, something that I have observed in the real world. Vogue, in that regard, is a bit like Trump, who seems to cleave to the idea that any attention is good attention even if it is bad attention.
I know nothing of this history, but I find it hard to believe that the BOT would squeeze out a coach "who was hired by Marquette in 1964 and compiled a 295-80 record" through 1977, when he won the NCAA, having already won the NIT and having had only one losing season at MU.
But, as I say, Vogue knows what Vogue knows.
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What is BOT mean? We are spending big money on our BB program
and really not getting results. Still think the fricken Jesuits screwed us up
with this name changing, the coaches we had after Al. Hank was good,
Rick was just learning, Dukiet played the piano, Dukiet flopped. O'Neil
and Crean found it harder to recruit players for MU. We had Diener and
Wade, but right now we are not big time. Mid-Major at most. Sad. Still
think we should stay in Big East. Our area does not produce good BB
players. Hopefully, Wojo can get into Michigan, Minnesota, and Illinois
and get some gems that can play BE ball. Go MU
Really? You have to go all the way back to Diener and Wade for the last quality locals? Not even a Novak or McNeal mention?
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What local players? Marquette is a national university, probably is or should be an international university and the team should represent that reality. Sometimes I think we are way too provincial.
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Ah, Prof. Quentin Quade, a blast from the past. Be careful kid you're showing your age. He was just articulating the feeling of much of the faculty and the good old boy Board of Trustees.
Al said that the reason he was retireing was that he could no longer recruit the caliber of player necessary to be competitive at the highest level. All right, he was politically savvy enough not to point a finger at the Board or the faculty directly, one sometimes has to read between the lines.
Nevertheless, thanks for bringing up the controversy of the time and QQ. Was it QJQ?
We had just ended the war and won the national championship so the issue got lost in the exuberance. Then we were off to UAB, Valpo, Cleveland State and other high caliber opponents.
I was gonna give you credit for your opening post, pulling an MU82 Lite and just shunning teal. I really was. Now, I'm worried about you.
Yeah, let's leave the Big East and go Horizon. It's all we're good for. Maybe quit hoops all together and put all the $$$ into hockey.
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(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxekSpeKa-MJGst-AHG3XlgZsWdI1lIanvh-shRaEToJ23TIEF9gSnIv3_)
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I was gonna give you credit for your opening post, pulling an MU82 Lite and just shunning teal. I really was. Now, I'm worried about you.
Yeah, let's leave the Big East and go Horizon. It's all we're good for. Maybe quit hoops all together and put all the $$$ into hockey.
Field hockey or ice? Thanks for your concern, I think I'll make it weather MU goes uptown or downtown. Having been a bartender for a couple of years, across the street from the library, back in my day, I know that the students know a lot more about what is really going on than the coaches, BOT or faculty. Ultimatly the students make a university and not the monument buildings or the basketball league.
On second thought, a good Div. I hockey team might not be such a bad idea.
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Field hockey or ice? Thanks for your concern, I think I'll make it weather MU goes uptown or downtown. Having been a bartender for a couple of years, across the street from the library, back in my day, I know that the students know a lot more about what is really going on than the coaches, BOT or faculty. Ultimatly the students make a university and not the monument buildings or the basketball league.
I don't know what this gibberish means ... and I'm not even talking about the numerous misspellings.
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Who tinks up dis chit, ai na?
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Who tinks up dis chit, ai na?
You got dat right. You know it's bad when your chit makes more sense den his chit!
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There has been some question about whether Coach Al was squeezed out by the Board of Trustees. This article from 2007 makes no mention of that "fact":
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/sports/ncaabasketball/01mcguire.html
That having been said, Vogue, whom I know from "real life," is generally a man of integrity and usually has some basis for his assertions.
On the other hand, he may just be trying to get a rise out of you blokes, something that I have observed in the real world. Vogue, in that regard, seems to cleave to the idea that any attention is good attention even if it is bad attention.
I know nothing of this history, but I find it hard to believe that the BOT would squeeze out a coach "who was hired by Marquette in 1964 and compiled a 295-80 record" through 1977, when he won the NCAA, having already won the NIT and having had only one losing season at MU.
But, as I say, Vogue knows what Vogue knows.
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I don't know what this gibberish means ... and I'm not even talking about the numerous misspellings.
My apology, sorry, lack of a good Jesuit High School education and from an underprivileged background. At least the Jesuits let me work in their refectory in the basement of Johnson Hall (I think) where I learned about humility, honesty and service. They never gave me a spelling lesson, just an opportunity at life. Do you understand that gibberish?
