MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: buckchuckler on November 12, 2015, 07:26:03 PM
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First big move. Halos acquire Andrelton Simmons for Sean Newcombe, Chris Ellis and Aybar.
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Braves got a nice haul. Aybar is serviceable and Newcombe could be really good.
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Simmons is elite defensively, and under control for 5 more years, so the Halo's got a good return as well. Seems like a good trade. Though the rumor was the Braves were talking to the Mets about Simmons too and asked for Harvey, which seems ridiculous, but anyway, seems like a good start to the hot stove season.
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As a diehard Halos fan, I am mixed on this. Aybar was a solid shortstop, though his range was declining in the last year. Good bunter, decent slap hitter who would occasionally hit one out of the park.
Thing is, he would be a free agent after next year. Simmons is a defensive gem, but doesn't have the hitting chops.
I don't like giving up Newcombe.
Tonight, Jim Bowden on ESPN said the Mets were asked to give up Harvey or DeGrom, obviously huge ask. Bowden said the trade reminds him of Templeton for Ozzie. People didn't understand it at the time, but in the end taking the better defensive shortstop was the right move.
I'll be thrilled if that is ultimately the case.
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A premier defense shortstop is almost as valuable as anything in the game. If I were a Braves fan I wouldn't be too happy with this move.
Looking forward to an exciting offseason!
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Simmons is elite defensively, and under control for 5 more years, so the Halo's got a good return as well. Seems like a good trade. Though the rumor was the Braves were talking to the Mets about Simmons too and asked for Harvey, which seems ridiculous, but anyway, seems like a good start to the hot stove season.
From the Braves perspective, I read that they felt that Simmons bat is what it is and that while still great defensively he has already showed some small regression in that area. With the bat being below average they felt that if he continues to slip a little year-over-year defensively that ultimately a lot of his value would diminish so they chose to sell high. I can understand that perspective. Could be a solid move for both teams.
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Simmons is elite defensively, and under control for 5 more years, so the Halo's got a good return as well. Seems like a good trade. Though the rumor was the Braves were talking to the Mets about Simmons too and asked for Harvey, which seems ridiculous, but anyway, seems like a good start to the hot stove season.
The Braves didn't really want to trade Simmons within the division but if they were going to, they wanted a HUGE return. It also doesn't hurt to ask for Harvey since he's a prima donna who may be wearing out his welcome in Queens.
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BoSox get Kimbrel. Wow, this is an active start.
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BoSox get Kimbrel. Wow, this is an active start.
Has there been a stranger 4-year run in recent MLB memory than the Red Sox?
A 69-win disaster of a season, fire manager after 1 season, win a World Championship and follow it with back-to-back last place finishes and the GM getting fired.
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BoSox get Kimbrel. Wow, this is an active start.
Seemed like an awful lot to give up for a closer when they need rotation help.
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Seemed like an awful lot to give up for a closer when they need rotation help.
I HATE this trade as a Red Sox fan. They have to do better than a 65 inning per year pitcher for 4 top prospects, 2 of which are regarded as being in the top 50 of all MLB prospect and all of whom project to be major leaguers. I get the two best of the bunch are sort of blocked by Boegarts and Betts, but I'm pretty sure you can move a CF prospect to RF or LF.
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I HATE this trade as a Red Sox fan. They have to do better than a 65 inning per year pitcher for 4 top prospects, 2 of which are regarded as being in the top 50 of all MLB prospect and all of whom project to be major leaguers. I get the two best of the bunch are sort of blocked by Boegarts and Betts, but I'm pretty sure you can move a CF prospect to RF or LF.
It was a pretty good haul for SD.
Most teams are followers. KC has been to the World Series 2 years in a row with a monster bullpen. Teams will try to emulate that.
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I HATE this trade as a Red Sox fan. They have to do better than a 65 inning per year pitcher for 4 top prospects, 2 of which are regarded as being in the top 50 of all MLB prospect and all of whom project to be major leaguers. I get the two best of the bunch are sort of blocked by Boegarts and Betts, but I'm pretty sure you can move a CF prospect to RF or LF.
Just Asking.
Do BoSox fans miss Theo? Does ownership? Will he wear out his welcome in Chicago?
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It was a no-brainer, but Bryant officially ROTY. Well deserved.
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KRod is the Brewer's gift that keeps on giving.
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I see K-Rod's numbers are solid, but I am getting a vibe that Brewers aren't going to miss him all that much. As a Tiger's fan, tell my why I am going to love/hate this guy.
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Just Asking.
Do BoSox fans miss Theo? Does ownership? Will he wear out his welcome in Chicago?
BY the end of his tenure, Theo was like any other big market GM with his ill-advised signings of Carl Crawford, A-Gon and extension of Josh Beckett. Getting out from under those mistakes was big for Cherington. In the end the Sox owners as much as Theo instilled the philosophy that runs the club. He is a good GM and we'd be better off with him than Dombrowski, IMO. But I don't get the feeling that Sox fans are pining for him.
Cherington did the same thing with ill-advised signings of Sandoval and Ramirez that led to his ouster. The Sox are set for a long stretch of being very good, but I get the feeling that Dombrowski is going to kill that future to try to win now.
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I see K-Rod's numbers are solid, but I am getting a vibe that Brewers aren't going to miss him all that much. As a Tiger's fan, tell my why I am going to love/hate this guy.
If you like having a closer come in with a 3 run lead, seeing him give up 2 base hits and a walk, and then getting a strikeout and double play to end the inning, you'll love him. If you don't like seeing your closer come in at home in the top of the 9th in a tie game and giving up a bomb (or 3), you'll hate him. If you like a guy who gets the job done pretty consistently despite it maybe not being very pretty, you'll like him overall.
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If what you say is accurate, then he will be no different than the closers Detroit has had the last several years. Todd Jones, Jose Valverde, Joaquin Benoit, Joe Nathan, committee. Soria wasn't bad, but he was a trading deadline casualty.
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Price to boston. 7 years 31 million aav. Yikes. 1 million per start or so. Yikes. That 31 million will be pretty iffy in his age 35 season. Not to mention his 37 season.
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Price to boston. 7 years 31 million aav. Yikes. 1 million per start or so. Yikes. That 31 million will be pretty iffy in his age 35 season. Not to mention his 37 season.
As a Cubs fan I have no problem that they weren't involved at those numbers, especially one year after signing Lester to a big deal. I'm also happy he didn't end up in St. Louis or on another NL contender.
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Tigers getting Maybin from the Braves for a minor leaguer, and Zimmermann via FA from the Nats. Looks like the new GM is trying to make a name for himself. And he even let his kid go to the White Sox. Starting pitcher, closer, outfielder. The rest is going to be bolstering the bullpen.
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Price to boston. 7 years 31 million aav. Yikes. 1 million per start or so. Yikes. That 31 million will be pretty iffy in his age 35 season. Not to mention his 37 season.
Yeah, but he's good in the playoffs.
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Price to boston. 7 years 31 million aav. Yikes. 1 million per start or so. Yikes. That 31 million will be pretty iffy in his age 35 season. Not to mention his 37 season.
That's about $10,000 for each pitch he throws. I understand that you have to pay for quality, but he most definitely will not be worth the money for the back half of this contract and they are just hoping he stays healthy and is worth it for the first half. I really don't like these long term deals for pitchers, especially 30 year old pitchers.
Well, they should be in the hunt this year. Now, if only they could get rid of LAST year's big FA signings.
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I really don't like these long term deals for pitchers, especially 30 year old pitchers.
Well, they should be in the hunt this year. Now, if only they could get rid of LAST year's big FA signings.
Any deal for a top free agent is a deal with the devil. If you look at last years major free agent signings, many of them are already seen as terrible deals. The BoSox here must be hoping for 4 good years out of him. This just puts an exclamation point on how much value that "young controllable pitching" has. That is why it has been reported that 20 (!) teams have checked in on Shelby Miller. It is pretty crazy.
Price has averaged about 6 2/3 IP for his career as a starter. If he keeps up that rate he will be making about 50K per out recorded. This could be a fun game. Hahaha.
As a White Sox fan, this makes me want to give Chris Sale and Jose Quintana's contracts big hugs.
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Lackey to the Cubs. 2 years. ~32mil
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Greinke to D-backs. Wow
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Lackey to the Cubs. 2 years. ~32mil
Will it be worth watching to see what the cards do with the cubs draft pick? Could be interesting. Lackey looks like a hreat fit at what actually seems to be a cheap rate. Which is crazy to say about 16 mil per year.
Greinke, wow. Every report was dodgers or giants. I think this puts some serious parity in that division. Just crazy money though
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Will it be worth watching to see what the cards do with the cubs draft pick? Could be interesting. Lackey looks like a hreat fit at what actually seems to be a cheap rate. Which is crazy to say about 16 mil per year.
Greinke, wow. Every report was dodgers or giants. I think this puts some serious parity in that division. Just crazy money though
I assumed the Cubs wouldn't be in on guys like Greinke and Price one year after signing Lester and after seeing both of those contracts I have no issue with that. Lackey will probably regress a bit but hopefully can be an effective #3. I do love that it is only for two years, which should give them some flexibility.
The Cubs lose their first round pick but the Cards don't actually get the Cubs pick at that spot - they just got a compensation pick, which they would have gotten anyway regardless of where Lackey signed. Plus the Cubs will recoup a pick when Fowler likely signs elsewhere.
I am stunned that Greinke signed with the DBacks. LA, SF, and St. Louis all need pitching - very interested to see how it plays out.
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I assumed the Cubs wouldn't be in on guys like Greinke and Price one year after signing Lester and after seeing both of those contracts I have no issue with that. Lackey will probably regress a bit but hopefully can be an effective #3. I do love that it is only for two years, which should give them some flexibility.
The Cubs lose their first round pick but the Cards don't actually get the Cubs pick at that spot - they just got a compensation pick, which they would have gotten anyway regardless of where Lackey signed. Plus the Cubs will recoup a pick when Fowler likely signs elsewhere.
I am stunned that Greinke signed with the DBacks. LA, SF, and St. Louis all need pitching - very interested to see how it plays out.
I know they don't actually get the Cubs pick, but I still think it will add some intrigue to the situation. This works out very well for some mid tier pitchers that will be in very high demand and make an absurd amount of money.
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Samardzija to the Giants 5/90.
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Cubs get Zobrist 4/56. They also trade castro, who apparently didn't have much trade value; Adam warren and Brendan Ryan.
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And now the DBacks get Shelby Miller. They have a pretty great rotation.
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Wow, Ender Incairte, Aaron Blair and Dansby Swanson going back to the Braves. That's a pretty nice return.
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Cubs get Zobrist 4/56. They also trade castro, who apparently didn't have much trade value; Adam warren and Brendan Ryan.
Castro traded to make room for Zobrist and save $ to allow for other moves. Warren is an underrated piece, IMO.
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Very active offseason.
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Castro traded to make room for Zobrist and save $ to allow for other moves. Warren is an underrated piece, IMO.
He has value sure, but he is a swingman reliever. Maybe he breaks out at 29 and fits into the rotation or the back of a bullpen, but swingman is where he has flourished.
Trading Castro (26) at 8 mil per year for Zobrist (35) at 14 mil per year is a bit of an interesting challenge trade. Obviously the Cubs think Castro's best days are behind him.
Zobrist has averaged .274/.356/.413 (35 2b, 2 3b, and 12 hr) the last 3 seasons. It isn't hard to imagine Castro surpassing those XBH numbers. Castro is .265/.305/.383 (30/2/12) over the same period. But one player is leaving his prime behind, as the other is approaching his. Zobrist obviously brings better D, and better intangibles. It will be interesting to see it play out. You can count me in the camp that believes this makes the Cubs better next year and the year after. Not sure after that. They are attacking that playoff window, which is all you can ask. Though, I can't believe more Cub fans aren't really ticked. I can't even tell you how many times heard talk about how Castro is destined for the HOF.
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He has value sure, but he is a swingman reliever. Maybe he breaks out at 29 and fits into the rotation or the back of a bullpen, but swingman is where he has flourished.
Trading Castro (26) at 8 mil per year for Zobrist (35) at 14 mil per year is a bit of an interesting challenge trade. Obviously the Cubs think Castro's best days are behind him.
Zobrist has averaged .274/.356/.413 (35 2b, 2 3b, and 12 hr) the last 3 seasons. It isn't hard to imagine Castro surpassing those XBH numbers. Castro is .265/.305/.383 (30/2/12) over the same period. But one player is leaving his prime behind, as the other is approaching his. Zobrist obviously brings better D, and better intangibles. It will be interesting to see it play out. You can count me in the camp that believes this makes the Cubs better next year and the year after. Not sure after that. They are attacking that playoff window, which is all you can ask. Though, I can't believe more Cub fans aren't really ticked. I can't even tell you how many times heard talk about how Castro is destined for the HOF.
Look at the difference in OPS and more specifically OBP. Zobrist is a switch-hitter who will likely be the lead off hitter next year. He brings contact ability to a team that Ks a lot. Castro certainly has more long-term value but he's superfluous on the team and shedding his salary will allow for other moves.
The are looking at a smaller window within a larger window, with Arrieta being under control for 2 more years and Lester being productive for 2 more years.
I don't love the moves but I completely understand them.
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Castro is a sheer money and player dump. The guy was unmovable and on waivers last season.
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I don't love the moves but I completely understand them.
Completely agree, with everything in your post basically.
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So remember when everyone called me basically a blind homer when I said I'd ask for the moon for Sale? Including asking for Urias, Seager and Pederson from the Dodgers? Well, the Marlins reportedly asked for those 3 along with 2 other prospects for Jose Fernandez.
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Castro is a sheer money and player dump. The guy was unmovable and on waivers last season.
Sort of...the money doesn't matter. they needed to clear space for Zobrist, and got some needed bullpen help,in return. More about Zobrist though. Needed him to provide some desperately needed defensive help and lineup flexibility. He'll play everyday and help minimize the defensive shortcomings that lineup was facing by having the likes of Bryant, Schwarber, Soler all in there together.
Theyre still likley to sign a FA OFer, and trade for a SP. I still think a good chance Soler or Baez are moved for an upper half of the rotation SP. lackey helps, but rotation depth is still lacking.
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Sort of...the money doesn't matter. they needed to clear space for Zobrist, and got some needed bullpen help,in return. More about Zobrist though. Needed him to provide some desperately needed defensive help and lineup flexibility. He'll play everyday and help minimize the defensive shortcomings that lineup was facing by having the likes of Bryant, Schwarber, Soler all in there together.
