MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: tower912 on February 05, 2017, 06:41:36 PM
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Atlanta is faster on both sides of the ball so far. Feels like Detroit against any good team so far.
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No YAC for NE so far. It feels like NE is running g the ball just to keep Brady from getting hit for a play.
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Old fashioned ass kicking so far.
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Happy to see the NFC kick some Pat @ss - so far my wife has only cried during 2 commercials.
also love John Malkovich
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Ellie Gonsalves looked super hot, ai na?
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Please win this game on a free kick.
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NE wins toss. Doubt Atlanta will see the ball again....
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Punt was deep enough to prevent it.
The Falcons could not have drawn up a way to mess this up any worse. You could've legitimately taken 3 knees after the Jones catch on the sidelines and kicked a FG and won the Super Bowl. Absurd.
Not that it ended up mattering, but why would they challenge the Edelman catch with 2:03 left? Clock is running. Let it get to the 2 minute warning and challenge it. Could've given the Patriots a free timeout.
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Why didn't the Pats free kick?
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Punt was deep enough to prevent it.
The Falcons could not have drawn up a way to mess this up any worse. You could've legitimately taken 3 knees after the Jones catch on the sidelines and kicked a FG and won the Super Bowl. Absurd.
Not that it ended up mattering, but why would they challenge the Edelman catch with 2:03 left? Clock is running. Let it get to the 2 minute warning and challenge it. Could've given the Patriots a free timeout.
Exactly. Blame should be on Kyle Shanahan for passing after that. Run the ball,therefore no sack, therefore no hold call and clock is running. Just terrible and I can't imagine being a Falcons fan right now.
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Atlanta's defense is gassed. Time of possession is ridiculous.
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Another play or two, and this game is over....
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A Bucky fooked 'em, hey?
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Oh, Roger..... give that trophy to Kraft, Belichik, and Brady. Bwahahaha
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Brady = GOAT.
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The Falcons could not have drawn up a way to mess this up any worse. You could've legitimately taken 3 knees after the Jones catch on the sidelines and kicked a FG and won the Super Bowl. Absurd.
My thoughts exactly.
Twice now the Pats have won SBs because the opponent is too dumb to run the ball.
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Brady = GOAT.
Hard to argue. Atlanta gave him a chance with some stupid play calling, but he still had to get it done...again.
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Holy crap. Is that the biggest collapse in sports history?
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Holy crap. Is that the biggest collapse in sports history?
I agree with most of the comments here.
Abstract question…
What percentage of this was a New England come back and what percentage of this was an Atlanta collapse?
I'd say 90% Atlanta collapse
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I have never seen a coaching decision that was undefendable...until tonight. On the 20 yard line, how do you not run the ball three times and kick the field goal?
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I imagine this Superbowl outcome has disgusted the highest amount of viewers, ever.
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I agree with most of the comments here.
Abstract question…
What percentage of this was a New England come back and what percentage of this was an Atlanta collapse?
I'd say 90% Atlanta collapse
Yep. NE's comeback was amazing, but if ATL just made the obvious calls after the Jones catch, it never would have gone to OT.
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Yep. NE's comeback was amazing, but if ATL just made the obvious calls after the Jones catch, it never would have gone to OT.
Disagreed that it's 90% ATL choking. NE had to be perfect for the last 17 minutes of football, and they were. Even if ATL throws it and it's simply incomplete they still are in FG range. They needed to make a play and they did (getting the sack). They needed to score touchdowns on back to back possessions and get 2 point conversions on back to back possessions. They needed to go 91 yards in 3 and a halfish minutes. Etc. Etc. Etc.
It was about 95% NE being NE and 5% Atlanta leaving the door open.
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By the way, for anybody who hasn't seen it, the NFL Films documentary on the Patriots' Super Bowl season from 2 years ago, "Do Your Job," is incredible. Well worth the 45 minutes. Insane how many steps ahead of the game Belichick and their staff is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdnWmKnUcWg
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I have never seen a coaching decision that was undefendable...until tonight. On the 20 yard line, how do you not run the ball three times and kick the field goal?
This. Of course. Absolutely unbelievable that they didn't just run (which they had done well all game) and, if stopped, kick the clinching FG. To me, this was SIGNIFICANTLY more stupid than Seattle trying a first-down pass at the goal line the last time NE won.
