MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: DomJamesToTheBasket on May 15, 2015, 06:46:40 AM
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This should be an interesting year for MU and Henry. If HS was still eligible for draft, he would've been a lock for the 1st round this year......given his length and skill set, I think he would be looking at lotto.
The most reputable mock draft has him going #5 next year
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2016/
Personally, I don't think he will be that good as a Freshman. Solid, but Freshman take their lumps. Regardless, I see him as a "one and done".......every NBA team knows him.....legit NBA center size with wing skills and athleticism to boot.......NBA scouts at EVERY game this year
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We'll see. While most top-10 recruits seem like one and dones, every year there are guys that come back. Justin Jackson and Theo Pinson (2014), the Harrisons and Dakari Johnson (2013), Kaleb Tarczewski and Cam Ridley (2012), James McAdoo and Adonis Thomas (2011), Harrison Barnes and Jared Sullinger (and others in 2010). Maybe Henry goes, I'd say it's probably a 60% chance. But if he doesn't adjust as quickly as we hope or simply needs polish on his game, maybe he'll end up staying. He wouldn't be the first and certainly not the last.
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Freshmen do not have to be that good. NBA drafts young players based on their expected improvement. Seniors have to be very good to get drafted.
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I agree Brew. I just hope WOJO isn't a dick and sits him for Frosh mistakes. HE is one of the highest rated recruits to ever come to MU. I will be very disappointed if HE doesn't get at least 30 minutes.
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Freshmen do not have to be that good. NBA drafts young players based on their expected improvement. Seniors have to be very good to get drafted.
EXACTLY
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Legit question, but I have come to the conclusion that trying to predict what an 18-20 year old kid will do is an exercise in futility.
I thought Dominic was gone for sure after his freshman year, but he stayed four years. I thought Jerel was gone for sure after his junior year, but he stayed and made AA. I thought Vander was back for sure after his junior year, and he left.
Add that to Brew's list of "sure" one-and-dones who stayed, and my plan is just to enjoy watching Henry as long as he is here.
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Legit question, but I have come to the conclusion that trying to predict what an 18-20 year old kid will do is an exercise in futility.
I thought Dominic was gone for sure after his freshman year, but he stayed four years. I thought Jerel was gone for sure after his junior year, but he stayed and made AA. I thought Vander was back for sure after his junior year, and he left.
Add that to Brew's list of "sure" one-and-dones who stayed, and my plan is just to enjoy watching Henry as long as he is here.
It pains me to say it as a diehard, but Dominic should've left for the NBA after his Freshman year....he would've been a 1st round pick and made a few million.....probably a late 1st
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Freshmen do not have to be that good. NBA drafts young players based on their expected improvement. Seniors have to be very good to get drafted.
But if a guy goes to college and doesn't look like the player you thought he was, he could easily not get drafted. Henry could come in and put up 12/6 and look like a surefire lottery pick, or put up 12/6 and hear that he needs another year to guarantee a first-round pick. It will depend a lot on if he looks NBA ready and if he is able to continue to impose his will on players at this level. If he comes in and gets numbers but doesn't do so in a way that screams NBA talent, he would likely be better served coming back.
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The Harrison twins are the best example I can think. Both were projected one-n-done lottery picks coming out of HS, with one being projected as high as the 5-7 range. Then they played in college. After one year they were projected late 1st/early 2nd. After two years they are now mid-2nd to undrafted.
Maybe Henry will ball out, be one-n-done, and have people wondering if Dirk Nowitzki is his real father. But he could just as easily be a two, three, or four year player. Let's just let it play out and enjoy the ride.
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It pains me to say it as a diehard, but Dominic should've left for the NBA after his Freshman year....he would've been a 1st round pick and made a few million.....probably a late 1st
You're probably right. But for every Dominic who might have been better off leaving early, there are plenty of kids who leave early and probably would have been better off staying.
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You're probably right. But for every Dominic who might have been better off leaving early, there are plenty of kids who leave early and probably would have been better off staying.
I agree. But Henry is a different story. His stock is sky high. He would be a 1st rounder this year if HS was eligible.
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I agree Brew. I just hope WOJO isn't a dick and sits him for Frosh mistakes.
If Henry isn't playing well, and Wojo sits him, that means he's a dick?
The head coach has to worry about more than one player.
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If Henry isn't playing well, and Wojo sits him, that means he's a dick?
The head coach has to worry about more than one player.
You sit a guy making frosh mistakes in the hope that he doesn't make the same mistake again. There's a big difference between sitting a guy down for a couple minutes to clear his head and having him ride pine the rest of the game. Carlino was a great example this year, Wojo would sit him for mistakes, but usually get him back in quickly. Some others, like Jajuan or Steve, would end up with much longer spells for the same mistakes. It will probably depend on how well Henry learns from his mistakes and how necessary he is on the floor.
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If Henry isn't playing well, and Wojo sits him, that means he's a dick?
The head coach has to worry about more than one player.
Openly advocating for head games, ai'na?
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Openly advocating for head games, ai'na?
Maybe I should change my handle to Western Texas, hey?