Theyre still likley to sign a FA OFer, and trade for a SP. I still think a good chance Soler or Baez are moved for an upper half of the rotation SP. lackey helps, but rotation depth is still lacking.
Rumors this morning of pretty in-depth talks between Cubs/Rays. Players involved: Cobb, McGee, Baez, Szczur, Villanueva, Vogelbach
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Lucroy and Lind being discussed with the Mariners? Can we send Braun along and pay half of his salary please? Maybe throw in Segura while we're at it?
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Though, I can't believe more Cub fans aren't really ticked. I can't even tell you how many times heard talk about how Castro is destined for the HOF.
Who the hell has thought that? Castro is what he is, a talented hitter who gets hot and makes up for his lazy deficiencies elsewhere. I loved this year when he'd get on a run just when everyone was getting sick of his lack of production, but he's superflous as people have said. I know more people that hated Castro than thought he was the second coming. Maybe when he came up. He showed so much promise.
I will miss his walk up music. Not enough fire emojis to accurately describe it.
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Though, I can't believe more Cub fans aren't really ticked. I can't even tell you how many times heard talk about how Castro is destined for the HOF.
For me, number of times I have heard that Castro was destined for the HOF is zero.
The rest of the post makes a lot of good points. Castro is still young, and can be a solid player for years after Zobrist is ineffective. One thing Zobrist brings is leadoff ability, meaning the Cubs can search for a CF who doesn't have to bat first.
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Who the hell has thought that? Castro is what he is, a talented hitter who gets hot and makes up for his lazy deficiencies elsewhere. I loved this year when he'd get on a run just when everyone was getting sick of his lack of production, but he's superflous as people have said. I know more people that hated Castro than thought he was the second coming. Maybe when he came up. He showed so much promise.
I will miss his walk up music. Not enough fire emojis to accurately describe it.
Were you around after his 200 hit season (age 21)? It was all the rage to talk about him as a future HOFer. I believe B&B spent a great deal of time talking about it on the Score. I remember the conversation well because that is just about when I decided that I was done listening to those clowns.
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Were you around after his 200 hit season (age 21)? It was all the rage to talk about him as a future HOFer. I believe B&B spent a great deal of time talking about it on the Score. I remember the conversation well because that is just about when I decided that I was done listening to those clowns.
Well there we go, as I said, there was excitement about his promise early, but I don't listen to much Chicago sports radio, cause I can't stand Chicago meatball sports fans, and I say that as a fan. Just more referring to the years since. Same as the idiots who were slobbering over Soriano when he was first signed but weren't sad to see him go.
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Were you around after his 200 hit season (age 21)? It was all the rage to talk about him as a future HOFer. I believe B&B spent a great deal of time talking about it on the Score. I remember the conversation well because that is just about when I decided that I was done listening to those clowns.
So you're saying it was incorrect to project a 21 year-old, who in his first full major league season had 207 hits, made the all-star team and got MVP votes as a potential hall of famer? His downfalls were defense and personal life, things you thought could have been cleaned up, but weren't.
I'd say that it certainty should have been the rage to talk about Castro as a HOFer.
Most similar players through the age of 25:
Jim Fregosi (945)
Edgar Renteria (939)
Zoilo Versalles (927)
Alan Trammell (922)
Robin Yount (917) *
Travis Jackson (912) *
Jose Reyes (911)
Bill Mazeroski (909) *
Dick Bartell (906)
Jimmy Rollins (906)
There's three HOFers and Fregosi would have been one if not for injuries.
I wasn't talking Starlin would be a HOFer, but to say a conversation at that point wasn't warranted isn't correct. Same thing everyone wanted to do with Abreu last season.
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Were you around after his 200 hit season (age 21)? It was all the rage to talk about him as a future HOFer. I believe B&B spent a great deal of time talking about it on the Score. I remember the conversation well because that is just about when I decided that I was done listening to those clowns.
Young guys that can hit (even undisciplined young guys who can hit) are rare and really coveted. Castro could hit. If only, the logic went, he can learn the strike zone - he'll be a superstar. Not only didn't he learn plate discipline, he still doesn't even know how many outs there are a good deal of the time. He's the antithesis of a guy like Zobrist, where the whole is substantially greater than the sum of the parts. Theo has been trying to dump him for some time.
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So you're saying it was incorrect to project a 21 year-old, who in his first full major league season had 207 hits, made the all-star team and got MVP votes as a potential hall of famer?
Yes. I think it is downright stupid to talk about any player as a HOFer after 1 season. Just like you shouldn't talk MVP seasons in April.
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Sox get former Brewer farm hand Brett Lawrie from Oakland for 2 minor league pitchers. I like the deal from the Sox perspective. Definitely an upgrade at 3B, while surrendering a guy with a ceiling of a 7/8th inning guy in Wendelken, and Erwin, who could be a starter, but is a few years off, and a bit down on the Sox depth chart in terms of pitching prospects.
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Red Sox trade Wade Miley and get a young power bullpen arm (Carson Smith). I did not like the Kimbrel trade, because I think they gave up too much, but I really like this one. Now, with Uehara, Smith and Kimbrel, they have the kind of bullpen depth they haven't had in ages, with Tazawa able to fill in when someone needs a rest. Miley's a league average pitcher but is good for 200 IP/year, which is nothiing to sneeze at, but the Sox have a bunch of guys who could be league-average types to fill the void after Price, Porcello and Buchholz.
I always like trades where you get younger and cheaper, too.
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Cubs get Zobrist 4/56. They also trade castro, who apparently didn't have much trade value; Adam warren and Brendan Ryan.
Zobrist is a nice player but $56M is too much for a 34yo utility man who's trending downward. Maddon LOVES baseball "switchables" though.
Castro was the type of player who was never as good as he should have been but never as bad as some made him out to be. He was a free-swinger who could really hit, but once the Cubs decided he needed to draw more walks, it got in his head and he became wildly inconsistent. He's definitely an upgrade at 2B for the Yankees. I could see him becoming a perennial All-Star 2B there...or having a tumultuous stretch and becoming a journeyman.
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Zobrist is a nice player but $56M is too much for a 34yo utility man who's trending downward. Maddon LOVES baseball "switchables" though.
The money doesn't matter. They're going to get the couple good years they need out of him, and if they're lucky another decent year or two. Years three and four are what the market said he cost, but that isn't what they're paying for. He fills some significant needs in terms of defense and OBP, and he comes off the books in time to start paying some of their core guys.
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Tigers needs: Starting pitching Check (Zimmerman, Pelphrey) I think they overpaid for Pelphrey, but he is a solid 4-5 starter.
Improved Bullpen Check (K-Rod, Lowe, Wilson)
Corner Outfielder Check (Maybin) though I suspect there will be another one.
Veteran catcher Check (The biggest name out there. Salta....Saltama....aw, hell.)
Avila, the new GM had done this all by December 10, while letting his son walk. (Thanks, White Sox. He is your .200 hitting problem now) Of course, this is all just paper right now and they still need to perform, but this is a really nice start. All without giving up any important pieces.
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Castro is a sheer money and player dump. The guy was unmovable and on waivers last season.
Reallocating money and opening 2B was part of it but too many people are underestimating Adam Warren. There is real value there.
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Heyward to the 2016 World Series Champions Chicago Cubs
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Heyward to the 2016 World Series Champions Chicago Cubs
+1
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+1
-1. The offense was not the problem, and John Lackey doesn't do a whole lot.
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-1. The offense was not the problem, and John Lackey doesn't do a whole lot.
Heyward's big WAR doesn't come from his bat.
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-1. The offense was not the problem, and John Lackey doesn't do a whole lot.
Not sure what to think about Heyward. He's a young outstanding fielder who looks the part, but he's also inconsistent at the plate, strikes out a decent amount and, statistically-speaking, he's comparable to guys like Mike Davis, Mark Whiten, Lloyd Moseby and Jeffrey Hammonds.
He's only 26 though. He could end up with his jersey number hanging from a foul pole in Wrigley or he could end up being a vastly overpaid Seth Smith.
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-1. The offense was not the problem, and John Lackey doesn't do a whole lot.
Priceless.
Of course any team can win it all once the playoffs start but the Cubs are a legit World Series contender.
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Heyward is a plus defender and a near perfect #6 hitter in a line up. I was feeling good about the Tigers, but the Cubs have really stepped up.
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Heyward $184/8yrs (avg $23M per)
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Heyward $184/8yrs (avg $23M per)
Has any type of opt-out been publicized? Obviously a huge contract but I can live with it as a fan. I actually see him and Zobrist batting 1st and 2nd or vice-versa to start the season.
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Heyward $184/8yrs (avg $23M per)
The Nationals offered him more. Upwards of 200M. Interesting he took nearly $20M less.
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Has any type of opt-out been publicized? Obviously a huge contract but I can live with it as a fan. I actually see him and Zobrist batting 1st and 2nd or vice-versa to start the season.
Not that I've seen. That was the reported dollar amount. The Cubs have not officially confirmed.
Potential Line-up
1. Zobrist 2B
2. Heyward CF
3. Bryant 3B
4. Rizzo 1B
5. Soler RF
6. Schwarber LF
7. Montero C
8. Pitcher
9. Russell SS
Yikes.
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Heyward's mentions on Twitter are ridiculous right now. Not that they are representative of the entire fan base, but way to stay classy Cards fans.
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Priceless.
Of course any team can win it all once the playoffs start but the Cubs are a legit World Series contender.
Who said they weren't contenders? They were World Series contenders last year. I personally don't think Zobrist, Lackey, and Heyward guarantee a World Series championship, and I'll take the field.
If anything here is "priceless" it's a fanbase that hasn't seen a World Series in 108 years and counting claiming to be 2016 World Series champions in December of 2015.
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Two opt outs in deal. First is after three years and it's a club opt out
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Two opt outs in deal. First is after three years and it's a club opt out
That's really nice for the Cubs. Then again, money isn't the issue for the Cubs.
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-1. The offense was not the problem, and John Lackey doesn't do a whole lot.
Cubs were 3rd in ERA in the MLB last year, 3rd in W, 1st in Ks, 1st in BA against...so besides lack of a VETERAN 3rd Starter (which I think Lackey can fill), I am not 100% going to blame pitching and welcome a guy like Heyward.
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Who said they weren't contenders? They were World Series contenders last year. I personally don't think Zobrist, Lackey, and Heyward guarantee a World Series championship, and I'll take the field.
If anything here is "priceless" it's a fanbase that hasn't seen a World Series in 108 years and counting claiming to be 2016 World Series champions in December of 2015.
Come on....who actually guaranteed a champion? I know more than anyone they are not guaranteed a championship, let alone a playoff spot (see 2004). The Cubs are a better team right now than they were yesterday and that is reason to be happy.
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Two opt outs in deal. First is after three years and it's a club opt out
If true, that's fantastic. Of course, I haven't seen what he's getting those first three years.
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If true, that's fantastic. Of course, I haven't seen what he's getting those first three years.
I lied. It's a player opt-out in year 3 and year 4 tied to number of plate appearances. Hearing ~18mil first 3 years.
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Cubs were 3rd in ERA in the MLB last year, 3rd in W, 1st in Ks, 1st in BA against...so besides lack of a VETERAN 3rd Starter (which I think Lackey can fill), I am not 100% going to blame pitching and welcome a guy like Heyward.
What was their downfall in the Playoffs?
Regular season pitching staffs and Playoff pitching staffs are much different.
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Two opt outs in deal. First is after three years and it's a club opt out
Read that both opt-outs are player options, which would make more sense. I'm still good with that.
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Heyward's mentions on Twitter are ridiculous right now. Not that they are representative of the entire fan base, but way to stay classy Cards fans.
Again, not representative of their entire fan base, but @BestFansStLouis highlights the low of the low of the Cardinals fan base.
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What was their downfall in the Playoffs?
Regular season pitching staffs and Playoff pitching staffs are much different.
So if they signed David Price, would you have made the same argument? You wouldn't take Kershaw on your team based on that argument.
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What was their downfall in the Playoffs?
Regular season pitching staffs and Playoff pitching staffs are much different.
But how did KC beat the Mets then? Their starting pitching in the playoffs is not any better than what the Cubs will roll out to start 2016.
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-1. The offense was not the problem, and John Lackey doesn't do a whole lot.
8 runs in 4 games against the Mets.
I'd say offense was the problem in that series (although I do attribute it more to the Mets pitching).
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8 runs in 4 games against the Mets.
I'd say offense was the problem in that series (although I do attribute it more to the Mets pitching).
Bingo. You made it a side note, but you got to it.
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But how did KC beat the Mets then? Their starting pitching in the playoffs is not any better than what the Cubs will roll out to start 2016.
1) The Mets defense gave up runs.
2) The Royals had the best bullpen in baseball. While most teams are sweating it out to get to the 8th, the Royals needed to get through 5 innings and their bullpen could completely lock it down from there. The 3rd time through a lineup is where teams get to solid but not great starting pitchers. For the Royals, their starters didn't need to go through the lineup the 3rd time. Not many teams have that luxury.
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1) The Mets defense gave up runs.
2) The Royals had the best bullpen in baseball. While most teams are sweating it out to get to the 8th, the Royals needed to get through 5 innings and their bullpen could completely lock it down from there. The 3rd time through a lineup is where teams get to solid but not great starting pitchers. For the Royals, their starters didn't need to go through the lineup the 3rd time. Not many teams have that luxury.
And that's why you don't overreact based on what happens in a playoff series. Again, once you get there it's a crapshoot. You just have to get there consistently.
If you we're a GM you'd overreact based on who won it all each year.
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And that's why you don't overreact based on what happens in a playoff series. Again, once you get there it's a crapshoot. You just have to get there consistently.
If you we're a GM you'd overreact based on who won it all each year.
He'd be signing Daniel Murphy, no doubt.
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8 runs in 4 games against the Mets.
I'd say offense was the problem in that series (although I do attribute it more to the Mets pitching).
100 percent correct. And that I attribute to youth.
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He'd be signing Daniel Murphy, no doubt.
Stunning the best bat in the postseason is not highly sought after.
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1) The Mets defense gave up runs.
So did the Mets pitchers. The amount of swings and misses by Cub hitters was steggering. The Royals made consistent and solid contact.
