MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: muwarrior69 on May 25, 2016, 06:59:45 AM
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My wife and I lived with our parents until we got married. We were both 27 and had quite a nest egg when we married. My aunt on my Dad's side and my uncle on my Mom's side lived with their parents until they died. My wife's aunt also lived with her mother (my wife's grandmother) until she died. I wonder why some believe this is "unusual". I know some of you have kids who are just graduating college. Are they staying home or moving out on their own?
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/05/24/479327382/for-first-time-in-130-years-more-young-adults-live-with-parents-than-partners
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Colleges are now preparing kids for a life of sucking on the government teet and dependency. Not to mention awkward familial arrangements. Progress.
:o
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I believe it is important because since the number of people who are head of household under 34 is regressing to levels not seen since the 60's. Effectively unwinding a couple generations worth of household formation/consumption in the economy at the same time as the baby boomers are starting to downsize, etc.
I would say it is unusual because most social issues we don't look back 50-60 years and think hey it's not so crazy because it happened in the 50's & 60's.
Personally believe a tighter family construct is not necessarily a bad thing, unless it is because of being trapped by debt or lack of opportunity as opposed to choosing to have a tighter family bond. Hopefully it is transitory or by choice.
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My kids are gone and on their own. I have friends with college graduates living with them for economic reasons. I have friends with kids living with them because they want them to, and they still cook for them, do their laundry, etc. I find the latter more more disturbing than the former.
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It's interesting. Chick jr. just came home after college just long enough to study for and pass her Board exams. She already had her MKE apartment situation lined up and so we all knew it was super temporary. Never had to get into a discussion about 'new' role at home post college. Lasted less than 3 months. Jsglow jr. arriving home this week following graduation but expects to spend as much time in MKE as possible where most of his freelance digital media opportunities exist while he continues to look for a permanent gig. While he's more than welcome for as long as he needs to be here, I think he too is anxious to move on with his life. If a gig in Chicago materializes, I suspect he'll live here at home for awhile for economic reasons only.
Bottom line, sometimes I think parents facilitate 'delayed adulthood' for their grown kids. We're trying hard not to fall into that trap. I'm confident we'll be successful for everyone's benefit. But it is an issue I think about these days.
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There are far too many people in this country who do not have at least one of their parents present in their lives (for any number of reasons), especially young kids. Better to let your kids lean on you for too long than to not be there to raise them or be around for them when needed.
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My kids are gone and on their own. I have friends with college graduates living with them for economic reasons. I have friends with kids living with them because they want them to, and they still cook for them, do their laundry, etc. I find the latter more more disturbing than the former.
I'd agree with this. There are kids who need a little emotional support or who need to save up for their own house, etc. It's common sense that they would live with their parents, especially if everybody gets along, contributes to the household, etc.
I have a friend whose 36-year-old son has gainful employment, a newer car and money to buy pot, but he lives at home and pays no bills. His father asked me if he should maybe ask his son to pay the cable bill, and I'm like, "Uh ... yeah. And effen rent, too!"
BTW, my kids, 29 and 28, have been on their own for many years. I was proud when they were able to make it without being on our teets. My son, who lives in Chicago and has a job that lets him pay his rent and bills and not much else, is such a good, loving, hard-working kid that for his birthday last year we decided to pay half of his health-care costs. He was very appreciative of that gift.
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We currently have two sons living at home. One is 27 and college grad and second is 22 and graduated on Sunday. Son #1 at home lived in Chicago for several years after college trying to become a chef and moved home three years ago to change careers and get on solid footing. Son #2 is home strictly to build a nest neg and get himself on solid footing moving forward.
I/we put two rules in place (this included oldest son who lived at home for 2.5 after graduating) and they are:
#1 They have to prove to Mrs. Goose and I that they are saving at least 90% of what living on their own would cost every month. Oldest son saved son saved enough to buy condo in Third Ward with over 20% down payment in 2.5 years plus max out his 401k each year.
#2 They have to follow same rules as when in college home for summer. Basically they need to communicate if home for dinner in advance and if staying out over night we need a text sent to us.
I enjoy having the kids at home but do think expectations are needed on both sides. Mom and I continue supporting them (room and board) and they become responsible adults, save money and get great start in life.
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I'd agree with this. There are kids who need a little emotional support or who need to save up for their own house, etc. It's common sense that they would live with their parents, especially if everybody gets along, contributes to the household, etc.
I have a friend whose 36-year-old son has gainful employment, a newer car and money to buy pot, but he lives at home and pays no bills. His father asked me if he should maybe ask his son to pay the cable bill, and I'm like, "Uh ... yeah. And effen rent, too!"
BTW, my kids, 29 and 28, have been on their own for many years. I was proud when they were able to make it without being on our teets. My son, who lives in Chicago and has a job that lets him pay his rent and bills and not much else, is such a good, loving, hard-working kid that for his birthday last year we decided to pay half of his health-care costs. He was very appreciative of that gift.
Speechless. We're thinking some form of rent begins by the time the leaves turn golden this fall.
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I feel blessed that DadofMUltiples and I are able to support our children when they need us, but that currently the three who are out of college are gainfully employed, responsible adults who choose to live on their own. Like Goose, we have had adult children living with us at various times, and while we have never asked them to pay for room and board, we have set similar expectations about saving and contributing to household duties, cooking the occasional meal and other things. Before we moved, we had a carriage house apartment that our older boys "rented" for the cost of utilities before they moved out on their own. My daughter lived with us for a year after graduation and at Christmas she surprised me with a new LG stainless double oven range as a thank-you for not having to pay rent for the year. Our home will always be open to our kids when they need it, but as we no longer have the 6 bedroom + apartment home, I'm hoping they don't all need us at once!
I'm more concerned about a different trend that I see, and that is parents who continue to support their children to live outside the home after college. When I graduated from college, we rented ratty apartments and used cinder blocks and boards to create storage shelves, bought used cars and learned to live on a budget. Many of my daughter's friends' parents are renting luxury apartments for their children, while the kids spend their money on travel and vip service at clubs and eat most of their meals out. She's had to be very clear with them that she cannot keep up with their lifestyle because she pays for her own rent and her car and is trying to save money to buy a house. Fortunately, she's now dating a really great guy who has similar goals, so she isn't feeling so left behind anymore. I cannot imagine how these parents believe they are doing their kids any favors by allowing them to live beyond their means. In my opinion, if that's the lifestyle they aspire to, they need to go out and earn it.
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It's instant gratification now. Live at home and spend their money on themselves while M&D provide room and board. See many folks who are abetting this practice. My son lived at home after graduating and he hated it. When he finally found a good job he moved out. Both daughters never came back after graduation and all three have been off the payroll for years now. I set the expectations that when they were done with school ,I was done with support. Of course, we are willing to help if needed but they anticipated the spigot being turned off at some time.
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I feel blessed that DadofMUltiples and I are able to support our children when they need us, but that currently the three who are out of college are gainfully employed, responsible adults who choose to live on their own. Like Goose, we have had adult children living with us at various times, and while we have never asked them to pay for room and board, we have set similar expectations about saving and contributing to household duties, cooking the occasional meal and other things. Before we moved, we had a carriage house apartment that our older boys "rented" for the cost of utilities before they moved out on their own. My daughter lived with us for a year after graduation and at Christmas she surprised me with a new LG stainless double oven range as a thank-you for not having to pay rent for the year. Our home will always be open to our kids when they need it, but as we no longer have the 6 bedroom + apartment home, I'm hoping they don't all need us at once!
I'm more concerned about a different trend that I see, and that is parents who continue to support their children to live outside the home after college. When I graduated from college, we rented ratty apartments and used cinder blocks and boards to create storage shelves, bought used cars and learned to live on a budget. Many of my daughter's friends' parents are renting luxury apartments for their children, while the kids spend their money on travel and vip service at clubs and eat most of their meals out. She's had to be very clear with them that she cannot keep up with their lifestyle because she pays for her own rent and her car and is trying to save money to buy a house. Fortunately, she's now dating a really great guy who has similar goals, so she isn't feeling so left behind anymore. I cannot imagine how these parents believe they are doing their kids any favors by allowing them to live beyond their means. In my opinion, if that's the lifestyle they aspire to, they need to go out and earn it.
Holly chit. No chance.
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It's instant gratification now. Live at home and spend their money on themselves while M&D provide room and board. See many folks who are abetting this practice. My son lived at home after graduating and he hated it. When he finally found a good job he moved out. Both daughters never came back after graduation and all three have been off the payroll for years now. I set the expectations that when they were done with school ,I was done with support. Of course, we are willing to help if needed but they anticipated the spigot being turned off at some time.
Exactly.
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There's multiple parts to this coin. I get the economic side of things, and if that's what it's for I guess I'm ok with it, but even then I'm leary. There is something to be said for the young kids figuring out that live isn't sunshine and roses and they have to grind early to get some where in the long run. Even if you have to live in a crappy apartment and drive a crappy car I think there is value latter in live to appreciate the work that goes into making it in life.
I moved straight from Humphrey to an apartment when I graduated college and that was important to both me and my parents. I like my parents and living with them in the summers in college wasn't bad at all....but it also wasn't living by myself which is what college allowed me to appreciate and enjoy. Also didn't have a choice because I wasn't stationed anywhere near them, put we don't need to focus on that.
