MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on February 03, 2016, 09:43:53 PM
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1. Bigger, stronger, faster.
2. Nothing new, we all know the song by now.
3. Luke and jj showed up.
4. Sandy, oy.
5. Let Heldt wrestle with them for a while. How bad can it be?
6. Why foul down 16?
7. The better team won. Try to steal one from X.
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All I have to say right now is its a travesty what's happened to Sandy.
And JJJ is without a doubt our all around second best player.
Everything else was the norm. Hang around but ultimately get owned by a bigger and stronger team. Can't rebound.
Henry a non factor vs them again.
Luke was a pleasant surprise at least
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My thoughts...this team is soft in every aspect. I'm pissed.
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Hall is very solid. Way better than us. Reminds me of some of those GTown teams.
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I would give the coaching a failing grade this year. Haven't cleaned up the turnovers halfway into the conference season. Wojo will get a redo next year and we'll see, have to hope that he develops as a coach along with the young guys on the team.
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All I have to say right now is its a travesty what's happened to Sandy.
And JJJ is without a doubt our all around second best player.
Everything else was the norm. Hang around but ultimately get owned by a bigger and stronger team. Can't rebound.
Henry a non factor vs them again.
Luke was a pleasant surprise at least
Completely agree with your analysis.
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This team is really frustrating at times. So inconsistent. Also can't see how we compete next year up front. Need more muscle up front. Our guys just looked weak tonight.
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Sandy is lost.
JJJ gave up too many off boards.
Don't give the ball to Traci on the break--nothing good will happen.
DWill getting beat off the dribble is disturbing.
We can be SH next year--good team and getting better.
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MU played tough. Seton Hall was unconscious from deep the last 10 minutes. I liked that we didn't see any smiles from JJJ. He is playing like he is on a mission.
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Bad showing, never tried to change the rhythm of the game and we were overmatched all nite.
Why do people say we have the big front line, I don't think we have the toughness or strength
to match up with many teams in the BigE. No fun watching that game.
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Poor rebounding has to be the most frustrating aspect of the game to watch as a fan. It's infuriating because it's the aspect of the game that requires the least amount of skill. Sack up, put your ass in somebody's stomach, and grab the damn ball. It's all positioning and effort.
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This team is really frustrating at times. So inconsistent. Also can't see how we compete next year up front. Need more muscle up front. Our guys just looked weak tonight.
Yeah that's the main issue. We're honestly gonna have to play Matt at the 4 at this point lol
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Might be time to consider for Wojo to consider whether Sandy plays another minute this season. He appears to be a great teammate but he is getting abused on a nightly basis at this level of competition. He might have been better off at a Horizon school.
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Poor rebounding has to be the most frustrating aspect of the game to watch as a fan. It's infuriating because it's the aspect of the game that requires the least amount of skill. Sack up, put your ass in somebody's stomach, and grab the damn ball. It's all positioning and effort.
That's the issue. We really suck at positioning. Even Henry who averages 10 a game is a poor technical rebounder. He's just tall, long and naturally gifted so he gets a good amount.
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Seton Hall is a very good team. Very physical. We hung for most of the game. Tough to play them in their house. I am proud of our guys. No need to whine. Next game.
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Competed for 30 minutes then gave up a bad offensive rebound that resulted in a 3, followed by an open 3, followed by a wide open 3. From down 3 to down 12 in a heartbeat.
This team can't limit its turnovers, can't rebound and can't defend consistently. A recipe for disaster.
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> MU is an 8th place team. Its ceiling is 6th.
> The turnovers = rerun. No improvement at all
> JJJ tried to lead MU back
> Henry another double double but Delgado's better.
> Du and Sandy shrinking violets.
> This team won't compete until Big East bodies arrive
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That's the issue. We really suck at positioning. Even Henry who averages 10 a game is a poor technical rebounder. He's just tall, long and naturally gifted so he gets a good amount.
Henry is a fine offensive player but the people who say he's ready for the NBA right now are nuts. He would give up 30 a night to any NBA power forward.
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Lazy passes
Too many drives to basket which were blocked
Bigger, stronger
Three happy
The SH guards play good, they are very good team
But play of game was at ten minute mark. MU cut lead to three and had the ball. Cohen went 1 on 4 and got stop offensive foul.
