MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 22, 2016, 08:26:59 AM
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https://painttouches.com/2016/04/22/how-will-wally-ellenson-leaving-affect-marquette/
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Send us our check TAMU! ;D
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Ellenson will be Marquett'e first lottery pick in the modern era? What era was Wade drafted in?
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who cares if henry is upset? he was a one and done on a team that didn't even make the NIT. Besides MU has plenty of great players in the nba. Henry may not even see the floor next year unless his defense improves by orders of magnitude. This won't hurt or help recruiting. Wojo wants to win, would be nice to get a tourney appearance in jajuan and luke's last year.
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Send us our check TAMU! ;D
I'll have Andrei send my next paycheck to you
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Ellenson will be Marquett'e first lottery pick in the modern era? What era was Wade drafted in?
I view the modern era of Marquette basketball as our time in the Big East.
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I'll have Andrei send my next paycheck to you
;)
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Ellenson will be Marquett'e first lottery pick in the modern era? What era was Wade drafted in?
So I was going to make a joke about "The Dukiet-Crean Era," and when I was Googling for the exact dates, I came across this:
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1989/03/17/page/82/article/marquette-decides-to-dump-dukiet
First I came across this little tidbit of information, and holy shnikes... I never thought I'd say this, but think of the sh|tstorm (to put it mildly) MU avoided by hiring Crean.
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The question is how will this situation change the perception of Wojo among recruits. This seems to be following a now 3 coach tradition of getting rid of fringe players. House-Creaning, Buzz- cutting, and now Pole-axing. How does it change the average scooper's perception of Wojo? We are a miniscule subset of MU fans, but is this just the business of college basketball or does it feel squirmy? Or does the answer to that question dovetail with your existing opinion of Wojo?
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The question is how will this situation change the perception of Wojo among recruits. This seems to be following a now 3 coach tradition of getting rid of fringe players. House-Creaning, Buzz- cutting, and now Pole-axing. How does it change the average scooper's perception of Wojo? We are a miniscule subset of MU fans, but is this just the business of college basketball or does it feel squirmy? Or does the answer to that question dovetail with your existing opinion of Wojo?
Crean, Buzz and Wojo are all coaches trying to win at the highest level. As such, they'll all push the envelope. So will all the other coaches in D1. It hasn't hurt Crean or Buzz in recruiting and it won't hurt Wojo. As Michael Corleone said, "This is the business we have chosen".
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I agree. It is the nature of college athletics at the moment that scholarships are fluid things. For better or worse. And Wojo is apparently perceptive enough to realize the roster as currently constructed was not going to compete for the Big East Championship.
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Very few programs have the luxury to waste a scholarship. It sounds harsh but any coach will tell you that a senior who isn't going to contribute in his final year of eligibility is a wasted scholarship.
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Wojo might be feeling the pressure to win and go to a tourney next year. Do we want to become a premier team that goes to the tourney every year and that recruits know and like? Or should we become a team that goes to the big dance every couple years and maybe wins the first round once in a while. I am not saying this is the way to get there, but might be the fastest.
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Our APR isn't great. Would not like to be in a situation where Henry and/or Wally don't finish out the semester satisfactorily.
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Our APR isn't great. Would not like to be in a situation where Henry and/or Wally don't finish out the semester satisfactorily.
I think Henry withdrew from classes. Wally is competing in track so he will finish out semester.
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My position is this. I'm not a fan of how Wally was dismissed. We can banter about all the pluses and minuses, but the kid wanted to keep playing basketball and MU made that impossible. Wally will be okay and I don't expect long-term negative ramifications, but it leaves a sour taste. We could have used the Reinhardt scholarship on a big, we could have sent someone packing who could retain eligibility, we could have better prepared him to make sure he was eligible to leave as a graduate transfer.
What this says to me is "respect the process" is over. We are in win-now mode and that starts November 11. I've been fine with patience in the name of cleaning things up and improving the image of the program. If that will be eschewed, then we need to be back in the Tournament next year. Anything less would be a failure on the part of the coaching staff.
Let's get back to March runs and lots of wins.
