MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: WarriorPride68 on March 30, 2015, 10:08:38 AM
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Will the warriors be dancing again?
The last time Marquette missed the NCAA tourney atleast 3 consecutive years was 1998-2001.
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My first instinct is a flat out 'no'. However, two of this year's final four teams are getting huge contributions from freshmen. If, for example, Henry lives up to the hype, Haanif is the real deal and Carter is ready to lead from day 1...... still probably not, but MU's chances certainly improve.
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I fully expect us to be back next year. Assuming Luke recovers without issue and Henry lives up to hype I'd say Duane, Luke and Henry have what it takes to lead us back. Not a high seed or past the first round but back to the dance none the less. I think we will also benefit from a weaker big east next year.
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I fully expect us to be back next year. Assuming Luke recovers without issue and Henry lives up to hype I'd say Duane, Luke and Henry have what it takes to lead us back. Not a high seed or past the first round but back to the dance none the less. I think we will also benefit from a weaker big east next year.
If there is a weaker Big East it would be logical to assume they get less than six bids, possibly only 3 or 4. If that's the case then a 9-9 or 10-8 finish by Marquette probably doesn't get them in the tournament.
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If there is a weaker Big East it would be logical to assume they get less than six bids, possibly only 3 or 4. If that's the case then a 9-9 or 10-8 finish by Marquette probably doesn't get them in the tournament.
I agree it's logical to assume we get less bids but I think 4 bids and we'll get no4.
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I agree it's logical to assume we get less bids but I think 4 bids and we'll get no4.
Then you either beileve that Marquette will go at least 12-6 in conference with a good OOC resume (with a ton of inexperience) or that they'll win the Big East tournament.
I personally think it will have to be the latter, as I don't think there's enough pure talent to overcome the inconsistencies of such a young team.
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As things stand, no. But, I'll have a better idea once we know what the roster will look like.
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I am hopeful that we finish above .500 in BEast play. No tournament bid.
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Then you either beileve that Marquette will go at least 12-6 in conference with a good OOC resume (with a ton of inexperience) or that they'll win the Big East tournament.
I personally think it will have to be the latter, as I don't think there's enough pure talent to overcome the inconsistencies of such a young team.
If they have a good OOC resume, 12-6 won't be necessary. 10-8 might get it done.
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If there is a weaker Big East it would be logical to assume they get less than six bids, possibly only 3 or 4. If that's the case then a 9-9 or 10-8 finish by Marquette probably doesn't get them in the tournament.
The strength of the Big East will be more judged on how we do in the non conference again next year. If we have a great non con than 9-9 or 10 and 8 will get Big East teams in.
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Xavier had a pedestrian OOC resume, finished 9-9 in Big East feasting on the dregs, and still landed a 6 seed and rode that to wins over a tired Ole Miss team and a 14 seed for the conference's deepest run this March.
Literally, any damn thing can happen and we don't need to be world beaters to achieve a berth.
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Need one or two new players to make some type of difference. Or Ellenson will have to carry them on his back. I do not see it yet, to young.
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Then you either beileve that Marquette will go at least 12-6 in conference with a good OOC resume (with a ton of inexperience) or that they'll win the Big East tournament.
I personally think it will have to be the latter, as I don't think there's enough pure talent to overcome the inconsistencies of such a young team.
The way I see it we may have a young team, but these are all very talented players who signed up thinking they were coming to a powerhouse expecting to play in the tournament most their college career. This is the first year they have complete control over that and I don't expect them to fail when they're that hungry.
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Xavier had a pedestrian OOC resume, finished 9-9 in Big East feasting on the dregs, and still landed a 6 seed and rode that to wins over a tired Ole Miss team and a 14 seed for the conference's deepest run this March.
Literally, any damn thing can happen and we don't need to be world beaters to achieve a berth.
Yep. Just go look at the resumes for Ole Miss, UCLA, Boise State. Hell, Purdue lost to North Florida and Gardner Webb at home and earned a 9 seed. If we can go 9-3 non con 10-8 BE we'll probably be in.
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Need one or two new players to make some type of difference. Or Ellenson will have to carry them on his back. I do not see it yet, to young.
Yes, the difference would be a big ass PF so they don'y get demolished on offensive boards again.
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No. Way too many freshmen.
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Current roster, probably 50/50. But I don't expect the current roster to be our final roster.
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I think we go undefeated next year, and beat ND 87-5 in the NC.
