MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: tower912 on April 16, 2015, 02:07:07 PM
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/bal-diamond-stone-decision-to-play-at-maryland-20150415-story.html
Some interesting stuff. Shots across UW's bow in regards to academics and campus diversity.
edit: I should have said 'graduation rates' instead of 'academics'.
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/bal-diamond-stone-decision-to-play-at-maryland-20150415-story.html
Some interesting stuff. Shots across UW's bow in regards to academics and campus diversity.
Reminds me of when Alcindor left Milwaukee. His problem with the city was that it lacked black diversity and culture.
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Reminds me of when Alcindor left Milwaukee. His problem with the city was that it lacked black diversity and culture.
yeah-it took me a while to first understand that as a kid, then get over it. we had 6th row season tix on aisle next to tunnel, big lew would enter the arena where we could pat him on the head(but didn't)-didn't want to give him another reason to leave
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yeah-it took me a while to first understand that as a kid, then get over it. we had 6th row season tix on aisle next to tunnel, big lew would enter the arena where we could pat him on the head(but didn't)-didn't want to give him another reason to leave
Same here. I was just mad that he wanted out. Didn't understand the reasons at the time.
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my wife still holds a grudge against Alcindor because he refused to sign autographs in the tunnel for her and her brother (they were about 10 years old)
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Thanks for that link.
The very last thought caught my eye:
Robert Stone said that the experiences he and his wife, a former volleyball player at Arkansas-Pine Bluff, had in college also played a role in their son leaving the state of Wisconsin.
“We both left home and we felt that benefited us tremendously,” he said.
Everybody assumes that a kid wants to stay close to home. Lots of them do. But lots also want to use their ability as an opportunity to live in another part of the country.
I know that one of the many reasons I chose Marquette was because of all the schools that accepted me, it was the farthest from home. I wanted to try something different, and I'm glad I did.
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I know that one of the many reasons I chose Marquette was because of all the schools that accepted me, it was the farthest from home. I wanted to try something different, and I'm glad I did.
See, we have more common ground. We need to get that beer soon.
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See, we have more common ground. We need to get that beer soon.
I got a couple great places here in Charlotte next time you're in town.
You'd be traveling, so the beer would be on me!
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Let me play devil's advocate here ....
All these reason for attending Maryland are fine and sound If, repeat, if, your kid was planning on spending four years at the University and getting a degree.
In Diamond's case, he will be there about seven months and then all this goes away as he listens to his new agent and prepares for the 2016 NBA draft.
What is wrong with this rebuttal?
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Let me play devil's advocate here ....
All these reason for attending Maryland are fine and sound If, repeat, if, your kid was planning on spending four years at the University and getting a degree.
In Diamond's case, he will be there about seven months and then all this goes away as he listens to his new agent and prepares for the 2016 NBA draft.
What is wrong with this rebuttal?
This for me is a huge part of it. I mean...no one expects Diamond to play a second year. He's going to the best "win now" situation and the best pro-style fit to showcase his skills for the draft. There may be a million other compelling reasons that can frame this whole thing, but at the end of the day, just admit it's the best fit and there's really no need for further explanation.
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This for me is a huge part of it. I mean...no one expects Diamond to play a second year. He's going to the best "win now" situation and the best pro-style fit to showcase his skills for the draft. There may be a million other compelling reasons that can frame this whole thing, but at the end of the day, just admit it's the best fit and there's really no need for further explanation.
Exactly ... Diamond's style of play, Turgeon's coaching ability, Melo Trimble , pre-season #3. These are the reasons that Diamond is going to Maryland
And they are good reasons to pick Maryland, nothing to be embarassed about. But all of Bob Stone's blather on and on about academics, and the strength of the academic advisors and the like rings hallow unless he is willing to say now that Diamond is staying in Maryland at least three years.
Further, if Maryland and its academic program are the reason you picked it, why sign a Grant-in-aid and not a NLI. So you can bail if Turgeon leaves or anything else unexpected happens.
