MUScoop

MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on May 16, 2015, 12:38:06 AM

Title: Google Self-driving car
Post by: jesmu84 on May 16, 2015, 12:38:06 AM
This is so awesome. I really am looking forward to a world where this is the norm. Plus the HUGE effect it will have on literally every business. Heck, you think if a computer was programmed to run that Amtrak train in Philly, it would have been doing 100mph where it shouldn't have been?

https://www.youtube.com/v/uCezICQNgJU
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: HouWarrior on May 16, 2015, 11:28:56 AM
I hope this takes over in NASCAR, as I prefer to root for the brand names on the cars. My corporate overlords are much more important to me than some human driver behind the wheel.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 16, 2015, 09:04:03 PM
This is so awesome. I really am looking forward to a world where this is the norm. Plus the HUGE effect it will have on literally every business. Heck, you think if a computer was programmed to run that Amtrak train in Philly, it would have been doing 100mph where it shouldn't have been?

https://www.youtube.com/v/uCezICQNgJU

You are correct, this will have a bigger impact on society than the personal computer.

Did you also see that the self-driving semi is going to hit the road this month.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on May 17, 2015, 12:21:22 AM
Google....too much power.

I like driving, I don't want anyone driving for me.


Why not just cut off everyone's balls.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 17, 2015, 06:41:09 AM
Google....too much power.

I like driving, I don't want anyone driving for me.


Why not just cut off everyone's balls.

100 years ago ....

Henry Ford ... Too much power

I like riding my horse, I don't want the motor cars on the road.

Why not cut off everyone's balls.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 17, 2015, 03:51:36 PM
I posted this in the airplane thread, meant to put it here ...


http://qz.com/403628/autonomous-cars-will-destroy-millions-of-jobs-and-reshape-the-economy-by-2025/
 

Most people—experts included—seem to think that the transition to driverless vehicles will come slowly over the coming few decades, and that large hurdles exist for widespread adoption. I believe that this is significant underestimation.

Autonomous cars will be commonplace by 2025 and have a near monopoly by 2030, and the sweeping change they bring will eclipse every other innovation our society has experienced. They will cause unprecedented job loss and a fundamental restructuring of our economy, solve large portions of our environmental problems, prevent tens of thousands of deaths per year, save millions of hours with increased productivity, and create entire new industries that we cannot even imagine from our current vantage point.

The transition is already beginning to happen. Elon Musk, Tesla Motor’s CEO, says that their 2015 models will be able to self-drive 90% of the time. And major automakers aren’t far behind—according to Bloomberg News, GM’s 2017 Cadillac is planned to feature “technology that takes control of steering, acceleration and braking at highway speeds of 70 miles per hour or in stop-and-go congested traffic.”

Both Google and Tesla predict that fully-autonomous cars—what Musk describes as “true autonomous driving where you could literally get in the car, go to sleep, and wake up at your destination”—will be available to the public by 2020.


How it will unfold

Industry experts think that consumers will be slow to purchase autonomous cars—while this may be true, it is a mistake to assume that this will impede the transition.
Morgan Stanley’s research shows that cars are driven just 4% of the year, which is an astonishing waste considering that the average cost of car ownership is nearly $9,000 per year. Next to a house, an automobile is the second-most expensive asset that most people will ever buy—it is no surprise that ride sharing services like Uber and car sharing services like Zipcar are quickly gaining popularity as an alternative to car ownership.

It is now more economical to use a ride-sharing service if you live in a city and drive less than 10,000 miles per year. And current research confirms that we would be eager to use autonomous cars if they were available. A full 60% of US adults surveyed stated that they would ride in an autonomous car, and nearly 32% said they would not continue to drive once an autonomous car was available instead. But no one is more excited than Uber—CEO Travis Kalanick recently stated that Uber will eventually replace all of its drivers with self-driving cars.

A January 2013 Columbia University study once suggested that with a fleet of just 9,000 autonomous cars, Uber could replace every taxi cab in New York City, and that passengers would wait an average of 36 seconds for a ride that costs about $0.50 per mile. Such convenience and low cost would make car ownership inconceivable, and autonomous, on-demand taxis—the “transportation cloud”—will quickly become the dominant form of transportation.
Fallout

Disruptive innovation does not take kindly to entrenched competitors—like Blockbuster, Barnes and Noble, and Polaroid, it is unlikely that major automakers like General Motors, Ford, and Toyota will survive the leap. They are geared to produce millions of cars in dozens of different varieties to cater to individual taste and have far too much overhead to sustain such a dramatic decrease in sales. I think that most will be bankrupt by 2030, while startup automakers like Tesla will thrive on a smaller number of fleet sales to operators like Uber by offering standardized models with fewer options.

Ancillary industries such as the $198 billion automobile insurance market, $98 billion automotive finance market, $100 billion parking industry, and the $300 billion automotive aftermarket will collapse as demand for their services evaporates. We will see the obsolescence of rental car companies, public transportation systems, and, good riddance, parking, and speeding tickets.

But we will see the transformation of far more than just consumer transportation: self-driving semis, buses, earth movers, and delivery trucks could obviate the need for professional drivers and the support industries that surround them.

The US Bureau of Labor Statistics lists that 915,000 people are employed in motor vehicles and parts manufacturing. Truck, bus, delivery, and taxi drivers account for nearly 6 million professional driving jobs. Virtually all of these jobs will be eliminated within 10-15 years, and this list is by no means exhaustive.

But despite the job loss and wholesale destruction of industries, eliminating the needs for car ownership will yield over $1 trillion in additional disposable income—and that is going to usher in an era of unprecedented efficiency, innovation, and job creation.
A view of the future

Morgan Stanley estimates that a 90% reduction in crashes would save nearly 30,000 lives and prevent 2.12 million injuries annually. Driverless cars do not need to park—vehicles cruising the street looking for parking spots account for an astounding 30% of city traffic, not to mention that eliminating curbside parking adds two extra lanes of capacity to many city streets. Traffic will become nonexistent, saving each US commuter 38 hours every year—nearly a full work week. As parking lots and garages, car dealerships, and bus stations become obsolete, tens of millions of square feet of available prime real estate will spur explosive metropolitan development.

The environmental impact of autonomous cars has the potential to reverse the trend of global warming and drastically reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. As most autonomous cars are likely to be electric, we would eliminate most of the 134 billion gallons of gasoline used each year in the US alone. And while recycling 242 million vehicles will certainly require substantial resources, the surplus of raw materials will decrease the need for mining.

But perhaps most exciting for me are the coming inventions, discoveries, and creation of entire new industries that we cannot yet imagine.
It is exciting to be alive, isn’t it?

This post originally appeared at The Personal Blog of Zack Kanter. Follow Zack on Twitter at @ZackKanter. We welcome your comments at ideas@qz.com.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on May 17, 2015, 11:12:12 PM
Within 10 years....I'll take that bet.  How much?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 18, 2015, 03:02:17 AM
Within 10 years....I'll take that bet.  How much?

You self-driving car was approved for road use last week.  You just lost.

I'll PM you next time I'm in southern CA and you can buy me lunch.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on May 18, 2015, 10:08:21 PM
100 years ago ....

Henry Ford ... Too much power

I like riding my horse, I don't want the motor cars on the road.

Why not cut off everyone's balls.


Horrible analogy....going from riding a horse to driving a car....you're still in control.   No need to get your balls cut off and emasculated like this current nonsense.  Do you own a Prius by chance?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on May 18, 2015, 10:10:37 PM
You self-driving car was approved for road use last week.  You just lost.

I'll PM you next time I'm in southern CA and you can buy me lunch.
 

Uhm, it says commonplace by 2025 and near monopoly by 2030.  I owe you nothing, but I'm glad to take the bet so that in 2025 we can see just how many cars are autonomous, let alone 5 years later being near a monopoly.   
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 18, 2015, 10:18:54 PM
Horrible analogy....going from riding a horse to driving a car....you're still in control.   No need to get your balls cut off and emasculated like this current nonsense.  Do you own a Prius by chance?

So you don't trust trust a computer to drive the car. 

Remember what I said about being in the corner at sunrise?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on May 18, 2015, 10:29:07 PM
So you don't trust trust a computer to drive the car. 

Remember what I said about being in the corner at sunrise?

Not a matter if I trust it, I don't want it to do it for me.  I prefer to do it myself.  I like my balls and don't wish to have someone else or something else doing it for me.  Has nothing to do with the trust of whether another entity can do it.

You continue to equate on people that they don't like technology or fear it, but you are dead wrong.  I'm all for it, but that doesn't mean I want to use it.  If you want to be driven around by an autonomous car, knock your socks off.  I don't care to.  Nor are they foolproof, as some want to make them out to be.  Are they safer than people driving them?  Probably.  Are they safer planes than pilots...we'll see.  Nothing is full proof, is it worth the expense?  We'll see. 

I'll take that 10 year bet in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: martyconlonontherun on May 18, 2015, 10:39:05 PM
Not a matter if I trust it, I don't want it to do it for me.  I prefer to do it myself.  I like my balls and don't wish to have someone else or something else doing it for me.  Has nothing to do with the trust of whether another entity can do it.

You continue to equate on people that they don't like technology or fear it, but you are dead wrong.  I'm all for it, but that doesn't mean I want to use it.  If you want to be driven around by an autonomous car, knock your socks off.  I don't care to.  Nor are they foolproof, as some want to make them out to be.  Are they safer than people driving them?  Probably.  Are they safer planes than pilots...we'll see.  Nothing is full proof, is it worth the expense?  We'll see. 

I'll take that 10 year bet in a heartbeat.
I guess I don't understand what makes you a man by driving a car? If it's a waste of time, money and resources. I don't see how it's a good idea to feign masculinity when a rational person sees more productive options or more intelligent options. I guess you can say you enjoy driving but do you enjoy driving every day?

Remember when it was a man to keep playing after a concussion? Times change and keeping your balls is a horrible way to look at life.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 18, 2015, 10:59:45 PM
Not a matter if I trust it, I don't want it to do it for me.  I prefer to do it myself.  I like my balls and don't wish to have someone else or something else doing it for me.  Has nothing to do with the trust of whether another entity can do it.

You continue to equate on people that they don't like technology or fear it, but you are dead wrong.  I'm all for it, but that doesn't mean I want to use it.  If you want to be driven around by an autonomous car, knock your socks off.  I don't care to.  Nor are they foolproof, as some want to make them out to be.  Are they safer than people driving them?  Probably.  Are they safer planes than pilots...we'll see.  Nothing is full proof, is it worth the expense?  We'll see. 

I'll take that 10 year bet in a heartbeat.

This sounds selfish and irresponsible.  If we get to the point where driverless cars are safer, cheaper and more efficient, you are going to demand you get to risk others saftey, time and expense by allowing you drive yourself anyway.  And this because, sitting in the back (if a driverless car even has a back) taking a nap, watching TV, talking, read or staring out the window is somehow an affront to your Masculinity?

Practical point.  If/when driverless cars are safer, cheaper and more efficient the way they are getting humans off the road is expense.  Auto companies will start making less driver cars and they will be more expensive.  Insurance rates for drivers will skyrocket making it unaffordable.

Doesn't matter what you think, no one will be able to afford it.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 19, 2015, 12:06:50 AM
This sounds selfish and irresponsible.  If we get to the point where driverless cars are safer, cheaper and more efficient, you are going to demand you get to risk others saftey, time and expense by allowing you drive yourself anyway.  And this because, sitting in the back (if a driverless car even has a back) taking a nap, watching TV, talking, read or staring out the window is somehow an affront to your Masculinity?

Practical point.  If/when driverless cars are safer, cheaper and more efficient the way they are getting humans off the road is expense.  Auto companies will start making less driver cars and they will be more expensive.  Insurance rates for drivers will skyrocket making it unaffordable.

Doesn't matter what you think, no one will be able to afford it.
Laws will slowly be passed that will eradicate human driving*
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2015, 01:18:33 AM
This sounds selfish and irresponsible.  If we get to the point where driverless cars are safer, cheaper and more efficient, you are going to demand you get to risk others saftey, time and expense by allowing you drive yourself anyway.  And this because, sitting in the back (if a driverless car even has a back) taking a nap, watching TV, talking, read or staring out the window is somehow an affront to your Masculinity?

Practical point.  If/when driverless cars are safer, cheaper and more efficient the way they are getting humans off the road is expense.  Auto companies will start making less driver cars and they will be more expensive.  Insurance rates for drivers will skyrocket making it unaffordable.

Doesn't matter what you think, no one will be able to afford it.

Not going to happen in my lifetime so I'm not going to sweat it.  Just as I can go up in a piper cub tomorrow via general aviation as long as I'm licensed, I'll still be able to drive.

I like my freedom and part of my freedom is to do this stuff on my own, on my time, with my hands on the controls.  Again, if you want to be Miss Daisy, knock your socks off.  Not for me.  No different than someone cutting my grass...I do it myself.  Fixing my truck...I do it myself.  I enjoy it, it's a skill like anything else.  The idea of losing that skill....might as well cut my balls off.  No thanks.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: mu_hilltopper on May 19, 2015, 09:05:22 AM
 

Uhm, it says commonplace by 2025 and near monopoly by 2030.  I owe you nothing, but I'm glad to take the bet so that in 2025 we can see just how many cars are autonomous, let alone 5 years later being near a monopoly.   

Chicos will win this bet by a decade or more, easy.   

Look at hybrid cars as an example of automotive change.  The first was released in 1999.  While the Prius is a huge success, you know what percentage of the market electric/hybrid vehicles are 15 years later?  A whopping 2.7% .. and its floated up and down from 2.5 to 3.2% over the past 8 years .. indicating it's not anywhere near doubling any time soon.

Or nav systems in cars.  Every car should have this $100 piece of tech, but since car manufacturers bundle it into a $2-3-4k package .. only a fraction of new cars have them, with most folks opting to use their smart phone.

The same will happen to self-driving cars.  The tech will be pretty good in a decade, but mainstream manufacturers will treat it as an expensive optional feature.   Sure, GoogleCar and Tesla will bake auto-drive into their base model cars .. but it'll be way more than 10-15 years before the Big 3 will do that, instead sucking as much profit out of it as possible.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on May 19, 2015, 09:10:34 AM
Speaking of Nav stuff, I wrote a detailed complaint to Garmin from when we were in Lake Tahoe a few months ago.  How horrid their navigation options were from Tahoe to L.A. vs what my iPhone was saying.  We did a little test.

To Garmin's credit, they wrote back admitting a big glitch in their software maps up there.  Their chosen route would have made the difference in the driving by 1 hour and 53 minutes and more than 85 miles added in length.  That is some seriously wrong screw up for a GPS system in 2015. 
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: #UnleashSean on May 19, 2015, 02:46:55 PM
Speaking of Nav stuff, I wrote a detailed complaint to Garmin from when we were in Lake Tahoe a few months ago.  How horrid their navigation options were from Tahoe to L.A. vs what my iPhone was saying.  We did a little test.

To Garmin's credit, they wrote back admitting a big glitch in their software maps up there.  Their chosen route would have made the difference in the driving by 1 hour and 53 minutes and more than 85 miles added in length.  That is some seriously wrong screw up for a GPS system in 2015. 

Damn how old are you? You still have a gps that isn't just your phone? You realize the $50-300 device is way worse then a phone connected to google maps right?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 19, 2015, 02:59:09 PM
Damn how old are you? You still have a gps that isn't just your phone? You realize the $50-300 device is way worse then a phone connected to google maps right?

