After watching the 4 games overseas, I am wondering if Wojo is doing any favors with Luke to improve his game. Is it off limits for him to step outside and shooti heard wojo didn't want luke to improve his game...so he has told him no face up jumpers...won't even let him practice his shot to earn the right to take them in a game.
the 15 footer? It would make him a better player and an NBA player, am I missing something here? He never fronts the rim, always having his back to the basket?
Shoots free throws pretty good?
i heard wojo didn't want luke to improve his game...so he has told him no face up jumpers...won't even let him practice his shot to earn the right to take them in a game.
i heard wojo didn't want luke to improve his game...so he has told him no face up jumpers...won't even let him practice his shot to earn the right to take them in a game.
One of the big reasons Wojo is insisting on a drug-free team culture is to eliminate a reason for Luke to leave Marquette early
[/quote
Nice work.
It is amazing, Luke found the situation in Bloomington so squirmy that he transferred to Buzz U.
Correction....he was homesick which is why all his schools he looked at transfering to were very close to home or had small settings.
UWM
MU
Creighton
He was not upset one iota that Buzz is gone. In fact, he believes he is in a better situation and couldn't have worked out better with the Buzzard gone. You can verify that within the department if you wish.
Wait, Creighton is close to home? Bloomington is bigger than Omaha? Jeeze, here I thought the 5 hour 40 minute drive from Germantown to Bloomington was shorter than the 8 hour drive from Germantown to Omaha and that Omaha's population of 435,000+ people was more than Bloomington's population of 83,000. Silly me.
Correction....he was homesick which is why all his schools he looked at transfering to were very close to home or had small settings.
UWM
MU
Creighton
He was not upset one iota that Buzz is gone. In fact, he believes he is in a better situation and couldn't have worked out better with the Buzzard gone. You can verify that within the department if you wish.
Apparently the conjunction OR is not understood by you
He was not upset one iota that Buzz is gone. In fact, he believes he is in a better situation and couldn't have worked out better with the Buzzard gone. You can verify that within the department if you wish.
I think it is sad people imply Luke is a liar, over and over again. That's a shame.
So he was fine driving a long way, as long as the student population was under 15,000, but if it was around 30,000, then he had to be close to home, is what you're saying?
Or maybe he just wanted some structure around the program he was playing in. A clean program.
It is amazing, Luke found the situation in Bloomington so squirmy that he transferred to Buzz U.This was like sprinkling the lawn when you need nightcrawlers
can verify with the family that you are incorrect on the schools listed.
After watching the 4 games overseas, I am wondering if Wojo is doing any favors with Luke to improve his game. Is it off limits for him to step outside and shoot
the 15 footer? It would make him a better player and an NBA player, am I missing something here? He never fronts the rim, always having his back to the basket?
Shoots free throws pretty good?
I think it is sad people imply Luke is a liar, over and over again. That's a shame.i don't care to name drop (because you do enough of that for the entire board)...but you're full of it.
So, Marquette gets it's first legitimate inside presence in almost two decades and you want to move him to the perimeter? That's taking contrarian thinking a little too far for me.
i don't care to name drop (because you do enough of that for the entire board)...but you're full of it.
It's a crying shame that the young man has said over and over again why he transferred and MU fans call him a liar. That is a shame. Very sad. Do I think things were going on at IU that made it very difficult on him? Absolutely, in fact heard some of that directly from peeps at MU and IU. Was a big part of that also being homesick, smaller situation, etc? Yes.
I thought we would be better than to insinuate the kid is a liar. I'm taking him at his word, the rest of you can do what you wish in your anti coach screeds. When I read stuff here where people say homesickness had NOTHING to do with it....it disgusts me. Because people are calling him a liar. Shameful.
"Part of the reason I came back was to play for a team in Wisconsin, to play for a team I grew up cheering for," Fischer said. "After I left (the state of Wisconsin) I didn't understand why I didn't stay home."
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/homesickness-brought-germantowns-luke-fischer-to-marquette-b99184125z1-240191061.html
http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2013/12/30/5258064/luke-fischer-to-transfer-from-indiana
http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/luke-fischer-transfers-from-indiana-to-marquette-010514
http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2014/1/16/5312436/feature-marquette-unveils-lastest-transfer-luke-fischer
http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/luke-fischer-quickly-makes-presence-felt-for-marquette-golden-eagles-121614
Lol
Nice dodge. Par for the course.
Not one person said Luke was a liar, not once. I would've been homesick as well, if all everyone I was around did was do drugs and drink while I was in college and the person who was supposed to hold them accountable did nothing about it until an 18 year old decided to drink and then got behind the wheel of a car and ran over one of my teammates. But maybe that's just me.
It's a crying shame that the young man has said over and over again why he transferred and MU fans call him a liar. That is a shame. Very sad. Do I think things were going on at IU that made it very difficult on him? Absolutely, in fact heard some of that directly from peeps at MU and IU. Was a big part of that also being homesick, smaller situation, etc? Yes.you're too much.
I thought we would be better than to insinuate the kid is a liar. I'm taking him at his word, the rest of you can do what you wish in your anti coach screeds. When I read stuff here where people say homesickness had NOTHING to do with it....it disgusts me. Because people are calling him a liar. Shameful.
"Part of the reason I came back was to play for a team in Wisconsin, to play for a team I grew up cheering for," Fischer said. "After I left (the state of Wisconsin) I didn't understand why I didn't stay home."
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/homesickness-brought-germantowns-luke-fischer-to-marquette-b99184125z1-240191061.html
http://www.crimsonquarry.com/2013/12/30/5258064/luke-fischer-to-transfer-from-indiana
http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/luke-fischer-transfers-from-indiana-to-marquette-010514
http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2014/1/16/5312436/feature-marquette-unveils-lastest-transfer-luke-fischer
http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/luke-fischer-quickly-makes-presence-felt-for-marquette-golden-eagles-121614
I think it is sad people imply Luke is a liar, over and over again. That's a shame.Luke is Hoopaloop.
