MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MattVelazquez on May 18, 2016, 09:00:03 PM
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Wojciechowski not anxious to fill roster spot
On Wednesday morning, 6-foot-9 Canadian forward Kalif Young announced that he will play college basketball at Providence in the fall. Heading into that announcement, Marquette was the other finalist that the three-star recruit was considering.
Source: Wojciechowski not anxious to fill roster spot (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/380045341.html)
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Wojciechowski not anxious to fill roster spot
On Wednesday morning, 6-foot-9 Canadian forward Kalif Young announced that he will play college basketball at Providence in the fall. Heading into that announcement, Marquette was the other finalist that the three-star recruit was considering.
Source: Wojciechowski not anxious to fill roster spot (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/380045341.html)
I guess he is not worried about it.
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I guess he is not worried about it.
And he shouldn't be.
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And he shouldn't be.
I agree he doesn't need to be worried about this year's team. I am personally worried about the 17-18 squad's post situation
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Young only helped us after the upcoming season and in a depth crisis due to fouls or injury as a body to throw out there this season.
If we want to get amped up over the scholie the only "immediate" help would have been Gill and we didn't get that. If the Ellenson portion of this were removed the angst would be minimal right now.
Maybe I'm just drinking kool aid but I think there is something to be said about Young on the roster forcing us to play two different styles depending on if he was on the court or not.
We'll see what this season brings but I see no reason to change my believe that we will make the post season this year.
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To me it always was about the year after. I had no idea how good Young can be, but if you gave him a scholarship this year that was one less to hand out next year. So was the bird in the bush (Young) better than what you could get with the scholarship in next year's class? I guess it depends on how good a recruiter Wojo is.
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Cutting Wally and going a man short does not seem to make a lot of sense to me. But I trust Wojo knows what he is doing.
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Gotta say, I would have been intrigued by Wally and Cohen duking it out for minutes at the 4. If one of them took the next step (can still be Cohen), they would be serviceable in that slot and fit well with a team that should like to run. In fact, I actually like the prospect of Cohen filling out that 20-year old frame a little more in the offseason and perhaps getting a little more crafty around the rim. Obviously, not a prototypical 4, but he may surprise.
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Wojo and this program is a mess. You cut a kid like Wally who could contribute next year bc you are targeting two other PFs and you miss on both. Meanwhile you cut all ties with the Ellenson family after Hank had one of the most memorable frosh seasons in history. Very disappointing.
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Wojo and this program is a mess. You cut a kid like Wally who could contribute next year bc you are targeting two other PFs and you miss on both. Meanwhile you cut all ties with the Ellenson family after Hank had one of the most memorable frosh seasons in history. Very disappointing.
Just win baby?
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Just win baby?
Unfortunately we haven’t been doing enough WINNING lately. Season tickets are down, student interest is down, but HEY…Wojo is a really nice guy, plays by the rules etc etc and Lovell likes him…
Make mubb great again!
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Unfortunately we haven’t been doing enough WINNING lately. Season tickets are down, student interest is down, but HEY…Wojo is a really nice guy, plays by the rules etc etc and Lovell likes him…
Make mubb great again!
Thanks Drumpf.
Considering where the program was when Wojo took over and what he's accomplished I'm more than comfortable saying in Wojo I trust. If he doesn't get a post season bid this next season then we need to start taking a more jaundiced look at things, but not before.
And the program is far from a mess....it's probably in the best shape from a culture, academic, and engagement prospective than it's been in 10 years. Assuming the talent grows as should be expected there are a lot of greats days ahead for the program.
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Thanks Drumpf.
Considering where the program was when Wojo took over and what he's accomplished I'm more than comfortable saying in Wojo I trust. If he doesn't get a post season bid this next season then we need to start taking a more jaundiced look at things, but not before.
And the program is far from a mess....it's probably in the best shape from a culture, academic, and engagement prospective than it's been in 10 years. Assuming the talent grows as should be expected there are a lot of greats days ahead for the program.
You've got a lot shorter drive eng.
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You've got a lot shorter drive eng.
Very true, but I'm going to have a 1 year old to wrangle at the game so......samesies?
All kidding aside, do you feel the program is on an upward or downward trend? Your response would seem to imply that the value prop of the program is lower now than it has been in the past.
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Very true, but I'm going to have a 1 year old to wrangle at the game so......samesies?
All kidding aside, do you feel the program is on an upward or downward trend? Your response would seem to imply that the value prop of the program is lower now than it has been in the past.
There is much good about the current regime but unless it begins articulating in wins it is all masturbation.
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Filling a spot just to fill a spot is not a good decision IMO. Would say that in year three of a regime that really should be a thing of the past and not happening now. Obviously Wojo must feel very secure in his job and does not feel the need to sign guys he does not want.
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There is much good about the current regime but unless it begins articulating in wins it is all masturbation.
I question Wojo's ability to recruit. Yes he had a respectable class's the last two years but you knew that Henry might be a one and done player, so you had a year or
more to find a replacement and he did not. Stan Johnson has done his job, but not sure about the other assistants. MU will be a bubble NCAA team next year, they
should be fun to watch but might get murdered inside. What is sad is that, they could not find somebody to fill a gaping hole so far. They still have time, but the window is closing fast.
2017 will be a telling year as of now they have one big and that is it. Lot's of playing time for anybody to see. Need at least 2 bigs, maybe 3. But one big has to be able to start right away at the 4 or 5. I am still not a believer that Matt Heldt is the answer, prove me wrong big fella.
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Wojo and this program is a mess. You cut a kid like Wally who could contribute next year bc you are targeting two other PFs and you miss on both. Meanwhile you cut all ties with the Ellenson family after Hank had one of the most memorable frosh seasons in history. Very disappointing.
Last month, Wojo landed a stud guard who reclassified so he could play at Marquette immediately. You write nothing. Wojo misses out on an unheralded Canuck and you're writing the program is a mess. Clown.
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Very true, but I'm going to have a 1 year old to wrangle at the game so......samesies?
All kidding aside, do you feel the program is on an upward or downward trend? Your response would seem to imply that the value prop of the program is lower now than it has been in the past.
Eng, I feel like the program is on an upward tick. We're running cleaner and better program than a few years back. I suppose the question is how much incline we're on because right now we are still at an 'entirely unacceptable' level. If it's a 2 degree up bubble, that's not good enough. We're headed to fewer than 10,000 season tickets this year I suspect. And my hope is that it doesn't become like watching the Packers when they had no left tackle last year and I was screaming at the TV to get ARodg out before he ended up hurt. It'll be like that this year if Luke gets hurt. With one or two notable exceptions (NY tourney, beating Bucky), we haven't played meaningful basketball since Davidson/Butler. Heck, I beat cancer since then.
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Wojo must feel very secure in his job and does not feel the need to sign guys he does not want.
Goose
I would much prefer he feels the need to sign the guys he does want.
I have a bad feeling about the next few years. A very bad feeling.
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Wojo and this program is a mess. You cut a kid like Wally who could contribute next year bc you are targeting two other PFs and you miss on both. Meanwhile you cut all ties with the Ellenson family after Hank had one of the most memorable frosh seasons in history. Very disappointing.
That's not why Wally was "cut", but sure.
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That's not why Wally was "cut", but sure.
Really? Enlighten us.
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Unfortunately we haven’t been doing enough WINNING lately. Season tickets are down, student interest is down, but HEY…Wojo is a really nice guy, plays by the rules etc etc and Lovell likes him…
Make mubb great again!
Tickets down across the nation, winning or not.
This is a university first, not a minor league pro sports franchise.
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Wojo and this program is a mess. You cut a kid like Wally who could contribute next year bc you are targeting two other PFs and you miss on both. Meanwhile you cut all ties with the Ellenson family after Hank had one of the most memorable frosh seasons in history. Very disappointing.
Do you know all the particulars on what went down?
Nope
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What MU needs is a slump buster. Is Mount Saint Mary available?
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Wojo and this program is a mess. You cut a kid like Wally who could contribute next year bc you are targeting two other PFs and you miss on both. Meanwhile you cut all ties with the Ellenson family after Hank had one of the most memorable frosh seasons in history. Very disappointing.
Peeps here are going to roast you. But I believe the exact same as you.
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You can disagree with how it went down. That's your prerogative. But I don't think Wally would make much of an impact if he was on the roster this season.
He's 22 years old and has 4 years of major college experience under his belt. An incredible athlete for sure, and a high-energy guy. But there's a reason Wally has only played in 47 games in all that time — he's just not that good of a basketball player.
His career averages: 7.7 mpg, 1.9 ppg and 1.8 rpg, with an offensive rating below 100. Those are almost the exact same numbers he posted in Big East conference play this past season (7.3 mpg, 1.9 ppg, 1.6 rpg). I'll leave it to someone better qualified than me to break down advanced stats. But it seems pretty clear he's shown little or no improvement — suggesting he's reached his ceiling. At this point, there's no reason to believe he deserves more court time or will play any better.
A couple points and rebounds a game is a negligible contribution — especially for a fifth-year senior. Hardly a difference maker. Better to give the practice reps and game minutes to players like Sacar or Sam who still have years to develop and improve.
Just my two cents. But I'm not worried about the current state or future of the program.
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Peeps here are going to roast you. But I believe the exact same as you.
You think the program is a mess? That's a strong statement.
Can you list the obvious reasons why. I mean, if it is a mess, than the reasons have to be obvious to everyone, yes?
As for Wally, I don't like it for a number of reasons, but I wouldn't translate that into the program is a complete mess. That's a leap of substantial distance not backed by evidence. Unless you wish to provide some.
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No worries, Wojo is gone in three years either to Duke or the unemployment line.
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Peeps here are going to roast you. But I believe the exact same as you.
Same here, Wojo is in over his head. He needs to figure this whole thing out pretty quick, the program is slip, slip, slipping away.
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This will get fun. Honey, is it too early for popcorn?
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No worries, Wojo is gone in three years either to Duke or the unemployment line.
So within the next 3 years we will either have 2 NCAA Tournament Championships or we will have gone from a 20 win season with a bunch of freshman regressing over 3 years to a 10 win team with a bunch of seniors? And if it's the latter, a guy who spent 20 years next to one of the greatest college basketball coaches in the history of the game, winning 2 National Titles and helping recruit a 3rd class that won a National Title, and spent 5 years running his own program will not be able to land an assistant coaching job anywhere?
The crazies are out in full force, folks!
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We haven't had any meaningful wins on the court in Wojo's first two years, but you have to give him at least this year to make the NCAA tournament before the pitchforks come out.
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We haven't had any meaningful wins on the court in Wojo's first two years, but you have to give him at least this year to make the NCAA tournament before the pitchforks come out.
Now you're just talking stupid. We beat to Top 10 Providence team on THEIR court. We beat the national runner-up (Bucky) on THEIR court. We won the holiday tournament in New York matching up against the #1 pick in this year's NBA draft. Yeah, talk some more.
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We haven't had any meaningful wins on the court in Wojo's first two years, but you have to give him at least this year to make the NCAA tournament before the pitchforks come out.
We haven't? Beating Wisconsin at Wisconsin? Beating Providence twice this year. Beating Butler. All four were NCAA tournament participants. Define meaningful.
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Same here, Wojo is in over his head. He needs to figure this whole thing out pretty quick, the program is slip, slip, slipping away.
I read stuff like this and I have to think heavy sarcasm, just forgot the teal. Then, I read it again and think he believes this 100%. Honestly don't know....you serious, you playing?
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you have to give him at least this year to make the NCAA tournament before the pitchforks come out.
Judging a first-time head coach on the basis of two seasons sounds ludicrous to me. But nobody HAS to give Wojo anything. College basketball fans (and sports fans in general) are rarely known for their patience or objectivity. Wojo, like every coach, will have to prove himself. And based on what I know about him, he's probably just fine with that.
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Dean Smith 12-12 in his THIRD year at UNC. Obviously in over his head. Program was slip-slip-slipping away. Shoulda been fired.
Coach K 10-17 in his second season followed by 11-17 in his third at Duke. And he had 5 years experience as head coach at Army. Obviously in WAY over his head. Program doomed. Shoulda never been hired by Duke in the first place.
Jay Wright 15-16 in his second season followed by 18-17 in his third season at Nova. And he had 7 years experience as head coach at Hofstra. Obviously in way, way, WAY over his head. Program shoulda been canceled, and he should be a middle-school assistant coach now.
I could go on all day.
Wojo has completed two seasons as coach. The team dramatically improved in Year 2, was mostly fun to watch and had several outstanding victories. He just landed his second straight top-20 recruiting class.
Plus, he has a new contract extension, Marquette leadership clearly likes him, and he ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
Some people need to get an effen grip.
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Dean Smith 12-12 in his THIRD year at UNC. Obviously in over his head. Program was slip-slip-slipping away. Shoulda been fired.
Coach K 10-17 in his second season followed by 11-17 in his third at Duke. And he had 5 years experience as head coach at Army. Obviously in WAY over his head. Program doomed. Shoulda never been hired by Duke in the first place.
Jay Wright 15-16 in his second season followed by 18-17 in his third season at Nova. And he had 7 years experience as head coach at Hofstra. Obviously in way, way, WAY over his head. Program shoulda been canceled, and he should be a middle-school assistant coach now.
