MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Big Daddy 84 on December 04, 2016, 05:33:09 PM
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Best back to back recruiting classes since when?
If you look at last year’s and this year’s classes, you have to give WOJO an A, and I am thinking about the these classes being the best back to back classes since when?
HE One and done Hit
HC Hit potential superstar
TC Solid only to get better
Matt Heldt solid only to get better
MH Hit- potential superstar
SH- Hit- potential superstar
Sacar Amin- incomplete
Stan had me convinced that HC ad Howard where difference makers before they arrived. Wojo felt the same about Sam and felt he was under the radar some based on the quality of teammates at SPLASH. Very high on next year’s class, especially in regard to defense and boards plus bailey.
My vote for best back to back classes since 80-81 (doc rivers/MM- Johnson brothers) Could make argument for Wade-Deiner. Or do we have to go back to Al’s last classes. Talk amongst yourselves.
GA fans where very confident they were going to win today. This was an important game for them and was one they were all in on. It was a big win. All of the made 3pts, especially in the 1st half was driving the GA fans crazy.
PS Don't want to sound like a creeper, but they had some really nice cheerleaders.
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I'm convinced we've got some great underclassmen talent. Bodes well for the future.
And everyone knows southern women are the most attractive. I knew that more than 30 years ago. ;D
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I'm convinced we've got some great underclassmen talent. Bodes well for the future.
And everyone knows southern women are the most attractive. I knew that more than 30 years ago. ;D
Thank you, dear. Now you know why I moved to a place that had less competition. ;)
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Thank you, dear. Now you know why I moved to a place that had less competition. ;)
I beg to differ. You're ok chick, but Dgies and I would argue that there are some Superior girls that can send a southern broad a whimpering.
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Well our top two scores all time are back to back so there's a good argument there
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I beg to differ. You're ok chick, but Dgies and I would argue that there are some Superior girls that can send a southern broad a whimpering.
I think they are talking about looks, not fist-fights and beer drinking abilities. I know its weird, but some people have their priorities all screwed up.
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I beg to differ. You're ok chick, but Dgies and I would argue that there are some Superior girls that can send a southern broad a whimpering.
Hey Real, while my Mom was a Superior girl and my family is from there, Chick and I went to the same high school! A few years apart but we're both Ryan grads. We lived in Nashville for a lot of years!
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I'm convinced we've got some great underclassmen talent. Bodes well for the future.
And everyone knows southern women are the most attractive. I knew that more than 30 years ago. ;D
Why do you think I moved to Texas?
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Best back to back recruiting classes since when?
If you look at last year’s and this year’s classes, you have to give WOJO an A, and I am thinking about the these classes being the best back to back classes since when?
HE One and done Hit
HC Hit potential superstar
TC Solid only to get better
Matt Heldt solid only to get better
MH Hit- potential superstar
SH- Hit- potential superstar
Sacar Amin- incomplete
Stan had me convinced that HC ad Howard where difference makers before they arrived. Wojo felt the same about Sam and felt he was under the radar some based on the quality of teammates at SPLASH. Very high on next year’s class, especially in regard to defense and boards plus bailey.
My vote for best back to back classes since 80-81 (doc rivers/MM- Johnson brothers) Could make argument for Wade-Deiner. Or do we have to go back to Al’s last classes. Talk amongst yourselves.
GA fans where very confident they were going to win today. This was an important game for them and was one they were all in on. It was a big win. All of the made 3pts, especially in the 1st half was driving the GA fans crazy.
PS Don't want to sound like a creeper, but they had some really nice cheerleaders.
If he could coach we be NCAA champs. Wait for it......
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Why do you think I moved to Texas?
Bc it was an easy $78/yr gig
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Hey Real, while my Mom was a Superior girl and my family is from there, Chick and I went to the same high school! A few years apart but we're both Ryan grads. We lived in Nashville for a lot of years!
I'm guessing your heart still is still in the north woods.
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Pops, I was at da infamous Tourney game in Athens when da Dream "fouled" out. Pretty sure we coulda kicked UCLA's ass, had we met. Still bust out in hives just thinkin' 'bout it, hey?