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I agree Brew. I just hope WOJO isn't a dick and sits him for Frosh mistakes. HE is one of the highest rated recruits to ever come to MU. I will be very disappointed if HE doesn't get at least 30 minutes.
I don't get this.
So if he makes freshman mistakes, he should not be sat because he is a higher rated prospect? If he is truly a good player, he won't make as many mistakes. So he won't sit.
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If/when HE leaves for the NBA it will pain me as a MU fan, however when you hear "....starting at forward from Marquette University.......Henry Ellenson!"
A 5 star HS kid says to himself...didn't Jimmy Butler go to Marquette?, didn't Jae Crowder go to Marquette? I think D Wade went there too.
It's a win/win.
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I'm super excited to see both Ellenson's playing togther....Henry and Wally.....I ironically see the big man throwing the oop
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Legit question, but I have come to the conclusion that trying to predict what an 18-20 year old kid will do is an exercise in futility.
I thought Dominic was gone for sure after his freshman year, but he stayed four years. I thought Jerel was gone for sure after his junior year, but he stayed and made AA. I thought Vander was back for sure after his junior year, and he left.
Add that to Brew's list of "sure" one-and-dones who stayed, and my plan is just to enjoy watching Henry as long as he is here.
I agree with all of this (and with what brew says).
The one factor nobody is mentioning:
What if he simply likes being in college? What if he wants to play another year with his brother? What if he wants to be a kid a little longer? What if his parents really want him to stay in college longer -- kind of the opposite of when not-ready-to-play kids have advisers whispering "Go!" in their ears.
There are all kinds of reasons Henry could decide to stay a second season. There is only one reason to go -- $$$$ -- and yes, it is a compelling one.
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The only reason Henry will be at MU is to play out the rest of his brother's career with him.
I agree with all of this (and with what brew says).
The one factor nobody is mentioning:
What if he simply likes being in college? What if he wants to play another year with his brother? What if he wants to be a kid a little longer? What if his parents really want him to stay in college longer -- kind of the opposite of when not-ready-to-play kids have advisers whispering "Go!" in their ears.
There are all kinds of reasons Henry could decide to stay a second season. There is only one reason to go -- $$$$ -- and yes, it is a compelling one.
No. If you are dominating your competition your rate of improvement will plateau. Sometimes you need a new challenge. Oh, and being able to focus on your career without the other commitments (such as being in school and having to study).
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I want Henry to do what's best for him in a year. Part of that is a personal decision and feeling. I'm OK with whatever path he chooses.
This year for him will be a lot about eFG%. His shot selection will dictate much of this. Lots of possibilities for him with regard to eFG%.
Finally, I know others have crapped on Andrew Harrison, but I think he's legit. Would be thrilled to get him in the second round.
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Andrew Harrison had a strong day in the first day of scrimmages. Calipari didn't really do much to develop him though.
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Having Wally for two obviously increases the chances big time.
It's tough though. I want him to do as well as possible but I also know that 2016-2017 would be our year. So if he goes off too much he won't be around lol.
But ultimately it's up to him. I just hope if he does go 1 and done it's because he had a great 1 and done type of year. Not leaving off potential.
Want that year to be worth it at least!!
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Respect the process, ai na?
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Henry will be with us all four years. We need to tone down the expectations. He is a very solid All State talent for sure and one of the better players that has come along in recent years. But remember all the highlight videos you are watching are against kids who are smaller and less talented. It will take some time for him to adjust. I am confident he will make the transition but I just think it will take some time.
When Henry got to the U-17 he rode the pine a lot and was not nearly as dominant, and that was against other national teams that were not necessarily great either. His best games were against very weak teams. He is not NBA ready yet.
I think his freshman stats will be similar to Lukes this year. By the time he is a senior he will be one of the better players in the Big East.
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Henry will be with us all four years. We need to tone down the expectations. He is a very solid All State talent for sure and one of the better players that has come along in recent years. But remember all the highlight videos you are watching are against kids who are smaller and less talented. It will take some time for him to adjust. I am confident he will make the transition but I just think it will take some time.
When Henry got to the U-17 he rode the pine a lot and was not nearly as dominant, and that was against other national teams that were not necessarily great either. His best games were against very weak teams. He is not NBA ready yet.
I think his freshman stats will be similar to Lukes this year. By the time he is a senior he will be one of the better players in the Big East.
That's a bold statement cotton
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I think Wojo will do whatever he thinks is best to win. Minutes are earned based on contribution to the team. If Ellensen earns alot of minutes then he gets them. I expect he will earn them but if not well we will all be disappointed but let's not blame the coach.. I am in the Marquette fan club and hope Ellenson is the best player ever to come to MU but if someone contributes more then he should get the minutes. How else should it be done?
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That's a bold statement cotton
Two years minimum with brother. Then I think he will stick it out for another two as his game continues to progress. Doug McDermott poor first season will cast a long shadow on guys like Henry.
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Doug McDermott poor first season will cast a long shadow on guys like Henry.
Why? They play nothing alike
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Henry will not be at MU for 4 years. The money is too great in the Association to take a pass 'til later. Not happenin', hey?
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Barring injury, Henry Ellenson will play one year at MU. Put me on record for this.
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Barring injury, Henry Ellenson will play one year at MU. Put me on record for this.