Having said all that, one of the most memorable conversations I ever had with my father was around this very topic. He said that he was glad I was on my own, not because they didn't like me, but because that I could succeed or fail while still having the safety net of home as an option. The big thing was telling me that I had grown accustomed to a certain lifestyle thanks to my parents hard work and sacrifice and that lifestyle was not something I could afford to continue until I put in a lot of hard work myself. I think that's a big game with the millenial generation is that while there is usually a direct correlation between hard work and financial success they don't immediately follow each other so you can't live like your boomer parents did.
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Further expansion on the generation thing. The boomers and early Gen Xers that are responsible for the millennials have accrued a tremendous amount of wealth in this country and the millennials got to live off of that in their formative years. That type of lifestyle is something they come to expect but the only way to do that is to have mom and dad finance the day to day stuff like rent and food. It's pretty sad that that type of behavior is being fostered and I worry how the millennials will turn out when they are put in a position to fend for themselves and/or make decisions with significant consequence on society.
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There's multiple parts to this coin. I get the economic side of things, and if that's what it's for I guess I'm ok with it, but even then I'm leary. There is something to be said for the young kids figuring out that live isn't sunshine and roses and they have to grind early to get some where in the long run. Even if you have to live in a crappy apartment and drive a crappy car I think there is value latter in live to appreciate the work that goes into making it in life.
I moved straight from Humphrey to an apartment when I graduated college and that was important to both me and my parents. I like my parents and living with them in the summers in college wasn't bad at all....but it also wasn't living by myself which is what college allowed me to appreciate and enjoy. Also didn't have a choice because I wasn't stationed anywhere near them, put we don't need to focus on that.
Having said all that, one of the most memorable conversations I ever had with my father was around this very topic. He said that he was glad I was on my own, not because they didn't like me, but because that I could succeed or fail while still having the safety net of home as an option. The big thing was telling me that I had grown accustomed to a certain lifestyle thanks to my parents hard work and sacrifice and that lifestyle was not something I could afford to continue until I put in a lot of hard work myself. I think that's a big game with the millenial generation is that while there is usually a direct correlation between hard work and financial success they don't immediately follow each other so you can't live like your boomer parents did.
Couldn't agree more eng. 'Bout time Owen start to earn his keep, doncha think?
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After graduating from MU, I lived at home until I was 27, solely to save for a house and engagement ring. I paid rent, and saved like crazy putting money away and investing. Only regret I have is buying a house in Dec 2005, instead of waiting another year and a half after the market collapsed.
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Further expansion on the generation thing. The boomers and early Gen Xers that are responsible for the millennials have accrued a tremendous amount of wealth in this country and the millennials got to live off of that in their formative years. That type of lifestyle is something they come to expect but the only way to do that is to have mom and dad finance the day to day stuff like rent and food. It's pretty sad that that type of behavior is being fostered and I worry how the millennials will turn out when they are put in a position to fend for themselves and/or make decisions with significant consequence on society.
Millennials will be fine. Just like us GenExers such as myself, who were once labelled as "slackers," turned out fine.
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For a variety of reasons, my wife and I are eagerly awaiting our kids moving out of the nest, (our kids are 10, 7, and 4 years old).
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Millennials will be fine. Just like us GenExers such as myself, who were once labelled as "slackers," turned out fine.
I'm not saying they won't be fine, but as a member of the millennial generation I still think the current attitude is ridiculous. I also think the push back from the older generation is part of what forces the new generation to not be that thing they've labeled.
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For a variety of reasons, my wife and I are eagerly awaiting our kids moving out of the nest, (our kids are 10, 7, and 4 years old).
If you start selling heroin or running a prostitution ring, your kids will be out of the house in no time!
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I'm not saying they won't be fine, but as a member of the millennial generation I still think the current attitude is ridiculous. I also think the push back from the older generation is part of what forces the new generation to not be that thing they've labeled.
My point is that people said the same thing about my generation 25 years ago. "Kids" right out of school are smart, but they aren't wise. They'll figure it out just like we did.
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For a variety of reasons, my wife and I are eagerly awaiting our kids moving out of the nest, (our kids are 10, 7, and 4 years old).
HA! You ain't even warmed up yet. Buckle in for the next 20. Helluva ride.
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I still live with my parents, mostly because there's no point of me getting my own place since I'm going to grad school in the fall. But even if I didn't, I probably couldn't afford to live on my own, and I work two jobs. I honestly, don't think I've gone out since like January. I dunno how all of your kids got a job where they could support themselves out of college but good on them.
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SpaceforRent
Don't feel badly about your situation. I agree that it is very difficult to get a job that you can live on your own and save money. Both of my sons make enough to live on their own but they would struggle on getting head start on savings.
I will say one thing does piss me off, all of our kids are on the cellphone plan and I am paying whole bill. It literally is not much per kid but still pisses me off. I recently told each of the three out of school they owe Mom and I an Eddie Martini gift card every year for life.
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I still live with my parents, mostly because there's no point of me getting my own place since I'm going to grad school in the fall. But even if I didn't, I probably couldn't afford to live on my own, and I work two jobs. I honestly, don't think I've gone out since like January. I dunno how all of your kids got a job where they could support themselves out of college but good on them.
What field are you in?
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I feel you, Goose. We currently carry all the kids, my mother and my father-in-law. At least my mom cooks me dinner every once in awhile.
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Goose. I'm still paying cellular for one of them. I told him that he needs to figure out his options in the next six months or so because that is getting yanked.
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We currently have two sons living at home. One is 27 and college grad and second is 22 and graduated on Sunday. Son #1 at home lived in Chicago for several years after college trying to become a chef and moved home three years ago to change careers and get on solid footing. Son #2 is home strictly to build a nest neg and get himself on solid footing moving forward.
I/we put two rules in place (this included oldest son who lived at home for 2.5 after graduating) and they are:
#1 They have to prove to Mrs. Goose and I that they are saving at least 90% of what living on their own would cost every month. Oldest son saved son saved enough to buy condo in Third Ward with over 20% down payment in 2.5 years plus max out his 401k each year.
#2 They have to follow same rules as when in college home for summer. Basically they need to communicate if home for dinner in advance and if staying out over night we need a text sent to us.
I enjoy having the kids at home but do think expectations are needed on both sides. Mom and I continue supporting them (room and board) and they become responsible adults, save money and get great start in life.
Goose:
Your financial requirements and house rules are extremely fair and work toward the goal of them being self-supporting. You are to be commended, and I wish your sons (and you) good fortune and happiness.
Mike
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MU82
Thanks!! Nice to get some support from sane observer. We paid their way 100% all through school and feel we are giving them a fighting chance. So far so good with our boys.
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We currently have two sons living at home. One is 27 and college grad and second is 22 and graduated on Sunday. Son #1 at home lived in Chicago for several years after college trying to become a chef and moved home three years ago to change careers and get on solid footing. Son #2 is home strictly to build a nest neg and get himself on solid footing moving forward.
I/we put two rules in place (this included oldest son who lived at home for 2.5 after graduating) and they are:
#1 They have to prove to Mrs. Goose and I that they are saving at least 90% of what living on their own would cost every month. Oldest son saved son saved enough to buy condo in Third Ward with over 20% down payment in 2.5 years plus max out his 401k each year.
#2 They have to follow same rules as when in college home for summer. Basically they need to communicate if home for dinner in advance and if staying out over night we need a text sent to us.
I enjoy having the kids at home but do think expectations are needed on both sides. Mom and I continue supporting them (room and board) and they become responsible adults, save money and get great start in life.
Very well said.
It's all about respect. You are willing to give it and expect it back in return. That is the secret not only to having post-college kids at home - but to life in general.
Kids want different things in life. My son lived at home until his junior year in college when he got married. He makes more money than I ever dreamed of making, but is not nearly as happy as my wife and I. My daughter lived at home for a short while after college, and while making way, way less (she's a teacher), is very satisfied with her life.
Either would be welcome back home again if the need arose.
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I still live with my parents, mostly because there's no point of me getting my own place since I'm going to grad school in the fall. But even if I didn't, I probably couldn't afford to live on my own, and I work two jobs. I honestly, don't think I've gone out since like January. I dunno how all of your kids got a job where they could support themselves out of college but good on them.
Agree with goose, chitown. MKE is an entirely different animal than Chicago.
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Couldn't agree more eng. 'Bout time Owen start to earn his keep, doncha think?
Mrs. Eng has apparently submitted his picture to several baby clothes retailers as someone who could sell other babies on how cool their clothes are. I'm waiting for that model money to come rolling in any day. If we can at least get free clothes so I don't have to pay $15 for onesies that he wears 3 times before either out growning or sh!%ting up, he'd at least not be taking from us any more.
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I have 16YO grandson whose parents pimped him to do modeling for Kohls as an infant up to about 4YO. His grandma still puts the framed ad of him dressed up as a baby girl in his face at times. ;D
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For a variety of reasons, my wife and I are eagerly awaiting our kids moving out of the nest, (our kids are 10, 7, and 4 years old).
We felt the same.