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My apology, sorry, lack of a good Jesuit High School education and from an underprivileged background. At least the Jesuits let me work in their refectory in the basement of Johnson Hall (I think) where I learned about humility, honesty and service. They never gave me a spelling lesson, just an opportunity at life. Do you understand that gibberish?
So you're saying you don't know how to spell... are you sure you deserve that degree? Because I know loads of underprivileged youth that couldn't dream of college, yet they still know how to spell.
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So you're saying you don't know how to spell... are you sure you deserve that degree? Because I know loads of underprivileged youth that couldn't dream of college, yet they still know how to spell.
Whatever you say.
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MU would be undefeated as they wouldn't be on national tv.
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MU would be undefeated as they wouldn't be on national tv.
Are you sure?
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Are you sure?
Source: MU Avenue
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At Vogue's house, about to watch the Xavier game. I think Golden Eagles favored by 4.5. He says they'll lose by 26. A blowout will support his Marquexit argument, so he supposes. Go Warriors!
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We'll be in the A10 in no time if we're welcoming UCONN to the BE.
(http://www.cfo-coach.com/wp-content/uploads/vectorstock_739052-300x209.jpg)
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Yeah, let's leave the Big East and go Horizon. It's all we're good for. Maybe quit hoops all together and put all the $$$ into hockey.
Our center is penalty box prone and our defensemen can't stay in from of their men. Also, Wojo's seat is icy cold.
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Our center is penalty box prone and our defensemen can't stay in from of their men. Also, Wojo's seat is icy cold.
One might even call it a Cool Throne.
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At Vogue's house, about to watch the Xavier game. I think Golden Eagles favored by 4.5. He says they'll lose by 26. A blowout will support his Marquexit argument, so he supposes. Go Warriors!
He was close, if by lose, he meant win.
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I'm just impressed that the BOT hasn't changed in 39 years, they must have found the fountain of youth. I mean if the same people that forced out Al also forced out Buzz that is some impressive longevity.
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Sometimes the truth hurts.
Your head must hurt.
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Fire Wojo
Cut the basketball program
Burn down the University
Send the Joan of Arc back to France
Great response - and it was made to the dumbest post in the history of the scoop.
I agree the suggestion to leave the big east ranks somewhere in the "worst insane proposals" with the four you mention, but perhaps we could add that we should not have recruited Deiner, Wade or Novak because they took away from the style of basketball we want at MU.
$10 million in free advertising in the largest media market, plus being in the only conference in history to give a check for several million each year for a school FOR BASKETBALL plus virtually every game on national tv, and obviously missed the fact that the conference won the national title last year, giving MU fans the chance to see mu beat a no. 1 team for the first time in history in MKE.
I realize even acknowledging this post is silly, but an excuse to be thankful for the incredible luck of being part of the big east.
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Great response - and it was made to the dumbest post in the history of the scoop.
I agree the suggestion to leave the big east ranks somewhere in the "worst insane proposals" with the four you mention, but perhaps we could add that we should not have recruited Deiner, Wade or Novak because they took away from the style of basketball we want at MU.
$10 million in free advertising in the largest media market, plus being in the only conference in history to give a check for several million each year for a school FOR BASKETBALL plus virtually every game on national tv, and obviously missed the fact that the conference won the national title last year, giving MU fans the chance to see mu beat a no. 1 team for the first time in history in MKE.
I realize even acknowledging this post is silly, but an excuse to be thankful for the incredible luck of being part of the big east.
Love the national TV exposure, love the "free" advertising, love the storming of the court, and especially love the $$$$$.
Whats not to love?
Does playing in Providence, Washington, Philadelphia, Newark, Omaha and Queens help our recruiting of quality students?
Does Marquette have any additional rivalries after participating in the conference?
Will the league change the style of officiating to help our style of play?
Will Fox Sports renew the windfall contract? Are they making out, we are, no question, are they?
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Why not?
With a BOT like we have we are delusional to think we can play with the big boys.
The other night I watched Syracuse play Louisville and W.V. play Kansas and there was NO COMPARISON with what I see with us or even with the so-called Big East.
There is no shame in being with your own kind, the A-10 or conference USA might be where we belong.
A little history, the BOT forced Al McGuire and Buzz out, they think Marquette is Bucknell, Princeton or Northwestern. We will never be Duke or even Duke lite.