Beat goes on.....https://indiana.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1795332
So, Marquette gets it's first legitimate inside presence in almost two decades and you want to move him to the perimeter? That's taking contrarian thinking a little too far for me.
Crean's got that place cleaner as a whistle.
The only concern I have is that Kentucky has been to four Final Fours in five years and IU's had its sixth drug- or alcohol-related offense since 2014.
Crean needs to get Cris Carter in there to talk to these IU guys about getting a "fall guy".
The IU Hoops Symposium. Crean can namedrop, his players can stay off of the front page of the newspapers. Everybody wins.
This is why a program like IU needs to give out as many walk-on slots as they do scholarships. That way each basketball player can have their own walk-on to crotch the booze for them. It's okay...Crean will get 'em out.
Bueller...Chico's....MIA
-Indiana Boards
He's over at Peegs saving the day.
They are loving themselves some TC over at Peegs........How ironic that 1 poster used Chico's "just win baby" line against TC......lol
http://indiana.forums.rivals.com/threads/here-we-go-again-bryant-and-holt-cited-for-alcohol-possession.48633/
You can't be talking to me because I never think we should win at all cost and I think any player who gets caught doing drugs or drinking should be gone
But you're perfectly ok with the Sweet 16.Once you lower standards for one thing, it lowers them for all.
Luke's game would be better if he could consistently knock down a 12-15 ft jumper. The mere threat of an effective jumper would make his post moves more effective.
Wait, Creighton is close to home? Bloomington is bigger than Omaha? Jeeze, here I thought the 5 hour 40 minute drive from Germantown to Bloomington was shorter than the 8 hour drive from Germantown to Omaha and that Omaha's population of 435,000+ people was more than Bloomington's population of 83,000. Silly me.
Shocking that Chicos would go out of his way to make himself look foolish in an attempt to save face for Crean.
Also shocking that a 19 year old college basketball player wouldn't come out and say, "I am not comfortable with the rampant drug use and lack of accountability within the basketball program so I am looking to transfer."
:o
So, Marquette gets it's first legitimate inside presence in almost two decades and you want to move him to the perimeter? That's taking contrarian thinking a little too far for me.
I believe Davante Gardner would have a word with you. He destroyed everyone inside.
Luke is a true post. He doesn't need to develop a 15 foot jumper in the college game. The kid shot 61% from the field last year. He's not going to shoot 62+% from 15 and out. That's just going to lower his efficiency.
Shaq's game wouldn't have been any better by him developing a 15 foot jumper. Some people are best planting their butt under the rim and going to work. That's where Luke eats. He used to shoot (and make) 3 pointers at Germantown. But why stand out there and shoot 30% from there when you shoot 70% under the bucket?
Because that 15 foot jumper adds another weapon to your arsenal that the defense has to account for. Just like a solid running game makes your passing game better in football, the ability to hit a short jumper makes your post moves more effective. Is it necessary? No. Should he take a lot of 15 foot jumpers? No. But if he has the look and can make it, it will make him a more effective post.
Just to take a very concrete look at this -- do you think it's true that (1) the lower shooting % on jumpers will be compensated for by higher shooting % on paint shots and his overall shooting % will stay the same or go up? Or that (2) his paint shooting % will stay the same but he'll have more opportunities to get the ball there (and more shots overall)? Or that (3) he'll generally be more versatile and his being able to plausibly play from midrange territory improves spacing so that team shooting % will go up? I guess it's hard to convince myself that 1 is true. Since his overall usage wasn't crazy high 2 could be true. (3) is getting complex enough that it seems like it would be hard to empirically evaluate.
Luke is a true post. He doesn't need to develop a 15 foot jumper in the college game. The kid shot 61% from the field last year. He's not going to shoot 62+% from 15 and out. That's just going to lower his efficiency.
Shaq's game wouldn't have been any better by him developing a 15 foot jumper. Some people are best planting their butt under the rim and going to work. That's where Luke eats. He used to shoot (and make) 3 pointers at Germantown. But why stand out there and shoot 30% from there when you shoot 70% under the bucket?
Bueller...Chico's....MIA
-Indiana Boards
I'm right here, sorry I missed your post. College kids drinking at college. I'm thunderstruck.
Shaq's game would have been immensely better had he developed a 15 foot shot. He just couldn't shoot. Any time you add more versatility to your game, the harder you are to guard and the more defenses have to account for you. Really if Shaq had developed anything resembling Tim Duncan's mid-range game, he would likely go down as the best big man in NBA history.
This is the first time I have seen anyone in a basketball thread arguing that adding additional dimensions to your game isn't a good thing.
Now I think we can all agree that the OP's suggestion that Wojo might not be doing him any favors, and that it might be "off limits" for him to shoot that shot is a little odd.
Sure, if he has the low post game perfected and it's either do nothing to improve your game and stay where you are or start working on a 15 foot jumper in practice then you might as well go ahead and work on your perimeter game. But again, I don't see the need unless that is absolutely perfected, and it's not. I'd rather have Luke continue to work on his low post game and shoot over 60% from the field with all of his shots coming from inside 8 feet than have him shoot 50% from the field overall because now he's taking 4 less shots from where he's shooting 60+% and moving them out to where he's going to shoot 35% from. Who cares if the defense doesn't have to guard him from 15 feet when they can't stop him from 8 and in?
You would've been all over this if this was Bert.
You are making the assumption that he would have a finite number of shots per game. Last year he averaged 8 or so. If he had the 15 foot shot as part of his arsenal, he would have likely had more shots. And yes, while his efficiency may have gone down, overall team efficiency may have actually increased under such a scenario. If he has another weapon that defenses have to respect, it opens passing lanes, driving lanes, etc.
If it led to a bunch of them also getting into a fight with fellow students \ non students...yes. Which is what happened to Bert's boys...three times that we publicly know of.
Context is everything.
Wait I remember Vander punching the kid in qdoba, and the brawl that was caught on tape at the club what's the other one?
If it led to a bunch of them also getting into a fight with fellow students \ non students...yes. Which is what happened to Bert's boys...three times that we publicly know of.