I have a friend with an online gambling account and I almost bet $250 on NE -3 and $100 on the over. But I chickened out. For 3Q+ I was happy I had chickened out, but the combination of Atlanta's idiotic play-calling and Brady being Brady would have made me a double-winner!
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Yep. NE's comeback was amazing, but if ATL just made the obvious calls after the Jones catch, it never would have gone to OT.
NE had to make about 20 plays and made them all.
Atlanta had to not screw up and couldn't do it.
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I have never seen a coaching decision that was undefendable...until tonight. On the 20 yard line, how do you not run the ball three times and kick the field goal?
Couldn't agree more. The ultimate choke job, biggest of all time, on the game's biggest stage.
All around - coaches, offense and especially the defense. 31 points in 21 minutes? Even a Caper's defense couldn't have done that. Defensive play calling was unbelievably brutal. Seemed as though they said - we got it won, so just sit back and play as vanilla as possible. No effort to make any changes as NE rolled time after time after time after time.
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Still trying to process what just happened. Certain decisions the Falcons made really odd in hindsight. At the end of the third, Falcons were lined up to punt around midfield. They took a delay of game on purpose, at that exact moment, I said out loud, "this isn't about the yardage, they want the penalty to reset the play clock to end the quarter". And that ended up happening.
When the Pats cut it to 28-20, Falcons return guys were in onside protect (5:56 left), and the Falcons return guy had to sprint back to catch the kick, started that possession with terrible field position.
I know this will sound dumb, but Jeff Seaman (umpire) sprinted in emphatically to give Edelman possession on that crazy catch before the two minute warning. I know you probably should challenge that play, but between Seaman's rush in and the quickness and quality of the camera angles because it's a SB broadcast, that failed challenge really hurt.
Pats had to be perfect to win, but the Falcons certainly helped their cause.
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Somewhere Pete Carrol is smiling and saying thank you.
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Tom Brady is just absolutely amazing. The guy just knows how to get it done
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I was at the game tonight with a dear friend who is Vermont. Most Patriots fans admitted they got a gift with some extremely poor coaching. That's two Super Bowls (Seattle and Atlanta) they were given in my opinion. ATL fans were not pleased, more like sickened.
Enjoyable to be part of history.
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Couldn't agree more. The ultimate choke job, biggest of all time, on the game's biggest stage.
All around - coaches, offense and especially the defense. 31 points in 21 minutes? Even a Caper's defense couldn't have done that. Defensive play calling was unbelievably brutal. Seemed as though they said - we got it won, so just sit back and play as vanilla as possible. No effort to make any changes as NE rolled time after time after time after time.
This
Arthur Blank is the owner of the Falcons (and the founder of Home Depot). At the beginning the fourth quarter he went down to the sidelines with his wife and they were giddy with excitement, like children in a candy store. (They shows them several times on the broadcast) It was emblematic of the entire Falcons team, they really thought the game was over and they were too busy planning the after-party.
By the end of the game Blank and his wife looked like they were attending a funeral ... because they were! His team's funeral!!
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Not running the ball into the line 3 times after the Julio catch was the worst coaching decision I've ever seen.
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With the score 28-3, my wife asks if any team had ever come back from that much. Silly wife. That's impossible.
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Was it just me, or did 98% of America wake up and mutter "effing Patriots" this morning?
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Holy crap. Is that the biggest collapse in sports history?
When ATL punted, I texted in my family group text: "Hmmm...Cavs come back from 1-3 deficit; Cubs come back from 1-3 deficit..."
Clearly, it's the year of the comeback in the major professional sports. Full disclosure: I was rooting for the Falcons (and talking trash with 2:00 left in the third quarter). I didn't want the Pats to come back, but by that point I totally expected them to finish the job. Clearly, ATL's choke was amazing, but NE had no margin for error whatsoever. An amazing comeback. I completely disagree with anyone who says that was 90% ATL choke.
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After the 1985 season, when NE surprised a lot of people by making it to the SB (and getting crushed), who would have ever imagined that 31 years later we'd be looking at the Patriots as arguably the most successful franchise in NFL history. Certainly not me.