I could go on all day.
Wojo has completed two seasons as coach. The team dramatically improved in Year 2, was mostly fun to watch and had several outstanding victories. He just landed his second straight top-20 recruiting class.
Plus, he has a new contract extension, Marquette leadership clearly likes him, and he ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
Some people need to get an effen grip.
Agree with everything here. But you're using logic again emotion — and emotion will win in a blowout every time.
Fear. Worry. Despair. Anger. Disgust. Sadness. Terror. Hate. Doubt. Disappointment. Rage. Anxiety. Contempt. For a large number of sports fans, this pretty well covers the range of feelings they have for their "favorite" teams most of the time.
An old roommate during the late 90s was a big Chicago Bulls fan. Jordan was on route to his 5th and 6th career NBA championships. There should have been no better time to be a fan. But I'm not sure he enjoyed a single moment. Watching games with him on TV, he'd worry that the Bulls would blow an 18-point lead. (They never did that I saw.) One loss in a playoff series meant the team was done for. I think he felt more relieved to see his team win than actually excited.
This isn't to suggest that you give up on trying to make a logical argument. But just try to understand the mindset of who's on the other side. It's like seeing reality through some kind of emotional warp field.
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Dean Smith 12-12 in his THIRD year at UNC. Obviously in over his head. Program was slip-slip-slipping away. Shoulda been fired.
Coach K 10-17 in his second season followed by 11-17 in his third at Duke. And he had 5 years experience as head coach at Army. Obviously in WAY over his head. Program doomed. Shoulda never been hired by Duke in the first place.
Jay Wright 15-16 in his second season followed by 18-17 in his third season at Nova. And he had 7 years experience as head coach at Hofstra. Obviously in way, way, WAY over his head. Program shoulda been canceled, and he should be a middle-school assistant coach now.
I could go on all day.
Wojo has completed two seasons as coach. The team dramatically improved in Year 2, was mostly fun to watch and had several outstanding victories. He just landed his second straight top-20 recruiting class.
Plus, he has a new contract extension, Marquette leadership clearly likes him, and he ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
Some people need to get an effen grip.
I am not on the anti-Wojo train but I am deeply concerned about how competitive we can be this year and especially the season after. Our roster is markedly unbalanced and I fear for the next few seasons.
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I am not on the anti-Wojo train but I am deeply concerned about how competitive we can be this year and especially the season after. Our roster is markedly unbalanced and I fear for the next few seasons.
The program is in good shape.
We just won 20 games. We have four double digit scorers returning. The first recruiting class performed well. We will have a first round draft pick. The incoming recruiting class appears to be strong. We are actively recruiting solid prospects in the out years and have one already in place with an NLI who is on a mission. We have two transfers coming in with proven success . We are getting a new arena. The coach received a contract extension. So we pretty much have the ingredients for continued success this year and into the future.
Now it is up to the Coaching staff and the players to continue to perform up to MU expectations and tradition. I am pretty confident that will occur. We are doing as well as we can on the things we can control. Injuries are not controllable and are always a risk factor for any team.
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Dean Smith 12-12 in his THIRD year at UNC. Obviously in over his head. Program was slip-slip-slipping away. Shoulda been fired.
Coach K 10-17 in his second season followed by 11-17 in his third at Duke. And he had 5 years experience as head coach at Army. Obviously in WAY over his head. Program doomed. Shoulda never been hired by Duke in the first place.
Jay Wright 15-16 in his second season followed by 18-17 in his third season at Nova. And he had 7 years experience as head coach at Hofstra. Obviously in way, way, WAY over his head. Program shoulda been canceled, and he should be a middle-school assistant coach now.
I could go on all day.
Wojo has completed two seasons as coach. The team dramatically improved in Year 2, was mostly fun to watch and had several outstanding victories. He just landed his second straight top-20 recruiting class.
Plus, he has a new contract extension, Marquette leadership clearly likes him, and he ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
Some people need to get an effen grip.
For every Coach K or Dean Smith there are dozens of coaches who got off to shaky starts and never got their program going and then were fired. So that argument does little for me. It's akin to the argument that because we struck gold with Gardner we will again with Kostas A.
Your second point that we showed a great deal of improvement in year 2 and have another highly rated incoming class, however, is a strong argument for feeling bullish about Wojo. If we take even a small step forward this season (NIT or squeak into the NCAA), we'll have real evidence of progress.
I do wonder if we'll take that small step, however. If last year was more about Henry than we think it is (like some players exceling because of opponents concentrating on Henry), our imbalanced roster for the next two seasons leave us with the potential of us spinning our wheels and not taking that next step.
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For every Coach K or Dean Smith there are dozens of coaches who got off to shaky starts and never got their program going and then were fired. So that argument does little for me. It's akin to the argument that because we struck gold with Gardner we will again with Kostas A.
Your second point that we showed a great deal of improvement in year 2 and have another highly rated incoming class, however, is a strong argument for feeling bullish about Wojo. If we take even a small step forward this season (NIT or squeak into the NCAA), we'll have real evidence of progress.
I do wonder if we'll take that small step, however. If last year was more about Henry than we think it is (like some players exceling because of opponents concentrating on Henry), our imbalanced roster for the next two seasons leave us with the potential of us spinning our wheels and not taking that next step.
We are going to be an improved team this year. We have significant point production returning and are adding proven producers as well.
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I am not on the anti-Wojo train but I am deeply concerned about how competitive we can be this year and especially the season after. Our roster is markedly unbalanced and I fear for the next few seasons.
Why don't you think we can be competitive this year?
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Why don't you think we can be competitive this year?
Lack of depth down low. I think people are underestimating how much we will miss Ellenson. I hate to think what will happen if we lose Fischer to fouls or injury.
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Lack of depth down low. I think people are underestimating how much we will miss Ellenson. I hate to think what will happen if we lose Fischer to fouls or injury.
We will definitely lose Fischer to fouls in games, I doubt his fouling tendencies will change next year. I'm not optimistic about the next couple years either, Heldt is a big part of the equation and I don't think that's a good thing.
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I think Heldt is better than people think.
We want to get project bigs in here, and then when we get them, we don't have the patience enough to let them...you know...be projects.
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I think Heldt is better than people think.
We want to get project bigs in here, and then when we get them, we don't have the patience enough to let them...you know...be projects.
Wouldn't the definition of a project big be someone who isn't playing starter minutes until JR/SR year. My personal angst has nothing to do with Heldt and everything to do with him having to carry the full load too soon. If you have projects - you should also have some depth.
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Then go small and be fast.
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Love how weird people are. We get Howard and Bailey and Reinhardt and everyone is excited!
Then we cut a guy who averages 1.9 ppg and miss on a Canadian who many admitted would not be a factor and would be a Project and all of a sudden we are a D3 team at best.
Idiots.
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For every Coach K or Dean Smith there are dozens of coaches who got off to shaky starts and never got their program going and then were fired. So that argument does little for me. It's akin to the argument that because we struck gold with Gardner we will again with Kostas A.
Your second point that we showed a great deal of improvement in year 2 and have another highly rated incoming class, however, is a strong argument for feeling bullish about Wojo. If we take even a small step forward this season (NIT or squeak into the NCAA), we'll have real evidence of progress.
I do wonder if we'll take that small step, however. If last year was more about Henry than we think it is (like some players excelling because of opponents concentrating on Henry), our imbalanced roster for the next two seasons leave us with the potential of us spinning our wheels and not taking that next step.
In seven years of Scoop experience that's as well reasoned a debunking of an argument that I would tend to ascribe to as I've seen. Thank you.
Of course, it doesn't go as far as to make the opposite argument. It just sets the record straight - and I believe that this was your point - that regarding Wojo the jury is still out.
I continue to be bullish on Wojo and believe that he won't be a failed hire based on his previous experience as a contributer to one of the very best college programs, and also my evaluation that the steps he is taking to build Marquette's program are solid and will lead to a sustained building of the program.
Keefe's sobering concerns notwithstanding, I am optimistic for the next two years. It would have been reassuring to see Matt Heldt who was much more highly regarded as a high school senior than Kalif Young display more of his talent during his freshman year. Maybe without Henry's ability to backup up Luke, he would have. Next year, I hope to see the jump in his production which is typically expected from a player during his sophomore year.
Next year's recruiting will be crucial for Wojo. With Luke graduating, a minimum of two quality big men would seem to be a necessity. That will be a big test regarding the future of the program under Wojo's guidance.
On the other hand, It's hard not to take notice that under Wojo there has, in fact, been a better big man situation than that which existed under both Crean and Buzz.
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Last month, Wojo landed a stud guard who reclassified so he could play at Marquette immediately. You write nothing. Wojo misses out on an unheralded Canuck and you're writing the program is a mess. Clown.
While I am happy with the Howard commitment and think he'll have a great career in blue and gold, he's still a young guard on a VERY guard heavy team. Not sure how much of an impact he'll have on the team next year and the team NEEDS to win next year. The fact is that this team needed a power forward to commit and Wojo missed all while cutting Wally and ruining that relationship... disappointing.
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Peeps here are going to roast you. But I believe the exact same as you.
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they can "roast" me all they want... do you think I care. It's the truth. Clearly some of the posters can't handle the truth. Wally was cut, released...whatever you want to call it to make room for another player... and that player never came. Wojo treated the ellenson family horribly after using Henry, a top 10 pick, for a year. OH! and he still managed to piss the NIT with a top 10 pick and plenty of surrounding talent.
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We haven't? Beating Wisconsin at Wisconsin? Beating Providence twice this year. Beating Butler. All four were NCAA tournament participants. Define meaningful.
You're right. Those were nice wins! Good for the resume, HOWEVER, he didn't build off of them... instead he lost to Belmont, Depaul and an average creighton team at HOME. not acceptable. you win those games and you might make the tourney.
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Big man's game, ai na?
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I truly believe this team can make the tournament this upcoming season. They have the talent. The cut-throat treatment of Wally is just not acceptable. Wojo hasn't won enough here to pull that type of move. It's bush league and you all know it.
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I truly believe this team can make the tournament this upcoming season. They have the talent. The cut-throat treatment of Wally is just not acceptable. Wojo hasn't won enough here to pull that type of move. It's bush league and you all know it.
Well...he did just pull that type of move.
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While I am happy with the Howard commitment and think he'll have a great career in blue and gold, he's still a young guard on a VERY guard heavy team. Not sure how much of an impact he'll have on the team next year and the team NEEDS to win next year. The fact is that this team needed a power forward to commit and Wojo missed all while cutting Wally and ruining that relationship... disappointing.
Al
Can I persuade you to come over to the Kostas camp as a potential solution?
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Al
Can I persuade you to come over to the Kostas camp as a potential solution?
Leave it to others to undercut your credibility, don't do it yourself.
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I truly believe this team can make the tournament this upcoming season. They have the talent. The cut-throat treatment of Wally is just not acceptable. Wojo hasn't won enough here to pull that type of move. It's bush league and you all know it.
Thanks for contributing, Holly.
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Lack of depth down low. I think people are underestimating how much we will miss Ellenson. I hate to think what will happen if we lose Fischer to fouls or injury.
There is plenty of talent to overcome some of the limitations we have. Is it certain, definitely not, but not all is lost.
We will play different than how we played with Ellenson...might result in us being better, it might not. IMHO I think we will have better results this coming year than last year. Not because Ellenson wasn't great, but because as a whole we will be a better team(both experience and talent).
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I truly believe this team can make the tournament this upcoming season. They have the talent. The cut-throat treatment of Wally is just not acceptable. Wojo hasn't won enough here to pull that type of move. It's bush league and you all know it.
I guess you're dropping the "just win, baby" shtick...?
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Leave it to others to undercut your credibility, don't do it yourself.
I am now starting to appreciate the missionary work the Jesuits did.
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Gotta ax da Wojo doubters, you'd ya rather have instead? Don't give me dat chit like Sean, Archie, Shaka, Marshall, or JC himself. Dey ain't comin'. Y'all, this isn't 1977. Look, I'd like ta see da program be in da Top 10 each year. Hell, its tough on us old farts who were livin' large wit Al, Hank, and Rick. But, reality is reality. All we are sayin' is, give Steve a chance, ai na?
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I am now starting to appreciate the missionary work the Jesuits did.
Good humor under adversity on Scoop is a rare thing. Keep on truckin', bro.
(http://logos-vector.com/images/logo/xxl/1/8/3/183408/Keep_On_Truckin_cfdb4_450x450.png)
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I truly believe this team can make the tournament this upcoming season. They have the talent. The cut-throat treatment of Wally is just not acceptable. Wojo hasn't won enough here to pull that type of move. It's bush league and you all know it.
I did not like the dismissal of Wally from the team because I can't believe his dedication to the high jump could possibly be a surprise to anyone, but I don't dislike it more because we didn't pull in a replacement. For all we know, Wally had to go for team morale. Maybe Wojo was worried that some guys would say to themselves (or maybe some guys were actually already saying), "I have to do all the summer stuff while he jumps around in track meets and he is going to potentially play over me (or over my friend or at all)?"