We love our kids and of course were sad when they left the nest, but we also were happy and proud and even relieved.
One thing I'll tell you - that you probably already know - the time goes by remarkably quickly. At the end of my daughter's high school basketball career, I wrote a column to that effect and it was one of the best-received things I've ever written. People soak up that sappy stuff!
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We felt the same.
We love our kids and of course were sad when they left the nest, but we also were happy and proud and even relieved.
One thing I'll tell you - that you probably already know - the time goes by remarkably quickly. At the end of my daughter's high school basketball career, I wrote a column to that effect and it was one of the best-received things I've ever written. People soak up that sappy stuff!
Excellent point.
We all were so busy working and establishing ourselves...we didnt realize how precious the family time, vacations, school events and sports really were,,, at that time. Try to never miss an event, game, coaching opportunity or time to just read to to your kids. Photos on your cellphone are less important than the mental/emotional memories of the moment. Also, only later do you learn how very early your kids had already grown up.... 1-5 is the formation and by the time of your ten year old ...well you have already done the key work. Junior high and High school is more about just gripping the armchair and being there when they fall down...dont wait until then to impart wisdom and life lessons...you may not be getting through, or even able to effect any real changes .
I have grand children that I spend LOTS of time with...the five year old has already formed her key life attributes..amazing.
Every child we have expands our heart and our love...cherish every moment...it still blows me away how FAST the time went.
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I have 16YO grandson whose parents pimped him to do modeling for Kohls as an infant up to about 4YO. His grandma still puts the framed ad of him dressed up as a baby girl in his face at times. ;D
Hey, I know a girl who did that and then the same person she knew through that used her in a pinch for a commercial that went national when she was in her early teens. Never did a single thing again and still gets a couple grand worth of checks a year in residuals.
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I have grand children that I spend LOTS of time with...the five year old has already formed her key life attributes..amazing.
Every child we have expands our heart and our love...cherish every moment...it still blows me away how FAST the time went.
I think we realize how valuable time is when we have grand kids. We see them every day before / after school during the week as parents are busy working. Great to see them growing into really wonderful young people.
While our kids were much more interested in "stuff" than my wife and I, the grand kids are much more like us.
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Mrs. Eng has apparently submitted his picture to several baby clothes retailers as someone who could sell other babies on how cool their clothes are. I'm waiting for that model money to come rolling in any day. If we can at least get free clothes so I don't have to pay $15 for onesies that he wears 3 times before either out growning or sh!%ting up, he'd at least not be taking from us any more.
Fifteen dollars for a onesie? You can get a sixpack of them for less than that at Walmart. Tell Mrs. Eng to lower her standards. The kid doesn't care and you can put the savings in Eng jr's. Marquette fund.
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Don't people get roommates anymore? If not, I wonder if that is related to 1) the lack of interpersonal skills as a result of all the texting/social media and 2) the coddled, borderline sheltered upbringings of many Millenials.
When I got my first job in 2002 (making $42k, thank you very much), I lived in a 2-bedroom apt with my older brother with each of us paying $375/month. Less than 18 months later, he got married and moved out and another friend moved in for the remainder of the lease. After that, I spent a year living in the upstairs of a house on the East Side with 4 buddies. I then lived by myself for a year in a dumpy apt, then with an awful roommate/friend-of-friend for a year, lived with two female friends in a 3-bed apt for a while and then landed on my own shortly before meeting my wife. Most of my friends have fairly similar post-college stories. Living with my brother was fun, but I would have preferred living on my own to any of those other situations. However, having my housing expenses doubled or even tripled wasn't worth it in the long run. In the end though, I was able to save a good chunk of money while also being forced to grow up and be an adult.
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Don't people get roommates anymore? If not, I wonder if that is related to 1) the lack of interpersonal skills as a result of all the texting/social media and 2) the coddled, borderline sheltered upbringings of many Millenials.
When I got my first job in 2002 (making $42k, thank you very much), I lived in a 2-bedroom apt with my older brother with each of us paying $375/month. Less than 18 months later, he got married and moved out and another friend moved in for the remainder of the lease. After that, I spent a year living in the upstairs of a house on the East Side with 4 buddies. I then lived by myself for a year in a dumpy apt, then with an awful roommate/friend-of-friend for a year, lived with two female friends in a 3-bed apt for a while and then landed on my own shortly before meeting my wife. Most of my friends have fairly similar post-college stories. Living with my brother was fun, but I would have preferred living on my own to any of those other situations. However, having my housing expenses doubled or even tripled wasn't worth it in the long run. In the end though, I was able to save a good chunk of money while also being forced to grow up and be an adult.
My son has two roommates. All of his non-married friends also have roommates. You can't afford to rent in Chicago unless you have roommates.
My daughter had a roommate until she moved in with her boyfriend, meaning, I guess, she still has a roommate.
Methinks you are working a little too hard to generalize here.
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I think when they changed the rules a few years ago where kids could still be claimed as dependents for health coverage to 25 or 26, added to this phenomenon.
I've had the conversation with my kids. You are always welcome home, but at the end of the day this is about mom and I and living our lives, too. You come back from college and need a place to stay for a little while....absolutely. Not long after that...6 months, you start paying rent. After a year, you need to find a roommate someway somehow on your own. Exceptions may apply, but they know the deal.
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Don't people get roommates anymore? If not, I wonder if that is related to 1) the lack of interpersonal skills as a result of all the texting/social media and 2) the coddled, borderline sheltered upbringings of many Millenials.
When I got my first job in 2002 (making $42k, thank you very much), I lived in a 2-bedroom apt with my older brother with each of us paying $375/month. Less than 18 months later, he got married and moved out and another friend moved in for the remainder of the lease. After that, I spent a year living in the upstairs of a house on the East Side with 4 buddies. I then lived by myself for a year in a dumpy apt, then with an awful roommate/friend-of-friend for a year, lived with two female friends in a 3-bed apt for a while and then landed on my own shortly before meeting my wife. Most of my friends have fairly similar post-college stories. Living with my brother was fun, but I would have preferred living on my own to any of those other situations. However, having my housing expenses doubled or even tripled wasn't worth it in the long run. In the end though, I was able to save a good chunk of money while also being forced to grow up and be an adult.
When I was at Marquette my first apartment was a studio, then I had two roommates in a duplex and then I lived with 7 others. It progressively got worse and more expensive believe it or not.
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I feel blessed that DadofMUltiples and I are able to support our children when they need us, but that currently the three who are out of college are gainfully employed, responsible adults who choose to live on their own. Like Goose, we have had adult children living with us at various times, and while we have never asked them to pay for room and board, we have set similar expectations about saving and contributing to household duties, cooking the occasional meal and other things. Before we moved, we had a carriage house apartment that our older boys "rented" for the cost of utilities before they moved out on their own. My daughter lived with us for a year after graduation and at Christmas she surprised me with a new LG stainless double oven range as a thank-you for not having to pay rent for the year. Our home will always be open to our kids when they need it, but as we no longer have the 6 bedroom + apartment home, I'm hoping they don't all need us at once!
I'm more concerned about a different trend that I see, and that is parents who continue to support their children to live outside the home after college. When I graduated from college, we rented ratty apartments and used cinder blocks and boards to create storage shelves, bought used cars and learned to live on a budget. Many of my daughter's friends' parents are renting luxury apartments for their children, while the kids spend their money on travel and vip service at clubs and eat most of their meals out. She's had to be very clear with them that she cannot keep up with their lifestyle because she pays for her own rent and her car and is trying to save money to buy a house. Fortunately, she's now dating a really great guy who has similar goals, so she isn't feeling so left behind anymore. I cannot imagine how these parents believe they are doing their kids any favors by allowing them to live beyond their means. In my opinion, if that's the lifestyle they aspire to, they need to go out and earn it.
I agree with this. It's on steroids out here. The stuff parents are shelling out for their kids is insanity to me. My son is 17, will be a senior after tomorrow and parents buying these kids Lexus, BMWs, etc. I told him....you will walk to school. Then I have other parents saying I'm a cheapskate. Oh well. You can't just give them everything. It boggles my mind. I remember at MU buying a $15 couch....God knows what that thing looked like under a blue light. LOL
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Don't people get roommates anymore? If not, I wonder if that is related to 1) the lack of interpersonal skills as a result of all the texting/social media and 2) the coddled, borderline sheltered upbringings of many Millenials.
When I got my first job in 2002 (making $42k, thank you very much), I lived in a 2-bedroom apt with my older brother with each of us paying $375/month. Less than 18 months later, he got married and moved out and another friend moved in for the remainder of the lease. After that, I spent a year living in the upstairs of a house on the East Side with 4 buddies. I then lived by myself for a year in a dumpy apt, then with an awful roommate/friend-of-friend for a year, lived with two female friends in a 3-bed apt for a while and then landed on my own shortly before meeting my wife. Most of my friends have fairly similar post-college stories. Living with my brother was fun, but I would have preferred living on my own to any of those other situations. However, having my housing expenses doubled or even tripled wasn't worth it in the long run. In the end though, I was able to save a good chunk of money while also being forced to grow up and be an adult.
My first place I had 3 roommates, it was a 3 bedroom apartment. My room was literally a walk-in closet that could fit my bed and a tiny dresser. Had some decent times there.