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And that's why you don't overreact based on what happens in a playoff series. Again, once you get there it's a crapshoot. You just have to get there consistently.
If you we're a GM you'd overreact based on who won it all each year.
Yeah ask the Royals how much of a crapshoot it is. Or the Yankees when they were 3 peating.
There is nothing "crapshoot" about it. The Brewers in 2011 and the Cubs this past season were almost identical. Mash the ball in the heat of summer, have 1 true ace and a solid second starter, guys who can hit up and down the lineup. When the weather gets cold and you're facing star pitching every night what happens? Oh, the ball dies and you can no longer hit balls 425 feet every 3rd inning. Those teams flame out in October every single year. That's not a "crapshoot."
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He'd be signing Daniel Murphy, no doubt.
Now you think I'm Doug Melvin?
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Yeah ask the Royals how much of a crapshoot it is. Or the Yankees when they were 3 peating.
There is nothing "crapshoot" about it. The Brewers in 2011 and the Cubs this past season were almost identical. Mash the ball in the heat of summer, have 1 true ace and a solid second starter, guys who can hit up and down the lineup. When the weather gets cold and you're facing star pitching every night what happens? Oh, the ball dies and you can no longer hit balls 425 feet every 3rd inning. Those teams flame out in October every single year. That's not a "crapshoot."
Once again, if you don't think the MLB playoffs are a crapshoot once you get there you have no clue.
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So did the Mets pitchers. The amount of swings and misses by Cub hitters was steggering. The Royals made consistent and solid contact.
And a couple more solid OBP guys added in Zobrist and Heyward. With added experience the young guys hopefully whiff less moving forward, even though that will always be a big factor for some of them.
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Color me unimpressed with the Cubs moves.
They threw lots of money at a journeyman and a 6 hitter
It may work out, but history has its own story to tell
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Color me unimpressed with the Cubs moves.
They threw lots of money at a journeyman and a 6 hitter
It may work out, but history has its own story to tell
Quiet. Baseball is a crapshoot. It's just one giant coincidence that every October teams with the best pitching big boy teams that mash the ball all over the yard in June, July, and August.
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Quiet. Baseball is a crapshoot. It's just one giant coincidence that every October teams with the best pitching big boy teams that mash the ball all over the yard in June, July, and August.
Five of the last 10 WS champs have been first or second in their respective league in runs scored. (Basically every winner except SF and KC).
2013 BOS #1
2011 STL #1
2009 NYY #1
2008 PHI #2
2007 BOS #2
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Color me unimpressed with the Cubs moves.
They threw lots of money at a journeyman and a 6 hitter
It may work out, but history has its own story to tell
Give me a break. They made the good moves based on available talent. They weren't gonna pay $20MM+ a year for Cueto or Price when they had Lester on a big deal and still might pay Arrieta later. They paid $16MM a year for a proven arm with playoff experience and success when a guy like Samardzija has neither and just came off the worst year of his career and got $18MM. And Heyward provides WAR in ways that the current Cubs lineup doesn't and was wanted by multiple contenders. Zobrist isn't going to set the world on fire but he's a consistent bat and glove that can slide in multiple spots.
And who is the journeyman? Zobrist who had played for 2 teams until he got traded at the deadline or Lackey who had played for 3 teams in 12+ year career?
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Furthermore, Lackey's contract is only two years. Heyward can (and probably will) opt out after three years, plus he was #15 in WAR in the entire MLB and only 26 years old. These are very low risk moves with potentially high return. They aren't tying themselves to lengthy contracts by any means.
The Zobrist move is one that is a bit of a head scratcher. A four year deal to a guy in his mid 30s? I wonder how much this had to do with his relationship with Maddon.
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The Zobrist move is one that is a bit of a head scratcher. A four year deal to a guy in his mid 30s? I wonder how much this had to do with his relationship with Maddon.
I think when people are excited about the Cubs offseason, its not thinking the Cubs are geniuses for the Zobrist move. But I think you're right, its a lot to do with Maddon and Maddon's knowledge of his flexibility. Also, can't hurt to have an versatile, experienced guy with a ring in the clubhouse with all the young talent. I'm looking at him as Mark Derosa 2.0
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Big Sox deal coming up.
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Big Sox deal coming up.
Yep.
To White Sox: Todd Frazier
To Dodgers: Trayce Thompson, Micah Johnson, Frankie Montas
To Reds: Jose Peraza, Scott Schebler, Brandon Dixon
Sox gave up a lot here, which would be OK if Frazier pans out. Their recent history of acquiring sluggers not named Jose Abreu scares me, though.
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Sox trying to string things together instead of doing what the Cubs did, and what the Brewers are doing, in blowing it all up and starting from scratch.
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Big Sox deal coming up.
The Sox biggest "move" would be having their current players live up to career stats next season. If Melky, LaRoche, etc., play like they did in '15, adding the ToddFather is not going to matter.
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The Sox biggest "move" would be having their current players live up to career stats next season. If Melky, LaRoche, etc., play like they did in '15, adding the ToddFather is not going to matter.
Adding an all star slugging 3b will certainly matter. I think this is a great move. They basically gave up organizational depth, albeit with upside for a major need. They have revamped their IF pretty significantly. Love it. Now even if they are stuck with LaRoche he is hitting 7th instead of 4th. With Abreu, Frazier and Lawrie they should have what, 80 homers on the infield. Quite a bit better than the 50 or so they got last year.
They have upgrade the offense without sacrificing the pitching, which I think is pretty great.
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The Sox biggest "move" would be having their current players live up to career stats next season. If Melky, LaRoche, etc., play like they did in '15, adding the ToddFather is not going to matter.
In all fairness, after very slow start, Melky wasn't far off his career averages last year.
LaRoche was a dumpster fire.
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In all fairness, after very slow start, Melky wasn't far off his career averages last year.
LaRoche was a dumpster fire.
Melky was pretty decent. I think Eaton will have a bounce back season this year as well. Need more pitching, Sale and Quintana can only get you so far.
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I like the deal as a deal. I hate what Hahn is doing though.
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Color me unimpressed with the Cubs moves.
They threw lots of money at a journeyman and a 6 hitter
It may work out, but history has its own story to tell
Heyward is widely considered one of the best young players in baseball but maybe you only look at HRs when determining a player's value?
Zobrist a journeyman? Nope.
The last two years of Zobrist's deal may not turn out well and deal's as large as Heyward's rarely end well but that is the nature of free agency. The lineup has power - these guys bring OBP and a solid approach.
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Quiet. Baseball is a crapshoot. It's just one giant coincidence that every October teams with the best pitching big boy teams that mash the ball all over the yard in June, July, and August.
KC had nowhere near the best pitching and won. That's not selling short the important of pitching in the post-season. The goal is to get there consistently and see what happens. I think I'll try Theo's judgment on the nature of the playoffs instead of yours.
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Melky was pretty decent. I think Eaton will have a bounce back season this year as well. Need more pitching, Sale and Quintana can only get you so far.
Carlos Rodon was easily the best pitcher on the staff the last two months of the season (5-2, 2.27 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, 7.9 K/9, .209 BA against) and Erik Johnson looked in September like the guy we expected to see at the start of 2014.
Barring a setback from either of those guys, I'm pretty comfortable with the rotation. I'd love them to have the luxury of not rushing Carson Fullmer.
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I like the deal as a deal. I hate what Hahn is doing though.
Are you a Sox fan? If so how can you hate what he is doing? He has reshaped the infield without having to trade guys that were important to the future plan. He is rebuilding the current team without mortgaging the future.
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Melky was pretty decent. I think Eaton will have a bounce back season this year as well. Need more pitching, Sale and Quintana can only get you so far.
Hopefully this is obvious, yet not too obvious
Player A: .293/.359/.439
Player B: .287/.361/.431
Here is a hint. Player A just got 184 million dollars. Player B, in the eyes of his own team's fans, needs a bounce back year.
Oh, and I know player A is a great corner OFer, one of, if not the best. But his new team doesn't have a corner spot available pending other moves. If watching Cespedes in the World Series should have taught us anything, it is that a very good (Gold glove for Cespedes) doesn't necessarily translate to a good, or even average CF.
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By the way, what the heck are the Dodgers doing. It seems like they have a bunch of guys that like to show how smart they are and are trying to outsmart every one by being really stupid.
First the whole Dee Gordon trade. Ok I can understand that. They they spin Heaney for a year of Kendrick, which makes no sense at all. Then they pay for the Pardes to take Kemp. Then they refuse to part ways with prospects to acquire Hamels, which would have given them a better chance at the WS, while insulating themselves against the loss of Greinke. Then they lose Greinke because they won't give him a 6th year, because the Dodgers couldn't possibly have a bad contract on the books that they'd be able to overcome.
Then, the prospects they wouldn't trade for Hamels, they put on the table for 1 year of a closer (which, they already have a good closer, mind you...) but the deal falls apart. As the division is getting better all around them, the Reds will take 3 of their prospects for an All Star slugging 3B. Great move right? Then they trade him for 3 other prospects. Because, you know, the future, not right now.
Did I miss anything?
If I were a Dodger fan I'd be frustrated beyond belief. I guess what you get when you hire a guy great a running a small market team, is a guy that runs the richest franchise around like a small market team.
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Hopefully this is obvious, yet not too obvious
Player A: .293/.359/.439
Player B: .287/.361/.431
Here is a hint. Player A just got 184 million dollars. Player B, in the eyes of his own team's fans, needs a bounce back year.
Oh, and I know player A is a great corner OFer, one of, if not the best. But his new team doesn't have a corner spot available pending other moves. If watching Cespedes in the World Series should have taught us anything, it is that a very good (Gold glove for Cespedes) doesn't necessarily translate to a good, or even average CF.
Player A 2015 WAR: 6.5
Player B 2015 WAR: 1.4
Come on.
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Player A 2015 WAR: 6.5
Player B 2015 WAR: 1.4
Come on.
Yep, comparing Melky and Heyward strictly by their slash lines is silly.
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Are you a Sox fan? If so how can you hate what he is doing? He has reshaped the infield without having to trade guys that were important to the future plan. He is rebuilding the current team without mortgaging the future.
The Sox are clearly better with Frazier and Lawrie but better enough to compete for a wild card spot? Maybe if everything goes really well but I'm skeptical.
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Player A 2015 WAR: 6.5
Player B 2015 WAR: 1.4
Come on.
But much of that WAR was based on his RF defense. Now, they are talking of moving him to CF.
They are giving him $184 Mil for his defense.
Heyward had a 3.8 Offensive WAR; Fowler had a 3.5 Offensive WAR.
Fowler has a better OBP and more SBs. Heyward slightly more power and better defense.
Of course age has something to do with it as Heyward is 3 years younger. A good acquisition - but maybe not at that price.
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Yep, comparing Melky and Heyward strictly by their slash lines is silly.
Well, you guessed wrong. That isn't Melky.
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Well, you guessed wrong. That isn't Melky.
Yea, that's definitely Eaton. Didn't realize he turned it on so much later in the season. I was so disgusted/bored with the season by May that I didn't really pay attention. Still seemed like an off year for him.
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But much of that WAR was based on his RF defense. Now, they are talking of moving him to CF.
They are giving him $184 Mil for his defense.
Heyward had a 3.8 Offensive WAR; Fowler had a 3.5 Offensive WAR.
Fowler has a better OBP and more SBs. Heyward slightly more power and better defense.
Of course age has something to do with it as Heyward is 3 years younger. A good acquisition - but maybe not at that price.
It is yet to be seen if Heyward can play CF at the same level as he played RF, but if he could play CF at the same level, someone would have put him there already.
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Yea, that's definitely Eaton. Didn't realize he turned it on so much later in the season. I was so disgusted/bored with the season by May that I didn't really pay attention. Still seemed like an off year for him.
Well that is certainly understandable.
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Well, you guessed wrong. That isn't Melky.
Sorry; I thought it was The Melk Man, also.
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Are you a Sox fan? If so how can you hate what he is doing? He has reshaped the infield without having to trade guys that were important to the future plan. He is rebuilding the current team without mortgaging the future.
Yes.
How can I hate it? What's there to like? The fact that Hahn is being told to keep asses in the seats?
Great, Frazier. That's awesome.
Lawrie. Top 20 3B, lousy defensive metrics there, getting put at 2B. His WAR number puts him around Odor\Murphy\Espinosa. Not excited, also a noted to shelf penis.
Both guys have two years left. Do you see this team with enough firepower to win in that window?
Hahn should be selling, not buying.
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Yes.
How can I hate it? What's there to like? The fact that Hahn is being told to keep asses in the seats?
Great, Frazier. That's awesome.
Lawrie. Top 20 3B, lousy defensive metrics there, getting put at 2B. His WAR number puts him around Odor\Murphy\Espinosa. Not excited, also a noted to shelf penis.
Both guys have two years left. Do you see this team with enough firepower to win in that window?
Hahn should be selling, not buying.
So fielding a competitive team to keep people interested is a bad thing? Ok. Gotcha.
What is there to like. Well, let me think. He has taken 2 positions where the Sox were last in baseball in OPS and put bats that are above avg (for the position) in both of them.
He has taken a team with a good pitching and a terrible offense and made the offense much better. What an idiot.
Frazier is an above average defender. Lawrie, in a short time has at least shown that he can turn 2 and has a above average range. You want a great defensive 2B? Beckham? I'll let Lawrie have a chance I think.
Oh, and comparing him to Odor like it is a bad thing really makes it seem like you don't know anything about him. I'd bet there are about 25 teams that would take Odor.
What do you want to sell? Sale? Quintana? Abreu? You want the 76ers? The problem with that is prospects don't always pan out. What are you getting for Sale to make it worth it? Yeah, Baseball America and Keith Law would love the prospect return the Sox would get, but I would guess that no player you get for Chris Sale, would be as good as Chris Sale. Same for Q and Abreu. Maybe you do, who knows. But usually when you trade a great, young controllable player in his prime you end up regretting it.
Modification-- Also they have them for 2 years as you point out. So worst case scenario they can still trade both those guys and add more to the farm.
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Also, the Sox have drafted exactly one bat (Rowand, and possibly Beckham) that has really done anything in the majors for any team since Frank Thomas in 1989. So it's fair to say they're truly atrocious at identifying, evaluating and developing young talent.