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Pops, I was at da infamous Tourney game in Athens when da Dream "fouled" out. Pretty sure we coulda kicked UCLA's ass, had we met. Still bust out in hives just thinkin' 'bout it, hey?
Was our best chance to win another.
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Pops, I was at da infamous Tourney game in Athens when da Dream "fouled" out. Pretty sure we coulda kicked UCLA's ass, had we met. Still bust out in hives just thinkin' 'bout it, hey?
One of the worst-reffed games in history. Dino gets called (I believe) for three offensive fouls on plays where he simply went up and his defender flopped. Total crap.
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Always extremely impressed by the scenery every time been to a game in Lexington. About the exact opposite ratio in the small Western Wisconsin place I live in currently.
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Why do you think I moved to Texas?
Cause everything's got horns...no that's not it....cause the stear are bigger? Yeah that must be it
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Wojo ... meh.
“They were a great offensive team," Georgia guard J.J. Frazier said. "They run their sets well and with precision, and we knew that coming in. They made a couple of tough shots, but for the most part we gave them too much space.”
What does he know? If he were a Scooper he'd know we shoulda fired Wojo back in 2014.
Can't coach. Can't recruit. Can't motivate. Only talks hoarsely about nuthin' during timeouts that are caught on mic and wishes our guys would slap the floor like he did.
There never, ever, ever has been a single decent head coach in college basketball history who languished as an assistant for a decade or more. Roy doesn't count. Neither does Izzo. Why? Because if they counted it would eff up a perfectly good rip on Wojo.
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All the scoopers that can't stand Wojo are probably pretty bummed you posted this thread.
I couldn't agree more. Yes heldt was a 3 star but he will be a solid contributor.
Yes Traci sometimes plays at a million miles an hour which leads to a ridiculous turnover but he is a solid PG (Only a sophomore) and a perfect alternative to Howard.
Yes Sacar is red shirting, but that's huge for Sacar and huge for the team.
Hanni... enough said.
Howard and Hauser... have been much more than anyone could have expected at this point. (Except maybe JB).
HE is in the NBA. So obviously that is awesome for him, for Wojo and for MU as a program. And us as fans.
Wojo has recruited amazingly. Do I have my doubts some days? Yea sometimes. But this is only his second recruiting class and they are looking solid.
Now after this, is there a chance we lay an egg and get frustrated? Yes. But they are also freshmen and sophomores.
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Watched the second half again tonight. I still can't believe UW dragged their feet with Sam the way they did. For years, they've locked up in-state guys like him early.
What I loved today was his toughness. Went to work as much as he could on Maten, and held his own on the glass. On the other end, if he had a guard on him, he posted the guy up.
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And I believe some good prospects on the horizon that can play the 4,5. Maybe I have that wrong but Wojo's doing a good job recruiting methinks.
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Watched the second half again tonight. I still can't believe UW dragged their feet with Sam the way they did. For years, they've locked up in-state guys like him early.
What I loved today was his toughness. Went to work as much as he could on Maten, and held his own on the glass. On the other end, if he had a guard on him, he posted the guy up.
Bo's final parting gift to MU, the Hauser bros.
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One of the worst-reffed games in history. Dino gets called (I believe) for three offensive fouls on plays where he simply went up and his defender flopped. Total crap.
It was good scouting by Ohio St. and poor in game adjustment by Al.
Ohio St. set up their defender to to defend how MU would inbound the ball and rush up the sideline. The game resulted in a rule change. After that a player has a right to take a step after catching an inbounds pass. In the end all of that should not of mattered. MU had a three point lead with the ball under two minutes to go. No shot clock, so we needed to just hold on to ball and make free throws. Chones takes a jump turnaround shot and misses. Ohio St scores and on the next possession Chones misses the same shot and Ohio St. scores again. It was the only game that Meminger ever fouled out, but I will never understand why we did not just hold unto the ball with under two minutes to go.
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Watched the second half again tonight. I still can't believe UW dragged their feet with Sam the way they did. For years, they've locked up in-state guys like him early.
What I loved today was his toughness. Went to work as much as he could on Maten, and held his own on the glass. On the other end, if he had a guard on him, he posted the guy up.
I'm plenty impressed by Sam's 3-point shooting - I actually am stunned when he misses, a situation that reminds me of how I felt during the Novak years.