I'm not saying that this is Chicos' issue, but when I got my last car (sans nav since, as Hilltopper mentioned, it was part of a $3000 package), I also went out and bought a $75 Garmin.  There are areas where I drive where there is no cellular service.  If relying on my telephone, I'd be screwed.  I don't have the same problem with the Garmin.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Benny B on May 19, 2015, 03:46:32 PM
Google....too much power.

I like driving, I don't want anyone driving for me.


Why not just cut off everyone's balls.

Ummmm... shot in the dark here.... because half the drivers out there don't have balls, perhaps?  Why should women not have to bear any pain here?  Especially since everyone in California knows that women drivers are the absolute worst.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on May 19, 2015, 03:53:44 PM
I'm not saying that this is Chicos' issue, but when I got my last car (sans nav since, as Hilltopper mentioned, it was part of a $3000 package), I also went out and bought a $75 Garmin.  There are areas where I drive where there is no cellular service.  If relying on my telephone, I'd be screwed.  I don't have the same problem with the Garmin.

Your mobile phone has GPS and connects the same way the Garmin.  It doesn't connect via the cell network.  On my phone, AT&T gives me a target/dot next to the Bars indicating connection to the GPS. 
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: CTWarrior on May 19, 2015, 04:01:46 PM
I would guess that a lot of (most?) people would hang on to the cars they own until they die out before switching to the new paradigm, so it may take a little longer than these predictions.  But no doubt it is coming.  I'm convinced that it will become entrenched with the generation that comes of age without needing to learn to drive, so maybe more like 2040.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 19, 2015, 04:56:18 PM
Your mobile phone has GPS and connects the same way the Garmin.  It doesn't connect via the cell network.  On my phone, AT&T gives me a target/dot next to the Bars indicating connection to the GPS. 

OK, maybe I'm learning something here.  The GPS is still connected and knows where you are, but don't the maps download via cellular connection?  I know you can purchase Apps for that, but I never did.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: tower912 on May 19, 2015, 05:08:14 PM
I actually agree with Chicos on this one.   I will be one of the last holdouts for driving myself.   I will go absolutely insane if I am sitting in a car going the exact same speed as all of the other cars.  The idea of a journey being the same as an amusement park ride where all of the cars stay the exact same distance apart is nauseating.    I enjoy the occasional random detour down the road less traveled.   The one with curves and hills.   Or scenic vistas.    Getting in a car, punching in a destination,  and then just sitting back and napping or surfing the net has absolutely no appeal.      I accept that it may happen in my lifetime, but I cannot imagine celebrating it. 
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: jesmu84 on May 19, 2015, 06:44:32 PM
I actually agree with Chicos on this one.   I will be one of the last holdouts for driving myself.   I will go absolutely insane if I am sitting in a car going the exact same speed as all of the other cars.  The idea of a journey being the same as an amusement park ride where all of the cars stay the exact same distance apart is nauseating.    I enjoy the occasional random detour down the road less traveled.   The one with curves and hills.   Or scenic vistas.    Getting in a car, punching in a destination,  and then just sitting back and napping or surfing the net has absolutely no appeal.      I accept that it may happen in my lifetime, but I cannot imagine celebrating it. 

I'm the total opposite. I mean, don't get me wrong, I actually really enjoy driving. But, for me, it's more the scenery, time to think, time to be alone, etc. I can do all that without needing to pay attention to the road. Plus, I long for the day when I can get in my car at midnight and wake up somewhere in the day.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 19, 2015, 07:48:53 PM
Chicos will win this bet by a decade or more, easy.   

Look at hybrid cars as an example of automotive change.  The first was released in 1999.  While the Prius is a huge success, you know what percentage of the market electric/hybrid vehicles are 15 years later?  A whopping 2.7% .. and its floated up and down from 2.5 to 3.2% over the past 8 years .. indicating it's not anywhere near doubling any time soon.

Or nav systems in cars.  Every car should have this $100 piece of tech, but since car manufacturers bundle it into a $2-3-4k package .. only a fraction of new cars have them, with most folks opting to use their smart phone.

The same will happen to self-driving cars.  The tech will be pretty good in a decade, but mainstream manufacturers will treat it as an expensive optional feature.   Sure, GoogleCar and Tesla will bake auto-drive into their base model cars .. but it'll be way more than 10-15 years before the Big 3 will do that, instead sucking as much profit out of it as possible.

The big 3 are irrelevant.  Two of them bust five years ago (second time for Chrysler) The manufacture of driverless cars will be someone new and "Uber" them into oblivion.

Prius is a bad example.  It failed to achieve cost savings and remains nothing but a status symbol.

The key to driverless cars catching on is cost savings.  Both in transportation costs, lives and Injuries prevented.  If it can pull this off, and I think it will, the adoption will be rapid.

Does matter what Chicos and Tower think about driving, let me blunt, the cost of human driving will go so high you will not be able to afford it.  That is how they will get you off the road.  See the long post above.  I think it gets it right.

They will start with in densely urban areas as taxis.  uber will replace their drivers with driverless.  If the cost (and live) savings are their, game set and match.  We will know in a few years if it works, widespread adoption a few years after that.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: tower912 on May 19, 2015, 08:10:41 PM
let me blunt

What are you, an IU basketball player?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 20, 2015, 10:01:34 AM
So costs will force the change-over?

What about the motorcycle industry? Will they be forced off the road too?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: 🏀 on May 20, 2015, 10:05:05 AM
So costs will force the change-over?

What about the motorcycle industry? Will they be forced off the road too?

We can only hope so.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 20, 2015, 11:39:03 AM
We can only hope so.

+1

Motorcycle = organ donor creators
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 20, 2015, 12:21:20 PM
+1

Motorcycle = organ donor creators

so why would you like to see less organ donors? better cut your drinking you might need that liver longer than you think
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Benny B on May 20, 2015, 12:23:32 PM
so why would you like to see less organ donors? better cut your drinking you might need that liver longer than you think

Methinks a biker's liver is not something I'd want donated, especially if it was working overtime at the time of the accident.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 20, 2015, 12:45:36 PM
We can only hope so.

so when H-D joins the ranks of B.O.O.B.s and Milwaukee loses thousands of good paying jobs - that's a good thing?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 20, 2015, 12:46:42 PM
Methinks a biker's liver is not something I'd want donated, especially if it was working overtime at the time of the accident.

I get the humor but in actuality the majority of biker accidents are the results of cagers unnatural carnal knowledgeing up

and Marquette will need a new sponsor when Huber can no longer throw around those $$$ from suing cagers on behalf of bikers
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: chapman on May 23, 2015, 03:44:26 PM
Works for me.  Just make sure I can still ride up front, or they'll have to invent a better magic pill for carsickness. 

Maybe I can order the Amazon Car and it'll drive itself to my driveway.  Or maybe if Amazon never gets their fleet of drones approved they'll do Prime Drive and send out little cars that back into your driveway and dump your package off.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 23, 2015, 08:55:40 PM
Works for me.  Just make sure I can still ride up front, or they'll have to invent a better magic pill for carsickness. 

Maybe I can order the Amazon Car and it'll drive itself to my driveway.  Or maybe if Amazon never gets their fleet of drones approved they'll do Prime Drive and send out little cars that back into your driveway and dump your package off.

No front or back seat in a driverless car.  No steering wheel or brake pedal either.

Now before you start in on all the mistakes these cars will make, I would rather ride, or put my family in, in the 1.0 version of the driverless car they have today over a Pakistani taxi driver who has been working for 12 hours.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: classof2k on May 23, 2015, 09:48:55 PM
Thoughts on whether this impacts the airline industry?  If I can jump in a car, sleep soundly for 10 hours, and have a vehicle on the other end, it's going to affect my decision on whether I deal with all the airport, rental car, etc.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: MUCrew on May 23, 2015, 10:08:08 PM
Speaking of Nav stuff, I wrote a detailed complaint to Garmin from when we were in Lake Tahoe a few months ago.  How horrid their navigation options were from Tahoe to L.A. vs what my iPhone was saying.  We did a little test.

To Garmin's credit, they wrote back admitting a big glitch in their software maps up there.  Their chosen route would have made the difference in the driving by 1 hour and 53 minutes and more than 85 miles added in length.  That is some seriously wrong screw up for a GPS system in 2015. 

This
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: chapman on May 23, 2015, 11:06:15 PM
Thoughts on whether this impacts the airline industry?  If I can jump in a car, sleep soundly for 10 hours, and not have a vehicle on the other end, it's going to affect my decision on whether I deal with all the airport, rental car, etc.

That would be nice.  Far too often my flight gets cancelled or delayed and I do the math to figure out that driving probably would have been nearly a wash in total time.  Just last week, about 12 hours of flying (or three flying, nine sitting on runways or in airports) instead of about a nine hour drive.  But as is I'd still rather pass out in the airport lounge during the delays than be behind the wheel that long and put up with DC traffic.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 24, 2015, 06:34:05 AM
That would be nice.  Far too often my flight gets cancelled or delayed and I do the math to figure out that driving probably would have been nearly a wash in total time.  Just last week, about 12 hours of flying (or three flying, nine sitting on runways or in airports) instead of about a nine hour drive.  But as is I'd still rather pass out in the airport lounge during the delays than be behind the wheel that long and put up with DC traffic.

Driverless cars also means no parking (30% to 40% of all dense urban traffic is parking, looking for parking, double parking, etc.)  This doubles the traffic lanes in cities and will make a gigantic difference in traffic congestion.

Driverless cars will also be connected cars. That means every car knows what every other car is doing.  It eliminates the need for stop lights and stop signs (if they exist it will be for pedestrians to cross the street not for traffic flow).  Cars coming to an intersection all know what the other cars are doing so they adjust their speeds accordingly so they each slip through in an uninterrupted fashion.

So connected cars and no parking means you can leave for Dulles Friday at 4:30 in the rain and make it in 20minutes.  And while in the car for those 20 minutes, you can look out the window, listen to music via spotify/Sat radio on a premium sound system, answer emails on your ipad, talk on the phone.  Or watch a re-run of Friends on a 32 inch HDTV in the car.

Or you can be like Chicos, and announce that driverless cars take your balls away and will demand you drive no matter what.  Of course he says this on the 405 as he is pounding his fist into the steering wheel, stressed that bad traffic will cause him to miss his son's soccer game, thinking about all the things he needs to do at work that he is not doing in traffic, all while exhausted from a long day at work wishing he could have a 15 minute nap.

Your call.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GGGG on May 24, 2015, 08:27:59 AM
Why would driverless cars eliminate the need for parking?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 24, 2015, 09:09:53 AM
Why would driverless cars eliminate the need for parking?

The idea behind a driverless car is you would never own one.  

From the long post on page 1

http://qz.com/403628/autonomous-cars-will-destroy-millions-of-jobs-and-reshape-the-economy-by-2025/

Morgan Stanley’s research shows that cars are driven just 4% of the year, which is an astonishing waste considering that the average cost of car ownership is nearly $9,000 per year. Next to a house, an automobile is the second-most expensive asset that most people will ever buy—it is no surprise that ride sharing services like Uber and car sharing services like Zipcar are quickly gaining popularity as an alternative to car ownership.

It is now more economical to use a ride-sharing service if you live in a city and drive less than 10,000 miles per year. And current research confirms that we would be eager to use autonomous cars if they were available. A full 60% of US adults surveyed stated that they would ride in an autonomous car, and nearly 32% said they would not continue to drive once an autonomous car was available instead. But no one is more excited than Uber—CEO Travis Kalanick recently stated that Uber will eventually replace all of its drivers with self-driving cars.

A January 2013 Columbia University study once suggested that with a fleet of just 9,000 autonomous cars, Uber could replace every taxi cab in New York City, and that passengers would wait an average of 36 seconds for a ride that costs about $0.50 per mile. Such convenience and low cost would make car ownership inconceivable, and autonomous, on-demand taxis—the “transportation cloud”—will quickly become the dominant form of transportation.

-------------

So the future is millions of autonomous "taxis"  They come in all shape and sizes.  Basic transportation, luxury for a special night out.  Vans (buses) for large groups, pick-up and vans for other specialized uses.  As the passage above says, press a button on your phone and one shows up at your front door 30 seconds later (because they are a dozen empty ones driving around within a few blocks of your home).

So they do not park, they pick up and drop off.  No parking (100% ban nationwide).  Again, parking (clogging streets with parked cars, looking for parking, doing it illegally) is the single biggest cause of traffic congestion in this country.  It costs society 10 of billions in wasted resources every years.   Additionally, 20% of all gasoline use in this country is cars moving at 0 MPH.  That is, idling while parked or stop because of congestion or at a stop light.  Getting rid of parking and no longer having to burn gas going 0 MPH due to congestion or traffic lights will put thousands of dollars in every current car owners pocket.

How about the plumber that comes with a vans full of tools and parts?  He calls a van and rolls a cart of his tools and parts into the back.  It drops him off, he rolls his cart out the back and the van goes on to another call.  When he is done, one push of a button on the phone and another van (or maybe the same one) returns within 3 minutes.  He rolls his cart in and off he goes.  And instead of driving, he opens his laptop and does his paperwork.  100% updated on paper work all the time before the next call.

Why would a plumber do this?  Because it will save his tens of thousands in costs every year.  No buying, maintaining and insuring an expensive van.  No wasting his life driving.  He sits in the back and watches the afternoon baseball game as the Van takes him to his next stop.  And getting rid of traffic congestion means he can do 30% to 40% more jobs everyday.  More money per Plumber but less plumber jobs.

Will this be disruptive?  You betcha.  Again from the long post.  The last highlighted line is why this will happen.

------------

Fallout

Disruptive innovation does not take kindly to entrenched competitors—like Blockbuster, Barnes and Noble, and Polaroid, it is unlikely that major automakers like General Motors, Ford, and Toyota will survive the leap. They are geared to produce millions of cars in dozens of different varieties to cater to individual taste and have far too much overhead to sustain such a dramatic decrease in sales. I think that most will be bankrupt by 2030, while startup automakers like Tesla will thrive on a smaller number of fleet sales to operators like Uber by offering standardized models with fewer options.

Ancillary industries such as the $198 billion automobile insurance market, $98 billion automotive finance market, $100 billion parking industry, and the $300 billion automotive aftermarket will collapse as demand for their services evaporates. We will see the obsolescence of rental car companies, public transportation systems, and, good riddance, parking, and speeding tickets.

But we will see the transformation of far more than just consumer transportation: self-driving semis, buses, earth movers, and delivery trucks could obviate the need for professional drivers and the support industries that surround them.

The US Bureau of Labor Statistics lists that 915,000 people are employed in motor vehicles and parts manufacturing. Truck, bus, delivery, and taxi drivers account for nearly 6 million professional driving jobs. Virtually all of these jobs will be eliminated within 10-15 years, and this list is by no means exhaustive.

But despite the job loss and wholesale destruction of industries, eliminating the needs for car ownership will yield over $1 trillion in additional disposable income—and that is going to usher in an era of unprecedented efficiency, innovation, and job creation.


-----------

Driverless cars are going to change society more than the invention of the PC.  The epic change is to come and it coming (almost literally) tomorrow with the driverless car.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 24, 2015, 09:33:12 AM
I actually agree with Chicos on this one.   I will be one of the last holdouts for driving myself.   I will go absolutely insane if I am sitting in a car going the exact same speed as all of the other cars.  The idea of a journey being the same as an amusement park ride where all of the cars stay the exact same distance apart is nauseating.    I enjoy the occasional random detour down the road less traveled.   The one with curves and hills.   Or scenic vistas.    Getting in a car, punching in a destination,  and then just sitting back and napping or surfing the net has absolutely no appeal.      I accept that it may happen in my lifetime, but I cannot imagine celebrating it.  

