MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Dawson Rental on October 13, 2015, 06:49:52 PM
-
Did anyone else who was watching the Cubs-Cardinals game happen to see someone wearing a Chicos Bail Bonds sweatshirt running down a foul ball on the third base side of the park?
-
Was he tall enough to ride the rollercoaster?
-
I saw that. Then I saw Kyle Schwarber, wearing a butchers apron and wielding a meat cleaver, slam a baseball to the moon.
-
I saw that. Then I saw Kyle Schwarber, wearing a butchers apron and wielding a meat cleaver, slam a baseball to the moon.
'roids can allow for that.
-
'roids can allow for that.
Says a Brewers fan?
-
Says a Brewers fan?
Yup. Seen the effects first hand. As have Cubs fans.
Well, those 2 fan bases...and every fan base in the MLB.
-
Yup. Seen the effects first hand. As have Cubs fans.
Well, those 2 fan bases...and every fan base in the MLB.
Well aside from Braun actually being dirty.
-
'roids can allow for that.
I'm skeptical about a couple young Cubs, but Schwarber is not even on the radar.
-
I'm skeptical about a couple young Cubs, but Schwarber is not even on the radar.
I think(?) you're a Cubs fan so curious as to who?
-
Did anyone else who was watching the Cubs-Cardinals game happen to see someone wearing a Chicos Bail Bonds sweatshirt running down a foul ball on the third base side of the park?
Saw that...and then thought...this is exactly the kind of event the 'bondsman would have tickets for.
-
I think(?) you're a Cubs fan so curious as to who?
Maybe the pitcher with the big guns who, after posting an ERA above 5.00 in his first four+ major league seasons, suddenly got really good when he turned 28 and even better at 29.
-
In one of the youth baseball leagues I umpire, one of the teams actually has CHICOS BAIL BONDS on its jerseys as the sponsor. So somebody has a good sense of humor.
-
Maybe the pitcher with the big guns who, after posting an ERA above 5.00 in his first four+ major league seasons, suddenly got really good when he turned 28 and even better at 29.
If you knew anything whatsoever about Arrieta that wouldn't even be a consideration. But you clearly don't so you said something dumb.
-
Did anyone else who was watching the Cubs-Cardinals game happen to see someone wearing a Chicos Bail Bonds sweatshirt running down a foul ball on the third base side of the park?
I saw it....I own the same jersey. Tanner Boyle edition. Our softball team wore those for years.
-
Did anyone else who was watching the Cubs-Cardinals game happen to see someone wearing a Chicos Bail Bonds sweatshirt running down a foul ball on the third base side of the park?
Was he running away from the flying projectile? He should have sat behind the net.
-
If you knew anything whatsoever about Arrieta that wouldn't even be a consideration. But you clearly don't so you said something dumb.
What, are you his friend or something. Get over yourself.
-
I'm skeptical about a couple young Cubs, but Schwarber is not even on the radar.
He might be on top of my radar for the young Cubs.
Well aside from Braun actually being dirty.
You're pretty naive if you think only athletes who have been caught have used PEDs.
I've come to accept that every major professional sport team in the USA has players who have used PEDs on them.
-
What, are you his friend or something. Get over yourself.
No. I was just responding to a lazy, uninformed comment. There are a number of reasons Arrieta has become this type of pitcher. I'd be stunned if PEDs is one of them.
-
He might be on top of my radar for the young Cubs.
You're pretty naive if you think only athletes who have been caught have used PEDs.
I've come to accept that every major professional sport team in the USA has players who have used PEDs on them.
Nowhere did I state that I think only athletes that have been caught are the only ones that have used PEDs. I also have no reason to suspect anyone on the Cubs.
-
No. I was just responding to a lazy, uninformed comment. There are a number of reasons Arrieta has become this type of pitcher. I'd be stunned if PEDs is one of them.
So far you've called a poster dumb, lazy, and uninformed.
You're the tops at Internet arguing, sir.
Nowhere did I state that I think only athletes that have been caught are the only ones that have used PEDs. I also have no reason to suspect anyone on the Cubs.