I'm not buying any of what Bob Stone said.
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Let me play devil's advocate here ....
All these reason for attending Maryland are fine and sound If, repeat, if, your kid was planning on spending four years at the University and getting a degree.
In Diamond's case, he will be there about seven months and then all this goes away as he listens to his new agent and prepares for the 2016 NBA draft.
What is wrong with this rebuttal?
So, you're saying that you don't buy the claim that, "the discussion of being a 'one and done' has not even been talked about as a family."
Riiiiight. Overall, I thought it was a pretty nice article, but I just about spit out my coffee when I read that. If that hasn't been talked about, they're idiots.
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The article is a little fluffy, but this was interesting:
Diamond's father:
"We’re about Diamond being successful, being successful as a person. All these projections don’t mean anything. I have a saying that I use, ‘Men make plans and God just laughs.’ That’s my philosophy.”
Certainly Maryland is an attractive one and done option, but if Diamond's father is being genuine, I'm sure they are also considering what would happen if hoops goes away. If Diamond shreds his knee next year, is he going to be happy at the school for several years? Is the school going to develop him as a person and as a player?
Truthfully, if I was the parent of a recruit, I'd focus in on where my son/daughter wants to play for 4 years. If they end up leaving early, so be it... but planning on being one and done, having it not happen, and then being stuck at a school he really didn't like would be far worse for Diamond.
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The article is a little fluffy, but this was interesting:
Diamond's father:
"We’re about Diamond being successful, being successful as a person. All these projections don’t mean anything. I have a saying that I use, ‘Men make plans and God just laughs.’ That’s my philosophy.”
Certainly Maryland is an attractive one and done option, but if Diamond's father is being genuine, I'm sure they are also considering what would happen if hoops goes away. If Diamond shreds his knee next year, is he going to be happy at the school for several years? Is the school going to develop him as a person and as a player?
Truthfully, if I was the parent of a recruit, I'd focus in on where my son/daughter wants to play for 4 years. If they end up leaving early, so be it... but planning on being one and done, having it not happen, and then being stuck at a school he really didn't like would be far worse for Diamond.
Then why isn't Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford/Northwestern powerhouses like Duke?
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Then why isn't Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford/Northwestern powerhouses like Duke?
???
Why would you assume that players want to play at those schools for four years?
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???
Why would you assume that players want to play at those schools for four years?
Idk, because those are coveted degrees?
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Idk, because those are coveted degrees?
Let me clarify:
I don't think Stone's father's comments indicate that they are preparing for Diamond to become a scientist if he gets hurt.
I think they tried to pick a school and a situation where Diamond could excel in the short term (next season), as well as the long-term (if that becomes the choice). Lot's can happen in 1 season.
If I was advising a recruit, even a super elite recruit, I would not advise him/her to chose the option that is best for 1 season, but rather chose the best situation for both the short and long term.
As far as super academic schools not being the elite athletic schools, there is a lot to unpack.
From a macro level, those schools likely could be elite in athletics if they were really motivated to do so. Northwestern could pay Izzo 20million per season, and get him to come coach there. They could pay Chip Kelly 25million. They could build elite facilities, attract top players and win a ton of games. But, Northwestern isn't particularly motivated to do so. They don't particularly NEED to be elite in athletics. It's secondary to the school's overall goals.
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I know that one of the many reasons I chose Marquette was because of all the schools that accepted me, it was the farthest from home.
Is Marquette that much further than MATC??
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Let me clarify:
I don't think Stone's father's comments indicate that they are preparing for Diamond to become a scientist if he gets hurt.
I think they tried to pick a school and a situation where Diamond could excel in the short term (next season), as well as the long-term (if that becomes the choice). Lot's can happen in 1 season.
If I was advising a recruit, even a super elite recruit, I would not advise him/her to chose the option that is best for 1 season, but rather chose the best situation for both the short and long term.