In 1998 economist Paul Krugman was ask to write something for the "coming new millennium" edition of TIME magazine.  He said this about the internet:

http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-krugman-bitcoin-2013-12

The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in 'Metcalfe's law'–which states that the number of potential connections in a network is proportional to the square of the number of participants–becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's.


Don't be like this guy ...
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 27, 2015, 09:47:42 AM
Note this is a self-parking car, not self-driving.  Self-parking features have been available from auto makers for years.

Want to know why the driver-less car means current auto markers are going out of business because a new set new set of auto makers are going to take over?  See the highlighted part below.  Probably one of the dumbest business strategies I've heard of in some time.

"Oh, you wanted the version that does not kill people?  That's extra money.  But you're welcome to buy the version that does kill people for less money.  Your call!"

--------------------------

Self-parking Volvo ploughs into journalists after owner neglects to pay for extra feature that stops cars crashing into people

Wednesday 27 May 2015

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/selfparking-volvo-plows-into-journalists-after-owner-neglects-to-pay-for-extra-feature-that-stops-cars-crashing-into-people-10277203.html

A video showing a car attempting to park but actually plowing into journalists might have resulted from the Volvo’s owner not paying an extra fee to have the car avoid pedestrians.

The video, taken in the Dominican Republic, shows a Volvo XC60 reversing itself, waiting, and then driving back into pedestrians at speed. The horrifying pictures went viral and were presumed to have resulted from a malfunction with the car — but the car might not have had the ability to recognise a human at all.

30 second video of the car running over journalist
https://youtu.be/_8nnhUCtcO8

The accident may have happened because owners have to pay for a special feature known as “pedestrian detection functionality”, which costs extra. The cars do have auto-braking features as standard, but only for avoiding other cars — if they are to avoid crashing into pedestrians, too, then owners must pay extra.

“It appears as if the car in this video is not equipped with Pedestrian detection,” Volvo spokesperson Johan Larsson told Fusion. “This is sold as a separate package.”

The feature uses a radar and camera to see pedestrians.

Even if the car had been fitted with such functionality, the driver would likely have overridden it because of the way they were driving, Larsson told Fusion.

“The pedestrian detection would likely have been inactivated due to the driver inactivating it by intentionally and actively accelerating,” Larsson said. “Hence, the auto braking function is overrided by the driver and deactivated.”

The blog that uploaded the video said that the two men “were bruised but are ok”. They said that “sources” had told them that “the drivers forgot to turn on ‘City-Safe’ mode”.

‘City-Safe’ is the mode that stops the cars from crashing into others when they are moving at 30 mph or less. But even if the mode were turned on, it’s unable to spot humans.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Benny B on May 27, 2015, 10:40:28 AM
The way to make this safe is nothing more than a spin-off of ATR technology that's been available to and (refined by) the military over decades.  A combination of CCDs, sensors, radar, mapping software, image recognition, infra-red cameras, and a small microprocessor can make decisions a lot better than 16 year-old, a lot faster than a 73 year-old, and can see things (at night, blind spots, outside the peripheral vision of the human eye, etc.) that no person can see.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: MUWarrior2007 on May 27, 2015, 11:39:17 AM

[/i]
-------------

So the future is millions of autonomous "taxis"  They come in all shape and sizes.  Basic transportation, luxury for a special night out.  Vans (buses) for large groups, pick-up and vans for other specialized uses.  As the passage above says, press a button on your phone and one shows up at your front door 30 seconds later (because they are a dozen empty ones driving around within a few blocks of your home).


-----------

Driverless cars are going to change society more than the invention of the PC.  The epic change is to come and it coming (almost literally) tomorrow with the driverless car.


Obviously, you're hugely in favor of this.  Personally, I like the idea of having my own personal car (even if it eventually is auto-driven), and unless Uber or some other service were literally charging pennies per mile, it currently wouldn't make sense for me to have to wait on a vehicle.  

Further, I'm curious how your 30-second figure equates for people who live in rural areas.  I'll give you an example: this weekend, I was about 45 minutes west of Lincoln, Nebraska, visiting family on a farm.  The closest town is about 5 minutes drive away, and has 497 people in it.  How do the people who live in this area get a car to them in 30-seconds or less when they don't even have pizza delivery, public transport, or a school within a 20 minute drive?

I think we'll eventually have all automated vehicles, but I think 10-years is a bit ambitious, and I think you're a bit overzealous in your defense of and advocacy for the technology.  Just because people are skeptical does not mean you can demean their intelligence.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 27, 2015, 01:00:00 PM
One theory on how this will work that I've read is that people will use off-site parking.  This is compatible with private ownership of cars (and also compatible with wide-spread use of fee-based cars).  Your car would drive you to work; drop you off; go park itself 15 miles away; and come back to get you at a designated time.  Some car owners would be content to have their car sit in a parking lot during this time.  Others might prefer to have the car out earning its keep as a taxi until needed again.

It will be interesting to see how it all works.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 27, 2015, 01:04:23 PM
Obviously, you're hugely in favor of this.  Personally, I like the idea of having my own personal car (even if it eventually is auto-driven), and unless Uber or some other service were literally charging pennies per mile, it currently wouldn't make sense for me to have to wait on a vehicle.  

Further, I'm curious how your 30-second figure equates for people who live in rural areas.  I'll give you an example: this weekend, I was about 45 minutes west of Lincoln, Nebraska, visiting family on a farm.  The closest town is about 5 minutes drive away, and has 497 people in it.  How do the people who live in this area get a car to them in 30-seconds or less when they don't even have pizza delivery, public transport, or a school within a 20 minute drive?

I think we'll eventually have all automated vehicles, but I think 10-years is a bit ambitious, and I think you're a bit overzealous in your defense of and advocacy for the technology.  Just because people are skeptical does not mean you can demean their intelligence.

Just like broadband, the rural areas will be the last to get driver-less cars.   With broadband Washington called it the "digital divide" and passed legislation to bring broadband to the rural areas.  I suspect they will be screaming about the "driver-less divide" and step in to get them to the rural areas as well.

Look for urban areas to ban driver cars.  So driving from Lincoln NE to Omaha, you'll have to stop at a large parking lot outside of town and get into a driver-less car.

Here is the part that everyone is missing, the driver-less car is going to be a fraction of the cost.  That is why it will take over.  It will not only be a lifestyle choice but an economic one as well.  Part of that cost saving is getting rid of the expensive poor decision prone driver.  This means a drop in accidents saving lives and property damage.  The idea is people will demand you stop driving because you're too costly and too dangerous.  We did this 100 years ago with horses.  Cars were cheaper and cleaner and many refused to give up their horse until they were banned in major cities.

Last month Audi had a driver-less car go from the Santa Monica pier to midtown Manhattan.  California approved driver-less cars for road use earlier this month.  Driver-less semis will be on the road this summer.

Driver-less cars exist now.  They are on the road now.  They are driving now.  So it's not about inventing them, that already happened.  It's only about widespread adoption.

Finally, as noted pages earlier, everyone always underestimates how fast technology is adopted.  Read about Moore Law an idea that has affected everyone's life a lot more than you can imagine.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on May 27, 2015, 02:09:54 PM
How will driver-less cars work during storms? Will there be 4WDriverless vehicles in the snowbelt? Will driver-less cars be smart enough not to drive into high water in Houston this week?

Will there be pools of commuter driverless cars vs. pools of interstate/longhaul driverless vacation cars you would book differently? book a car to take the family to Disney World, does the car wait in the hotel parking lot until your week is up.

What about visiting other countries that still (God forbid) have only driver-cars, young people would soon never have learned to drive and couldn't rent a car in a foreign country.

Sorry but I cannot see everything being worked out very quickly.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 27, 2015, 02:36:42 PM
How will driver-less cars work during storms? Will there be 4WDriverless vehicles in the snowbelt? Will driver-less cars be smart enough not to drive into high water in Houston this week?

Will there be pools of commuter driverless cars vs. pools of interstate/longhaul driverless vacation cars you would book differently? book a car to take the family to Disney World, does the car wait in the hotel parking lot until your week is up.

What about visiting other countries that still (God forbid) have only driver-cars, young people would soon never have learned to drive and couldn't rent a car in a foreign country.

Sorry but I cannot see everything being worked out very quickly.

Who is going to clean the driverless car when some drunk pukes in it?  And when the driverless car with the fresh puke in it comes to pick me up, how long will it take to get me another driverless car?  Will I get a discount?

I'd have to imagine that unsupervised people in driverless cars would treat them like crap and there would be a lot of vandalism.  Of course, the answer to that would be 24/7 surveillance cameras in millions of driverless cars.  Who will monitor that?  Where will it be stored?  Etc.  These are honest questions; I haven't heard/read too much about the driverless car "model" where everyone would be using "cars for hire."  Is the thinking that for-profit companies similar to taxi companies will spring up with fleets of cars that they will deploy and maintain?

Obviously, none of these issues are insurmountable, but I think that even if widespread adoption of driverless cars become a reality (I should probably say, "when" it becomes a reality), lots of people will still prefer to own their own cars rather than rely solely on community cars.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 27, 2015, 04:26:37 PM
Who is going to clean the driverless car when some drunk pukes in it?  And when the driverless car with the fresh puke in it comes to pick me up, how long will it take to get me another driverless car?  Will I get a discount?

I'd have to imagine that unsupervised people in driverless cars would treat them like crap and there would be a lot of vandalism.  Of course, the answer to that would be 24/7 surveillance cameras in millions of driverless cars.  Who will monitor that?  Where will it be stored?  Etc.  These are honest questions; I haven't heard/read too much about the driverless car "model" where everyone would be using "cars for hire."  Is the thinking that for-profit companies similar to taxi companies will spring up with fleets of cars that they will deploy and maintain?

Obviously, none of these issues are insurmountable, but I think that even if widespread adoption of driverless cars become a reality (I should probably say, "when" it becomes a reality), lots of people will still prefer to own their own cars rather than rely solely on community cars.

The are going to have detailed records of who used them.  If a crap filled car shows up, you will push a button and another will show up.  The last person that used it is going to pay in a big way.

Driver-less cars will also have many cameras on them, both recording inside and the surroundings.  (remember these are private corporations, they can do this as the bill of rights does not apply.  Also, current taxi companies have been recording passengers for years.)

I might add that these are not new questions.  When hotels and rental cars were invented the same fears popped up.  People feared this about rental apartments too.

Here is what you have to remember.  A driver-less taxi is your PRIMARY source of transportation.  It is not an amusement ride, it is how you get to work and live your life.  It is critical important to you.  Just like having the ability to rent a car or an apartment.  

You puke and crap in it and you can spend the rest of your life walking or taking the (driver-less) bus.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 27, 2015, 04:31:00 PM
How will driver-less cars work during storms? Will there be 4WDriverless vehicles in the snowbelt? Will driver-less cars be smart enough not to drive into high water in Houston this week?

Will there be pools of commuter driverless cars vs. pools of interstate/longhaul driverless vacation cars you would book differently? book a car to take the family to Disney World, does the car wait in the hotel parking lot until your week is up.

What about visiting other countries that still (God forbid) have only driver-cars, young people would soon never have learned to drive and couldn't rent a car in a foreign country.

Sorry but I cannot see everything being worked out very quickly.

The technology has already been worked out.  Google alone has 10,000 hours of driver-less car testing in all kinds of scenarios.  

And yes their will be dozens of versions.  It will not just be millions of Google eggs buzzing around.  They will be large, small, luxury, basic, vans, trucks, buses and so on.  You can request what you need.

This brings up another cost savings.  Request what you need.  Going to the story to buy furniture?  Have a pick-up or van take you there.  Want to impress a date, luxury car.  Get together with many friends, a party bus or van.  This is far better than now, one car that is forced to meet all these needs.

Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: chapman on May 27, 2015, 05:24:59 PM
Obviously, none of these issues are insurmountable, but I think that even if widespread adoption of driverless cars become a reality (I should probably say, "when" it becomes a reality), lots of people will still prefer to own their own cars rather than rely solely on community cars.

Agree.  They'll never sway people away from giving up the option to have their own car.  You can store things in it, hook up your Xbox and play since you'll be driven around anyway, even have your own fridge, only worry about your own bodily fluids being in it, etc.  In major cities where it's already impractical for most to have a car, it'll be even less practical, more rural areas you'll not have to rely on your own car for everything.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 27, 2015, 05:36:41 PM
Agree.  They'll never sway people away from giving up the option to have their own car.  You can store things in it, hook up your Xbox and play since you'll be driven around anyway, even have your own fridge, only worry about your own bodily fluids being in it, etc.  In major cities where it's already impractical for most to have a car, it'll be even less practical, more rural areas you'll not have to rely on your own car for everything.

That is true, you ban own a driverless car.  But outlays tens of thousands for an asset (car) that is unused 95% of the time.  For about a 1,000/year in taxi fees, you can do the same thing (detailed in long post above).

Remember, driverless means no parking.  No parking much better traffic flow.  Commute times way down.

35 years ago people were arguing that the PC was a toy for hobbies the that had no practical application in the work place.  In 1998 Paul Krugman argued the Internet would be as significant as the fax machine (post above).

People have been epicly wrong about the adoption of new technology.  It is always much faster than you think.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 27, 2015, 11:20:38 PM
Latest self-driving Google car heading to public streets

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102685464

(http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2015/05/11/102666851-462675504.530x298.jpg?v=1431346079)



MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (AP) — The latest version of Google's self-driving car — a pod-like two-seater that needs no gas pedal or steering wheel — will make its debut on public roads this summer, a significant step in the technology giant's mission to have driverless cars available to consumers in the next five years.

This prototype is the first vehicle built from scratch for the purpose of self-driving, Google says. It looks like a Smart car with a shiny black bowler hat to hide its sensors, and it can drive, brake and recognize road hazards without human intervention. It has more capabilities than the prototype Google introduced last May, which was so rudimentary it had fake headlights.

The new pod isn't designed for a long trip, or a joyride. It lacks air bags and other federally required safety features, so it can't go more than 25 miles per hour. It's electric, and has to be recharged after 80 miles. And the pod can only drive in areas that have been thoroughly mapped by Google.

At first, it will likely even have a steering wheel and gas pedal — current California regulations require them. Those regulations also require a driver to be able to take back control of the car at any time. But Google is lobbying for more flexible regulations.

Google will initially build and test 25 pods, mostly in neighborhoods surrounding its Mountain View headquarters. It will eventually build between 50 and 100, and will broaden testing to sites that are hillier and rainier.

The ultimate goal, says Google co-founder Sergey Brin, is computer-controlled cars that can eliminate human error, which is a factor in an estimated 90 percent of the 1.2 million road deaths that occur worldwide each year. Self-driving cars could also improve traffic congestion and transport the elderly and disabled.

Google shocked the auto industry in 2010 with its announcement that it was working on a driverless car. Brin insists Google doesn't aspire to be a car company, but wants its technology to be adopted by automakers.

"We want to partner to bring self-driving to all the vehicles in the world," Brin told a group of journalists and community members gathered earlier this week to take rides in the prototype.

For now the traditional automakers are pursuing their own self-driving technology, but with less ambitious timeline of 10 to 15 years for a truly driverless car.

Chris Urmson, who directs Google's self-driving car project, says the slow-moving, friendly looking prototype — his young son thinks it looks like a koala because of the nose-like black laser on the front — is a good bridge between the company's current test fleet of 20 specially outfitted Lexus SUVs and the more advanced, higher-speed driverless cars of its future, which might not even look like anything on the road today.

"This vehicle is really all about us learning. This vehicle could go on a freeway, but when we think about introducing the technology, we want to do that very thoughtfully and very safely," Urmson says.