Why not play Fordham or St. Bonaventure if the BOT wants to limit recruits to that profile of student athlete?
Villanova plays Division II football, they don't try and play ND, they know their place.
When Marquette played big time basketball was then, this is now.
We don't need a new coach, we need a new BOT or a different league.
Well then where does DePaul Go?
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Well then where does DePaul Go?
Not our problem.
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Not our problem.
We Go, They Stay.
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We Go, They Stay.
Hay, we are not joined at the hip. We have different goals and objectives. Who knows what they are up to.
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Wee ain't goin' no wear just 'cuz some no nothin' Pooper Scooper decides ta fart out a thought, ai na?
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Wee ain't goin' no wear just 'cuz some no nothin' Pooper Scooper decides ta fart out a thought, ai na?
O.K., then lets ask where is the Big East going or where is FOX SPORTS going? Nothing too strategic, just looking a few years out. Will it be status quo forever? You know the "drill", dental benefits, electric tooth brushes, Invisaline, etc..
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O.K., then lets ask where is the Big East going or where is FOX SPORTS going? Nothing too strategic, just looking a few years out. Will it be status quo forever? You know the "drill", dental benefits, electric tooth brushes, Invisaline, etc..
Who knows what the future brings? Who cares what it is like ten years from now? Marquette should think smartly regarding the end of the Fox contract and plan accordingly, but other than that, why does any of your ramblings matter?
The Big East is the best non-football conference for men's basketball. It is literally the best place for Marquette to be a member. If that changes ten years from now, Marquette can go elsewhere.
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Who knows what the future brings? Who cares what it is like ten years from now? Marquette should think smartly regarding the end of the Fox contract and plan accordingly, but other than that, why does any of your ramblings matter?
The Big East is the best non-football conference for men's basketball. It is literally the best place for Marquette to be a member. If that changes ten years from now, Marquette can go elsewhere.
Are we talking about 10 years out?
Sounds like a good plan to me, real leadership, let FOX drive the university. No need to "rant", we have a plan.
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Are we talking about 10 years out?
Sounds like a good plan to me, real leadership, let FOX drive the university. No need to "rant", we have a plan.
WTF are you even talking about?
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He was close, if by lose, he meant win.
Just so you know, he read this comment as saying he got it right and I got it wrong. Too many scotches at the Vogue. He predicted MU would be crushed by X. HE got it backwards not I.
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WTF are you even talking about?
About synchronicity, good night, love you.
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Mods, do Vogue and the NonJesuit post from the same computer?
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Mods, better, yet, nuke this thread for the sake of 65's dignity.
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Scoop is getting even more weird.
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Keep scoop weird! FWIW, ners is doing his jj thing over on scout and thinks scoop is nothing but clowns. I feel better about me already.
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vogue, are you OK? Seriously.
I enjoyed your quirky take on politics on that late, not-especially-great board, even if I often disagreed. But I'm not even sure what you're saying on half your posts here.
Worried about you, man.
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Mods, do Vogue and the NonJesuit post from the same computer?
No, he is one of my only friends, a know it all lawyer, and of all things a Maryland fan.
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vogue, are you OK? Seriously.
I enjoyed your quirky take on politics on that late, not-especially-great board, even if I often disagreed. But I'm not even sure what you're saying on half your posts here.
Worried about you, man.
You are probably right, thinking outside box can be very painful. For example, while I hate on ND, must say that they crafted some hell of a deal. Their unique TV deal, and a place within a conference for basketball as a "part time" member.
The future may be pay for view and a return of the independent. The future may already be upon us.
In my job I was always thinking down the road 20 or 30 years, that is why this thread causes so much angst for some.
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You are probably right, thinking outside box can be very painful. For rxample, while I hate on ND, must say that they crafted out some hell of a deal. Their unique TV deal, and a place within a conference for basketball as a "part time" member.
The future may be pay for view and a return of the independent. The future may already be upon us.
In my job I was always thinking down the road 20 or 30 years, that is why this thread causes so much angst for some.
The pay per view concept is interesting. It would certainly allow schools to control their own destiny. Not sure I like it though as it would make casual fans less likely to be scrolling through the channels and watch.
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In my very long and very interesting life I once worked with a college ref. in his day job. I attended some of his games and it was amazing how we would both see two separate games. He would be looking at the base line while I saw a player hit another player, or he was watching the clock while I'm watching the shooter.
My point, officiating is done differently in different leagues and on different nights. It is fair, but different.
The question at hand is, is Marquette willing to play competitively in a league which promotes a style of play that requires a specific type of player?