I don't know, man. I don't think that MLB's PED testing is all that great.
-
Did anyone else who was watching the Cubs-Cardinals game happen to see someone wearing a Chicos Bail Bonds sweatshirt running down a foul ball on the third base side of the park?
Was the baseball signed by Crean?
-
He might be on top of my radar for the young Cubs.
Schwarber should be at the bottom of the list. The guy looks and is built the same as he was in high school (unless, you think he was using then). This isn't a crazily unnatural, Clay Matthews type of situation.
-
I also have no reason to suspect anyone on the Cubs.
I'll give you a reason to suspect anyone on the Cubs:
Because they play for the Cubs.
-
Maybe the pitcher with the big guns who, after posting an ERA above 5.00 in his first four+ major league seasons, suddenly got really good when he turned 28 and even better at 29.
Here is a good article on Arrieta and why he has become better. He hasn't become stronger, which PEDs would do, but he has become insanely more accurate with his pitches.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-jake-arrieta-dominance-chicago-cubs/
-
Superbar?
-
Here is a good article on Arrieta and why he has become better. He hasn't become stronger, which PEDs would do, but he has become insanely more accurate with his pitches.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-jake-arrieta-dominance-chicago-cubs/
Basically, he didn't truly know how to pitch and apparently the Orioles didn't know how to teach him...but Chris Bosio did.
-
Basically, he didn't truly know how to pitch and apparently the Orioles didn't know how to teach him...but Chris Bosio did.
Right. And a number of Cub pitchers in their bullpen have also shown improvement. I think there is a reason why the Cubs retained him through all the manager changes.
-
Was he tall enough to ride the rollercoaster?
I cringed when I read that, no doubt. Clint Eastwood would have cringed. ;)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/4vjp7s.jpg)
-
PC outrage aside, that old school Warriors shirt is fire flames. I would wear the hell out of that.
-
Schwarber should be at the bottom of the list. The guy looks and is built the same as he was in high school (unless, you think he was using then). This isn't a crazily unnatural, Clay Matthews type of situation.
You don't have to look like you're a body builder to have taken PEDs. Look at Nelson Cruz. He's roughly the same body type as Schwarber and he's been a big boned guy from the first day I saw him as a professional (maybe he was some skinny little guy before that, I don't know). The next time someone who hasn't used PEDs hits a baseball out of PNC Park will be the first.
-
PC outrage aside, that old school Warriors shirt is fire flames. I would wear the hell out of that.
Yes it is. I have a gold one and white one as well.
Eventually will end up in a Warrior quilt or something else my talented wife creates.
-
You don't have to look like you're a body builder to have taken PEDs. Look at Nelson Cruz. He's roughly the same body type as Schwarber and he's been a big boned guy from the first day I saw him as a professional (maybe he was some skinny little guy before that, I don't know). The next time someone who hasn't used PEDs hits a baseball out of PNC Park will be the first.
So, basically anyone who can hit a baseball a long way is on PEDs? Got it. Matt Stairs hit it out of PNC. Is he a PED guy too?
-
So, basically anyone who can hit a baseball a long way is on PEDs? Got it. Matt Stairs hit it out of PNC. Is he a PED guy too?
Absolutely he is.
You think it's just some coincidence that 183 of his career 265 home runs (70%) came in 8 years out of his 20 year professional career (40%) right in the heart of the steroid ear? That's 23 home runs/year during those 8 years, compared to the 7 home runs/year for the other 12 years of his career.
Also probably a coincidence that this happened when he was 28 years old. Because most professional athletes usually take until they're nearly 30 to start performing at their best.
He went from not hitting over 10 home runs in a season until he was 29 to hitting no less than 16 (maxing out at 38) from the time he was 29-36 years old. That is not normal at all.
I have a bridge that I'd like to sell you, too.
-
Yes it is. I have a gold one and white one as well.
Eventually will end up in a Warrior quilt or something else my talented wife creates.
Yeah but how's her rack?