Convincing drivers that driverless technology is safe is one of the hurdles the company must overcome. Earlier this week, in response to questions from The Associated Press, Google acknowledged 11 minor accidents in the six years it has been testing autonomous cars. Urmson says the company is proud of that record, and notes that Google's vehicles have completed more than 1.7 million miles of testing. He says all but one of the accidents were caused by drivers in other cars; in the only incident caused by a Google car, a staffer was driving in manual mode.

Consumers question whether they can trust self-driving cars to work all the time, who will be liable if there's an accident and how self-driving cars will interact with regular cars, says the consulting firm J.D. Power and Associates. In a 2013 survey of U.S. drivers, J.D. Power found only one in five was interested in a fully autonomous car.

Urmson says Google needs to do a better job of educating people about self-driving technology and updating them on Google's progress. It's building a Web site to teach people about the technology, and the site will feature a monthly report that will include details of any accidents involving Google cars. The site will also have a section where people can send feedback when they interact with the cars.

The prototype cars — assembled in suburban Detroit by Roush Industries — have the same array of radars, lasers and cameras as Google's fleet of Lexus SUVs, which allows them to share data. If one car's camera spots orange cones and construction signs, for example, it will alert all the others to slow down in that area or reroute around a lane closure.

Dmitri Dolgov, the head of software for the self-driving car project, says Google's software has gotten much better over the last year at classifying objects, like trees and mailboxes, and predicting behavior of pedestrians and other cars. For example, Google's cars will slow down if they sense that a car in the next lane is speeding up to cut in front of them. And in one recent test, a Google car paused when a cyclist ran a red light. Another car, driven by a human, went ahead and nearly hit the cyclist.

The system isn't perfect. On a test drive, one of Google's Lexus SUVs seemed momentarily confused when a mail truck partially blocked its path. Later, during a demonstration drive in Google's parking lot, the prototype — without a wheel or pedal — braked when it spotted a row of folding chairs. It had to figure out that the chairs wouldn't move before it proceeded.

Dolgov says it's impossible to predict everything its test cars might see, so they're programmed to act in the most conservative way when they confront something unusual, like the time a Google SUV stopped and waited while a woman in a wheelchair chased a duck with a broom.

Google isn't alone in developing self-driving cars. Mercedes-Benz, Infiniti and other brands already have advanced driver assistance systems, like lane keeping and adaptive cruise control, that can pilot the car on the highway with minimal input from the driver. Unlike Google, automakers think self-driving cars will arrive feature-by-feature instead of all at once, giving people plenty of time to adapt to autonomous driving.

But Urmson says that approach is "fundamentally wrong."

"We believe that's like saying, 'If I work really hard at jumping, one day I'll just be able to fly,'" he said.

Egil Juliussen, the principal analyst of infotainment and advanced driver assist systems for the consulting firm IHS Automotive, says Google's "moon shot" strategy is difficult and riskier than just adding features to existing cars. But he thinks it could ultimately be successful. Google could make self-driving urban pods for universities or urban centers, for example, or sell its technology to automakers.

Brin says the company is still refining its plans for self-driving cars, but he's excited about their potential.

"Our goal is to create something safer than human drivers," he said.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: hepennypacker5000 on May 27, 2015, 11:43:02 PM
The technology has already been worked out.  Google alone has 10,000 hours of driver-less car testing in all kinds of scenarios.  

And yes their will be dozens of versions.  It will not just be millions of Google eggs buzzing around.  They will be large, small, luxury, basic, vans, trucks, buses and so on.  You can request what you need.

This brings up another cost savings.  Request what you need.  Going to the story to buy furniture?  Have a pick-up or van take you there.  Want to impress a date, luxury car.  Get together with many friends, a party bus or van.  This is far better than now, one car that is forced to meet all these needs.

No self driving car has been tested in bad weather. All 10,000 of those hours have been logged on sunny California days. I don't think winter weather is insurmountable for the tech, but we're not there yet, and it isn't even close to being "all worked out." A self driving car can't drive on roads where all of the lines, and half the signs, are covered in snow.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown on May 28, 2015, 07:23:05 AM
No self driving car has been tested in bad weather. All 10,000 of those hours have been logged on sunny California days. I don't think winter weather is insurmountable for the tech, but we're not there yet, and it isn't even close to being "all worked out." A self driving car can't drive on roads where all of the lines, and half the signs, are covered in snow.
this didn't sound right but its absolutely true... just read about it this morning.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 28, 2015, 07:24:36 AM
Delphi self-driving car goes coast-to-coast, autonomously

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/203216-delphi-self-driving-car-goes-coast-to-coast-autonomously

It’s 1903 all over again when it comes to creating firsts in cross-country driving. This time, it’s not just to make it cross-country by car, but to make the longest autonomous drive cross-country in car. A team of Delphi engineers covered 3,400 miles, San Francisco to New York City, over a span of nine days. The trip was accomplished with “99 percent of the drive in fully automated mode,” Delphi says, using an Audi Q5 SUV modified with all manner of cameras, radars, and laser scanners.

The specially outfitted Q5 would still be ridiculously expensive, more than $500,000, if you counted the price of all the electronics. There are six lidar sensors to measure distance backed up by six radar sensors for bad weather, and multiple to cameras to watch the road plus one focused on the driver and his or her attentiveness. But the coast-to-coast car, which was previewed at CES in January, doesn’t look out of the ordinary (other than the graphics). The sensors are small, many are recessed, and none are big and obtrusive, as opposed to the rooftop laser scanner on a lot of self-driving cars.

(http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Delphi-autonomous-driving-read-out-on-highway-LCD.jpg)

Shorter hops came first, before Delphi’s coast-to-coast run

In January, a self-driving Audi A7 nicknamed Jack, set up by Audi, was driven more or less autonomously to CES covering 560 miles. This car, piloted by journalists, drove itself on highways and used humans to navigate through cities and towns. Now a car has gone cross-country. If Delphi’s claim is numerically accurate (99% self-driving), humans were required for no more than 34 miles of 3,400 traveled. Delphi got to 3,400 miles traveled (San Francisco-to-New York by the most direct interstate highway route is 2,900 miles) by driving a southerly route and stopping at SXSW in Austin on the way.

Self-driving with a few learning experiences

The SF-to-NYC trip went well. For the most part. There were a few areas where Delphi gathered useful information for the next trip based on encounters they didn’t fully expect, according to Phys.Org. Passing or being passed by tractor-trailers, the car wanted to move over a bit farther than necessary (perhaps just as humans are wont to do. Conversely, it didn’t want to move to the left lane to give space to an emergency vehicle on the shoulder, something that’s becoming law in many states. At one point weaving through a construction zone, the hands-off driver in the driver’s seat decided to get hands-on to get through the area.

The variation in lane markings also presented some confusion to the software: yellow and white, narrow and wide, visible and faintly visible, flat and raised. Some of that can be laid at the feet of America’s crappy road infrastructure and the shortfall in federal gasoline tax receipts. The federal tax on gas has been 18.4 cents per gallon since 1993; to keep pace with inflation it should be 29.9 cents. It’s also taking a hit because Americans are driving more, but they’re doing it in more-efficient cars, so revenues are down further.

Delphi estimates that the electronics on the car could cost as little as $5,000 in just a few years. Variants of what’s on the testbed Audi will appear on production Audis in a couple and a radar/camera subset will be on the much-anticipated Volvo XC90.

1903? That was the first cross-country trip by car by Horatio Nelson Jackson and Sewall K. Crocker, also starting in San Francisco. They suffered the first breakdown 15 miles into the journey and took 63 days. Gasoline usage was reported as 800 gallons, or 4 miles per gallon.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 28, 2015, 07:28:50 AM
this didn't sound right but its absolutely true... just read about it this morning.

There is not one self-driving car.  Every major car manufacturer is racing to build one (the are terrified to be left behind), as well as Google and other Silicon valley firms.

They all have their strengths and weakness.  Google's technology is struggles with bad weather.  Audi's is much better (above).

Like 5000 said, this can and will be solved.

Remember the first idea of making a driver-less car was 2010.  They were on the roads in limited testing in 4 years!  So to go from zero to something that works in four years is an amazing pace.  They are not 20 years from perfecting it.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: MUCrew on May 28, 2015, 08:23:20 AM
http://y105fm.com/car-safety-demonstration-ends-with-incredibly-ironic-crash/
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 28, 2015, 10:58:56 AM
http://y105fm.com/car-safety-demonstration-ends-with-incredibly-ironic-crash/

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=47609.msg732446#msg732446

30 second video of the car running over journalist
https://youtu.be/_8nnhUCtcO8

The accident may have happened because owners have to pay for a special feature known as “pedestrian detection functionality”, which costs extra. The cars do have auto-braking features as standard, but only for avoiding other cars — if they are to avoid crashing into pedestrians, too, then owners must pay extra.

-----------

Note this is a self-parking car, not self-driving.  Self-parking features have been available from auto makers for years.

Want to know why the driver-less car means current auto markers are going out of business because a new set new set of auto makers are going to take over?  See the highlighted part below.  Probably one of the dumbest business strategies I've heard of in some time.

"Oh, you wanted the version that does not kill people?  That's extra money.  But you're welcome to buy the version that does kill people for less money.  Your call!"
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 28, 2015, 07:58:54 PM
Excellent PowerPoint ...  worth a look if you're interested in driverless cars

THE COMING DRIVERLESS CAR AND ITS IMPACT ON REAL ESTATE
Why Driverless Cars Will Change the World While Driverless Real Estate Investing Will Leave You Behind

http://www.necanet.org/docs/default-source/2014-NECA-IBEW-Employee-Benefits-Conference/6-jeff-kanne-driverless-cars.pdf?sfvrsn=2

This was prepared by National Restate Advisors with almost 10 million square feet and $2 billion under management.  They are concerned that driverless car will have a big impact of their portfolio of properties.

I think they are correct to worry about this.

-----------

Again this PowerPoint is full of interesting history and stats.  

Here is one to ponder (page 22), 15% of the surface area of Milwaukee is parking spaces, 39% is streets.  So 54% of Milwaukee is devoted to cars!

Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on May 29, 2015, 06:59:24 AM
This is somehting I argued above, the auto industry has no choice but to push head-long into developing driver-less cars and that will wind up destroying it.  Fiat Chrysler chief executive Sergio Marchionne agrees and gave a presentation earlier this week that said as much (link below)  FYI - Marchionne has always been an outside the box "frank" speaker.  You never get corporate-speak from him.

Restated, the era of the modern car, now 100 years old, is ending.  Everything that goes with it is ending as well.  See the presentation is the post immediately below from National Restate Advisors.  They do a good job of showing how the driver-less car will change everything.

---------------------

A self-driven road to capital destruction: James Saft
By James Saft May 28, 2015

http://blogs.reuters.com/james-saft/2015/05/28/a-self-driven-road-to-capital-destruction-james-saft/

What happens to an industry which develops a new offering so fantastic that ownership of its
product is cut in half?

Investors in the carmakers may in coming decades find out, as the advent of driverless cars disrupts (there really is no better word) an industry already suffering from over-investment and poor long-term performance.

Cars that drive themselves will do just that, allowing owners to keep a given vehicle working more of the time. That will lead to a more than doubling in annual mileage per car over the next 25 years but bring vehicles per household down by nearly 50 percent, argues Barclays auto analyst Brian Johnson.

That will translate to an annual drop in U.S. auto sales of about 40 percent and a 60 percent cut in the national car fleet, according to Johnson. To ‘survive,’ General Motors would need to cut North American production by 68 percent and Ford by 58 percent.

“A historical precedent exists: horses once filled the many roles that cars fill today, but as the automobile came along, the population of horses dropped sharply,” Johnson wrote in a recent note to clients. The U.S. horse population dropped from a peak of more than 21 million in 1915 to six million in 1949.

It isn’t just that the family car will be able to handle more of our needs, allowing for lower vehicle ownership.

Shared self-driving vehicles and pooled self-driving vehicles (think a self-driving Uber) will further cut back on
demand. Johnson estimates that whereas Uber can offer shared rides at $3 to $3.50 per mile today, ultimately that service might fall in price to as little as 8 cents a mile if the car is doing the driving.

For those of us stuck chauffeuring our offspring from school to activities to playdates this may all seem a dream, but for investors in the automotive business, not to mention the car companies and suppliers themselves, it could be a bit of a nightmare.

It isn’t that there aren’t strategies to manage and profit from transformation and decline, it is that these are difficult to pull off, and are a game not every player can win.

Fiat Chrysler chief executive Sergio Marchionne has been unusually frank, not just about the poor performance of
the industry, but about the need for combinations to bring costs, notably of research and development, under control.

“I am absolutely certain that before 2018 there will be a merger,” Sergio Marchionne said on Thursday in the wake of reports he’d explored a deal with GM.

BAD BUSINESSES AND GOOD STRATEGIES

Marchionne titled a recent presentation “Confessions of a Capital Junkie,” arguing that the industry won’t be able to make acceptable returns on capital without mergers and joint ventures. Ironically much of the capital will feed the investment in demand-killing, self-driving cars.
http://www.fcagroup.com/en-US/investor_relations/events_presentations/quarterly_results_presentations/SM_Fire_investor_presentation.pdf

You don’t often see industry titans not only admitting that their sector hasn’t covered its cost of capital but more or less begging to be put in rehab.

Aswath Damodaran, a valuation expert at New York University, says the auto industry qualifies as a “bad business.”

Not only is the industry globally not generating a return on invested capital equal to its cost of capital, which Damodaran calculates at 7.53 percent in 2015, but has only done so once in the past 10 years.

There are, according to Damodaran, four main strategies for bad businesses: sell up; starve it and take cash out; close your eyes and hum; or, finally, restructure aggressively.
http://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com/2015/05/no-light-at-end-of-tunnel-investing-in.html

The last, which Marchionne is advocating, has the potential for high rewards but also carries high risks. It is very easy to get the execution wrong and to make your outcome even worse.

As an investor, of course, it isn’t so much about the business model as it is about price. Pay the right price and you will do handsomely out of even a quickly dwindling industry.

But many investors, not to mention executives, are slow to recognize that the business they steer or own is on the slide and mark it down accordingly.

“If we attach large values to the disruptors of existing businesses, consistency requires us to reassess the values of the disrupted companies,” Damodaran writes.

“Thus, if we are bidding up the values of Tesla, Uber and Google (driverless cars) because they might disrupt the
automotive business, does it not stand to reason that we should be bidding down (at least collectively) the values of Volkswagen, Ford and Toyota?”

That itself may be the biggest impediment to Marchionne’s vision coming good.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: jesmu84 on June 04, 2015, 07:21:23 PM
Self-driving car related...

http://www.businessinsider.com/technology-is-destroying-jobs-and-it-could-spur-a-global-crisis-2015-6
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: mr.MUskie on June 04, 2015, 11:37:44 PM
Is the self driving car going to tow my (self-driving?) boat to the lake?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: rocket surgeon on June 05, 2015, 06:51:20 AM
and that's not all-how about a "drunk-proof" car?    but it sounds like they are trying to make it more complicated then they have to.  just put a damn hose in front of the dash board and blow away while you have your ass in the chair-bada bing bada boom.  all these laers, infra red gyroscopes, eyeball sensors, testicle wires...cheezus man, next thing ya know, your car is doing a colonoscopy, clips your toe nails, combs your hair, brushes/flosses ;D your teeth all while your driving to grandmas
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on June 07, 2015, 09:34:22 PM
The Self-Driving Car and the Coming Revolution in Auto Insurance
Google seems to be laying the groundwork to underwrite its own policies, displacing traditional carriers.
By Valerie Raburn
June 7, 2015 6:18 p.m. ET

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-self-driving-car-and-the-coming-revolution-in-auto-insurance-1433715535

Google ’s new foray into the American auto-insurance market will likely bring in a good chunk of revenue, but what’s really valuable to the Silicon Valley giant is the mass of data it will be able to collect.