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When ATL punted, I texted in my family group text: "Hmmm...Cavs come back from 1-3 deficit; Cubs come back from 1-3 deficit..."
Clearly, it's the year of the comeback in the major professional sports. Full disclosure: I was rooting for the Falcons (and talking trash with 2:00 left in the third quarter). I didn't want the Pats to come back, but by that point I totally expected them to finish the job. Clearly, ATL's choke was amazing, but NE had no margin for error whatsoever. An amazing comeback. I completely disagree with anyone who says that was 90% ATL choke.
Two 3-1 series collapses and 31 unanswered Super Bowl points.
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Was it just me, or did 98% of America wake up and mutter "effing Patriots" this morning?
I feel bad for Falcons fans more than anything. But it is too bad the Patriots had to be the team that crushed them.
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After the 1985 season, when NE surprised a lot of people by making it to the SB (and getting crushed), who would have ever imagined that 31 years later we'd be looking at the Patriots as arguably the most successful franchise in NFL history. Certainly not me.
Uh hem, Packers. History started before 2000.
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Two 3-1 series collapses and 31 unanswered Super Bowl points.
Plus Jenkins buzzer beater for Nova and Clemson in football. Quite a calendar year for sports championships.
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Uh hem, Packers. History started before 2000.
Exactly. I don't recall Boston ever being called "Titletown."
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I was rooting for the patriots simply because I dislike Roger so much. I wasn't mad that Atlanta was kicking butt for 3 quarters, merely disappointed that I wouldn't get to see the trophy presentation to NE.
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Plus Jenkins buzzer beater for Nova and Clemson in football. Quite a calendar year for sports championships.
I just meant that it was a lot of 3s and 1s involved there.
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Couldn't agree more. The ultimate choke job, biggest of all time, on the game's biggest stage.
All around - coaches, offense and especially the defense. 31 points in 21 minutes? Even a Caper's defense couldn't have done that. Defensive play calling was unbelievably brutal. Seemed as though they said - we got it won, so just sit back and play as vanilla as possible. No effort to make any changes as NE rolled time after time after time after time.
Actually they should have been more vanilla. 3rd and 1, they pass and Ryan gets stripped sacked. Next possession after the Julio catch, they lose 13 yards on a sack.
BTW, for as bad as those play calls were Matt Ryan simply cannot turn the ball over and take that sack in those situations. For as good as he played, he has to know better than that.
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Was it just me, or did 98% of America wake up and mutter "effing Patriots cheaters" this morning?
FTFY
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This. Of course. Absolutely unbelievable that they didn't just run (which they had done well all game) and, if stopped, kick the clinching FG. To me, this was SIGNIFICANTLY more stupid than Seattle trying a first-down pass at the goal line the last time NE won.
I have a friend with an online gambling account and I almost bet $250 on NE -3 and $100 on the over. But I chickened out. For 3Q+ I was happy I had chickened out, but the combination of Atlanta's idiotic play-calling and Brady being Brady would have made me a double-winner!
This is easy to say with hindsight.
Suppose that ATL runs 3 straight plays and gains a few yards. Or perhaps they run three straight times and each results in a negative carry. Say the kicker misses the field goal (or are perhaps pushed out of FG range from the negative carries). And then Brady et al storm down field, score, etc.
People would have then said this about the ATL playcalling: "I just don't get it...ATL took its foot of their throats...they should have just played their game, stick with what was working...they stopped playing football and started playing clock management."
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Actually they should have been more vanilla. 3rd and 1, they pass and Ryan gets stripped sacked. Next possession after the Julio catch, they lose 13 yards on a sack.
BTW, for as bad as those play calls were Matt Ryan simply cannot turn the ball over and take that sack in those situations. For as good as he played, he has to know better than that.
The biggest problem I had with the play call that resulted in the strip-sack was Atl's formation. It was 3rd and 1 and Ryan was in the shotgun with Freeman lined up 2 yards behind the right tackle. They're not running out of that. You're not going to catch a DB (or a blitzing LB!) hesitating or peeking into the backfield for a split-second. It was a pass all the way. Not only that but there were no short routes. No slant, no pick, no out. Every receiver was 7+ yards down field when Ryan got hit. Even if they throw a short incompletion or get stuffed on a run, they're punting from the 35 and likely pinning NE around the 20 with under 8 to play and a 16-point lead.
