MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: muwarrior69 on July 22, 2015, 11:36:13 AM
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http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/108092/early-look-sizing-up-the-big-east
Not much new, but thought I post anyway.
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Marquette tied DePaul for ninth place in the league last season, so of course the only way to go is up. The Golden Eagles probably won’t contend for the Big East crown this season, but coach Steve Wojciechowski has laid the foundation for what should be a much-improved team.
They can expect a big boost from Henry Ellenson, a 6-foot-10 power forward from Rice Lake, Wisconsin, who is the No. 5-ranked player in the ESPN 100. Ellenson chose Marquette despite getting offers from Kentucky and Michigan State.
Clearly, ESPN didn't view our out of conference schedule this year.
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I cannot decide who was more disrespected. Creighton who actually tied MU for 9th and was not mentioned at all or DePaul who was incorrectly listed as tied with us for last place. I guess everyone is so use to DePaul finishing last that they assumed DePaul tied for last place.
After reading how little St. John's has coming back we should beat them twice this year.
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Hilarious at the bottom it says looking ahead to big east contenders and has SJU listed.
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I thought it was a reasonable well thought our article. Positive on the league and many of the programs.
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Ok, it's nice to be underrated!
I agree there are many unknowns about Marquette. Our season could either be one that dreams are made of (if everyone gels and integrates "just right") or a nightmare on Wisconsin Avenue (if the freshmen don't gel, if Luke's shoulder isn't what we think it will be, if Henry has growing pains and if our guards spent the summer at the Hillbilly School of Outside Shooting).
That said, I'm an optimist. I think Wojo learned a lot about himself last year. Our incomers are VERY, VERY Good and there's just enough there to make life miserable for whomever plays us.
The most significant problem I think we're going to have next year is.... road games. We are taking a big freshman class and putting on the road before 10,000 to 20,000 hostile fans even as many of them adapt to college life. These kids are traveling like they never did before and that takes time to get used to.
My suspicion is there will be a couple of ugly early season road losses, but by February... LOOK OUT!
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Ok, it's nice to be underrated!
I agree there are many unknowns about Marquette. Our season could either be one that dreams are made of (if everyone gels and integrates "just right") or a nightmare on Wisconsin Avenue (if the freshmen don't gel, if Luke's shoulder isn't what we think it will be, if Henry has growing pains and if our guards spent the summer at the Hillbilly School of Outside Shooting).
That said, I'm an optimist. I think Wojo learned a lot about himself last year. Our incomers are VERY, VERY Good and there's just enough there to make life miserable for whomever plays us.
The most significant problem I think we're going to have next year is.... road games. We are taking a big freshman class and putting on the road before 10,000 to 20,000 hostile fans even as many of them adapt to college life. These kids are traveling like they never did before and that takes time to get used to.
My suspicion is there will be a couple of ugly early season road losses, but by February... LOOK OUT!
I'm actually more worried about Wojo than I am about the players. I think the players have a lot of talent and are going to be fine. I just hope that the problem with last years team was a relative lack of talent and not an inability of our coach to make adjustments.
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Couldn't agree more, dgies. I am of the belief that Marquette will be a load come tourny time. The question is, which tourny? If I was a betting man, I'd put it on the NCAA tourny. But that's me.
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I'm actually more worried about Wojo than I am about the players. I think the players have a lot of talent and are going to be fine. I just hope that the problem with last years team was a relative lack of talent and not an inability of our coach to make adjustments.
Tend to agree with the assessment, Sultan. Wojo has definitely proved that he can recruit, but the jury is still out on his X and O abilities. He gets a pass for last year, because the talent was limited (thank you Phony Cowboy), but there needs to be substantial improvement this year. With the cupcake schedule, and recruits, we should see at least about 18 wins this year, with the team improving as the year goes on.
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I'm actually more worried about Wojo than I am about the players. I think the players have a lot of talent and are going to be fine. I just hope that the problem with last years team was a relative lack of talent and not an inability of our coach to make adjustments.
Which way are you leaning, or are you straight up and down?
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I think Wojo is fine. I think if he does well, the players are going to fall in and the season will be successful with either a low NCAA bid in about the 8-10 seed range or an NIT bid.
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I think Wojo is fine. I think if he does well, the players are going to fall in and the season will be successful with either a low NCAA bid in about the 8-10 seed range or an NIT bid.