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My position is this. I'm not a fan of how Wally was dismissed. We can banter about all the pluses and minuses, but the kid wanted to keep playing basketball and MU made that impossible. Wally will be okay and I don't expect long-term negative ramifications, but it leaves a sour taste. We could have used the Reinhardt scholarship on a big, we could have sent someone packing who could retain eligibility, we could have better prepared him to make sure he was eligible to leave as a graduate transfer.
What this says to me is "respect the process" is over. We are in win-now mode and that starts November 11. I've been fine with patience in the name of cleaning things up and improving the image of the program. If that will be eschewed, then we need to be back in the Tournament next year. Anything less would be a failure on the part of the coaching staff.
Let's get back to March runs and lots of wins.
uhh, ok Brew, we will remember that on all boards. You are on the clock.
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My position is this. I'm not a fan of how Wally was dismissed. We can banter about all the pluses and minuses, but the kid wanted to keep playing basketball and MU made that impossible. Wally will be okay and I don't expect long-term negative ramifications, but it leaves a sour taste. We could have used the Reinhardt scholarship on a big, we could have sent someone packing who could retain eligibility, we could have better prepared him to make sure he was eligible to leave as a graduate transfer.
What this says to me is "respect the process" is over. We are in win-now mode and that starts November 11. I've been fine with patience in the name of cleaning things up and improving the image of the program. If that will be eschewed, then we need to be back in the Tournament next year. Anything less would be a failure on the part of the coaching staff.
Let's get back to March runs and lots of wins.
This is fair to me. There has been a lot of leniency with "building things the right way". Once that stops, it's time to play with the big boys again.
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but the kid wanted to keep playing basketball and MU made that impossible.
Why do you take this one sided position? Opinion, or do you have some info that substantiates this. Certainly, if you take Wallys spin on this, yes he likely views it as one sided.
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but the kid wanted to keep playing basketball and MU made that impossible.
I wouldn't be so certain about that.
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What this says to me is "respect the process" is over. We are in win-now mode and that starts November 11. I've been fine with patience in the name of cleaning things up and improving the image of the program. If that will be eschewed, then we need to be back in the Tournament next year. Anything less would be a failure on the part of the coaching staff.
Let's get back to March runs and lots of wins.
Well said brew. The expiration date for blaming the last coach, claiming losses are all part of a rebuilding process, or excusing postseason misses because we're "doing things the right way" has now officially passed. Time to win.
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"Well said?" Whatever. I guess if you happen to agree with Brew then it's well said, right. So you know exactly what happened with Wally. Explain in detail since you have the story. Otherwise, just shut the hell up or find a team that you can go "win now" with. I think Wojo is going to get it done, but a lot of things need to fall into place. The league is tough and we need to stay healthy, find chemistry with our new recruits, and have guys show maturity in their game. Even with that, we need to make plays in the close games next year to finish in the top six in the league. That's just reality! Whatever the case, I'm a Marquette fan.
GO MU!
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So I was going to make a joke about "The Dukiet-Crean Era," and when I was Googling for the exact dates, I came across this:
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1989/03/17/page/82/article/marquette-decides-to-dump-dukiet
First I came across this little tidbit of information, and holy shnikes... I never thought I'd say this, but think of the sh|tstorm (to put it mildly) MU avoided by hiring Crean.
Can't believe I actually read that link in its entirety...interesting quote from John Ellenson about Dukiet's lack of communication. Also, note that "Syracuse assistant Bernie Fine" was being considered for the job. Whew, talk about dodging bullets.
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To answer the question... Wallet was a good athlete, but, we need better to compete in the Big East. It makes sense that he chose track.
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"Well said?" Whatever. I guess if you happen to agree with Brew then it's well said, right. So you know exactly what happened with Wally. Explain in detail since you have the story. Otherwise, just shut the hell up or find a team that you can go "win now" with. I think Wojo is going to get it done, but a lot of things need to fall into place. The league is tough and we need to stay healthy, find chemistry with our new recruits, and have guys show maturity in their game. Even with that, we need to make plays in the close games next year to finish in the top six in the league. That's just reality! Whatever the case, I'm a Marquette fan.
GO MU!