So three years of Wally for one year of Henry? Squirmy.
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Henry will be with us all four years. We need to tone down the expectations. He is a very solid All State talent for sure and one of the better players that has come along in recent years. But remember all the highlight videos you are watching are against kids who are smaller and less talented.
I think his freshman stats will be similar to Lukes this year. By the time he is a senior he will be one of the better players in the Big East.
The fact that you've only seen highlight videos doesn't mean others on this board and elsewhere haven't seen him in person countless times over the year, against varied competition. That's what you must remember.
His FR stats will not be similar to Luke's this year. One-armed Fischer had a sub-20% usage and sub-19% %Shots; Fischer had one 3FGA and 173 2FGA - believe it or not, Henry will take more 3-pt fg attempts than Luke and take a lot more shots than Luke. Statistically, Luke shouldn't even look like Luke from 2014-15.. but as a comp for Henry's projections in 2015-16? That's ridiculous.
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So three years of Wally for one year of Henry? Squirmy.
Isn't four years of Ellenson the dream? ;)
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The fact that you've only seen highlight videos doesn't mean others on this board and elsewhere haven't seen him in person countless times over the year, against varied competition. That's what you must remember.
His FR stats will not be similar to Luke's this year. One-armed Fischer had a sub-20% usage and sub-19% %Shots; Fischer had one 3FGA and 173 2FGA - believe it or not, Henry will take more 3-pt fg attempts than Luke and take a lot more shots than Luke. Statistically, Luke shouldn't even look like Luke from 2014-15.. but as a comp for Henry's projections in 2015-16? That's ridiculous.
Yawn. Will someone wake me up when all of this ends? Thanks.
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I agree Brew. I just hope WOJO isn't a dick and sits him for Frosh mistakes. HE is one of the highest rated recruits to ever come to MU. I will be very disappointed if HE doesn't get at least 30 minutes.
Consider a cold shower....
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Having Wally for two obviously increases the chances big time.
It's tough though. I want him to do as well as possible but I also know that 2016-2017 would be our year. So if he goes off too much he won't be around lol.
But ultimately it's up to him. I just hope if he does go 1 and done it's because he had a great 1 and done type of year. Not leaving off potential.
Want that year to be worth it at least!!
I have been thinking about this and I think they both are gone after this year. Henry to NBA and Wally to the olympics.
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The only reason Henry will be at MU is to play out the rest of his brother's career with him.
No. If you are dominating your competition your rate of improvement will plateau. Sometimes you need a new challenge. Oh, and being able to focus on your career without the other commitments (such as being in school and having to study).
Good points, all.
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I have been thinking about this and I think they both are gone fter this year. Henry to NBA and Wally to the olympics.
+1
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The fact that you've only seen highlight videos doesn't mean others on this board and elsewhere haven't seen him in person countless times over the year, against varied competition. That's what you must remember.
His FR stats will not be similar to Luke's this year. One-armed Fischer had a sub-20% usage and sub-19% %Shots; Fischer had one 3FGA and 173 2FGA - believe it or not, Henry will take more 3-pt fg attempts than Luke and take a lot more shots than Luke. Statistically, Luke shouldn't even look like Luke from 2014-15.. but as a comp for Henry's projections in 2015-16? That's ridiculous.
I have seen him in person. I think he is a strong player who will have a steady upward progression over 4 years . I just have lower expectations for the first year than many seem to have. He will have some good games against the cream puffs for sure, but there will be some learning against the more athletically gifted teams . Will be one of the top newcomers in the Big East for sure . Big difference between high school and college
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If MU lands Kyle Washington, I think that will be a strong indicator that the coaching staff is expecting that Henry is going to be a one-and-done, and that they've told that to Kyle.
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If MU lands Kyle Washington, I think that will be a strong indicator that the coaching staff is expecting that Henry is going to be a one-and-done, and that they've told that to Kyle.
I hope they have told Washington something like this: "There is a possibility that Henry leaves after one year because he already is being mentioned as a potential lottery pick in 2016. But even if Henry stays, you would be an extremely important part of our program and we would have big plans for you and Henry alongside each other in our frontcourt. Either way, it is a wonderful opportunity for you and for Marquette."
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If MU lands Kyle Washington, I think that will be a strong indicator that the coaching staff is expecting that Henry is going to be a one-and-done, and that they've told that to Kyle.
Not sure about that. Hank can play the 3. In fact, that would be an absolute dream scenario. Carter (6'), Duane (6'3"), Hank (6'10"), Washington (6'9"), and Luke starting (6'10"). Then you have Cheathem (6'5") Wally (6'6"), Rowsey (5'10"), JJJ (6'5"), Hauser (6'6"), Anim (6'4"), Heldt (6'10"), and hopefully Coffee (6'6") or Greek Freak Jr. (6'9") coming off the bench and you have the college version of the Milwaukee Bucks. Length and athleticism everywhere. I would kill for a starting 3-5 of Hank, Washington, and Fischer. Hank can stretch the floor, Luke the true post, and Washington the energy guy who cleans up all the garbage. Duane splashing and slashing and Traci running the team. And a loaded bench.