I definitely agree that Ryan has to know better than to take a sack but he shouldn't be put in that situation to begin with. A seven-step drop when you cannot afford to take a sack? Inexcusable.
The Pats did everything they needed to do to win and the Falcons did everything they needed to do to lose.
This is easy to say with hindsight.
Suppose that ATL runs 3 straight plays and gains a few yards. Or perhaps they run three straight times and each results in a negative carry. Say the kicker misses the field goal (or are perhaps pushed out of FG range from the negative carries). And then Brady et al storm down field, score, etc.
People would have then said this about the ATL playcalling: "I just don't get it...ATL took its foot of their throats...they should have just played their game, stick with what was working...they stopped playing football and started playing clock management."
1) They were at the 23 yard line. Bryant's long on the season was 59 (he made 34 of 37 FGs). They'd have to have some terrible running plays to be driven back 20 yards on 3 carries.
2) The running game was working for the Falcons. They were averaging 6 yds/carry. Not to mention they were #5 in the NFL in rushing yards and had the 4th-leading rusher in the NFC.
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This is easy to say with hindsight.
Suppose that ATL runs 3 straight plays and gains a few yards. Or perhaps they run three straight times and each results in a negative carry. Say the kicker misses the field goal (or are perhaps pushed out of FG range from the negative carries). And then Brady et al storm down field, score, etc.
People would have then said this about the ATL playcalling: "I just don't get it...ATL took its foot of their throats...they should have just played their game, stick with what was working...they stopped playing football and started playing clock management."
I'd take my chances kneeling the ball 4 times (meaning an intentional turnover on downs) over what the Falcons did. At least they would've forced the Pats to take their timeouts and you're still up 8 with around 3 minutes left.
I'll take my chances that my NFL kicker can make a 40-46 (if you assume 0 to negative 2 yards per carry after the Jones catch) yard field goal to go up 11 and leave NE with 0 timeouts and a little over 3 minutes left. If the kicker misses and it's an 8 point game that's on the kicker, not on the coach. Nobody is blaming Mike Zimmer for not getting the football into the end zone against the Seahawks last year. They're blaming Blair Walsh for missing a 26 yard field goal, and rightfully so.
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Didn't help that in the 4th quarter with game clock running, Falcons consistently snapped the ball with 15 seconds to go on the play clock.
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Aww, come on guys we know the game was fixed.
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I'd take my chances kneeling the ball 4 times (meaning an intentional turnover on downs) over what the Falcons did. At least they would've forced the Pats to take their timeouts and you're still up 8 with around 3 minutes left.
I'll take my chances that my NFL kicker can make a 40-46 (if you assume 0 to negative 2 yards per carry after the Jones catch) yard field goal to go up 11 and leave NE with 0 timeouts and a little over 3 minutes left. If the kicker misses and it's an 8 point game that's on the kicker, not on the coach. Nobody is blaming Mike Zimmer for not getting the football into the end zone against the Seahawks last year. They're blaming Blair Walsh for missing a 26 yard field goal, and rightfully so.
Exactly. Matt Bryant was 9-9 on field goals from 40-49 yards this season.
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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/falcons-key-offensive-philosophy-came-051152761.html
Article nicely sums up the Scoopers' complaint:
The Falcons' play-calling was immediately questioned. Why attempt to pass the ball, with the lead, time on your side, while in range of a field goal that could have effectively ended the Patriots' comeback attempt? It seemed wiser to run the ball, run out the clock, and attempt the field goal. With a field goal, the Falcons would have gone up 11, forcing the Patriots to go for two and kick a field goal just to tie the game.
Matty Ice responds:
After the game, Falcons quarterback Matt Ryan explained that by throwing a pass, the Falcons ultimately stuck by their offensive philosophy all season: be aggressive.
"That's very much in character with what we did all year," Ryan said of the passing play that led to the sack. "We were aggressive. We felt like it was the right thing to do at the time.
As does Shanahan:
"You always want to run the ball. You don't want to just run the ball and make your guy take a 50-yard field goal."
And the justification:
[The Falcons] were third in passing yards on the season and first in yards per attempt. Matt Ryan steered the ship and ultimately won MVP because of his arm. This was their identity all season.