Context is everything.
The first incident was Vander punching another student who (allegedly) made a racist remark. No mention of alcohol being involved.
The second turned out to be a total non event. No fight, no drinking. Underage basketball team members were in a club where alcohol was being served, nothing more.
Don't remember what the third incident was - if there was one.
At IU it's booze, drugs, driving when impaired, multiple offenses from the same people. The latest is the most pathetic. Sitting in a car outside a 7 Eleven at 1:00 am drinking vodka from a bottle . 7 alcohol/drug incidents in a very short time frame. That's IU's "context". That's IU's culture.
Yeah I don't really get the whole drinking while sitting in a parked car thing. You're on a college campus, go to a party where it'll A) be way more fun, B) there's a much smaller chance of getting in trouble, and C) you'll probably be treated like a celebrity. These kids were almost asking to be caught.
If it led to a bunch of them also getting into a fight with fellow students \ non students...yes. Which is what happened to Bert's boys...three times that we publicly know of.
Context is everything.
Well, if things went wrong it would be the fault of the guns, for sure!
count the basket and...automatic...automatic...And 2?
Yet you ignored the context in the IU case. The one of the offenders is a repeat offender - you know, the guy whose was drunk driving when the other player jumped into it...or whatever you claimed earlier?
If this is true, it's too bad none of them had legally purchased guns on them. Because, mix guns with youth and booze and, well, nothing could ever go wrong!
The "brawl at the club" that started as "DJO broke a glass bottle over someone's head" by Badger fans (and maybe Chicos/Hoopaloop at that time, to make Bert look "squirmy"), only to have the video come out and finding out it was really some players being moved out of the club because other people were fighting? I'm sure Chicos/Hoopaloop was all over that, when in reality all that ever came of it was a couple of players getting cited for being in a club underage (not even an underage drinking ticket). But with the latest of the many IU incidents under Crean, it's just college kids being college kids. Chicos calling a spade a spade, a'ina?
Buzz wasn't a "just win baby" type of coach. Not even close. He was quirky, not well liked and made some recruiting mistakes, but he wasn't dirty from a recruiting or academic stand point. Really you need to stop implying that's the case.
Todd Mayo recruiting was questionable. Nobody else that I knew of was sketchy but Todds recruitment was not very honest from what I hear.
Buzz wasn't a "just win baby" type of coach. Not even close. He was quirky, not well liked and made some recruiting mistakes, but he wasn't dirty from a recruiting or academic stand point. Really you need to stop implying that's the case.
Sigh. Yup, there you go again. Don't forget BMA, Brad Forester, etc, etc.
The video only captures part of it, 911 tapes as well. Not sure who called it a brawl. At any rate...
http://fox6now.com/2012/04/09/police-report-released-after-mu-basketball-incident-at-downtown-club/
At any rate, too much inside info from people I respect. I'm glad his assistant was fired for breaking NCAA rules and lying about. Glad people got to see Buzzard's reaction to it internally in the dept. Some of the other crazy nonsense going on over the years. He's in a better place that will allow that BS, and we are in a better place without him.
Just win baby is a terrible philosophy in college sports and one of the reasons why it has sullied it so much. You can win without the nonsense, but enough people drink the kool aid when a few wins start piling up and they turn a blind eye. No thanks.
Now, who was it here that made this thread not about Luke Fischer?
Not what I claimed, what the law enforcement investigators stated in their official report where no fault was found for the accident by that person.
As if you haven't embarrassed yourself enough, you go and site Fox 6 News. Wow.
So you'll take police reports for the Bible...as long as they make Tom Crean look like a saint (although, in reality, both people involved there were Tommy's kids so...), but if the police report (and the video) says that the only thing the 6 players were at fault for was being inside of a club (not drinking, just being physically inside the club) then it's wrong, and in fact Bert probably somehow is behind it all. In fact, the players probably murdered a few guys inside that club but Bert got it all covered up. You have way, way too much inside information on this topic, Chicos. You can't tell us what the real story is, but it's not what the police, thanks to Bert, want you to think.
You really are something, Chicos.
Buzz wasn't a "just win baby" type of coach. Not even close. He was quirky, not well liked and made some recruiting mistakes, but he wasn't dirty from a recruiting or academic stand point. Really you need to stop implying that's the case.
Buzz wasn't a "just win baby" type of coach. Not even close. He was quirky, not well liked and made some recruiting mistakes, but he wasn't dirty from a recruiting or academic stand point. Really you need to stop implying that's the case.
So can we just ignore him, like the rest of college basketball is about to?
The Hillbilly is gone and he ain't coming back. So can we all agree to the following:
1) We had a good time when things were good.
2) We're proud of Jae, JB, Wes, DJO and the rest of the guys who played for Marquette during the Hillbilly's time and have made it to the NBA. Impressive record.
3) We had a bad divorce with the Hillbilly and he took everything of value in the house.
4) We've moved on to a new "pretty girl" who brought in recruits this year the Hillbilly could only dream of. We've got a great team, a great coach and great potential.
Let's treat the Hillbilly like a bad ex-spouse. All we want to do is be National Champion with Coach Wojo and make the Hillbilly rot in his Hokie tomb down in West Nowhereville, Virginia.
So can we just ignore him, like the rest of college basketball is about to?
Haanif and Houser are great adds but outside of Henry who has Wojo brought in that Buzz couldn't touch?
Haanif and Houser are great adds but outside of Henry who has Wojo brought in that Buzz couldn't touch?
As if you haven't embarrassed yourself enough, you go and site Fox 6 News. Wow.Tired of people parroting this "Talking Point" Ask Cheryl Atkinson why she left MSM. Or read her book and see where the "news" is really distorted and you won't sound like a kool aid drinker
Tired of people parroting this "Talking Point" Ask Cheryl Atkinson why she left MSM. Or read her book and see where the "news" is really distorted and you won't sound like a kool aid drinker
You may want to keep your eyes on Traci and Sacar and their contributions this year and the following years.
Who is this Houser you speak of?
