MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: rocket surgeon on February 12, 2016, 07:04:14 PM
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2016/02/12/jim-harbaugh-michigan-jet-travel/80283324/
is this the norm, or what? i mean is this what higher ed is coming to? this is public money, right? maybe i'm just out of the loop, but...
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2016/02/12/jim-harbaugh-michigan-jet-travel/80283324/
is this the norm, or what? i mean is this what higher ed is coming to? this is public money, right? maybe i'm just out of the loop, but...
Think about how many people they cram into the Big House. Michigan makes more off of hot dog sales in the first quarter of the game against Akron than Harbaugh spent on recruiting last month.
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i get that, but when i first heard this, my knee jerk reaction was wait, this is "amateur" athletics. i guess it's just amazing how the game has evolved and the major sports-football, basketball have become the economic foci of higher education. the coaches of these institutions are the highest paid in the school around the country.
it's no wonder buzz became a little bigger than the school-he was the bread winner. he knew that and wanted to call the shots until the upper echelons of MU finally decided enough was enough
oh yeah, and then there's math, science, history, unraveling the mysteries that all started with the big bang-HEY
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Rocket, did you fall asleep in 1978 and just wake up today? This has been how D1 athletic programs have worked for a few decades now.
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i guess it's just amazing how the game has evolved and the major sports-football, basketball have become the economic foci of higher education. the coaches of these institutions are the highest paid in the school around the country.
The guys coaching at state u's are the highest paid state employees in all but 2 states
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Rocket, did you fall asleep in 1978 and just wake up today? This has been how D1 athletic programs have worked for a few decades now.
ummmm...NO, but coaches traveling around in PRIVATE JETS and spending over 100k in a few days? yeah, that
part took me by surprise a little bit. the lengths to which they are allowed to go now keeps gertting bigger and
bigger. live large or go home eh'na? i think part of it is that this info has become a little more public. it may
have been going on for a "few decades", but now i guess i'm seeing why the debate about paying the "amateur
student" athlete keeps on coming up. yes i know we have discussed that on here before. it just seems the
amounts of money being spent today and over the last "few decades" is dirtying up the product.
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ummmm...NO, but coaches traveling around in PRIVATE JETS and spending over 100k in a few days? yeah, that
part took me by surprise a little bit. the lengths to which they are allowed to go now keeps gertting bigger and
bigger. live large or go home eh'na? i think part of it is that this info has become a little more public. it may
have been going on for a "few decades", but now i guess i'm seeing why the debate about paying the "amateur
student" athlete keeps on coming up. yes i know we have discussed that on here before. it just seems the
amounts of money being spent today and over the last "few decades" is dirtying up the product.
You do realize that Marquette coaches travel on private jets right? (At least the head coach does.) I am just amazed that anyone would be surprised by this.
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You do realize that Marquette coaches travel on private jets right? (At least the head coach does.) I am just amazed that anyone would be surprised by this.
again, i think you are mischaracterizing my amazement and trying to turn it back to me as being naive or worse.
it's the amounts of money being spent. does the ncaa need to initiate some kind of cap? i'm not sure how i
would feel about that one, as these weren't things i was thinking about as i posted the topic. they just kind of
evolved as i've been responding here. but for some to be un-amazed by this, well, where is it going? small
colleges-mid-majors-major programs...do we want to continue to see milan vs muncie central? that's all i'm
wondering and no i wasn't born on a turnip truck
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You were the one who admitted that you might be "out of the loop." That is why I assumed you were amazed by this.
And why should there be a cap on any of this? Michigan can do this because they can afford to. Ball State can't because people don't care as much about Ball State football. I have have said this before, that there are too many D1 athletic programs and if a third of them left it would be better for big time college sports.
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You were the one who admitted that you might be "out of the loop." That is why I assumed you were amazed by this.