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I agree with this. It's on steroids out here. The stuff parents are shelling out for their kids is insanity to me. My son is 17, will be a senior after tomorrow and parents buying these kids Lexus, BMWs, etc. I told him....you will walk to school. Then I have other parents saying I'm a cheapskate. Oh well. You can't just give them everything. It boggles my mind. I remember at MU buying a $15 couch....God knows what that thing looked like under a blue light. LOL
I moved out of my parents house at 18, the day after I graduated high school. I bought all my furniture at an auction, my couch was $5. Funny thing, that's the only piece of furniture that stayed with me from the day I enrolled at college until I picked up my Juris Doctor at the Bradley Center on Sunday. I should probably get a new one but it will be hard to let go of all those memories.
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I moved out of my parents house at 18, the day after I graduated high school. I bought all my furniture at an auction, my couch was $5. Funny thing, that's the only piece of furniture that stayed with me from the day I enrolled at college until I picked up my Juris Doctor at the Bradley Center on Sunday. I should probably get a new one but it will be hard to let go of all those memories.
Congratulations!! That's awesome
Same boat for me in terms of moving out...moved 2000 miles NE to go to MU, though Summer I came home for 2 years. Lived in absolute dumps.
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I agree with this. It's on steroids out here. The stuff parents are shelling out for their kids is insanity to me. My son is 17, will be a senior after tomorrow and parents buying these kids Lexus, BMWs, etc. I told him....you will walk to school. Then I have other parents saying I'm a cheapskate. Oh well. You can't just give them everything. It boggles my mind. I remember at MU buying a $15 couch....God knows what that thing looked like under a blue light. LOL
Oh...we get accused of this all the time. And we're far from cheap. But our kids learned long ago that at their high school, we were not able to and had no interest in keeping up with the Joneses. One of the bigger challenges we faced when my son was in HS was when he started running with a group that had seemingly unlimited spending money. He eventually figured it out and learned some really important lessons -- to the point that he never once asked for money his freshman year of college. After he spent a total of about $120 first semester (aside from Christmas gifts for his sisters which we paid for), I actually had to tell him that it was OK to spend a little bit. He spent a bit more second semester, but still never asked for money.
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My dad told me right away "don't expect to get any money from me and your mom."
Probably one of the greatest gifts he gave me. Left no doubt in my mind that I needed to make my own way and motivated me.
(He did generously offer to pay for my first two years though, when tuition was still under control.)
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I agree with this. It's on steroids out here. The stuff parents are shelling out for their kids is insanity to me. My son is 17, will be a senior after tomorrow and parents buying these kids Lexus, BMWs, etc. I told him....you will walk to school. Then I have other parents saying I'm a cheapskate. Oh well. You can't just give them everything. It boggles my mind. I remember at MU buying a $15 couch....God knows what that thing looked like under a blue light. LOL
Our kids paid for their own smartphone plans in college because we refused to put them on ours. We paid for phone and texting, which was all we needed them to have. They used to tell us they were ridiculed because they only kids they knew who didn't have iPhones. We launched into a diatribe about all the things they already had that we never did in college (televisions, computers, roach-free apartments, etc). They knew it was a lost cause.
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Our kids paid for their own smartphone plans in college because we refused to put them on ours. We paid for phone and texting, which was all we needed them to have. They used to tell us they were ridiculed because they only kids they knew who didn't have iPhones. We launched into a diatribe about all the things they already had that we never did in college (televisions, computers, roach-free apartments, etc). They knew it was a lost cause.
We did the same...and then we got a real good deal on data, a birthday came up and...well...yeah.
Hey but we did refuse to give them spending money in college. Jobs were a requirement.
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My dad told me right away "don't expect to get any money from me and your mom."
Probably one of the greatest gifts he gave me. Left no doubt in my mind that I needed to make my own way and motivated me.
(He did generously offer to pay for my first two years though, when tuition was still under control.)
Same here. Any time my parents came to visit or I visited them and they would take me out to dinner, there was no question they were going to pay but every time there was always a joke about my continual mooching off of them for dinner. Keep in mind I was paying for everything on my own once I left college without borrowing or asking for anything. First time I bought dinner for them, the jokes stopped.
It was a good gentle reminder that while they were always there, that was not a desirable outcome.
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When our kids were growing up, I didn't give a flyin' shyte what other kids had that mine didn't.
Mine didn't have video games. Mine didn't have cellphones until they got to high school and smartphones till they were on their own. Mine didn't have designer jeans. Mine didn't have cars - hell, mine didn't even have driver's licenses; don't need 'em in Chicago. Mine didn't have Air Jordans or any other sneakers costing more than the gross domestic products of many small nations. Mine didn't have iPods. Etc, etc, etc. If they wanted any of that kind of crap, they had to earn their own money and buy them.
What did my kids have?
A great family life. The love of two parents who obviously love each other. A good home. A mom who was always there for them when I had to travel a lot. Every single thing they needed (and some things they wanted). Emotional support. Forgiveness when they screwed up.
They also had some pretty fun experiences - summer camps, sports leagues, family trips to Hawaii, AZ, Fla, Europe, Canada, etc.
Oh, and college completely paid for. Because we weren't buying them cars and handing them $20 bills whenever they asked for it, we were able to afford to let them graduate college with no debt. I'd say that's a better gift than a pair of effen designer jeans.
I KNOW our kids thought we were cheap when they were growing up, certainly by the time they were teens and they really saw all the stuff their friends had. But they rarely complained -- because they knew it would fall on deaf ears -- and they now say they are grateful for how they were raised.
My wife, especially, was an amazing mother during their years growing up. I was OK.
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When our kids were growing up, I didn't give a flyin' shyte what other kids had that mine didn't.
Mine didn't have video games. Mine didn't have cellphones until they got to high school and smartphones till they were on their own. Mine didn't have designer jeans. Mine didn't have cars - hell, mine didn't even have driver's licenses; don't need 'em in Chicago. Mine didn't have Air Jordans or any other sneakers costing more than the gross domestic products of many small nations. Mine didn't have iPods. Etc, etc, etc. If they wanted any of that kind of crap, they had to earn their own money and buy them.
What did my kids have?
A great family life. The love of two parents who obviously love each other. A good home. A mom who was always there for them when I had to travel a lot. Every single thing they needed (and some things they wanted). Emotional support. Forgiveness when they screwed up.
They also had some pretty fun experiences - summer camps, sports leagues, family trips to Hawaii, AZ, Fla, Europe, Canada, etc.
Oh, and college completely paid for. Because we weren't buying them cars and handing them $20 bills whenever they asked for it, we were able to afford to let them graduate college with no debt. I'd say that's a better gift than a pair of effen designer jeans.
I KNOW our kids thought we were cheap when they were growing up, certainly by the time they were teens and they really saw all the stuff their friends had. But they rarely complained -- because they knew it would fall on deaf ears -- and they now say they are grateful for how they were raised.
My wife, especially, was an amazing mother during their years growing up. I was OK.
(http://replygif.net/i/716.gif)
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My wife, especially, was an amazing mother during their years growing up. I was OK.
Don't sell yourself short MU82, you're a tremendous slouch
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We did the same...and then we got a real good deal on data, a birthday came up and...well...yeah.
Hey but we did refuse to give them spending money in college. Jobs were a requirement.
(http://t.qkme.me/3siqde.jpg)
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To the point of moving out. I was living in a crappy part of a improving neighborhood, with a roommate and still had to shell out 800 each for rent then add on Internet which is an expense older generations didn't need to deal with on starting salaries, electric, gas, etc it became impossible and had to go home. Currently trying to find a four bedroom so that we can all move back out to the city.
I don't think many millenials are happy staying at home but expenses have gotten absurd that on a starting salary it's next to impossible to make ends meet on your own so we're forced back home.
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A different time, I know, but when I was in college, I had three goals (aside from the obvious - have fun, both legal and illegal, moral and immoral):
1. Get my degree in 4 years.
None of this 5-year or 6-year crapola. I couldn't afford it, and I didn't want to afford it.
2. Walk right from college into a job in my chosen profession.
I used to get a kick out of my friends who majored in poli-sci or philosophy and had absolutely no idea what they wanted to be in life. You're spending thousands of dollars a year (now 10s of thousands) and you're just going to go in there, drift around and say, "Whatever"? When I talk to high school kids, I still advise them to have a plan going in. One can always change it. My wife went to MU planning to be a doctor but realized early on it wasn't for her and switched to Journalism. Now she's a nurse. Life is full of twists and turns; why complicate it even more by having no plan at all?
Actually landing the job might take some luck -- I know that I was lucky as hell. But not having a plan makes it all the more difficult.
3. Live on my own after graduation.
Unlike many of my friends who came from broken or dysfunctional homes, I had a great childhood. I loved, loved, loved my parents. But I didn't want to live with them. More accurately, I didn't want to HAVE to live with them.
Having said that, I know times are different and I already have said I would welcome my kids back home if they absolutely needed it and if they agreed to live by some very reasonable rules. Thankfully, they're on their own.
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My son has two roommates. All of his non-married friends also have roommates. You can't afford to rent in Chicago unless you have roommates.