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You bet we'll be dancing again. Henry is to special of a talent to not get back. And then you throw in hopefully improved guys like Fishcer, Wilson, Cohen, along with some of the other talented frosh playing supporting roles, it's going to be a fun season.
The last time we had a special talent making his debut at MU was of course D Wade in '02, and we were a 5 seed that year. Diener was just a frosh to that year.
I look for a similar result to '02, about a 5-7 seed.
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With the conference being weaker next year and the improvement of Duane/Luke and the addition of a high-level frosh and not to mention a full roster, I fully anticipate and expect us to compete for a spot in the NCAA tournament.
I think an improved/older Duane/Luke/JJJ is a very solid core. I believe that Henry will be a pleasant surprise as a freshman and the fact that we will have more depth to work with will give us a very competitive team.
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With the conference being weaker next year and the improvement of Duane/Luke and the addition of a high-level frosh and not to mention a full roster, I fully anticipate and expect us to compete for a spot in the NCAA tournament.
I think an improved/older Duane/Luke/JJJ is a very solid core. I believe that Henry will be a pleasant surprise as a freshman and the fact that we will have more depth to work with will give us a very competitive team.
Really, that's how you project him? A 6'10" guy who had his pick of any program in the country and is solidly on the NBA radar already, you see him as a "pleasant surprise"? OK.
The underselling of how good Ellenson is continues on this board. It's OK everyone, the Kentucky's and Duke's of the world don't have a monopoly on impact freshman who are great right out of the gate in college.
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Play to win one game at time. You only have five players on the court. Recruit the best and coach them to win. We can do it!
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Not quite yet. Show me the last three spots.
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I think we are an impact rebounder away from competing for an NCAA bid. Without one, I think the NIT will be the ceiling.
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You bet we'll be dancing again. Henry is to special of a talent to not get back. And then you throw in hopefully improved guys like Fishcer, Wilson, Cohen, along with some of the other talented frosh playing supporting roles, it's going to be a fun season.
The last time we had a special talent making his debut at MU was of course D Wade in '02, and we were a 5 seed that year. Diener was just a frosh to that year.
I look for a similar result to '02, about a 5-7 seed.
Ellenson is no D Wade
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Ellenson is no D Wade
Probably not. But he could be a Wesley Matthews or Lazar Hayward caliber player, and I think that'd be enough.
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Ellenson is no D Wade
I believe his impact will be. Their games are completely different of course, but again, there's a reason he has the NBA's attention, and why he's playing with the best of the best in anything you can be selected for at his age, including USA Basketball. He's a special player, like Wade was at MU.
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I'm optimistic MU can add another immediate transfer wing. Then they could have a legit chance.
Is Henry Ellenson considered a 1 & done?
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Probably not. But he could be a Wesley Matthews or Lazar Hayward caliber player, and I think that'd be enough.
OMG, I think my head's going to explode. No disrespect to Wes or 'Zar, but come on.
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OMG, I think my head's going to explode. No disrespect to Wes or 'Zar, but come on.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you think Ellenson next year is going to be better than Wesley and Lazar turned out to be? I meant what they turned into, not what they were as freshmen.
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you think Ellenson next year is going to be better than Wesley and Lazar turned out to be? I meant what they turned into, not what they were as freshmen.
His upside is without a doubt greater than where Wes and 'Zar were when they finished their MU careers.
'Zar put up 18ppg and 7.5 rbg as a senior. That's about what I envision for Henry next year, an 18 and 8 guy, throw in 4-5 assists per game. I definitely think he can match their production right away next year.
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you think Ellenson next year is going to be better than Wesley and Lazar turned out to be? I meant what they turned into, not what they were as freshmen.
A lot of people think so. He's currently going #6 in the DraftExpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Henry-Ellenson-7234/) 2016 Mock Draft. I don't think people around here really understand how good Ellenson is. Sure he could disappoint, but I dunno why people assume that will be the case. Just because he's a freshman? It's not 1970 anymore, freshman have huge impacts on the game nowadays.
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My first instinct is a flat out 'no'. However, two of this year's final four teams are getting huge contributions from freshmen. If, for example, Henry lives up to the hype, Haanif is the real deal and Carter is ready to lead from day 1...... still probably not, but MU's chances certainly improve.
Um, if all those guys pan out early on and Henry lives up to his hype, MU can make a serious run in the tournament assuming Wilson and Fischer progress as expected.
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His upside is without a doubt greater than where Wes and 'Zar were when they finished their MU careers.