Bottom line is that we don't know exactly why Wally was not asked back to the basketball team. I agree that to an outsider it may look bad, but the fact that we haven't filled the scholarship actually makes it seem less cut-throat. If we pulled in another guy it would seem more obvious that we dumped Wally to make room for someone else, like when we dumped Newbill for Wilson.
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I think Heldt is better than people think.
We want to get project bigs in here, and then when we get them, we don't have the patience enough to let them...you know...be projects.
He could be and to be honest it should set up nicely for him to walk into a starting role as a junior. My problem is that MU's size is Heldt and then nobody else. So we're dependent on getting an impact transfer or impact '17 recruit to shore up the front court.
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I agree that comparing Wojo to Smith, K and Wright wasn't necessarily an accurate way to look at things.
It was an insult to Wojo, who has far outperformed all of them at a similar stage of their careers. I mean, not even close.
Seriously, I understand those who are filled with angst. It comes with being a fan.
But the level of angst here is so over the top that I just can't help myself sometimes. And the fact that Wojo simply is NOT on the hot seat means there's nothing anybody can do about it anyway. Unless we have a few more folks who want to chime in with the "he better win this year" threat. The implied "or else" being hollow as hell.
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I truly believe this team can make the tournament this upcoming season. They have the talent. The cut-throat treatment of Wally is just not acceptable. Wojo hasn't won enough here to pull that type of move. It's bush league and you all know it.
Ah, so the Al Davis mantra was "win at all costs unless it comes to cutting a non-value add player from the roster because he wasn't all in with the team"
Got it, thanks
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I am not on the anti-Wojo train but I am deeply concerned about how competitive we can be this year and especially the season after. Our roster is markedly unbalanced and I fear for the next few seasons.
C'mon, Crash.
You've killed terrorists with your bare hands ... but you "fear" what might or might not happen in a basketball game?
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Well...he did just pull that type of move.
exactly my point.... BS move by "Mr. Class"
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I did not like the dismissal of Wally from the team because I can't believe his dedication to the high jump could possibly be a surprise to anyone, but I don't dislike it more because we didn't pull in a replacement. For all we know, Wally had to go for team morale. Maybe Wojo was worried that some guys would say to themselves (or maybe some guys were actually already saying), "I have to do all the summer stuff while he jumps around in track meets and he is going to potentially play over me (or over my friend or at all)?"
Bottom line is that we don't know exactly why Wally was not asked back to the basketball team. I agree that to an outsider it may look bad, but the fact that we haven't filled the scholarship actually makes it seem less cut-throat. If we pulled in another guy it would seem more obvious that we dumped Wally to make room for someone else, like when we dumped Newbill for Wilson.
Wally got the 8th most minutes (almost 15 mpg behind Sandy) on a team that only loses 1 player. So, starting with last year's roster, assume the best case that he's the 7th best returning player. Solid contributor off the bench, right? Except for the fact that...
Transfers Rowsey and Reinhardt have each logged 6x more playing time in their careers. They have years of starting experience between them. They're both better shooters. Simply put, they're both better players than Wally. Oh yeah, and Reinhardt is 6'6" and plays the same position as Wally. With that, Wally drops to the 9th best returning player. Okay, no problem. He could still get some minutes in the regular rotation, unless...
Freshman recruit Sam Hauser enters the Marquette program as a Top 100 prospect and high school state champion. Like Reinhardt, he's 6'6" tall with a good handle and excellent range. Well, how about that, he also plays the exact same position as Wally. Only better. So another drop on the depth chart, this time to 10th. Playing time might still be a possibility, only...
There's returning sophomore Sacar Anim. A former Minnesota state champion and player of the year, Wojo called him the hardest-working player on the team. At 6'5", he could play 2 or even 3 positions. Including the same one as Wally. There's every chance that Sacar leapfrogs Wally on the bench this year, leaving Wally at #11. Hmmm, minutes are really getting hard to come by. And then...
We can't forget about returning sophomore Matt Heldt. At 6'10" and somewhere around 250 pounds, he's got the size to hold his own in the paint and earn some court time in Henry's absence. Probably enough to surpass Wally, who moves down to #12. Is that it? Not quite...
Marquette signs Markus Howard — another Top 100 prospect. While he doesn't play Wally's position, Markus is a better outside shooter and a better player overall. Wally, why don't you slide down to the very end of the bench. You might just get a minute or two when we're blowing out DePaul at home in revenge for last year's loss. A senior night start? We'll see.
The decision for Wally to leave the team seems pretty simple. Even after losing Henry, Marquette has gotten a major injection of new talent. Who would Wally have outplayed? Absolute best case, he's ahead of Hauser, Anim and Heldt — but I don't believe that to be true. At least not this season.
I think Wojo probably laid everything out to Wally something like this, explaining he would be 13th on the depth chart — behind Katin, Sandy, Sacar and Sam at the 3 spot — not 7th as he probably assumed. On top of that, Wally wasn't willing to commit himself to improving his game this spring and summer to prove that he deserves playing time.
It might not have been Wally's decision. I don't pretend to know exactly what happened. And I have no idea what Wojo's thinking in terms of playing style or minutes. But it may just have been the best decision for the team.
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Ah, so the Al Davis mantra was "win at all costs unless it comes to cutting a non-value add player from the roster because he wasn't all in with the team"
Got it, thanks
Don't get it twisted, it's always "just win baby"! However Wojo cut a player who I believe could've been of value next season to sign another PF target and missed on both. Wojo lost, again.
Make MUBB great again!
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Wally got the 8th most minutes (almost 15 mpg behind Sandy) on a team that only loses 1 player. So, starting with last year's roster, assume the best case that he's the 7th best returning player. Solid contributor off the bench, right? Except for the fact that...
Transfers Rowsey and Reinhardt have each logged 6x more playing time in their careers. They have years of starting experience between them. They're both better shooters. Simply put, they're both better players than Wally. Oh yeah, and Reinhardt is 6'6" and plays the same position as Wally. With that, Wally drops to the 9th best returning player. Okay, no problem. He could still get some minutes in the regular rotation, unless...
Freshman recruit Sam Hauser enters the Marquette program as a Top 100 prospect and high school state champion. Like Reinhardt, he's 6'6" tall with a good handle and excellent range. Well, how about that, he also plays the exact same position as Wally. Only better. So another drop on the depth chart, this time to 10th. Playing time might still be a possibility, only...
There's returning sophomore Sacar Anim. A former Minnesota state champion and player of the year, Wojo called him the hardest-working player on the team. At 6'5", he could play 2 or even 3 positions. Including the same one as Wally. There's every chance that Sacar leapfrogs Wally on the bench this year, leaving Wally at #11. Hmmm, minutes are really getting hard to come by. And then...
We can't forget about returning sophomore Matt Heldt. At 6'10" and somewhere around 250 pounds, he's got the size to hold his own in the paint and earn some court time in Henry's absence. Probably enough to surpass Wally, who moves down to #12. Is that it? Not quite...
Marquette signs Markus Howard — another Top 100 prospect. While he doesn't play Wally's position, Markus is a better outside shooter and a better player overall. Wally, why don't you slide down to the very end of the bench. You might just get a minute or two when we're blowing out DePaul at home in revenge for last year's loss. A senior night start? We'll see.
The decision for Wally to leave the team seems pretty simple. Even after losing Henry, Marquette has gotten a major injection of new talent. Who would Wally have outplayed? Absolute best case, he's ahead of Hauser, Anim and Heldt — but I don't believe that to be true. At least not this season.
I think Wojo probably laid everything something like this, suggested he would be 13th on the depth chart — behind Katin, Sandy, Sacar and Sam at the 3 spot — not 7th as he probably assumed. On top of that, he wasn't willing to commit himself to improving his game this spring and summer to prove that he deserves playing time.
It might not have been Wally's decision. I don't pretend to know exactly what happened. And I have no idea what Wojo's thinking in terms of playing style or minutes. But it may just have been the best decision for the team.
I agree with this analysis.
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Don't get it twisted, it's always "just win baby"! However Wojo cut a player who I believe could've been of value next season to sign another PF target and missed on both. Wojo lost, again.
Make MUBB great again!
See Marcus92's excellent post. There is zero evidence that having Wally on the team would have done anything other than eliminate a talking point for the serial dissatisfied Scoopers.
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Wojo and this program is a mess. You cut a kid like Wally who could contribute next year bc you are targeting two other PFs and you miss on both. Meanwhile you cut all ties with the Ellenson family after Hank had one of the most memorable frosh seasons in history. Very disappointing.
Embarrassing.
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You're right. Those were nice wins! Good for the resume, HOWEVER, he didn't build off of them... instead he lost to Belmont, Depaul and an average creighton team at HOME. not acceptable. you win those games and you might make the tourney.
That's what happens when you have the 7th least experienced team in the country. Why is this a surprise? I honestly don't get it. You will win games that make you go wow, and lose games the same way.
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Wojo and this program is a mess. You cut a kid like Wally who could contribute next year bc you are targeting two other PFs and you miss on both. Meanwhile you cut all ties with the Ellenson family after Hank had one of the most memorable frosh seasons in history. Very disappointing.
One Wally was a spot player AT BEST. You are also absolving The Ellesnsons of ANY responsibility for this split. Just because Holly tweeted something doesn't make it so...I'll give Wojo the benefit of the doubt here
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Same here, Wojo is in over his head. He needs to figure this whole thing out pretty quick, the program is slip, slip, slipping away.
maybe he could figure it out with a powerpoint demonstration that blow all the doubters away.
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Wally got the 8th most minutes (almost 15 mpg behind Sandy) on a team that only loses 1 player. So, starting with last year's roster, assume the best case that he's the 7th best returning player. Solid contributor off the bench, right? Except for the fact that...
Transfers Rowsey and Reinhardt have each logged 6x more playing time in their careers. They have years of starting experience between them. They're both better shooters. Simply put, they're both better players than Wally. Oh yeah, and Reinhardt is 6'6" and plays the same position as Wally. With that, Wally drops to the 9th best returning player. Okay, no problem. He could still get some minutes in the regular rotation, unless...
Freshman recruit Sam Hauser enters the Marquette program as a Top 100 prospect and high school state champion. Like Reinhardt, he's 6'6" tall with a good handle and excellent range. Well, how about that, he also plays the exact same position as Wally. Only better. So another drop on the depth chart, this time to 10th. Playing time might still be a possibility, only...
There's returning sophomore Sacar Anim. A former Minnesota state champion and player of the year, Wojo called him the hardest-working player on the team. At 6'5", he could play 2 or even 3 positions. Including the same one as Wally. There's every chance that Sacar leapfrogs Wally on the bench this year, leaving Wally at #11. Hmmm, minutes are really getting hard to come by. And then...
We can't forget about returning sophomore Matt Heldt. At 6'10" and somewhere around 250 pounds, he's got the size to hold his own in the paint and earn some court time in Henry's absence. Probably enough to surpass Wally, who moves down to #12. Is that it? Not quite...
Marquette signs Markus Howard — another Top 100 prospect. While he doesn't play Wally's position, Markus is a better outside shooter and a better player overall. Wally, why don't you slide down to the very end of the bench. You might just get a minute or two when we're blowing out DePaul at home in revenge for last year's loss. A senior night start? We'll see.
The decision for Wally to leave the team seems pretty simple. Even after losing Henry, Marquette has gotten a major injection of new talent. Who would Wally have outplayed? Absolute best case, he's ahead of Hauser, Anim and Heldt — but I don't believe that to be true. At least not this season.
I think Wojo probably laid everything out to Wally something like this, explaining he would be 13th on the depth chart — behind Katin, Sandy, Sacar and Sam at the 3 spot — not 7th as he probably assumed. On top of that, Wally wasn't willing to commit himself to improving his game this spring and summer to prove that he deserves playing time.
It might not have been Wally's decision. I don't pretend to know exactly what happened. And I have no idea what Wojo's thinking in terms of playing style or minutes. But it may just have been the best decision for the team.
Spot on!
What I do not understand is how fans over-look the deference Coach Wojo seemed to give to the entire Ellison family. An exhibition was scheduled so all three brothers could be on the court together. He admitted to letting Henry play and shoot outside even though he was more effective inside. Coach Wojo did all in his power to highlight Henry in the context of his future in the NBA. Henry and Wally were room-mates, which must a unique and wonderful experience. Wally was one of the stars of the track and field team. etc. How much more could one family ask from a major University?
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While I am happy with the Howard commitment and think he'll have a great career in blue and gold, he's still a young guard on a VERY guard heavy team. Not sure how much of an impact he'll have on the team next year and the team NEEDS to win next year.
You will be sure of his impact soon enough.
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Wally got the 8th most minutes (almost 15 mpg behind Sandy) on a team that only loses 1 player. So, starting with last year's roster, assume the best case that he's the 7th best returning player. Solid contributor off the bench, right? Except for the fact that...
Transfers Rowsey and Reinhardt have each logged 6x more playing time in their careers. They have years of starting experience between them. They're both better shooters. Simply put, they're both better players than Wally. Oh yeah, and Reinhardt is 6'6" and plays the same position as Wally. With that, Wally drops to the 9th best returning player. Okay, no problem. He could still get some minutes in the regular rotation, unless...