My daughter had a roommate until she moved in with her boyfriend, meaning, I guess, she still has a roommate.
Methinks you are working a little too hard to generalize here.
Perhaps I was working a little too hard, but it just seems to me that the comfort of mom and dad's house has become the go-to option as opposed to finding a few buddies and a dumpy apt in a not ideal neighborhood. Case in point...
To the point of moving out. I was living in a crappy part of a improving neighborhood, with a roommate and still had to shell out 800 each for rent then add on Internet which is an expense older generations didn't need to deal with on starting salaries, electric, gas, etc it became impossible and had to go home. Currently trying to find a four bedroom so that we can all move back out to the city.
I don't think many millenials are happy staying at home but expenses have gotten absurd that on a starting salary it's next to impossible to make ends meet on your own so we're forced back home.
You can get internet access for $60/month and a 4-bedroom apt in Chicago for $2000. Would it be a new construction palace in The Loop? Of course not. If you have 4 guys living together and add utilities, that's maybe $600/month each? There's also the option of not living in the city. There are a ton of suburbs with nightlife and young people if that's what you're looking for. It might not be as cool but it'd be a whole lot cheaper if money is the issue.
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Perhaps I was working a little too hard, but it just seems to me that the comfort of mom and dad's house has become the go-to option as opposed to finding a few buddies and a dumpy apt or not ideal neighborhood. Case in point...
You can get internet access for $60/month and a 4-bedroom apt in Chicago for $2000. Would it be a new construction palace in The Loop? Of course not. If you have 4 guys living together and add utilities, that's maybe $600/month each? There's also the option of not living in the city. There are a ton of suburbs with nightlife and young people if that's what you're looking for. It might not be as cool but it'd be a whole lot cheaper if money is the issue.
Oh I know I said the reason why we're looking for a four bedroom is because two bedrooms, even in crappy neighborhoods, are no longer affordable.
Unless you're talking about forest park no suburb has night life for young people.
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I’m a millennial who graduated during the recession and spent a year and a half post-graduation living with parents in the Chicago Suburbs. As soon as a I had a full-time (which took a few months), I was paying a small monthly rent. There was no expectation that I had to rush to move out, but contributing and accountability were expected. After a year and a half, I moved to the city with a buddy, and all along I was saving like a madman to buy a condo.
Fast forward a few years and I’ve got a pretty unique millennial living situation. I’ve owned a condo in the city with my girlfriend for four years and my younger brother has lived with us for 2 years, paying a way below market value rent. He could easily afford a one-bedroom rental in a decent neighborhood, but he’s saving a small fortune and his rent sure helps us build our savings. To add to our communal living, we don’t own a car, but my brother’s is available whenever he’s not using it, a perk of using our parking spot. Not a situation that would work for everybody, and it’ll probably come to an end for us shortly, but I’ve enjoyed having him around and we’ve all benefited financially.
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Same here. Any time my parents came to visit or I visited them and they would take me out to dinner, there was no question they were going to pay but every time there was always a joke about my continual mooching off of them for dinner. Keep in mind I was paying for everything on my own once I left college without borrowing or asking for anything. First time I bought dinner for them, the jokes stopped.
It was a good gentle reminder that while they were always there, that was not a desirable outcome.
I think he also meant inheritance, which the way my mom spends on the grandkids I'm starting to believe.
Although I will be getting the Japanese sword my Grandfather brought back from Guam, which is pretty bad as$.
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Oh I know I said the reason why we're looking for a four bedroom is because two bedrooms, even in crappy neighborhoods, are no longer affordable.
Unless you're talking about forest park no suburb has night life for young people.
No offense, but you either need to lower your standards or look harder...or move to a suburb with easy access to the train that'll get you to the city.
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No offense, but you either need to lower your standards or look harder...or move to a suburb with easy access to the train that'll get you to the city.
Perhaps you grew up in the suburbs so it's easy for you to say "move to a suburb" but I've split my time growing up in the city and oak park, which may as well be the city. I loath the suburbs. I'm confident the other younger people on this board who grew up in the city would also laugh at the "move to a suburb" prospect.
I was living in a crappy neighborhood on in south west Logan then the 606 opened and they upped rent by 300 dollars. Not my fault.
Trust me I don't have super high standards. If you saw my place in college, it was a far cry from the 2040s. Finding a four bedroom place in the city thats near the el is tough enough but you start factoring in a place that works for everybody's commute and it gets harder. Two of my potential roommates are occasional posters I'm sure they'll back me up.
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No offense, but you either need to lower your standards or look harder...or move to a suburb with easy access to the train that'll get you to the city.
I'm another that didn't grow up in the Chicago burbs, but I'm curious as to which burbs you include in "tons of burbs" for fun. Ive heard Naperville is fun, but thats practically a mini city to itself. Everyone I talk to that is still in the burbs either can't wait to move to the city or is there for proximity to a job out there and spend weekends in the city with friends.
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I’m a millennial who graduated during the recession and spent a year and a half post-graduation living with parents in the Chicago Suburbs. As soon as a I had a full-time (which took a few months), I was paying a small monthly rent. There was no expectation that I had to rush to move out, but contributing and accountability were expected. After a year and a half, I moved to the city with a buddy, and all along I was saving like a madman to buy a condo.
Fast forward a few years and I’ve got a pretty unique millennial living situation. I’ve owned a condo in the city with my girlfriend for four years and my younger brother has lived with us for 2 years, paying a way below market value rent. He could easily afford a one-bedroom rental in a decent neighborhood, but he’s saving a small fortune and his rent sure helps us build our savings. To add to our communal living, we don’t own a car, but my brother’s is available whenever he’s not using it, a perk of using our parking spot. Not a situation that would work for everybody, and it’ll probably come to an end for us shortly, but I’ve enjoyed having him around and we’ve all benefited financially.
An extremely intelligent, open-minded solution that benefits everybody. Congratulations!
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oak park, which may as well be the city.
Oak Park= Chicago + insufferable snotty attitude. Sorry. By the end of my 12-month lease, I couldn't wait to get the eff out of there.
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Oak Park= Chicago + insufferable snotty attitude. Sorry. By the end of my 12-month lease, I couldn't wait to get the eff out of there.
Hahaha clearly you only met the fenwick kids then.
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I'm hearing a lot about the expense of Chicago. Again, living here is a choice. I had Marquette kids I've offered jobs to who decided they couldn't make it work. My own daughter made the decision to pursue her career in Milwaukee in part because the cost of living was significantly lower up there. I know our son prefers to point in that direction too.
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I set the expectations that when they were done with school ,I was done with support. Of course, we are willing to help if needed but they anticipated the spigot being turned off at some time.
Did the same thing with my son. We told him we'd get him to graduation debt-free but after that he is responsible for himself. He graduated Monday and has a great job lined up in Delaware starting in July and therefore will be on his own immediately.
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I’m a millennial who graduated during the recession and spent a year and a half post-graduation living with parents in the Chicago Suburbs. As soon as a I had a full-time (which took a few months), I was paying a small monthly rent. There was no expectation that I had to rush to move out, but contributing and accountability were expected. After a year and a half, I moved to the city with a buddy, and all along I was saving like a madman to buy a condo.
Sounds familiar. I knew I had only 4-years to graduate. 1991 was not a good year to graduate and I had no engineering job lined up, but I did get offered my supermarket job back, so I moved back to Connecticut. I immediately began paying my mom a small monthly rent. (My dad passed away during Sophomore year.) My brother still had two years of Marquette left. It took 8-months to finally land an engineering job when mom increased the rent. Two years later I managed to save some money and took up the offer from some high school friends to share an apartment in Downtown New Haven where I continued the social life I had as a student until I met my wife.
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MU82
We think much alike. Enjoyed reading your posts. Like your kids, mine were not spoiled with material items but were given life experiences and a great education. All four played travel hockey and my daughter travel soccer and that was our family holidays for the most part. I am very proud that our kids lived what I believe to be a normal life in today's world. Proud of my kids and proud of wife and I sacrificing many luxuries to put our kids in the best private schools in the area beginning in Level A. Would not trade any of it for the world.
It warms my hear when the kids out of the clear blue make a comment or offer sincere thank you for their upbringing. I can assure you far from normal or perfect but as Gary Koch would say "better than most".
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When our kids were growing up, I didn't give a flyin' shyte what other kids had that mine didn't.
Mine didn't have video games. Mine didn't have cellphones until they got to high school and smartphones till they were on their own. Mine didn't have designer jeans. Mine didn't have cars - hell, mine didn't even have driver's licenses; don't need 'em in Chicago. Mine didn't have Air Jordans or any other sneakers costing more than the gross domestic products of many small nations. Mine didn't have iPods. Etc, etc, etc. If they wanted any of that kind of crap, they had to earn their own money and buy them.
What did my kids have?
A great family life. The love of two parents who obviously love each other. A good home. A mom who was always there for them when I had to travel a lot. Every single thing they needed (and some things they wanted). Emotional support. Forgiveness when they screwed up.
They also had some pretty fun experiences - summer camps, sports leagues, family trips to Hawaii, AZ, Fla, Europe, Canada, etc.