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Henry is a fine offensive player but the people who say he's ready for the NBA right now are nuts. He would give up 30 a night to any NBA power forward.
That's what I keep saying.
There's a very fine line between saying "he can go pro now" and he's "ready to go pro now".
He can get lottery money and he can develop there.
But he ain't close to contributing there.
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That's what I keep saying.
There's a very fine line between saying "he can go pro now" and he's "ready to go pro now".
He can get lottery money and he can develop there.
But he ain't close to contributing there.
For better or worse, NBA GMs don't always care about the latter
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MU really is a 6-man team right now. Other than Carter, no real production coming off the bench.
It was more than just SH bigs, their guards again beat MU up.
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Henry is a fine offensive player but the people who say he's ready for the NBA right now are nuts. He would give up 30 a night to any NBA power forward.
He looked like an NBA player against Butler, but I would generally agree. not a banger yet. Too soft. He can be a lottery pick whenever he chooses, but I'm confident he stays another year. I think he would have chosen a different school if he wanted to be one and done.
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> Carolyn Kieger getting it done over the Hall.
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For better or worse, NBA GMs don't always care about the latter
O absolutely. No doubt about it. Especially in a weak draft too for youngsters.
I'm just saying its OK for someone to come out and say Henry should not go pro from a pure basketball stand point. It's not being a homer. He really shouldn't.
But lottery money? And trying to develop under NBA circumstances? Couldn't blame him.
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> MU is an 8th place team. Its ceiling is 6th.
> The turnovers = rerun. No improvement at all
> JJJ tried to lead MU back
> Henry another double double but Delgado's better.
> Du and Sandy shrinking violets.
> This team won't compete until Big East bodies arrive
Agree with this.
Also, in this league, can you afford to play Duane off the ball? Buzz recruited him to be MU's point. But, since day one, Wojo has never seen him in that spot. His lack of size and physicality is really noticeable out on the wing.
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Another game night, another a*s kicking.
When will it end?
When will "We are Marquette" mean we do the a*s kicking.
I'm old. My heart and my soul can only take so much.
St. Jude, Pray for us.
Holy Mother of Make it Stop, Pray for us.
St. Al of Brookfield, Pray for Us.
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Did we over estimate on guys like Sandy and Swaggy Du? They played against low level competition in WI. Are they capable of excelling in the Big East?
We lose Henry while gaining a transfer and a kid from Point next year. Do we improve appreciably?
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I was frustrated with some of the substitutions. One time in particular in the 2nd half, I recall MU finally getting the ball inside to Fischer who made a good move for a jump hook (he hit numerous, but also missed numerous tonight, but it was there for him). Very soon after, he's pulled for, I think, Sandy. Yikes.
It just felt like the hot hand was pulled quickly tonight.
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Did we over estimate on guys like Sandy and Swaggy Du? They played against low level competition in WI. Are they capable of excelling in the Big East?
We lose Henry while gaining a transfer and a kid from Point next year. Do we improve appreciably?
I don't think that has anything to do with it. Wisconsin has been very good with kids from WI. And other high level WI recruits have excelled in high D1 ball
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Did we over estimate on guys like Sandy and Swaggy Du? They played against low level competition in WI. Are they capable of excelling in the Big East?
We lose Henry while gaining a transfer and a kid from Point next year. Do we improve appreciably?
Perhaps on Sandy, I wouldn't say that with Duane. Sandy played at Seymour & played on a small AAU team (jets? I can't remember) until his final AAU Spring going into senior year with PGE.
He needed a RS badly. Just couldn't afford one with last year's squad
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I would give the coaching a failing grade this year. Haven't cleaned up the turnovers halfway into the conference season. Woo will get a redo next year and we'll see, have to hope that he develops as a coach along with the young guys on the team.
I have been as hard on Wojo as anybody, but at this point I do not think the team's play is his fault. Ellenson and Fischer are very good players, but against certain teams you can see that they do not have the quickness and athleticism of some of the players they are facing. Throw in the factor that the team is very young, you just have to accept that they are going to make mistakes.