This is the White Sox way for at least the foreseeable future. Gotta always be buying because they're not smart enough to be able to break it down and start over
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Also, the Sox have drafted exactly one bat (Rowand, and possibly Beckham) that has really done anything in the majors for any team since Frank Thomas in 1989. So it's fair to say they're truly atrocious at identifying, evaluating and developing young talent.
This is the White Sox way for at least the foreseeable future. Gotta always be buying because they're not smart enough to be able to break it down and start over
Well that's not true at all. Granted it isn't a strong suite, but off the top of my head: Ray Durham, Joe Crede, Mike Cameron all had very good careers. They have had some lesser but still productive guys in Chris Singleton, Chris Young, Chris Carter (maybe draft more guys named Chris) Ryan Sweeney and while Jeremy Reed never did anything in the majors, he did get them Freddy Garcia. They also scouted and developed guys like Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Lee. The time between Frank and Rowand was pretty productive actually. It has been the time since where they have been hopeless.
They also didn't buy either of these guys. It was their scouting that netted them both of them. They are acquiring, not buying. Minor difference, but other teams have liked what the Sox have had in the farm. Enough to net them some really good players.
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It is yet to be seen if Heyward can play CF at the same level as he played RF, but if he could play CF at the same level, someone would have put him there already.
Chuckler, that was why I mentioned that his WAR was based on playing RF.
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Chuckler, that was why I mentioned that his WAR was based on playing RF.
Yeah, I was agreeing with you. Sorry I wasn't more clear on that.
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Well, you guessed wrong. That isn't Melky.
Sorry - my mistake but the point still stands. You can't compare contracts because Eaton was under team control and Heyward was a highly sought after free agent at the age of 26. And if Eaton puts up the same numbers again Sox fans should be very happy. He had a good offensive year but was awful at the beginning.
As for a lot of Heyward's value coming from RF defense that is true. He may ultimately end up back in RF as soon as this season. The Cubs are getting his prime years on a contending team where he can be a complimentary offensive player. If he opts out after year 3 or 4 that will be just fine as the money will be reallocated to our younger guys. If he doesn't the team can live with it and he'll still be relatively young.
I think the Sox are using a bandaid approach. That's fine but I don't see it taking the team to consistent playoff contention. The complete tear down is a risk but it can work if done well, as the Cubs and Astros have shown.
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So fielding a competitive team to keep people interested is a bad thing? Ok. Gotcha.
What is there to like. Well, let me think. He has taken 2 positions where the Sox were last in baseball in OPS and put bats that are above avg (for the position) in both of them.
He has taken a team with a good pitching and a terrible offense and made the offense much better. What an idiot.
Frazier is an above average defender. Lawrie, in a short time has at least shown that he can turn 2 and has a above average range. You want a great defensive 2B? Beckham? I'll let Lawrie have a chance I think.
Oh, and comparing him to Odor like it is a bad thing really makes it seem like you don't know anything about him. I'd bet there are about 25 teams that would take Odor.
What do you want to sell? Sale? Quintana? Abreu? You want the 76ers? The problem with that is prospects don't always pan out. What are you getting for Sale to make it worth it? Yeah, Baseball America and Keith Law would love the prospect return the Sox would get, but I would guess that no player you get for Chris Sale, would be as good as Chris Sale. Same for Q and Abreu. Maybe you do, who knows. But usually when you trade a great, young controllable player in his prime you end up regretting it.
Modification-- Also they have them for 2 years as you point out. So worst case scenario they can still trade both those guys and add more to the farm.
Keep on enjoying baseball hell then, because that's where Kenny and Jerry want to keep it. Necessary evil with the Sox, need to keep fans interested or revenues plummet.
As for Odor, I don't pick and choose my comparisons. That's just where Lawrie is. He's a 2-4 WAR guy at third, I'll project him at 1-2 WAR guy at second due to defense.
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Look, I know what the White Sox are trying to do. They are trying to be good enough to keep fans interested, and possibly make a run at a WC spot. In the meantime they are trying to re-stock their system to be a contender. The problem is that I don't think the Williams / Hahn team have ever shown they can do the latter. FanGraphs ranked the White Sox system as 26 out of 30 last year. So they seemed destined for mediocrity, which is a fans worst nightmare.
The Cubs, Royals and Astros decided that they were just going to have to tough it out for a couple years, hired some great analytical folks, and rebuilt. All have systems in the top half. The Brewers, who had a terrible system just a couple years ago, were ranked #11.
The Brewers are going to be terrible this year. Probably next year too. But I feel a lot better about year three and out than I would if I were a White Sox fan.
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Sorry - my mistake but the point still stands. You can't compare contracts because Eaton was under team control and Heyward was a highly sought after free agent at the age of 26. And if Eaton puts up the same numbers again Sox fans should be very happy. He had a good offensive year but was awful at the beginning.
As for a lot of Heyward's value coming from RF defense that is true. He may ultimately end up back in RF as soon as this season. The Cubs are getting his prime years on a contending team where he can be a complimentary offensive player. If he opts out after year 3 or 4 that will be just fine as the money will be reallocated to our younger guys. If he doesn't the team can live with it and he'll still be relatively young.
I think the Sox are using a bandaid approach. That's fine but I don't see it taking the team to consistent playoff contention. The complete tear down is a risk but it can work if done well, as the Cubs and Astros have shown.
I didn't mean to be comparing their contracts. I was comparing their perceived production and value and their actual value. Everyone thinks Heyward is a stud and the Eaton had a bad sophomore slump when their production was pretty in line.
As for Hahn, well the Sox have better depth at low levels of their farm than they've had in a long time. They also have some probable impact players at the top end of their system. They have also, pretty regularly used the farm to trade for good major league talent. This offseason so far is a perfect example.
And anyone that can turn jake peavy into Lawrie and Frazier is a guy that deserves some credit.
I think right now the Sox can contend for a WC spot. A mediocre offense matched with that pitching can go a long way. If the sox get 1 more bat, then they could be really dangerous.
Not that I expect it but if they get Cespedes or Upton or even Gordon and shift Melky to DH and bench LaRoche, that would be a good offensive and defensive club with good pitching.
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I don't think anyone is arguing about the quality of moves. It's the same old cycle the Sox have been stuck in that's frustrating, especially when you could move a young controllable asset like Quintana for the bulk of someone else's farm system.
I don't think the Sox will ever be more than a WC contender without a better farm system being developed while Sale is in his prime. That's a shame.
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I don't think anyone is arguing about the quality of moves. It's the same old cycle the Sox have been stuck in that's frustrating, especially when you could move a young controllable asset like Quintana for the bulk of someone else's farm system.
I don't think the Sox will ever be more than a WC contender without a better farm system being developed while Sale is in his prime. That's a shame.
The problem, as I see it is that trading Q doesn't help the Sox in the the timeframe of Sale's prime. If they traded Q and restocked farm players it would take, what 3 years? That would give them what 1 year with some great young talent in place around Sale, before he is a free agent.
I'd rather keep the pitching in tact. Add to the offense in any way possible and try to take advantage of Sale, Q, Rodon, while you have them young and cheap. Probably sometime in the 2 years with Lawrie and Frazier they get Fulmer into the rotation as well. One more bat.
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I could be wrong but didn't the Sox have a chance for Goldshmidt a few years back? I think I remember them not wanting to give up Konerko or Alexi.
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Don't discount Frazier's marketability as a motive for acquiring him. The Sox need players people want to root for, both historically and now in the shadow of the Cubs fielding a virtual dream team from a likability standpoint. Konerko's retirement was a blow in that regard. I've heard talk of a Buerhle return, too.
This is an organization that hired popular ex player Robin Ventura, with zero coaching experience, to soften the blow of firing the popular Ozzie. This acquisition has Kenny Williams written all over it.
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The problem, as I see it is that trading Q doesn't help the Sox in the the timeframe of Sale's prime. If they traded Q and restocked farm players it would take, what 3 years? That would give them what 1 year with some great young talent in place around Sale, before he is a free agent.
I'd rather keep the pitching in tact. Add to the offense in any way possible and try to take advantage of Sale, Q, Rodon, while you have them young and cheap. Probably sometime in the 2 years with Lawrie and Frazier they get Fulmer into the rotation as well. One more bat.
You're right, it just sucks. Band aid a couple years together, see what happens.
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Looks like Brandon Phillips is going to the nats. If he waives his no trade anyways.
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Looks like Brandon Phillips is going to the nats. If he waives his no trade anyways.
I think we saw this coming after the Reds got Peraza from the Dodgers.
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Cubs get Brendan Ryan. I've worked with his sister Julie for about 10 years. He's a good dude (can't hit a lick, but nice glove).
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You're right, it just sucks. Band aid a couple years together, see what happens.
Completely get what you're saying, but hey ... it worked in 2005.
For better or worse, it's the Sox way. Too reliant on gate to tank (intentionally), too lacking in revenue to go all Yankees/Red Sox/Dodgers.
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The Sox are apparently going pretty hard after Alex Gordon. Sounds like it may be getting close. While I personally would prefer Cespedes, Gordon would certainly still be a good fit, and he would likely be cheaper in terms of AAV as well as term.
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The Sox are apparently going pretty hard after Alex Gordon. Sounds like it may be getting close. While I personally would prefer Cespedes, Gordon would certainly still be a good fit, and he would likely be cheaper in terms of AAV as well as term.
Gordon back to KC on a fairly reasonable deal.
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Gordon back to KC on a fairly reasonable deal.
Very reasonable. I actually like that he stayed. He is like mr. Royal. Woyld have loved the sox to get him but this makes sense. Hopefully this gets that outfield market moving.
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The Kid and Piazza get in the HoF. Three guys didn't vote for Griffey, and should have their voting privileges revoked.
Bagwell, Raines, and Hoffman were close. Schilling a bit further off, followed by Clemens and Bonds.
I would have voted for Raines, Bagwell, Schilling, Mussina, Martinez, Kent and McGriff; in addition to Piazza and Griffey.
Kent and McGriff both surprising low to me.
Kent may be the best slugging 2B ever. .290/.356/.500 377 Hrs, 1518 RBI, 560 2B, 1 MVP (3 other top 10 finishes). Obviously not the defensive player Sandburg was, but offensively (with a difference of about 100 ABs) Kent blows him away. Better across the entire slash line, more HRs, more RBI, more 2B, more H, more R.
McGriff seems to be a victim of steroid numbers. Without the inflated numbers of PED guys his numbers would have gotten him in already. .284/.377/.509 with 493 HR, 1550 RBI, 441 2B. He was never the most dominant guy, but he was high on the list for many years. He had 10 seasons of 30+ homers, 8 years of 100+ RBI, 5 top 10 MVP finishes. His top 5 most similar players according to BBref are, David Ortiz, Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell, Paul Konerko and Jeff Bagwell. Probably 4 HoFers in that group.
Ah well. If I had a vote.
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Brewers have signed Chris Carter. Lots of power, lots of Ks.
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Kent may be the best slugging 2B ever. .290/.356/.500 377 Hrs, 1518 RBI, 560 2B, 1 MVP (3 other top 10 finishes). Obviously not the defensive player Sandburg was, but offensively (with a difference of about 100 ABs) Kent blows him away. Better across the entire slash line, more HRs, more RBI, more 2B, more H, more R.
Ah well. If I had a vote.
I think Kent should've done better, as well, but when comparing to Sandberg, even just offensively, you need to look at more stats, IMO. Sandberg has 344 stolen bases to Kent's 94, and you mentioned doubles but not triples, (Sandberg had 76 triples; Kent had 47 while playing most games at Pac Bell/At&T, where triples are prominent).
And of course there's the defense, where it's not close.
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I think Kent should've done better, as well, but you're somewhat cherry-picking stats. You left out Sandberg has 344 stolen bases to Kent's 94, and mentioned doubles but not triples, (Sandberg had 76 triples; Kent had 47 while playing most games at Pac Bell/At&T, where triples are prominent).
And of course there's the defense, where it's not close.
I believe I mentioned the defense, led with it actually. But I believe you are the one cherry picking stats. Sandburg bests Kent in 1 hitting category. Triples. Which isn't a major part of the game anymore. For reference, Sandburg averaged 6 per 162. Not exactly a huge part of his game. Kent averaged 3, but 9 more doubles (18 total bases, just the dIfference in their triples, how about that??). There is little statistical doubt that Kent was a superior hitter compared to Sandburg. So triples ok, but not really a huge advantage. Sandburg certainly wins steals. But again, their overall offensive profiles certainly favor Kent.
Want to look at even more stats? TB? OPS? OPS+? BB? iBB? They all favor Kent.
And Kent playing at Pac Bell only makes his HR total that much more impressive.
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To me Kent is not a hall of famer. Personally, I would still vote for guys like Bonds and Clemons.
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To me Kent is not a hall of famer. Personally, I would still vote for guys like Bonds and Clemons.
Kind of curious as to why on Kent, care to share? I feel like I made my case for, what is yours against?
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Kind of curious as to why on Kent, care to share? I feel like I made my case for, what is yours against?
I am also not a fan of Kent being in the HOF. Very good player, but....
And I think the fact that teammates and writers were near unanimous in their dislike for him may have affected the vote, as well.
But here's an interesting article on the subject - if you're into thiese kinds of stats.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/an-alternative-hall-of-fame-rating-system/
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I thought Raines is the guy that should have been voted this year. Arguably the 2nd greatest leadoff hitter in history behind Rickey.
As far as Kent, he was a good hitter in a live ball/steroid era. But, he only made the All-star team 5 times in 17 years. And while the all-star voting doesn't always reflect a players full value, it still means he wasn't even considered among the top two 2nd basemen in just one league for the vast majority of his career.
And his best seasons were at the height of the steroid era at the age where, historically, players start their decline.
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I thought Raines is the guy that should have been voted this year. Arguably the 2nd greatest leadoff hitter in history behind Rickey.
As far as Kent, he was a good hitter in a live ball/steroid era. But, he only made the All-star team 5 times in 17 years. And while the all-star voting doesn't always reflect a players full value, it still means he wasn't even considered among the top two 2nd basemen in just one league for the vast majority of his career.
And his best seasons were at the height of the steroid era at the age where, historically, players start their decline.
I'm with you on Raines. I didn't include him because it looks like he will get in next year, as his numbers keep rising and he is pretty close right now. It is a little funny, I am a White Sox fan, and had Raines to watch closely for a while. I never once thought of him as a hall of fame player. I mostly missed his prime in Montreal, he certainly was a premium leadoff hitter, even for the Sox. Pretty definitive for what a team would look for in a great leadoff man.