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What league would we go to that is better than the BE?
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You are probably right, thinking outside box can be very painful. For example, while I hate on ND, must say that they crafted some hell of a deal. Their unique TV deal, and a place within a conference for basketball as a "part time" member.
The future may be pay for view and a return of the independent. The future may already be upon us.
In my job I was always thinking down the road 20 or 30 years, that is why this thread causes so much angst for some.
This is because ND has a football program with a huge fan base all over the country not really about basketball. Can't live as an independent in basketball.
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In my very long and very interesting life I once worked with a college ref. in his day job. I attended some of his games and it was amazing how we would both see two separate games. He would be looking at the base line while I saw a player hit another player, or he was watching the clock while I'm watching the shooter.
My point, officiating is done differently in different leagues and on different nights. It is fair, but different.
The question at hand is, is Marquette willing to play competitively in a league which promotes a style of play that requires a specific type of player?
Son is a ref (high school, but has ref at least 3 nba pics including Barnes) what you describe is because depending on the ref and his position on the court his responsibilities vary that is why your friend was watching just specific areas. Those were his responsibilities they do not watch the whole court off course they might see something that they could call outside thier determined area. That is why you see them come together to over rule a call or make sure they saw the same thing. And of course different ref crews call games differently some allow more contact etc. just different emphasis and human nature.
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What league would we go to that is better than the BE?
I don't have an answer. As I say, what goes around comes around, look at the ND solution, or pay for view independent teams. As an independent we could play Gonzaga, Virginia Tec., W.V., and even have some real rivalry games. Now we have made for T.V., made for and by FOX rivalries.
Or a league that officiated more to our style of play, with our style of player.
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I don't have an answer. As I say, what goes around comes around, look at the ND solution, or pay for view independent teams. As an independent we could play Gonzaga, Virginia Tec., W.V., and even have some real rivalry games. Now we have made for T.V., made for and by FOX rivalries.
Or a league that officiated more to our style of play, with our style of player.
[/b] what league would this be
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I don't have an answer. As I say, what goes around comes around, look at the ND solution, or pay for view independent teams. As an independent we could play Gonzaga, Virginia Tec., W.V., and even have some real rivalry games. Now we have made for T.V., made for and by FOX rivalries.
Or a league that officiated more to our style of play, with our style of player.
We could do that in non conference, but who are we going to play once conference season starts? Find teams with buys and hope 8 of them want to come to Milwaukee?
I think as the Big East grows, we will develop some more rivalries. We've had good games with Butler. We developed a rivalry with Pittsburgh in the old Big East, so it can happen again.
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You are probably right, thinking outside box can be very painful. For example, while I hate on ND, must say that they crafted some hell of a deal. Their unique TV deal, and a place within a conference for basketball as a "part time" member.
The future may be pay for view and a return of the independent. The future may already be upon us.
In my job I was always thinking down the road 20 or 30 years, that is why this thread causes so much angst for some.
1. If 20 to 30 years from now, it would make sense for Marquette to return to being an independent, they can do so.
2. That future most definitely isn't now.
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The days of being able to thrive as an independent are over. Al got to go everywhere and play everyone (except UCLA). But that was before cable, conference tournaments, a 68 team tournament.
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1. If 20 to 30 years from now, it would make sense for Marquette to return to being an independent, they can do so.
2. That future most definitely isn't now.
We probably agree more than we disagree. The reality is that there is an acceleration of change going on. Everything has changed, MU, BE, FOX, UCON, WV, etc.
What probably set me off was the St. John's game in the city. When we go east; Seton Hall, Georgetown, St. John's, Providence, Vilanova we are playing in a different world, a different game.
Unfortunately I don't have great expectations about the BE tournament, and that is very unfortunate.
I am not saying that we are not competitive, I am saying that we may not be competitive in this conference in the east which is 5 games plus the tournament. Perhaps we are competitive in Omaha, Milwaukee, Chicago and Indianapolis.
Therefore, I question either the conference or the basketball strategy. Prove me wrong, I would be very happy to be wrong.
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Does playing in Providence, Washington, Philadelphia, Newark, Omaha and Queens help our recruiting of quality students?
Are you talking basketball or overall? From a basketball perspective, it clearly isn't hurting it. On the whole, the best way to attract quality students through the basketball program is simply having success. That's why we saw such a boom in applications after 2003. There is no other comparable conference that would give us the exposure potential we have here.
Does Marquette have any additional rivalries after participating in the conference?