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Perhaps on Sandy, I wouldn't say that with Duane. Sandy played at Seymour & played on a small AAU team (jets? I can't remember) until his final AAU Spring going into senior year with PGE.
He needed a RS badly. Just couldn't afford one with last year's squad
Sandy needs to add another 20 pounds and a red shirt, but plays as efficiently as Steve Novak against the cupcakes. The skill is there, he is just physically overmatched. Duane was All Freshman Big East player, a decimal point away from being the leading frosh scorer. Wojo has both playing out of position (along with Haanif). Roster composition is misaligned due to program turnover.
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I'm at a loss on how Marquette can have two near-seven footers in the lineup a majority of the time and manage to continually get out-rebounded by a smaller team. The team has very little energy/drive/desire - they get intimidated and out-hustled routinely against smaller opponents.
And, I'm sorry, but watching Henry out on the perimeter a majority of the time is a waste of his talent. Statistically, Henry is not an outside shooter at this level. He may have relied on that in high school, but in college and probably the NBA, he should stick near the basket and elbows. He should rarely be outside the arc on offense.
I'm very proud of JJJ - he's clearly turned a corner and is determined. He will be the leader next year.
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That's the issue. We really suck at positioning. Even Henry who averages 10 a game is a poor technical rebounder. He's just tall, long and naturally gifted so he gets a good amount.
Been complaining about this from the start of the season and it just has not gotten better. I don't necessarily see a lack of "want to" but there is definitely a lack of "how to." As a team, their rebounding technique is awful. Hasn't improved at all in 3 months. I feel like I'm watching some of the grade school teams I've coached every time get sucked too far under the basket and the ball bounces right over them to the other team.
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Super young = super inconsistent. That's usually the recipe. No surprises from me tonight.
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Men vs boys. Again.
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Sagarin has MU favored in 1 game the rest of the way, and barely (under 1 pt) favorite @ DePaul
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Super young = super inconsistent. That's usually the recipe. No surprises from me tonight.
Actually they have been terribly consistent. Pretty good on defense. Consistently bad on offense. The high turnover rate, win or lose, without improvement, coupled with the rebonding effort just gives back way too many possessions. There has been nothing inconsistent about those stats. I am waiting for them to turn the corner, especially on turnovers. The tempo needs to be a lot slower with the number of givebacks.
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Putting aside all the negatives for a second..
I'm so glad that JJJ is still wearing a Marquette Uniform this year. After 2+ years of negative comments on this board, and transfer rumors -- its rewarding to see a guy really develop, find his role, and see him finally "get it".
He certainly still makes mistakes -- but he is playing at a different speed then the rest of our squad right now.
Cohen will be fine, but he needs to know his limitations. He needs to be our "Bruce Bowen". Sit in the corner on offense and shoot 40% on corner 3's. Then exert all your energy on defense, leaving Haanif's energy for the offensive end.
Cohen hit 6 three's vs. San Jose State. He's hit TWO 3 PTers in Conference play so far (and only 6 TOTAL since that San Jose St game). I still think it'll turn on for him. Just like Jake Thomas. Thomas was a great practice shooter, but couldn't hit during that first year he played. Then eventually, he started hitting - and the confidence came. Right now, Sandy has no confidence.
BTW - the argument that this team needs to play "tougher" needs to be retired. That has been beaten to death. This team is not built to be physical. They are playing with heart. We just need to play SMARTER than the Seton Halls of the conference. With the youth on this squad playing significant minutes, it just hasn't happened.
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Two turning points: Henry taking the fast-break foul and subbing Sandy for Luke. A star player's second foul is much more important than two points. Sandy should only play when a guard needs a breather. I'll take Heldt or Wally over Sandy when a big leaves the floor. You could see sandy's charge from a mile away, and it killed the momentum. Unless Luke was begging for a breather, there is no reason for him to leave the court in the middle of that run.
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Actually they have been terribly consistent. Pretty good on defense. Consistently bad on offense. The high turnover rate, win or lose, without improvement, coupled with the rebonding effort just gives back way too many possessions. There has been nothing inconsistent about those stats. I am waiting for them to turn the corner, especially on turnovers. The tempo needs to be a lot slower with the number of givebacks.