-
Maybe the pitcher with the big guns who, after posting an ERA above 5.00 in his first four+ major league seasons, suddenly got really good when he turned 28 and even better at 29.
He's always had the stuff and the work ethic. The only thing that changed was his fastball being thrown better.
I know it's still the offseason, but let's chill with the hyperbole.
-
So far you've called a poster dumb, lazy, and uninformed.
You're the tops at Internet arguing, sir.
I don't know, man. I don't think that MLB's PED testing is all that great.
I didn't call the poster dumb, lazy and uninformed. I called what he posted/insinuated about Arrieta dumb, lazy, and uninformed.
-
Absolutely he is.
You think it's just some coincidence that 183 of his career 265 home runs (70%) came in 8 years out of his 20 year professional career (40%) right in the heart of the steroid ear? That's 23 home runs/year during those 8 years, compared to the 7 home runs/year for the other 12 years of his career.
Also probably a coincidence that this happened when he was 28 years old. Because most professional athletes usually take until they're nearly 30 to start performing at their best.
He went from not hitting over 10 home runs in a season until he was 29 to hitting no less than 16 (maxing out at 38) from the time he was 29-36 years old. That is not normal at all.
I have a bridge that I'd like to sell you, too.
Is there anyone you DON'T think is on PEDs?
-
He's always had the stuff and the work ethic. The only thing that changed was his fastball being thrown better.
I know it's still the offseason, but let's chill with the hyperbole.
Not to mention Arrieta's pitching approach and pitch variety changed IMMEDIATELY when he got to the Cubs. Its even called out in the Grantland piece. He always had good stuff, he was just very inconsistent. You can still see flashes, for as dominant as he is, he still loses quite a few breaking balls, not hangers, but pitches that never turn over and come way inside.
-
Is there anyone you DON'T think is on PEDs?
Scooter Gennett and Jean Segura, unfortunately.
But seriously, you think Matt Stairs DIDN'T take PEDs?
-
Did Wade just call into ESPN1000 today? Someone called in earlier stating emphatically that Cubs hitters were on a PED program.
-
Did Wade just call into ESPN1000 today? Someone called in earlier stating emphatically that Cubs hitters were on a PED program.
? I think I said 1 of the Cubs players has used PEDs. Unless I missed something and Matt Stairs is currently playing for the Chicago Cubs? Please correct me if that's wrong. I'll hang up and listen.
-
Scooter Gennett and Jean Segura, unfortunately.
But seriously, you think Matt Stairs DIDN'T take PEDs?
I don't know if Stairs took PEDs, but if he did he sure didn't take the right ones!
-
I don't know if Stairs took PEDs, but if he did he sure didn't take the right ones!
I'd argue he absolutely took the right ones. The guy was 28 years old and couldn't stick in the MLB. Suddenly he's hitting 23 home runs per year at the age of 29 and it lasts through the age of 36. It'd be like if steroids helped as much in basketball as they do in baseball and Jerel McNeal decided to take some today and suddenly for the next 10 years he averages 12 and 5 after never doing anything in the NBA. I'd say that would be a pretty nice jump for him, just like it was for Matt Stairs. Certainly made a nice chunk of change for him.
But hey, if you guys think I'm just some big time skeptic for thinking that at 29 some guy magically finds his way, right in the middle of the steroid era, maybe you're right.
-
? I think I said 1 of the Cubs players has used PEDs. Unless I missed something and Matt Stairs is currently playing for the Chicago Cubs? Please correct me if that's wrong. I'll hang up and listen.
It was a joke. Simmer Mr. Hot Take.
-
I'd argue he absolutely took the right ones. The guy was 28 years old and couldn't stick in the MLB. Suddenly he's hitting 23 home runs per year at the age of 29 and it lasts through the age of 36. It'd be like if steroids helped as much in basketball as they do in baseball and Jerel McNeal decided to take some today and suddenly for the next 10 years he averages 12 and 5 after never doing anything in the NBA. I'd say that would be a pretty nice jump for him, just like it was for Matt Stairs. Certainly made a nice chunk of change for him.