In March the company launched a U.S. version of its Google Compare auto-insurance site, which has been up and running in the United Kingdom since 2012. The U.S. site allows consumers to get quotes from a dozen auto-insurance companies, including MetLife and Mercury Insurance. The rollout is starting with California, but Google says the site will be open to residents in other states soon.

At first glance this appears to be simply another enticing revenue stream for the company. Google Compare aggregates insurance quotes from more carriers than any one consumer could possibly juggle on his own, which will draw shoppers looking for the best deal. Google gets paid each time a user on the site clicks through and buys a quoted policy.

Yet consider how all this sifting of auto-insurance rates will position the company: Could Google turn this revenue-generating learning experience into a more lucrative opportunity to underwrite its own insurance policies and displace traditional carriers—especially once driverless cars become a reality?

Consumers using Google Compare enter their demographic and vehicle information, just as they would to get a quote on the website of a big-name carrier. Google then is able to see—and subsequently analyze—the rates that more than a dozen insurers return to that customer.

This broad understanding of how auto-related risks are priced in the competitive market could allow the company to insure tomorrow’s vehicles, or simply roll the cost of insurance into the retail price of Google’s own driverless car once it hits the market. That’s one way for Google to become the exclusive insurer of its driverless cars, firmly slamming the door on any would-be competitors.

There’s a reason that Google Compare went live in the United Kingdom, where it now presents quotes from 124 companies, before it was introduced here. The U.K has already approved testing of driverless cars on public roads. U.S. regulators are being more conservative, taking time to think through the implications of the new technology.

For example, government representatives and several companies—including Ford, General Motors, Honda, Toyota and Xerox, where I work—have joined with the University of Michigan and the Michigan Department of Transportation to build Mcity, a 32-acre simulated town that will test various types of connected and autonomous vehicles. Mcity, which includes several miles of roadway, roundabouts, crosswalks and other obstacles, is slated to open in July.

It’s not difficult to imagine how driverless cars will change consumer habits and choices. Fewer people will buy cars, as ordering a vehicle from an unmanned car service will be cheap and convenient. In some ways, this will bring the luxury of a chauffeur to middle-class families and convert drive time into bonus time. Google reportedly has invested $258 million in the app-based ride service Uber, which recently announced its own initiative to research autonomous vehicle technology.

All this will upend the auto-insurance market, which has annual revenues north of $150 billion. For one thing, the businesses that own and furnish cars for just-in-time transport will be responsible for insuring them. For another, the accident rate with self-driving vehicles will be but a fraction of what it is today, since human error will be eliminated from the equation. That will push insurance payouts and prices way down. After an accident, the onboard computer and sensors will be able to determine whether it was caused by a poorly designed algorithm or a parts failure.

Since often fault won’t be an issue, auto insurance could come to resemble general product liability insurance, similar to that held by manufacturers of everything from stovetops to trampolines. Hence the opportunity for Google, armed with mountains of data on the evolving market, to confidently bundle insurance into the price of its driverless vehicles.

The bottom line: In the short term, insurance carriers participating in Google Compare might draw consumers away from the big-name players. In the long term, not only could personal auto insurers struggle to stay afloat, but commercial insurers could be muscled out of the market as well if Google—tomorrow’s auto maker—gets into the business of managing what happens when cars collide.

Today’s traditional insurance carriers might want to explore alternate lines of business. The velocity of change over the next 10 to 15 years will be unprecedented. It will be interesting to see how the insurance industry responds.

Ms. Raburn is chief innovation officer of insurance services at Xerox.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: classof2k on June 27, 2015, 09:13:48 AM
http://www.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_how_a_driverless_car_sees_the_road
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2015, 09:17:54 AM
This was funny

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/driverless-cars-hit-the-road-almost-hit-each-other/
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 27, 2015, 01:21:00 PM
This was funny

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/driverless-cars-hit-the-road-almost-hit-each-other/

Wonder if the non-driver in one car flipped off the non-driver in the other.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: 77ncaachamps on June 27, 2015, 07:10:49 PM
I like what this offers!

There can be driverless RVs: I can sleep in my bed to work, brush my teeth, shower and change and STILL get to work on time!

Who needs a house with a lawn to maintain or with exorbitant rent? Driverless mobile homes will fill the housing gap!
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on June 27, 2015, 08:22:34 PM
I like what this offers!

There can be driverless RVs: I can sleep in my bed to work, brush my teeth, shower and change and STILL get to work on time!

Who needs a house with a lawn to maintain or with exorbitant rent? Driverless mobile homes will fill the housing gap!

I get what your trying to say ... But in a world of driverless cars all connected to each other and no parking, going from Mequon to Mitchell airport on a Friday at 5pm in the rain will take 15 minutes. 

You will no longer have a commute that will take much time.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on June 27, 2015, 08:24:56 PM
http://www.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_how_a_driverless_car_sees_the_road


I like the first line of this story ....

Statistically, the least reliable part of the car is ... the driver.

Once you understand how true this is you'll then understand why it is so important to eliminate the concept of a driver.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2015, 08:57:46 PM
I get what your trying to say ... But in a world of driverless cars all connected to each other and no parking, going from Mequon to Mitchell airport on a Friday at 5pm in the rain will take 15 minutes. 

You will no longer have a commute that will take much time.

By the time this happens, most of us here will be drooling on a pillow if we are still kicking
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2015, 08:58:51 PM
I like the first line of this story ....

Statistically, the least reliable part of the car is ... the driver.

Once you understand how true this is you'll then understand why it is so important to eliminate the concept of a driver.


For those of us that are reliable, never had an accident, passed the NASCAR road school test....don't need it!
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on June 27, 2015, 09:51:54 PM
By the time this happens, most of us here will be drooling on a pillow if we are still kicking

10 years

----------------


Bill Gates says the pace of innovation is as fast as ever
Philantropist says technology is starting to outstrip what was imaginable in his youth
Feb 26, 2015 4:33 AM ET

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bill-gates-says-the-pace-of-innovation-is-as-fast-as-ever-1.2972866

Microsoft founder and billionaire philanthropist Bill Gates says the pace of technological innovation is as fast as ever and shows no signs of slowing down.

"We're finally at the point where, in a few areas, it's starting to outstrip what was even imaginable in my youth," Gates told CBC’s chief correspondent Peter Mansbridge in a sit-down interview Wednesday.

Gates predicts a future where people will work seamlessly between devices through cloud-based computing: "Its impact on how we bank, how we communicate, how we entertain ourselves — we are just at the beginning of that," he said in the interview, which airs Saturday on Mansbridge One on One.

Computing will continue to expand to different devices and will use more natural interfaces, Gates said. “Speech is getting really very good, handwriting recognition is very good,” he said. "It will be this personal agent that's very, very powerful."

Improving global health

Gates was in Ottawa on Wednesday for a series of meetings to discuss his foundation’s efforts to improve health in the developing world.

Gates launched the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation in the year 2000, and he has laid out an ambitious plan for the organization’s next 15 years.

“There's six million kids a year that are still dying. It was 12 million back in 1990 so we've cut it in half,” he said. “Our goal over the next 15 years is to get it down to three million."

Bill Gates, Stephen Harper look to next steps for maternal health
$500M immunization fund pledged by Canada for developing nations
While in Ottawa, Gates met with Prime Minister Stephen Harper to discuss Canada’s efforts to improve maternal, newborn and child health around the world. Harper and Gates discussed these issues in a roundtable with international aid organizations.

Gates also met with Gov. Gen. David Johnston, NDP Leader Tom Mulcair and Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau at separate events in Ottawa.

Mansbridge One on One airs on CBC News Network Saturdays at 6:30 p.m. ET and on CBC-TV Sundays at 1 p.m.

   
   
   
   
   
   
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Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2015, 03:21:17 AM
10 years

----------------


Bill Gates says the pace of innovation is as fast as ever
Philantropist says technology is starting to outstrip what was imaginable in his youth
Feb 26, 2015 4:33 AM ET

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/bill-gates-says-the-pace-of-innovation-is-as-fast-as-ever-1.2972866

Microsoft founder and billionaire philanthropist Bill Gates says the pace of technological innovation is as fast as ever and shows no signs of slowing down.

"We're finally at the point where, in a few areas, it's starting to outstrip what was even imaginable in my youth," Gates told CBC’s chief correspondent Peter Mansbridge in a sit-down interview Wednesday.

Gates predicts a future where people will work seamlessly between devices through cloud-based computing: "Its impact on how we bank, how we communicate, how we entertain ourselves — we are just at the beginning of that," he said in the interview, which airs Saturday on Mansbridge One on One.

Computing will continue to expand to different devices and will use more natural interfaces, Gates said. “Speech is getting really very good, handwriting recognition is very good,” he said. "It will be this personal agent that's very, very powerful."

Improving global health

Gates was in Ottawa on Wednesday for a series of meetings to discuss his foundation’s efforts to improve health in the developing world.

Gates launched the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation in the year 2000, and he has laid out an ambitious plan for the organization’s next 15 years.

“There's six million kids a year that are still dying. It was 12 million back in 1990 so we've cut it in half,” he said. “Our goal over the next 15 years is to get it down to three million."

Bill Gates, Stephen Harper look to next steps for maternal health
$500M immunization fund pledged by Canada for developing nations
While in Ottawa, Gates met with Prime Minister Stephen Harper to discuss Canada’s efforts to improve maternal, newborn and child health around the world. Harper and Gates discussed these issues in a roundtable with international aid organizations.

Gates also met with Gov. Gen. David Johnston, NDP Leader Tom Mulcair and Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau at separate events in Ottawa.

Mansbridge One on One airs on CBC News Network Saturdays at 6:30 p.m. ET and on CBC-TV Sundays at 1 p.m.

   
   
   
   
   
   
Report Typo Send Feedback


Not a chance in the way you described it earlier.  They were off on solar panel predictions by millions, off by electric vehicles by millions, etc, etc.  Not a chance.  You were describing mass adoption....cost alone will prevent mass adoption beyond 10 years.  People have their cars they just bought and those they will buy over the next decade, they aren't going away that quickly.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on June 28, 2015, 06:11:08 AM

Not a chance in the way you described it earlier.  They were off on solar panel predictions by millions, off by electric vehicles by millions, etc, etc.  Not a chance.  You were describing mass adoption....cost alone will prevent mass adoption beyond 10 years.  People have their cars they just bought and those they will buy over the next decade, they aren't going away that quickly.

You have it backwards, driverless will cars will be far cheaper, not more expensive.  Human driver cars will see insurance skyrocket as human drivers are a menace and get in the way.  It will be unaffordable to most to insure (especially since most states mandate insurance).

Within two years all new cars will have driver assist functions (cruise control on steroids).  The car will drive itself on the highway.  That is just the beginning.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2015, 09:37:42 AM
You have it backwards, driverless will cars will be far cheaper, not more expensive.  Human driver cars will see insurance skyrocket as human drivers are a menace and get in the way.  It will be unaffordable to most to insure (especially since most states mandate insurance).

Within two years all new cars will have driver assist functions (cruise control on steroids).  The car will drive itself on the highway.  That is just the beginning.

I hear taxi business is gone.  DVDs aren't sold anymore.  For the record, I took a taxi home last night from the airport.  As I got into the taxi, one of the taxi drivers behind me unloaded on what seemed to be an UBER driver that isn't supposed to legally be there.  THought they were going to come to blows.  Cop intervened. 

Point is, you tend to be off on your predictions on the timing by a lot.  I fundamentally AGREE with you on what is EVENTUALLY going to happen, but your timing is just way way way off.

Say your 2 year prediction happens. First off, ALL new cars will not have this feature.  SOME new cars will.  You can also bet your bottom dollar that gen 1 of anything is buggy, not terrific.  Cars on the road today will be on the road today for the next 15 years to purge them out.  The legal issues on these things is still MASSIVE and unsolved.  Read a few articles on liability and who has that liability.  The car companies are trying like the dickens to figure that out, and guess what....that is going to add cost.

Remember how cheap electric cars were going to be by now?    Ahem.....

Again, many years down the road, I'm on board with your view, but your time horizons are way off.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on June 28, 2015, 12:54:49 PM
I hear taxi business is gone.  DVDs aren't sold anymore.  For the record, I took a taxi home last night from the airport.  As I got into the taxi, one of the taxi drivers behind me unloaded on what seemed to be an UBER driver that isn't supposed to legally be there.  THought they were going to come to blows.  Cop intervened.  

Point is, you tend to be off on your predictions on the timing by a lot.  I fundamentally AGREE with you on what is EVENTUALLY going to happen, but your timing is just way way way off.

Say your 2 year prediction happens. First off, ALL new cars will not have this feature.  SOME new cars will.  You can also bet your bottom dollar that gen 1 of anything is buggy, not terrific.  Cars on the road today will be on the road today for the next 15 years to purge them out.  The legal issues on these things is still MASSIVE and unsolved.  Read a few articles on liability and who has that liability.  The car companies are trying like the dickens to figure that out, and guess what....that is going to add cost.

Remember how cheap electric cars were going to be by now?    Ahem.....

Again, many years down the road, I'm on board with your view, but your time horizons are way off.

Five years ago Uber did not exist.  Today it is worth more than every taxi company in the U.S. COMBINED.  in fact some think all the taxi companies are worth nothing combined.

Most people that study these things call it one of the fastest and most profound changes in an established industry in business history.

Why do you think your taxi driver almost came to blows with an Uber driver?  Because the value of his taxi License is now nothing.   That license was supposed to be his retirement, that license supposed to be his investment .  it's now worth zero thanks to Uber.

So you paid someone $30 to $40 dollars to drive you home, that is all he has now thanks to Uber.  

Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2015, 07:48:02 PM
Five years ago Uber did not exist.  Today it is worth more than every taxi company in the U.S. COMBINED.  in fact some think all the taxi companies are worth nothing combined.

Most people that study these things call it one of the fastest and most profound changes in an established industry in business history.

Why do you think your taxi driver almost came to blows with an Uber driver?  Because the value of his taxi License is now nothing.   That license was supposed to be his retirement, that license supposed to be his investment .  it's now worth zero thanks to Uber.

So you paid someone $30 to $40 dollars to drive you home, that is all he has now thanks to Uber.  



With all due respect, the Uber comparison makes no sense.  5 years ago Uber didn't exist, but the cars they drove, the maps, the infrastructure already did.  It was just a matter of someone linking them together.  This is far, far, far different than mass automation of driverless cars that don't exist today.

I don't know if you read what I stated about Uber last week here in California.  Major ruling came down that Uber cannot classify drivers as contract workers anymore, they must be employees.  Huge costs coming from that.  Secondly, on July 1st here in California Uber drivers must carry a separate new policy rider for insurance.  A few weeks ago on the radio they had Uber drivers calling in and how many of them were bailing because the cost of this new insurance is so high that it basically isn't worth it to them to drive anymore.  Not sure if you saw some of the riots in Paris this week with cabbies attacking Uber drivers, trying to flip over their cars.

I love Uber, I use it all of the time.  Have for probably 2 years since the west coast was one of the first markets to have it (not the first).  At LAX, you can't get Uber so I had no choice to take the cab to my office and then get my pickup truck from there.  Is what it is.  I believe their business will do very well, but I also believe the gov't will take many pounds of flesh as they always do, and that means more cost, more regulation, and some of the things we love about Uber today will be going away as a result.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 29, 2015, 09:10:59 AM
Agree with CBB here.   Everything will change, but over a much longer arc.