And why should there be a cap on any of this? Michigan can do this because they can afford to. Ball State can't because people don't care as much about Ball State football. I have have said this before, that there are too many D1 athletic programs and if a third of them left it would be better for big time college sports.
i can't disagree with any of your statements. i was merely bringing this up for a number of reasons-amazement, questions, input, conversation, etc. as noted by my opening remarks/questions. it did get me to thinking that, yes, many of the forces that drive us to succeed are no different in college sports than the business world. i guess for some odd reason, i thought maybe college athletics would have more regulation to what lengths they could go to recruit. they seem to regulate so many other aspects of the game and recruitment-that's all. i wasn't trying to start an argument, just stimulate some gray/white matter
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now i'm not trying to bring politics in to the superbar as i want to respect the establishment here, but going hand
in hand with the amounts of spending going on by these schools, the new gov of louisiana is threatening to close
down the state's public universities if his tax increase and the state's budget shortfalls are not addressed. again, if
we need to drift in to the political aspects of this, we can move it to the other board, or cut it off, BUT, i am only
askingthis because if LSU football program is financially viable in and of itself, why does the governor have to
threaten shutting it's sports down other than political blackmail? if LSU sports can fund itself as opposed to
taking tax money, shouldn't it be left alone? i realize the school cannot function as a basketball, football...
sports institution without the educational part and the fact that all the sports must be offered due to title IX
again, i am only asking this honestly from a $$ standpoint and not political. do college sports need some
kind of cap or limit on spending? of course the private schools would have to acknowledge this also as they are
also part of the NCAA
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/14764642/louisiana-gov-john-bel-edwards-threatens-future-lsu-tigers-football-tax-proposals-passed
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Most of the money spent on recruiting - and big-time sports in general - comes from TV revenues, apparel sales, ticket revenue, etc. To me, that's just the market demanding what it wants.
Where it gets more political is when schools charge mandatory student activity fees to help subsidize this. I remember reading something a while back about some schools that had raised fees quite a bit to help subsidize sports, while others prohibit the school from getting sports revenues out of mandatory fees.
Don't know where LSU falls on this issue, but IMHO the governor might have a point if all students are required to pay more in tuition (under the guise of a mandatory "fee") to help subsidize sports.
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Most of the money spent on recruiting - and big-time sports in general - comes from TV revenues, apparel sales, ticket revenue, etc. To me, that's just the market demanding what it wants.
Where it gets more political is when schools charge mandatory student activity fees to help subsidize this. I remember reading something a while back about some schools that had raised fees quite a bit to help subsidize sports, while others prohibit the school from getting sports revenues out of mandatory fees.
Don't know where LSU falls on this issue, but IMHO the governor might have a point if all students are required to pay more in tuition (under the guise of a mandatory "fee") to help subsidize sports.
LSU is one of just a few universities that receive no subsidies for their athletic options. No student fees, no institutional support, no support from the state.
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
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LSU is one of just a few universities that receive no subsidies for their athletic options. No student fees, no institutional support, no support from the state.
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
Not too surprising that a few big-name schools can do this.
Interesting that some of the biggest subsidies out there are at AAC schools like UConn and Cinci. There might be a message somewhere in there....
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LSU is one of just a few universities that receive no subsidies for their athletic options. No student fees, no institutional support, no support from the state.
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
with that scenario, then how could the gov. hold LSU sports hostage if they are not beholden to tax payer money, except for the fact that i assume school needs to be in session in order for the sports programs to be able to function
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with that scenario, then how could the gov. hold LSU sports hostage if they are not beholden to tax payer money, except for the fact that i assume school needs to be in session in order for the sports programs to be able to function
Because legally the money is "owned" by the State of Louisiana. The state can take LSU football ticket revenue and use it for whatever it wants assuming there isn't a law in place that states otherwise - and that law can be changed anyways.
But more importantly, because the money is "owned" by the State, it still has to be appropriated. In other words, the budget process still has to give permission for it to be spent, even if it is athletic revenue that is spent solely on athletics.