Freshman recruit Sam Hauser enters the Marquette program as a Top 100 prospect and high school state champion. Like Reinhardt, he's 6'6" tall with a good handle and excellent range. Well, how about that, he also plays the exact same position as Wally. Only better. So another drop on the depth chart, this time to 10th. Playing time might still be a possibility, only...
There's returning sophomore Sacar Anim. A former Minnesota state champion and player of the year, Wojo called him the hardest-working player on the team. At 6'5", he could play 2 or even 3 positions. Including the same one as Wally. There's every chance that Sacar leapfrogs Wally on the bench this year, leaving Wally at #11. Hmmm, minutes are really getting hard to come by. And then...
We can't forget about returning sophomore Matt Heldt. At 6'10" and somewhere around 250 pounds, he's got the size to hold his own in the paint and earn some court time in Henry's absence. Probably enough to surpass Wally, who moves down to #12. Is that it? Not quite...
Marquette signs Markus Howard — another Top 100 prospect. While he doesn't play Wally's position, Markus is a better outside shooter and a better player overall. Wally, why don't you slide down to the very end of the bench. You might just get a minute or two when we're blowing out DePaul at home in revenge for last year's loss. A senior night start? We'll see.
The decision for Wally to leave the team seems pretty simple. Even after losing Henry, Marquette has gotten a major injection of new talent. Who would Wally have outplayed? Absolute best case, he's ahead of Hauser, Anim and Heldt — but I don't believe that to be true. At least not this season.
I think Wojo probably laid everything out to Wally something like this, explaining he would be 13th on the depth chart — behind Katin, Sandy, Sacar and Sam at the 3 spot — not 7th as he probably assumed. On top of that, Wally wasn't willing to commit himself to improving his game this spring and summer to prove that he deserves playing time.
It might not have been Wally's decision. I don't pretend to know exactly what happened. And I have no idea what Wojo's thinking in terms of playing style or minutes. But it may just have been the best decision for the team.
This is exactly correct but it misses the point.
By cutting Wally, it was taken as a strong signal that the coaching staff was highly confident they had another better player lined up. Then Gill and Young went elsewhere.
So now we have an open spot on the team because Wojo misjudged. That was unnecessary. If nothing else Wally would have been an asset in practice, now they don't even have that. At worse, cutting Wally with no one coming in, makes the rest of the team feel Wojo is cut throat, in a not so nice way.
So this is about Wojo misjudging recruits intention, dumping a contributor to last year's team to make room for someone who decided to not attend MU.
And again, the same thing happened last year with Miller and Lee. Big Daddy, who is close to the program, posted that the coaching staff thought they had one or both. They honestly thought it was going to happen. It did not. They could not get either to even make a visit.
Their is a distributing trend of Wojo misjudgment recruits and now it cost Wall his spot when it was not necessary.
Note - I like Wojo, I believe in Wojo. I'm just pointing out a glaring problem and keeps happening.
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This is exactly correct but it misses the point.
By cutting Wally, it was taken as a strong signal that the coaching staff was highly confident they had another better player lined up. Then Gill and Young went elsewhere.
So now we have an open spot on the team because Wojo misjudged. That was unnecessary. If nothing else Wally would have been an asset in practice, now they don't even have that. At worse, cutting Wally with no one coming in, makes the rest of the team feel Wojo is cut throat, in a not so nice way.
So this is about Wojo misjudging recruits intention, dumping a contributor to last year's team to make room for someone who decided to not attend MU.
And again, the same thing happened last year with Miller and Lee. Big Daddy, who is close to the program, posted that the coaching staff thought they had one or both. They honestly thought it was going to happen. It did not. They could not get either to even make a visit.
Their is a distributing trend of Wojo misjudgment recruits and now it cost Wall his spot when it was not necessary.
Note - I like Wojo, I believe in Wojo. I'm just pointing out a glaring problem and keeps happening.
Wojo didn't misjudge anything. You misjudged (and continue to) the situation. Which is nothing new.
It's pretty sad how foolish you'll make yourself look just to get a little attention on a Marquette basketball forum.
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This is exactly correct but it misses the point.
By cutting Wally, it was taken as a strong signal that the coaching staff was highly confident they had another better player lined up. Then Gill and Young went elsewhere.
No it doesn't send that strong signal. That is one of many many possibilities and I have very good reason to believe that that was not the motivation in this case. It was a small element in a more complex situation.
Wojo made the decision for what was in the best interests of the MU family, not the Ellenson family; that is the bottom line.
It just also happened to open a spot that could be used if we could find a good option.
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Wojo didn't misjudge anything. You misjudged (and continue to) the situation. Which is nothing new.
It's pretty sad how foolish you'll make yourself look just to get a little attention on a Marquette basketball forum.
Cutting Wally and leaving the schollie open is a good plan? Face reality, it's a signal of a screw up.
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Cutting Wally and leaving the schollie open is a good plan? Face reality, it's a signal of a screw up.
It's a sign of a recruiting miss. Every coach has them. Why do you make a big deal out of every one of them?
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It's a sign of a recruiting miss. Every coach has them. Why do you make a big deal out of every one of them?
Because other coaches know the process of recruiting is uncertain. They don't cut players to make room and then have nothing. The don't tell people close to the program (Big Daddy) that graduate transfers are looking good and then not only don't they come, they don't even make a visit.
He seems to be counting his chickens before they hatch.
Many here are willing to paper over every flaw because our guy is perfect. See the tortured logic used with Buzz here.
I still like and believe in Wojo. And I was ok with him cutting Wally PROVIDED THAT WAS TO MAKE ROOM FOR SOMEONE BETTER. I'm just willing to point this out about Wojo.
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I think Heldt is better than people think.
We want to get project bigs in here, and then when we get them, we don't have the patience enough to let them...you know...be projects.
i agree 100%. it's like people either have forgotten about him or are just writing him off as the guy who would give either fish or HE a breather(hate the term blow for obvious reasons). he looked awfully poised the little bit he played. wojo et.al. see him practice every day. i am much more comfortable with him as a sophomore than an incoming 3 star freshman.
i loved the hustle of wally but we lose out to an unproven 3 star from the basketball hotbed of canada and we're a mess?
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De-commits, transfers, coaching changes, assistant coaching changes. Lots of stuff to still play out.
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" At worse, cutting Wally with no one coming in, makes the rest of the team feel Wojo is cut throat, in a not so nice way."
i'm glad you qualified this statement heisy and it's probably accurate, but understand, coaches make "cutthroat" decisions every day. it's just that not many, or very few of them are this public. behind the scenes, these guys can be real major league pr1cks. the key is however, there is a fine line between being a pr1ck and making pr1ckly decisions while maintaining the respect of your players. or picking up the turd from the clean end-heyn'er?
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Because other coaches know the process of recruiting is uncertain. They don't cut players to make room and then have nothing. The don't tell people close to the program (Big Daddy) that graduate transfers are looking good and then not only don't they come, they don't even make a visit.
He seems to be counting his chickens before they hatch.
Many here are willing to paper over every flaw because our guy is perfect. See the tortured logic used with Buzz here.
I still like and believe in Wojo. And I was ok with him cutting Wally PROVIDED THAT WAS TO MAKE ROOM FOR SOMEONE BETTER. I'm just willing to point this out about Wojo.
Walter's decision to leave the basketball program had nothing to do with whether another player was joining the program or not. That is your fatal flaw in this situation.
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Walter's decision to leave the basketball program had nothing to do with whether another player was joining the program or not. That is your fatal flaw in this situation.
Your fatal flaw is in thinking it was Wallys idea to leave. Stop protecting Wojo.
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Because other coaches know the process of recruiting is uncertain. They don't cut players to make room and then have nothing. The don't tell people close to the program (Big Daddy) that graduate transfers are looking good and then not only don't they come, they don't even make a visit.
He seems to be counting his chickens before they hatch.
Many here are willing to paper over every flaw because our guy is perfect. See the tortured logic used with Buzz here.
I still like and believe in Wojo. And I was ok with him cutting Wally PROVIDED THAT WAS TO MAKE ROOM FOR SOMEONE BETTER. I'm just willing to point this out about Wojo.
I understand the points you are making here. Let me give you a different side of the issue that you may not have considered.
As you know, because you post on it frequently, Wally is a top level high jumper. What if Wojo decided not to renew Wally's basketball scholarship( that is what actually happened he was not cut) only when he had another bird in the hand. Wojo had no way of knowing when that would happen. What if it happened the weekend Wally was at the NCAA track championships. It would have been a shock to Wally for sure and potentially screwed up the intense focus and preparation he needed to compete for a national championship. How fair would that have been to Wally?
I am not a Wojo Slurper or apologist by any means., but in this case I believe part of the consideration among the coaching staff and administration was that it would be most fair to Wally and best to deliver the bad news up front as part of the regularly scheduled review process. This way he had plenty of time to digest it and move on .
Wally also limited his own options by not being in a position to graduate by the end of the summer.
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I understand the points you are making here. Let me give you a different side of the issue that you may not have considered.
As you know, because you post on it frequently, Wally is a top level high jumper. What if Wojo decided not to renew Wally's basketball scholarship( that is what actually happened he was not cut) only when he had another bird in the hand. Wojo had no way of knowing when that would happen. What if it happened the weekend Wally was at the NCAA track championships. It would have been a shock to Wally for sure and potentially screwed up the intense focus and preparation he needed to compete for a national championship. How fair would that have been to Wally?
I am not a Wojo Slurper or apologist by any means., but in this case I believe part of the consideration among the coaching staff and administration was that it would be most fair to Wally and best to deliver the bad news up front as part of the regularly scheduled review process. This way he had plenty of time to digest it and move on .
Wally also limited his own options by not being in a position to graduate by the end of the summer.
This is a reach as the NCAA meet is mid-June. Plenty of time to wait until someone actually committed and then drop the hammer on him before the big track meets.
Also Wally would probably be more understanding if someone better committed and he was odd man out as opposed to, "go away because an unused scholarship is better than having you on this team next year." That effectively what Wojo is saying.
Given your rationalization, Wojo picked the worst possible option.
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And I agree that Wally should be able to graduate by the end of summer school so he could grad transfer but apparently he cannot. That is on him.
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Your fatal flaw is in thinking it was Wallys idea to leave. Stop protecting Wojo.
And your fatal flaw his in assuming Wojo cut Wally. As Marcus92 indicated above, it may have been nothing more than Wojo telling Wally he wasn't going to get the minutes he expected. Likewise, Holly's tweet might simply have been about Wojo telling Wally his minutes were going to go down, and may not have had anything to do with Wally being "cut."
Unless you were part of the conversation and want to tell us differently…
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And your fatal flaw his in assuming Wojo cut Wally. As Marcus92 indicated above, it may have been nothing more than Wojo telling Wally he wasn't going to get the minutes he expected. Likewise, Holly's tweet might simply have been about Wojo telling Wally his minutes were going to go down, and may not have had anything to do with Wally being "cut."
Unless you were part of the conversation and want to tell us differently…
Yes, let's torture logic to protect Wojo. How can he tell Wally what his minutes are going to be in November in March? Does he have a crystal ball that tells him who is going to commit, transfer out, injuries, Wally progression, everyone else's progression? That is a conversation you have in October, not in March a few weeks after the season ended.
The simplest explanation is the most reasonable, he thought he had Gill or Young and wanted to advertise an open spot. Wojo misjudged.
Now Tower is correct, Wojo could be bailed out of this blunder at anytime if another decent transfer calls him or a mid-season transfer in December pops up. But that is getting lucky, not good planning.
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De-commits, transfers, coaching changes, assistant coaching changes. Lots of stuff to still play out.
No, no, no.... don't you realize that Hiesenberg will assume that you're talking about Marquette? Since it would be bad news, he'll be sure that it's true.
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No, no, no.... don't you realize that Hiesenberg will assume that you're talking about Marquette? Since it would be bad news, he'll be sure that it's true.
I was the one that started a thread in March noting the last transfer was Steve Taylor in March 2015. And this was the first time since Crean that MU went 365 days without a transfer (unless Wally leaves). I gave major props to Wojo for FINALLY stabilizing the program. Then we get this self-inflicted wound.
Again I like Wojo, and believe in him, but I'm not going to torture logic to paper over his blunders. This was a blunder.
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They don't cut players to make room and then have nothing. The don't tell people close to the program (Big Daddy) that graduate transfers are looking good and then not only don't they come, they don't even make a visit.
Yes they do. They do all the Fing time.
I understand your argument about Wally, its completely flawed and factually incorrect, but I can at least understand it. But you seriously need to let the Big Daddy thing go. Someone in the basketball program told Big Daddy "We think we got a chance with either Lee or Miller." Thats it. You are the only one who took it as a sign from God that Wojo must be 100% certain that Lee or Miller was going to commit.
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Again I like Wojo, and believe in him, but I'm not going to torture logic to paper over his blunders. This was a blunder.
You do realize that very few recruits would be willing to talk to a coach who has zero scholarships to give. Very few coaches oversign, instead, they cut the worst player (Wally) from the team to clear up space and help facilitate the conversation. Cutting Wally wasn't a blunder. The potential of landing Gill, Young, or a future player is much more valuable than anything Wally was going to bring to the program.