Oh, and college completely paid for. Because we weren't buying them cars and handing them $20 bills whenever they asked for it, we were able to afford to let them graduate college with no debt. I'd say that's a better gift than a pair of effen designer jeans.
I KNOW our kids thought we were cheap when they were growing up, certainly by the time they were teens and they really saw all the stuff their friends had. But they rarely complained -- because they knew it would fall on deaf ears -- and they now say they are grateful for how they were raised.
My wife, especially, was an amazing mother during their years growing up. I was OK.
You forgot the part about making them walk uphill both ways to school.
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You forgot the part about making them walk uphill both ways to school.
Not only that, but they were barefoot and it was always snowing. Even in September and June.
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During my second semester of my senior year at Marquette, my father called me and said he was coming up for dinner. He was in Chicago on business and thought it would be nice to see me. It also was very unusual.
When he got to town, we went to dinner and he sat down and said, "You Mother has a message. Don't come home. Go out, get a job selling shoes if you have to, but don't come home."
In one of my finer moments, that to this day bewildered my Dad, is when I looked at him and said, "I have absolutely no intention of coming home. Been there, done that.. and you can tell my Mother anything you want, but that's my expectation. I will have a job!" And I did.
I never did go home other than to visit. I had spent four years working hard to get my Degree and now I wanted to take on the world. I went to a small city in Illinois and lived in a roach-infested barrio apartment for a year before moving above a dry cleaner. It was the best thing that ever happened to me because it lit a fire inside that led to a career. If I had gone home, I'd lived in a very comfortable large home, but geez, it aint worth it!
My two children are both in college -- one is a freshman and the other a junior. I'll do what I can for them in getting started, but they need to be independent and I expect them to be. They need to make their own decisions and learn how to manage the small amount of money that will be their salaries. Not to be harsh, but they won't always have the soft landing of their parents and they need to learn to be self-sufficient.
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During my second semester of my senior year at Marquette, my father called me and said he was coming up for dinner. He was in Chicago on business and thought it would be nice to see me. It also was very unusual.
When he got to town, we went to dinner and he sat down and said, "You Mother has a message. Don't come home. Go out, get a job selling shoes if you have to, but don't come home."
In one of my finer moments, that to this day bewildered my Dad, is when I looked at him and said, "I have absolutely no intention of coming home. Been there, done that.. and you can tell my Mother anything you want, but that's my expectation. I will have a job!" And I did.
I never did go home other than to visit. I had spent four years working hard to get my Degree and now I wanted to take on the world. I went to a small city in Illinois and lived in a roach-infested barrio apartment for a year before moving above a dry cleaner. It was the best thing that ever happened to me because it lit a fire inside that led to a career. If I had gone home, I'd lived in a very comfortable large home, but geez, it aint worth it!
My two children are both in college -- one is a freshman and the other a junior. I'll do what I can for them in getting started, but they need to be independent and I expect them to be. They need to make their own decisions and learn how to manage the small amount of money that will be their salaries. Not to be harsh, but they won't always have the soft landing of their parents and they need to learn to be self-sufficient.
Well said
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During my second semester of my senior year at Marquette, my father called me and said he was coming up for dinner. He was in Chicago on business and thought it would be nice to see me. It also was very unusual.
When he got to town, we went to dinner and he sat down and said, "You Mother has a message. Don't come home. Go out, get a job selling shoes if you have to, but don't come home."
In one of my finer moments, that to this day bewildered my Dad, is when I looked at him and said, "I have absolutely no intention of coming home. Been there, done that.. and you can tell my Mother anything you want, but that's my expectation. I will have a job!" And I did.
I never did go home other than to visit. I had spent four years working hard to get my Degree and now I wanted to take on the world. I went to a small city in Illinois and lived in a roach-infested barrio apartment for a year before moving above a dry cleaner. It was the best thing that ever happened to me because it lit a fire inside that led to a career. If I had gone home, I'd lived in a very comfortable large home, but geez, it aint worth it!
My two children are both in college -- one is a freshman and the other a junior. I'll do what I can for them in getting started, but they need to be independent and I expect them to be. They need to make their own decisions and learn how to manage the small amount of money that will be their salaries. Not to be harsh, but they won't always have the soft landing of their parents and they need to learn to be self-sufficient.
Superb.
Congratulations to you and (hopefully) to your kids!
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Superb.
Congratulations to you and (hopefully) to your kids!
Same to you. Sounds like we're both on the same page in the way our children were raised (and my wife, though a working Mom, was always there for them even when I travelled a lot for business).
Also, thanks Chicos!
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Same to you. Sounds like we're both on the same page in the way our children were raised (and my wife, though a working Mom, was always there for them even when I travelled a lot for business).
Also, thanks Chicos!
That was an odd comment. Are the working moms/parents that you know typically not there for their kids? Personally, my wife works full-time and is significantly more involved and tuned-in to my kids' lives than most of the SAHMs we know.
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That was an odd comment. Are the working moms/parents that you know typically not there for their kids? Personally, my wife works full-time and is significantly more involved and tuned-in to my kids' lives than most of the SAHMs we know.
You have not been in my neighborhood. I agree it's odd, but I also have seen battle lines drawn between the Stay-at-Homes and the Career Women. I don't even want to start that other than to say it is a horrible problem in our neighborhood.
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That was an odd comment. Are the working moms/parents that you know typically not there for their kids? Personally, my wife works full-time and is significantly more involved and tuned-in to my kids' lives than most of the SAHMs we know.
I'll jump in here ...
"Being there" can be defined in different ways.
When my wife was a stay-at-home mom, she literally was there for everything the kids did. Sports, school functions, parent-teacher meetings, recitals, parties, doctor's appointments, etc. After she went back to work, she still tried to attend as many things as she could, but it was impossible to go to them all. We ended up splitting quite a few of them, and even set up a huge chart on our wall to make sure everything was covered by one or both of us.
Nevertheless, she still was extremely supportive of everything they did, so she was "there" for them from that standpoint. She simply wasn't always "there" physically for every event, function, etc. She couldn't be.
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The timing of the SAHM and working mom discussion is pretty interesting as I'm on my first extended business trip since our son was born and the wife is flying solo with EngJr. while working 32 hours a week(with a rigid medical industry schedule). She's obviously stressed the first time, and I'm sure it will get easier with future trips....but it's gotta be tough and I can see why some times the SAHM route happens.
I'd like to avoid that route for multiple reasons: the income is nice, I know she loves her career, I want our son to see that we're equals/both value hard work/career, and I don't like the way a lot of SAHM turn out in the long run (including my mom). I think it's ultimately a personal choice and I wouldn't judge either way, but while it seems harder I feel like it'll be better for everyone long term for both of us to work.
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That was an odd comment. Are the working moms/parents that you know typically not there for their kids? Personally, my wife works full-time and is significantly more involved and tuned-in to my kids' lives than most of the SAHMs we know.
I know I am totally betraying the lady code here, but I have been both a working mom and a stay-at-home mom, and I will let you fellas in on a little secret: The whole "Being a stay-at-home mom is a much harder job than being a working mom" thing is a complete load of crap. Working moms still have to do about 80% of the Mom Stuff that SAHMs do, but here is what they don't have time to do:
- Spend all morning at the gym (while sticking their kid in the gym's daycare center)
- Drive around the suburbs trying to complete their Beanie Baby collection with their kids strapped in their carseats
- Attend playgroups whose main function is to spread neighborhood gossip
But of course, you can't say anything about that, because SAHMs are martyrs who sacrifice their time by passing out carrot sticks at the preschool once a month.
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I know I am totally betraying the lady code here, but I have been both a working mom and a stay-at-home mom, and I will let you fellas in on a little secret: The whole "Being a stay-at-home mom is a much harder job than being a working mom" thing is a complete load of crap. Working moms still have to do about 80% of the Mom Stuff that SAHMs do, but here is what they don't have time to do:
- Spend all morning at the gym (while sticking their kid in the gym's daycare center)
- Drive around the suburbs trying to complete their Beanie Baby collection with their kids strapped in their carseats
- Attend playgroups whose main function is to spread neighborhood gossip
But of course, you can't say anything about that, because SAHMs are martyrs who sacrifice their time by passing out carrot sticks at the preschool once a month.
I can't put into words how much I enjoyed this post!
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/3f30e5aff49f8d5fb40896025ea94584/tumblr_n1uazgR1JJ1qln00mo1_500.gif)
Long story on how she swung it, but my wife took 2 months off between jobs last summer to stay home with our 4 kids (ages 18 mo to 6 years). She has always worked and her SAHM friends kept telling her how difficult it would be and what a HUGE adjustment it would be for her. After a couple weeks she told me that she thinks there's a conspiracy among SAHMs to make working parents believe that nothing could be more difficult than staying home even though it's an easy gig.
To be clear, I don't have anything against SAHMs. My mother stayed home with my brother and me until I was in kindergarten. She still openly talks about how easy it was. I actually think that the "Woe is Me" Mommy Bloggers have really done a disservice to all moms by painting this inaccurate picture of just how hard life is staying home...but it's worth it because they love their children more than working moms ;)
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I can't put into words how much I enjoyed this post!