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Because legally the money is "owned" by the State of Louisiana. The state can take LSU football ticket revenue and use it for whatever it wants assuming there isn't a law in place that states otherwise - and that law can be changed anyways.
But more importantly, because the money is "owned" by the State, it still has to be appropriated. In other words, the budget process still has to give permission for it to be spent, even if it is athletic revenue that is spent solely on athletics.
ok, thanks. now that's why i wonder how much the state would allow their schools to spend on sports, including private jets, prostitutes, meals, hotels, etc... in other words, iare the words "spending cap" just around the corner
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Just to bring it around to someone everybody hates....... if the rumors about Bo are true, did the Wisconsin athletic department, and by proxy the Wisconsin taxpayers, help fund his adultery?
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ok, thanks. now that's why i wonder how much the state would allow their schools to spend on sports, including private jets, prostitutes, meals, hotels, etc... in other words, iare the words "spending cap" just around the corner
I'm pretty sure that LSU doles out enough favors to politicians and other people of influence to prevent that from actually happening.
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2016/02/12/jim-harbaugh-michigan-jet-travel/80283324/
is this the norm, or what? i mean is this what higher ed is coming to? this is public money, right? maybe i'm just out of the loop, but...
Yes it is the norm, no it is not public money
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Just to bring it around to someone everybody hates....... if the rumors about Bo are true, did the Wisconsin athletic department, and by proxy the Wisconsin taxpayers, help fund his adultery?
after the fact? yes. but to say the wisconsin athletic dept and/or the tax payers knowingly funded his extracurricular behavior would take some creative thinking.
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I'm pretty sure that LSU doles out enough favors to politicians and other people of influence to prevent that from actually happening.
ok, fair enough, but then along those same lines-again, i don't want this to wander into the political side, but can LSU avoid being shut down, yet prevent gov. edwards from raising taxes on the people? i understand the states budget is in the red(a lot), but LSU sports is right in the middle of this. that means their use of a private jet for recruiting included
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Yes it is the norm, no it is not public money
Then how did they get access to the data?
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Not exactly sure what it means, but for what it's worth, Michigan's football program is a "completely autonomous entity," i.e. although "affiliated," it has no fiscal or legal connection to the University itself.
The way it was described to me by an alum is that they're circumventing a portion of Title IX in keeping the entities separate; they still have to be compliant with Title IX for NCAA purposes (i.e. scholarships), but theoretically, they could spend an unlimited amount of money on the football program without consequence... even though they don't because they have to remain solvent in order to maintain autonomy. Long story short, profitability is what keeps the football program's spending in check, not Title IX. So Harbaugh having a blank check for recruiting is neither surprising nor any indicator of Title IX violation.
Very few programs (perhaps about a dozen or so) actually have the wherewithal to pull this off, but to my understanding, only Michigan does.
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Not exactly sure what it means, but for what it's worth, Michigan's football program is a "completely autonomous entity," i.e. although "affiliated," it has no fiscal or legal connection to the University itself.
The way it was described to me by an alum is that they're circumventing a portion of Title IX in keeping the entities separate; they still have to be compliant with Title IX for NCAA purposes (i.e. scholarships), but theoretically, they could spend an unlimited amount of money on the football program without consequence... even though they don't because they have to remain solvent in order to maintain autonomy. Long story short, profitability is what keeps the football program's spending in check, not Title IX. So Harbaugh having a blank check for recruiting is neither surprising nor any indicator of Title IX violation.
Very few programs (perhaps about a dozen or so) actually have the wherewithal to pull this off, but to my understanding, only Michigan does.
I know Title IX pretty well, and there is no way an institution can insulate itself by having some sort of stand alone entity. And there is no "spending requirement" in Title IX outside of scholarships. The University can give football $10 million to spend on recruiting and $500,000 to softball and that wouldn't be in violation of Title IX. I mean, do you think every head coach has access to a private plane like Wojo?