As far as super academic schools not being the elite athletic schools, there is a lot to unpack.
From a macro level, those schools likely could be elite in athletics if they were really motivated to do so. Northwestern could pay Izzo 20million per season, and get him to come coach there. They could pay Chip Kelly 25million. They could build elite facilities, attract top players and win a ton of games. But, Northwestern isn't particularly motivated to do so. They don't particularly NEED to be elite in athletics. It's secondary to the school's overall goals.
I was not commenting about Stone per say. Let me try it this way.
In another post I noted that one of my kids is a high D1 athlete (track and cross country) at Northwestern. I have another one still in HS being recruited by high D1 schools for tennis. I say this not to brag but to show I speak from first hand knowledge.
Here is what I have seen ... once you get away from the revenue sports of football and basketball kids in non-revenue sports all want ivies/Stanford/Northwestern/Duke/ND ... basically the top academic schools in the country. It is their goal to use their excellence in sports to get into these top universities where they might not get into them straight up with a "normal" application.
And I have also noted, again from my observation, that about one-third of these kids never complete their full eligibility in the sport. I really think some of these kids (to use an example I'm thinking of, not one of mine) is to win the state meet and leverage that into a spot at Princeton and then basically quit the sport and become a "regular" Princeton student. I don't think their goal was to ever compete but to use athletic excellence to open doors at elite schools that would otherwise be shut. (FYI - my kids, as of now, intend on competing to the end of their eligibility)
Now enough kids in non-revenue sports demand elite universities that all these schools are very good at non-revenue sports. They win a lot of NCAA championships. You think Duke and John Hopkins are random schools that happen to be good at lacrosse. The academic reputations play a big role. Ditto Northwestern. Subtract Football and Basketball from the equation and Northwestern is about as good as any other B1G school at non-revenue sports. They have even had dynasties in tennis and field hockey in recent years, regularly winning NCAA championships.
Question, why don't we see this in the revenue sports? Why don't we see more top 100 to 150 kids leverage basketball and/or football into a spot at the Ivies? Will we ever see an Ivy ranked in D1 football? Go to a BCS bowl game? Get three or four schools in the basketball tourney? In the non-revenue sports, they are very good, Yale won the hockey NCAA last year. Note, kids might be doing it at Stanford/Duke/ND etc. because they are very good at these sports. But why don't we see more top 150 kids use athletic excellency in revenue sports to go to Harvard instead of (picking a name) Michigan? Has Michigan lost FB recruits to Harvard? And why don't we see more kids quit to be a student thinking "who cares I'm in Harvard!" Or does this happen and I'm not seeing it because from my observation, it does happen in the non-revenue sports a lot more than I thought before I started observing up close.
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I think most top 100 basketball players think they're gonna be playing pro basketball, so they won't need that Ivy League education to support themselves. Remember, these are all teenagers.
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Question, why don't we see this in the revenue sports? Why don't we see more top 100 to 150 kids leverage basketball and/or football into a spot at the Ivies?
Because there are tens of millions of dollars to be earned by going pro. These kids don't care about the education other than on the football field or basketball court because they see being coached on the field as their education.
Scouts will see you practice and see every play of your season if you play for Alabama. Not gonna happen at the Ivies unless you are the team star.
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The article is a little fluffy, but this was interesting:
Diamond's father:
"We’re about Diamond being successful, being successful as a person. All these projections don’t mean anything. I have a saying that I use, ‘Men make plans and God just laughs.’ That’s my philosophy.”
Certainly Maryland is an attractive one and done option, but if Diamond's father is being genuine, I'm sure they are also considering what would happen if hoops goes away. If Diamond shreds his knee next year, is he going to be happy at the school for several years? Is the school going to develop him as a person and as a player?
Truthfully, if I was the parent of a recruit, I'd focus in on where my son/daughter wants to play for 4 years. If they end up leaving early, so be it... but planning on being one and done, having it not happen, and then being stuck at a school he really didn't like would be far worse for Diamond.