Thanks for your reply. I’m having trouble making any kind of prediction for 15-16. I feel good about us, I think incoming and returning players will blend well and we will be a solid team. But I have no ideas of our opponents, maybe read/heard of some heralded players, but only bits and pieces of their team Maybe there’s another dangerous New Jersey Institute lurking in the Buy games.
I’m just happy how our team looks and thinking the future is bright. But if Gun to Head I’m Guessing 19-20 wins
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I am expecting us to run about 17-14 this season. I think the entire season depends on whether Duane can be a much more consistent scorer for us. If he's putting up 15+ ppg and a true No. 1 option, we could be a real bear for the favorites in the BEast. Add in 12 from Henry, 10 from Luke, and 20 combined from JJJ, Cheatham, and Cohen and you're looking at a pretty dangerous offense.
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17-14 seems about right. This coming season is the building block for 16-17 when havoc shall be wreaked and revenge taken. To believe that this team is going to be a tourney contender, you have to anticipate the freshman class being Kentucky-esque in their impact. Not impossible, but I certainly wouldn't make any large wagers in that direction.
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I am expecting us to run about 17-14 this season. I think the entire season depends on whether Duane can be a much more consistent scorer for us. If he's putting up 15+ ppg and a true No. 1 option, we could be a real bear for the favorites in the BEast. Add in 12 from Henry, 10 from Luke, and 20 combined from JJJ, Cheatham, and Cohen and you're looking at a pretty dangerous offense.
Luke was 11ppg last year and you think 10 from him? But anyways 15, 12 and 12 is about what I'm hoping for. For me it comes down to JJJ or Sandy being legit.
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17-14 seems about right. This coming season is the building block for 16-17 when havoc shall be wreaked and revenge taken. To believe that this team is going to be a tourney contender, you have to anticipate the freshman class being Kentucky-esque in their impact. Not impossible, but I certainly wouldn't make any large wagers in that direction.
I don't think the freshman need to be good enough to go 39-0 to start the season in order for them to help us make the NCAA Tournament.
I expect 20 wins minimum this year, and am hopeful for 23.
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For me it comes down to JJJ or Sandy being legit.
God help us...
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I'm actually more worried about Wojo than I am about the players. I think the players have a lot of talent and are going to be fine. I just hope that the problem with last years team was a relative lack of talent and not an inability of our coach to make adjustments.
Given his defensive tinkering, I don't think we have to worry about unwillingness to make adjustments. More a matter of speed to get there when needed.
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God help us...
Willing to accept cheatham or Wally as legit options as well... Essentially God help us
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A team that gels and learns to play together will be better than its strength by position. Without studying the other Big East teams this is my gut reaction were we are on a position basis.
C Fischer/Heldt - I have to believe we are in the top 3. That assumes Fischer's shoulder remains healthy. I expect Heldt to be a very good backup.
PF Ellenson/? I would say we are about 5th in Big East. We will be much higher, if Ellenson can play defense without fouling trouble. Many freshmen have trouble with this and because of Ellenson's offensive ability the other teams may concentrate on getting him in foul trouble. Ranking also hurt by no clear cut backup and no experience at position.
SF starter unknown JJJ, Cohen, Wally & Anim. I would say we are in the bottom three. Lots of depth and talent with little experience and no known defensive stopper. Cheatnam will need to concentrate on point guard position.
SG Wilson/ one of small forward candidates will be the back up. I would rank us in top 3. Duane, barring injury will have a great year.
PG Taylor/Cheatnam Dead last Two freshmen point guards with the back up not playing point in high school.
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A team that gels and learns to play together will be better than its strength by position. Without studying the other Big East teams this is my gut reaction were we are on a position basis.
C Fischer/Heldt - I have to believe we are in the top 3. That assumes Fischer's shoulder remains healthy. I expect Heldt to be a very good backup.
PF Ellenson/? I would say we are about 5th in Big East. We will be much higher, if Ellenson can play defense without fouling trouble. Many freshmen have trouble with this and because of Ellenson's offensive ability the other teams may concentrate on getting him in foul trouble. Ranking also hurt by no clear cut backup and no experience at position.
SF starter unknown JJJ, Cohen, Wally & Anim. I would say we are in the bottom three. Lots of depth and talent with little experience and no known defensive stopper. Cheatnam will need to concentrate on point guard position.
SG Wilson/ one of small forward candidates will be the back up. I would rank us in top 3. Duane, barring injury will have a great year.