Now what I have seen at a number of public universities is a separate non-profit corporation that contracts with the University to provide "athletic services." The advantage to this is that they aren't bound by state hiring or compensation guidelines. Wisconsin doesn't do this - it might not be legal. Not sure if Michigan does.
For instance, here is the Wikipedia page on the "University of Florida Athletic Association."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Florida_Athletic_Association
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prostitutes,
I think if it involves student athletes, bachelor parties, or Shriners the correct nomenclature is "Hookers."
If it involves politicians the correct naming convention is "Escorts."
"Prostitutes" is for the man getting a furtive 'Air Start' in the front seat of his Buick LeSabre on 14th Street...
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I know Title IX pretty well, and there is no way an institution can insulate itself by having some sort of stand alone entity. And there is no "spending requirement" in Title IX outside of scholarships. The University can give football $10 million to spend on recruiting and $500,000 to softball and that wouldn't be in violation of Title IX. I mean, do you think every head coach has access to a private plane like Wojo?
Now what I have seen at a number of public universities is a separate non-profit corporation that contracts with the University to provide "athletic services." The advantage to this is that they aren't bound by state hiring or compensation guidelines. Wisconsin doesn't do this - it might not be legal. Not sure if Michigan does.
For instance, here is the Wikipedia page on the "University of Florida Athletic Association."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Florida_Athletic_Association
Perhaps my buddy then was misinterpreting the rationale, but he clearly conveyed that Michigan Football is a standalone entity that is 100% privately funded; maybe it is to get around state employee compensation guidelines/limitations... that would actually make much more sense. There are probably additional reasons as well.
And it looks like Florida may very well be doing something similar.
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I know Title IX pretty well, and there is no way an institution can insulate itself by having some sort of stand alone entity. And there is no "spending requirement" in Title IX outside of scholarships. The University can give football $10 million to spend on recruiting and $500,000 to softball and that wouldn't be in violation of Title IX. I mean, do you think every head coach has access to a private plane like Wojo?
Now what I have seen at a number of public universities is a separate non-profit corporation that contracts with the University to provide "athletic services." The advantage to this is that they aren't bound by state hiring or compensation guidelines. Wisconsin doesn't do this - it might not be legal. Not sure if Michigan does.
For instance, here is the Wikipedia page on the "University of Florida Athletic Association."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Florida_Athletic_Association
I would suspect that another advantage would be to avoid the prying eyes that come with public records laws.
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I would suspect that another advantage would be to avoid the prying eyes that come with public records laws.
I know in a lot of those states, those laws cover related entities like this. It's probably how USA Today got their hands on the airplane records in the first place.
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/the-highest-paid-public-employee-in-every-state/ar-AAehW7S#image=AAebyli|22
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How much would an NCAA Title be worth to you, Marquette fans?
Enough to donate big bucks outside of season tickets and memorabilia?
UM alums are plenty...Harbaugh revitalized the program and they're responding with big bucks seemingly equivalent to their big dreams of an NCAA title and CFB relevance.
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How much would an NCAA Title be worth to you, Marquette fans?
Enough to donate big bucks outside of season tickets and memorabilia?
UM alums are plenty...Harbaugh revitalized the program and they're responding with big bucks seemingly equivalent to their big dreams of an NCAA title and CFB relevance.
Within a day of beating Florida in the Citrus Bowl the U of M alumni General Scholarship Fund machine was hitting everyone up. And I had no problem making a donation.
They have it down pat and know that success in athletics causes alumni to give to the University.
I gave because I believe in rewarding performance and I am excited by what Harbaugh is building in Ann Arbor.
Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for Marquette. Wojo needs to stand and deliver.
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How much would an NCAA Title be worth to you, Marquette fans?
Simple... take what MU raised in the 7-month period ending Oct 31, 2003, multiply by 4, and adjust for inflation.
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Simple... take what MU raised in the 7-month period ending Oct 31, 2003, multiply by 4, and adjust for inflation.
touche