MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GGGG on November 25, 2015, 09:00:11 AM
-
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/25/sports/ncaabasketball/freshman-standout-propels-marquette-to-a-title.html?ref=sports&_r=1
-
Very nice. Almost counterbalances the Ben Simmons show on ESPN.
-
I don't understand the highlighted part ...
In recent years, most of the nation’s top college basketball coaches traveled to tiny Rice Lake, Wis., trying to persuade Henry Ellenson to join their programs. Kentucky’s John Calipari, Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski, North Carolina’s Roy Williams and Michigan State’s Tom Izzo were among those who showed up in the town of 8,000 to woo the 6-foot-10 Ellenson, a forward with guard skills.
Those programs would have given him plenty of national exposure, but Ellenson chose Marquette, which is 300 miles from Rice Lake.
That has not stopped him from drawing attention from all over the country.
Are they saying you don't get NBA scout attention at MU/Milwaukee even thought you're playing in an NBA arena? Are they saying NBA scouts are not smart enough to find FS1 on their cable lineup?
Are they saying that NBA scouts, who mostly live in the NYC metro area (according to the broadcasters Monday) are lazy and do not want to travel to Milwaukee (even though their team travels to Milwaukee at least once?)
If they are that lazy, MU just finished two games in NYC, will play again in NYC against St. Johns, in NJ against The Hall, and finally again in the BE tournament. So those lazy scouts that live in Summitt NJ have at least 5 opportunities to see Ellenson play by driving less than 30 minutes from home.
So help me here ... is he suggesting that MU/Milwaukee is akin to isolating yourself in Siberia? The NBA regularly finds guys in China, Croatia and Spain, but somehow finding a talent in Milwaukee is somehow too much to ask?
-
Just the beginning
-
It's just the lead in on an article. A one and done guy choosing Marquette is not normal.
Man up Warriors! Stop seeing everything as a perceived slight.
-
I don't understand the highlighted part ...
In recent years, most of the nation’s top college basketball coaches traveled to tiny Rice Lake, Wis., trying to persuade Henry Ellenson to join their programs. Kentucky’s John Calipari, Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski, North Carolina’s Roy Williams and Michigan State’s Tom Izzo were among those who showed up in the town of 8,000 to woo the 6-foot-10 Ellenson, a forward with guard skills.
Those programs would have given him plenty of national exposure, but Ellenson chose Marquette, which is 300 miles from Rice Lake.
That has not stopped him from drawing attention from all over the country.
Are they saying you don't get NBA scout attention at MU/Milwaukee even thought you're playing in an NBA arena? Are they saying NBA scouts are not smart enough to find FS1 on their cable lineup?
Are they saying that NBA scouts, who mostly live in the NYC metro area (according to the broadcasters Monday) are lazy and do not want to travel to Milwaukee (even though their team travels to Milwaukee at least once?)
If they are that lazy, MU just finished two games in NYC, will play again in NYC against St. Johns, in NJ against The Hall, and finally again in the BE tournament. So those lazy scouts that live in Summitt NJ have at least 5 opportunities to see Ellenson play by driving less than 30 minutes from home.
So help me here ... is he suggesting that MU/Milwaukee is akin to isolating yourself in Siberia? The NBA regularly finds guys in China, Croatia and Spain, but somehow finding a talent in Milwaukee is somehow too much to ask?
I read it as, "Even though he has stayed local, his talent is of interest nationally." A straightforward compliment, nothing backhanded.
-
It may be a little insulting I guess, but it's true. He would have played in more widely seen, more highly promoted games and if we're being honest, possibly in games deeper in the tournament come that time.
I don't take it as a dig so much as just a recognition that those top few teams rule the roost.
-
It may be a little insulting I guess, but it's true. He would have played in more widely seen, more highly promoted games and if we're being honest, possibly in games deeper in the tournament come that time.
I don't take it as a dig so much as just a recognition that those top few teams rule the roost.
Yes more attention from casual fans. But casual fans don't draft players. NBA management, in consultation with their scouts, draft players.
I read this as saying he diminished his ability to get drafted by playing in Milwaukee. And I see this as a backhanded insult against lazy, not very smart, NBA scouts. Talent needs to go to NBA scouts and paraded around them. They are incapable of finding it.