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If MU lands Kyle Washington, I think that will be a strong indicator that the coaching staff is expecting that Henry is going to be a one-and-done, and that they've told that to Kyle.
I am not sure about this. Look at it this way Wojo is trying to stock up on experience transfers, so we can make a run at a final four in Henry's sophomore year. Henry may go after one, but Wojo is banking on two years. Henry staying four years would make it harder for Wojo to recruit another top 10 player. Best thing is for Henry to make NBA within two years and the potential recruit from Dominican to make it in two years. Add in Fischer and then Wojo can start telling bigmen he can get them to the NBA.
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Not sure about that. Hank can play the 3. In fact, that would be an absolute dream scenario. Carter (6'), Duane (6'3"), Hank (6'10"), Washington (6'9"), and Luke starting (6'10"). Then you have Cheathem (6'5") Wally (6'6"), Rowsey (5'10"), JJJ (6'5"), Hauser (6'6"), Anim (6'4"), Heldt (6'10"), and hopefully Coffee (6'6") or Greek Freak Jr. (6'9") coming off the bench and you have the college version of the Milwaukee Bucks. Length and athleticism everywhere. I would kill for a starting 3-5 of Hank, Washington, and Fischer. Hank can stretch the floor, Luke the true post, and Washington the energy guy who cleans up all the garbage. Duane splashing and slashing and Traci running the team. And a loaded bench.
Drooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
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Not sure about that. Hank can play the 3. In fact, that would be an absolute dream scenario. Carter (6'), Duane (6'3"), Hank (6'10"), Washington (6'9"), and Luke starting (6'10"). Then you have Cheathem (6'5") Wally (6'6"), Rowsey (5'10"), JJJ (6'5"), Hauser (6'6"), Anim (6'4"), Heldt (6'10"), and hopefully Coffee (6'6") or Greek Freak Jr. (6'9") coming off the bench and you have the college version of the Milwaukee Bucks. Length and athleticism everywhere. I would kill for a starting 3-5 of Hank, Washington, and Fischer. Hank can stretch the floor, Luke the true post, and Washington the energy guy who cleans up all the garbage. Duane splashing and slashing and Traci running the team. And a loaded bench. And Cohen thrown right under the bus!
FIFY
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FIFY
Such is the life of college basketball. It's why transfers exist.
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Not sure about that. Hank can play the 3. In fact, that would be an absolute dream scenario. Carter (6'), Duane (6'3"), Hank (6'10"), Washington (6'9"), and Luke starting (6'10"). Then you have Cheathem (6'5") Wally (6'6"), Rowsey (5'10"), JJJ (6'5"), Hauser (6'6"), Anim (6'4"), Heldt (6'10"), and hopefully Coffee (6'6") or Greek Freak Jr. (6'9") coming off the bench and you have the college version of the Milwaukee Bucks. Length and athleticism everywhere. I would kill for a starting 3-5 of Hank, Washington, and Fischer. Hank can stretch the floor, Luke the true post, and Washington the energy guy who cleans up all the garbage. Duane splashing and slashing and Traci running the team. And a loaded bench.
HE at the three? I guess we'll see.
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FIFY
Haha I knew I was forgetting someone. My bad. He's part of the puzzle too. Even better.
HE at the three? I guess we'll see.
I think that's where he'd be his best.
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HE at the three? I guess we'll see.
I just may... eat some hay... down by the bay...
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shooter!
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I think that's where he'd be his best.
You are who you can guard. I don't see Ellenson guarding Big East wings. Would be happy to be proven wrong.
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You are who you can guard. I don't see Ellenson guarding Big East wings. Would be happy to be proven wrong.
Agree wholeheartedly. Which is why I predict we get 3 years from HE.
He absolutely cannot guard an NBA '3' and needs more strength & seasoning before he could handle an NBA '4'.
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You are who you can guard. I don't see Ellenson guarding Big East wings. Would be happy to be proven wrong.
Steve Novak would disagree with you. I think HE will have issues with the quickness of the "3" and the strength and power rebounding against the "4".
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Agree wholeheartedly. Which is why I predict we get 3 years from HE.
If NBA scouts see the potential in HE, he can go after one year. If Henry wants to stay and get stronger that's on him. HE will get drafted on potential, not his perceived level of defense, or strength.
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Steve Novak would disagree with you. I think HE will have issues with the quickness of the "3" and the strength and power rebounding against the "4".
Actually, I think Steve would agree. In the NBA you are what you can defend. Steve can defend no one, so he is no one.
Luckily, he has one skill that is off the charts and that has earned him millions, but ultimately, he is unable to defend - ergo he rides the bench.
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HE will get drafted on potential, not his perceived level of defense, or strength.
I agree with the 1st half of the sentence - and disagree with the 2nd half.
To make it on a good team in the NBA without being able to defend, requires the type of physical AND basketball skills that HE doesn't possess - think Curry, Harden, Iverson.
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I think a large chunk of people here are completely underestimating how good Hank is.
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I think a large chunk of people here are completely underestimating how good Hank is.
I'm hoping he will be a Kyle Singler-like player. I'd be happy with 13/6 as a freshman.
He probably has 1" - 1 1/2" edge on Kyle and the build to be stronger once he gets in the weight room.