Driverless cars being possibly "cheaper" is a thin proposition.   The "driverless" tech will be priced at a premium for years, just like GPS was (and still is.)    Leaders like Audi, BMW, Lexus, etc, they're gonna sell you your A4 or 5-series for $40-50k and tack on $10k for the driverless option.  That'll be how it starts.  After 5+ years, the tech will trickle down to the economy cars, but it'll still be an option that increases the price.

And that's just for people who want to buy new cars.  The average age of the US auto fleet is 11.2 years.   Figuring rocket-like adoption rates, like 5% of new cars are driverless, then 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 75, 100% .. just did the math with those rates.. it takes 18 years to replace half the 253m US fleet.  And frankly, my suggested adoption rates are preposterous.  They won't be a third that in the beginning years, making getting to 50, 75, 100 .. way way further out.

None of that factors in the inevitable car accident that kills a family of 6 and a bus full of nuns that give rise to the Luddite party making society rethink the whole robot driver thing.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 29, 2015, 10:18:13 AM
You have it backwards, driverless will cars will be far cheaper, not more expensive.  Human driver cars will see insurance skyrocket as human drivers are a menace and get in the way.  It will be unaffordable to most to insure (especially since most states mandate insurance).

Within two years all new cars will have driver assist functions (cruise control on steroids).  The car will drive itself on the highway.  That is just the beginning.

Why would insurance rates go up if there are some driverless cars? We have none now - all hands-on drivers, so you think there will be more accidents by driven cars when there are driverless cars on the road as well? What's your reason for expecting sky high liability then?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: MUWarrior2007 on June 29, 2015, 10:20:57 AM
Why would insurance rates go up if there are some driverless cars? We have none now - all hands-on drivers, so you think there will be more accidents by driven cars when there are driverless cars on the road as well? What's your reason for expecting sky high liability then?

I'm guessing his theory is that insurers will artificially inflate rates due to the assumption that driverless cars will be safer and there will be less accidents (despite the fact that they would need several years of underwriting/actuarial proof to do this...). 
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: martyconlonontherun on June 29, 2015, 11:04:02 AM

Not a chance in the way you described it earlier.  They were off on solar panel predictions by millions, off by electric vehicles by millions, etc, etc.  Not a chance.  You were describing mass adoption....cost alone will prevent mass adoption beyond 10 years.  People have their cars they just bought and those they will buy over the next decade, they aren't going away that quickly.

Not saying 10 years is accurate but the reason solar panel and electric vehicles predictions were way off is because it relied on human's desire to push social issues. The technology was too expensive and only had an environmentalist appeal for early adopters. Being able to have a self driving car has huge economic and personal benefits. I have long drives multiple times a week for my job, so I would pay a premium for it. You could work, relax, etc. The electric vehicles cost 10k plus to save you 1k in gas every year.

I know you think this is just cutting off a man's balls, but I'm ok with that if my 2 hour commute this morning would've included me preparing for my meeting or reading the paper.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 29, 2015, 12:30:01 PM

Agree with CBB here.   Everything will change, but over a much longer arc.


+1
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GOO on June 29, 2015, 01:10:45 PM
You have it backwards, driverless will cars will be far cheaper, not more expensive.  Human driver cars will see insurance skyrocket as human drivers are a menace and get in the way.  It will be unaffordable to most to insure (especially since most states mandate insurance).

Within two years all new cars will have driver assist functions (cruise control on steroids).  The car will drive itself on the highway.  That is just the beginning.
I am all for driverless cars, driver assisted cars, etc.  Humans are not very good at driving and need some help.  It shouldn't be the most dangerous activity most of us partake in.   For the next 5 to 7 years, we will more of less have to settle for Driver LESS cars (as in the human driver will do less, but still a long way from a driverless car that is completely automated).  More of the autopilot car is what we'll get in the next 5 to 7 years.  I'm looking forward to see what Tesla does in this area since they are out in front, especially with the Gen III vehicle. 

Will there be a google fully automatic car approved in certain cities or something to that effect in 5 years... I would expect so, in CA, but it will be far from something that is common in the USA. 

It will happen, but you won't see a sea change in 10 years.  Those with higher disposable incomes will have driver LESS cars (auto pilot, etc). These cars  won't make up 25% of cars on the road in 10 years... I bet more like 10%. I'll be in the market for one in about 5 years (I tend to buy a new car every 10 years, and I sure expect my next one to have a lot of autopilot features).

But the insurance argument won't fly for most people on the road.  I'm sure you like I have great insurance policies to protect what we have and to pay up if we were to make a mistake and hurt someone while driving.  It is the responsible thing to do.  However, a certain guy in Chicago has made billions selling 25K liability policies that rarely pay up.  Did you notice one of the first things Walker did when he got into office was to approve lowering the minimum insurance requirements to 25K?  I guess money talks.  A lot of bad driving won't make a 25K liability policy go up much, especially when it is sold by a company that basically doesn't pay up anyway even when their insured is at fault.  So, with major lobbying pushes to get mandatory insurance limits way down from anything reasonable, I don't think the insurance cost argument will make a difference.  Wish I was wrong, but that insurance argument is off base and won't be a reason for driverless cars to take off. 
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: martyconlonontherun on June 29, 2015, 01:26:58 PM
For those of us that are reliable, never had an accident, passed the NASCAR road school test....don't need it!

Those are coming far and few between with new technologies subsidizing the drivers bad habits. It will get to the point where it will be self-driving even if we are driving.

Another major benefit to this is speed limits will definitely go up with driverless cars. Between fewer cars on the road and better sensors, I bet the speed limit will be 100+ when the majority of the cars are driverless. Factoring in less traffic, it will cut driving time in half between cities like Milwaukee and Madison.

I think it will be a more interesting battle when laws are made against driving your own car rather then when these driverless cars will become legal.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on June 29, 2015, 01:45:57 PM
Agree with CBB here.   Everything will change, but over a much longer arc.

Driverless cars being possibly "cheaper" is a thin proposition.   The "driverless" tech will be priced at a premium for years, just like GPS was (and still is.)    Leaders like Audi, BMW, Lexus, etc, they're gonna sell you your A4 or 5-series for $40-50k and tack on $10k for the driverless option.  That'll be how it starts.  After 5+ years, the tech will trickle down to the economy cars, but it'll still be an option that increases the price.

And that's just for people who want to buy new cars.  The average age of the US auto fleet is 11.2 years.   Figuring rocket-like adoption rates, like 5% of new cars are driverless, then 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 75, 100% .. just did the math with those rates.. it takes 18 years to replace half the 253m US fleet.  And frankly, my suggested adoption rates are preposterous.  They won't be a third that in the beginning years, making getting to 50, 75, 100 .. way way further out.

None of that factors in the inevitable car accident that kills a family of 6 and a bus full of nuns that give rise to the Luddite party making society rethink the whole robot driver thing.


This is not how it is going to work.  New entrants are going to come in an bankrupt the existing car manufactures.  This is how new technology works.  See the story below.  Google and/or Uber (or Apple) will make the cars and bankrupt the legacy (read slow, beueaucratic and uncreative) auto manufactures.

And you will not buy a driverless car.  You will push a button on your phone to hirer one.  They are trying to make owning a car a thing of the past.



-----------------------

Bill Gates thinks Uber has the best shot at self-driving cars
by  Jonathan Chew
June 25, 2015, 11:28 AM EDT

https://fortune.com/2015/06/25/bill-gates-self-driving-cars/

Driverless cars have become a moonshot project for tech companies around the world, and Microsoft’s MSFT -1.55% Co-founder and world-leading philanthropist Bill Gates believes there’s one company that will rule the space.

In a conversation with Financial Times Editor Lionel Barber at an event in London Wednesday, Gates shared his thoughts on issues ranging from the global economy to robots to Silicon Valley. Gates said a real tipping point for change in driving will come from self-driving cars, calling it “the real rubicon.” And Uber is primed to take the lead, he added.

FT Alphaville writer Izabella Kaminska live-tweeted Gates’ thoughts:

If Gates is correct, it will validate recent moves by Uber to invest in self-driving technology. Earlier this year, Uber announced a partnership with Carnegie Mellon University to create the Uber Advanced Technologies Center in Pittsburgh “to do research and development, primarily in the areas of mapping and vehicle safety and autonomy technology.”

CEO Travis Kalanick has made it no secret that his company sees a future where we drive without our hands on a steering wheel. “The reason Uber could be expensive is because you’re not just paying for the car, you’re paying for the other dude in the car,” Kalanick said in a conference last year. “So the magic there is you basically bring the cost below the cost of ownership for everybody, and then car ownership goes away.”

The move has set Uber up for a battle with Google GOOG -1.54% . Last year, at the Code Conference, the tech giant made public a two-seater, self-driving car after years of research. Both companies, however, will have to battle the public’s perception on giving up control of a car. A survey conducted by NerdWallet found that only 37% of women and around half of men expressed any interest in owning a self-driving vehicle.

Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GOO on June 29, 2015, 02:57:21 PM
For those of us that are reliable, never had an accident, passed the NASCAR road school test....don't need it!

True, if you were the only one on the road. 

But by your reasoning, you don't need other safety enhancements that have come about such as seat belts, air bags, traction control, crumple zones, etc. And we can't all drive Trucks and large SUV's to make us safer, of course, or it negates each other. 

If I were in charge, the mandatory use of some of the autopilot tech would start with semi-trucks (collision avoidance and lane departure, would go a long way since we apparently have given up on actually enforcing rules).
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 29, 2015, 03:10:53 PM
This is not how it is going to work.  New entrants are going to come in an bankrupt the existing car manufactures.  This is how new technology works.  See the story below.  Google and/or Uber (or Apple) will make the cars and bankrupt the legacy (read slow, beueaucratic and uncreative) auto manufactures.

And you will not buy a driverless car.  You will push a button on your phone to hirer one.  They are trying to make owning a car a thing of the past.


And that's a fine theory, and may be what happens.  Except the math I just went through is the same.

You still have 253m cars on the road, with 100m owners, and (guess) 500m "trips" per day that need to happen.  They aren't going to just abandon their automobile investment at a junk yard and start using Uber, driverless or not.

Ford, GM, Audi, BMW .. they aren't going out of business.   They all have driverless research programs.  Not to mention, they have tons of devoted customers.  

You can make a better mousetrap all you want, some people are still gonna buy those wire spring thingies.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GOO on June 29, 2015, 03:12:27 PM
I think you need to just accept that you are going to have to disagree with most of us on the time frame.  Most of us see this happening, but at a slower pace (the tech will be there, but the adoption rate will be slower). This has been hashed to death here, so just accept that we will disagree on the timing/speed of this taking over and selfdriving vehicles being the norm. I look at how slow true smart phone adoption rates were from 2007 on at a sub $200 out of pocket expense as a guide for how slow people are to adopt new tech even at very little cost.  It still amazes me when people pull out a flip phone, but in any crowd there will be someone using one.   Look at EV.  Makes so much sense, but it is very, very slow to catch on.. look at hybrids, why would anyone buy a traditional engine, makes no sense.. but...

Smart phone adoption rates.  Cell phones have been replaced every few years by many since the 1990's, at a very low cost.. yet the adoption rate is slow, cars will be a lot slower unfortunately:

http://www.statista.com/statistics/201183/forecast-of-smartphone-penetration-in-the-us/

This is not how it is going to work.  New entrants are going to come in an bankrupt the existing car manufactures.  This is how new technology works.  See the story below.  Google and/or Uber (or Apple) will make the cars and bankrupt the legacy (read slow, beueaucratic and uncreative) auto manufactures.

And you will not buy a driverless car.  You will push a button on your phone to hirer one.  They are trying to make owning a car a thing of the past.



-----------------------
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GOO on June 29, 2015, 03:16:00 PM
And that's a fine theory, and may be what happens.  Except the math I just went through is the same.

You still have 253m cars on the road, with 100m owners, and (guess) 500m "trips" per day that need to happen.  They aren't going to just abandon their automobile investment at a junk yard and start using Uber, driverless or not.

Ford, GM, Audi, BMW .. they aren't going out of business.   They all have driverless research programs.  Not to mention, they have tons of devoted customers.  

You can make a better mousetrap all you want, some people are still gonna buy those wire spring thingies.
Well said.  Some traditional car manufacturers may go under, but this is not RIM versus Apple/Google.  The current traditional car companies are on board, as are dozens of other competing tech players/developers who will license the tech.  Ford has already said they see a day when they sell fewer cars (at least on a percentage of population basis, due to tech and car share, etc). 
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on June 29, 2015, 07:54:39 PM
Here is the timeline ....

5 years tens of thousands of driverless cars are on the road.

7 years approaching a million driverless cars.  

At this point we have years and hundreds of million of miles of real data.  The car shows it is more efficient, cheaper and far more safer.  Dense Urban areas like central London, downtown Manhattan , San Fran and the loop river north area of Chicago see a movement to ban drivers.  They are seen as slow inefficient, expensive and dangerous.

Once this happens, the driver car takes on a different view.  It is a giant waste of money.  Other than the collector cars, the 3,000 pound hunk of metal in your garage is viewed as ultimately having a value of zero.  New car sales plummet because no one wants to buy a car that is going to have no value in a few years.  Human drivers are started to be looked upon like smokers.

So yes in 10 years their will still be hundreds of millions of driver cars on the road.  But like the Taxi company today, they will be seen as a dead industry with no long-term value and we are all demanding the new technology.

Maybe I should explain myself regarding taxis ... the game is over, car-sharing companies like Uber have won.  Sure traditional taxis will be around many more years (like horse drawn wagons existed on city streets until the 1940s) but we are watching the final convulsions of an industry that is about to expire.  We are not going back the other way to traditional taxis.  CA ruling they are employees is going to accelerate this process.  Uber is moving as fast as humanly possible to fire every driver and get driverless on the road.  CA ruling is going to make this happen faster.

Regarding the major auto makers.  They all go bankrupt every generation or so now.  GM and Chrysler being the last.  The rest are owned by the government and are bloated an inefficient.  The Telsa electric car and non-dealer selling model is case in point that they "don't really get it" and are structured to sell something that will no longer be demanded.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 29, 2015, 08:23:09 PM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZwA2gnb888Q/Tm-rdnlZXcI/AAAAAAAAAn0/xlSIaossS4E/s320/conan.jpg)
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2015, 10:06:33 PM
This is not how it is going to work.  New entrants are going to come in an bankrupt the existing car manufactures.  This is how new technology works.  See the story below.  Google and/or Uber (or Apple) will make the cars and bankrupt the legacy (read slow, beueaucratic and uncreative) auto manufactures.

And you will not buy a driverless car.  You will push a button on your phone to hirer one.  They are trying to make owning a car a thing of the past.



-----------------------

Bill Gates thinks Uber has the best shot at self-driving cars
by  Jonathan Chew
June 25, 2015, 11:28 AM EDT

https://fortune.com/2015/06/25/bill-gates-self-driving-cars/

Driverless cars have become a moonshot project for tech companies around the world, and Microsoft’s MSFT -1.55% Co-founder and world-leading philanthropist Bill Gates believes there’s one company that will rule the space.

In a conversation with Financial Times Editor Lionel Barber at an event in London Wednesday, Gates shared his thoughts on issues ranging from the global economy to robots to Silicon Valley. Gates said a real tipping point for change in driving will come from self-driving cars, calling it “the real rubicon.” And Uber is primed to take the lead, he added.

FT Alphaville writer Izabella Kaminska live-tweeted Gates’ thoughts:

If Gates is correct, it will validate recent moves by Uber to invest in self-driving technology. Earlier this year, Uber announced a partnership with Carnegie Mellon University to create the Uber Advanced Technologies Center in Pittsburgh “to do research and development, primarily in the areas of mapping and vehicle safety and autonomy technology.”