To each their own. One game I see pretty good defense, so-so offense. Next game both pretty good. Next game defense not so great. Same goes for individuals. Just my two cents. Consistency, in my view, comes down to being able to consistently repeat the good things...to be consistently good, or consistently productive. We might be that way for 30 minutes, or for a half, but tough to do it for the game. Can't wait until these guys have another Summer and camp under their belt, another off season of strength, more maturity, less panic, more experience.
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Competed for 30 minutes then gave up a bad offensive rebound that resulted in a 3, followed by an open 3, followed by a wide open 3. From down 3 to down 12 in a heartbeat.
Absolutely the key stretch of the game. When the second 3 splashed down, I was quite sure we were toast.
It was obvious all night which team was better. Frankly, I was impressed that we hung around as long as we did.
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To each their own. One game I see pretty good defense, so-so offense. Next game both pretty good. Next game defense not so great. Same goes for individuals. Just my two cents. Consistency, in my view, comes down to being able to consistently repeat the good things...to be consistently good, or consistently productive. We might be that way for 30 minutes, or for a half, but tough to do it for the game. Can't wait until these guys have another Summer and camp under their belt, another off season of strength, more maturity, less panic, more experience.
I use Pomeroy where MU is 5th after tonight (4th before) on defense. They are ninth in offense with only two games over 100 (average) in conference. They have been consistently poor, caused primarily by turnovers and rebounding on a constant basis, with ups and down on eFG%. Sometimes they can shoot themselves out of the lost possessions.
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Competed for 30 minutes then gave up a bad offensive rebound that resulted in a 3, followed by an open 3, followed by a wide open 3. From down 3 to down 12 in a heartbeat.
This team can't limit its turnovers, can't rebound and can't defend consistently. A recipe for disaster.
Yup. Turned to my son when they had those two shots, missed them both (good defense by us), but couldn't get the board and then they kicked it out for the 3. Then another 3. Those were pretty big.
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Geez, I thought the Warriors were terribly consistent. They scored exactly 31 points in each half. Now that's consistency.
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Yup. Turned to my son when they had those two shots, missed them both (good defense by us), but couldn't get the board and then they kicked it out for the 3. Then another 3. Those were pretty big.
that was the KEY possession. they gave seton hall 3 shots. instead of it being a tie game or 3 pt lead, it became 6 then 9 in about 40 seconds. the last one was a bomb. despite HE pooping out a 10 and 10, he really struggled. fischer tried to keep us in it, but the refs let it get pretty physical. i agree with a previous poster-cohen is really struggling-if he's not in foul trouble, his play is sporadic. then he comes in and throws up bricks. he hasn't given himself a chance to get into a rhythm because he too busy running from the bench to scorers table back to the bench.
we've got 2 seven footers and seton hall kills us on the boards-especially the O-boards. this is where burton would have helped us out-wide/strong body. saw him play pretty well in a loss to west virginia. btw, did anyone else see huggy bears pony tail wrapped up tight into a little ball? wtf?? he looked like a sumo wrestler sans the diaper-oh no, bad bad visual ouch
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That sequence definitely ended the game. We had fought so hard to get back in it, then an eyeblink later it was back to 9.
Once again it's rebounding that kills us. Despite having one of the best rebounders in the game, we don't get near enough from the rest of the team. 40.6% of SHU's misses were pulled down by the Pirates. That's just plain bad.
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Our whole team is skinny. Luke and Henry are 7 foot, but they are not muscular. After those two, every other player is short for their position and skinny. When it comes to rebounding, bet on the bigger, stronger, faster team. This needs to be addressed in recruiting philosophy and the weight room. Wojo needs to break out of the Duke paradigm for recruits and adopt a big east philosophy.
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We have gone from a team of linebackers to a team of punters. We are consistently outmuscled on the boards. It was bad enough early in the year when the whistles were going crazy. As the season goes on and the contact seems to increase our immaturity (physical) becomes more prominent. Luke's silly slap after being beat out of yet another rebound at least showed he was tired of being abused. Time for everyone on this team to get to work.