Yesterday, I was really impressed by two other shots he made: a nice fade-away 12-footer from the right baseline, and an oustanding shot from the lane on a post-up. The kid definitely has offensive game, and his D isn't all that bad - and will get better with maturity and more strength.
Sam also is the kind of player who can be huge for a program because he's just good enough to excel but not quite spectacular enough to leave early. I saw that at Illinois in the early- to mid-aughts when they had Cook, Deron Williams, Brown, Augustine, Head, Ingram, Powell, etc. Only Williams left early, and that was after three years. No wonder they won a lot during that span.
If Joey really is better than Sam, and if we get him too ... wow!
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Yesterday, I was really impressed by two other shots he made: a nice fade-away 12-footer from the right baseline, and an oustanding shot from the lane on a post-up.
Those two shots were really amazing - the type of shots you typically see from a Jr/Sr who are savvy & have a lot of experience under their belt.
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Sam understands defensive principles and is generally where he is supposed to be in theory. And he scraps like crazy. Two very important pieces. He is young and skinny right now and he is physically overmatched at times. No shame in that for a freshman. As he adds muscle and gains experience, he will only get better at defending opposing 4's. If he had shoulders and arms like KR right now, he might be the best player on the team.
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Sam understands defensive principles and is generally where he is supposed to be in theory. And he scraps like crazy. Two very important pieces. He is young and skinny right now and he is physically overmatched at times. No shame in that for a freshman. As he adds muscle and gains experience, he will only get better at defending opposing 4's. If he had shoulders and arms like KR right now, he might be the best player on the team.
He can definitely be the best player in spurts, but you are right until he gets some maturity and muscle he's just not going to be able to dominate game in and out. Having said all that, he is definitely my second favorite on this team.
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He can definitely be the best player in spurts, but you are right until he gets some maturity and muscle he's just not going to be able to dominate game in and out. Having said all that, he is definitely my second favorite on this team.
So who is third behind Deon and Sam?
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Al getting Jim Chones in 1970, Larry McNeil, in 1971, Maurice Lucas in 1972, (cant remember 1973), Bo Ellis and (Bernard Toone?) in 1974 has to be right up there with back to back classes.
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I'm plenty impressed by Sam's 3-point shooting - I actually am stunned when he misses, a situation that reminds me of how I felt during the Novak years.
Yesterday, I was really impressed by two other shots he made: a nice fade-away 12-footer from the right baseline, and an oustanding shot from the lane on a post-up. The kid definitely has offensive game, and his D isn't all that bad - and will get better with maturity and more strength.
Sam also is the kind of player who can be huge for a program because he's just good enough to excel but not quite spectacular enough to leave early. I saw that at Illinois in the early- to mid-aughts when they had Cook, Deron Williams, Brown, Augustine, Head, Ingram, Powell, etc. Only Williams left early, and that was after three years. No wonder they won a lot during that span.
If Joey really is better than Sam, and if we get him too ... wow!
Sam had a nice layup under the basket faking out his opponent as well. The kid can play, and to my eyes a more complete player than Henry was last year. And Joey is suppose to better?
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I disagree with the assessment that Sam is 'better' than Henry. Sam is more willing to let the game come to him and take what he can get in the context of the offense. And he is currently shooting far better from 3. Henry dictated the flow of the game and forced other teams to game plan for him. Sam is part of the offense (and a good one), Henry was the offense, with some help from others. And Henry could get a defensive rebound in traffic, dribble the length of the floor and finish on the run with either hand. I don't think Sam is there. Yet. But Sam is likely to be at MU for 4 years. And I am really looking forward to that.
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So who is third behind Deon and Sam?
John Dawson
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Bo's final parting gift to MU, the Hauser bros.
ChitownSpaceForRent should be ChitownJoey.
Where do I send the rent check?
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I disagree with the assessment that Sam is 'better' than Henry. Sam is more willing to let the game come to him and take what he can get in the context of the offense. And he is currently shooting far better from 3. Henry dictated the flow of the game and forced other teams to game plan for him. Sam is part of the offense (and a good one), Henry was the offense, with some help from others. And Henry could get a defensive rebound in traffic, dribble the length of the floor and finish on the run with either hand. I don't think Sam is there. Yet. But Sam is likely to be at MU for 4 years. And I am really looking forward to that.