CEO Travis Kalanick has made it no secret that his company sees a future where we drive without our hands on a steering wheel. “The reason Uber could be expensive is because you’re not just paying for the car, you’re paying for the other dude in the car,” Kalanick said in a conference last year. “So the magic there is you basically bring the cost below the cost of ownership for everybody, and then car ownership goes away.”

The move has set Uber up for a battle with Google GOOG -1.54% . Last year, at the Code Conference, the tech giant made public a two-seater, self-driving car after years of research. Both companies, however, will have to battle the public’s perception on giving up control of a car. A survey conducted by NerdWallet found that only 37% of women and around half of men expressed any interest in owning a self-driving vehicle.



Fine, but not in the timeframes you are talking about.  Not going to happen.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2015, 10:13:29 PM
True, if you were the only one on the road. 

But by your reasoning, you don't need other safety enhancements that have come about such as seat belts, air bags, traction control, crumple zones, etc. And we can't all drive Trucks and large SUV's to make us safer, of course, or it negates each other. 

If I were in charge, the mandatory use of some of the autopilot tech would start with semi-trucks (collision avoidance and lane departure, would go a long way since we apparently have given up on actually enforcing rules).

I don't think that is a proper extrapolation of my reasoning.  You see, I'm a very good driver, but there are a lot of people on the road that are not.  Thus I still need the enhancements because I don't know what the other clown is going to do.

This whole thing has a long long way to go.  Hilltopper is right that it will be in the high end cars at first.  Thing is, a lot of people LIKE TO DRIVE.  Sure, it will be nice to have in the commute, but a completely driverless car would just suck for a lot of people.  I would love to run the marketing campaign against this and promote the freedom of getting behind the wheel, feel the power, the control, the excitement. 

At any rate, I'm not too worried about this.  Its nice, it will be a nice feature for some, but the adoption rate is so far away.  Bill Gates, well we'll see.  If he hadn't been convinced more than a few times about computers and operating systems, he would have gone down the road in his own field, but smart people told him he was wrong and he was smart enough to listen.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2015, 10:16:12 PM
You have it backwards, driverless will cars will be far cheaper, not more expensive.  Human driver cars will see insurance skyrocket as human drivers are a menace and get in the way.  It will be unaffordable to most to insure (especially since most states mandate insurance).

Within two years all new cars will have driver assist functions (cruise control on steroids).  The car will drive itself on the highway.  That is just the beginning.

So in two years ALL new cars will have this driver assist.....ALL NEW CARS.   

Do you want to fill out the charity donation now or later on this one?  Wager for charitable donation?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2015, 10:19:23 PM
Here is the timeline ....

5 years tens of thousands of driverless cars are on the road.

7 years approaching a million driverless cars.  

At this point we have years and hundreds of million of miles of real data.  The car shows it is more efficient, cheaper and far more safer.  Dense Urban areas like central London, downtown Manhattan , San Fran and the loop river north area of Chicago see a movement to ban drivers.  They are seen as slow inefficient, expensive and dangerous.

Once this happens, the driver car takes on a different view.  It is a giant waste of money.  Other than the collector cars, the 3,000 pound hunk of metal in your garage is viewed as ultimately having a value of zero.  New car sales plummet because no one wants to buy a car that is going to have no value in a few years.  Human drivers are started to be looked upon like smokers.

So yes in 10 years their will still be hundreds of millions of driver cars on the road.  But like the Taxi company today, they will be seen as a dead industry with no long-term value and we are all demanding the new technology.

Maybe I should explain myself regarding taxis ... the game is over, car-sharing companies like Uber have won.  Sure traditional taxis will be around many more years (like horse drawn wagons existed on city streets until the 1940s) but we are watching the final convulsions of an industry that is about to expire.  We are not going back the other way to traditional taxis.  CA ruling they are employees is going to accelerate this process.  Uber is moving as fast as humanly possible to fire every driver and get driverless on the road.  CA ruling is going to make this happen faster.

Regarding the major auto makers.  They all go bankrupt every generation or so now.  GM and Chrysler being the last.  The rest are owned by the government and are bloated an inefficient.  The Telsa electric car and non-dealer selling model is case in point that they "don't really get it" and are structured to sell something that will no longer be demanded.

Feels like you have changed your tune with this post.

You realize that Tesla isn't even profitable with their cars...yes?  Not until AT LEAST 2020

http://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-china-sales-declined-significantly-ceo-says-1421186754
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on June 30, 2015, 04:49:43 AM
Feels like you have changed your tune with this post.

You realize that Tesla isn't even profitable with their cars...yes?  Not until AT LEAST 2020

http://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-china-sales-declined-significantly-ceo-says-1421186754

GM makes 2.2 million cars, market value $53 billion
Telsa makes 45,000 cars, market value $33 billion

(http://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/screen-shot-2014-04-01-at-12-32-46-pm.png?w=932&h=728)

And Uber, which is private, has a valuation of $40 to $50 billion now on just the hope they will make Bill Gates prediction true, they will have a driverless car soon.

Markets look forward and this is sending a loud message that the old way of doing things is done.  Every car traditional car maker knows it and they are scared out of their mind.  All the CEOs of these companies talk about is electric and driverless.  Mercedes is so afraid of driverless that they are running a multimillion dollar ad campaign suggesting that Mercedes already has driverless cars on the road now (they don't).  

http://www.youtube.com/v/4pNH-BaCUHE

These commercials are targeted to investors to not abandon them. It is a sign of panic about the future and they are unprepared for it. (Tesla and Uber don't run commercials telling you how great they are)

It's all about looking forward.  And when everyone realizes that driverless cars will be reality, driver cars implode.    That is the point that matters, not when we go to 100% adopt, that will never happen.  

So yes in 10 years things will be dramatically different.

Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 30, 2015, 09:00:43 AM
GM makes 2.2 million cars, market value $53 billion
Telsa makes 45,000 cars, market value $33 billion



That's nice.  I was talking about profitability.  Market values are great, they are also based on irrational exuberance as well.

What'sApp was valued at $19billion.  AirBnb at $10billion.   Stocks like Netflix, Tesla, Solar City, etc, are trading on dreams, on promises, not on reality.  Now, maybe they get there and some of them will, but they are based on potential.  Stocks can be valued many different ways, and they are not uniformly valued from one company to the next.

A reminder, market valuations were absurd in 1929 and in the mid 2000's.   

Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on June 30, 2015, 09:49:42 AM
That's nice.  I was talking about profitability.  Market values are great, they are also based on irrational exuberance as well.

What'sApp was valued at $19billion.  AirBnb at $10billion.   Stocks like Netflix, Tesla, Solar City, etc, are trading on dreams, on promises, not on reality.  Now, maybe they get there and some of them will, but they are based on potential.  Stocks can be valued many different ways, and they are not uniformly valued from one company to the next.

A reminder, market valuations were absurd in 1929 and in the mid 2000's.  

They are growth stocks that are investing heavily and have huge revenue growth rates (over 300%/year for Uber).  Profitability is one metric that works well for established companies, not necessarily for these companies at this stage in their maturity.  

The larger point is investors believe in these companies, and not so much in established companies.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: tower912 on July 21, 2015, 04:55:35 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/07/21/hack-connected-car-raises-alarm-over-driver-safety/30462317/

Better secure that network. 
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: MUWarrior2007 on July 22, 2015, 07:58:01 AM
But...but...but...  This technology will be used by EVERYONE in their self driving cars in 5-years and anyone who thinks differently is a dolt...  Right, Heisenberg...? 

http://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/

NOT GONNA HAPPEN ANY TIME SOON
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on July 22, 2015, 04:32:14 PM
But...but...but...  This technology will be used by EVERYONE in their self driving cars in 5-years and anyone who thinks differently is a dolt...  Right, Heisenberg...? 

http://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/

NOT GONNA HAPPEN ANY TIME SOON

Please note that they hacked an existing car, not some futurist self-driving car. 

This has nothing to do with self-driving cars.  In fact self-driving cars can be programmed to prevent the car from doing something suicidal.  You cannot. 

Also note that hackers need to have physical access to the car and its computer system to hack it.  They cannot randomly pick a car driving down the street and hack into it.

Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 23, 2015, 10:37:03 AM

Also note that hackers need to have physical access to the car and its computer system to hack it.  They cannot randomly pick a car driving down the street and hack into it yet.


fify
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Benny B on July 23, 2015, 11:13:13 AM
Anyone with access to your vehicle's OBDII port can reflash your car's ECU in a manner that would essentially blow-up your engine once it hits fourth gear.  And this is with readily-available equipment and just a couple hours of browsing the interwebs.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown on July 23, 2015, 02:46:19 PM
I actually agree with Chicos on this one.   I will be one of the last holdouts for driving myself.   I will go absolutely insane if I am sitting in a car going the exact same speed as all of the other cars.  The idea of a journey being the same as an amusement park ride where all of the cars stay the exact same distance apart is nauseating.    I enjoy the occasional random detour down the road less traveled.   The one with curves and hills.   Or scenic vistas.    Getting in a car, punching in a destination,  and then just sitting back and napping or surfing the net has absolutely no appeal.      I accept that it may happen in my lifetime, but I cannot imagine celebrating it.
I think the idea is that, once cars are autonomous, they will also be designed less like a cockpit and more like a living room.  You wouldn't need windows; you could sleep, read, nap.... sign me up for that any day of the week.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Benny B on July 23, 2015, 02:57:15 PM
I think the idea is that, once cars are autonomous, they will also be designed less like a cockpit and more like a living room.  You wouldn't need windows; you could sleep, read, nap.... sign me up for that any day of the week.

People who take the train to work can do that five days a week.  Not only can you pay for public commuting costs pre-tax (at least here in Illinois you can), you can bill that time to a client if you're in such a line of work.

Just watch... lawyers are going to be the first ones aboard the driverless car bandwagon in droves.  Even the doomsayers have to see the advantage in that.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 23, 2015, 07:05:16 PM
I think the idea is that, once cars are autonomous, they will also be designed less like a cockpit and more like a living room.  You wouldn't need windows; you could sleep, read, nap.... sign me up for that any day of the week.

What's with you youngsters always wanting to nap and sleep.  Maybe it's me, but I find when I'm on a train I get bored, same as on a plane.  Become tired, and lethargic.  Able to do some work, but only to a point.  When I'm off the train or plane, I'm not exactly refreshed.  I enjoy driving, it keeps my mind focused, alert.


I want my hands on the wheel, foot on the gas, wind in my hair, going where I want to go at my pace. Live life a bit.  I get the advantages, and when this is all ready 20+ years from now and I'm long since retired, that will be fine. 
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 23, 2015, 07:53:22 PM
What's with you youngsters always wanting to nap and sleep.  Maybe it's me, but I find when I'm on a train I get bored, same as on a plane.  Become tired, and lethargic.  Able to do some work, but only to a point.  When I'm off the train or plane, I'm not exactly refreshed.  I enjoy driving, it keeps my mind focused, alert.

I want my hands on the wheel, foot on the gas, wind in my hair, going where I want to go at my pace. Live life a bit.  I get the advantages, and when this is all ready 20+ years from now and I'm long since retired, that will be fine.

Agreed.  I just got a new VW GTI with a 6-speed manual transmission.  I don't want to nap when I'm in it.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on July 24, 2015, 09:44:27 AM
What's with you youngsters always wanting to nap and sleep.  Maybe it's me, but I find when I'm on a train I get bored, same as on a plane.  Become tired, and lethargic.  Able to do some work, but only to a point.  When I'm off the train or plane, I'm not exactly refreshed.  I enjoy driving, it keeps my mind focused, alert.


I want my hands on the wheel, foot on the gas, wind in my hair, going where I want to go at my pace. Live life a bit.  I get the advantages, and when this is all ready 20+ years from now and I'm long since retired, that will be fine.

You get lethargic on a plane because it pressurized to 8000 feet.

So wind do you have in hair when sitting at a standstill on the 405?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on July 24, 2015, 09:45:56 AM
Agreed.  I just got a new VW GTI with a 6-speed manual transmission.  I don't want to nap when I'm in it.

You do realize that many think this is the description of an efficient killing machine.  And the ranks that think this will grow.

In a few years saying this will be as socially acceptable as saying you want to smoke in public.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 24, 2015, 09:49:51 AM
You get lethargic on a plane because it pressurized to 8000 feet.

So wind do you have in hair when sitting at a standstill on the 405?

I get lethargic on a train at ground level.  I want my mind stimulated.

I avoid the 405 like the plague, rarely if ever on it.  Point is, on the weekends, at night, early in the morning, I do want that wind in my hair.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 24, 2015, 09:50:57 AM
You do realize that many think this is the description of an efficient killing machine.  And the ranks that think this will grow.

In a few years saying this will be as socially acceptable as saying you want to smoke in public.

Those people have a problem then.....those are the same people that think guns kill people or exhaling CO2 is pollution.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on July 24, 2015, 10:04:16 AM
I get lethargic on a train at ground level.  I want my mind stimulated.

I avoid the 405 like the plague, rarely if ever on it.  Point is, on the weekends, at night, early in the morning, I do want that wind in my hair.

You will always be able to recreationally drive, until the end of time.  Just like you can recreationally ride a horse until the end of time.

But having human killing machines in charge of basic transportation is what is going to change.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on July 24, 2015, 10:05:59 AM
Those people have a problem then.....those are the same people that think guns kill people or exhaling CO2 is pollution.

They are correct ... human error is the overwhelming reason auto accidents kill 40,000/yr and hurt 2 million. 

Driverless cars, when fully implemented, will drastically reduce these numbers.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 24, 2015, 10:14:17 AM
You do realize that many think this is the description of an efficient killing machine.  And the ranks that think this will grow.

In a few years saying this will be as socially acceptable as saying you want to smoke in public.

And a simple software glitch or smart hacker could turn driverless cars into even more efficient killing machines.

Isn't technology great?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Benny B on July 24, 2015, 11:08:38 AM
And a simple software glitch or smart hacker could turn driverless cars into even more efficient killing machines.

Isn't technology great?

Our airplanes and trains essentially run on computers already.  Why go after low-hanging fruit when there's a juicy hacker target 30,000 feet in the air.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 24, 2015, 11:11:09 AM
Our airplanes and trains essentially run on computers already.  Why go after low-hanging fruit when there's a juicy hacker target 30,000 feet in the air.

How many people drive in a given day?

How many people fly in a given day?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Benny B on July 24, 2015, 11:42:08 AM
How many people drive in a given day?

How many people fly in a given day?

So a hacker takes control of your car, you hit the emergency engine cut-off switch (or something along those lines), and the car comes to a stop.  What happens then?

Hack into an airplane, and it doesn't have the luxury of such a fail-safe.  Yet no one seems to have done it yet (don't post a link to the guy who supposedly went through the plane's entertainment system... that's complete BS).


Do you honestly think that the designers here haven't already thought about this?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 24, 2015, 11:54:48 AM
So a hacker takes control of your car, you hit the emergency engine cut-off switch (or something along those lines), and the car comes to a stop.  What happens then?

Hack into an airplane, and it doesn't have the luxury of such a fail-safe.  Yet no one seems to have done it yet (don't post a link to the guy who supposedly went through the plane's entertainment system... that's complete BS).

Do you honestly think that the designers here haven't already thought about this?

When the car stops in the middle of a freeway, it gets rear ended by a semi.

As to your other question, I believe they've thought of it.  No, I don't think they've solved it.