If that's the case, he should be goin' to Georgia Tech, I'm really a badger fan?
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Narlens Noel shredded his knee and was still a lottery pick two years ago.
Joel Embiid shredded his knee last year and was still a lottery pick.
If Stone shreds his knee, he is probably still a lottery pick.
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Embiid didn't shred his knee, he had a stress fracture in his back.
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Embiid didn't shred his knee, he had a stress fracture in his back.
That can be worse than a knee....
No injury will stop Stone from being a high draft pick.
The only scenario that has him staying at Maryland more than one year is he wants too.
Even if he sucks he'll still get drafted. See Cliff Alexander at Kansas. He was ranked in the top 5 coming to the Jayhawks and he was awful and missed the last 7 games because of a NCAA investigation. Given all this he is still projected to get drafted between the late first round and mid second round.
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That can be worse than a knee....
No injury will stop Stone from being a high draft pick.
The only scenario that has him staying at Maryland more than one year is he wants too.
Even if he sucks he'll still get drafted. See Cliff Alexander at Kansas. He was ranked in the top 5 coming to the Jayhawks and he was awful and missed the last 7 games because of a NCAA investigation. Given all this he is still projected to get drafted between the late first round and mid second round.
Stone will get drafted regardless, but your own example shows that he could tumble quite a bit out of the lottery if he's a flop.
Off topic a bit, but Illinois fans must feel Alexander got a healthy dose of karma after his hat swap commitment.
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That can be worse than a knee....
No injury will stop Stone from being a high draft pick.
The only scenario that has him staying at Maryland more than one year is he wants too.
Even if he sucks he'll still get drafted. See Cliff Alexander at Kansas. He was ranked in the top 5 coming to the Jayhawks and he was awful and missed the last 7 games because of a NCAA investigation. Given all this he is still projected to get drafted between the late first round and mid second round.
Yes, but Noel played the majority of the season. If in the second day of practice, Stone has a season ending injury, he might not be a first round pick, in which case he may choose to come back and play as a soph and/or junior.
I don't say any of this as some sort of worry-wart kind of guy, I'm just saying that if Ammo was advising the recruit, I'd make sure they look a few years into the future and make sure they like what they see. 1 and done is a nice plan, but it can go sideways.
As far as Non-rev athletic programs, again, there is a lot to unpack. If Northwestern was spending as much as Alabama, had Chip Kelly as their coach, and had all of the same facilities as Bama, then you might see kids saying: "Hey, at the end of the day, Northwestern is just as good of a program, and a waayyyyy better school. I'm going there."
It's a bit of chicken or the egg. Is Johns Hopkins good at lacrosse because tops kids are going there for the academics, or is Johns Hopkins good at lacrosse because they have top coaches, good facilities AND good academics/school experience, so kids want to play there?
At the end of the day, in college athletics, there are kids on both ends of the spectrum. Some one and done kids are merely using school as a way to the professional ranks. On the other end, you have kids trying to use athletics to get them access to a top school.
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If that's the case, he should be goin' to Georgia Tech, I'm really a badger fan?
That's a mean word substitution.
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Yes, but Noel played the majority of the season. If in the second day of practice, Stone has a season ending injury, he might not be a first round pick, in which case he may choose to come back and play as a soph and/or junior.
You mean like Kyrie Irving who played like 8 or 9 games against "buy teams" and then missed nearly the entire season, he was a lottery pick.
Fact is Stone will be drafted next year on potential. Injury means he still has potential. Not a problem.
What hurts him is if it turns out he's really not that good. Does anyone really believe this will happen? I don't.
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Stone will be as good as he wants to be. Hasn't had to work his ass off up to now. If that motis operandi continues, he'll turn out to be pedestrian. Bottom line is he's likely to get paid 'cause it's a big man's game, ai na?