I'm a Marquette fan too. You gotta have your head in the sand to not at least admit this is sketchy, but hey, it's what big time hoops programs do. They get to the postseason too, so let's get back to doing that as well.
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My position is this. I'm not a fan of how Wally was dismissed. We can banter about all the pluses and minuses, but the kid wanted to keep playing basketball and MU made that impossible. Wally will be okay and I don't expect long-term negative ramifications, but it leaves a sour taste. We could have used the Reinhardt scholarship on a big, we could have sent someone packing who could retain eligibility, we could have better prepared him to make sure he was eligible to leave as a graduate transfer.
What this says to me is "respect the process" is over. We are in win-now mode and that starts November 11. I've been fine with patience in the name of cleaning things up and improving the image of the program. If that will be eschewed, then we need to be back in the Tournament next year. Anything less would be a failure on the part of the coaching staff.
Let's get back to March runs and lots of wins.
Agree completely.
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I'm a Marquette fan too. You gotta have your head in the sand to not at least admit this is sketchy, but hey, it's what big time hoops programs do. They get to the postseason too, so let's get back to doing that as well.
Why is it sketchy? Wally was cut. He was cut because there are 14 people interested in playing for Marquette basketball and he was the worst of them. This happens at every level of basketball from the professionals all the way down to high school. Despite being cut, Wojo went out of his way to make sure Wally still had a scholarship to attend Marquette for free. That's better than 99% of other players who get cut from their teams. The way I see it, Wojo and Marquette showed incredible class to take care of Wally like that. It still sucks that he got cut. I get that. But no one likes being told they are the worst player on their team. But someone has to be.
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Well, I may have been misinformed by someone that is on the inside looking out. That's right! I will stick with the information that has credibility. Too many on these boards think they know what is going on, and they are the ones with their heads in the sand.
The overall Marquette fan base has become pathetic and incredibly critical. They have a "What have you done for me lately" mentality. The program must "reach my inflated expectations or else!" Very sad, and people wonder why Crean and Buzz left.
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Wojo's job is do what's best for MU men's basketball, period. He's been entrusted to build the best team he can build year in and year out. Choosing to keep a lesser player around when there are better options is what would only lead to his demise as MU coach. I don't think there's much question Reinhardt is an upgrade in talent over Wally. Same for Gill for Wally if that's what happens. Long term, maybe even short-term to, Young for Wally holds true as well.
Nobody knows how Wojo sold Wally on transferring to MU. But it didn't work out. That's life, all of us have disappointments. For all we know from the outside looking in, Wojo maybe was as disappointed in Wally's play this year and that he didn't play well enough to earn more minutes, as much as Wally is disappointed if he was in fact told they're moving on with other options. To me, it boils down to he just wasn't good enough to earn minutes over other guys this past year. So what's Wojo's sin there? Wally still played more games and more minutes than he ever got at Minnesota under Wojo.
Reality for Wally is, he's just not a big time D-1 player. If he was, he'd land somewhere else to play basketball next season without any problem. Programs would be lining up now to get him in their school, sure seems doubtful that's happening in any way, shape, or form right now. If it is, it's obviously a very well kept secret.
We've just become a society where everyone it seems wants to claim victim status. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger is 100% true.
What were Wojo's options here? Tell him we still want you back Wally and he plays at best uneven minutes again next year, when the roster is unquestionably deeper and more experienced? Then he is a jerk choosing that option.
Wojo did the right thing and what's best for our program. If he was truly giving Wally a raw deal and used him to get his more talented brother, other programs would snap Wally up in a minute. Wally will be fine. This level of basketball was just not for him.
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It is not little league or grade school. It is the head coach's responsibility to play the 13 best players period.
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Wojo's job is do what's best for MU men's basketball, period. He's been entrusted to build the best team he can build year in and year out. Choosing to keep a lesser player around when there are better options is what would only lead to his demise as MU coach. I don't think there's much question Reinhardt is an upgrade in talent over Wally. Same for Gill for Wally if that's what happens. Long term, maybe even short-term to, Young for Wally holds true as well.