PG Taylor/Cheatnam Dead last Two freshmen point guards with the back up not playing point in high school.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by Carter and I think you'll see Duane play some 1 (not as his primary position, but probably more than Cheatham will). It certainly doesn't put us as the best in the BE, or even in the top 1/2 necessarily, but we won't have the worst point guards in the league.
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Luke was 11ppg last year and you think 10 from him? But anyways 15, 12 and 12 is about what I'm hoping for. For me it comes down to JJJ or Sandy being legit.
What did Luke average in the BEast last season? 8 or so. Plus, adding Henry will cut in to Luke's touches on the block a bit. Either way 10-12 is a reasonable expectation.
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What did Luke average in the BEast last season? 8 or so. Plus, adding Henry will cut in to Luke's touches on the block a bit. Either way 10-12 is a reasonable expectation.
Assuming his shoulder will not limit him anymore he should score more than last year. I think 12 is a reasonable expectation.
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I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by Carter and I think you'll see Duane play some 1 (not as his primary position, but probably more than Cheatham will). It certainly doesn't put us as the best in the BE, or even in the top 1/2 necessarily, but we won't have the worst point guards in the league.
Is there another Big East team that is going to be starting a freshmen point guard with no point guard back up? We have had the worst point guard in the Big East the last two years and I do not see that changing this year. Taylor could be 50% better than Derrick and we still most likely will have the worst point guard situation in the Big East with no experience and no true back up.
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What did Luke average in the BEast last season? 8 or so. Plus, adding Henry will cut in to Luke's touches on the block a bit. Either way 10-12 is a reasonable expectation.
In just Big East he averaged 10.15 I would expect having a twin towers thing (think Chicago Bulls with Gasol and Noah or OKC when they had Perkins and Durant) will make both their averages be pretty decent I expect 11 or 12 each. Unlike Hutchwasclutch who expects Henry to be Jahlil okafor
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Is there another Big East team that is going to be starting a freshmen point guard with no point guard back up? We have had the worst point guard in the Big East the last two years and I do not see that changing this year. Taylor could be 50% better than Derrick and we still most likely will have the worst point guard situation in the Big East with no experience and no true back up.
His name is Traci Carter. Not sure where you're getting Taylor from. He is going to be a stud.
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Taylor's gone to Toledo - he wouldn't have been a very good PG anyway.
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His name is Traci Carter. Not sure where you're getting Taylor from. He is going to be a stud.
Brain fart. I know his name, but when I am posting at work I do not take time to review what I typed. It always amazing me what I typed compared to what I thought I typed.
I have no doubt that Traci will be a stud as a senior, but he has a lot to learn before then. You are expecting a lot out of a freshmen at the toughest & most important position to play.
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PG Taylor/Cheatnam Dead last Two freshmen point guards with the back up not playing point in high school.
Am I translating this correctly, because they are Freshmen with no experience they are defaulted to the bottom of starting PG’s in the big East?
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Is there another Big East team that is going to be starting a freshmen point guard with no point guard back up? We have had the worst point guard in the Big East the last two years and I do not see that changing this year. Taylor could be 50% better than Derrick and we still most likely will have the worst point guard situation in the Big East with no experience and no true back up.
Why are we fitting these guys for a noose before they ever set foot on the court?
Before we build a gallows, let's make sure they committed the crime! In other words, give 'em a chance before we hang 'em for being bad!
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Why are we fitting these guys for a noose before they ever set foot on the court?
Before we build a gallows, let's make sure they committed the crime! In other words, give 'em a chance before we hang 'em for being bad!
I agree, but we shouldn't build them a pedestal to fall off either.
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When we get to the Big East I see our starting lineup as Henry, Luke, JJJ, Sandy and Duane. Wally sixth man off the bench for instant energy. Then the rest of the freshman with limited minutes earning more as they prove themselves.
I think Duane will do a very good job running the offense. So I am not concerned about the point guard situation provided he stays healthy.
I think the loss of STjr will hurt us a lot. He seemed to have some pep at the end of the year and I think he was poised for a solid senior year.
Gabe Levin would have been a major contributor if he had stayed.
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When we get to the Big East I see our starting lineup as Henry, Luke, JJJ, Sandy and Duane. Wally sixth man off the bench for instant energy. Then the rest of the freshman with limited minutes earning more as they prove themselves.