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/3f30e5aff49f8d5fb40896025ea94584/tumblr_n1uazgR1JJ1qln00mo1_500.gif)
Long story on how she swung it, but my wife took 2 months off between jobs last summer to stay home with our 4 kids (ages 18 mo to 6 years). She has always worked and her SAHM friends kept telling her how difficult it would be and what a HUGE adjustment it would be for her. After a couple weeks she told me that she thinks there's a conspiracy among SAHMs to make working parents believe that nothing could be more difficult than staying home even though it's an easy gig.
To be clear, I don't have anything against SAHMs. My mother stayed home with my brother and me until I was in kindergarten. She still openly talks about how easy it was. I actually think that the "Woe is Me" Mommy Bloggers have really done a disservice to all moms by painting this inaccurate picture of just how hard life is staying home...but it's worth it because they love their children more than working moms ;)
I don't have anything against SAHMs either. And if that is your family's decision, bully for you. But don't feed me the crap that your life is so much harder. Moms who truly want to stay home and can afford to do it should count their blessings and stop bitching.
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Warriorchick
I can assure you that Mrs. Goose would agree 100% with you. She has been a career woman since our kids were young, HS teacher at the school our kids attended from K-5 on and now in the medical field. I cannot say it enough times on how impressive of a Mom she has been all while working 45+ hours a week.
Now with three adult kids at home, one just for a few weeks, it almost like when we had young kids at home. She is back in the groove of making the kids breakfast, worrying about their days and generally knocking out it of the park as a Mom. Her ability to balance all facets of her life has been an unreal role model for our kids, especially our daughter.
Me on the other hand, I liked empty nester life a whole lot more:)
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I know I am totally betraying the lady code here, but I have been both a working mom and a stay-at-home mom, and I will let you fellas in on a little secret: The whole "Being a stay-at-home mom is a much harder job than being a working mom" thing is a complete load of crap. Working moms still have to do about 80% of the Mom Stuff that SAHMs do, but here is what they don't have time to do:
- Spend all morning at the gym (while sticking their kid in the gym's daycare center)
- Drive around the suburbs trying to complete their Beanie Baby collection with their kids strapped in their carseats
- Attend playgroups whose main function is to spread neighborhood gossip
But of course, you can't say anything about that, because SAHMs are martyrs who sacrifice their time by passing out carrot sticks at the preschool once a month.
My wife probably would say most of this same stuff. It's so hard to be everything to everybody. Hell, we don't have kids at home anymore (except me, the biggest kid) and my wife works 50+ hours and I don't work full-time. And yet she STILL does about 80% of the stuff around the house. Including the "man" stuff, like mowing the lawn (honest, she says she likes doing it for the exercise).
I always tell her, "I'm so glad I'm a man! The only downside is that, unlike you, I can't have sex whenever I want!"
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My kids went to daycare until they went to school, and occasionally after school as well. They are smart, well adjusted and living lives on their own. Not once do I feel that we short changed them as parents. In fact I thought day care helped them when they got into school. They never cried and they knew how to deal with other kids better.
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My kids went to daycare until they went to school, and occasionally after school as well. They are smart, well adjusted and living lives on their own. Not once do I feel that we short changed them as parents. In fact I thought day care helped them when they got into school. They never cried and they knew how to deal with other kids better.
Yep. Plus our daycare provider gave them access to stuff that we couldn't/wouldn't: Dogs to play with, a pool, a trampoline, and the ability to go to Six Flags in the middle of the week.
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MU82
My wife does at least 80% of the stuff around the house and is far more handy than I am by a wide margin. She always tackles the big projects, including working a jackhammer when she almost single handily re-did our patio. She even went to brick laying class prior to starting the project. Between her and my one son they completed the project for roughly $20k under lowest quote we received.
More impressive, she did that while working full time and completing her Masters from MCW. She might be the only person I know that completed a Masters degree 25 years after completing her PhD. Not always easy keeping up with her but her work is greatly appreciated.
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I'll add my 2 cents to this. After jsglow jr. was born (our second), chick decided to stay home for an undetermined period of time. Well, after 6 months she hated it and wanted some adult interaction. She was fortunate enough that in her profession opportunities existed for part time work so off she went Tuesdays/Thursdays/Saturday morning. We did that as a family until he started kindergarten 4+ years later. After that she went full time and our kids had the greatest daycare before/after school (and summers) that a family could ever hope for.
My point is that we sincerely believe the time away from mom when they were very little helped them adjust to being around other kids and not insist on being at the center of attention. We really believe they were very well served by that decision. And we're still very close family friends with that daycare provider who ended her run with them 10-15 years ago.
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You have not been in my neighborhood. I agree it's odd, but I also have seen battle lines drawn between the Stay-at-Homes and the Career Women. I don't even want to start that other than to say it is a horrible problem in our neighborhood.
My wife is SAHM, and it of course hits us financially. She does a lot for those kids, plus volunteers for a bunch of things like Meals on Wheels, school stuff, hospital, etc.
I appreciate Chick's comments on this. Currently three of the women on my team at work are pregnant (I have 12 people on current team...10 are women) and they have all decided to continue to work. Whichever direction folks go, that is their choice. I do find it a little odd at times when the Nanny seems to be practically a live in for these people, but to each their own.
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My mother trained as an RN, then took 23 years off to stay home and raise her children. When I had my first child and was deciding whether or not to stay home for a while, she said "I'll let you in on a secret. It's really boring to just raise children. If you stay home, find something else you love to do and get out and do it regularly, or you'll go crazy." I stayed home for two years and realized she was right, you'll go crazy. I went back to work when I was seven months pregnant with child #2, and I've never looked back.
I have to say that I believe I was a better mom because I worked, because I was a happier person and far more organized than I would have been had I stayed at home. For the first 15 years of our marriage I worked a civil service job that was challenging, but did not pay as much as I could demand on the open market, because it gave me ultimate flexibility to work my schedule around my children. I could leave my work on my desk at 4:30 and not touch it again until morning, and I could flex my hours around children's activities such as suzuki string lessons at school in the middle of the day. Once the youngest were in kindergarten, I moved to the private sector and the increased income allowed us to enjoy extras like private school tuition and memorable family vacations.
And here's another betrayal of the lady code (thanks Chick!) - frankly, anyone can raise an infant, toddler or preschooler. They need warmth, and love, stimulation and sustenance. I had no problems putting my children in daycare, where they received all they needed and more, got socialization that they wouldn't have had at home since all the neighbor kids were at daycare too. The time my children needed me most was the middle school years - when things start changing for them, peer pressure kicks in and they are faced with choices they need guidance with. I reduced my in-office hours to six per day so I could be there when they got home from school, got them going on homework and talked to them about their days. It didn't avoid all the problems, but it established close relationships so they knew they could talk to me about anything if they wanted.
I absolutely support women who choose to stay home and raise their children and manage the household. I would hope that they also respect my choice to work while I raised my children. As women, we are lucky to have choices that our 1950's moms never had.
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My mother trained as an RN, then took 23 years off to stay home and raise her children. When I had my first child and was deciding whether or not to stay home for a while, she said "I'll let you in on a secret. It's really boring to just raise children. If you stay home, find something else you love to do and get out and do it regularly, or you'll go crazy." I stayed home for two years and realized she was right, you'll go crazy. I went back to work when I was seven months pregnant with child #2, and I've never looked back.
I have to say that I believe I was a better mom because I worked, because I was a happier person and far more organized than I would have been had I stayed at home. For the first 15 years of our marriage I worked a civil service job that was challenging, but did not pay as much as I could demand on the open market, because it gave me ultimate flexibility to work my schedule around my children. I could leave my work on my desk at 4:30 and not touch it again until morning, and I could flex my hours around children's activities such as suzuki string lessons at school in the middle of the day. Once the youngest were in kindergarten, I moved to the private sector and the increased income allowed us to enjoy extras like private school tuition and memorable family vacations.
And here's another betrayal of the lady code (thanks Chick!) - frankly, anyone can raise an infant, toddler or preschooler. They need warmth, and love, stimulation and sustenance. I had no problems putting my children in daycare, where they received all they needed and more, got socialization that they wouldn't have had at home since all the neighbor kids were at daycare too. The time my children needed me most was the middle school years - when things start changing for them, peer pressure kicks in and they are faced with choices they need guidance with. I reduced my in-office hours to six per day so I could be there when they got home from school, got them going on homework and talked to them about their days. It didn't avoid all the problems, but it established close relationships so they knew they could talk to me about anything if they wanted.
I absolutely support women who choose to stay home and raise their children and manage the household. I would hope that they also respect my choice to work while I raised my children. As women, we are lucky to have choices that our 1950's moms never had.
I became a SAHM after Glow jr. was born, and after six months I was ready to slash my wrists out of boredom. I love my kids; I think they are the two greatest creatures God has ever made, but I was not cut out for a life where my only conversations were about poop and Barney the Dinosaur.
My mother was an extremely bright woman. She would be running a Fortune 500 company if she had been born with XY chromosomes. But she was a southern girl who majored in Home Economics in college (because the only other real options were Education and Nursing, neither of which interested her), and dropped out of college to marry my wonderful dad after he graduated and got his commission in the Army. She has never had a full-time job in her life, but still managed to rise up the ranks of her organization even as a part-timer while raising five kids.