And as other's have said, the conflict with the Ellensons was not about Wally's scholarship. It was about the fact that Wojo saw him as a benchwarmer and the Ellensons saw him as the starting PF for this next season.
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You do realize that very few recruits would be willing to talk to a coach who has zero scholarships to give. Very few coaches oversign, instead, they cut the worst player (Wally) from the team to clear up space and help facilitate the conversation. Cutting Wally wasn't a blunder. The potential of landing Gill, Young, or a future player is much more valuable than anything Wally was going to bring to the program.
And as other's have said, the conflict with the Ellensons was not about Wally's scholarship. It was about the fact that Wojo saw him as a benchwarmer and the Ellensons saw him as the starting PF for this next season.
So is this going to be an annual thing? Cut the worst player in the team to troll for something better? And if nothing pops up, and empty seat is better than the worst player.
I'm actually ok with this if it is known upfront that is how Wojo is going to work. Did anyone know this?
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Go ahead. Call him squirmy.
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De-commits, transfers, coaching changes, assistant coaching changes. Lots of stuff to still play out.
So True. This door is still open.
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So is this going to be an annual thing? Cut the worst player in the team to troll for something better? And if nothing pops up, and empty seat is better than the worst player.
I'm actually ok with this if it is known upfront that is how Wojo is going to work. Did anyone know this?
Every case is unique. So no reason to have arbitrary policy provision like that.
Going back to the beginning I believed Wally was a good transfer prospect on his own merit even if we never got Henry (or even if he was not related to Henry). My reasons were he was a Big Ten quality recruit, who had a lot of athleticism, things didn't work out for him at Minnesota but he we needed a practice body his first year and we had need for a high energy pogo stick guy this year, plus from a total perspective of MU he brought to the table All American status in a prestigious track event. So net he worth a scholarship and worth us taking the risk and investing two years in him. A fair deal so to speak for both parties. Remember when we took him there was absolutely no guarantee of any kind Henry was coming . So we had to evaluate him on his own merits. On his own merits he deserved the scholarship opportunity
So now we come to this seasons post season coach player review. Marcus92 posted a very detailed analysis of the depth chart earlier in this thread. Wally was clearly 13th on the team. So we took a risk on him improving and while he did improve on an absolute basis, there were 12 guys ahead of him on a relative basis. We only have 13 available scholarships. The coach needed to make another scholarship available for whatever reason , not necessarily just this year, and Wally's was not renewed. That did not mean Wally was cut from the team, it meant per NCAA regulations he would have to become a walk on in both basketball and track because it is not NCAA legal to have a basketball player on a Track scholarship. His other choice was to give up basketball and remain in Track as a scholarship athlete.
When Wally evaluated his options, he chose to stick with Track and not become a tuition paying walk on like Cam Marotta and others. He has one more year of indoor track eligibility and that is the sport he will likely go pro in. The more he builds his resume in that sport the more opportunities he will have in the big meets. Improve in track, most of the big meets are in Europe and possibly play on a low level European basketball team like Jake did.
Life is dynamic, and this may ultimately be the best thing that ever happened to Wally
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Every case is unique. So no reason to have arbitrary policy provision like that.
Going back to the beginning I believed Wally was a good transfer prospect on his own merit even if we never got Henry (or even if he was not related to Henry). My reasons were he was a Big Ten quality recruit, who had a lot of athleticism, things didn't work out for him at Minnesota but he we needed a practice body his first year and we had need for a high energy pogo stick guy this year, plus from a total perspective of MU he brought to the table All American status in a prestigious track event. So net he worth a scholarship and worth us taking the risk and investing two years in him. A fair deal so to speak for both parties. Remember when we took him there was absolutely no guarantee of any kind Henry was coming . So we had to evaluate him on his own merits. On his own merits he deserved the scholarship opportunity
So now we come to this seasons post season coach player review. Marcus92 posted a very detailed analysis of the depth chart earlier in this thread. Wally was clearly 13th on the team. So we took a risk on him improving and while he did improve on an absolute basis, there were 12 guys ahead of him on a relative basis. We only have 13 available scholarships. The coach needed to make another scholarship available for whatever reason , not necessarily just this year, and Wally's was not renewed. That did not mean Wally was cut from the team, it meant per NCAA regulations he would have to become a walk on in both basketball and track because it is not NCAA legal to have a basketball player on a Track scholarship. His other choice was to give up basketball and remain in Track as a scholarship athlete.
When Wally evaluated his options, he chose to stick with Track and not become a tuition paying walk on like Cam Marotta and others. He has one more year of indoor track eligibility and that is the sport he will likely go pro in. The more he builds his resume in that sport the more opportunities he will have in the big meets. Improve in track, most of the big meets are in Europe and possibly play on a low level European basketball team like Jake did.
Life is dynamic, and this may ultimately be the best thing that ever happened to Wally
How can you state that information like you know it is factual?
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Yes, let's torture logic to protect Wojo.
So your alternative is to accuse our coach with nothing more than speculation. Got it.
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Your fatal flaw is in thinking it was Wallys idea to leave. Stop protecting Wojo.
He was given 2 options. He chose one. Best of luck to him at what he's good at, and congratulations him to making the smart decision. It's really that simple. You keep trying to make up a story.
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And I agree that Wally should be able to graduate by the end of summer school so he could grad transfer but apparently he cannot. That is on him.
Even if Wally could transfer, what coach would want him? Fifth-year seniors who averaged 8 minutes, 1.9 points and 1.6 rebounds a game aren't in high demand among major Division 1 schools.
Wally was barely good enough to see the court this past season when we only had 10 eligible players. A fourth-year junior, he managed to beat out 2 freshman in minutes. And the amount of playing time he got may have as much to do with Henry as it does with Wally's ability.
Wally just didn't pan out as a Division 1 basketball player. Not at Minnesota. Not at Marquette. Even if he were still on the roster, chances are the only time he'd see the court this year is in garbage time. Why string him along? Fortunately he's a good enough athlete to have other options and can finish his degree on scholarship.
I'm sure Wally thinks he's a better player than he is. I'm sure his family thinks the same. As the coach, Wojo's opinion is the one that counts.
As to the team morale issue, I don't think it's an issue. The team wants to win. And they know they need elite basketball talent to do that. Wally wasn't that guy, no matter how high he could jump or how much he hustled. You might be surprised how much the upgrade in talent and depth energizes this team.
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I'm sure this will just incite the masses, but I'm so sick of the term pogo stick. Wally, Kostas, Young, Gill, they're all pogo sticks. FFS get a new descriptive term. Further, the simple ability to jump does not make one automatically a high value player. Can we maybe discuss the actual merits of a player's game rather than throwing out the same idiotic label for every single player in an attempt to sound savvy?
For the love of God, there have been 21 mentions of pogo stick prior to this post and 57% have been since April 17. Before that, most references included a Jumping Jesus, which is a far more entertaining way to talk about a pogo stick. Just stop, it sounds silly and not remotely clever.
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So within the next 3 years we will either have 2 NCAA Tournament Championships or we will have gone from a 20 win season with a bunch of freshman regressing over 3 years to a 10 win team with a bunch of seniors? And if it's the latter, a guy who spent 20 years next to one of the greatest college basketball coaches in the history of the game, winning 2 National Titles and helping recruit a 3rd class that won a National Title, and spent 5 years running his own program will not be able to land an assistant coaching job anywhere?
The crazies are out in full force, folks!
Wojo does not need to win two NCAA titles to get the Duke job. He needs to make the NCAA three straight years and go farther every year. We will see what happens this year, but I am not betting on MU making the NCAA tournament this year.
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So is this going to be an annual thing? Cut the worst player in the team to troll for something better? And if nothing pops up, and empty seat is better than the worst player.
I'm actually ok with this if it is known upfront that is how Wojo is going to work. Did anyone know this?
Could be. Depends on if next year we have 13 players on scholarship and a gaping hole at a specific position. And if you are ok with it, why are you raising a stink about it?
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Wojo does not need to win two NCAA titles to get the Duke job. He needs to make the NCAA three straight years and go farther every year. We will see what happens this year, but I am not betting on MU making the NCAA tournament this year.
Brad Stevens will get the Duke job.
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Brad Stevens will get the Duke job.
I highly doubt Brad Stevens would want the Duke job. I've heard from Indy that he never enjoyed recruiting. And to coach at Duke, he'd have to up his recruiting tenfold. College would always be an option for him, but I'd be surprised to see him ever back in the collegiate game.
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I highly doubt Brad Stevens would want the Duke job. I've heard from Indy that he never enjoyed recruiting. And to coach at Duke, he'd have to up his recruiting tenfold. College would always be an option for him, but I'd be surprised to see him ever back in the collegiate game.
Duly noted.
I still think he would be on their short list.
Pro Coaches eventually all get fired so he may change his posture.
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Brad Stevens will get the Duke job.
Brad Stevens hates pampering teenage boys and is the biggest rising star at the highest level of basketball coaching. He doesn't want the job at all.
Wojo does not need to win two NCAA titles to get the Duke job. He needs to make the NCAA three straight years and go farther every year. We will see what happens this year, but I am not betting on MU making the NCAA tournament this year.
Anyone who wants to coach Duke right after Coach K is going to have to do more than have 3 NCAA Tournament appearances with no Final Fours.
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Brad Stevens will get the Duke job.
Agree that it's not likely to be Wojo. Even if we make the NCAAs the next 3 years, and Coach K announces his retirement.
I think Duke will look for someone who won't be completely overwhelmed by the shadow of college basketball's greatest coach. Brad Stevens would be a great choice — young, smart and successful at both the college and pro level. I could see Mike Brey, Tommy Amaker or Johnny Dawkins getting the nod ahead of Wojo.
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Cutting Wally and leaving the schollie open is a good plan? Face reality, it's a signal of a screw up.
So you're saying we should have kept Wally who 1) wouldn't have committed full time to basketball like the rest of the team this summer. 2) would have contributed very Little but still gotten to play minutes?
What message does that send to the rest of the players Heisenberg? By your account it's ok to say "hey cheatam, JJJ etc... You don't have to commit to this program to play! You want to take practice off to try your hand at lacrosse, or hit up a local dinner place with your girlfriend, feel free, it's only practice! No commitment necessary!"
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I've always felt of Stevens as the Duke heir apparent. By the time Coach K retires in several years, Stevens will likely be canned given the typical short reigns of NBA coaches, even those with considerable success.
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So is this going to be an annual thing? Cut the worst player in the team to troll for something better? And if nothing pops up, and empty seat is better than the worst player.
I vote that we cut you from scoop; it would definitely be better for all of us.
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So you're saying we should have kept Wally who 1) wouldn't have committed full time to basketball like the rest of the team this summer. 2) would have contributed very Little but still gotten to play minutes?
What message does that send to the rest of the players Heisenberg? By your account it's ok to say "hey cheatam, JJJ etc... You don't have to commit to this program to play! You want to take practice off to try your hand at lacrosse, or hit up a local dinner place with your girlfriend, feel free, it's only practice! No commitment necessary!"
Wally came in as a all-American high jumper. That was part of the deal. After two years that is now not ok?
If JJJ or Cheatham came in as two-sport athletes from the beginning, that would be ok too.
Again nothing has ever been mentioned about Wally being a loafer or lacking commitment. That statement, like the long post by NY above, are just tortured logic to protect Wojo. It's simple, a coach needed a spot so he could get someone better, cut Wally to make that spot, and misjudged and now has no one to fill it.
This is not hard to understand, it is only hard for some that Wojo misjudged Gill and Young and needlessly ended Wally's basketball career because of it.
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Again, cut Wally to bring in someone better, and they actually come, that's how life works. Welcome to reality.
Cut Wally and that someone better does not show, your coach misjudged and I worry about his ability to recruit. He blew it. That is also reality.
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I've always felt of Stevens as the Duke heir apparent. By the time Coach K retires in several years, Stevens will likely be canned given the typical short reigns of NBA coaches, even those with considerable success.
Everyone says that. But he has no ties to Duke and reportedly doesn't like all the BS that goes with coaching college.
I don't get why the Stevens to Duke talk is so prevalent. Is it because he's clean cut and white? I seriously can't think of any reasons a guy who has no ties to the school and bailed on the college game at the first chance while showing no interest in going back would be such a lock for that job.
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Stevens would be considered near the same level as Thibs if Boston somehow fired him next year. He would have the pick of any open NBA job. Have you seen who has gotten head coaching jobs the last couple of seasons?
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So you're saying we should have kept Wally who 1) wouldn't have committed full time to basketball like the rest of the team this summer. 2) would have contributed very Little but still gotten to play minutes?
What message does that send to the rest of the players Heisenberg? By your account it's ok to say "hey cheatam, JJJ etc... You don't have to commit to this program to play! You want to take practice off to try your hand at lacrosse, or hit up a local dinner place with your girlfriend, feel free, it's only practice! No commitment necessary!"
You're actually comparing being an elite track athlete to hanging at a diner with a girlfriend??? Wow, didn't think it was possible, but this site has established a new level of idiocy. I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've never played a sport in your life and have no idea what's involved.
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Again, cut Wally to bring in someone better, and they actually come, that's how life works. Welcome to reality.