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Actually, I think Steve would agree. In the NBA you are what you can defend. Steve can defend no one, so he is no one.
Luckily, he has one skill that is off the charts and that has earned him millions, but ultimately, he is unable to defend - ergo he rides the bench.
I wouldn't mind being a "no one" and making millions. Sign me up.
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I agree with the 1st half of the sentence - and disagree with the 2nd half.
To make it on a good team in the NBA without being able to defend, requires the type of physical AND basketball skills that HE doesn't possess - think Curry, Harden, Iverson.
Are you saying in order to be on a good nba team one must possess the skills that Curry, Harden, and Iverson have/had? That's quite the statement. Pretty sure the nba and good nba teams take lots of different types of players.
There are plenty of good players on good teams that are mediocre at defense. I have no idea what to expect out of HE and am tempering expectations but I have a feeling he's going to be a stud. Needless to say I'm excited with what he shows in his freshman year of college.
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Are you saying in order to be on a good nba team one must possess the skills that Curry, Harden, and Iverson have/had? That's quite the statement. Pretty sure the nba and good nba teams take lots of different types of players.
There are plenty of good players on good teams that are mediocre at defense. I have no idea what to expect out of HE and am tempering expectations but I have a feeling he's going to be a stud. Needless to say I'm excited with what he shows in his freshman year of college.
No, I wasn't saying that. I was saying that you need a very specific skillset if you don't play defense (think Kyle Korver, Dale Ellis).
And, I too, look forward to seeing what HE can do. I think by the time that he leaves MU, we will all be pretty happy with the results.
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Actually, I think Steve would agree. In the NBA you are what you can defend. Steve can defend no one, so he is no one.
Luckily, he has one skill that is off the charts and that has earned him millions, but ultimately, he is unable to defend - ergo he rides the bench.
Since HS, Steve Novak has been told he needs to improve his defense. What he decided was best for him was to shoot 1K jumpers/day. He's now approaching a 10 year professional career, including his latest 4 year, $15M deal. SN will never be considered for defensive POY, but certainly not a NO ONE.
I don't think HE's inability to defend an NBA '3' will NOT translate into a longer collegiate career.
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Since HS, Steve Novak has been told he needs to improve his defense. What he decided was best for him was to shoot 1K jumpers/day. He's now approaching a 10 year professional career, including his latest 4 year, $15M deal. SN will never be considered for defensive POY, but certainly not a NO ONE.
I don't think HE's inability to defend an NBA '3' will translate into a longer collegiate career.
It was a smart move by Steve - but in terms of an NBA player he is just a body. He is the definition of a No One in the NBA. In 9 years, he has only played over 10 minutes per game 3 times. At 6'10" he has averaged 1.3 rebounds for his career and has averaged 4 blocked shots PER YEAR (0.1 per game).
His only marketable skill is shooting 3s. It is the ONLY reason he has ever been in the NBA.
And yes - I would trade my career for his in a second.
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Has anyone seen some videos that poke fun at Harden's defense? It's terrible. Defense can definitely be important, but it doesn't always matter. The same way NBA player's have great careers shooting 40% from the line or not being able to hit a jumper to save their lives. Lots of players have big deficiencies in their game, but still have great careers.
The NBA is really all about potential when it comes to the draft, especially when you look at those lottery picks where we all are hopeful HE will end up someday.
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Has anyone seen some videos that poke fun at Harden's defense? It's terrible. Defense can definitely be important, but it doesn't always matter. The same way NBA player's have great careers shooting 40% from the line or not being able to hit a jumper to save their lives. Lots of players have big deficiencies in their game, but still have great careers.
The NBA is really all about potential when it comes to the draft, especially when you look at those lottery picks where we all are hopeful HE will end up someday.
I think we agree here. In Harden's case, defense doesn't matter as much because of the other things he brings to the floor. For a marginal player, it does matter.
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It was a smart move by Steve - but in terms of an NBA player he is just a body. He is the definition of a No One in the NBA. In 9 years, he has only played over 10 minutes per game 3 times. At 6'10" he has averaged 1.3 rebounds for his career and has averaged 4 blocked shots PER YEAR (0.1 per game).
His only marketable skill is shooting 3s. It is the ONLY reason he has ever been in the NBA.
And yes - I would trade my career for his in a second.
Steve's HS coach was his Dad who at 6'9" moved Steve to SG. His Coach(es) never worked with Steve to be a rebounder or shot blocker. They worked on his unbelievable skill which paid dividends in the millions.
If his coach would have spent the time and worked on Steve's D, rebounding, and shot blocking..........you wouldn't be seeing him on an NBA roster, you would be playing against him at your local YMCA--just a guy.
He's a specialist with deficiencies--similar to Dennis Rodman, Shaquille, jimmy Mac, etc.
HE played the 1,2 and 4 in HS. His rebounding and D are not stellar. Maybe that changes. But if it doesn't, it will not affect his NBA aspirations, nor will he stick around longer in college to improve the areas of his game that you would like to see improvement.
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Steve's HS coach was his Dad who at 6'9" moved Steve to SG. His Coach(es) never worked with Steve to be a rebounder or shot blocker. They worked on his unbelievable skill which paid dividends in the millions.