By the way, those computerized commercial aircraft you mentioned?  They each cost millions of dollars, so it's worth putting a few hundred thousand each into state of the art security.  Think a several hundred thousand dollar Ford Focus would sell?  Also note that the computerized aircraft still have trained pilots aboard, and controls for them to take over.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on July 24, 2015, 12:15:44 PM
Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV is recalling about 1.4 million cars and trucks equipped with radios that are vulnerable to hacking.

The company said in a statement it has blocked unauthorized remote access to certain vehicles systems with a network-level improvement on Thursday.

Fiat Chrysler was already distributing software to insulate connected vehicles from illegal remote manipulation after Wired magazine published a story about software programmers who were able to take over a Jeep Cherokee being driven on a Missouri highway. Fiat Chrysler reiterated that it’s not aware of any real-world unauthorized remote hack into any of its vehicles.

It stressed that no defect was found and that it’s conducting the campaign out of “an abundance of caution.”

The recall covers almost a million more models than those initially identified as needing a software patch. The action includes 2015 versions of Ram pickups, Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee SUVs, Dodge Challenger sports coupes and Viper supercars.

Affected customers will receive a USB device to upgrade their vehicle’s software with additional safety features, beyond the network-level measure.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 24, 2015, 12:23:21 PM
You will always be able to recreationally drive, until the end of time.  Just like you can recreationally ride a horse until the end of time.

But having human killing machines in charge of basic transportation is what is going to change.

And the more and more people that don't get the practice behind the wheel because they are being shuttled around, will mean they are even worse driving recreationally.   The transition will be wonderful to see.

I'm all for automation and technology.  It's part of my daily job. I'm all for safety, but I'm also one of those people that doesn't like to give up a ton of control over my life either.  Perhaps it is because I live in a car culture in California, but driving is freedom to me. Part of that freedom is the control of the car with hands and feet.  I'm one of those people that loves driving manual transmission cars and it pains me that 75% of people today have no clue how to do it.  That is driving!
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on July 24, 2015, 01:14:39 PM
And a simple software glitch or smart hacker could turn driverless cars into even more efficient killing machines.

Isn't technology great?

How many humans killed someone on the road in the time you took to write this fantasy?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 24, 2015, 01:24:42 PM
How many humans killed someone on the road in the time you took to write this fantasy?

I have $10,000 that says your fantasy of driverless cars becoming the majority of vehicles on the road within 5 years doesn't happen.

Willing to put your money where your mouth is?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GOO on July 24, 2015, 01:28:54 PM

So yes in 10 years things will be dramatically different.


You seem to be softening on your time frame.  I'd call it becoming more realistic.  It will be noticeable in 10 years, but it will still be a long way from eliminating or even getting to 25% of cars on the road being self driving. 
I for one can' wait and completely believe this is needed to make the roads safer.  Most dangerous thing most of us do in life is get in a car.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 24, 2015, 01:30:01 PM

You seem to be softening on your time frame.  I'd call it becoming more realistic.  It will be noticeable in 10 years, but it will still be a long way from eliminating or even getting to 25% of cars on the road being self driving. 
I for one can' wait and completely believe this is needed to make the roads safer.  Most dangerous thing most of us do in life is get in a car.


I wonder if his backpedaling is manual or computer-driven.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 24, 2015, 02:01:26 PM
If you want to make the bet for 10 years, I'm still in.  Hello?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on July 24, 2015, 02:08:43 PM
If you want to make the bet for 10 years, I'm still in.  Hello?

Yes,

Here is my timeline.  What are you taking the otherside of?

Here is my timeline (from page 4) ....

5 years tens of thousands of driverless cars are on the road.

7 years approaching a million driverless cars. 

At this point we have years and hundreds of million of miles of real data.  The car shows it is more efficient, cheaper and far more safer.  Dense Urban areas like central London, downtown Manhattan , San Fran and the loop river north area of Chicago see a movement to ban drivers.  They are seen as slow inefficient, expensive and dangerous.

Once this happens, the driver car takes on a different view.  It is a giant waste of money.  Other than the collector cars, the 3,000 pound hunk of metal in your garage is viewed as ultimately having a value of zero.  New car sales plummet because no one wants to buy a car that is going to have no value in a few years.  Human drivers are started to be looked upon like smokers.

So yes in 10 years their will still be hundreds of millions of driver cars on the road.  But like the Taxi company today, they will be seen as a dead industry with no long-term value and we are all demanding the new technology.

Maybe I should explain myself regarding taxis ... the game is over, car-sharing companies like Uber have won.  Sure traditional taxis will be around many more years (like horse drawn wagons existed on city streets until the 1940s) but we are watching the final convulsions of an industry that is about to expire.  We are not going back the other way to traditional taxis.  CA ruling they are employees is going to accelerate this process.  Uber is moving as fast as humanly possible to fire every driver and get driverless on the road.  CA ruling is going to make this happen faster.

Regarding the major auto makers.  They all go bankrupt every generation or so now.  GM and Chrysler being the last.  The rest are owned by the government and are bloated an inefficient.  The Telsa electric car and non-dealer selling model is case in point that they "don't really get it" and are structured to sell something that will no longer be demanded.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GooooMarquette on July 24, 2015, 02:20:00 PM
Yes,

Here is my timeline.  What are you taking the otherside of?

Here is my timeline (from page 4) ....

5 years tens of thousands of driverless cars are on the road.

7 years approaching a million driverless cars. 

At this point we have years and hundreds of million of miles of real data.  The car shows it is more efficient, cheaper and far more safer.  Dense Urban areas like central London, downtown Manhattan , San Fran and the loop river north area of Chicago see a movement to ban drivers.  They are seen as slow inefficient, expensive and dangerous.

Once this happens, the driver car takes on a different view.  It is a giant waste of money.  Other than the collector cars, the 3,000 pound hunk of metal in your garage is viewed as ultimately having a value of zero.  New car sales plummet because no one wants to buy a car that is going to have no value in a few years.  Human drivers are started to be looked upon like smokers.

So yes in 10 years their will still be hundreds of millions of driver cars on the road.  But like the Taxi company today, they will be seen as a dead industry with no long-term value and we are all demanding the new technology.

Maybe I should explain myself regarding taxis ... the game is over, car-sharing companies like Uber have won.  Sure traditional taxis will be around many more years (like horse drawn wagons existed on city streets until the 1940s) but we are watching the final convulsions of an industry that is about to expire.  We are not going back the other way to traditional taxis.  CA ruling they are employees is going to accelerate this process.  Uber is moving as fast as humanly possible to fire every driver and get driverless on the road.  CA ruling is going to make this happen faster.

Regarding the major auto makers.  They all go bankrupt every generation or so now.  GM and Chrysler being the last.  The rest are owned by the government and are bloated an inefficient.  The Telsa electric car and non-dealer selling model is case in point that they "don't really get it" and are structured to sell something that will no longer be demanded.


Your criteria are hopelessly vague.  Mine were clear and absolute.  Only an idiot would bet on vague....

Glad we agree I don't have to worry about my GTI anytime soon.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 24, 2015, 02:21:22 PM
I get lethargic on a train at ground level.  I want my mind stimulated.

I avoid the 405 like the plague, rarely if ever on it.  Point is, on the weekends, at night, early in the morning, I do want that wind in my hair.



Then try viewin' YouPorn, hey?
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 24, 2015, 09:28:43 PM
Yes,

Here is my timeline.  What are you taking the otherside of?

Here is my timeline (from page 4) ....

5 years tens of thousands of driverless cars are on the road.

7 years approaching a million driverless cars. 

At this point we have years and hundreds of million of miles of real data.  The car shows it is more efficient, cheaper and far more safer.  Dense Urban areas like central London, downtown Manhattan , San Fran and the loop river north area of Chicago see a movement to ban drivers.  They are seen as slow inefficient, expensive and dangerous.

Once this happens, the driver car takes on a different view.  It is a giant waste of money.  Other than the collector cars, the 3,000 pound hunk of metal in your garage is viewed as ultimately having a value of zero.  New car sales plummet because no one wants to buy a car that is going to have no value in a few years.  Human drivers are started to be looked upon like smokers.

So yes in 10 years their will still be hundreds of millions of driver cars on the road.  But like the Taxi company today, they will be seen as a dead industry with no long-term value and we are all demanding the new technology.

Maybe I should explain myself regarding taxis ... the game is over, car-sharing companies like Uber have won.  Sure traditional taxis will be around many more years (like horse drawn wagons existed on city streets until the 1940s) but we are watching the final convulsions of an industry that is about to expire.  We are not going back the other way to traditional taxis.  CA ruling they are employees is going to accelerate this process.  Uber is moving as fast as humanly possible to fire every driver and get driverless on the road.  CA ruling is going to make this happen faster.

Regarding the major auto makers.  They all go bankrupt every generation or so now.  GM and Chrysler being the last.  The rest are owned by the government and are bloated an inefficient.  The Telsa electric car and non-dealer selling model is case in point that they "don't really get it" and are structured to sell something that will no longer be demanded.


Define millions and I'm in.  Charity bet. 
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 29, 2015, 09:44:29 PM
Yes,

Here is my timeline.  What are you taking the otherside of?

Here is my timeline (from page 4) ....

5 years tens of thousands of driverless cars are on the road.

7 years approaching a million driverless cars. 

At this point we have years and hundreds of million of miles of real data.  The car shows it is more efficient, cheaper and far more safer.  Dense Urban areas like central London, downtown Manhattan , San Fran and the loop river north area of Chicago see a movement to ban drivers.  They are seen as slow inefficient, expensive and dangerous.

Once this happens, the driver car takes on a different view.  It is a giant waste of money.  Other than the collector cars, the 3,000 pound hunk of metal in your garage is viewed as ultimately having a value of zero.  New car sales plummet because no one wants to buy a car that is going to have no value in a few years.  Human drivers are started to be looked upon like smokers.

So yes in 10 years their will still be hundreds of millions of driver cars on the road.  But like the Taxi company today, they will be seen as a dead industry with no long-term value and we are all demanding the new technology.

Maybe I should explain myself regarding taxis ... the game is over, car-sharing companies like Uber have won.  Sure traditional taxis will be around many more years (like horse drawn wagons existed on city streets until the 1940s) but we are watching the final convulsions of an industry that is about to expire.  We are not going back the other way to traditional taxis.  CA ruling they are employees is going to accelerate this process.  Uber is moving as fast as humanly possible to fire every driver and get driverless on the road.  CA ruling is going to make this happen faster.

Regarding the major auto makers.  They all go bankrupt every generation or so now.  GM and Chrysler being the last.  The rest are owned by the government and are bloated an inefficient.  The Telsa electric car and non-dealer selling model is case in point that they "don't really get it" and are structured to sell something that will no longer be demanded.


http://www.businessinsider.com/report-10-million-self-driving-cars-will-be-on-the-road-by-2020-2015-5

You might find this interesting.  They believe a true driverless car won't even be ready until 2019.  Now, it all comes down to definitions of driverless and features that are self driving.

I believe they correctly point out the pitfalls of the regulations, insurance, liabilities, etc.

At any rate, I thought you might enjoy their projections that came out today.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on July 29, 2015, 09:53:44 PM
Thanks, I had not seen this

(http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/5564bcf16da8112458ee93ba-960/sdc%20installed%20base.png)
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 29, 2015, 09:58:41 PM
Thanks, I had not seen this

(http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/5564bcf16da8112458ee93ba-960/sdc%20installed%20base.png)

Note the title, however...."self driving FEATURES", this is far different than fully autonomous cars which as many of us have argued and I think the article confirms, is a long way off.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: Tugg Speedman on July 29, 2015, 10:22:06 PM
Tesla has introduced many new ideas to the "hopelessly behind in thinking" auto industry.  In addition to the electric car, they also have a direct selling model (no dealer network) and, most important for this conversation, is the upgradable car.   Telsa cars are like your computer, you have an LTE account on your car and they are constantly sending you upgrades, improvements, patches and so on.

Current legacy (stubbornly bureaucratic) car makers sell you a car that is forever frozen in time.  You cannot upgrade, change any features and even getting a new version of the map can be hard. 

(Car makers have to end their stupid NAV systems.  Just put Google maps and an LTE connection in all their cars.  They will never have a NAV system as good as Google Maps ... they need to stop trying.  But I digress.)

Every car maker pays a heavy price for this as they have to spend millions in recalls,  especially the current one from Jeep this week.  The car can be hacked through the entertainment system.  Jeep will spend tens of millions having everyone bring their car so they can plug a USB stick into it to run a software update.  Telsa has someone push a keyboard button at HQ to accomplish the same thing for all cars in one afternoon.

The self-autonomous cars will be more upgradable.  So many of those cars will start off as "semi" and though upgrade, enhancements and patches that same car will evolve over time into something closer to "fully."

This will make the definition of "semi" and "fully" even harder to determine.

------------

Windows 10 was released today.  They finally get it! (All it took was their UWM CEO to bring them into the modern age!)  It is no longer considered an operating system.  It is consider a "service" that they constantly refine, upgrade and fix.  You subscribe to that service (which, in the case of Windows 10, is currently free).  Most software is now sold this way.  You don't by version x of something.  You subscribe to the service and they constantly tinker and improve it. 

The car will (finally!) be next to get this kind of thinking/business model.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 29, 2015, 11:13:00 PM
AT&T has LTE agreements with GM, Audi, Honda, etc in every day cars today.  I know....I'm working on it.   ;)
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: GOO on July 30, 2015, 09:45:57 AM
Thanks, I had not seen this

(http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/5564bcf16da8112458ee93ba-960/sdc%20installed%20base.png)

You do realize that the chart you posted proves the point I've tried to make and many others in this thread.  This won't happen as fast as you originally claimed.  Most of us are all for it.  We want it to happen fast, but it simply won't happen fast.  It will first be for those that like tech and safety and have money to pay a little extra for it.  There are over 250M cars on the road now, the chart is a big increase for a category but a tiny percentage of what is on the road.

The point being this is all great stuff and when I get a new car in 5 years it WILL have self driving features.  It will be a safety and convenience priority for me.  But I also am lucky enough to be able to pay cash and paying 5K additional isn't a big deal.  But since the average car on the road is over 11 years old, the number of self driving cars on the road will be a very small percentage in 5 years.  Fully autonomous cars will be few and far between and very few in 5 years as a percentage of cars on the road. Maybe some cities that start to promote fully autonomous in lieu of taxies/buses, but that will still be mostly small scale trial stuff, if my guess. 

I think you've come back towards the middle on how fast this is going to happen.  For some it will happen fast.  But the 10 year old car I trade-in or sell when I get a new one isn't going to the junk yard.. it will be going to someone else who can't afford or doesn't buy new/newer cars. 

http://fortune.com/2015/07/29/cars-average-age/

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-ihs-automotive-average-age-car-20140609-story.html
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 13, 2021, 02:35:09 PM
Yes,

Here is my timeline.  What are you taking the otherside of?

Here is my timeline (from page 4) ....

5 years tens of thousands of driverless cars are on the road.

7 years approaching a million driverless cars. 


Hmm .. don't think these predictions are coming up roses.

https://thenextweb.com/news/why-truly-driverless-cars-may-never-happen
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 13, 2021, 02:47:35 PM
Hmm .. don't think these predictions are coming up roses.

https://thenextweb.com/news/why-truly-driverless-cars-may-never-happen


Nice!
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 13, 2021, 03:57:53 PM
Hmm .. don't think these predictions are coming up roses.

https://thenextweb.com/news/why-truly-driverless-cars-may-never-happen

Excellent use of zombie thread
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: tower912 on June 13, 2021, 05:54:54 PM
Mods with a grade A hoopaloop.
Title: Re: Google Self-driving car
Post by: mu_hilltopper on June 14, 2021, 05:18:27 PM
I don't remember a lot of threads .. but this one I did.