Yes. We have rivalries with Xavier, Butler, and Creighton. While we have lost ND on the schedule, that was unavoidable and their choice. Leaving the Big East would not change that.
Will the league change the style of officiating to help our style of play?
You don't pick a league based on officiating, you adjust your recruiting and play style to that. That's why we have 3 players coming in that are 6'9"+ coming in next year.
Let's not forget, officiating can change from half-to-half in game. The Duke/Wisconsin championship game largely turned on Duke's ability to adjust to the referees while Wisconsin did not. When push comes to shove in March, it's not the referees you have dealt with all year that will determine your success, but your ability to adjust to the referees you are assigned. Getting the highest caliber of referee will be easiest within the construct of a strong conference. There is no stronger conference that would permit us admission, so if refereeing is the argument, this is the only conference to be in.
Will Fox Sports renew the windfall contract? Are they making out, we are, no question, are they?
Who knows? Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but we're locked in for years to come. The Big East will have the chance to explore options and pursue lucrative contracts when that option presents itself. Regardless, our basketball-only conference pays more than AAC teams get for all sports, and far more than any other non-football league.
The notion of going independent or joining another league are simply ludicrous. Marquette does not have the fanbase of a Notre Dame nor the regional power of a large state school. We would struggle to put together a schedule that came close to being as competitive as what we have now. We would need to fill 18 spots with top-100 opponents. Good luck with that. And any other league would be a massive step down.
In the past 3-1/2 years, the Big East has established itself as one of the best conferences in the country. It is the only league that garners respect on par with the big football conferences. There is no easier route to success than by climbing the ranks in this conference. Why would we go to the A-10, the MVC, or the Horizon when we've seen Xavier, Creighton, and Butler flee from there to get where we are today and flourish in the process? Why would we go independent when there are literally no current independent teams in the entire sport and haven't been since NJIT in 2015?
How is this even a question? I think the only way we should consider this is if we "leave" the "Big East" and take Villanova, Georgetown, Providence, Butler, Xavier, Creighton, St. John's, and Seton Hall with us, while also taking the television contract rights, the Big East name, and the rights to MSG.
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We probably agree more than we disagree. The reality is that there is an acceleration of change going on. Everything has changed, MU, BE, FOX, UCON, WV, etc.
What probably set me off was the St. John's game in the city. When we go east; Seton Hall, Georgetown, St. John's, Providence, Vilanova we are playing in a different world, a different game.
Unfortunately I don't have great expectations about the BE tournament, and that is very unfortunate.
I am not saying that we are not competitive, I am saying that we may not be competitive in this conference in the east which is 5 games plus the tournament. Perhaps we are competitive in Omaha, Milwaukee, Chicago and Indianapolis.
Therefore, I question either the conference or the basketball strategy. Prove me wrong, I would be very happy to be wrong.
The Big East Conference is responsible for picking the referees for each conference game. I doubt you will see one set of referees who predominantly are assigned to the east coast and another set that are primarily assigned to the midwest. You are not really on solid ground here.
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Are you talking basketball or overall? From a basketball perspective, it clearly isn't hurting it. On the whole, the best way to attract quality students through the basketball program is simply having success. That's why we saw such a boom in applications after 2003. There is no other comparable conference that would give us the exposure potential we have here.
Yes. We have rivalries with Xavier, Butler, and Creighton. While we have lost ND on the schedule, that was unavoidable and their choice. Leaving the Big East would not change that.
You don't pick a league based on officiating, you adjust your recruiting and play style to that. That's why we have 3 players coming in that are 6'9"+ coming in next year.
Let's not forget, officiating can change from half-to-half in game. The Duke/Wisconsin championship game largely turned on Duke's ability to adjust to the referees while Wisconsin did not. When push comes to shove in March, it's not the referees you have dealt with all year that will determine your success, but your ability to adjust to the referees you are assigned. Getting the highest caliber of referee will be easiest within the construct of a strong conference. There is no stronger conference that would permit us admission, so if refereeing is the argument, this is the only conference to be in.
Who knows? Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but we're locked in for years to come. The Big East will have the chance to explore options and pursue lucrative contracts when that option presents itself. Regardless, our basketball-only conference pays more than AAC teams get for all sports, and far more than any other non-football league.
The notion of going independent or joining another league are simply ludicrous. Marquette does not have the fanbase of a Notre Dame nor the regional power of a large state school. We would struggle to put together a schedule that came close to being as competitive as what we have now. We would need to fill 18 spots with top-100 opponents. Good luck with that. And any other league would be a massive step down.