If his coach would have spent the time and worked on Steve's D, rebounding, and shot blocking..........you wouldn't be seeing him on an NBA roster, you would be playing against him at your local YMCA--just a guy.
He's a specialist with deficiencies--similar to Dennis Rodman, Shaquille, jimmy Mac, etc.
HE played the 1,2 and 4 in HS. His rebounding and D are not stellar. Maybe that changes. But if it doesn't, it will not affect his NBA aspirations, nor will he stick around longer in college to improve the areas of his game that you would like to see improvement.
The only part I question is comparing him to Rodman or Shaq. Novak is a one-trick pony. Those guys were not.
The Jimmy Mac comparison is apt. He could block shots with the best.
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The only part I question is comparing him to Rodman or Shaq. Noak is a one-trick pony. Those guys were not.
The Jimmy Mac comparison is apt. He could block shots with the best.
Shaq couldn't hit a FT or anything longer than a 6' jumper. That part of his game never improved.
Rodman's jumper was laughable, but what he did, he also did the best. I think you can play in the NBA--at varying degrees--with deficiencies in your game, including defense.
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Shaq couldn't hit a FT or anything longer than a 6' jumper. That part of his game never improved.
Rodman's jumper was laughable, but what he did, he also did the best. I think you can play in the NBA--at varying degrees--with deficiencies in your game, including defense.
Shaq was a dominant hall of fame player on both ends. He was a dominant scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, and passer. He led teams to NBA titles.
Rodman was the NBA's best defender, arguably its best rebounder, maybe the best setter of picks, and without doubt was the top "effort" guy in the league. He was the difference maker in helping Detroit win titles.
Novak was a 5-7 minute per game player. His one skill gave him an NBA job. Because he only had one skill, he has been just another body for 9 years that no team ever made an effort to keep.
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My conversation with a former ESPN guy from this morning:
Him: You guys are going to be pretty good this year considering how bad you were last year.
Me: Agree, it will certainly be exciting.
Him: Too bad that Hauser kid and Ellenson will never play together, though.
Me: You never know. I'm hoping for two years.
Him: No way. It's like Badger fans thinking Dekker would come back this year. Not even in the ballpark of possibility.
Me: Really?
Him: Really. That kid could be a lottery pick if all goes well.
BTW: Badger fans I know are absolutely distraught with the Sam Hauser commitment. They saw him as the prototypical Bo player and can't understand why they weren't on him years ago.
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My conversation with a former ESPN guy from this morning:
Chicos is that you?
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Chicos is that you?
Sorry. Let me try again. I was talking to a guy I've known for 15 years who knows a little bit about play basketball. He said Ellenson is good.
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Sorry. Let me try again. I was talking to a guy I've known for 15 years who knows a little bit about play basketball. He said Ellenson is good.
But did he play high school basketball?
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Shaq was a dominant hall of fame player on both ends. He was a dominant scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, and passer. He led teams to NBA titles.
Rodman was the NBA's best defender, arguably its best rebounder, maybe the best setter of picks, and without doubt was the top "effort" guy in the league. He was the difference maker in helping Detroit win titles.
Novak was a 5-7 minute per game player. His one skill gave him an NBA job. Because he only had one skill, he has been just another body for 9 years that no team ever made an effort to keep.
HE isn't staying in a school and additional year(s) to improve his defensive skills---I believed that was where this all started.
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HE isn't staying in a school and additional year(s) to improve his defensive skills---I believed that was where this all started.
Maybe we did get a bit off-track. And I agree with the statement.
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Let's not get carried away with Henry's future. Let him play. Let him enjoy playing at Marquette just like Kaminski enjoyed his four years at Wisconsin. The four years at MU may be the most enjoyable and memorable me of his life.
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Sorry. Let me try again. I was talking to a guy I've known for 15 years who knows a little bit about play basketball. He said Ellenson is good.
So, Ners is in your posse, hey?
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So, Ners is in your posse, hey?
Touch 'em all, 4ever.
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My conversation with a former ESPN guy from this morning:
Him: You guys are going to be pretty good this year considering how bad you were last year.
Me: Agree, it will certainly be exciting.
Him: Too bad that Hauser kid and Ellenson will never play together, though.
Me: You never know. I'm hoping for two years.
Him: No way. It's like Badger fans thinking Dekker would come back this year. Not even in the ballpark of possibility.
Me: Really?
Him: Really. That kid could be a lottery pick if all goes well.
BTW: Badger fans I know are absolutely distraught with the Sam Hauser commitment. They saw him as the prototypical Bo player and can't understand why they weren't on him years ago.
Well, if a former ESPN guy said it, it's a done deal.
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Let's not get carried away with Henry's future. Let him play. Let him enjoy playing at Marquette just like Kaminski enjoyed his four years at Wisconsin. The four years at MU may be the most enjoyable and memorable me of his life.
Hey, there's no ice cream trucks in the NBA, just Brink's trucks.
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Here's a question for those who think he'll be at Marquette for at least 2 seasons. If Ellenson had signed with Kentucky, would you think he would be at Kentucky for at least 2 seasons?