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Everyone who is happy about JJJ and then critical of guys like Sandy and Duane should remember one thing. JJJ has played more games in a Marquette uniform than anyone currently on the team. In other words, it takes time for even skilled players to figure out college basketball.
I need to see more evidence before I make judgements about how Wojo can develop players. Experience matters.
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Everyone who is happy about JJJ and then critical of guys like Sandy and Duane should remember one thing. JJJ has played more games in a Marquette uniform than anyone currently on the team. In other words, it takes time for even skilled players to figure out college basketball.
I need to see more evidence before I make judgements about how Wojo can develop players. Experience matters.
Yes, it does. That and the lack of size beyond Luke and Henry were my primary reasons for not being optimistic about this team. To completely bastardize a quote from Animal House, ...small, skinny, and young is no way to go through a basketball season, son.
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There is a reason besides more golf, less time needed for recruiting that Bo redshirted the multi-star farm boys, ai'na?
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I've skipped through this thread, so apologize if this has been already mentioned, but I thought the Seton Hall fans chanting "overrated" at Henry any second they could was cute.
This is why New Jersey can't have nice things.
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* I thought the Freshman simply looked like Freshman at times. They are freshman.
* As part of above, am I remembering correctly that HE got called for stupid travelling violations at least four times?
* Sandy in the Sophomore slump.
* As stated already in several posts, we played very hard and were in the game until the (4) Seton Hall 3-pointers in a row and it was game over. On the first trey we made the block & then the stop but just couldn't grab the ball. Unfortunately it's frustrating, but it happens.
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* I thought the Freshman simply looked like Freshman at times. They are freshman.
* As part of above, am I remembering correctly that HE got called for stupid travelling violations at least four times?
* Sandy in the Sophomore slump.
* As stated already in several posts, we played very hard and were in the game until the (4) Seton Hall 3-pointers in a row and it was game over. On the first trey we made the block & then the stop but just couldn't grab the ball. Unfortunately it's frustrating, but it happens.
I am not sure Sandy is in a slump, it would be 2 years in a row now once the Big East started that his game does not fit the style of the league. Can not shot, not even
close on open shoots, and his basketball IQ is not very good. Second game in a row he charged in to players. He does not have a jump shot and his release is to slow.
Sometimes you are what you are, an below average player playing in a league that is above his pay grade.
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I have accepted at this point that our best play during a game is parity with every BEast team due to our lack of rebounding and persistent turnovers. I would like to see progress on the rebounding & turnovers but expect little here forward from a win/loss column perspective. I hope we steal a few and get into the NIT. It would be disappointing to miss the NIT three years in a row.
Making progress on the above will at least give me comfort that it has the potential to not be 4 years in a row.
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I am not sure Sandy is in a slump, it would be 2 years in a row now once the Big East started that his game does not fit the style of the league.
Sandy is definitely not playing at the same speed as the rest of the folks. Usually you see players playing too fast because they can't handle the speed. Sandy does not have that problem. Maybe things will click, but I could see a redshirt being beneficial if he wants starter minutes Jr/Sr year.
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Not a surprising result as the team isn't very good and neither is the coaching staff at this point.
While Henry will likely be drafted in the lottery, he is in no way ready for the NBA. If he gets physically abused by seton hall, the NBA will be orders of magnitude worse. He will likely toil on the bench for 2-3 seasons, get the "bust" label put on him, and not know when/if he gets a decent chance.
the sandy cohen that played solid d on nigel hayes vs. the sandy cohen now are very different players. second year in a row sandy has really fizzled part way through the conference season. surprised wally didn't get more of his minutes.
glad to see jjj playing consistently well the last few games. hopefully he is finally turning the corner
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a lot of folks talking about this team being so skinny, but it is a lot more than that. remember when louisville won the national championship? that team was not physically intimidating at all with the likes of siva, dieng, smith, hancock, etc. however they could shoot the ball, were well coached, and had very good basketball skills
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He needs a trip to the Brett Nelson School of Shooting this summer. He did a heck of a job with JJJ.
Sandy's shot needs to be overhauled. He pushes the ball up instead of releasing it at the top. Takes waaaay too long to get his shot off, and when he rushes, it's almost a guaranteed miss.