But hey, if you guys think I'm just some big time skeptic for thinking that at 29 some guy magically finds his way, right in the middle of the steroid era, maybe you're right.
Sometimes a player's biggest obstacle is not being given an opportunity. Stairs was the Eastern League MVP in 2001 so he could always hit. Before that 8 year window to which you keep referring, he never got consistent playing time at the Major League level. Bill James has even argued that if Stairs was put in the right situation from the get-go, he would be a Hall of Famer.
To continue with your basketball analogy...Mike James went undrafted, made his NBA debut at age 26, played for 5 teams in his first 4 seasons and averaged 9 points and 3.5 assts on 41.1% shooting. At age 30, he averaged over 20 points and nearly 6 asts on 46.9% shooting. PEDs or opportunity?
-
Hey so, back on track here...
According to Zach Zaidman, the Chicos shirt was being worn by George McCaskey.
-
PC outrage aside, that old school Warriors shirt is fire flames. I would wear the hell out of that.
You can purchase on Ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARQUETTE-WARRIORS-T-SHIRT-/191325697703?var=&hash=item2c8be676a7
-
If you knew anything whatsoever about Arrieta that wouldn't even be a consideration. But you clearly don't so you said something dumb.
You sound a lot like a Ryan Braun fan, circa 2011.
Look, I have no idea whether Arrieta is a juicer. Despite your bravado and claims of superior knowledge, neither do you.
But the fact is, a middling pitcher barely hanging on to a major-league career (remember, he was optioned twice to Triple A in 2013 before being traded to the Cubs) suddenly becoming dominant in his late 20s is virtually unheard of, and in this day and age cause for questions ... whether or not it hurts your feels.
-
You sound a lot like a Ryan Braun fan, circa 2011.
Look, I have no idea whether Arrieta is a juicer. Despite your bravado and claims of superior knowledge, neither do you.
But the fact is, a middling pitcher barely hanging on to a major-league career (remember, he was optioned twice to Triple A in 2013 before being traded to the Cubs) suddenly becoming dominant in his late 20s is virtually unheard of, and in this day and age cause for questions ... whether or not it hurts your feels.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-jake-arrieta-dominance-chicago-cubs/
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jake-arrieta-is-not-your-normal-ace/
Seems changing your mechanics can do a lot.
-
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-jake-arrieta-dominance-chicago-cubs/
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jake-arrieta-is-not-your-normal-ace/
Seems changing your mechanics can do a lot.
Just like Sammy Sosa changed his swing and plate approach prior to the 1998 season?
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/09/01/sports/baseball-homers-come-with-patience-neck-neck-with-mcgwire-sosa-knocking-them.html
Again, none of us know how Arrieta became elite so late in his career. I think we can all agree it's highly unusual. If you think the question of PEDs is somehow automatically invalid or illegitimate, you're every bit the naive homer as the Cubs fans who defended Sosa to the very end.
-
Just like Sammy Sosa changed his swing and plate approach prior to the 1998 season?
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/09/01/sports/baseball-homers-come-with-patience-neck-neck-with-mcgwire-sosa-knocking-them.html
Again, none of us know how Arrieta became elite so late in his career. I think we can all agree it's highly unusual. If you think the question of PEDs is somehow automatically invalid or illegitimate, you're every bit the naive homer as the Cubs fans who defended Sosa to the very end.
Did you actually even read the articles that were posted or did you just immediately decide look one up on Sosa? I could share some additional articles regarding Arrieta but I assume it would be pointless.
First of all, this is not "so late" in Arrieta's career. He is square in his prime right now at 29 years old. He was an excellent pitcher last year and began showing some progress with the Cubs back in 2013 after he was called up after the trade. This is not the case of a pitcher who had never seen any success who suddenly begins to dominate.
Arrieta always had a world of potential and was a top prospect for the Orioles. The problem was he could never harness it. The pitching infrastructure and instruction with the Orioles didn't mesh with Arrieta. They had a very cookie cutter approach that was used for all of their young prospects (Arrieta, Tillman, Matusz, etc.).