I think Duane will do a very good job running the offense. So I am not concerned about the point guard situation provided he stays healthy.
I think the loss of STjr will hurt us a lot. He seemed to have some pep at the end of the year and I think he was poised for a solid senior year.
Gabe Levin would have been a major contributor if he had stayed.
I don't think you will see Duane playing a whole lot of point guard. No more than 12 minutes per game, in my estimation. Wojo has said numerous times he likes Duane off the ball if possible.
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I don't think you will see Duane playing a whole lot of point guard. No more than 12 minutes per game, in my estimation. Wojo has said numerous times he likes Duane off the ball if possible.
Who do you see playing the position?
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Who do you see playing the position?
A lot of Traci Carter, a little Haniif Cheatham.
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Am I translating this correctly, because they are Freshmen with no experience they are defaulted to the bottom of starting PG’s in the big East?
Experience is very important and so is talent.
Returning starters.
Butler Alex Barlow
DePaul Billy Garrett Jr.
Providence Kris Dunn
Seton Hall Isaiah Whitehead
Villanova Ryan Arcidiacono
Possibly 5 teams including MU, that will have to replace their starting point guard, At least three of them had a freshman point guard on last year's team that will probably step and start this year.
Remember I am not just picking on Traci. I am pointing out that Haanif Cheatnam is his predicted backup did not even play point in high school. Assuming Traci plays 30 minutes a game that means Cheatnam gets 10 or maybe you pull Wilson from the two, but that weakens the two spot. MU has no experience at point guard and that is what makes them last in my mind. There are exceptions, but history shows that freshmen often do not have a big impact their freshmen year in the Big East.
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Experience is very important and so is talent.
Returning starters.
Butler Alex Barlow
DePaul Billy Garrett Jr.
Providence Kris Dunn
Seton Hall Isaiah Whitehead
Villanova Ryan Arcidiacono
Possibly 5 teams including MU, that will have to replace their starting point guard, At least three of them had a freshman point guard on last year's team that will probably step and start this year.
Remember I am not just picking on Traci. I am pointing out that Haanif Cheatnam is his predicted backup did not even play point in high school. Assuming Traci plays 30 minutes a game that means Cheatnam gets 10 or maybe you pull Wilson from the two, but that weakens the two spot. MU has no experience at point guard and that is what makes them last in my mind. There are exceptions, but history shows that freshmen often do not have a big impact their freshmen year in the Big East.
Thanks for your response. Hope that sometime during the season you have a chance to reevaluate how they preform.
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Experience is very important and so is talent.
Returning starters.
Butler Alex Barlow
DePaul Billy Garrett Jr.
Providence Kris Dunn
Seton Hall Isaiah Whitehead
Villanova Ryan Arcidiacono
Possibly 5 teams including MU, that will have to replace their starting point guard, At least three of them had a freshman point guard on last year's team that will probably step and start this year.
Remember I am not just picking on Traci. I am pointing out that Haanif Cheatnam is his predicted backup did not even play point in high school. Assuming Traci plays 30 minutes a game that means Cheatnam gets 10 or maybe you pull Wilson from the two, but that weakens the two spot. MU has no experience at point guard and that is what makes them last in my mind. There are exceptions, but history shows that freshmen often do not have a big impact their freshmen year in the Big East.
Whitehead's main accomplishment as a college player is torpedoing the Hall program to the point where their starting PG transferred mid-season and their best player transferred after the season. He also shot 36% and turned it over nearly four times a game. Think you're mixing up a player who is returning and a returning player being good.
Also, Alex Barlow is no longer a college player. Eligibility exhausted.
So, in reality, the Big East PG pool is one stud; one go getter on the best team; and a good player on a terrible squad. Not exactly a murderers row of talent.
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add DSR as a returning Stud PG even though he'll likely be back to more off the ball with Tre Campbell getting more run at PG I expect DSR to still play a lot of the 1 like he did last year.
Dunn
DSR
Arcidiacino
Garett Jr
Whitehead
Tyler Lewis at Butler (All American in High School played a year at NC St)
Mo Watson at Creighton (transfer from Boston U)
are all proven and will likely be better than whomever plays PG for Marquette.
Xavier has a lot of options, but none proven so can't say for sure on them and No clue who's playing Point Guard for St. John's but I'd err on the side of Marquette's options being better.
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No clue who's playing Point Guard for St. John's but I'd err on the side of Marquette's options being better.
Fixed that for you.