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a lot of folks talking about this team being so skinny, but it is a lot more than that. remember when louisville won the national championship? that team was not physically intimidating at all with the likes of siva, dieng, smith, hancock, etc. however they could shoot the ball, were well coached, and had very good basketball skills
They were also long at their positions, ridiculously quick, and strong enough.
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Our whole team is skinny. Luke and Henry are 7 foot, but they are not muscular. After those two, every other player is short for their position and skinny. When it comes to rebounding, bet on the bigger, stronger, faster team. This needs to be addressed in recruiting philosophy and the weight room. Wojo needs to break out of the Duke paradigm for recruits and adopt a big east philosophy.
actually, i did a double take when i saw luke-he definitely has beefed up, but not yet where he needs to be. his upper body looked much improved. henry is naturally strong, but also needs to firm up, i.e. blake g.
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Super young = super inconsistent. That's usually the recipe. No surprises from me tonight.
Actually, the surprise for me has been the poor play of Sandy.
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Henry looked a half-step to a step slow on both offense and defense. He made a crowhop anytime he went to make a cut on offense so the defender knew he was moving. He seemed to be one of the last down the court to set up the offense. On defense he was just a little out of position to get rebounds or to rotate. It was completely unlike most other games this year. I wonder if he's a little under the weather.
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* Luke manned up and played tough. Hope we continue to see that the rest of his career
* Cudos to JJJ. Looks like he has completely bought in to playing within himself. No longer jacks up 3's at every opportunity or makes reckless lunges going for steals and leaving his man wide open
* Duane got absolutely destroyed defensively
* Sandy - wow. His decline had been unreal
* SH must have had an eFG% over 70% in the last 10 minutes. Both credit to them and shame on us.
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Sandy is definitely not playing at the same speed as the rest of the folks. Usually you see players playing too fast because they can't handle the speed. Sandy does not have that problem. Maybe things will click, but I could see a redshirt being beneficial if he wants starter minutes Jr/Sr year.
What's the history of (non-injured or non-transfer) players taking a redshirt year other than their freshman year? I can't think of any at MU or elsewhere, though presume it must've happened (and likely at UW). Anyone else recall any?
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Sandy is definitely not playing at the same speed as the rest of the folks. Usually you see players playing too fast because they can't handle the speed. Sandy does not have that problem. Maybe things will click, but I could see a redshirt being beneficial if he wants starter minutes Jr/Sr year.
If he takes a redshirt year, it will be the result of his transferring to another school.
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What's the history of (non-injured or non-transfer) players taking a redshirt year other than their freshman year? I can't think of any at MU or elsewhere, though presume it must've happened (and likely at UW). Anyone else recall any?
It's incredibly rare. However, there's this ridiculous notion that taking a healthy redshirt season will miraculously make a player better. Sandy will have from April to October to regain his confidence and work on speeding up his shot. If he can't do it by then, another 15 months isn't going to change anything.
The fact of the matter is that Sandy is a very good shooter who has lost his shot and lost his confidence. He's a mess out there right now, in large part because his shot is so slow. He has a place on a BE roster but this team doesn't fit his strengths right now. He has the potential to be a deadly spot-up shooter but that skill is best put to use on a team with players who can drive and kick and/or with a dominant post presence who commands a double-team. This team simply isn't built like that right now and for the second straight season, his offensive limitations have been exposed.
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Might be time to consider for Wojo to consider whether Sandy plays another minute this season. He appears to be a great teammate but he is getting abused on a nightly basis at this level of competition. He might have been better off at a Horizon school.
Ugh. The kid is a sophomore. Don't get me wrong, he looked like crap last night, and has for the entire conference season, but lets not write him off for the future yet.
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we've got 2 seven footers and seton hall kills us on the boards-especially the O-boards.
This didn't happen. Seton Hall had one more offensive rebound than us but we had more second chance points. They got more rebounds on the defensive end because they were shooting it better than we were.
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Once again it's rebounding that kills us. Despite having one of the best rebounders in the game, we don't get near enough from the rest of the team. 40.6% of SHU's misses were pulled down by the Pirates. That's just plain bad.