And I get you on Kent, I guess my only thing is, has there ever been any whispers of him being involved in roids? I mean, more so than anyone else in the era? There is quite a bit of evidence against guys like Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, and many many more. I sure wouldn't be surprised at all if Kent was one of those guys, but right now, I can't remember any evidence, heck even stories that link him. Maybe I'm wrong or mis-remembering. I can't be sure. I am also all for keeping guys with credible doubt of PHDs out of the Hall. But with the only evidence being that he hit homers into his mid-late 30's... I don't know, I guess I'd give the benefit of the doubt, even if it is ignoring a bad smell.
Hmm as I'm writing this I don't know. He was pretty much always productive though. In his first full season he hit 21hr and knocked in 80. That was in 1993. In 94 he slugged higher, and had a better OPS, but didn't have the totals because he was limited to 107 games. He never had a season in which he reached 500 PA where he didn't hit 20 hrs. Actually if you split his career in half, he had just about the exact same production in the first half as the second.
I don't know. I guess he is an interesting case. I guess I hope he gets more time on the ballot, so that stories may come out or he may be cleared more or what.
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I am also not a fan of Kent being in the HOF. Very good player, but....
And I think the fact that teammates and writers were near unanimous in their dislike for him may have affected the vote, as well.
But here's an interesting article on the subject - if you're into thiese kinds of stats.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/an-alternative-hall-of-fame-rating-system/
Pretty interesting. And by this measure, and others, wow did Edmonds get screwed.
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Career WAR
Sandberg: 67.5
Kent: 55.2
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My knock on Kent has nothing to to with PED. As stated before I am all for guys like Bonds being inducted. Just when you say the name Jeff Kent I don't think, Hall of Famer. Very good overall player, yes. But did he really do anything exceptional? I dunno, just my own opinion I guess.
But with that being said, I still feel like my opinion is more valid than the guys who didn't vote for Maddux or Griffey
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I'm with you on Raines. I didn't include him because it looks like he will get in next year, as his numbers keep rising and he is pretty close right now. It is a little funny, I am a White Sox fan, and had Raines to watch closely for a while. I never once thought of him as a hall of fame player. I mostly missed his prime in Montreal, he certainly was a premium leadoff hitter, even for the Sox. Pretty definitive for what a team would look for in a great leadoff man.
And I get you on Kent, I guess my only thing is, has there ever been any whispers of him being involved in roids? I mean, more so than anyone else in the era? There is quite a bit of evidence against guys like Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa, and many many more. I sure wouldn't be surprised at all if Kent was one of those guys, but right now, I can't remember any evidence, heck even stories that link him. Maybe I'm wrong or mis-remembering. I can't be sure. I am also all for keeping guys with credible doubt of PHDs out of the Hall. But with the only evidence being that he hit homers into his mid-late 30's... I don't know, I guess I'd give the benefit of the doubt, even if it is ignoring a bad smell.
Hmm as I'm writing this I don't know. He was pretty much always productive though. In his first full season he hit 21hr and knocked in 80. That was in 1993. In 94 he slugged higher, and had a better OPS, but didn't have the totals because he was limited to 107 games. He never had a season in which he reached 500 PA where he didn't hit 20 hrs. Actually if you split his career in half, he had just about the exact same production in the first half as the second.
I don't know. I guess he is an interesting case. I guess I hope he gets more time on the ballot, so that stories may come out or he may be cleared more or what.
I understand the sentiment for Kent. He was a very good player for a long time. I also think he was the victim of a year when there were more than a dozen good candidates.
Jim Edmonds didn't even get enough votes to merit getting back on the ballot next year. And, if you look at advanced stats, he was a better player in his prime years than Kent. Kent was better offensively, but brutal on defense. Edmonds was very good offensively, and outstanding on defense in a prime up-the middle spot.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/appreciating-jim-edmonds/
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Edmonds can suck it.
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McGuire was a consistent all-star before roids made him god-like. He should get in. Same with Bonds. Sosa just sucked before roids, him, Pudge, and Juan Gonzalez should be out.
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Career WAR
Sandberg: 67.5
Kent: 55.2
Ugh. I did't say Kent was a better player. I said Kent was a better hitter. Obviously, as I have mentioned, Sandberg was a much better defender. But just the fact that Kent compares on any level to a guy most would consider the best hitter of the Hall's 2B, should say that he deserves some pretty serious consideration.
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But with that being said, I still feel like my opinion is more valid than the guys who didn't vote for Maddux or Griffey
Definitely true.
Again, for Kent, I think the offense he provided at the position he played needs to be considered. If he was a 1B, I would say he doesn't deserve enshrinement. But he wasn't. For a 9 season stretch he averaged .296/.365/.529 with 28 Hrs and 110 RBI. If you take any cloud of suspicion out or don't care about it, those are numbers that really stand with the best among other second basemen.
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I understand the sentiment for Kent. He was a very good player for a long time. I also think he was the victim of a year when there were more than a dozen good candidates.
Jim Edmonds didn't even get enough votes to merit getting back on the ballot next year. And, if you look at advanced stats, he was a better player in his prime years than Kent. Kent was better offensively, but brutal on defense. Edmonds was very good offensively, and outstanding on defense in a prime up-the middle spot.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/appreciating-jim-edmonds/
I certainly liked to watch Edmonds more than Kent. I loved the flash with which he played. Great two way player. I think its a shame he dropped off in one ballot.
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McGuire was a consistent all-star before roids made him god-like. He should get in. Same with Bonds. Sosa just sucked before roids, him, Pudge, and Juan Gonzalez should be out.
McGwire was an all star twice 'before' using steroids.
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McGwire was an all star twice 'before' using steroids.
He hit 49 HR his 2nd year in the league and averaged almost 100 walks a season (including the 4 years he was injured for the majority of the season). with almost a .400 OBP
We also need to keep in mind that he was often facing pitchers who were using steroids.
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We also need to keep in mind that he was often facing pitchers who were using steroids.
This is the fact I always refer too. It wasn't just big name pitchers who were roided up. It was mediocre pitchers who were trying to keep themselves in the league and on the mound for more games. I think there was a much higher percentage of pitchers on roids than position players. Someone can fact check me on that. Too lazy to look it up right now.
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He hit 49 HR his 2nd year in the league and averaged almost 100 walks a season (including the 4 years he was injured for the majority of the season). with almost a .400 OBP
We also need to keep in mind that he was often facing pitchers who were using steroids.
Mark McGwire's age 27-30 seasons
154G .201 22 75
139G .268 42 104
27G .333 9 24
47G .252 9 25
His career through age 30 (ages 22-30, 9 seasons - into decline phase for players historically, and probably on the juice already for quite some time)
.250 238 657 (Good but not HOF-worthy if he continued on a normal trajectory.)
His numbers ages 31-37
.278 345 757
I don't think he would have put of HOF numbers without the help. I think you can make a strong case that Clemens and especially Bonds were HOFers anyway, but anyone else is a tough sell for me.
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This is the fact I always refer too. It wasn't just big name pitchers who were roided up. It was mediocre pitchers who were trying to keep themselves in the league and on the mound for more games. I think there was a much higher percentage of pitchers on roids than position players. Someone can fact check me on that. Too lazy to look it up right now.
I think you make an important point.
It wasn't just the stars whop were using.
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Upton to the Tigers. Ilitch wants to win NOW and doesn't care about salary caps or long term ramifications.
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Upton to the Tigers. Ilitch wants to win NOW and doesn't care about salary caps or long term ramifications.
Gotta love an owner that just goes for it. I heard the Tigers just became just the second team in history to hand out 2 100+ million contracts in the same offseason (the other is of course the Yanks). The crazy thing for the Tigers, is they basically just replaced Price and Cespedes with Zimmerman and Upton.
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More importantly, they addressed their bullpen. There is a chance that there will be a 100% turnover in their pen between opening day 2015 and opening day 2016. Rondon may show enough to make the team. They got Zimmerman for a lot less than they would have had to pay Price, and Upton for a lot less than Cespedes wants.
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More importantly, they addressed their bullpen. There is a chance that there will be a 100% turnover in their pen between opening day 2015 and opening day 2016. Rondon may show enough to make the team. They got Zimmerman for a lot less than they would have had to pay Price, and Upton for a lot less than Cespedes wants.
Wasn't it reported that Cespedes wants 6yr/$132m?
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Wasn't it reported that Cespedes wants 6yr/$132m?
I thought I read 7yr/$200m, but I can't find it.
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I thought I read 7yr/$200m, but I can't find it.
(http://i.qkme.me/3telm5.jpg)
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(http://i.qkme.me/3telm5.jpg)
Completely agree. Guess I will have to eat more Little Caesar's Pizzas
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I thought I read 7yr/$200m, but I can't find it.
7 years 200 million may be what he wants but I think he'll be lucky to get Upton money/duration. He's 30, and lots of teams have traded him or let him walk.
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7 years 200 million may be what he wants but I think he'll be lucky to get Upton money/duration. He's 30, and lots of teams have traded him or let him walk.
Never, ever underestimate the greed and stupidity of the owners.
Just look at the contract that Chris Davis got. The team that the Orioles outbid for his services - the Orioles.
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Never, ever underestimate the greed and stupidity of the owners.
Just look at the contract that Chris Davis got. The team that the Orioles outbid for his services - the Orioles.
I live in Chicago and while I don't feel qualified to comment on Jerry Reinsdorf's or Tom Rickett's "greed" quotient these guy are anything but stupid. Maybe they're exceptions.
Regarding Davis, the Orioles let Scott Boras save face on that one. 161m for 7 years instead of the 150m originally offered is the headline, but so much of the contract is deferred at 0% interest that it's likely worth less than the original offer.
I do think the 162.75m/6 year deal the really old dude from Detroit gave Upton was stupid - but he's almost 90 and wants to win a World Series no matter the cost. My guess is he ends up disappointed. Again.
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I live in Chicago and while I don't feel qualified to comment on Jerry Reinsdorf's or Tom Rickett's "greed" quotient these guy are anything but stupid. Maybe they're exceptions.
Regarding Davis, the Orioles let Scott Boras save face on that one. 161m for 7 years instead of the 150m originally offered is the headline, but so much of the contract is deferred at 0% interest that it's likely worth less than the original offer.
I do think the 162.75m/6 year deal the really old dude from Detroit gave Upton was stupid - but he's almost 90 and wants to win a World Series no matter the cost. My guess is he ends up disappointed. Again.
Upton got $132 million, unless new numbers have come out that I am not aware of.
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More importantly, they addressed their bullpen. There is a chance that there will be a 100% turnover in their pen between opening day 2015 and opening day 2016. Rondon may show enough to make the team. They got Zimmerman for a lot less than they would have had to pay Price, and Upton for a lot less than Cespedes wants.
Completely agree. Pundits are gushing over the big signings for the Tigers, but the pen is what will really make a difference.
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May have been mentioned already but what do you guys think of the cubs trying to move Soler and resigning Dex? Hayward would be able to move back to right field if that were to happen. I like Soler and Fowler a lot so I wouldn't be upset one way or another but a co worker brought up the scenario today.
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May have been mentioned already but what do you guys think of the cubs trying to move Soler and resigning Dex? Hayward would be able to move back to right field if that were to happen. I like Soler and Fowler a lot so I wouldn't be upset one way or another but a co worker brought up the scenario today.
It's possible. Fowler hasn't seen the money he thought. His glove still isn't great, marginally better than Heyward.
It'll still take a lot for the Jed to move Soler before the season starts.
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It's possible. Fowler hasn't seen the money he thought. His glove still isn't great, marginally better than Heyward.
It'll still take a lot for the Jed to move Soler before the season starts.
Since Heyward is a great defensive player, wouldn't Fowler be great if he is better than Heyward?
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Since Heyward is a great defensive player, wouldn't Fowler be great if he is better than Heyward?
We're talking Heyward at CF though.
So defensively Fowler/Soler < Heyward/Soler < Fowler/Heyward.
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May have been mentioned already but what do you guys think of the cubs trying to move Soler and resigning Dex? Hayward would be able to move back to right field if that were to happen. I like Soler and Fowler a lot so I wouldn't be upset one way or another but a co worker brought up the scenario today.
At this point, I'd prefer to keep Soler and see how Heyward does in CF. It would partially depend on what you get for Soler but I think you'd be selling low right now.
It's possible. Fowler hasn't seen the money he thought. His glove still isn't great, marginally better than Heyward.
It'll still take a lot for the Jed to move Soler before the season starts.
I'm not so sure Heyward won't be as good as Fowler defensively in CF. Fowler was solid but nothing special. I do agree that a Fowler/Heyward combo in CF/RF which greatly improve the defense.
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I do agree that a Fowler/Heyward combo in CF/RF which greatly improve the defense.
Any time you don't mention Soler and defense...you are making an upgrade!
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Any time you don't mention Soler and defense...you are making an upgrade!
I'm just hoping he can improve to be passable as he was brutal last year. But I think that bat is going to be huge.
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I do find it a little odd that the Cubs would commit so much money to Heyward, with a quite a bit of that presumably because of his defense, then put him into a position that may minimize his defensive skill set. I find this especially risky considering the Cubs seem to be ready to trot out a guy that can mash, but may end up being one of the worst defensive LFs in baseball. Putting even more pressure on a guy who will be playing CF regularly for the first time.
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Upton got $132 million, unless new numbers have come out that I am not aware of.
Sorry - meant to type $132.75m - thanks for the correction
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I do find it a little odd that the Cubs would commit so much money to Heyward, with a quite a bit of that presumably because of his defense, then put him into a position that may minimize his defensive skill set. I find this especially risky considering the Cubs seem to be ready to trot out a guy that can mash, but may end up being one of the worst defensive LFs in baseball. Putting even more pressure on a guy who will be playing CF regularly for the first time.
For Schwarber, he just has to hold strong till 2017, when he becomes the Cubs DH.
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I do find it a little odd that the Cubs would commit so much money to Heyward, with a quite a bit of that presumably because of his defense, then put him into a position that may minimize his defensive skill set. I find this especially risky considering the Cubs seem to be ready to trot out a guy that can mash, but may end up being one of the worst defensive LFs in baseball. Putting even more pressure on a guy who will be playing CF regularly for the first time.