Here's the thing, Ellenson could completely underperform my expectations in terms of numbers and have season averages of, say, 9 points and 4 rebounds, and he'd still be a top 20 draft pick next year. At 19 years old, with a guard's ball handling ability and shooting ability but standing 6'10", NBA GMs in the mid to late 1st round will jump all over him even if those are his numbers.
I expect his floor to be 13 points and 4 rebounds, and think that he will be a 15 point and 6 rebound guy. If he gets to even his floor he's a lottery pick.
The absolute only reason he's back for a 2nd year at Marquette is to play out the rest of Wally's career with him, which is possible.
So again, even if he doesn't live up to the standards of those who thinking he will play like a top 10 recruit, based solely on potential an NBA GM will take him in the first round. Expecting 2 seasons out of him simply because he'll need to develop his game is silly. If he feels the need to develop his game, he will enter the NBA. If he wants an extra year with his brother, he'll stay for a 2nd year and be gone after that.
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I think he will be one and done and hope for his sake he is one and done!!
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Honestly, I really haven't given a thought to whether he's one-and-done or a four-year player. I look forward to him playing at Marquette next year. I hope the rest of the team is good enough around him to let next year's team do some special things. Right now, I have definite reservations in that regard, but I'm still excited to see what Henry can do.
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Expecting 2 seasons out of him simply because he'll need to develop his game is silly.
Bold proclamation for a guy that hasn't played in one college basketball game. I suspect you're right based on all accounts, but still a kid making a massive transition from high school bball to high level DI.
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Here's a question for those who think he'll be at Marquette for at least 2 seasons. If Ellenson had signed with Kentucky, would you think he would be at Kentucky for at least 2 seasons?
Here's the thing, Ellenson could completely underperform my expectations in terms of numbers and have season averages of, say, 9 points and 4 rebounds, and he'd still be a top 20 draft pick next year. At 19 years old, with a guard's ball handling ability and shooting ability but standing 6'10", NBA GMs in the mid to late 1st round will jump all over him even if those are his numbers.
I expect his floor to be 13 points and 4 rebounds, and think that he will be a 15 point and 6 rebound guy. If he gets to even his floor he's a lottery pick.
The absolute only reason he's back for a 2nd year at Marquette is to play out the rest of Wally's career with him, which is possible.
So again, even if he doesn't live up to the standards of those who thinking he will play like a top 10 recruit, based solely on potential an NBA GM will take him in the first round. Expecting 2 seasons out of him simply because he'll need to develop his game is silly. If he feels the need to develop his game, he will enter the NBA. If he wants an extra year with his brother, he'll stay for a 2nd year and be gone after that.
I disagree, Wade. But we will see.
The Harrison twins were locks to be lottery picks after 1 year - until they weren't. Same with Dakari Johnson and Alex Poythress.
"a guard's ball handling ability and shooting ability but standing 6'10" is a bit of hyperbole and I think 6'10" may be a bit of a stretch. He may be 6'10" the way Draymond Green was 6'7".
HE is going to be an outstanding player, but I don't think he'll be gone after one year.
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Bold proclamation for a guy that hasn't played in one college basketball game. I suspect you're right based on all accounts, but still a kid making a massive transition from high school bball to high level DI.
I'm just saying that if his reason for staying is to develop his game then the best place to do that is in the NBA. I doubt GMs and coaches in the NBA are going to say, "Well, we'd draft you, but we think you need to develop your game and think Coach Wojo is the best option to do that." The guy is oozing with potential, and NBA organizations will be jumping at the opportunity to develop that.
I disagree, Wade. But we will see.
The Harrison twins were locks to be lottery picks after 1 year - until they weren't. Same with Dakari Johnson and Alex Poythress.
"a guard's ball handling ability and shooting ability but standing 6'10" is a bit of hyperbole and I think 6'10" may be a bit of a stretch. He may be 6'10" the way Draymond Green was 6'7".
HE is going to be an outstanding player, but I don't think he'll be gone after one year.
I think the guy you should be looking at is Trey Lyles. They are more or less identical players both in size and skillset. Trey's numbers this year? 8 and 5. Where he'll get drafted? Lottery. When you have the combination of size, athleticism, and skill that Henry and Trey have (each of the players you list from Kentucky lacked at least 1 of those 3 things), you don't even need to show you have it in 1 year in college to be a lottery pick.
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Also, take a look at the top 10 recruits last year. Okafor, Mudiay, Johnson, Alexander, Towns, Oubre, Jones, Vaughn, Turner, Looney.
10 out of 10 of those players will be drafted in the NBA Draft, with a minimum of 8 in the first round and possibly all 10 (most likely 9, with Alexander early in the 2nd round and possibly Vaughn slips to the early 2nd round). I get that a top 25 ranking can be off and certainly top 50 or top 75 can be horribly missed, but they very rarely get the top 5-10 wrong, and that's where Henry is in not just 1 site, but every single site.
There is no reason to "hold back" on the expectations for Henry. Every single recruiting website and NBA Draft website has seen him against the top competition in the world and thinks he belongs in the same group as those above. Thankfully coach Wojo doesn't seem to be doing that, saying multiple times that he's a special talent and one of, if not the, best players in the country. I'm glad our coach isn't going to baby him as he comes in. Wojo clearly expects a lot from him, and so do I.