It wasn't rebounding. They got a lot of o boards but we had just as many and scored more second chance points. Those stats offset. They just shot it better than we did and got to the foul line. As JB often says eFG% reigns supreme.
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400840290
Box score.
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1. Bigger, stronger, faster.
2. Nothing new, we all know the song by now.
3. Luke and jj showed up.
4. Sandy, oy.
5. Let Heldt wrestle with them for a while. How bad can it be?
6. Why foul down 16?
7. The better team won. Try to steal one from X.
Agreed ... especially #1 & #7 .... as with most of our BE opponents this year, to win we will need to "steal" it. But that's what I hope for.
my new formulation for the big dance (aside from winning the BET :) )
@X - L
P - W
C - W
@DP - W
@C - W
V - L
GT - W
@B - W
realistically, we have a chance in every home game but Nova and away at DP & Butler...
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Not really much to say about this game. We were beaten by a better team and a team we don't match up well with. They are too quick and too strong for us right now.
I will say this regarding the coaching. HE seems to me to have improved his defense quite a bit this season, particularly his help defense. We just need some more pieces, particularly at PG (though I think Carter is going to be a good one) and at PF (where we likely don't actually have one for next year).
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If he takes a redshirt year, it will be the result of his transferring to another school.
I don't disagree with this
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Seton Hall has always been a house of horrors.
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Could be worse. Bobby Gonzalez could still be the coach?
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We could beat him.
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Agreed ... especially #1 & #7 .... as with most of our BE opponents this year, to win we will need to "steal" it. But that's what I hope for.
my new formulation for the big dance (aside from winning the BET :) )
@X - L
P - W
C - W
@DP - W
@C - W
V - L
GT - W
@B - W
realistically, we have a chance in every home game but Nova and away at DP & Butler...
Anyone here would have taken 1-1 this week. That is still possible although maybe not likely. St. John's gave them a game so why not us? I'll be cheering the guys on until the end Saturday. Go MU!
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Seton Hall has always been a house of horrors.
I hope this was supposed to be teal.
Otherwise, not to let facts get in the way of a good narrative, but last night was Marquette's second-ever loss away to Seton Hall, and since joining the Big East, MU has taken 14 of 18 from Seton Hall, including 7 of 9 in the Tri-State area (5-2 in Jersey, 2-0 at the Garden).
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I will say this regarding the coaching. HE seems to me to have improved his defense quite a bit this season, particularly his help defense. We just need some more pieces, particularly at PG (though I think Carter is going to be a good one) and at PF (where we likely don't actually have one for next year).
I actually was thinking the exact same thing yesterday when Henry provided some nice help defense several times.
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I actually was thinking the exact same thing yesterday when Henry provided some nice help defense several times.
Henry can come over and block shots but he's still below-average defensively. For the most part, he appears to lack a sense of urgency when playing D. I'm not sure if that's a result of not being overly engaged on D or if it's because he's still learning how to play team D which is causing hesitation.
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Henry can come over and block shots but he's still below-average defensively. For the most part, he appears to lack a sense of urgency when playing D. I'm not sure if that's a result of not being overly engaged on D or if it's because he's still learning how to play team D which is causing hesitation.
I agree that he is not particularly good, but I think he is a lot better now than he was in November/December. I wouldn't be too quick to say he lacks urgency on defense. I think he lacks quickness which makes it appear that way sometimes. Once he's beaten, he stays beaten, where a quicker guy might be able to recover. His footwork on D is improving, though, IMO.
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He lacks quickness. Witness the end of the DePaul game. Witness him guarding the 5'8 kid from Stetson and having to foul him. Still a fan. Still a ways for him to go.
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This team is who we thought they were! Wojo and staff are equally as frustrating as the team. Very disappointing effort once again.
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It wasn't rebounding. They got a lot of o boards but we had just as many and scored more second chance points. Those stats offset. They just shot it better than we did and got to the foul line. As JB often says eFG% reigns supreme.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Yes, they only got one more offensive rebound than us, but they got 10% more of the offensive rebound opportunities than us. eFG% is important here, you're right, but not for the reason you're saying. In this case, eFG% is important because Seton Hall could only rebound shots they missed.