In reality players in China, Croatia and Spain are found and drafted, many of them are even lottery picks. Why is Milwaukee a problem?
-
HE: "This is awesome, to get a championship under the belt with this team,” he said Tuesday night. “It’s just all part of the process. This is the first championship we could win, so we did it. Now we’re just taking that same competitiveness we’ve been competing with these last two days and bringing it throughout the season."
-
Yes more attention from casual fans. But casual fans don't draft players. NBA management, in consultation with their scouts, draft players.
I read this as saying he diminished his ability to get drafted by playing in Milwaukee. And I see this as a backhanded insult against lazy, not very smart, NBA scouts. Talent needs to go to NBA scouts and paraded around them. They are incapable of finding it.
In reality players in China, Croatia and Spain are found and drafted, many of them are even lottery picks. Why is Milwaukee a problem?
Also, it's the NY Times.......MKE is flyover country to their readership.
-
I don't understand the highlighted part ...
In recent years, most of the nation’s top college basketball coaches traveled to tiny Rice Lake, Wis., trying to persuade Henry Ellenson to join their programs. Kentucky’s John Calipari, Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski, North Carolina’s Roy Williams and Michigan State’s Tom Izzo were among those who showed up in the town of 8,000 to woo the 6-foot-10 Ellenson, a forward with guard skills.
Those programs would have given him plenty of national exposure, but Ellenson chose Marquette, which is 300 miles from Rice Lake.
That has not stopped him from drawing attention from all over the country.
Are they saying you don't get NBA scout attention at MU/Milwaukee even thought you're playing in an NBA arena? Are they saying NBA scouts are not smart enough to find FS1 on their cable lineup?
Are they saying that NBA scouts, who mostly live in the NYC metro area (according to the broadcasters Monday) are lazy and do not want to travel to Milwaukee (even though their team travels to Milwaukee at least once?)
If they are that lazy, MU just finished two games in NYC, will play again in NYC against St. Johns, in NJ against The Hall, and finally again in the BE tournament. So those lazy scouts that live in Summitt NJ have at least 5 opportunities to see Ellenson play by driving less than 30 minutes from home.
So help me here ... is he suggesting that MU/Milwaukee is akin to isolating yourself in Siberia? The NBA regularly finds guys in China, Croatia and Spain, but somehow finding a talent in Milwaukee is somehow too much to ask?
It's the NY Times, modus operandi.
-
Yes more attention from casual fans. But casual fans don't draft players. NBA management, in consultation with their scouts, draft players.
I read this as saying he diminished his ability to get drafted by playing in Milwaukee. And I see this as a backhanded insult against lazy, not very smart, NBA scouts. Talent needs to go to NBA scouts and paraded around them. They are incapable of finding it.
In reality players in China, Croatia and Spain are found and drafted, many of them are even lottery picks. Why is Milwaukee a problem?
Aren't you the same person who said any of the graduate transfers we were trying to get needed to come to Marquette over Arizona, Louisville, or others because NBA scouts couldn't get to their games and we play in an NBA arena? Now you're arguing the exact opposite despite nobody saying that was the case, other than you back then? Heise, you didn't even start this thread, it doesn't count towards your click total, you don't need to argue just to argue.
-
HE: "This is awesome, to get a championship under the belt with this team,” he said Tuesday night. “It’s just all part of the process. This is the first championship we could win, so we did it. Now we’re just taking that same competitiveness we’ve been competing with these last two days and bringing it throughout the season."
Right. Hank knows. Scoopers just need to respect the process.
-
Aren't you the same person who said any of the graduate transfers we were trying to get needed to come to Marquette over Arizona, Louisville, or others because NBA scouts couldn't get to their games and we play in an NBA arena? Now you're arguing the exact opposite despite nobody saying that was the case, other than you back then? Heise, you didn't even start this thread, it doesn't count towards your click total, you don't need to argue just to argue.
That was not me.
-
Yes more attention from casual fans. But casual fans don't draft players. NBA management, in consultation with their scouts, draft players.
I read this as saying he diminished his ability to get drafted by playing in Milwaukee.
You read it wrong.