'Zar put up 18ppg and 7.5 rbg as a senior. That's about what I envision for Henry next year, an 18 and 8 guy, throw in 4-5 assists per game. I definitely think he can match their production right away next year.
With the insane amount of talented freshman this year, name 1 freshman besides D'Angelo Russell who is even close to 18, 8, and 4.
Heck, how many players, freshman or not, in the country are there with those numbers?
Prepare to be let down. And this is coming from a guy who thinks King Henry will be a stud from day one.
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His upside is without a doubt greater than where Wes and 'Zar were when they finished their MU careers.
'Zar put up 18ppg and 7.5 rbg as a senior. That's about what I envision for Henry next year, an 18 and 8 guy, throw in 4-5 assists per game. I definitely think he can match their production right away next year.
I'm on the conservative side for sure but you really expect 18 ppg, 8 rpg, and 4.5 apg from a freshman? Not even Jahil Okafor put up those kinds of numbers and he's a Wooden Award finalist.
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I'd make a board life bet with Hutch that Marquette doesn't make the NCAAT with the roster as it currently sits.
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I'd make a board life bet with Hutch that Marquette doesn't make the NCAAT with the roster as it currently sits.
I'd make the same bet that we'll never find out.
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Pull out the cliches. Play to win one game at time. You only have five players on the court. Recruit the best and coach them to win. We can do it!
FIFY
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A lot of people think so. He's currently going #6 in the DraftExpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Henry-Ellenson-7234/) 2016 Mock Draft. I don't think people around here really understand how good Ellenson is. Sure he could disappoint, but I dunno why people assume that will be the case. Just because he's a freshman? It's not 1970 anymore, freshman have huge impacts on the game nowadays.
#6? Yikes, here I am just hoping he isn't a one-and-done
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We still have 3 slots to fill. Too early to tell.
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I'm on the conservative side for sure but you really expect 18 ppg, 8 rpg, and 4.5 apg from a freshman? Not even Jahil Okafor put up those kinds of numbers and he's a Wooden Award finalist.
One could argue that Okafor has to share the stats sheet with a half-dozen McDonald's All-Americans while Henry will be MU's undisputed first (and second) option.
But even then ... as another poster said, the Ohio State kid was the only freshman to come close to those stats and he pretty much shot every time the ball touched his hands.
I haven't seen Henry play even one second of basketball, so I will defer to those who have seen him a lot ... and I hope they are right. If so, and if a couple of the other freshmen also do well, and if Wojo brings in another contributor or two, and if ...
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I am hoping for a NIT bid . If we can win some close ones, maybe the big dance.
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One could argue that Okafor has to share the stats sheet with a half-dozen McDonald's All-Americans while Henry will be MU's undisputed first (and second) option.
But even then ... as another poster said, the Ohio State kid was the only freshman to come close to those stats and he pretty much shot every time the ball touched his hands.
I haven't seen Henry play even one second of basketball, so I will defer to those who have seen him a lot ... and I hope they are right. If so, and if a couple of the other freshmen also do well, and if Wojo brings in another contributor or two, and if ...
One could also argue that Henry will get repeated double teams and be the focus of every team's defense because there aren't other All Americans on the floor.
Its a crapshoot!
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I'm on the conservative side for sure but you really expect 18 ppg, 8 rpg, and 4.5 apg from a freshman? Not even Jahil Okafor put up those kinds of numbers and he's a Wooden Award finalist.
You don't say? Interesting, I see Okafor's at 17.5 ppg, and 8.7 rbg for the season. You're right, way out in left field with my prediction.
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You don't say? Interesting, I see Okafor's at 17.5 ppg, and 8.7 rbg for the season. You're right, way out in left field with my prediction.
Yeah, it is. The kid was considered to already be better than Jabari when playing up on Jabari's AAU team. There is nowhere near the kind of hype (or production on the USA Team level) around Hank as there is around Jahlil. Hank is not Jahlil. Epecting 18, 8, and 4.5 from a freshman is absurd.
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One could argue that Okafor has to share the stats sheet with a half-dozen McDonald's All-Americans while Henry will be MU's undisputed first (and second) option.
But even then ... as another poster said, the Ohio State kid was the only freshman to come close to those stats and he pretty much shot every time the ball touched his hands.
I haven't seen Henry play even one second of basketball, so I will defer to those who have seen him a lot ... and I hope they are right. If so, and if a couple of the other freshmen also do well, and if Wojo brings in another contributor or two, and if ...