Cut Wally and that someone better does not show, your coach misjudged and I worry about his ability to recruit. He blew it. That is also reality.
No, recruiting misses are also how life works. It's a normal part of coaching college basketball. You almost never have a situation where a player is a guarentee get. You have to cut the weaker player before you can get the better player. You always run the risk of the chair staying empty. Even if you don't fill it, it was still the right decision to cut the kid. The possibility of a young, Gill, or future player (again recruiting season is far from over) is much more valuable than anything Wally was going to give us next year.
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No, recruiting misses are also how life works. It's a normal part of coaching college basketball. You almost never have a situation where a player is a guarentee get. You have to cut the weaker player before you can get the better player. You always run the risk of the chair staying empty. Even if you don't fill it, it was still the right decision to cut the kid. The possibility of a young, Gill, or future player (again recruiting season is far from over) is much more valuable than anything Wally was going to give us next year.
Well said TAMU, I think this is how must of us see it. Many things can still happen. Go Warriors!
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So is this going to be an annual thing? Cut the worst player in the team to troll for something better? And if nothing pops up, and empty seat is better than the worst player.
We could always take a flyer on a player to fill the empty seat and if they don't pan out just kick them off the team to take a flyer on another fringe player.
Is that what you are advocating?
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Wally came in as a all-American high jumper. That was part of the deal. After two years that is now not ok?
If JJJ or Cheatham came in as two-sport athletes from the beginning, that would be ok too.
Again nothing has ever been mentioned about Wally being a loafer or lacking commitment. That statement, like the long post by NY above, are just tortured logic to protect Wojo. It's simple, a coach needed a spot so he could get someone better, cut Wally to make that spot, and misjudged and now has no one to fill it.
This is not hard to understand, it is only hard for some that Wojo misjudged Gill and Young and needlessly ended Wally's basketball career because of it.
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Again, cut Wally to bring in someone better, and they actually come, that's how life works. Welcome to reality.
Cut Wally and that someone better does not show, your coach misjudged and I worry about his ability to recruit. He blew it. That is also reality.
Again, you go to incredible lengths to make yourself look completely foolish just for a little attention on Scoop, even if it's negative. It's really odd. You literally have absolutely zero knowledge about what you're saying. If every poster on this board agreed with you and all you got were a few "+1" posts, you'd be posting the complete opposite of what you are now.
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Heisy: If you have some inside knowledge share it. Otherwise, everything you say is based on speculation, and your arguments are worthless.
As for Brad Stevens, why the hell would he want to leave the NBA for Duke? As another Scooper said, even if he got fired for some reason, he would quickly land another NBA job. Why would he want to follow a legend, deal with mommies and daddies again, etc.?
I'd bet on Wojo following K before Stevens, although I don't really think it would be Wojo, either.
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You seem to be arguing that the new policy of the program. Every March figure out with the 13th player is and cut him so they can try and find somebody better.
Again I don't have a problem with that but say it up front. On the first day of practice in October say their are 13 guys here one of you is going to be cut from this team in March. So don't be the last guy.
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You seem to be arguing that the new policy of the program. Every March figure out with the 13th player is and cut him so they can try and find somebody better.
Again I don't have a problem with that but say it up front. On the first day of practice in October say their are 13 guys here one of you is going to be cut from this team in March. So don't be the last guy.
There's no need to announce a policy. Its the policy of every single D1 college basketball program. If you are the worst player on any team with 13 scholarship players, and the team has a glaring need at another position, and there is a reasonable chance the team can get another player at that position, than you are likely going to be cut.
But again, as others have said, this isn't the whole story with Wally.
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You seem to be arguing that the new policy of the program. Every March figure out with the 13th player is and cut him so they can try and find somebody better.
Again I don't have a problem with that but say it up front. On the first day of practice in October say their are 13 guys here one of you is going to be cut from this team in March. So don't be the last guy.
My lord. Just let it go, dude. You're just arguing with yourself on endless circles.
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Brad Stevens will get the Duke job.
You are hilarious...you state a lot of crap lIke you know it to be true, and then when people call you out, you backtrack mighty fast. Who cares who is on "Duke's shortlist."
I've never read anything that stated Stevens is interested in coming back....and I've read plenty about how many GM's and players respect the heck out of him.
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There's no need to announce a policy. Its the policy of every single D1 college basketball program. If you are the worst player on any team with 13 scholarship players, and the team has a glaring need at another position, and there is a reasonable chance the team can get another player at that position, than you are likely going to be cut.
But again, as others have said, this isn't the whole story with Wally.
We seem to be saying the same thing as me. Wojo cut Wally to make room for someone else. This has been my point and all the tortured logic like this post below is a bunch of crap.
I'm also making the point that Wojo seems to overestimate a lot of these late season recruits, transfers which is why we are now with one open schollie
I understand the points you are making here. Let me give you a different side of the issue that you may not have considered.
As you know, because you post on it frequently, Wally is a top level high jumper. What if Wojo decided not to renew Wally's basketball scholarship( that is what actually happened he was not cut) only when he had another bird in the hand. Wojo had no way of knowing when that would happen. What if it happened the weekend Wally was at the NCAA track championships. It would have been a shock to Wally for sure and potentially screwed up the intense focus and preparation he needed to compete for a national championship. How fair would that have been to Wally?
I am not a Wojo Slurper or apologist by any means., but in this case I believe part of the consideration among the coaching staff and administration was that it would be most fair to Wally and best to deliver the bad news up front as part of the regularly scheduled review process. This way he had plenty of time to digest it and move on .
Wally also limited his own options by not being in a position to graduate by the end of the summer.
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I'm also making the point that Wojo seems to overestimate a lot of these late season recruits, transfers which is why we are now with one open schollie
It's only May 22nd.
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50/50 that another player is added before school starts in August. A whole lot to shake out.
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We seem to be saying the same thing as me. Wojo cut Wally to make room for someone else. This has been my point and all the tortured logic like this post below is a bunch of crap.
I'm also making the point that Wojo seems to overestimate a lot of these late season recruits, transfers which is why we are now with one open schollie
We are not. I am saying Wojo did the right thing despite not landing Young or Gill. You are freaking out about it and questioning Wojo's judgement.
Wojo doesn't need any defending. But if you think the Wally situation was as simple as a player getting cut for a better player, you are kidding yourself.
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Wally came in as a all-American high jumper. That was part of the deal. After two years that is now not ok?
If JJJ or Cheatham came in as two-sport athletes from the beginning, that would be ok too.
Again nothing has ever been mentioned about Wally being a loafer or lacking commitment. That statement, like the long post by NY above, are just tortured logic to protect Wojo. It's simple, a coach needed a spot so he could get someone better, cut Wally to make that spot, and misjudged and now has no one to fill it.
This is not hard to understand, it is only hard for some that Wojo misjudged Gill and Young and needlessly ended Wally's basketball career because of it.
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Again, cut Wally to bring in someone better, and they actually come, that's how life works. Welcome to reality.
Cut Wally and that someone better does not show, your coach misjudged and I worry about his ability to recruit. He blew it. That is also reality.
You're dumb.
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We seem to be saying the same thing as me. Wojo cut Wally to make room for someone else. This has been my point and all the tortured logic like this post below is a bunch of crap.
I'm also making the point that Wojo seems to overestimate a lot of these late season recruits, transfers which is why we are now with one open schollie
I bet Calipari is getting a ton of grief for missing on Bolden last week
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You're actually comparing being an elite track athlete to hanging at a diner with a girlfriend??? Wow, didn't think it was possible, but this site has established a new level of idiocy. I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've never played a sport in your life and have no idea what's involved.
False. Played sports. Many. Never pulled a groin either...
What I was saying is why is it ok for Wally to play on the team with a lower level of commitment to the team than other guys? Sorry I didn't dumb it down enough for your groin.
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So Wojo brings Wally in to get kid brother Henry for a year. Henry jumps to the NBA where he'll be overdrafted and then you cut Wally?
No wonder why these late season recruits won't commit to Wojo
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So Wojo brings Wally in to get kid brother Henry for a year. Henry jumps to the NBA where he'll be overdrafted and then you cut Wally?
No wonder why these late season recruits won't commit to Wojo
Oh hi. You must be new here. All the handwringing has been done about this topic and has been done for weeks now. Scoop moves at a very fast pace to the newest and shiny topic.
Furthermore, unless these recruits have siblings I imagine none of them care who got cut to give them a scholarship--just that they are important enough to get one.
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Being drafted(over under or otherwise) is the dream of every kid that plays college basketball.
If you think the Wally situation has anything to do with Gill or Young you are an idiot.
Carry on though....
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Being drafted(over under or otherwise) is the dream of every kid that plays college basketball.
If you think the Wally situation has anything to do with Gill or Young you are an idiot.
Carry on though....
Yup.
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Just be prepared for a very long season. We do not have the tools to be a factor.
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Yeah we do. I expect we will be better than last year.
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Just a hunch, but, I'm figurin' we add a scholarship playa between now and da start of da fall semester, hey?
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We probably will never know the full story. Even under the best scenario we are still left with a black eye by not setting proper expectations with the family and public. It never should have came down to one side or the other parting on bad terms.
That said, black eyes heal. I don't think any top 75 recruit will care we cut Wally. I just hate wasted scholarships so we better use it.
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We probably will never know the full story. Even under the best scenario we are still left with a black eye by not setting proper expectations with the family and public. It never should have came down to one side or the other parting on bad terms.
That said, black eyes heal. I don't think any top 75 recruit will care we cut Wally. I just hate wasted scholarships so we better use it.
What black eye. Outside of scoop no one even realized this happened
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We probably will never know the full story. Even under the best scenario we are still left with a black eye by not setting proper expectations with the family and public. It never should have came down to one side or the other parting on bad terms.
That said, black eyes heal. I don't think any top 75 recruit will care we cut Wally. I just hate wasted scholarships so we better use it.
Oh? We'd better?
Sign a stiff, if you have too, Wojo, but for God's sake don't piss off martyconlonontherun.
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As much is it is important to have 13 scholarship players, the bigger question is how you keep them all happy? You only play at most 9 or 10 players so the 13th player
to accept a scholy to just a fill a spot is ridiculous. Yes, MU needs a power forward, and for the second year in a row Wojo has come up short filling a need. I am having a hard time digesting his inability to close at the end. Right now MU has more to sell in the future then 90% of the programs in America, not sure he is getting it done. 2 years new arena, first class facility right near campus where an NBA team and MU players will be able to work with each other. I would think next year will be
a big year as well as the following year as the building goes up. No excuses going forward in my book. Lots to sell.
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Yes, MU needs a power forward, and for the second year in a row Wojo has come up short filling a need.
FYI, per the calendar most of us are on, it's only May.
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FYI, per the calendar most of us are on, it's only May.
Yes there is still time for another player, maybe he gets it done.
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As much is it is important to have 13 scholarship players, the bigger question is how you keep them all happy? You only play at most 9 or 10 players so the 13th player
to accept a scholy to just a fill a spot is ridiculous. Yes, MU needs a power forward, and for the second year in a row Wojo has come up short filling a need. I am having a hard time digesting his inability to close at the end. Right now MU has more to sell in the future then 90% of the programs in America, not sure he is getting it done. 2 years new arena, first class facility right near campus where an NBA team and MU players will be able to work with each other. I would think next year will be
a big year as well as the following year as the building goes up. No excuses going forward in my book. Lots to sell.
This entire post summed up in one sentence: "I need attention!"
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I am having a hard time digesting his inability to close at the end.
I am having a hard time digesting your lack of knowledge about college basketball. Burp.
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There's no need to announce a policy. Its the policy of every single D1 college basketball program. If you are the worst player on any team with 13 scholarship players, and the team has a glaring need at another position, and there is a reasonable chance the team can get another player at that position, than you are likely going to be cut.
But again, as others have said, this isn't the whole story with Wally.
I would be surprised, if every college program folllows this. Certainly Crean does, but I suspect there are more programs that do not do this than there are that practice it. It is hard to tell, because a coach dumping a player that is a bad citizen is not the same as cutting a player that is not good. I do not agree with cutting players unless they are screwing up off the court. Cutting a player that is not good is just covering up the fact that the coach should not of given a player a scholarship in the first place. Coaches are much better at recognizing talent than the average poster here. Giving player X a scholarship when you know he is going to be the 13th player on the team is just foolish. Save the scholarship and have some confidence in your ability to sign a better recruit in the next class.
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I would be surprised, if every college program folllows this. Certainly Crean does, but I suspect there are more programs that do not do this than there are that practice it. It is hard to tell, because a coach dumping a player that is a bad citizen is not the same as cutting a player that is not good. I do not agree with cutting players unless they are screwing up off the court. Cutting a player that is not good is just covering up the fact that the coach should not of given a player a scholarship in the first place. Coaches are much better at recognizing talent than the average poster here. Giving player X a scholarship when you know he is going to be the 13th player on the team is just foolish. Save the scholarship and have some confidence in your ability to sign a better recruit in the next class.
Every may be a strong word. But every program I've worked for, and every program I have networks at does. I'd be willing to bet every high major does and most D1 programs. They are one year contacts. It's a coaches job to find the best 13 players every year. If you have a chance to get a better player but are out of schollies it is the coaches responsibility to not renew the worst players scholarship and make the team better.