The fact is he is (and Ben Simmons is) getting less exposure playing at MU (and LSU). At Duke, UK or MSU he would have already played in the premier College Hoops event of the year (Champions Classic) plus a Feast Week Tourney.
Exposure = Casual fans
The NBA has known about Henry for years, he could play for UW-Barron County and he'd be a top ten pick next summer.
-
most of the nation’s top college basketball coaches traveled to tiny Rice Lake, Wis....Kentucky’s John Calipari, Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski, North Carolina’s Roy Williams and Michigan State’s Tom Izzo were among those who showed up in the town of 8,000
They must be going there for the pie. Question is did these guys eat pie in the afternoon or evening?
-
Yes more attention from casual fans. But casual fans don't draft players. NBA management, in consultation with their scouts, draft players.
I read this as saying he diminished his ability to get drafted by playing in Milwaukee. And I see this as a backhanded insult against lazy, not very smart, NBA scouts. Talent needs to go to NBA scouts and paraded around them. They are incapable of finding it.
In reality players in China, Croatia and Spain are found and drafted, many of them are even lottery picks. Why is Milwaukee a problem?
Yeah, but they would get more exposure at UNC, Kentucky or Duke. No one is saying Ellenson is going to fall out of the draft but he is not going to get the coverage being on an unranked MU team as he would have by choosing Kentucky and being on ESPN every game. There's no doubt in my mind that being a NChampion at Kentucky is worth an extra spot or two in the draft compared to playing at MU where he might not even get one dance.
-
Yeah, but they would get more exposure at UNC, Kentucky or Duke. No one is saying Ellenson is going to fall out of the draft but he is not going to get the coverage being on an unranked MU team as he would have by choosing Kentucky and being on ESPN every game. There's no doubt in my mind that being a NChampion at Kentucky is worth an extra spot or two in the draft compared to playing at MU where he might not even get one dance.
Or he could go for more points at Marquette per game than minutes he would get per game at Kentucky and move up.
Ask Anthony Bennett how playing at UNLV instead of UK affected his draft stock. Or CJ McCollum for playing at Lehigh.
-
You read it wrong.
The fact is he is (and Ben Simmons is) getting less exposure playing at MU (and LSU). At Duke, UK or MSU he would have already played in the premier College Hoops event of the year (Champions Classic) plus a Feast Week Tourney.
Exposure = Casual fans
The NBA has known about Henry for years, he could play for UW-Barron County and he'd be a top ten pick next summer.
Also, scouts coming to watch MU are mostly coming to watch HE. If he was at Duke, UK or MSU, their would be scouts packing it in at every single game looking at not only you, but your teammates who are mostly NBA prospects.
-
Are they saying that NBA scouts, who mostly live in the NYC metro area (according to the broadcasters Monday) are lazy and do not want to travel to Milwaukee (even though their team travels to Milwaukee at least once?)
If they are that lazy, MU just finished two games in NYC, will play again in NYC against St. Johns, in NJ against The Hall, and finally again in the BE tournament. So those lazy scouts that live in Summitt NJ have at least 5 opportunities to see Ellenson play by driving less than 30 minutes from home.
So help me here ... is he suggesting that MU/Milwaukee is akin to isolating yourself in Siberia? The NBA regularly finds guys in China, Croatia and Spain, but somehow finding a talent in Milwaukee is somehow too much to ask?
Good point. Over half of the players in the last NBA draft were NOT from the Blue chip college programs.
It was just lazy, cliched writing.
-
Good point. Over half of the players in the last NBA draft were NOT from the Blue chip college programs.
It was just lazy, cliched writing.
Thank you ... this is what I was getting at (and maybe did not do a good job). The article left me with an impression that HE's decision to go to MU was as NBA scouts are lazy and he might get overlooked. Neither is true, and a dissection of the article is not necessary, but that the writers' cliches and style left me with this impression.
-
Thank you ... this is what I was getting at (and maybe did not do a good job). The article left me with an impression that HE's decision to go to MU was as NBA scouts are lazy and he might get overlooked. Neither is true, and a dissection of the article is not necessary, but that the writers' cliches and style left me with this impression.
Once a week, baby!