Schwarber has work to do defensively but too many people are assuming his awful last couple of games in the NLCS was the norm for him in LF, and it wasn't. He's got a great work ethic, is more athletic than people realize, and hadn't played much outfield. If he can be average to slightly below average, and I think he can, that bat makes him a huge asset. He still may catch one a week or so as well.
As for Heyward, there is plenty of time to figure things out. Playing CF may be a short-term situation, depending on a number of factors. There's also a chance Heyward opts out after the 3rd or 4th season, in which case the Cubs will have gotten 3 or 4 of his prime years and would likely let him walk at that point. Any huge contract is a risk but I'm not overly concerned at this point.
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For a guy that didn't play LF really at all, his first few goes at it were actually not a good thing. Most the balls out to him were routine fly balls.
In the playoffs, they were anything but...and inexperience showed. As stated, I think with an offseason of work, and more time out in LF, he will get better.
Remember, Adam Dunn was in the OF once. Ryan Braun is in the OF now...when he first started, what a joke!
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I find it completely crazy and nonsensical that Ian Kennedy has just officially signed for 5 years and 70 million dollars and Ian Desmond can't get anyone to sign him. Certainly not a scenario on which I would have bet.
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Remember, Adam Dunn was in the OF once. Ryan Braun is in the OF now...when he first started, what a joke!
Not sure what you're saying here. Dunn was an horrendous outfielder, while Braun became pretty good.
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Is Carlos Lee a good comp for Schwarber? Is he the kind of player you are hoping for? He is a guy that played mostly infield in the minors, very big, more athletic than he looked. Always a bat first guy, but a guy that hit so well he always supported his lackluster defense. And while he was never a great defender, heck, never a good one, he played a quality of defense that was good enough for how he hit. What do you think Cub fans? Reasonable comp? Reasonable hope?
MOD--- Wow. Just looked at their numbers, I almost can't believe it but Carlos Lee never struck out 100 times in a season. In fact Schwarber K'd more last year than Lee's 162 average. So, unless he gets that under more control, it seems unlikely that he would hit for the avg Lee did, but I think it still may be reasonable.
By the way, Lee was a really good hitter.
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Is Carlos Lee a good comp for Schwarber? Is he the kind of player you are hoping for? He is a guy that played mostly infield in the minors, very big, more athletic than he looked. Always a bat first guy, but a guy that hit so well he always supported his lackluster defense. And while he was never a great defender, heck, never a good one, he played a quality of defense that was good enough for how he hit. What do you think Cub fans? Reasonable comp? Reasonable hope?
MOD--- Wow. Just looked at their numbers, I almost can't believe it but Carlos Lee never struck out 100 times in a season. In fact Schwarber K'd more last year than Lee's 162 average. So, unless he gets that under more control, it seems unlikely that he would hit for the avg Lee did, but I think it still may be reasonable.
By the way, Lee was a really good hitter.
Another comp that sounds closer - at least for now - would be Greg Vaughn of the Brewers. Great power. K's in the 120 - 130 range when he played a full season. A guy with over 350 HR despite playing over 125 games just 7 times in his career. And took alot of walks for a good OBP.
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Not sure what you're saying here. Dunn was an horrendous outfielder, while Braun became pretty good.
I guess i was saying he could go both ways (or that is what I am claiming now...). He either learns to play and becomes above average, or he sucks at it and becomes a better Catcher or DH.
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I guess i was saying he could go both ways (or that is what I am claiming now...). He either learns to play and becomes above average, or he sucks at it and becomes a better Catcher or DH.
All the scouting reports I've heard on him say he has a better chance at the OF than at C.
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All the scouting reports I've heard on him say he has a better chance at the OF than at C.
The ideal state after this year, at least from my perspective, is him being able to play OF 4-5 times per week and catch 2-3 times a week, with Contreras taking over the full-time catching duties. Obviously a lot of moving pieces there but definitely possible, if not likely. If it doesn't work out it won't be due to his work ethic or makeup. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't make himself into an average LF, at least in Wrigley.
Btw, Fowler seems like a perfect fit for the Sox. What's the problem?
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The ideal state after this year, at least from my perspective, is him being able to play OF 4-5 times per week and catch 2-3 times a week, with Contreras taking over the full-time catching duties. Obviously a lot of moving pieces there but definitely possible, if not likely. If it doesn't work out it won't be due to his work ethic or makeup. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't make himself into an average LF, at least in Wrigley.
Btw, Fowler seems like a perfect fit for the Sox. What's the problem?
I think the only problem is that Fowler is that he is a pretty average player to lose the number 28 pick. He does seem like a pretty good fit though, as does Desmond (but with the same downside). It is interesting how the pick has killed the market for some players but not at all for others. At this point I bet Kendrick wishes he had taken it.
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Brewers trade Segura to the Dbacks. Chase Anderson and a A ball pitcher coming back (seems like a legit prospect) along with Aaron Hill, for whom the Dbacks are paying. Can Lucroy be far behind?
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Brewers trade Segura to the Dbacks. Chase Anderson and a A ball pitcher coming back (seems like a legit prospect) along with Aaron Hill, for whom the Dbacks are paying. Can Lucroy be far behind?
On the Brewers end of the haul, Anderson is the jewel of the trade. The 28-year-old is a reliable changeup specialist. In 267 career innings, he has a 4.18 ERA (4.17 FIP) with 7.28 K/9 and 2.70 BB/9. His stuff performed slightly better in 2014 than 2015 as evidenced by superior strikeout and swinging strike rates. As a slightly homer prone fly ball pitcher, he’s not a great fit for power happy Miller Park (the same was true at Chase Field). Anderson comes with five seasons of club control and will be a member of the rotation.
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Brewers trade Segura to the Dbacks. Chase Anderson and a A ball pitcher coming back (seems like a legit prospect) along with Aaron Hill, for whom the Dbacks are paying. Can Lucroy be far behind?
Lucroy won't be moved until the deadline this year, and given his extremely cheap control through next season, they will get a very, very good return.
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Lucroy won't be moved until the deadline this year, and given his extremely cheap control through next season, they will get a very, very good return.
I didn't realize that he was going to be turning 30 this June. As good of a guy as he has been here, it is probably time to wish him well.
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Lucroy won't be moved until the deadline this year, and given his extremely cheap control through next season, they will get a very, very good return.
2015 Lucroy or 2014 Lucroy? The haul will be dependent on his performance, and given his recent remarks he seems prepped to leave Milwaukee.
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On the Brewers end of the haul, Anderson is the jewel of the trade. The 28-year-old is a reliable changeup specialist. In 267 career innings, he has a 4.18 ERA (4.17 FIP) with 7.28 K/9 and 2.70 BB/9. His stuff performed slightly better in 2014 than 2015 as evidenced by superior strikeout and swinging strike rates. As a slightly homer prone fly ball pitcher, he’s not a great fit for power happy Miller Park (the same was true at Chase Field). Anderson comes with five seasons of club control and will be a member of the rotation.
I remember in my western civ class there were supposed to be huge problems with plagiarism. Though I think it was mostly due to not giving sources credit.
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2015 Lucroy or 2014 Lucroy? The haul will be dependent on his performance, and given his recent remarks he seems prepped to leave Milwaukee.
2012, 2013, 2014, and second half of 2015 Lucroy. There is every reason to believe he will return to form this season. If you look at his numbers from last year, he had a dreadful start to the season, then immediate got hurt and missed a bunch of time, but his post all-star numbers were actually more in line with the prior couple years/his career.
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2012, 2013, 2014, and second half of 2015 Lucroy. There is every reason to believe he will return to form this season. If you look at his numbers from last year, he had a dreadful start to the season, then immediate got hurt and missed a bunch of time, but his post all-star numbers were actually more in line with the prior couple years/his career.
We know the Brewers are shopping him, but the price seems high since there's not even smoke yet.
Hell of a catcher though and seems very personable. I wonder if the Brewers feel the need to hold on to him to keep butts in the seats.
Has there been many catcher trades at the deadline? Seems tough to trade and learn how to handle a pitching staff mid-season.
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Brewers trade Segura to the Dbacks. Chase Anderson and a A ball pitcher coming back (seems like a legit prospect) along with Aaron Hill, for whom the Dbacks are paying. Can Lucroy be far behind?
They got a 19 year old SS - not an A ball pitcher. I think he is the cornerstone of the deal.
Anderson is just a middle of the rotation guy. Hill is a probably just a 4-month guy - if he has any success at all this year, he will go at the trade deadline.
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We know the Brewers are shopping him, but the price seems high since there's not even smoke yet.
Hell of a catcher though and seems very personable. I wonder if the Brewers feel the need to hold on to him to keep butts in the seats.
Has there been many catcher trades at the deadline? Seems tough to trade and learn how to handle a pitching staff mid-season.
Good question. Plays at 1B quite a bit as well. Not as valuable there, but probably increases his market overall.
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Good question. Plays at 1B quite a bit as well. Not as valuable there, but probably increases his market overall.
I don't see how it would increase his value. He is basically the same hitter as James Loney (and worse defensively) - maybe the worst starting 1B in baseball. His value is strictly as a catcher.
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Didn't say it increased his value. Said it increased his market - as in number of teams that may have interest (I suppose that consequently increases his value, but that wasn't my point). Of course his value is as a catcher, but the ability to play both spots could make him attractive to a number of teams.
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There is a great chart on MLBtraderumors.com that highlights offseason free agent spending. It is a little crazy that the Yankees are last, and have spent exactly 0.00 dollars. Wow. George wouldn't be happy.
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There is a great chart on MLBtraderumors.com that highlights offseason free agent spending. It is a little crazy that the Yankees are last, and have spent exactly 0.00 dollars. Wow. George wouldn't be happy.
It won't last for long as some of their onerous contracts come off the books over the next couple of years. They'll give Harper over $400 million if he makes it to free agency, assuming good health.
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It won't last for long as some of their onerous contracts come off the books over the next couple of years. They'll give Harper over $400 million if he makes it to free agency, assuming good health.
His deal will be astronomical.
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His deal will be astronomical.
Early prediction: 12yr/$486m
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Early prediction: 12yr/$486m
And then, at the next collective bargaining session, owners will cry poverty again.
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::)
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We know the Brewers are shopping him, but the price seems high since there's not even smoke yet.
Hell of a catcher though and seems very personable. I wonder if the Brewers feel the need to hold on to him to keep butts in the seats.
Has there been many catcher trades at the deadline? Seems tough to trade and learn how to handle a pitching staff mid-season.
My guess is they are trying to avoid the perception of a fire sale. Lucroy didn't help out by opening his mouth. Should have voiced his opinion to management and not the press.
On the other hand, I think the Brewers SP is under rated. With a vet like Lucroy to handle them, the Brewers could be not dismal. (I am not predicting them as a playoff team by any stretch. Just MAYBE not 52-110.
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My guess is they are trying to avoid the perception of a fire sale. Lucroy didn't help out by opening his mouth. Should have voiced his opinion to management and not the press.
On the other hand, I think the Brewers SP is under rated. With a vet like Lucroy to handle them, the Brewers could be not dismal. (I am not predicting them as a playoff team by any stretch. Just MAYBE not 52-110.
On the one hand, I agree. They could win 70 games with Atlanta, Philly, Cincinnati, SD, and Colorado all tanking or just being awful, but they are about the future.
Right now they have 5 prospects among the Top 100 - which hasn't happened as long as I can remember. If they can get a couple top prospects, I'd trade Lucroy in a second.
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I think the only problem is that Fowler is that he is a pretty average player to lose the number 28 pick. He does seem like a pretty good fit though, as does Desmond (but with the same downside). It is interesting how the pick has killed the market for some players but not at all for others. At this point I bet Kendrick wishes he had taken it.
If I were the White Sox, losing the 28th pick would not be much of a concern considering their #10 pick is protected. Fowler's no superstar but he should be worth 2-3 WAR for the next couple of years and those incremental wins should be of huge value to the White Sox right now if they think they have a legit shot at a wild card or the division.
I assume they'll add one more bat because it really would make very little sense if that didn't after acquiring Frazier and Lawrie.
Go Cubs.
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It's funny because the white sox try to get these massive hitters every year but if you look at the team who won the world series the middle of their lineup consisted of Jermaine Dye, Konerko and Carl Everett, who mind you aren't bad hitters but those guys could hit for contact too.
It may also help that their entire team that year had career years from their position players to their pitching staff. John Garland anyone?
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If I were the White Sox, losing the 28th pick would not be much of a concern considering their #10 pick is protected. Fowler's no superstar but he should be worth 2-3 WAR for the next couple of years and those incremental wins should be of huge value to the White Sox right now if they think they have a legit shot at a wild card or the division.
I disagree with the bolded part. Draft picks are getting to be much more valuable than they used to be, Especially with the earlier decline of players in their 30's as compared to the steroid era. Most teams are now valuing younger talent rather than older players.
Here is an excellent article about draft-pick compensation and the earlier decline of older players. The league-wide WAR for players 30+ is now just a little over half of what it was in 1998.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-other-big-change-in-mlbs-post-ped-era/
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I disagree with the bolded part. Draft picks are getting to be much more valuable than they used to be, Especially with the earlier decline of players in their 30's as compared to the steroid era. Most teams are now valuing younger talent rather than older players.
Here is an excellent article about draft-pick compensation and the earlier decline of older players. The league-wide WAR for players 30+ is now just a little over half of what it was in 1998.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-other-big-change-in-mlbs-post-ped-era/
I agree with you completely on principle but the chances of the 28th pick becoming a productive major leaguer are slim. If it's between that and adding a player who is worth 2-3 wins to a team that wants to contend for a playoff spot it's a no-brainer, IMO. If we were talking about the 10th pick it would be a different story. And I'm no Sox fan.
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I agree with you completely on principle but the chances of the 28th pick becoming a productive major leaguer are slim. If it's between that and adding a player who is worth 2-3 wins to a team that wants to contend for a playoff spot it's a no-brainer, IMO. If we were talking about the 10th pick it would be a different story. And I'm no Sox fan.
I agree with this. It is all about what player they would get back. My original comment was more general rather than specific to this case.
Not sure that Fowler would be enough to make a move.
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I agree with this. It is all about what player they would get back. My original comment was more general rather than specific to this case.
Not sure that Fowler would be enough to make a move.
We're on the same page from a general perspective. And I get not loving Fowler as well. As a Cubs fan, I am a bit biased as he was a huge catalyst during the 2nd half of last season.