(also, lol at Harris)
I agree they were highly underrated players and that Wojo made the right call but it's not like they were somehow players Buzz couldn't touch buzz brought in his fair share of underrated guys too. (Buycks, DJO, Jimmy, Jae)
The Hillbilly is gone and he ain't coming back. So can we all agree to the following:I agree with point 1 and 2. I agree with the first part of 3, but I think we split the property evenly. I don't agree with point 4 other than we have potential. Wojo has a lot to prove. Also I always want our former coaches to do well, no matter how bad the divorce was. I believe there is still PR value in having alumni both player and coaches do well. So as distasteful as things were at the end, I still would like to see Va Tech do well under him.
1) We had a good time when things were good.
2) We're proud of Jae, JB, Wes, DJO and the rest of the guys who played for Marquette during the Hillbilly's time and have made it to the NBA. Impressive record.
3) We had a bad divorce with the Hillbilly and he took everything of value in the house.
4) We've moved on to a new "pretty girl" who brought in recruits this year the Hillbilly could only dream of. We've got a great team, a great coach and great potential.
Let's treat the Hillbilly like a bad ex-spouse. All we want to do is be National Champion with Coach Wojo and make the Hillbilly rot in his Hokie tomb down in West Nowhereville, Virginia.
So can we just ignore him, like the rest of college basketball is about to?
I agree they were highly underrated players and that Wojo made the right call but it's not like they were somehow players Buzz couldn't touch buzz brought in his fair share of underrated guys too. (Buycks, DJO, Jimmy, Jae)
Crean sucksYou have posted that hundreds of times. What did he do to you personally?
You have posted that hundreds of times. What did he do to you personally?
Crean sucks
There was no way we were going to get Henry or Diamond if the Hillbilly was head coach. Something happened when Wojo took over that impressed Henry and his family.
I agree a lot of guys were underrated and we did well with some really good ballplayers. But one of the most significant complaints about the Hillbilly was that he did not recruit and develop freshmen. Most of the high performers under the Hillbilly were Jucos. And if I had a dime for every time someone here was complaining about Jucos while the Hillbilly was here, I would be rich.
I used to say in here that the most important job the Hillbilly had was developing Vander. I was right and what irritated the Hillbilly to no end was Vander leaving after he got good.
Now, let's let the Hillbilly go. He is entombed down in West Bumfork, VA. I hope we never hear his name again. Ever.
There was no way we were going to get Henry or Diamond if the Hillbilly was head coach. Something happened when Wojo took over that impressed Henry and his family.
I agree a lot of guys were underrated and we did well with some really good ballplayers. But one of the most significant complaints about the Hillbilly was that he did not recruit and develop freshmen. Most of the high performers under the Hillbilly were Jucos. And if I had a dime for every time someone here was complaining about Jucos while the Hillbilly was here, I would be rich.
I used to say in here that the most important job the Hillbilly had was developing Vander. I was right and what irritated the Hillbilly to no end was Vander leaving after he got good.
Now, let's let the Hillbilly go. He is entombed down in West Bumfork, VA. I hope we never hear his name again. Ever.
You have posted that hundreds of times and I enjoy it every time.
This is why I have him 4never on "ignore". Ten thousand posts and not one of them worth reading.
And if I had a dime for every time someone here was complaining about Jucos while the Hillbilly was here, I would be rich.
You have posted that hundreds of times and I enjoy it every time.
1,841 (# of Chico's complaints about jucos under Buzz) + 12 (# of all other Scooper's combined complaints about jucos under Buzz) = 1,853. You'd have $183.50 - not quite rich, but a start.
Didn't Sam Hauser verbally commit to us? My bad on the spelling
Why are you lolling at Harris? Like it or not the guy was a high rated prospect that buzz had committed to us.
Are you referring to Jon Harris?
You think Buzz recruited him and he was a "high rated" prospect?
Seriously?
Are you referring to Jon Harris?
You think Buzz recruited him and he was a "high rated" prospect?
Seriously?
1,841 (# of Chico's complaints about jucos under Buzz) + 12 (# of all other Scooper's combined complaints about jucos under Buzz) = 1,853. You'd have $183.50 - not quite rich, but a start.
Any poem by Yeats, Beethoven's 5th symphony, 4ever's oration against TC - one never tires of the true classics.
1,841 (# of Chico's complaints about jucos under Buzz) + 12 (# of all other Scooper's combined complaints about jucos under Buzz) = 1,853. You'd have $183.50 - not quite rich, but a start.
Malek Harris, wasn't the kid top 100 when he committed and fell out when he tried to mix hair styling and pyrotechnics together?
And off of that original post I forgot to include Ahmed Hill
You have posted that hundreds of times and I enjoy it every time.Agreed.
I don't get into politics at all and I'll be the first to admit that. But I do know Fox 6 News is a complete joke.
A foundation for an investment! :-)
lol, look again
LOL. Doesn't fit your notion of things, so it is a complete joke. Whatever.
Trekyfoil
Why don't you ask Brad Forester, BMA725, Trekyfoil or some of the others....Ners, Equalizer, etc? Lots of people are missed around here, some really good posters and not so good ones.
Glad to see you are admitting that no fault was found by the police, which is the only thing I have stated about it. Did you ever thank me for the Big Ten 4 year scholarship requirements now...or the Big 12, or the ACC....I may have missed it. You often say how others here can't admit they are wrong....irony.
Numerous defamation lawsuits? Can you point me to the numerous ones? Would they be on the "numerousdefamationlawsuitsbyfox6news.com"?
Calling for a beheading? Nah. Racist remarks? Uhm, not in your lifetime. All Lives Matter, not just those of one part of the population. I can't imagine anything being less racial.
What else you got?
I have.....again in today's report...NO FAULT FOUND.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25286002/indiana-dismisses-sophomore-guard-emmitt-holt
@JeffRabjohns: Juwan Morgan, Hanner Perea also in the vehicle when Bryant, Holt circles for illegal possession, per law enforcement. http://t.co/2X3WE8E6hE
@JeffRabjohns: Juwan Morgan, Hanner Perea also in the vehicle when Bryant, Holt circles for illegal possession, per law enforcement. http://t.co/2X3WE8E6hE
Did the police report state as much?