In the game as a whole, SHU outrebounded us 50-31. That means when there was a loose ball, there was a 61.7% chance that a SHU player would get to it ahead of one of our guys. That's rebounding dominance, and on the offensive glass, they got more offensive rebounds in notably fewer attempts (because their shots were going in the basket).
We got our clocks cleaned on the offensive glass again. Not as bad as the last time, but far worse than the 13-12 OReb edge would indicate.
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You're comparing apples and oranges. Yes, they only got one more offensive rebound than us, but they got 10% more of the offensive rebound opportunities than us. eFG% is important here, you're right, but not for the reason you're saying. In this case, eFG% is important because Seton Hall could only rebound shots they missed.
In the game as a whole, SHU outrebounded us 50-31. That means when there was a loose ball, there was a 61.7% chance that a SHU player would get to it ahead of one of our guys. That's rebounding dominance, and on the offensive glass, they got more offensive rebounds in notably fewer attempts (because their shots were going in the basket).
We got our clocks cleaned on the offensive glass again. Not as bad as the last time, but far worse than the 13-12 OReb edge would indicate.
I'm not sure where you got your numbers. Hall outrebounded us 40-31 not 50. And most of those were a product of Marquette missing more shots giving Seton Hall more opportunities to get defensive rebounds. Yes, I know they had a higher offensive rebounding rate, but you missed my point. Despite the higher offensive rebounding rate, we still outscored them in second chance points. They got offensive rebounds but didn't do anything with them, or at least not as much as we did with our offensive rebounds.
The difference wasn't rebounding. It was a combination of eFG% and Free Throw Rate. They shot it better and drew more fouls. They made more FTs than we attempted. Their advantage on the boards wasn't as big of a factor. We are just exaggerating it because the symbolic turning point of the game happened on an offensive rebound. I think we rebounded fairly well considering Henry was in foul trouble for a significant part of the game.
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I'm not sure where you got your numbers. Hall outrebounded us 40-31 not 50. And most of those were a product of Marquette missing more shots giving Seton Hall more opportunities to get defensive rebounds. Yes, I know they had a higher offensive rebounding rate, but you missed my point. Despite the higher offensive rebounding rate, we still outscored them in second chance points. They got offensive rebounds but didn't do anything with them, or at least not as much as we did with our offensive rebounds.
The difference wasn't rebounding. It was a combination of eFG% and Free Throw Rate. They shot it better and drew more fouls. They made more FTs than we attempted. Their advantage on the boards wasn't as big of a factor. We are just exaggerating it because the symbolic turning point of the game happened on an offensive rebound. I think we rebounded fairly well considering Henry was in foul trouble for a significant part of the game.
Oh, just some bad math on my part ;D
They pounded us on the offensive glass again. The play that turned the momentum of the game was spurred by two consecutive offensive rebounds and a Whitehead three that led to our 3-point deficit ballooning to 9 in the span of about 40 seconds. Making shots meant they had fewer opportunities for offensive boards so the ones they got were more significant than the ones we got.
And yes, it was eFG%, but the point about rebounds comes down to a lack of toughness from our team in comparison to Seton Hall, and a huge portion of their eFG% was Delgado brutalizing our bigs with 8/9 shooting inside.
Bottom line, we need to be tougher, we need to keep guys off the glass, and when we are pushed around like that the results are going to be obvious.
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Ugh. The kid is a sophomore. Don't get me wrong, he looked like crap last night, and has for the entire conference season, but lets not write him off for the future yet.
I hope you are right, but he needs to improve absolutely everything except his attitude to succeed in the BE.
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This team is who we thought they were! Wojo and staff are equally as frustrating as the team. Very disappointing effort once again.
MU should do what Al Davis would have done -- fire Wojo. Hell, Al woulda fired him after the Belmont loss. Then he would have hired the replacement, fired the replacement, hired another replacement and fired another replacement.
And then he would have drafted Todd Marinovich, Marques Tuiasosopo and JaMarcus Russell to play PG for us.
And then he would have moved MU to L.A.
Just turn a once-proud franchise into a laughingstock, baby.
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george steinbrenner would have fired him, re-hired him, fired, re-hired, fire.....