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Every may be a strong word. But every program I've worked for, and every program I have networks at does. I'd be willing to bet every high major does and most D1 programs. They are one year contacts. It's a coaches job to find the best 13 players every year. If you have a chance to get a better player but are out of schollies it is the coaches responsibility to not renew the worst players scholarship and make the team better.
this is morphing into 4 year contracts
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Every may be a strong word. But every program I've worked for, and every program I have networks at does. I'd be willing to bet every high major does and most D1 programs. They are one year contacts. It's a coaches job to find the best 13 players every year. If you have a chance to get a better player but are out of schollies it is the coaches responsibility to not renew the worst players scholarship and make the team better.
If Henry had returned for his sophomore year would it have been Wojo's responsibility not to renew our worst player's scholarship and make the team better? Maybe, but I'd bet 1,000 to 1 it wouldn't happen.
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If Henry had returned for his sophomore year would it have been Wojo's responsibility not to renew our worst player's scholarship and make the team better? Maybe, but I'd bet 1,000 to 1 it wouldn't happen.
Me, too. Even if Wally didn't "totally commit" to basketball.
When it comes to the Pol-axing of Wally, I'm in the "I can't get too outraged about this" camp. But I still acknowledge the optics aren't the greatest -- in other words, it looks bad, no matter how folks try to justify it.
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If Henry had returned for his sophomore year would it have been Wojo's responsibility not to renew our worst player's scholarship and make the team better? Maybe, but I'd bet 1,000 to 1 it wouldn't happen.
Henry never was going to come back for his sophomore season.
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Me, too. Even if Wally didn't "totally commit" to basketball.
When it comes to the Pol-axing of Wally, I'm in the "I can't get too outraged about this" camp. But I still acknowledge the optics aren't the greatest -- in other words, it looks bad, no matter how folks try to justify it.
I'm with you, Mike. I don't object to Wojo spending 3 years worth of scholarships for 1 year of Henry. Nor would I have objected had Wojo spent 5 year's worth for 2 years worth of Henry (as he most assuredly would have to keep Henry for his sophomore year). And I don't object that once Henry opted out Wojo decided not to give the Ellensons a 4th year of scholarship for Henry's 1 year of contributions. These are all business decisions and coaches at big time basketball schools are paid big $ to make them based on how they think their bottom line (winning!) will be affected.
Again, I don't object - but I don't pretend that it's not what it is - "Just win, baby". Do it well enough you're in the Hall of Fame (Al). Do it badly enough and you're dismissed in disgrace (Bob Dukiet). Both played "Just win, baby". One superbly, one poorly.
Wojo is "Just win, baby" too. They all are. I hope that like Al and Buzz he's good enough to achieve his objective - which (pardon my redundancy) is winning. If he is we will forgive every "heartless" decision he makes in its pursuit. If not, he'll be gone in a few years and nobody here will miss him. Some will even call him squirmy on the way out.
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All coaches want to win, some will do things that are not needed. Some go even further, break the rules or have proxies do it for them. Some cover up things...Baylor is a fun example of that currently, but hardly the first.
The worst response.....but but but < X coach > used to do it. Awesome, the response my kids gave when they were 7.
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All coaches want to win, some will do things that are not needed. Some go even further, break the rules or have proxies do it for them. Some cover up things...Baylor is a fun example of that currently, but hardly the first.
The worst response.....but but but < X coach > used to do it. Awesome, the response my kids gave when they were 7.
There are degrees. There are winning coaches who break NCAA rules, undermine their own university rules, when there are no rules to follow do whatever is best in respect to winning with no thought as to the impact to others.
On the other side, there are winning coaches who bend the rules, try their best to follow the university's codes, and also have integrity, though may fail, like we all do, from time to time.
Let's not pretend there is no difference between shoplifters and mass murderers and simply say they are all criminals.
p.s. not disagreeing with you Chicos, just adding
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The worst response.....but but but < X coach > used to do it. Awesome, the response my kids gave when they were 7.
No, the worst response is demonizing coach X and defending coach Y when coach x and coach y are two peas in a pod. It's called hypocrisy. It's rarely seen in 7 year olds but they could learn it from their parents I suppose.
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Let's not pretend there is no difference between shoplifters and mass murderers and simply say they are all criminals.
Very few "mass murderers" in college basketball, tons of "shoplifters". Our coaches from Al to the present fit the latter. My problem is with those who excuse one shoplifter and accuse another shoplifter of being a mass murderer. That's hypocrisy.
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I'm with you, Mike. I don't object to Wojo spending 3 years worth of scholarships for 1 year of Henry. Nor would I have objected had Wojo spent 5 year's worth for 2 years worth of Henry (as he most assuredly would have to keep Henry for his sophomore year). And I don't object that once Henry opted out Wojo decided not to give the Ellensons a 4th year of scholarship for Henry's 1 year of contributions. These are all business decisions and coaches at big time basketball schools are paid big $ to make them based on how they think their bottom line (winning!) will be affected.
Again, I don't object - but I don't pretend that it's not what it is - "Just win, baby". Do it well enough you're in the Hall of Fame (Al). Do it badly enough and you're dismissed in disgrace (Bob Dukiet). Both played "Just win, baby". One superbly, one poorly.
Wojo is "Just win, baby" too. They all are. I hope that like Al and Buzz he's good enough to achieve his objective - which (pardon my redundancy) is winning. If he is we will forgive every "heartless" decision he makes in its pursuit. If not, he'll be gone in a few years and nobody here will miss him. Some willy even call him squirmy on the way out.
I still get the sense we are missing the larger issue.
Again, this is a business, so cutting Wally for a better player is fine. I'm ok with it.
But when Wojo cuts Wally, whiffs of Gill and Young and then say he is not anxious to fill the roster spot, I get worried. What was the point of cutting Wally if you replace him with no one? Does an empty chair really make this team better?
Yes, we still time to find another transfer between now and October. But at this point it seems that is more luck than a larger plan of cutting Wally to make room for a better player. We have no better player in mind right now, just hope one will magically appear.
So this is about Wojos ability to recruit. Or, maybe his reading (misreading) of recruits.
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I still get the sense we are missing the larger issue.
Again, this is a business, so cutting Wally for a better player is fine. I'm ok with it.
But when Wojo cuts Wally, whiffs of Gill and Young and then say he is not anxious to fill the roster spot, I get worried. What was the point of cutting Wally if you replace him with no one? Does an empty chair really make this team better?
Yes, we still time to find another transfer between now and October. But at this point it seems that is more luck than a larger plan of cutting Wally to make room for a better player. We have no better player in mind right now, just hope one will magically appear.
So this is about Wojos ability to recruit. Or, maybe his reading (misreading) of recruits.
So far, Wojo's two recruiting classes have produced one top-10 team ranking and one top-20. Ipso fatso, I'm quite satisfied with Wojo's ability to recruit and to "read" recruits.
Landing numerous top targets and finishing second or third on a few others is similar to the kind of recruiting record blue-blood coaches have.
IMHO, while it's too early to judge Wojo a "blue-blood level" recruiter, it is FAR too early to question his ability to recruit.
All we can go on are facts. And the fact is that in his only two years at Marquette, he has recruited better than at least 95% of the coaches in America.
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I still get the sense we are missing the larger issue.
But when Wojo cuts Wally, whiffs of Gill and Young and then say he is not anxious to fill the roster spot, I get worried. What was the point of cutting Wally if you replace him with no one? Does an empty chair really make this team better?
So this is about Wojos ability to recruit. Or, maybe his reading (misreading) of recruits.
The answer in my mind is maybe it is a bad sign -- or maybe not.
However, I don't think people are missing the larger point - being that we need to get back to post-season bball. Wojo is in charge of recruiting and coaching. He has landed some recruits that get people excited...he has missed some that we wished we had at the time.
Him cutting a player for reasons we probably don't fully understand and him missing a recruit he targeted is just a teeny piece of a much bigger picture that will be judged in time on the court.
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But when Wojo cuts Wally, whiffs of Gill and Young and then say he is not anxious to fill the roster spot, I get worried. What was the point of cutting Wally if you replace him with no one? Does an empty chair really make this team better?
You seem to have this expectation that for Wojo to be judged successful every plan he makes must be successful. If so get ready to be disappointed a lot. Even the bluebloods like Kansas and Duke make plans to get a certain recruit and then loose out on that recruit. Its one of the major things that makes college basketball so interesting.
Look at it this way. When the transfer season started Wojo saw the chance to bring in Reinhardt a proven scorer with experience that would help a team that last year suffered from a lack of experience and was losing its top scorer. Now Wojo could have said "yes but Reinhardt is not a natural front court player; I need a front court player for my last scholarship so I'll have to pass on Reinhardt." He could have planed that but he didn't. Instead he took Reinhardt figuring that he'd cut Wally and put him on a track scholarship to "get back the last scholarship". The last roster spot is still open making MU a very attractive spot for both these 2 PF candidates that he has in mind. So everything goes as planned except neither candidate choses MU. They chose other schools that in my opinion have a situation just as attractive as ours. And of course we are still trying to find a 1 year PF which still may happen.
So what you need to ask yourself is would you rather Wojo just passed on Reinhardt, kept Wally on the team and then tried, and as we know now failed, to bring in a PF. You'd still have an open scholarship but you'd have one year of Wally instead of one year of Reinhardt. I'd rather have Reinhardt and I still hope we get a 1 year PF but if we don't we're better off with our current roster. This is not a precise game that you want to make it. You plan for certain things to happen but sometimes they don't because your targets have other options as well.
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I still get the sense we are missing the larger issue.
Again, this is a business, so cutting Wally for a better player is fine. I'm ok with it.
But when Wojo cuts Wally, whiffs of Gill and Young and then say he is not anxious to fill the roster spot, I get worried. What was the point of cutting Wally if you replace him with no one? Does an empty chair really make this team better?
Yes, we still time to find another transfer between now and October. But at this point it seems that is more luck than a larger plan of cutting Wally to make room for a better player. We have no better player in mind right now, just hope one will magically appear.
So this is about Wojos ability to recruit. Or, maybe his reading (misreading) of recruits.
I'm kind of with TAMU on this. You have to cut the guy you know won't help before you go after guys who will. Even if you miss on the guys you go after you're no worse off as Wally was looked upon as a non contributor.
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Would having Wally on next year's team be the difference between making the tournament and not making the tournament? I don't see how anyone can argue 'yes'. Is Wally really going to suffer from this? No.
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Very few "mass murderers" in college basketball, tons of "shoplifters". Our coaches from Al to the present fit the latter. My problem is with those who excuse one shoplifter and accuse another shoplifter of being a mass murderer. That's hypocrisy.
Don't disagree. However, there are still "shoplifters" who steal $500k worth of merchandise and those who lift $50. Still a big difference in my book.
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I still get the sense we are missing the larger issue.
Again, this is a business, so cutting Wally for a better player is fine. I'm ok with it.
But when Wojo cuts Wally, whiffs of Gill and Young and then say he is not anxious to fill the roster spot, I get worried. What was the point of cutting Wally if you replace him with no one? Does an empty chair really make this team better?
Yes, we still time to find another transfer between now and October. But at this point it seems that is more luck than a larger plan of cutting Wally to make room for a better player. We have no better player in mind right now, just hope one will magically appear.
So this is about Wojos ability to recruit. Or, maybe his reading (misreading) of recruits.
No, it's not. It's about your inability to understand the situation and your need for attention.
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You seem to have this expectation that for Wojo to be judged successful every plan he makes must be successful. If so get ready to be disappointed a lot. Even the bluebloods like Kansas and Duke make plans to get a certain recruit and then loose out on that recruit. Its one of the major things that makes college basketball so interesting.
Look at it this way. When the transfer season started Wojo saw the chance to bring in Reinhardt a proven scorer with experience that would help a team that last year suffered from a lack of experience and was losing its top scorer. Now Wojo could have said "yes but Reinhardt is not a natural front court player; I need a front court player for my last scholarship so I'll have to pass on Reinhardt." He could have planed that but he didn't. Instead he took Reinhardt figuring that he'd cut Wally and put him on a track scholarship to "get back the last scholarship". The last roster spot is still open making MU a very attractive spot for both these 2 PF candidates that he has in mind. So everything goes as planned except neither candidate choses MU. They chose other schools that in my opinion have a situation just as attractive as ours. And of course we are still trying to find a 1 year PF which still may happen.
So what you need to ask yourself is would you rather Wojo just passed on Reinhardt, kept Wally on the team and then tried, and as we know now failed, to bring in a PF. You'd still have an open scholarship but you'd have one year of Wally instead of one year of Reinhardt. I'd rather have Reinhardt and I still hope we get a 1 year PF but if we don't we're better off with our current roster. This is not a precise game that you want to make it. You plan for certain things to happen but sometimes they don't because your targets have other options as well.
Why not sign someone first, cut to make room for them second? Does that make more sense?
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Why not sign someone first, cut to make room for them second? Does that make more sense?
Does it make any sense for a college head coach to "cut" the brother of his star recruit and potential lottery pick?