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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/falcons-key-offensive-philosophy-came-051152761.html
Article nicely sums up the Scoopers' complaint:
The Falcons' play-calling was immediately questioned. Why attempt to pass the ball, with the lead, time on your side, while in range of a field goal that could have effectively ended the Patriots' comeback attempt? It seemed wiser to run the ball, run out the clock, and attempt the field goal. With a field goal, the Falcons would have gone up 11, forcing the Patriots to go for two and kick a field goal just to tie the game.
Matty Ice responds:
After the game, Falcons quarterback Matt Ryan explained that by throwing a pass, the Falcons ultimately stuck by their offensive philosophy all season: be aggressive.
"That's very much in character with what we did all year," Ryan said of the passing play that led to the sack. "We were aggressive. We felt like it was the right thing to do at the time.
As does Shanahan:
"You always want to run the ball. You don't want to just run the ball and make your guy take a 50-yard field goal."
And the justification:
[The Falcons] were third in passing yards on the season and first in yards per attempt. Matt Ryan steered the ship and ultimately won MVP because of his arm. This was their identity all season.
But it wasn't a 50 yard field goal. It was a 40+ yard field goal from where the Jones' catch was made.
And I do understand the philosophy. Ryan just can't take a sack there.
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We felt like it was the right thing to do at the time.
I think Ryan and Shanahan were the only two people on earth who felt that way. Well, them and every Patriots fan....
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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/falcons-key-offensive-philosophy-came-051152761.html
Article nicely sums up the Scoopers' complaint:
The Falcons' play-calling was immediately questioned. Why attempt to pass the ball, with the lead, time on your side, while in range of a field goal that could have effectively ended the Patriots' comeback attempt? It seemed wiser to run the ball, run out the clock, and attempt the field goal. With a field goal, the Falcons would have gone up 11, forcing the Patriots to go for two and kick a field goal just to tie the game.
Matty Ice responds:
After the game, Falcons quarterback Matt Ryan explained that by throwing a pass, the Falcons ultimately stuck by their offensive philosophy all season: be aggressive.
"That's very much in character with what we did all year," Ryan said of the passing play that led to the sack. "We were aggressive. We felt like it was the right thing to do at the time.
As does Shanahan:
"You always want to run the ball. You don't want to just run the ball and make your guy take a 50-yard field goal."
And the justification:
[The Falcons] were third in passing yards on the season and first in yards per attempt. Matt Ryan steered the ship and ultimately won MVP because of his arm. This was their identity all season.
I have no problem with being aggressive, but a team can remain aggressive while also avoiding being stupid. Aside from a turnover, the worst thing that could happen in that situation was a sack for a significant loss. The most probable way for that to happen is with a deep drop. Therefore, it seems logical to avoid plays that involve a 7-step drop. There's a time and place to be aggressive. When you have an excellent kicker, you're in FG range and a FG all but ices a championship for your team, that's the perfect time to play conservatively.
That said, I wonder if McClellin's penalized hurdle on a PAT along with another near-block on a PAT was in Shanahan's mind while calling that pass play.
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This is easy to say with hindsight.
Suppose that ATL runs 3 straight plays and gains a few yards. Or perhaps they run three straight times and each results in a negative carry. Say the kicker misses the field goal (or are perhaps pushed out of FG range from the negative carries). And then Brady et al storm down field, score, etc.
People would have then said this about the ATL playcalling: "I just don't get it...ATL took its foot of their throats...they should have just played their game, stick with what was working...they stopped playing football and started playing clock management."
Well, you weren't in the room with me so you'll have to take my word for it, but I didn't just say it in hindsight. After yet another incredible catch by Julio gave Atlanta the ball at the 22 with less than 5 minutes to go, I told a roomful of people that all the Falcons had to do was run it 3 times up the middle or at worst attempt a "safe" pass like a screen. Stay inbounds. Don't stop the clock with incompletions. Force the Pats to burn their TOs and let Bryant, one of the best kickers in the world, make the kind of kick he has his entire career.
Would some have second-guessed had that backfired? Of course, but the odds were far better doing it that way. Much less risk of a turnover. No clock stoppage. Burn the timeouts. Force a TD, 2-pt conversion, onside kick recovery AND FG just to tie, all with 1 or no TOs remaining. No-brainer.