I found this article about the WAR of #28 picks over the years. Clearly there are exceptions but if a team can sign a solid player that could push them into the playoffs I don't see how you don't give up that pick. If Fowler or an Ian Desmond is signed for a three-year deal and puts up 6-7 WAR (hypothetically over a 3-year deal) it's an easy call when you look at the history of that pick over entire careers.
Not sure if you are a Sox fan but they need another bat and the ones that are out there are going to cost the 28th pick. If the White Sox aren't going to rebuild, they need to sign one of those guys and give up that pick.
http://dodgersway.com/2014/10/23/history-28th-overall-pick/
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Personally, I think the Cubs should be re-signing Fowler. The way they are constructed defensively right now, I do not believe they will win the WS. Soler is expendable. Now, obviously still time,trade deadline, etc to address, and I suspect that their plan is likley to shore up as needed at the deadline, as they can win in the regular season, but in three post-season series, the ball is going to find guys like Schwarber, Soler, Bryant, and maybe even Heyward if he's in CF. the simple move of putting a Fowler/Gomez type in CF and sliding Heyward over to RF, coupled with the ability to move Zobrist all over, would dramatically shore up the primary weakness that remains with that roster.
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I agree with you completely on principle but the chances of the 28th pick becoming a productive major leaguer are slim. If it's between that and adding a player who is worth 2-3 wins to a team that wants to contend for a playoff spot it's a no-brainer, IMO. If we were talking about the 10th pick it would be a different story. And I'm no Sox fan.
The odds for any pick are slim. Heck, Jr. is the first ever first pick to go into the HOF. But that 28th pick is a pretty high pick. That is usually a first round pick. Heck, Mike Trout was picked 25th. Mark Buehrle was taken in the 38th round. The baseball draft is a crap shoot. Which makes that pick even more important, not only because of the pick, but the pool money. Having a pick that high gives them more room to work with to get better guys earlier and later in the draft.
The problem with Fowler is that he is a good player, but obviously is not viewed as an impact player. He hit a career high in HR last year, but had a career low OBP, so that may lead to questions about into what type of player he is evolving? Is he going to give you that .360 OBP? I'd would think banking on his power to be a risky proposition.
Then there is the question of Austin Jackson, he isn't tied to a pick and is a similar type player. Not as good certainly, but useful.
Right now the Sox offense is hinging on LaRoche bouncing back (yikes) or Avi breaking out (also yikes, but probably slightly more likely). Adding another bat makes either of these situations frosting on top. Not a necessity. Putting Desmond in the 5/6 spot or Fowler in the 2 spot would make for a pretty deep lineup.
But basically I agree. Fowler would make this team feel alot more dangerous. Same thing with Desmond. Certainly with both.
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It's funny because the white sox try to get these massive hitters every year but if you look at the team who won the world series the middle of their lineup consisted of Jermaine Dye, Konerko and Carl Everett, who mind you aren't bad hitters but those guys could hit for contact too.
It may also help that their entire team that year had career years from their position players to their pitching staff. John Garland anyone?
8 out of 9 players in that lineup hit at least 15 homers (and Frank hit 12 in like 100 abs). The other was Podsednik who stole 60 bases. There was a lot of power on that team. Also no one hit over .290
And not everyone had career years. And no one had a crazy year either I wouldn't say. Maybe Garland. (Jon by the way)
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Not sure if you are a Sox fan but they need another bat and the ones that are out there are going to cost the 28th pick. If the White Sox aren't going to rebuild, they need to sign one of those guys and give up that pick.
http://dodgersway.com/2014/10/23/history-28th-overall-pick/
This is the weird part. They are stuck in between. They gave up some prospects this offseason, so I understand wanting to take the picks to rebuild (especially because it essentially cost you 3 players to get that pick). They also gave up 2 picks last year (Cabrera and Robertson) so I can see not wanting to do that again. But again, I am with you. Either go for it or don't. Enough half measures. I'd love another move. The fact that they were just trying to trade for Puig is hopeful and makes me think the team realizes exactly where they are and are trying to find a more impactful player before going on to Fowler.
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8 out of 9 players in that lineup hit at least 15 homers (and Frank hit 12 in like 100 abs). The other was Podsednik who stole 60 bases. There was a lot of power on that team. Also no one hit over .290
And not everyone had career years. And no one had a crazy year either I wouldn't say. Maybe Garland. (Jon by the way)
See I remember that team a lot differently. Even Uribe hit over 15 homers? Funny what 11 years will do to your memory. Forget Uribe, I'm surprised Iguchi and Rowand hit at least 15 as well.
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8 out of 9 players in that lineup hit at least 15 homers (and Frank hit 12 in like 100 abs). The other was Podsednik who stole 60 bases. There was a lot of power on that team. Also no one hit over .290
And not everyone had career years. And no one had a crazy year either I wouldn't say. Maybe Garland. (Jon by the way)
Ozzie Guillen had a career year.
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See I remember that team a lot differently. Even Uribe hit over 15 homers? Funny what 11 years will do to your memory. Forget Uribe, I'm surprised Iguchi and Rowand hit at least 15 as well.
Iguchi had 15 and Uribe had 16, I was incorrect though, Rowand had 13. They did hit 200 even as a team.
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Matt Murton back to Chicago on a minor league deal. NL Central beware.
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This is the weird part. They are stuck in between. They gave up some prospects this offseason, so I understand wanting to take the picks to rebuild (especially because it essentially cost you 3 players to get that pick). They also gave up 2 picks last year (Cabrera and Robertson) so I can see not wanting to do that again. But again, I am with you. Either go for it or don't. Enough half measures. I'd love another move. The fact that they were just trying to trade for Puig is hopeful and makes me think the team realizes exactly where they are and are trying to find a more impactful player before going on to Fowler.
IMO the Sox need a SP, SS and an outfielder. The way the market is dropping they might get Gallardo (7m one year)+ a couple mil in incentives, Desmond (2 yr, 20m with an opt out) and Fowler (maybe slightly more than Desmond) for roughly what Cespedes would have cost them. Pipe dream for sure but the White Sox would be formidable.
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Well, the Sox made a move. Mat Latos. 1 year 3 mil. Pretty low risk for some decent potential. Possible rotational depth/ bullpen depth if nothing else. He is only 1 year removed from being a pretty good pitcher as well.
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Mat Latos has a cat. The cat's name is "Cat Latos." So, the Sox have that going for them.
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Well, the Sox made a move. Mat Latos. 1 year 3 mil. Pretty low risk for some decent potential. Possible rotational depth/ bullpen depth if nothing else. He is only 1 year removed from being a pretty good pitcher as well.
No brainer at that number.
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Between Latos, Lawrie and Eaton that's a tough team to like.
Frazier is a good dude though.
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Between Latos, Lawrie and Eaton that's a tough team to like.
Frazier is a good dude though.
I don't know. What's the problem with Eaton and Lawrie? I've heard stories that teammates weren't too fond of Latos, but haven't heard much by the way of Lawrie and Eaton hasn't been a problem in his 2 years with the Sox.
But then again, all anyone could say about AJ is that he was some sort of boogeyman, and I think wouldn't say Sox fans would classify him as unlikable.
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Eaton hasn't been a problem in his 2 years with the Sox.
Eaton hasn't been anything in his last two years with the Sox.
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I don't know. What's the problem with Eaton and Lawrie? I've heard stories that teammates weren't too fond of Latos, but haven't heard much by the way of Lawrie and Eaton hasn't been a problem in his 2 years with the Sox.
But then again, all anyone could say about AJ is that he was some sort of boogeyman, and I think wouldn't say Sox fans would classify him as unlikable.
Eaton's mouth has always been larger then his performance. Lawrie is Swisher Jr. when it comes to being a bro. Latos is a world class douche, otherwise he would have gotten a better contract.
Your best player can't refuses to grasp English coupled with a quiet manager, esh. This is Frazier's clubhouse, and I think he's got the personality to possibly pull it together. Hahn hasn't done him any favors though.
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Brewers get good catching prospect for Khris Davis.
Santana could put up similar numbers as Davis, so he was expendable.
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Adios Lucroy, hey?
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Eaton's mouth has always been larger then his performance. Lawrie is Swisher Jr. when it comes to being a bro. Latos is a world class douche, otherwise he would have gotten a better contract.
Your best player can't refuses to grasp English coupled with a quiet manager, esh. This is Frazier's clubhouse, and I think he's got the personality to possibly pull it together. Hahn hasn't done him any favors though.
This seems pretty thin.
And what does speaking English have to do with anything? You know half that team is Latin right? And there are ways to lead with out being a cheerleader as well.
And not sure what your expectations for Eaton are. He has been the Sox 2nd best hitter since he arrived. And while that doesn't say much on its own, that isn't because Eaton's production has been lacking.
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Brewers get good catching prospect for Khris Davis.
Santana could put up similar numbers as Davis, so he was expendable.
I can never quite figure out what Oakland is thinking.
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Personally, I think the Cubs should be re-signing Fowler. The way they are constructed defensively right now, I do not believe they will win the WS. Soler is expendable. Now, obviously still time,trade deadline, etc to address, and I suspect that their plan is likley to shore up as needed at the deadline, as they can win in the regular season, but in three post-season series, the ball is going to find guys like Schwarber, Soler, Bryant, and maybe even Heyward if he's in CF. the simple move of putting a Fowler/Gomez type in CF and sliding Heyward over to RF, coupled with the ability to move Zobrist all over, would dramatically shore up the primary weakness that remains with that roster.
Fowler's numbers actually are below average defensively. Now, of course, Fowler and Heyward in CF and RF are probably better than Heyward/ Soler. But there is no reason to think Heyward will not be as good or better in CF as Fowler.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/questioning-dexter-fowlers-defensive-improvement/
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Fowler's numbers actually are below average defensively. Now, of course, Fowler and Heyward in CF and RF are probably better than Heyward/ Soler. But there is no reason to think Heyward will not be as good or better in CF as Fowler.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/questioning-dexter-fowlers-defensive-improvement/
Well, except for the fact that he's only played 30 games there before and being a great corner OF doesn't always translate to being a good CF. That would be like taking a great 2B and putting him at SS and expecting the same results. Sure some guys will be able to do it, but not all of them.
If you need a recent example, Yoenis Cespedes won a GG in left field. How did he look in CF in the World Series?
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Well, except for the fact that he's only played 30 games there before and being a great corner OF doesn't always translate to being a good CF. That would be like taking a great 2B and putting him at SS and expecting the same results. Sure some guys will be able to do it, but not all of them.
If you need a recent example, Yoenis Cespedes won a GG in left field. How did he look in CF in the World Series?
I've kind of changed my mind on signing a CF now...again, they will have ample opportunity to address it at the deadline, which I believe they will need to do. They can get through the regular season just fine, but will need to make some adjustments in order to get through three playoff series. Trying to be too fine now could potentially do more harm than good.
Like any team, a couple key injuries, significant slumps, etc., and the season could Head towards the toilet real quick. For right now, better to play a few months, see exactly what you have and leverage the solid farm system to close the gaps via trades and/or promotions. They were remarkably healthy last season. odds are that will not be the case this year, so who knows. By the time the deadline rolls around, they may have bigger priorities than fortifying the defense. Better to maintain some roste flexibility between now and then. Adding a CF now, could needlessly limit that flexibility down the road.
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I've kind of changed my mind on signing a CF now...again, they will have ample opportunity to address it at the deadline, which I believe they will need to do. They can get through the regular season just fine, but will need to make some adjustments in order to get through three playoff series. Trying to be too fine now could potentially do more harm than good.
Like any team, a couple key injuries, significant slumps, etc., and the season could Head towards the toilet real quick. For right now, better to play a few months, see exactly what you have and leverage the solid farm system to close the gaps via trades and/or promotions. They were remarkably healthy last season. odds are that will not be the case this year, so who knows. By the time the deadline rolls around, they may have bigger priorities than fortifying the defense. Better to maintain some roste flexibility between now and then. Adding a CF now, could needlessly limit that flexibility down the road.
Sums it up perfectly. Heyward should be fine in CF, especially in Wrigley. See how the season progresses and address any needs in July.
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Well, except for the fact that he's only played 30 games there before and being a great corner OF doesn't always translate to being a good CF. That would be like taking a great 2B and putting him at SS and expecting the same results. Sure some guys will be able to do it, but not all of them.
If you need a recent example, Yoenis Cespedes won a GG in left field. How did he look in CF in the World Series?
Heyward is a much better OF than Cespedes.
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I still think Soler can end up being an an above average RF. He has a cannon and one can be taught routes to the ball. I don't think Heyward in CF will be the long term solution, but his defense in CF should be good enough to allow them to wait to find the right deal for Soler. I don't think they need to be in any rush.
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Heyward is a much better OF than Cespedes.
I certainly agree with you. The point was that a guy who is certainly an above average LF was certainly a well below avg CF. Heyward is better, so it stands to reason that he'd be better in CF, but that doesn't mean he will be an above avg CF.
The Cubs will have to resources to make a move at the deadline for sure, but will they? If I were a Cub fan I would have been pretty disappointed acquiring Dan Haren last season. They could have gotten Cole Hamels. Maybe I'm way off base here, but I kind of get the feeling Theo is a little too in love with his prospects, the same way John Paxson was too in love with his guys, and could just never make the trade.
On the other hand, they have so much depth they will be forced to make a move eventually.
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I certainly agree with you. The point was that a guy who is certainly an above average LF was certainly a well below avg CF. Heyward is better, so it stands to reason that he'd be better in CF, but that doesn't mean he will be an above avg CF.
The Cubs will have to resources to make a move at the deadline for sure, but will they? If I were a Cub fan I would have been pretty disappointed acquiring Dan Haren last season. They could have gotten Cole Hamels. Maybe I'm way off base here, but I kind of get the feeling Theo is a little too in love with his prospects, the same way John Paxson was too in love with his guys, and could just never make the trade.
I agree that it doesn't mean Heyward will be above average but it is certainly possible. He's been working with a speed and agility trainer this offseason and his routes are excellent, from what I understand. I think he should be able to handle it for a year or two.
In terms of Hamels, there was sound logic behind not acquiring him at the deadline. At the time, the Cubs were trailing the Cards by a sizable margin and hadn't yet exploded. Trading a ton of young talent when you know you were likely in a one-game wildcard playoff game where anything can happen didn't really make any sense.