Just trying to make sure we're calling spades spades here, and not ignoring the police report.
How 'bout that Luke Fischer, huh?!?!
More good games from Luke means more shots of the Doublemint twins. Last year, this would have been far preferable to watching the product on the court.+1
This is the worst thread.
Did the police report state as much?
Just trying to make sure we're calling spades spades here, and not ignoring the police report.
LOL. I did thank you for that information and admit I did not know that. So nothing ironic at all about it. LOL. Your reading comprehension is pretty piss poor so not surprising that you missed it. My God. LOL.
Might want to look up Fox 6 defamation lawsuits. LOL. Hell, in the court of law a judge even ruled that Fox 6 did not report news. So yes, I would say Fox 6 news is a JOKE. My God. LOL. But again, please keep hanging your hat on Fox 6 News. LOL.
How does #blacklivesmatter imply not all lives matter? LOL. Once again, your reading comprehension fails you miserably. Might want to look into taking some classes to save face. If I say "I love cheeseburgers" that must mean I hate steak in your language. LOL. My God.
And that Luke Fischer ... young man sure is a tall drink o' water, huh?If he developed a mid range jumper would you say it would help him a whole lot or not at all?
Yes, in fact it did.
It did not.
Please post the police report. I'm going off of multiple media reports. You are the only one saying it didn't happen that way. You may be right, but please provide the proof then.
Again, you may be right....could you post the police report please. Thanks
THANK YOU for finally admitting that you have not reviewed the police report. It does not say "no fault found."
You and I have been down this very path - where you claim I can't possibly be correct because tons of "traditional media" outlets are reporting something different.
You obviously didn't learn the first time. Continue to trust "the big names" and continue to be wrong if you wish.
Any predictions on Fischer stats for this year?
Any predictions on Fischer stats for this year?
I think we will play faster this year so all his numbers will go up. Probably around the same minutes (30/game), but more shooting, similar efficiency, and more rebounds. He may also get a better assist rate as he has better pass out options. Just taking a guess -- 13.5 ppg, 6 rpg, 1.5 assists per game, and 0 police reports.I see what you did there :D
I think we will play faster this year so all his numbers will go up. Probably around the same minutes (30/game), but more shooting, similar efficiency, and more rebounds. He may also get a better assist rate as he has better pass out options. Just taking a guess -- 13.5 ppg, 6 rpg, 1.5 assists per game, and 0 police reports.
We will be a bad rebounding them, if he averages on 6 rebounds a game. 14pts 9 rbs
Real question: What do folks think Luke's rebounding percentages can be this year?
With the broken wing a year ago, he was at 6.8% and 12.8%. In limited time at I4, he was 11.1% and 12.6%.
I'd *like* to see OR% at 9%+ and DR% approaching 17%+... a DR% of less than 15% would not be pleasing.
FT% is nearly irrelevant
Mostly agree, except for the last THree minutes.
FT% doesn't really determine if a team is good or not. I don't think anyone claimed that to be the case. The importance of it, however, is obvious. These are free points. Fischer shot only 58% last year. Get that to 70% and it's worth (rounding) an extra point per game for him and the team.
If he shoots the same number of free throws as he did last year and shoots 70% instead of 58% it would mean 10 more points in a season.
That's why JB is right.I've always looked at overall FT% as a leading indicator of a teams focus, conditioning, and, for lack of a better descriptor, discipline. Teams that can't hit free throws are either super talented and don't need that focus or teams i wouldn't trust in clutch situations. Does it singularly effect W's and L's? As was pointed out, no. As a non 'top 10' program would I feel more confident with a 10 pt higher FT% going into March? Absolutely - preparation and execution are the only things that can overcome superior talent.
Getting to the line often is important for several reason and situational FT shooting is important (last two minutes of the game).
Overall, though, it's way down on the list.
I've always looked at overall FT% as a leading indicator of a teams focus, conditioning, and, for lack of a better descriptor, discipline. Teams that can't hit free throws are either super talented and don't need that focus or teams i wouldn't trust in clutch situations. Does it singularly effect W's and L's? As was pointed out, no. As a non 'top 10' program would I feel more confident with a 10 pt higher FT% going into March? Absolutely - preparation and execution are the only things that can overcome superior talent.
Clearly not the only/primary indicator. But isn't it a pretty good leading indicator?
No. It's not a good indicator and your thoughts are complete off base and unsupported by facts.totally agree on my thoughts being unsupported by facts, I'm far from a CBB statistician or insider.
Ask Izzo. #328 in the nation. Final Four.
Ask Steve Fischer.
70% would not be worth an extra point per game rounding to the nearest point.
Nonetheless, "these are free points" is a bizarre thing to say. If they were free points, they would be granted - end of story.
They're not free points.
To suggest so is wrong and outlandish.
My fault, thanks for the correction. I ran it at 70% and then at the FT% he shot at IU, which was 78%. It was the 78% then we get to an extra point per game. At 70% it's roughly a half point.
Would you be more acceptable to Free Points Opportunity? I was raised by coaches that called them free points...there to be taken if you master an easy shot. That's my bias, but I've heard plenty of coaches call them "free points". I wouldn't call it wrong, or outlandish.
They aren't "free points" and I have never heard a coach say that. They are "free throws" or more accurately "free shots."
No. It's not a good indicator and your thoughts are complete off base and unsupported by facts.
Ask Izzo. #328 in the nation. Final Four.
Ask Steve Fischer.
TWhether it is a good indicator or not, I have no doubt we can all find stats that "prove" or "disprove" their importance.
I think it is safe to assume that a team that shot 58% from the line missed a number of front ends of one and ones. Therefore, the 19 free throw attempts might go to 20+ free throw attemtps, which would result in a bigger point pick up. In a close game, where the other team is fouling you to get back in the game it becomes very important to hit the front end of a one and ones.