Not buying that Henry will be first and second option next year. Of course he will be an option but it is likely that Fischer will be one of those options, and so will Duane. While we all hope that Henry will do well, he will be a freshman, and everybody knows that many freshmen require some getting used to at the next level. Playing at Rice Lake and playing at the Beast level are two different animals.
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You don't say? Interesting, I see Okafor's at 17.5 ppg, and 8.7 rbg for the season. You're right, way out in left field with my prediction.
So you expect Henry to do .5 more ppg than a recruit who is much much much more heralded than him? If Henry can put up 13ppg with good efficiency with Duane and Luke putting up mid teens I'll be happy.
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Yeah, Wade and Boxer - if he's not as heralded (Boxer) and not as much hype (WadesWorld) surrounding Henry, I guess you two must be right. Being heralded and hyped more than Henry ends the argument and proves Henry is clearly inferior to Okafor, and incapable of coming close to his freshman stats at Duke.
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Yeah, it is. The kid was considered to already be better than Jabari when playing up on Jabari's AAU team. There is nowhere near the kind of hype (or production on the USA Team level) around Hank as there is around Jahlil. Hank is not Jahlil. Epecting 18, 8, and 4.5 from a freshman is absurd.
You're right, expecting those numbers from a freshman is absurd. Special talents like Henry are leaps and bounds ahead of your typical freshman, and we all know it.
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All I know is that if we only get one year from Henry, we sure as hell better make the tournament next year.
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Depends on how Wojo does in free agency. But I think we'll have a much better team than this year in any event.
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I don't know what the last 3 slots turn into, but if they turn into what I think they do....we are dancing next year. I also think Henry is a 2 and done. I don't think he goes next year and assuming things go as expected(which they never do and remember Murphy was an optimist) dancing next year and very deep run in 2017.
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10 seed
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Yeah, Wade and Boxer - if he's not as heralded (Boxer) and not as much hype (WadesWorld) surrounding Henry, I guess you two must be right. Being heralded and hyped more than Henry ends the argument and proves Henry is clearly inferior to Okafor.
Yeah... I don't know how to reach you. But I guess since being more heralded by professionals means nothing why stop at Henry? I expect Carter or Anim to put up Mcneal numbers! Scouts may not be always correct but Okafor would have been a straight to pros talent Henry would need a year. He's special, I expect great things, particularly toward the end of the year but on a game by game basis? Kevin Love put up 17.5, even Patrick ewing was 12.7, Gred oden 15.7, Chris webber 15.5. Unless you're willing to make the statement that Henry is going to put up Durant or Carmelo numbers (I'll put that as my signature) then look at the facts that it doesn't happen often.
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You're right, expecting those numbers from a freshman is absurd. Special talents like Henry are leaps and bounds ahead of your typical freshman, and we all know it.
Yes, we do know he's leaps and bounds ahead of your typical freshman. Which is why I expect about 13, 5.5, and 2 from him. Do you really think Hank is going to be better next year thank Frank Kaminsky is this year? You're reaching if you do.
Completely unreasonable. I expect him to be better than top 30 recruits JJJ and Vander Blue. Better doesn't mean 18, 8, 4.5. Absurd.
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Bagpiping & Wade -
I guess we'll have to wait until next year, because until then it's speculation. And the 18, 8, 4-5, I do believe he can do, but I also didn't state that as an absolute either if you go back and read what I wrote. I do think he'll come in no lower than 15 ppg, no lower than 6 rbg, and no lower than 2.5 apg. But those are basement level that I see him getting next year. I still believe he'll end up at or much closer to 18,8, and 4 than his bottom performance level.
Wade - 13, 5.5, and 2 - Jerel was 11, 4.5, and 2.7. So you're projecting a McNeal like frosh season? Again, no disrespect to Jerel, he had a solid freshman year, but the bar is without a doubt so much higher with this kid immediately putting on the blue and gold.
I think we all can agree it's going to be a ton of fun to watch.
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I don't really care if we do next year but show me progress. 18-20 wins would be a fair bar.
We didn't exactly lose studs in Carlino, Anderson, Forgothisname.
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You don't say? Interesting, I see Okafor's at 17.5 ppg, and 8.7 rbg for the season. You're right, way out in left field with my prediction.
You also said 4-5 assists per game. Okafor is 1.4 apg IIRC.
Even without the assists, you really want to put Hernry's bar at Jahil Okafor? Arguably one of the most dominant freshman of the modern era of basketball?
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No
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I just wish we had guards that could shoot like Dienet or DJO. That would make Henry and Luke much better.