If the right move is there this year I don't think Epstein will hesitate trading prospects.
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I certainly agree with you. The point was that a guy who is certainly an above average LF was certainly a well below avg CF. Heyward is better, so it stands to reason that he'd be better in CF, but that doesn't mean he will be an above avg CF.
The Cubs will have to resources to make a move at the deadline for sure, but will they? If I were a Cub fan I would have been pretty disappointed acquiring Dan Haren last season. They could have gotten Cole Hamels. Maybe I'm way off base here, but I kind of get the feeling Theo is a little too in love with his prospects, the same way John Paxson was too in love with his guys, and could just never make the trade.
On the other hand, they have so much depth they will be forced to make a move eventually.
I haven't been a fan of everything that Theo's done, but I still feel confident that he knows what he's doing. Let's not compare him to the Bulls' FO just yet. I used to think that the Bulls FO liked "their guys" too much, but now I've begun to think that they simply lack the guts to make a major trade for fear of "losing" the deal so they'd rather stand pat and hope for the best.
I honestly don't think that Theo thought the Cubs had the horses to go all the way last year even with Hamels (or any other available ace), which is why they didn't come close to making a deal. If they're on a 100-win pace in late July this season, I wouldn't be surprised to see them pull off a major deal.
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Even if he didn't believe in their chances last year, Hamels is signed for like 4 more seasons. He wouldn't have been a short term rental. Certainly would have been worth the price to acquire him. The Cubs would have had a front 3 of Arrieta, Hamels and Lester, for the next few seasons. Yikes.
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Even if he didn't believe in their chances last year, Hamels is signed for like 4 more seasons. He wouldn't have been a short term rental. Certainly would have been worth the price to acquire him. The Cubs would have had a front 3 of Arrieta, Hamels and Lester, for the next few seasons. Yikes.
True but maybe they don't get Heyward if they make that move and they still have the prospects to deal moving forward.
I also assume that some of the players Philly wanted will be contributors to the MLB team this year.
Believe me, I'd love Hamels in the rotation right now but I understand why they ultimately didn't make the move.
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True but maybe they don't get Heyward if they make that move and they still have the prospects to deal moving forward.
I also assume that some of the players Philly wanted will be contributors to the MLB team this year.
Believe me, I'd love Hamels in the rotation right now but I understand why they ultimately didn't make the move.
That's all fair. Just for fun lets say they got Hamels, and maybe they can't get Heyward. They also have no need for Lackey. So instead of signing those two they just keep Fowler. Would you prefer Heyward and Lackey or Fowler and Hamels? There are certainly cases that can be made either way.
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I've kind of changed my mind on signing a CF now...again, they will have ample opportunity to address it at the deadline, which I believe they will need to do. They can get through the regular season just fine, but will need to make some adjustments in order to get through three playoff series. Trying to be too fine now could potentially do more harm than good.
Like any team, a couple key injuries, significant slumps, etc., and the season could Head towards the toilet real quick. For right now, better to play a few months, see exactly what you have and leverage the solid farm system to close the gaps via trades and/or promotions. They were remarkably healthy last season. odds are that will not be the case this year, so who knows. By the time the deadline rolls around, they may have bigger priorities than fortifying the defense. Better to maintain some roste flexibility between now and then. Adding a CF now, could needlessly limit that flexibility down the road.
Nailed it.
Theo did say that his biggest mistake in Boston was always trying to get the perfect roster before Spring Training started.
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That's all fair. Just for fun lets say they got Hamels, and maybe they can't get Heyward. They also have no need for Lackey. So instead of signing those two they just keep Fowler. Would you prefer Heyward and Lackey or Fowler and Hamels? There are certainly cases that can be made either way.
Cases can definitely be made either way - it's certainly an interesting scenario. If Lackey doesn't suddenly fall off due to age I definitely lean towards the Heyward/Lackey side. Getting Heyward's prime years is the biggest thing for me. And I still think there might be some pop in that bat that can be brought out. Plus it's not just Fowler/Hamels vs. Heyward/Lackey. It Fowler/Hamels vs. Heyward/Lackey + all of the prospects that Hamels would have cost. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Cubs add an impact starter this summer.
I still think the Sox should add another bat. I'd offer Desmond a big one-year deal to give him the chance to have a huge year and go back out on the market next season.
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I still think the Sox should add another bat. I'd offer Desmond a big one-year deal to give him the chance to have a huge year and go back out on the market next season.
Yeah, completely agree. The AL Central is going to be a slugfest I think. Right now the Sox are in a position to need a bounce back year from LaRoche (which I don't feel that comfortable about). Adding that one more bat, especially one that could have the impact of Desmond, not only at the plate but on the bases, would be a great addition. I'd even give him more years. If Anderson is ready next season they could always move Desmond somewhere else, heck, they'd even had open ABs at DH. If he has a good season, he could be a great trade chip too. I'd love to see it. Doubt it at this point though.
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Detroit has too many 'ifs'. If Verlander recovers his form from prior to his abdominal muscle tear. If Cabrera stays healthy. If VMart's knees are better and 2015 is the outlier. If JD Martinez continues to pound the ball. If Zimmerman returns to form. If the bullpen pieces actually perform to their prior levels and the bullpen ceases to be a temple of doom for the tigers. If all of the ifs fall Detroit's way, they can contend at a high level. Like trying to hit a trifecta, though. The odds of everything falling your way are too long.
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Yeah, completely agree. The AL Central is going to be a slugfest I think. Right now the Sox are in a position to need a bounce back year from LaRoche (which I don't feel that comfortable about). Adding that one more bat, especially one that could have the impact of Desmond, not only at the plate but on the bases, would be a great addition. I'd even give him more years. If Anderson is ready next season they could always move Desmond somewhere else, heck, they'd even had open ABs at DH. If he has a good season, he could be a great trade chip too. I'd love to see it. Doubt it at this point though.
KC clearly has to be the favorite in the AL Central (although I'm still stunned at the money they gave Kennedy). But that division and the AL in general seems to have a ton of parity. If you can add a 2-3 win player, which Desmond seems to be even with his awful season, how do you not do it? It could end up making a huge difference.
And Desmond has to be killing himself for not accepting that $107 million offer last year, assuming that it was accurate.
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KC clearly has to be the favorite in the AL Central (although I'm still stunned at the money they gave Kennedy). But that division and the AL in general seems to have a ton of parity. If you can add a 2-3 win player, which Desmond seems to be even with his awful season, how do you not do it? It could end up making a huge difference.
None of the projections have them winning the Central. In fact, Pecotah has them last in the division.
But then they have Cleveland winning it, so I don't know how much they should be trusted. Love the 3 guys at the top of their rotation, but offensively, they will be average at best.
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None of the projections have them winning the Central. In fact, Pecotah has them last in the division.
But then they have Cleveland winning it, so I don't know how much they should be trusted. Love the 3 guys at the top of their rotation, but offensively, they will be average at best.
Hey, the tribe just signed proven winner Juan Uribe. Seriously though, that guy wins wherever he goes. He has squeezed everything he can out of the end of his career. One year for 3 mil.
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Hey, the tribe just signed proven winner Juan Uribe. Seriously though, that guy wins wherever he goes. He has squeezed everything he can out of the end of his career. One year for 3 mil.
Juan Uribe is still a very good player.
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Heyward is a much better OF than Cespedes.
I was thinking a younger Ichiro is a better example. He was OK in CF when he had to play there, but he was a great RF.
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Baseball having a tough time in Venezuela.
http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/02/24/467914426/as-venezuela-crisis-deepens-u-s-baseball-teams-close-academies
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Dexter Fowler agreed to 3-year/$35M deal with Baltimore...and then signed a 1-year deal with the Cubs this morning?
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/D85DeTnI64xLq/200_s.gif)
Does this make Soler the 4th OF? Will he and Fowler platoon? Cubs also traded Coghlan for Aaron Brooks (the bad reliever, not the PG or former QB) so I'd assume the Opening Day OFs on the roster will be Heyward, Fowler, Soler and Schwarber.
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Does this make Soler the 4th OF? Will he and Fowler platoon? Cubs also traded Coghlan for Aaron Brooks (the bad reliever, not the PG or former QB) so I'd assume the Opening Day OFs on the roster will be Heyward, Fowler, Soler and Schwarber.
Id assume so. Put Soler in RF sometimes to move Heyward to center. My god this team is stacked. I thought back to the article about the Cubs still not ruling out Schwarber catching from time to time and almost passed out. This lineup is going to be outrageous during inter-league games. Theo doing Theo things.
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The lineup is so interchangeable, my head wants to explode.
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Theo: "This is it. We're not trading anyone else. We feel great about our outfield mix."
Fowler to play center, Heyward right...Soler will move around. Heyward in C some as well. Kind of looks like Soler is now Coghlan
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This lineup is going to be outrageous during inter-league games. Theo doing Theo things.
Which we will see right out of the gate @ LAA!
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Completely unexpected moves. If anyone can make it work it's Maddon.
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Heyward will play every. Can't believe Fowler took a one year deal to platoon. Schwarber has to get 550 ABs. Zobrist now set for 150 games at 2nd. Will they really keep Soler and Baez as utility players? If I'm either one I'm begging for a trade.
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Heyward will play every. Can't believe Fowler took a one year deal to platoon. Schwarber has to get 550 ABs. Zobrist now set for 150 games at 2nd. Will they really keep Soler and Baez as utility players? If I'm either one I'm begging for a trade.
I don't think Soler and Baez are going anywhere, at least this season. That kind of depth is huge for a team that is going for the World Series. Neither of them will complain either.
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I don't think Soler and Baez are going anywhere, at least this season. That kind of depth is huge for a team that is going for the World Series. Neither of them will complain either.
Agreed. Keep in mind there will be injuries, slumps, etc. Deal at the deadline if you have to, plus Fowler's on a 1 year deal. If I'm Baez or Soler, I can give it a year and see how things shake out.
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Agreed. Keep in mind there will be injuries, slumps, etc. Deal at the deadline if you have to, plus Fowler's on a 1 year deal. If I'm Baez or Soler, I can give it a year and see how things shake out.
Exactly. This helps the OF defense, will keep guys fresh, guards against injuries and slumps, as you mentioned. The versatility of what Maddon can do with the lineup depending on the opposing SP is outstanding.
I liked Cogs but he is going to get much more PT in Oakland. Hopefully he does well and earns himself a nice contract.
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I liked Cogs but he is going to get much more PT in Oakland. Hopefully he does well and earns himself a nice contract.
I was a huge Cogs fan. I hope he does well with the A's.
I would have been fine with Heyward in center, but I'm glad he'll be out in right.
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Seems poorly handled by Fowler. Sucks for the O's. Good for the Cubs. I have a hard time believing that Fowler signed up to platoon at all. It seems the point of the option would be to prove his value with another good year and get on the market again.
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Seems poorly handled by Fowler. Sucks for the O's. Good for the Cubs. I have a hard time believing that Fowler signed up to platoon at all. It seems the point of the option would be to prove his value with another good year and get on the market again.
Why? Because the media reported something that wasn't accurate? Fowler asked for an opt-out after one year. Baltimore did not want to give one and the Cubs would. Surprising but I don't see any issue with it.
Fowler will get the majority of time in CF but I see him starting 130-140 games instead of 150.
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Completely unexpected moves. If anyone can make it work it's Maddon.
Unexpected? I advocated signing Fowler no more than a week or two ago (but subsequently followed up to say it was also fine to wait and make a deadline deal for a CF). Timing aside, adding a CF should have been 100% expected by anyone who has seen Soler and Schwarber attempt to play defense. The defensive makeup of the roster had potential/likelihood to completely blow this season come playoff time.
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Unexpected? I advocated signing Fowler no more than a week or two ago (but subsequently followed up to say it was also fine to wait and make a deadline deal for a CF). Timing aside, adding a CF should have been 100% expected by anyone who has seen Soler and Schwarber attempt to play defense. The defensive makeup of the roster had potential/likelihood to completely blow this season come playoff time.
Advocating for signing Fowler and it appearing to be a realistic option are two very, very different things. It's not that they added an OF who can player CF that is the surprise. It's that the OF turned out to be Fowler.
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Passed up $15mil from the Cubs, 2 and 3 yr deals from the O's for a $8mil 1yr deal with the Cubs. Wow. Going after that ring.
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Seems poorly handled by Fowler. Sucks for the O's. Good for the Cubs. I have a hard time believing that Fowler signed up to platoon at all. It seems the point of the option would be to prove his value with another good year and get on the market again.
Apologies for the size of the image. Comments from Fowler's agent:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcGJgq0XEAEHG_0.jpg:large)
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Apologies for the size of the image. Comments from Fowler's agent:
Gotta save some face when your client turns down a 1-year/$15.8M deal, doesn't get the 3-year/$35M deal he was looking for and ends up going back to his original team for half the qualifying offer.
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Why? Because the media reported something that wasn't accurate? Fowler asked for an opt-out after one year. Baltimore did not want to give one and the Cubs would. Surprising but I don't see any issue with it.
Fowler will get the majority of time in CF but I see him starting 130-140 games instead of 150.
Ok well maybe t wasn't poorly handled by Fowler. It was poorly handled by the O's. Yikes.
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Typical O's.
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After hearing more about this, I'm not even sure it was poorly handled by the O's. It seems very odd that neither side came out earlier and said there was no deal. It seems odd that Fowler had a conversation with Jones that led him to believe he was coming before he was. The whole situation is just odd. Worked out great for the Cubs though.
But boy did Fowler screw his free agency. If his heart was really with the Cubs, why not just take the QO? He may have even been able to leverage that into a multiyear deal. He cost himself a bit of dough to end up in the same spot. Again, works out perfectly for the Cubs though.
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Chapman was just handed a 30 game suspension. Says he won't appeal.
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Chapman was just handed a 30 game suspension. Says he won't appeal.
He got off pretty easy - but from what I heard, he acknowledged his mistakes in a meeting the powers-that-be in MLB. That always counts for a lot.
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I have spent way too long reading about the conspiracy regarding Hank the Dog.
http://www.brewcrewball.com/2016/2/29/11130662/hank-the-ballpark-pup-is-dead (http://www.brewcrewball.com/2016/2/29/11130662/hank-the-ballpark-pup-is-dead)
http://deadspin.com/is-hank-the-dog-dead-1762638270 (http://deadspin.com/is-hank-the-dog-dead-1762638270)