I think it is safe to assume that a team that shot 58% from the line missed a number of front ends of one and ones. Therefore, the 19 free throw attempts might go to 20+ free throw attemtps, which would result in a bigger point pick up. In a close game, where the other team is fouling you to get back in the game it becomes very important to hit the front end of a one and ones.
Valid point. There are a total of 6 one and one opportunities in a game for a team (fouls 7, 8, and 9), so a team shooting 58% you would expect to miss 2 per game (assuming no shooting fouls). So the team would be missing an additional 2 free throws per game.I thought about that, but free throw shooting only matters in close games. That is when a team that is behind will foul you three straight times to get the ball back. Miss the front end of all three one & one's in and you come away empty. The possibilities are 0-3, 1-4, 2-4, 3-5, 4-5, 5-6 and 6-6, so in a close game you are looking at a range of 0 to 6 points on the second half 1-1 opportunities. Assuming all are shooting fouls the possibilities are 0-6, 1-6, 2-6, 3-6, 4-6, 5-6, which is still a range of 6 points. Then you have to account for who is fouled. A 70% free throw shooting team is going to have players who shoot 65% and 75%. a team intentionally fouling is going to target the 65% free throw shooter. Besides that it seems to me that free throw shooting is contagious. The first free throw shooter missing two free throws seems to make it more likely that the next shooter will also miss and the first free throw shooter making both free throws seems to make it more likely the next will make both. It may not be reality, but how else do you explain the same team making 25-26 one night and them the next game making 11-26. I would guess that in MU's 31 games this year that 20 of the games the score differential will be big enough that the free throw shooting will not matter. Assuming that is correct there are 11 games that outcome will depend on free throw shooting. Remember it is how both teams shoot that matters.
My coaches called them free points, but I understand the quibble I suppose
Valid point. There are a total of 6 one and one opportunities in a game for a team (fouls 7, 8, and 9), so a team shooting 58% you would expect to miss 2 per game (assuming no shooting fouls). So the team would be missing an additional 2 free throws per game.
The flip side of that, Wisconsin in the championship and a top 10 FT shooting team. Whether it is a good indicator or not, I have no doubt we can all find stats that "prove" or "disprove" their importance. At the end of the day, the task at hand is to score more than the opponent. Shooting a high FT% will equate to more points and more point opportunities (making the bonuses).
There are certainly more important stats, but cashing in on free point opportunities is one that many (not all) good teams take advantage of.
I would expect us to play at a more rapid pace this year as we have more horses. Couple that with Luke being healthy there is a good chance he will get to the line more often, so that the importance of FT% will ramp out.Wrong. This team in how they want to play and how teams will defend them will get to the line as much or more as an MU team in recent memory.
I get JB's point that even if you factor in all of that the difference between 70% and 58% isn't going to be more than a point a game and a lot of things are more likely to improve our W/L % than that. I also that the biggest thing Luke can do to help us win is to up that defensive rebounding percentage. Even from a psychological/coaching standpoint, giving up second chance points are more painful than leaving points at the FT line, IMO.
Looking at last year's Big East regular season game by game stats. In the fourteen losses there were five games that we missed more free throws than the losing margin. Of course game management would of changed as the score changed, but there was the potential for 5 more wins based on free throw shooting alone. This does not include the OT loss to Georgetown where we lost by 10, but only missed 6 free throws. Obviously, making one more free throw in regulation could of meant a win there. That is 6 potential wins. I think it is reasonable to assume that we could of won three of those (especially the two overtime games), if we were not a mediocre free throw shooting team last year.
The difference between 70% and 58% is more than 1pt man! Are you kidding me?
But how many free throws did the opposing team miss in those games? It goes both ways.In our first loss to Georgetown 59-66 that is not included in those six losses we made 8-12, but Georgetown made 23-28. I am assuming at the end of the game we were fouling Georgetown and by the stats they were making those critical free throws.
In our first loss to Georgetown 59-66 that is not included in those six losses we made 8-12, but Georgetown made 23-28. I am assuming at the end of the game we were fouling Georgetown and by the stats they were making those critical free throws.
During the Big East regular season we made 196 free throws and our opponents made 244 for a deficit of 48 points or 2.67 points per game. One of Buzz's favorite statistics was making more free throws than the other team attempted. Last year's Big East season we made more than the other team attempted twice and went 1-1 in those games. There were two games where we made as many free throws as the other team attempted and we won both of those games. In four games we made as many or more as the opponents attempts and we went 3-1. We went 1-13 in games we made less than the opponents attempted.
But you specifically said that we had X amount of games where we missed more free throws than we lost by, so we would've had a chance to win the games had we made all our free throws. Sure, but I'm guessing our opponent also missed some free throws in those games, so it goes both ways.The discussion is about the effect of our free throw shooting improving. On the flip side our opponents free throw shooting could decline. I would argue the most important free throw stat is free throws attempted, because the more free throws you shoot the more likely the other team has foul troubles.
In the Georgetown game you reference as not counting because we went to OT, we missed 4 FTs and they missed 5, so in reality, instead of us winning in regulation had we just made our free throws, they would've won had neither team missed any free throws.
In just about every single digit loss in college basketball most teams will be able to say, "If we were perfect from the line we make up the difference and might win that game." Sure. But the other team wasn't perfect from the line either. These things even out.
But you specifically said that we had X amount of games where we missed more free throws than we lost by, so we would've had a chance to win the games had we made all our free throws. Sure, but I'm guessing our opponent also missed some free throws in those games, so it goes both ways.
In the Georgetown game you reference as not counting because we went to OT, we missed 4 FTs and they missed 5, so in reality, instead of us winning in regulation had we just made our free throws, they would've won had neither team missed any free throws.
In just about every single digit loss in college basketball most teams will be able to say, "If we were perfect from the line we make up the difference and might win that game." Sure. But the other team wasn't perfect from the line either. These things even out.
The discussion is about the effect of our free throw shooting improving. On the flip side our opponents free throw shooting could decline. I would argue the most important free throw stat is free throws attempted, because the more free throws you shoot the more likely the other team has foul troubles.