For those that say, "Well, the Falcons were just trusting Ryan to do what he did all year," how about also trusting the kicker do what he has always done his entire career?
I agree with TAMU that it was indefensible.
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Didn't help that in the 4th quarter with game clock running, Falcons consistently snapped the ball with 15 seconds to go on the play clock.
This was driving me nuts
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Didn't help that in the 4th quarter with game clock running, Falcons consistently snapped the ball with 15 seconds to go on the play clock.
This. I commented about it at the time. One time they snapped with 19 seconds left on the play clock. A couple others were in the 15-18 second range.
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This. I commented about it at the time. One time they snapped with 19 seconds left on the play clock. A couple others were in the 15-18 second range.
It really is amazing when something so obvious totally escapes the notice of the QB and coaching staff.
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Yeah ... I thought I was the only one who noticed that. I was screaming at the TV, "Take the clock down to 1 second."
They absolutely deserved to lose. And they did!
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This is easy to say with hindsight.
Suppose that ATL runs 3 straight plays and gains a few yards. Or perhaps they run three straight times and each results in a negative carry. Say the kicker misses the field goal (or are perhaps pushed out of FG range from the negative carries). And then Brady et al storm down field, score, etc.
People would have then said this about the ATL playcalling: "I just don't get it...ATL took its foot of their throats...they should have just played their game, stick with what was working...they stopped playing football and started playing clock management."
No, I said it out loud immediately as Ryan dropped back to pass, even before he got dumped on his rear.
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It really is amazing when something so obvious totally escapes the notice of the QB and coaching staff.
Ryan absolutely choked in that regard. But where were the coaches????
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24 hours later, I'm still stunned. Falcons ran it five time (5!!!!!) after they got up 28-9.
It will never cease to amaze me that a billion dollar business routinely makes horrendous coaching blunders at the most crucial periods of games. It's almost not even funny anymore. The Falcons had the perfect loss.
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24 hours later, I'm still stunned. Falcons ran it five time (5!!!!!) after they got up 28-9.
It will never cease to amaze me that a billion dollar business routinely makes horrendous coaching blunders at the most crucial periods of games. It's almost not even funny anymore. The Falcons had the perfect loss.
So now NE has won 2 SBs where a team failed to run the ball on obvious running plays at the end of games.
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So now NE has won 2 SBs where a team failed to run the ball on obvious running plays at the end of games.
Yep. Brady could easily be 3-4 in Super Bowls...then again, he could also easily be 7-0.
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65 posts and not one comment on how Lady Gaga killed at halftime? :D
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65 posts and not one comment on how Lady Gaga killed at halftime? :D
Is this sarcasm or some inside joke? I thought the show was great. Very entertaining.
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Is this sarcasm or some inside joke? I thought the show was great. Very entertaining.
No sarcasm at all. I just thought I would get roasted for posting what might be considered a girly comment.
She was awesome. Even if her style of music is not your thing, I think most people can appreciate her talent.
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No sarcasm at all. I just thought I would get roasted for posting what might be considered a girly comment.
She was awesome. Even if her style of music is not your thing, I think most people can appreciate her talent.
Actually commented at the time (to my wife and three teenage daughters) that I enjoyed her halftime show more than any other in recent memory. I thought she did great. And I wouldn't really say that I'm a fan.
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Lady Gaga has never really been my thing, but she absolutely nailed the halftime show.
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No sarcasm at all. I just thought I would get roasted for posting what might be considered a girly comment.
She was awesome. Even if her style of music is not your thing, I think most people can appreciate her talent.
Oh chickadee, you're such a girly girl!
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In OT, Vic Beasley dropped a INT in the end zone. Would have been a hard catch but it was in his hand
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In OT, Vic Beasley dropped a INT in the end zone. Would have been a hard catch but it was in his hand
I wouldn't go so far as to say he dropped an INT. Had he gotten his head around a half-second sooner, he would have had a very good chance to pick it off but as it was, he got one hand up and deflected the pass. Perhaps OBJ makes that one-handed snag but that's a lot to ask of a rush linebacker.
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The Edelman catch should have been a pick. Bad throw, corner was right there.