In the past 3-1/2 years, the Big East has established itself as one of the best conferences in the country. It is the only league that garners respect on par with the big football conferences. There is no easier route to success than by climbing the ranks in this conference. Why would we go to the A-10, the MVC, or the Horizon when we've seen Xavier, Creighton, and Butler flee from there to get where we are today and flourish in the process? Why would we go independent when there are literally no current independent teams in the entire sport and haven't been since NJIT in 2015?
How is this even a question? I think the only way we should consider this is if we "leave" the "Big East" and take Villanova, Georgetown, Providence, Butler, Xavier, Creighton, St. John's, and Seton Hall with us, while also taking the television contract rights, the Big East name, and the rights to MSG.
Have to run, but what is our winning percentage in MSG or in the east for that matter? Are we talking $$$ or basketball?
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The answer is: No.
I can't believe this ridiculous topic has run for 5 pages.
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Have to run, but what is our winning percentage in MSG or in the east for that matter? Are we talking $$$ or basketball?
Our winning percentage at Madison Square Garden since joining the Big East is 0.429 (12-16). That is hampered by our current 4 game MSG losing streak (Xavier in the BET, Michigan and Pitt in the 2K Classic, St. John's last month). We are also 2-0 at Carnasecca in that time period.
In the east? I'm not sure what you mean by that. Like road games at Providence, Georgetown, Villanova? I'm sure we're no worse than most high-major teams in road games wherever they are played. Our total league record is 119-89. In that time, we have only two losing seasons (the last two) and have had winning records in 7 of 11 completed seasons.
I'm talking both. We won't make more money by leaving the Big East. We won't play better basketball by leaving the Big East. Leaving this league to improve our station would be the equivalent to a marathoner trying to become a better runner by cutting off both his legs at the hip.
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The answer is: No.
I can't believe this ridiculous topic has run for 5 pages.
I can't believe Vogue hasn't found a way to blame Boeing for Marquette's performance in MSG yet.
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I am not saying that we are not competitive, I am saying that we may not be competitive in this conference in the east which is 5 games plus the tournament. Perhaps we are competitive in Omaha, Milwaukee, Chicago and Indianapolis.
OK, fine. I'll bite. Your hypothesis is not just off-base, it is objectively wrong.
This is Marquette's away (and neutral-site) conference record against the five current "I-95" Big East schools since joining the Big East.
@ Georgetown: 2-9
@ Providence: 5-3
@ Seton Hall: 8-3
@ St. John's: 8-3
@Villanova: 3-11 (0-5 since Conference Reformation. No shame in losing to the #1 team in the league in their own gym)
Current BE Subtotal: 26-29 (.472)
Just for good measure, I'll also throw in MU's away/neutral record against departed Big East members Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, Pitt, and West Virginia, each of whom is arguably an "Eastern" team. I'll even leave out South Florida...just to help YOUR argument (MU went 3-1 at USF as Big East member).
@Connecticut: 4-1
@Pitt: 2-5
@Rutgers: 2-1
@Syracuse: 1-4 (Inc. 2 NCAA Tournament games in Cleveland and Washington)
@West Virginia: 2-3
Ex-BE Subtotal: 11-14 (.440)
BE East Coast Total: 37-43 (.463)
Now, compare that to MU's away/neutral Big East record against "Midwestern" Big East teams.
@Butler: 0-4
@Cincinnati:2-2
@Creighton: 2-2
@DePaul: 6-3
@Louisville: 1-7
@Notre Dame: 3-5
@Xavier: 0-3
BE Midwest Total: 14-26 (.350)
In short, in away/neutral Big East games against "East Coast" opposition, MU actually plays BETTER (.472 vs. current members, .440 vs. Ex-Members, .463 total) than it does against "Midwestern" Big East teams (.350 vs. Current and former members).
Thus, if anything, MU "may be competitive out east, but when they get to cities like Indianapolis and Cincinnati and Louisville, they are in a different world."
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Lol, well done Chiclets.
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Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup right now:
(http://www.accelerator3359.com/Wrestling/pictures/finishers/savageelbowanimated.gif)
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The answer is: No.
I can't believe this ridiculous topic has run for 5 pages.
And it was inspired by watching a Syracuse game. The same Syracuse team that is 0-2 against the bottom half of the Big East this year, including a 33-point bludgeoning by the Johnnies.
So he did get the "no comparison" part right in a sense.