I feel bad for the women who came of age in the 40's through the 60's. Modern conveniences made housework a part-time job. The earlier ones likely had important responsibilities during the war, and once it was over, were told to go home and make babies so that the men could have their jobs. Many of them had great educations and sharp minds that were completely going to waste. No wonder there were so many housewives who were hooked on pills or booze. Their doctor's answer to their depression was to drug them up and send them back to their husbands.
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When my oldest child was 4 months old, told my wife it was decision time, either she had to go back to work or I had to get a second job. She said that she would go crazy if she had to stay home. So, for the last 20+ years, my days off from the fire department have been spent as a SAHM. Except on days after being up all night at a fire, it is easy. I do all of the parent stuff. I just laugh at the mom-blog stuff.
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I became a SAHM after Glow jr. was born, and after six months I was ready to slash my wrists out of boredom. I love my kids; I think they are the two greatest creatures God has ever made, but I was not cut out for a life where my only conversations were about poop and Barney the Dinosaur.
My mother was an extremely bright woman. She would be running a Fortune 500 company if she had been born with XY chromosomes. But she was a southern girl who majored in Home Economics in college (because the only other real options were Education and Nursing, neither of which interested her), and dropped out of college to marry my wonderful dad after he graduated and got his commission in the Army. She has never had a full-time job in her life, but still managed to rise up the ranks of her organization even as a part-timer while raising five kids.
I feel bad for the women who came of age in the 40's through the 60's. Modern conveniences made housework a part-time job. The earlier ones likely had important responsibilities during the war, and once it was over, were told to go home and make babies so that the men have their jobs. Many of them had great educations and sharp minds that were completely going to waste. No wonder there were so many housewives who were hooked on pills or booze. Their doctor's answer to their depression was to drug them up and send them back to their husbands.
Chick, you sure we're NOT related? My wife was Editor and Chief of two newsletters and founded a financial services magazine in the 1990s. When we adopted our two children, she took maternity leave to travel to get them (overseas) and then worked for three months from home.
When she went back to commuting, she was tugged in two worlds -- between our children and her career. She did both very well, but the SAHMs in our neighborhood were, candidly horrible. And, the parking lot mafia at school gave Catholicism a very bad reputation due to their mean-spirited gossip, often targeted at the career women who did not live up to their expectation of "volunteering" and "contributing" to school life. When you did volunteer, if you were not part of the SAHM club in a particular grade, you were ostracized.
My wife ended up building a free lance writing business when her job was shifted to New York more than a decade ago and did very well at that too.
Incidentally, my Mom was probably like your's. She had the XX, five children in a row and was both at-home and an educator. She developed the kindergarten at our parish. Wrote the kindergarten program that initially became the basis for the kindergarten program in our Diocesan School System and was later one of the core documents used in setting up a kindergarten program by the Department of Public Instruction for our home state.
All six of my parents children ended up with degrees (four from Marquette). All have been gainfully employed for years and not a divorce among us!
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When my oldest child was 4 months old, told my wife it was decision time, either she had to go back to work or I had to get a second job. She said that she would go crazy if she had to stay home. So, for the last 20+ years, my days off from the fire department have been spent as a SAHM. Except on days after being up all night at a fire, it is easy. I do all of the parent stuff. I just laugh at the mom-blog stuff.
Yeah, twice a week my wife works late so I pick up the kid, do all the typical parent stuff for a 6 month old, cook dinner(sometimes poorly), and generally keep the place from burning down until the wife comes home. I love it, good chance to bond with the kid and it's important to me(not sure why at this point) that he sees that there isn't stuff that daddy does and mommy does but stuff that his parents do.
Has been a bit eye opening in the outside world how baked in the gender roles still are though. The wife had to work one Saturday so I was flying solo with the child and didn't have much planned so asked her to give me a list of stuff we needed for a grocery/Target run. Me and the kid are tooling around in Target picking up stuff, he's getting the usual attention because he's adorable. At some point a woman in her 40s I would guess comes up and wants to make faces at him, etc then turns to me and casually says "oh it's really nice that your wife let you out with him". I just stood there for a moment and finally said "yeah I know especially how I sometimes forget to breath and all" then walked away. Look I get that my wife is capable of a lot more than me generally and a better person specifically but it just annoyed me to no end the implication that somehow being a dad predetermines that you are somehow less capable of taking care of a kid than the mom is.
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I used to get the 'oh, you're babysitting today' schtick. My standard response was, 'no, I'm parenting.'
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I used to get the 'oh, you're babysitting today' schtick. My standard response was, 'no, I'm parenting.'
I know, right? The thing is, a lot of Dads say that, too, as in "No I can't come over and drink beer in your garage. I am babysitting the kids."
IT'S NOT BABYSITTING IF YOU ARE WATCHING YOUR OWN CHILDREN!!
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I really am enjoying reading these posts. Have to admit that Mom's really do make the world go round. Working or staying at home I think Mom's are the greatest gift on the planet. I miss mine everyday and she has been gone 15 years.
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Yeah, twice a week my wife works late so I pick up the kid, do all the typical parent stuff for a 6 month old, cook dinner(sometimes poorly), and generally keep the place from burning down until the wife comes home. I love it, good chance to bond with the kid and it's important to me(not sure why at this point) that he sees that there isn't stuff that daddy does and mommy does but stuff that his parents do.
Has been a bit eye opening in the outside world how baked in the gender roles still are though. The wife had to work one Saturday so I was flying solo with the child and didn't have much planned so asked her to give me a list of stuff we needed for a grocery/Target run. Me and the kid are tooling around in Target picking up stuff, he's getting the usual attention because he's adorable. At some point a woman in her 40s I would guess comes up and wants to make faces at him, etc then turns to me and casually says "oh it's really nice that your wife let you out with him". I just stood there for a moment and finally said "yeah I know especially how I sometimes forget to breath and all" then walked away. Look I get that my wife is capable of a lot more than me generally and a better person specifically but it just annoyed me to no end the implication that somehow being a dad predetermines that you are somehow less capable of taking care of a kid than the mom is.
Good story eng. When our kids were little chick worked on Saturday morning so every week it was dad's morning. Great times. Loved it. That quickly morphed into Saturday morning sports for the entire family by grade school that extended all the way until they went to MU. Absolutely nothing better than seeing your daughter win her swimming heat or your son kick the winning goal.
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I know, right? The thing is, a lot of Dads say that, too, as in "No I can't come over and drink beer in your garage. I am babysitting the kids."
IT'S NOT BABYSITTING IF YOU ARE WATCHING YOUR OWN CHILDREN!!
I've already gotten the "oh so who's watching the kid" question a number of times when I've said something about the wife having an event or having to work or whatever. Good times.
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I've already gotten the "oh so who's watching the kid" question a number of times when I've said something about the wife having an event or having to work or whatever. Good times.
I get that one a lot too. I usually respond with, "Eh, I'm sure they'll be fine by themselves."
A couple others...
- My kids have Field Day at school on Friday and one of the "room moms" just sent out a reminder about it and added: "If any moms are around that day, you're welcome to stop by to watch the games!" Apparently dads aren't welcome.
- My wife and I flex our hours at work - I go in early while she handles mornings, then she gets home later while I handle early evenings. As a result, I cook dinner most nights. It amazes me how many people seemed completely baffled by this concept or make jokes about how we must order pizza a lot. I usually just smile, but want to say is "Actually, I'm a f-ing adult so I'm fully capable of cooking a meal."
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And, the parking lot mafia at school gave Catholicism a very bad reputation due to their mean-spirited gossip,
They are everywhere.
I described them with the term "the committee of 'Oh My God'". From a David Baerwald song, if I recall correctly.
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I get that one a lot too. I usually respond with, "Eh, I'm sure they'll be fine by themselves."
A couple others...
- My kids have Field Day at school on Friday and one of the "room moms" just sent out a reminder about it and added: "...
My wife is a Speech/Language Pathologist for the Public school system in a neighboring city. So while she gets a ton of days off, she doesn't have the flexibility of when those days come like I do. So when there was a field day where parental involvement was required I would take a vacation day and help out and run an event or two. I also chaperoned field trips when he was asked to supply a parent for that duty. Doing that sort of stuff was fun for me. I don't recall and event where I wasn't the only dad, but I also don't remember any wise-crack comments from the other Moms.
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I'm (hopefully) a ways off of kids myself but my mom never stayed at home but didn't sent me to day care either. I think it was a combination of my aunt or a family friend watching me until I went to some sort of pre-k at the YMCA. Both of my parents are teachers as well so i never needed after school care. Don't think I turned out any worse for it.
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When my wife used to travel more for work, she would be gone a weekend or so every other month. I loved those weekends. I'd order in pizza, buy some ice cream and rent some goofy 80s movie that I knew they'd like. Maybe get a six pack of some good beer and get buzzed up while playing video games with them. It really was awesome.
And my wife never cooks when I travel either.
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I'm (hopefully) a ways off of kids myself but my mom never stayed at home but didn't sent me to day care either. I think it was a combination of my aunt or a family friend watching me until I went to some sort of pre-k at the YMCA. Both of my parents are teachers as well so i never needed after school care. Don't think I turned out any worse for it.
We'll be the judge of that young Chitown.