-
Or you know, you could read what he wrote at face value and assume he was saying he would've normally got more exposure at a school like UNC Kentucky or duke. Which is 100% true since those schools are always on ESPN and ESPN is viewed way more than fox sports and ESPN pimps every game for those schools. I see nothing wrong with saying there is less exposure at mu. HE is good enough to transcend that though, which the article states.
-
Or you know, you could read what he wrote at face value and assume he was saying he would've normally got more exposure at a school like UNC Kentucky or duke. Which is 100% true since those schools are always on ESPN and ESPN is viewed way more than fox sports and ESPN pimps every game for those schools. I see nothing wrong with saying there is less exposure at mu. HE is good enough to transcend that though, which the article states.
Or that the general sports fan believes this to be true.
-
Right. Hank knows. Scoopers just need to respect the process.
He needs to post more to earn that respect.
-
Today there are 28 flights a day to and from Milwaukee from NYC.
Milwaukee is not fly over country it is fly to country, enough with the trite clichés.
Back in my day we had one or two flights MOST days. My flight went from Newark to Milwaukee, Madison, St. Paul, Fargo, Winnipeg, those were the days, DC-6 or DC-7, then Electra and finally 707's......
-
Here's the offending quote from the article:
"Those programs would have given him plenty of national exposure, but Ellenson chose Marquette, which is 300 miles from Rice Lake."
I don't think exposure as used in the article was intended to be limited to the NBA. Keep in mind that there is substantial income to be made from endorsements--shoe contracts, athletic gear, razor blades, drinks, autos, etc.
While NBA scouts will travel anywhere to find talent and draft players based on potential, those writing checks for endorsements pay out based on how well known you already are. From that perspective, playing at Kentucky or Duke or Kansas probably will give you more exposure.
Its a fair point--MU probably won't match those programs in exposure, and Ellenson and his family did make a trade off. Good for us he did--and no sleight from the NYT for pointing it out.
-
Here's the offending quote from the article:
"Those programs would have given him plenty of national exposure, but Ellenson chose Marquette, which is 300 miles from Rice Lake."
I don't think exposure as used in the article was intended to be limited to the NBA. Keep in mind that there is substantial income to be made from endorsements--shoe contracts, athletic gear, razor blades, drinks, autos, etc.
While NBA scouts will travel anywhere to find talent and draft players based on potential, those writing checks for endorsements pay out based on how well known you already are. From that perspective, playing at Kentucky or Duke or Kansas probably will give you more exposure.
Its a fair point--MU probably won't match those programs in exposure, and Ellenson and his family did make a trade off. Good for us he did--and no sleight from the NYT for pointing it out.
This does not matter from an endorsement standpoint.
Success in the tourney, likability and potential are what first year endorsements are based on, After that it is all about your NBA performance and reputation. By NBA year 2, college is irrelevant. See Tyler Hansborough and JJ Rednick and their lack of endorsement deals.
See the top endorsements in the NBA. I don't see a lot of blue bloods on this list. I see lots of straight out of HS players (LeBron, Kobe) and I see a MU player (Dwade).
http://www.thesportster.com/basketball/top-15-best-sneaker-endorsements-in-the-nba/?view=all
Point is ... attention that the blue-bloods generate matters in some areas, it does not matter for the point of this article and I don't see what he brought it up. In the end, he is insulting NBA scouts as lazy and not smart implying they are incapable of finding talented players unless they are on Duke and Kentucky's rosters.
-
This does not matter from an endorsement standpoint.
Success in the tourney, likability and potential are what first year endorsements are based on, After that it is all about your NBA performance and reputation. By NBA year 2, college is irrelevant. See Tyler Hansborough and JJ Rednick and their lack of endorsement deals.
See the top endorsements in the NBA. I don't see a lot of blue bloods on this list. I see lots of straight out of HS players (LeBron, Kobe) and I see a MU player (Dwade).
http://www.thesportster.com/basketball/top-15-best-sneaker-endorsements-in-the-nba/?view=all
Point is ... attention that the blue-bloods generate matters in some areas, it does not matter for the point of this article and I don't see what he brought it up. In the end, he is insulting NBA scouts as lazy and not smart implying they are incapable of finding talented players unless they are on Duke and Kentucky's rosters.
So white guys don't get endorsements?