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Don't be fooled. This thread has nothing to do with leaving the Big East. This is simply another thread claiming that the BOT has issued some mandate that we can no longer recruit a certain kind of player and can only go after choir boys with good grades. There is some truth to this. Marquette would no longer allow Todd Mayo to come here. I don't think that's a bad thing. But our academic standards are no different than other Big East institution. We lack physicality inside this year. Wojo recognizes this and that's why Cain, John, and Eke are on their way next season. It has nothing to do with these made up shackles that the BOT has supposedly put on recruiting.
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Don't be fooled. This thread has nothing to do with leaving the Big East. This is simply another thread claiming that the BOT has issued some mandate that we can no longer recruit a certain kind of player and can only go after choir boys with good grades. There is some truth to this. Marquette would no longer allow Todd Mayo to come here. I don't think that's a bad thing. But our academic standards are no different than other Big East institution. We lack physicality inside this year. Wojo recognizes this and that's why Cain, John, and Eke are on their way next season. It has nothing to do with this made shackles that the BOT has supposedly put on recruiting.
But...but....but I read it on the other board with #donedeal telling me himself.
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Why not?
With a BOT like we have we are delusional to think we can play with the big boys.
The other night I watched Syracuse play Louisville and W.V. play Kansas and there was NO COMPARISON with what I see with us or even with the so-called Big East.
There is no shame in being with your own kind, the A-10 or conference USA might be where we belong.
A little history, the BOT forced Al McGuire and Buzz out, they think Marquette is Bucknell, Princeton or Northwestern. We will never be Duke or even Duke lite.
Why not play Fordham or St. Bonaventure if the BOT wants to limit recruits to that profile of student athlete?
Villanova plays Division II football, they don't try and play ND, they know their place.
When Marquette played big time basketball was then, this is now.
We don't need a new coach, we need a new BOT or a different league.
This is the kind of idiocy that keeps me from frequenting this board anymore. Doesn't surprise me coming from this poster.
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What is it with scoop and giving dumb threads the most life?
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What? Mayo was at da X game, hey?
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You are probably right, thinking outside box can be very painful. For example, while I hate on ND, must say that they crafted some hell of a deal. Their unique TV deal, and a place within a conference for basketball as a "part time" member.
The future may be pay for view and a return of the independent. The future may already be upon us.
In my job I was always thinking down the road 20 or 30 years, that is why this thread causes so much angst for some.
No pain or angst for me. Not one owie. Just wondering what's rattlin' around in that head of yours. Still haven't figured it out.
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OK, fine. I'll bite. Your hypothesis is not just off-base, it is objectively wrong.
This is Marquette's away (and neutral-site) conference record against the five current "I-95" Big East schools since joining the Big East.
@ Georgetown: 2-9
@ Providence: 5-3
@ Seton Hall: 8-3
@ St. John's: 8-3
@Villanova: 3-11 (0-5 since Conference Reformation. No shame in losing to the #1 team in the league in their own gym)
Current BE Subtotal: 26-29 (.472)
Just for good measure, I'll also throw in MU's away/neutral record against departed Big East members Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, Pitt, and West Virginia, each of whom is arguably an "Eastern" team. I'll even leave out South Florida...just to help YOUR argument (MU went 3-1 at USF as Big East member).
@Connecticut: 4-1
@Pitt: 2-5
@Rutgers: 2-1
@Syracuse: 1-4 (Inc. 2 NCAA Tournament games in Cleveland and Washington)
@West Virginia: 2-3
Ex-BE Subtotal: 11-14 (.440)
BE East Coast Total: 37-43 (.463)
Now, compare that to MU's away/neutral Big East record against "Midwestern" Big East teams.
@Butler: 0-4
@Cincinnati:2-2
@Creighton: 2-2
@DePaul: 6-3
@Louisville: 1-7
@Notre Dame: 3-5
@Xavier: 0-3
BE Midwest Total: 14-26 (.350)
In short, in away/neutral Big East games against "East Coast" opposition, MU actually plays BETTER (.472 vs. current members, .440 vs. Ex-Members, .463 total) than it does against "Midwestern" Big East teams (.350 vs. Current and former members).
Thus, if anything, MU "may be competitive out east, but when they get to cities like Indianapolis and Cincinnati and Louisville, they are in a different world."
Please redo your analysis and exclude WV, ND, Louisville, and Cincinnati, let's deal with the current world. I'm serious, please make a contribution and don't massage the numbers. What does the picture look like, plain and simple, the east-coast 5 vs. the mid-west 5.