Do you think it's possible the head coach was giving a player an honest assessment of what the player could expect regarding minutes the following year and the player would have none of that and left the team?
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Does it make any sense for a college head coach to "cut" the brother of his star recruit and potential lottery pick?
Do you think it's possible the head coach was giving a player an honest assessment of what the player could expect regarding minutes the following year and the player would have none of that and left the team?
Again, that is a conversation you have in October, not in March a week after the season is over. No one knows what kind of off-season Wally would have (good or bad) or what other players would do (good or bad). You cannot say that now.
Restated, what you said is probably how it was phrased, but its what it meant was "you're cut."
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Again, that is a conversation you have in October, not in March a week after the season is over. No one knows what kind of off-season Wally would have (good or bad) or what other players would do (good or bad). You cannot say that now.
Restated, what you said is probably how it was phrased, but its what it meant was "you're cut."
So...give Wally a school-year-long scholarship and then cut him right before the basketball season, guaranteeing that even if Walter wasn't locked into that scholarship for the entire year (which he would be) you couldn't do anything since the semester has started so you're not going to be able to add anyone for the basketball season that is a couple weeks from starting? Yeah, that sounds like the much better option!
If the kid hadn't done anything in 4 years of college basketball to show he was a high major contributor (he hadn't) then his extra offseason isn't going to show the improvements necessary to contribute.
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Still not a fan of how it went down, but what's done is done. Wally is gone and won't be back. Hope we find someone worth using the scholarship on. No one who is still debating this six weeks later is going to change their opinion on the matter, so why keep belaboring it? Nothing has changed since mid-April.
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Again, that is a conversation you have in October, not in March a week after the season is over. No one knows what kind of off-season Wally would have (good or bad) or what other players would do (good or bad). You cannot say that now.
Restated, what you said is probably how it was phrased, but its what it meant was "you're cut."
That post-season conversation happens in 99.9% of D1 basketball programs. Why should MU do anything differently?
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That post-season conversation happens in 99.9% of D1 basketball programs. Why should MU do anything differently?
Because Heisey likes to argue.
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Don't disagree. However, there are still "shoplifters" who steal $500k worth of merchandise and those who lift $50. Still a big difference in my book.
Think 500k would be considered grand theft not shoplifting but I don't disagree. My problem is when a guy rationalizes blatant cheating (visiting during a non contact period) by a head coach he likes but wants to tar and feather a head coach he dislikes when his ASSISTANT gives a kid a t shirt.
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Why not sign someone first, cut to make room for them second? Does that make more sense?
If you think the guy you have on the roster will be of very little use to you next season and you'd prefer to not deal with his "baggage" (parents expectations, practice conflicts) then NO you cut the guy first. Its always easier to find someone when you have an obvious opening then it is to hope the word gets out that you're not happy with someone on a full roster and will create a position.
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If you think the guy you have on the roster will be of very little use to you next season and you'd prefer to not deal with his "baggage" (parents expectations, practice conflicts) then NO you cut the guy first. Its always easier to find someone when you have an obvious opening then it is to hope the word gets out that you're not happy with someone on a full roster and will create a position.
So an empty schollie is better than keeping him.
A guy that logged 242 minutes this past season is now worth less than an empty schollie?
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So an empty schollie is better than keeping him.
A guy that logged 242 minutes this past season is now worth less than an empty schollie?
We needed a power forward. The staff thought the chance to go after Gill, Young, and any other options they pursued was more valuable than the contributions Wally would bring to the table. Essentially, they banked that Reinhardt's addition would more than offset Wally's loss and hoped they could fill the scholarship otherwise.
I'm not a fan of the move, but I'd probably be less a fan of the staff offering Gill and Young when they had 13 scholarships spoken for and no alternate plan evident. I get why people wouldn't like it, but in a situation that likely was never going to end well, there's definitely a logical course that suggests this option was the least not well of the options available.
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Heisty, you're getting as bad as Ners was. We understand your position on this.
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So far, Wojo's two recruiting classes have produced one top-10 team ranking and one top-20. Ipso fatso, I'm quite satisfied with Wojo's ability to recruit and to "read" recruits.
Landing numerous top targets and finishing second or third on a few others is similar to the kind of recruiting record blue-blood coaches have.
IMHO, while it's too early to judge Wojo a "blue-blood level" recruiter, it is FAR too early to question his ability to recruit.
All we can go on are facts. And the fact is that in his only two years at Marquette, he has recruited better than at least 95% of the coaches in America.
I do not think we can yet say Wojo is a great recruiter. I think you can generate a lot of enthusiasm when you come in as a new coach. Young Wojo vs. old Bo to me was a very appealing competition. Now it is Wojo vs. Gard and it will be interesting to see how that will work out. His second year he benefited greatly form Arizona St. decommits that were previously recruit by Johnson. I think this year's class is more attributable to Johnson than Wojo. I think next year's class will be more telling. We have a need for power forwards and centers and it will be interesting to see how well Wojo fills the available scholarships. There is significant playing time available at these two spots and there is enough talent at the other three positions to sell a recruit on the idea that he has a good chance to contribute right away on a good team.
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I do not think we can yet say Wojo is a great recruiter. I think you can generate a lot of enthusiasm when you come in as a new coach. Young Wojo vs. old Bo to me was a very appealing competition. Now it is Wojo vs. Gard and it will be interesting to see how that will work out. His second year he benefited greatly form Arizona St. decommits that were previously recruit by Johnson. I think this year's class is more attributable to Johnson than Wojo. I think next year's class will be more telling. We have a need for power forwards and centers and it will be interesting to see how well Wojo fills the available scholarships. There is significant playing time available at these two spots and there is enough talent at the other three positions to sell a recruit on the idea that he has a good chance to contribute right away on a good team.
Historically all successful coaches have an assistant who is a star at recruiting. So while it is true that Johnson has brought some good recruits in, that is part of his job for which he is well paid to do. Wojo has focused on high quality prospects as well. He did an excellent job of landing Hauser. I am becoming more convinced from everything I see and hear that Hauser is going to be a very good player for us.
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Historically all successful coaches have an assistant who is a star at recruiting. So while it is true that Johnson has brought some good recruits in, that is part of his job for which he is well paid to do. Wojo has focused on high quality prospects as well. He did an excellent job of landing Hauser. I am becoming more convinced from everything I see and hear that Hauser is going to be a very good player for us.
Really? I think it would be more accurate to say that successful head coaches are stars at recruiting. Who were Al's, KO's and Buzz's "star recruiters"? Al, KO and Buzz. Assistants come and go. Off the top of my head I can't remember the "star assistants" who made great programs great over the years but I do remember Wooden, Knight, Tark, Dean Smith, Cal and Coach K were their own "closers".
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For Buzz, Tony Benford and Aki Collins were both excellent recruiters. When they both left, Isaac Chew came in to take that role. It's really not worth hashing out the differences of how things were done 20+ years ago (though I'd suspect O'Neill and Al had plenty of help) but very few programs these days, even elite ones, don't have ace recruiters on staff. That's why guys like Slice Rohrrsen are in demand, and why guys like Steve Wojciechowski and Orlando Antigua are now head coaches and guys like Kurtis Townsend and Dwayne Stephens are retained for so long.
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For Buzz, Tony Benford and Aki Collins were both excellent recruiters. When they both left, Isaac Chew came in to take that role. It's really not worth hashing out the differences of how things were done 20+ years ago (though I'd suspect O'Neill and Al had plenty of help) but very few programs these days, even elite ones, don't have ace recruiters on staff. That's why guys like Slice Rohrrsen are in demand, and why guys like Steve Wojciechowski and Orlando Antigua are now head coaches and guys like Kurtis Townsend and Dwayne Stephens are retained for so long.
Agreed..shotout to CC as well, but I don't think MU fans appreciate BN's contributions as much as perhaps they should.
Great assistants can go along way.
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Heisy: If you have some inside knowledge share it. Otherwise, everything you say is based on speculation, and your arguments are worthless.
As for Brad Stevens, why the hell would he want to leave the NBA for Duke? As another Scooper said, even if he got fired for some reason, he would quickly land another NBA job. Why would he want to follow a legend, deal with mommies and daddies again, etc.?
I'd bet on Wojo following K before Stevens, although I don't really think it would be Wojo, either.
I wouldn't bet on Wojo following K either. That said, nothing would make me happier than to see Wojo back in Durham as head coach by 2022 or perhaps even earlier because the only way that happens is if he does an absolutely incredible job for us over the next 5-6 years. You can't blame the guy for wanting to go back to his alma mater. I remember in the immediate aftermath of his hiring, the scoop consensus was this will be short lived because he'll just go back to Duke in 6 yrs. At the time I thought, we all better hope that's what happens, but I was new to scoop at the time and didn't have the courage to articulate that POV. With few exceptions, high major D1 head coaches are transient lot and we all just need to accept that. In MU's case I wouldn't underestimate the climate either. Buzz didn't leave for a higher paying gig and even if O'Neill did, no one in Knoxville gave a damn about hoops at that time and only care marginally more there today. Living in a place where it's the dead of winter 8/12 months a year takes its toll eventually (sorry couldn't resist)! In all seriousness though, if WOJO gets the Duke head coaching job we'll be in excellent shape.
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People must really be optimistic about Wojo to have him taking over Duke in a few years after his lackluster start coaching Marquette.
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I'm kind of with TAMU on this. You have to cut the guy you know won't help before you go after guys who will. Even if you miss on the guys you go after you're no worse off as Wally was looked upon as a non contributor.
Xactly
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There are degrees. There are winning coaches who break NCAA rules, undermine their own university rules, when there are no rules to follow do whatever is best in respect to winning with no thought as to the impact to others.
On the other side, there are winning coaches who bend the rules, try their best to follow the university's codes, and also have integrity, though may fail, like we all do, from time to time.
Let's not pretend there is no difference between shoplifters and mass murderers and simply say they are all criminals.
p.s. not disagreeing with you Chicos, just adding
I agree entirely, there are degrees to everything, but using your example....shoplifters and murderers are both breaking the law. Certainly one is much worse, but both are breaking the law.
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People must really be optimistic about Wojo to have him taking over Duke in a few years after his lackluster start coaching Marquette.
Seven game turnaround from year one to year two.
Doubled conference wins from year one to year two.
Started three Freshmen in Madison and won.
Swept Providence, a team that had two of the five best players in the conference.
6-3 neutral court record over two seasons.
Put two members of his first recruiting class on the All-Rookie team.
Landed the best in-state recruit in the 2016 class.
Landed a 4-star stud guard who reclassified his graduation so he could immediately play for Wojo.
It's a clown show.
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Brad Stevens will get the Duke job.
http://www.vigilantsports.com/2016/06/01/brad-stevens-inks-contract-extension-with-celtics/
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Seven game turnaround from year one to year two.
Doubled conference wins from year one to year two.
Started three Freshmen in Madison and won.
Swept Providence, a team that had two of the five best players in the conference.
6-3 neutral court record over two seasons.
Put two members of his first recruiting class on the All-Rookie team.
Landed the best in-state recruit in the 2016 class.
Landed a 4-star stud guard who reclassified his graduation so he could immediately play for Wojo.
It's a clown show.
This is my favorite post. It's early but I'm excited to see what the silly wojo haters will say.
Let me guess:
"But he made them wear white shirts."
"He cut our 13th best player who averaged 1.9ppg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"He's white!"
"He doesn't cater to sweater vests."
"Wojo didn't personally sell enough season tickets!"
"Henry isn't the #1 over all pick, wojo is trash."
Stupid stupid stupid. Wojo has been great so far.
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I not going to argue about Wojo, but I think if Johnson took another job it could really big hit to Wojo's recruiting.
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I not going to argue about Wojo, but I think if Johnson took another job it could really big hit to Wojo's recruiting.
"I not [sic] going to argue about Wojo, but I'm going to imply all his recruiting success is really due to Stan."
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Wojo managed to get Henry, Cheatham, Carter, Rowsey and Hauser without Stan.
Don't get me wrong. Stan has done a great job but let's be real here.
Ps. Who gets the credit for hiring Stan away from ASU? I mean he didn't just show up here and start landing guys. He was recruited to MU by Wojo and Nelson.
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Seven game turnaround from year one to year two.
Doubled conference wins from year one to year two.
Started three Freshmen in Madison and won.
Swept Providence, a team that had two of the five best players in the conference.
6-3 neutral court record over two seasons.
Put two members of his first recruiting class on the All-Rookie team.
Landed the best in-state recruit in the 2016 class.
Landed a 4-star stud guard who reclassified his graduation so he could immediately play for Wojo.
It's a clown show.
My favorite post so far this offseason.
But what do I know? I don't think Wojo should be fired, so I'm stoopid.
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Off season scoop is tough. Let's give Coach Wojo a chance. He has proven to be an excellent recruiter. He is coaching in a very tough league. I like what he has shown so far. Let the positive trend continue. Go Marquette!
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I not going to argue about Wojo, but I think if Johnson took another job it could really big hit to Wojo's recruiting.
Johnson has done a nice job so far and delighted he is part of our coaching staff. If for some reason he left, we we would just hire another assistant with strong recruiting ties to replace him. These assistant jobs are highly coveted and there are plenty of quality coaches who would love to be part of our program.