Nobody knows how Wojo sold Wally on transferring to MU. But it didn't work out. That's life, all of us have disappointments. For all we know from the outside looking in, Wojo maybe was as disappointed in Wally's play this year and that he didn't play well enough to earn more minutes, as much as Wally is disappointed if he was in fact told they're moving on with other options. To me, it boils down to he just wasn't good enough to earn minutes over other guys this past year. So what's Wojo's sin there? Wally still played more games and more minutes than he ever got at Minnesota under Wojo.
Reality for Wally is, he's just not a big time D-1 player. If he was, he'd land somewhere else to play basketball next season without any problem. Programs would be lining up now to get him in their school, sure seems doubtful that's happening in any way, shape, or form right now. If it is, it's obviously a very well kept secret.
We've just become a society where everyone it seems wants to claim victim status. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger is 100% true.
What were Wojo's options here? Tell him we still want you back Wally and he plays at best uneven minutes again next year, when the roster is unquestionably deeper and more experienced? Then he is a jerk choosing that option.
Wojo did the right thing and what's best for our program. If he was truly giving Wally a raw deal and used him to get his more talented brother, other programs would snap Wally up in a minute. Wally will be fine. This level of basketball was just not for him.
Hutch, while I've offered my views on this I just wanted to clarify one thing for you. Wojo's decision to cut Wally effectively ended his basketball career. One must use their eligibility up in 5 years (except for rare exceptions like OTule). Because Wally is not in a position to graduate this May (or August), he would be required to sit out next year if he transferred. That would have him utilizing his one year of remaining basketball eligibility in '17-'18, beyond the cutoff window. As some have mentioned, D3 is an option but let's leave out that technicality.
That part does suck a little. But many would say it's a price that needed to be paid. Remember that he has been afforded the opportunity to finish his degree at Marquette under full scholarship. For many, that fulfilled the moral obligation.
But you know what? I guy named Mike Fons ended my basketball career when I was a HS Frosh. (I sucked and didn't make the team.) And a guy named Jim Haluska ended my football career after my Senior year cause no college was interested in my services. And so it goes.
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Hutch, while I've offered my views on this I just wanted to clarify one thing for you. Wojo's decision to cut Wally effectively ended his basketball career. One must use their eligibility up in 5 years (except for rare exceptions like OTule). Because Wally is not in a position to graduate this May (or August), he would be required to sit out next year if he transferred. That would have him utilizing his one year of remaining basketball eligibility in '17-'18, beyond the cutoff window. As some have mentioned, D3 is an option but let's leave out that technicality.
That part does suck a little. But many would say it's a price that needed to be paid. Remember that he has been afforded the opportunity to finish his degree at Marquette under full scholarship. For many, that fulfilled the moral obligation.
But you know what? I guy named Mike Fons ended my basketball career when I was a HS Frosh. (I sucked and didn't make the team.) And a guy named Jim Haluska ended my football career after my Senior year cause no college was interested in my services. And so it goes.
Yeah, after my post last night, I was reading other posts from earlier in the week and came across this info. And I agree with you that part no doubt sucks. And that does make me more sympathetic to Wally and less a defender of Wojo in all of this.
However, I'll just say after he announced he was leaving Minnesota, it didn't seem like we had a lot of programs to beat out for his services. If someone has info to the contrary about that, I'd like to hear about it. Otherwise, it goes back to where I come down on this that high major D-1 ball was just not for him, and even if he had a realistic chance of playing somewhere else still, doubtful there would be much, if any interest.
Thanks though jsglow.
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I like Wally, but, the team can be better with a more talented recruit. And, we need to improve to compete in the BE.
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Wojo's job is do what's best for MU men's basketball, period. He's been entrusted to build the best team he can build year in and year out. Choosing to keep a lesser player around when there are better options is what would only lead to his demise as MU coach. I don't think there's much question Reinhardt is an upgrade in talent over Wally. Same for Gill for Wally if that's what happens. Long term, maybe even short-term to, Young for Wally holds true as well.