Seems to me, without analysis, that when we play on the coast we are not competitive, is it my imagination or bias?
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It is your imagination .
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Please redo your analysis and exclude WV, ND, Louisville, and Cincinnati, let's deal with the current world. I'm serious, please make a contribution and don't massage the numbers. What does the picture look like, plain and simple, the east-coast 5 vs. the mid-west 5.
Seems to me, without analysis, that when we play on the coast we are not competitive, is it my imagination or bias?
Did you read his first paragraph? We are 26-29 on the road at the current East Coast 5. We are 8-12 on the road at the current Midwest 4.
You have a vivid imagination.
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Don't be fooled. This thread has nothing to do with leaving the Big East. This is simply another thread claiming that the BOT has issued some mandate that we can no longer recruit a certain kind of player and can only go after choir boys with good grades. There is some truth to this. Marquette would no longer allow Todd Mayo to come here. I don't think that's a bad thing. But our academic standards are no different than other Big East institution. We lack physicality inside this year. Wojo recognizes this and that's why Cain, John, and Eke are on their way next season. It has nothing to do with these made up shackles that the BOT has supposedly put on recruiting.
We are concentrating in recruits with good necks.
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Please redo your analysis and exclude WV, ND, Louisville, and Cincinnati, let's deal with the current world. I'm serious, please make a contribution and don't massage the numbers. What does the picture look like, plain and simple, the east-coast 5 vs. the mid-west 5.
Seems to me, without analysis, that when we play on the coast we are not competitive, is it my imagination or bias?
The idea that Marquette plays worse on the East Coast is wholly without merit, or statistical support, and exists only in your own imagination. This is Marquette's away (and neutral-site) conference record against the five current "I-95" Big East schools since joining the Big East.
@ Georgetown: 2-9
@ Providence: 5-3
@ Seton Hall: 8-3
@ St. John's: 8-3
@Villanova: 3-11 (0-5 since Conference Reformation. No shame in losing to the #1 team in the league in their own gym)
Current BE East Coast Subtotal: 26-29 (.472)
Now, compare that to MU's away/neutral Big East record against the four other current "Midwestern" Big East teams.
@Butler: 0-4
@Creighton: 2-2
@DePaul: 6-3
@Xavier: 0-3
Current BE Midwest Total: 8-10 (.444)
But I'm glad to hear that you apparently survived the Bowling Green Massacre.
(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder958/66489958.jpg)
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The idea that Marquette plays worse on the East Coast is wholly without merit, or statistical support, and exists only in your own imagination. This is Marquette's away (and neutral-site) conference record against the five current "I-95" Big East schools since joining the Big East.
@ Georgetown: 2-9
@ Providence: 5-3
@ Seton Hall: 8-3
@ St. John's: 8-3
@Villanova: 3-11 (0-5 since Conference Reformation. No shame in losing to the #1 team in the league in their own gym)
Current BE East Coast Subtotal: 26-29 (.472)
Now, compare that to MU's away/neutral Big East record against the four other current "Midwestern" Big East teams.
@Butler: 0-4
@Creighton: 2-2
@DePaul: 6-3
@Xavier: 0-3
Current BE Midwest Total: 8-10 (.444)
But I'm glad to hear that you apparently survived the Bowling Green Massacre.
(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder958/66489958.jpg)
Thank you, looks like we should stay in the Big East and win the BE tournament this year.
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Mods, do Vogue and the NonJesuit post from the same computer?
The suggestion that we are the same person deeply offends me. In real life we have been said to be sidekicks, but I actually know how to use a computer and you folks should be impressed by the near miracle that has allowed Vogue to use a tablet to post here. He was even able to pull the homer radio broadcast of the Xavier game up on his tablet while the prior game was finishing up on TV this past Saturday. He had his official sweatshirt on but no Pom poms.
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I can't believe Vogue hasn't found a way to blame Boeing for Marquette's performance in MSG yet.
I'm working on it, trying to fit jet lag into the metrics, and Joe is correct, I don't know how to use teal.
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We are concentrating in recruits with good necks.
I thought the BOT prohibited MU from recruiting anyone with a neck size over a certain diameter?
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And it was inspired by watching a Syracuse game. The same Syracuse team that is 0-2 against the bottom half of the Big East this year, including a 33-point bludgeoning by the Johnnies.
So he did get the "no comparison" part right in a sense.
Orange just beat Blue Devils. Vogue65 rules!