I agree with this analysis. If you are measuring skill sets and physical attributes, Henry is better than Sam right now. If you are measuring Sam vs Henry within the construct of Marquette's offense and defense, they are very close right now with Sam likely to be "better" by end of this year or next year. But Sam also has more mature players around him like Haanif, Traci, Rowsey, etc that help shape his game.
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I think if Henry had the shooters around him that we do now, he would have been more efficient. This is assuming our offense wouldn't still be "Give it to Henry and hope." He wouldn't have had to force as much and would have had more room to operate.
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John Dawson
This is why I don't understand the Wojo can't coach argument. Dawson has not set the world on fire at Liberty, yet under Wojo at MU he was a Magic Johnson clone.
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Best back to back recruiting classes since when?
If you look at last year’s and this year’s classes, you have to give WOJO an A, and I am thinking about the these classes being the best back to back classes since when?
HE One and done Hit
HC Hit potential superstar
TC Solid only to get better
Matt Heldt solid only to get better
MH Hit- potential superstar
SH- Hit- potential superstar
Sacar Amin- incomplete
Stan had me convinced that HC ad Howard where difference makers before they arrived. Wojo felt the same about Sam and felt he was under the radar some based on the quality of teammates at SPLASH. Very high on next year’s class, especially in regard to defense and boards plus bailey.
My vote for best back to back classes since 80-81 (doc rivers/MM- Johnson brothers) Could make argument for Wade-Deiner. Or do we have to go back to Al’s last classes. Talk amongst yourselves.
GA fans where very confident they were going to win today. This was an important game for them and was one they were all in on. It was a big win. All of the made 3pts, especially in the 1st half was driving the GA fans crazy.
PS Don't want to sound like a creeper, but they had some really nice cheerleaders.
Big Daddy,
You count Henry as part of last year's recruiting as a "hit" but don't even mention Katin Reinhardt in this year's class. He was a very good player, yes, but from a program standpoint is a one and done who doesn't even get you to the NIT and costs you other good players (Levin, maybe Washington and others) a "hit"? Not so much for me. If Katin helps us get into the tournament, though, he may be.
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Big Daddy,
You count Henry as part of last year's recruiting as a "hit" but don't even mention Katin Reinhardt in this year's class. He was a very good player, yes, but from a program standpoint is a one and done who doesn't even get you to the NIT and costs you other good players (Levin, maybe Washington and others) a "hit"? Not so much for me. If Katin helps us get into the tournament, though, he may be.
Without HE, MU would have gone 10-20.
HE was a hit.
Also looks like Daddy didn't include transfers. Ah well. So the list is just high schoolers.
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I agree with this analysis. If you are measuring skill sets and physical attributes, Henry is better than Sam right now. If you are measuring Sam vs Henry within the construct of Marquette's offense and defense, they are very close right now with Sam likely to be "better" by end of this year or next year. But Sam also has more mature players around him like Haanif, Traci, Rowsey, etc that help shape his game.
I lean more towards tower's take. Sam has a great advantage in that he was not expected to do more than find his role in the offense where the expectations for Henry were much greater in that he had to be the first option on offense. Sam's surrounded by a better more balanced and mature team, and it allows him to shine within the team concept.
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I lean more towards tower's take. Sam has a great advantage in that he was not expected to do more than find his role in the offense where the expectations for Henry were much greater in that he had to be the first option on offense. Sam's surrounded by a better more balanced and mature team, and it allows him to shine within the team concept.
Plus last year we had only 3 players that could create their own shot - HE, JJJ and DU (some games only). HE was trying to be the go-to guy on a team with very poor guard play versus Sam playing a role as a second/third option on a team with much improved guards. I just don't know you can compare the situations.
That being said I already like Sam more because I feel that he will be with us for a while.
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Big Daddy,
I have to put my thinking cap on, but think this might be a stretch. In addition, you are a pretty high grader on the fella's. I will keep track of your grades and see where they fit two years from now. That said, on the surface the trend is favorable.