There are games where we have shot extremely well from the line and lost and there are games that we have shot very bad from the line and won. However, a team that shoots 73% from the line vs. a team that shoots 67% has a better chance of winning. The overall point is that making free throws is very important in a close game and to argue otherwise does not make sense.
Not only that, but it is an unrealistic expectation for teams to make *every* free throw.
Saying "free throws are important," and then extrapolating how many additional games you won if they would have been 100% is pretty useless. Why not say "make every FG," or "grab every rebound?" If you did either of those, you would be pretty much guaranteed to win.
I think there is this thought that free throws should be easy. No one is playing defense right? But they aren't necessarily so - that is why FT% hasn't changed. This is why the "free points" adage is dumb.
There are games where we have shot extremely well from the line and lost and there are games that we have shot very bad from the line and won. However, a team that shoots 73% from the line vs. a team that shoots 67% has a better chance of winning. The overall point is that making free throws is very important in a close game and to argue otherwise does not make sense.
The other thing I looked at as long as I was looking at the statistics to back up my impression that last year's team improved at a slower rate compared to the other Big East teams was the net point differential. I realize that Carlino's concussion should of had an effect on these numbers. I divided the season in half by taking the score differential the first time we played a team and then the second time we played the same team. The first nine our total differential was a -39 points and the second time our total differential was a -83 points. Basically we were 44 pints worse the second time around. However, if you remove DePaul and Seton Hall from these figures, because those two teams simply tanked in the second half the differentials go from a -26 to -96. This trend I am expecting to change this year with the young talent we have.I'm really not sure this should be looked into too much. One thing you'd have to factor in is home/away games. The second item, this was Wojo's first year and Luke came on just before the conference season. I would expect most teams would be able to adjust more to us as the season progressed as they have tape on Wojo's offense/defense as well as the new center. As opposed to scouting from our end, the tape wouldn't have changed much from previous years
There are games where we have shot extremely well from the line and lost and there are games that we have shot very bad from the line and won. However, a team that shoots 73% from the line vs. a team that shoots 67% has a better chance of winning. The overall point is that making free throws is very important in a close game and to argue otherwise does not make sense.
Yes, a team that shoots 73% has a better chance at winning a game than a team that shoots 67%. But by how much?
5 FTs - .3 points difference
10 FTs - .6 points difference
15 FTs - .9 points difference
20 FTs - 1.2 points difference
25 FTs - 1.5 points difference
30 FTs - 1.8 points difference
False. Missed FT's can be rebounded by the shooting team.
Some of the comments in this thread are so stupid I can barely keep the puke from flying. C'mon now Market
I'm really not sure this should be looked into too much. One thing you'd have to factor in is home/away games. The second item, this was Wojo's first year and Luke came on just before the conference season. I would expect most teams would be able to adjust more to us as the season progressed as they have tape on Wojo's offense/defense as well as the new center. As opposed to scouting from our end, the tape wouldn't have changed much from previous yearsI think you are saying the other teams were more successful adjusting than MU was. Therefore they improved more than MU. As far as home and away it balances out, since we played each team home and away. I see two things that were not coaching related that could account for the worse numbers the second time around. Carlino's concussion and I think as the season wore on Fisher's shoulder became more of an issue. Yes, teams had time to adjust to him, but I think it was more related to his shoulder getting worse.
But how many free throws did the opposing team miss in those games? It goes both ways.
False. Missed FT's can be rebounded by the shooting team.I think we should just track this season and see how many games are decided by free throws one way or another.
Some of the comments in this thread are so stupid I can barely keep the puke from flying. C'mon now Market
I think we should just track this season and see how many games are decided by free throws one way or another.
I think we should just track this season and see how many games are decided by free throws one way or another.
There have been plenty of games throughout the years that free throws become very important in the last minute.
False. Missed FT's can be rebounded by the shooting team.
Some of the comments in this thread are so stupid I can barely keep the puke from flying. C'mon now Market
There have been plenty of games throughout the years that free throws become very important in the last minute.
But if one team misses last minute FTs, blows a lead, and loses a game, that doesn't mean that game was "decided by free throws." What if that team blew an easy lay-up at the three minute mark? Or didn't grab a key rebound? What if they were 14/15 from the line until the last minute?
Games are won and lost due to a variety of factors over the course of 40 minutes. You can't isolate the last minute and say what happened then was the most important part of the game.
SOME missed FT's can be rebounded by the shooting team.
SOME missed FT's can be rebounded by the shooting team.
ALL missed FT's can be rebounded by the shooting team. Statistically they all won't be, but they all could be.
If a player is shooting two free throws and the first one is missed, nothing happens. Only the second free throw miss can be rebounded.
:)
But if one team misses last minute FTs, blows a lead, and loses a game, that doesn't mean that game was "decided by free throws." What if that team blew an easy lay-up at the three minute mark? Or didn't grab a key rebound? What if they were 14/15 from the line until the last minute?Here is an example what you are referring to. I was at this game in 1969 at the old UW Fieldhouse. MU is down one with little time remaining and Ric Cobb a 50% free throw shooter is fouled. Cobb makes the first and misses the second and the game goes into overtime. He misses both we lose in regulation and if he makes both we win in regulation. We lost in overtime when McGuire decides it is better for his senior star George Thompson to bring up the ball instead of his sophomore point guard Dean Meminger. Although Meminger was probably the best ball handler ever to attend MU, McGuire thought it was too much pressure for a sophomore. Thompson got the ball stolen and Rick Mount then hit the jump shot to win the game to go to final four. Did we lose because Cobb missed a free throw or because Mount hit the game winner. My answer is we lost because McGuire made a stupid decision at a crucial time. Of course he would not of made that decision, if Cobb made both free throws.
Games are won and lost due to a variety of factors over the course of 40 minutes. You can't isolate the last minute and say what happened then was the most important part of the game.