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Also, take a look at the top 10 recruits last year. Okafor, Mudiay, Johnson, Alexander, Towns, Oubre, Jones, Vaughn, Turner, Looney.
10 out of 10 of those players will be drafted in the NBA Draft, with a minimum of 8 in the first round and possibly all 10 (most likely 9, with Alexander early in the 2nd round and possibly Vaughn slips to the early 2nd round). I get that a top 25 ranking can be off and certainly top 50 or top 75 can be horribly missed, but they very rarely get the top 5-10 wrong, and that's where Henry is in not just 1 site, but every single site.
There is no reason to "hold back" on the expectations for Henry. Every single recruiting website and NBA Draft website has seen him against the top competition in the world and thinks he belongs in the same group as those above. Thankfully coach Wojo doesn't seem to be doing that, saying multiple times that he's a special talent and one of, if not the, best players in the country. I'm glad our coach isn't going to baby him as he comes in. Wojo clearly expects a lot from him, and so do I.
That part isn't true. He's as low as 23. Still very good. But not 5-10 everywhere.
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Also, take a look at the top 10 recruits last year. Okafor, Mudiay, Johnson, Alexander, Towns, Oubre, Jones, Vaughn, Turner, Looney.
That may be one list, but the RSCI had Justin Jackson (returning to school) in the top 10. In the 2014 Draft, 4 of the top 10 came back (Chris Walker, Dakari Johnson, Andrew & Aaron Harrison). In 2013, 6 of the top 10, Justin Anderson, Isaac Austin, Anthony Bennett, Kaleb Tarczewski, Alex Poythress, and Marcus Smart, came back. In the 2012 Draft, it was 4/10 coming back -- James McAdoo, LeBryan Nash, Adonis Thomas, and Cody Zeller. In 2011 it was 3/10, including the #1 and #2 players in the RSCI rankings that didn't declare early, with Harrison Barnes, Jared Sullinger, and Perry Jones all coming back.
This year is the exception in that only one top-10 player is coming back. Most years it is multiple players. Maybe Henry goes, maybe he doesn't, but if you look at the last 5 years, 18/50 top-10 RSCI players did not declare after their freshman year. That's a 36% chance any top-10 player would be back.
10 out of 10 of those players will be drafted in the NBA Draft, with a minimum of 8 in the first round and possibly all 10 (most likely 9, with Alexander early in the 2nd round and possibly Vaughn slips to the early 2nd round). I get that a top 25 ranking can be off and certainly top 50 or top 75 can be horribly missed, but they very rarely get the top 5-10 wrong, and that's where Henry is in not just 1 site, but every single site.
Again, there's a 36% chance he comes back, but Henry isn't top-10 on every single site. Far from it. Rivals lists Henry as #11. 247 Sports has him all the way down at #23. In the last RSCI ranking, Henry wasn't even top-10 on the average of all systems used! I expect he'll move up from #11 when the next list comes around, but you vastly overstate his rankings here. He's a big recruit. He's generally considered a top-10 guy and was deserving of the McDonald's accolade. But let's be honest about his rankings.
There is no reason to "hold back" on the expectations for Henry. Every single recruiting website and NBA Draft website has seen him against the top competition in the world and thinks he belongs in the same group as those above. Thankfully coach Wojo doesn't seem to be doing that, saying multiple times that he's a special talent and one of, if not the, best players in the country. I'm glad our coach isn't going to baby him as he comes in. Wojo clearly expects a lot from him, and so do I.
I have high hopes for Henry. I have no idea what he will do because guys adjust to this level differently. Will the offense run through him or Duane? Will the physicality of the Big East be a bigger adjustment for him than a guy who plays at a bigger school? Will there be any lingering affects of his hand injury? I don't know the answer to any of these questions. If I were guessing, I would expect Henry to be our best player next year. Does that translate to an early entry and a lottery pick? Maybe. I'd even say there's a 64% chance that happens. But acting like it's a foregone conclusion is just silly.
Prognosticators are wrong all the time. They have been wrong about high school prospects and they have been wrong about draft boards made over a year in advance. Let's just let the kid play rather than trying to guess what he will or won't be when the reality of it is we won't know until he gets on the court.
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I'm just saying that if his reason for staying is to develop his game then the best place to do that is in the NBA. I doubt GMs and coaches in the NBA are going to say, "Well, we'd draft you, but we think you need to develop your game and think Coach Wojo is the best option to do that." The guy is oozing with potential, and NBA organizations will be jumping at the opportunity to develop that.
Point taken, but to be drafted, you have to have shown that you're capable of playing in the NBA immediately. Of course, teams draft on potential, but it's also a player that's crossed that threshold of proven talent on the floor in college, overseas, etc. So what I'm asserting is that it's a pretty big assumption to say that he will reach that threshold when he's still in high school.
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I predict Henry will play between 1 and 4 seasons at Marquette.
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Suggestion: This is a 17-going-on-18-year-old man who has yet to step on the Marquette campus as a student.
Let's let him show up on campus and practice with the team before we determine his NBA draft fortunes.
Please??????