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From what I've seen of Sam vs. Joey:
Sam is a slightly better shooter and isn't very likely to physically dominate a defender. Joey's skillset is more of Hank, a bigger guy who can handle the ball and shoot so opponents have decide whether to put a smaller guy on him who can contain the dribble but will get beat up all day down low or a big who will get beat off the dribble on him. I would say Joey is much more Hank than Sam, but he is a Hank who is willing to get others involved and much more willing to let the game come to him. He's already, as a junior in high school, a much better defender than Hank was at MU. If Joey were to come to MU he wouldn't put up the big numbers Hank did, but he would be a lot more efficient in his play. He can rebound, shoot, dribble, and defend. He's the whole package.
Compared to Sam he's quicker on the dribble, stronger and has some legitimate big man footwork/post moves, but Sam is a better shooter (again, Joey can definitely still shoot it, but Sam...oooeeee!).
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This is why I don't understand the Wojo can't coach argument. Dawson has not set the world on fire at Liberty, yet under Wojo at MU he was a Magic Johnson clone.
Using Magic Dawson in any argument either for or against Wojo's ability to coach is a fools errand.
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From what I've seen of Sam vs. Joey:
Sam is a slightly better shooter and isn't very likely to physically dominate a defender. Joey's skillset is more of Hank, a bigger guy who can handle the ball and shoot so opponents have decide whether to put a smaller guy on him who can contain the dribble but will get beat up all day down low or a big who will get beat off the dribble on him. I would say Joey is much more Hank than Sam, but he is a Hank who is willing to get others involved and much more willing to let the game come to him. He's already, as a junior in high school, a much better defender than Hank was at MU. If Joey were to come to MU he wouldn't put up the big numbers Hank did, but he would be a lot more efficient in his play. He can rebound, shoot, dribble, and defend. He's the whole package.
Compared to Sam he's quicker on the dribble, stronger and has some legitimate big man footwork/post moves, but Sam is a better shooter (again, Joey can definitely still shoot it, but Sam...oooeeee!).
To add, Sam is really a SF and Joey is more of a PF. But what is good about both, there interchangeable. Joey has a much bigger physical presense, and in 2 years
should be even bigger physically, will be able to guard the stronger player, like Maten
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I disagree with the assessment that Sam is 'better' than Henry. Sam is more willing to let the game come to him and take what he can get in the context of the offense. And he is currently shooting far better from 3. Henry dictated the flow of the game and forced other teams to game plan for him. Sam is part of the offense (and a good one), Henry was the offense, with some help from others. And Henry could get a defensive rebound in traffic, dribble the length of the floor and finish on the run with either hand. I don't think Sam is there. Yet. But Sam is likely to be at MU for 4 years. And I am really looking forward to that.
Sam comes from a culture of winning basketball. He has extremely high basketball IQ, he makes the players around him better and his shot not only looks good, but also goes in with amazing frequency.
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Comparing Sam to Henry doesn't especially do justice to either.
Quite different players, skillsets, expectation levels, etc.
I was thrilled we had Henry last season and would have welcomed him back had he gone crazy and had a change of heart.
I am thrilled we have Sam this season (and for several more).
As for Joey, I approve of Marquette signing him. He sounds like a tall, muscular version of me.
Except with talent.
And hair.
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Henry could do things Sam can't.
Because of that Henry sometimes tried to do things he shouldn't.
Some pluses, some minuses.
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Henry could do things Sam can't.
Because of that Henry sometimes tried to do things he shouldn't.
Some pluses, some minuses.
I agree with this analysis
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I wouldn't put heldt at a solid getting better player. We just classified his best game ever as a 4pt 4 rebound. Let's not jump over the moon yet.
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I wouldn't put heldt at a solid getting better player. We just classified his best game ever as a 4pt 4 rebound. Let's not jump over the moon yet.
Offense you usually comes last for a big when they are developing, but your point is not wrong.
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This is why I don't understand the Wojo can't coach argument. Dawson has not set the world on fire at Liberty, yet under Wojo at MU he was a Magic Johnson clone.
Dawson did light up Indiana with two points when they played a few weeks ago. :)
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Sam comes from a culture of winning basketball. He has extremely high basketball IQ, he makes the players around him better and his shot not only looks good, but also goes in with amazing frequency.
Sam and Herro were the two best that I saw last year as far as court awareness.
Would have been nice to get Tyler, too.