Here is an example what you are referring to. I was at this game in 1969 at the old UW Fieldhouse. MU is down one with little time remaining and Ric Cobb a 50% free throw shooter is fouled. Cobb makes the first and misses the second and the game goes into overtime. He misses both we lose in regulation and if he makes both we win in regulation. We lost in overtime when McGuire decides it is better for his senior star George Thompson to bring up the ball instead of his sophomore point guard Dean Meminger. Although Meminger was probably the best ball handler ever to attend MU, McGuire thought it was too much pressure for a sophomore. Thompson got the ball stolen and Rick Mount then hit the jump shot to win the game to go to final four. Did we lose because Cobb missed a free throw or because Mount hit the game winner. My answer is we lost because McGuire made a stupid decision at a crucial time. Of course he would not of made that decision, if Cobb made both free throws.
You're all wrong. "Nothing happens" isn't true - in fact, a rebound is credited (to the shooting team).
Dead-ball rebound.
Please see A.R. 2. of the Statistucians' Manual.
FT%/FTR are about 5% important. It matters in close games when the other 95% are basically equal between teams.
Back to Luke Fischer, here's a question. Last year, he was slightly above average offensively (ORtg of 105) and slightly below average as an on-court contributor (19%). Would you rather see him develop this year as an improved offensive player with less on-court contributions (Ortg of 115, usage of 19%), or would you rather see him stay as a slightly above average player with increased on-court contribution (Ortg of 105, usage of 23-25%)?
More efficient, or a bigger role? You can only pick one.
The difference between 70% and 58% is more than 1pt man! Are you kidding me?
It is as much as a 5-9 pts difference. If you are not hitting those FT's it get mental and effects your aggressively overall in guys not wanting to go to the line.
We don't need him to have higher usage. We have more options this season. Definitely would rather see his efficiency improve
Playing devil's advocate here, but 55% of the possessions from last year either graduated or left.
I agree and that's why I've been down on this team all summer. Maybe it was the Italy trip, maybe it's fall blue and gold glasses but I'm becoming more optimistic. I feel like we have upgrades at most positions...at least on the offensive side.
PG: Carter > Derrick
SG: SO Duane > FR Duane
SF: SO Sandy < Carlino
PF: Henry > Juan
C: JR Luke > SO Luke
6th Man: JR JJJ > SO JJJ
Defensively, I think this team is slightly worse. But I think it will be much better offensively abd overall. Ergo, I want more offensive efficiency rather than usage from Luke
Playing devil's advocate here, but 55% of the possessions from last year either graduated or left.
You're all wrong. "Nothing happens" isn't true - in fact, a rebound is credited (to the shooting team).
Dead-ball rebound.
Please see A.R. 2. of the Statistucians' Manual.
OK, fair enough. I was going for team or individual rebounds since it is a dead ball. I have no idea why the rule book counts that particular play as a dead ball rebound since the team doesn't gain possession of it and the opposing team still has the ball (for the 2nd or 3rd free throw), but that is the rule.
Thank you for the clarification.
I would note, dead ball rebounds are not counted by the NCAA in statistical rankings as part of the team rrebounding number. (Section 3, Article 1, subsection d)
FT%/FTR are about 5% important. It matters in close games when the other 95% are basically equal between teams.
Back to Luke Fischer, here's a question. Last year, he was slightly above average offensively (ORtg of 105) and slightly below average as an on-court contributor (19%). Would you rather see him develop this year as an improved offensive player with less on-court contributions (Ortg of 115, usage of 19%), or would you rather see him stay as a slightly above average player with increased on-court contribution (Ortg of 105, usage of 23-25%)?
More efficient, or a bigger role? You can only pick one.
Real question: What do folks think Luke's rebounding percentages can be this year?
With the broken wing a year ago, he was at 6.8% and 12.8%. In limited time at I4, he was 11.1% and 12.6%.
I'd *like* to see OR% at 9%+ and DR% approaching 17%+... a DR% of less than 15% would not be pleasing.
FT%/FTR are about 5% important. It matters in close games when the other 95% are basically equal between teams.
Back to Luke Fischer, here's a question. Last year, he was slightly above average offensively (ORtg of 105) and slightly below average as an on-court contributor (19%). Would you rather see him develop this year as an improved offensive player with less on-court contributions (Ortg of 115, usage of 19%), or would you rather see him stay as a slightly above average player with increased on-court contribution (Ortg of 105, usage of 23-25%)?
More efficient, or a bigger role? You can only pick one.
FT%/FTR are about 5% important. It matters in close games when the other 95% are basically equal between teams.
Back to Luke Fischer, here's a question. Last year, he was slightly above average offensively (ORtg of 105) and slightly below average as an on-court contributor (19%). Would you rather see him develop this year as an improved offensive player with less on-court contributions (Ortg of 115, usage of 19%), or would you rather see him stay as a slightly above average player with increased on-court contribution (Ortg of 105, usage of 23-25%)?
More efficient, or a bigger role? You can only pick one.
^^^^^
"I was wrong" in chicos land
If we're going to call out dumb comments, how did this little gem not get any response? 9 points difference? NINE points? Are you on crack? In order to have a NINE point disparity based on a 12% point difference in free throw percentage in a single game, the team would have to shoot 75 free throws in that game. That's......SEVENTY-FIVE FREE THROWS IN ONE GAME!!!
So yeah...before you make any more stupid statements, how about checking your math at the door? Seriously...75 FTAs? For the record, the most COMBINED free throws by both teams in a single game is 105. That was between Morehead State and Iowa in 1953.
Nine point swing...dude, please. The highest FTA total we had in a game last year was 34 against Georgia Tech. A 12% conversion difference in that game would have amounted to 4 points. So even in our maximum FTA game last year, we didn't reach the 5 point minimum difference you claim, nor come remotely close to the 9 point maximum difference you list.
On an average night, 12% points will make a difference of 0-4 points. Rarely will it ever matter more than that, and never under any circumstance will it 12% points ever amount to 9 points on the scoreboard. Never.
Have you seen this guy/girl's prior posts? Follows a similar pattern of logic. Been on my ignore list for a while as I just couldnt deal with it anymore