This IS all about repeating his mechanics and command of his pitches. He has always thrown hard and had very good stuff - he was just never able to consistently harness it. This is not the case of a guy who suddenly gained 3 -5 mph on his fastball in his early to mid-30s from out of nowhere.
Not everyone's career progression is the same. Arrieta was able to find success in his late 20s. And because of that he should be suspected of juicing? I'll be the first to eat crow if it is ever proven true but for now it's nothing more than ridiculous speculation. That's not naivete whatsoever. It's a guy with elite talent who works hard finally figuring it out.
-
Did you actually even read the articles that were posted or did you just immediately decide look one up on Sosa? I could share some additional articles regarding Arrieta but I assume it would be pointless.
First of all, this is not "so late" in Arrieta's career. He is square in his prime right now at 29 years old. He was an excellent pitcher last year and began showing some progress with the Cubs back in 2013 after he was called up after the trade. This is not the case of a pitcher who had never seen any success who suddenly begins to dominate.
Arrieta always had a world of potential and was a top prospect for the Orioles. The problem was he could never harness it. The pitching infrastructure and instruction with the Orioles didn't mesh with Arrieta. They had a very cookie cutter approach that was used for all of their young prospects (Arrieta, Tillman, Matusz, etc.).
This IS all about repeating his mechanics and command of his pitches. He has always thrown hard and had very good stuff - he was just never able to consistently harness it. This is not the case of a guy who suddenly gained 3 -5 mph on his fastball in his early to mid-30s from out of nowhere.
Not everyone's career progression is the same. Arrieta was able to find success in his late 20s. And because of that he should be suspected of juicing? I'll be the first to eat crow if it is ever proven true but for now it's nothing more than ridiculous speculation. That's not naivete whatsoever. It's a guy with elite talent who works hard finally figuring it out.
I actually think Arrieta is a far less likely candidate than a lot of players to have used PEDs. Having said that, this is exactly the case of a pitcher who never had any success who suddenly begins to dominate.
He went from having ERAs in the 4.66-6.20 ERA with a WHIP between 1.33-1.77 and WAR between -1.0 to 0.6 from ages 24-27 and then at age 28 went to 2.53 ERA, 0.99 WHIP, and WAR of 5.3. That's essentially the very definition of a pitcher who never had any success to suddenly dominating.
He has had a relatively consistent average fastball speed, but his slider speed did go from 85 MPH in his rookie year to 90 MPH the past 2 years.
-
I don't honestly know the answer, but other than pointing to pitching stats, would there be any other indicators that a pitcher might be on PEDs? The obvious, of course, is average pitch speed. Any others?
-
I don't honestly know the answer, but other than pointing to pitching stats, would there be any other indicators that a pitcher might be on PEDs? The obvious, of course, is average pitch speed. Any others?
1. How quickly they're able to recover from a DL stint.
2. How quickly they are willing to sign a long-term contract.
-
I actually think Arrieta is a far less likely candidate than a lot of players to have used PEDs. Having said that, this is exactly the case of a pitcher who never had any success who suddenly begins to dominate.
He went from having ERAs in the 4.66-6.20 ERA with a WHIP between 1.33-1.77 and WAR between -1.0 to 0.6 from ages 24-27 and then at age 28 went to 2.53 ERA, 0.99 WHIP, and WAR of 5.3. That's essentially the very definition of a pitcher who never had any success to suddenly dominating.
He has had a relatively consistent average fastball speed, but his slider speed did go from 85 MPH in his rookie year to 90 MPH the past 2 years.
He also had a 3.66 ERA and a 1.12 WHIP with the Cubs in 9 starts after the trade in 2013. There's been a clear progression since his acquisition and it's too bad some thoughts jump to PEDs instead of a guy putting it together. As for his slider speed, I won't pretend to know about that but the change in velocity could be mechanics, grip, release point, added strength, etc. As a Cubs fan I am biased but I've watched him pitch for 2 and a half years now and have listened to him speak many times and I just don't see it. If Kyle Hendricks comes back throwin 94 next year then we can talk.