Nobody knows how Wojo sold Wally on transferring to MU. But it didn't work out. That's life, all of us have disappointments. For all we know from the outside looking in, Wojo maybe was as disappointed in Wally's play this year and that he didn't play well enough to earn more minutes, as much as Wally is disappointed if he was in fact told they're moving on with other options. To me, it boils down to he just wasn't good enough to earn minutes over other guys this past year. So what's Wojo's sin there? Wally still played more games and more minutes than he ever got at Minnesota under Wojo.
Reality for Wally is, he's just not a big time D-1 player. If he was, he'd land somewhere else to play basketball next season without any problem. Programs would be lining up now to get him in their school, sure seems doubtful that's happening in any way, shape, or form right now. If it is, it's obviously a very well kept secret.
We've just become a society where everyone it seems wants to claim victim status. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger is 100% true.
What were Wojo's options here? Tell him we still want you back Wally and he plays at best uneven minutes again next year, when the roster is unquestionably deeper and more experienced? Then he is a jerk choosing that option.
Wojo did the right thing and what's best for our program. If he was truly giving Wally a raw deal and used him to get his more talented brother, other programs would snap Wally up in a minute. Wally will be fine. This level of basketball was just not for him.
I agree with this analysis.
Also I would add the following amendment. Wally was welcome to stay on the team as a walk on and continue with track as a walk on. This would require him to pay a year worth of tuition etc. NCAA rules prohibit him from playing basketball while on a track scholarship. So in reality the choice was made by the family to pursue the track only option.
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Gettin back to da original question, this should improve da roster, provided Wojo can improve his evaluatin' of talent, hey?
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Gettin back to da original question, this should improve da roster, provided Wojo can improve his evaluatin' of talent, hey?
Emphasis on your proviso, Yes.
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Da.
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Gettin back to da original question, this should improve da roster, provided Wojo can improve his evaluatin' of talent, hey?
Well, his first full class included Cheatham, Carter, and Ellenson. All dynamic Big East performers after further evaluation.
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So I was going to make a joke about "The Dukiet-Crean Era," and when I was Googling for the exact dates, I came across this:
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1989/03/17/page/82/article/marquette-decides-to-dump-dukiet
First I came across this little tidbit of information, and holy shnikes... I never thought I'd say this, but think of the sh|tstorm (to put it mildly) MU avoided by hiring Crean.
I'm not sure what you're saying given that Crean was hired 10 years after Dukiet was let go.
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I agree with this analysis.
Also I would add the following amendment. Wally was welcome to stay on the team as a walk on and continue with track as a walk on. This would require him to pay a year worth of tuition etc. NCAA rules prohibit him from playing basketball while on a track scholarship. So in reality the choice was made by the family to pursue the track only option.
Excellent point. The Ellenson family pricetag for Wally to play hoops next year would be roughly $50k. Which leads to another question I'm sure someone knows the answer to. Could Wally transfer, walk-on, and play immediately at a D1 if he chose to?
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Excellent point. The Ellenson family pricetag for Wally to play hoops next year would be roughly $50k. Which leads to another question I'm sure someone knows the answer to. Could Wally transfer, walk-on, and play immediately at a D1 if he chose to?
Only if he graduates between now and the fall.
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I think a lot of folks don't realize that Tubby also recruited Wally with his eye on Henry. His first year, he played garbage minutes in the preseason until he broke his hand and was out. His sophomore year, little Pitino put his foot down about participating in track, and Wally left the team so quietly that many of us major Gopher boosters didn't realize he was gone for a couple months.
So, Wally's had a tough D-1 basketball career to say the least. But a lot of that has been due to his single minded desire to play basketball and jump. I'm torn over the way this went down, but Wally got a great year of cutting hair with his brother. Hope he can embrace that and move on.
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Only if he graduates between now and the fall.
But then he could also play as a Grad Transfer.
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I'll be honest and say I didn't have time to read through this thread/article yet, but how it will effect Marquette is they will have a better basketball team next year.
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I'll be honest and say I didn't have time to read through this thread/article yet, but how it will effect Marquette is they will have a better basketball team next year.
You pretty much summarized the article
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I'm not sure what you're saying given that Crean was hired 10 years after Dukiet was let go.
Ha... I meant O'Neill.... Crean was just the end of that Era.