MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: keefe on February 03, 2015, 11:02:32 AM
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Anyone who has not vaccinated their children should be subject to severe penalties. How in God's name is Jenny McCarthy in any way a thought leader on scientific investigation? The masses are asses...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/us/a-discredited-vaccine-studys-continuing-impact-on-public-health.html?_r=0
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http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/
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I am in favor of charging anti-vaxxers with reckless homicide if they fail to vaccinate their kid who ends up dying from a preventable disease. Same if their kid gets and spreads that disease to a different kid. I would also charge anti-vaxxers with child neglect and stick those kids right in foster care.
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Anyone who has not vaccinated their children should be subject to severe penalties. How in God's name is Jenny McCarthy in any way a thought leader on scientific investigation? The masses are asses...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/us/a-discredited-vaccine-studys-continuing-impact-on-public-health.html?_r=0
It is absolutely amazing to me that this has become a thing. Honestly, vaccinations should be a requirement for participation in a civilized society. It's not a thing people can choose to participate in....if the vast majority of a population are not vaccinated then even the people who are vaccinated are at risk. SHARED IMMUNITY people, learn what it is!!!
I grew up a military brat and had to be vaccinated to the hilt and any time we showed up at a new base the first thing we had to show when going to medical for the first time was the vaccination records, I assume its the same in the civilian world, yes?
To make it MU related, anyone know if MU requires you to be vaccinated, I don't remember. If not we should.
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Can't governors just throw them in a tent next to the hospital?
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Here is another great article about the profile of some of these anti-vaxers. Decisions made after "meditating" and based on feelings instead of facts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/us/vaccine-critics-turn-defensive-over-measles.html?referrer= (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/us/vaccine-critics-turn-defensive-over-measles.html?referrer=)
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It is absolutely amazing to me that this has become a thing. Honestly, vaccinations should be a requirement for participation in a civilized society. It's not a thing people can choose to participate in....if the vast majority of a population are not vaccinated then even the people who are vaccinated are at risk. SHARED IMMUNITY people, learn what it is!!!
I grew up a military brat and had to be vaccinated to the hilt and any time we showed up at a new base the first thing we had to show when going to medical for the first time was the vaccination records, I assume its the same in the civilian world, yes?
To make it MU related, anyone know if MU requires you to be vaccinated, I don't remember. If not we should.
I think so, I remember getting a bunch of shots the summer before freshman year in 98.
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I love the comment at 10:40... Epidemiologists can put a ring on the map around any Whole Foods and identify a concentration of anti-vaxxers
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Finally, something liberal hippy dippies and tea party folks can unite behind.
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To make it MU related, anyone know if MU requires you to be vaccinated, I don't remember. If not we should.
I think recommended, but not mandatory. I had a roommate that claimed to not be vaccinated.
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It is absolutely amazing to me that this has become a thing. Honestly, vaccinations should be a requirement for participation in a civilized society. It's not a thing people can choose to participate in....if the vast majority of a population are not vaccinated then even the people who are vaccinated are at risk. SHARED IMMUNITY people, learn what it is!!!
The Government cannot tell me what to do. Why do you hate Freedom?
Yes, I'm totally kidding
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The Government cannot tell me what to do. Why do you hate Freedom?
I can't possibly hate freedom, I enjoy collecting freedom points every time USMNT scores.
Side serious note, a representative government is for the collective betterment of all. The is no credible downside to vaccinations, therefore ultimately vaccinating everyone is for the betterment of all....closest thing I've seen to a no brainer requirement.
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I can't possibly hate freedom, I enjoy collecting freedom points every time USMNT scores.
Side serious note, a representative government is for the collective betterment of all. The is no credible downside to vaccinations, therefore ultimately vaccinating everyone is for the betterment of all....closest thing I've seen to a no brainer requirement.
What is the exchange rate of Schrute bucks to Freedom Points?
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Finally, something liberal hippy dippies and tea party folks can unite behind.
I actually find this very funny. It's essentially the left's version of science denial. Where most of this is catching on is the uber-rich counties in California with the super granola, all-natural BS liberals.
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What is the exchange rate of Schrute bucks to Freedom Points?
6 - 9
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Side serious note, a representative government is for the collective betterment of all. There is no credible downside to vaccinations, therefore ultimately vaccinating everyone is for the betterment of all....closest thing I've seen to a no brainer requirement.
Actually there is... it means that natural selection won't take care of Jenny McCarthy for us.
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I actually find this very funny. It's essentially the left's version of science denial. Where most of this is catching on is the uber-rich counties in California with the super granola, all-natural BS liberals.
I actually was going to make this point but decided I didn't want to light a firebomb on this thread....but you are correct. "Right denies climate change"(I mean that it is happening, not root cause), "left denies validity of vaccinations".
Both are scientifically verifiable but each group chooses to ignore facts.
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Don't care what anyone does if it doesn't affect me. This does. I'll stick the needles in them myself, the bastards.
What is the exchange rate of Schrute bucks to Freedom Points?
On a tangent, Rainn Wilson's new show is pretty good. I can't really shake the association of him as Dwight, but that almost makes it better.
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Actually there is... it means that natural selection won't take care of Jenny McCarthy for us.
Not to be nitpicky, but Jenny McCarthy has already procreated so we can't stop that now....it's her children's progeny that we would be propping up.....your point is well taken. ;D
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Here's a timeline of the recent measles outbreak. Scary stuff.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/measles-epidemic-2015-a-timeline-of-the-outbreak,37870/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:2:Default (http://www.theonion.com/articles/measles-epidemic-2015-a-timeline-of-the-outbreak,37870/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:2:Default)
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Not to be nitpicky, but Jenny McCarthy has already procreated so we can't stop that now....it's her children's progeny that we would be propping up.....your point is well taken. ;D
I know that, technically, my argument carries a fatal flaw... just like the kids of an anti-vaxxer.
Thank you. I'll be here all week.
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Under the ACA, health insurers can charge up to a 50% surcharge for tobacco usage.
The same calculation should be made for insuring the unvaccinated.
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I actually was going to make this point but decided I didn't want to light a firebomb on this thread....but you are correct. "Right denies climate change"(I mean that it is happening, not root cause), "left denies validity of vaccinations".
Both are scientifically verifiable but each group chooses to ignore facts.
Yep. Kind of a sad state of affairs when you think about it.
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Anyone who has not vaccinated their children should be subject to severe penalties. How in God's name is Jenny McCarthy in any way a thought leader on scientific investigation? The masses are asses...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/us/a-discredited-vaccine-studys-continuing-impact-on-public-health.html?_r=0
You realize we have a lot of people that are "thought leaders" on things that people pay attention to. Some are even elected over and over again.
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Honestly, is this just hitting the news or something out there? This has been going on in this whack job state for years. My wife and I were given horrid looks when we took our kids to get vaccinated, and both my kids are teens. Been the "deal" here for as long as I can remember. My wife is the daughter of a Marquette Med School educated doctor, and we basically told these people to pound sand. After living in and visiting several 3rd world countries and seeing some of the stuff those kids and people in general go through, no way in hell we wouldn't vaccinate our kids.
Don't forget the ability of people, the press, social media, etc to perpetuate stats that become anchored in some reality. Whether it's 50% of marriages end in divorce (absolute bullshyte), or 9/11 was an inside job, or vaccinations cause autism, etc, etc.
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Honestly, is this just hitting the news or something out there? This has been going on in this whack job state for years. My wife and I were given horrid looks when we took our kids to get vaccinated, and both my kids are teens. Been the "deal" here for as long as I can remember. My wife is the daughter of a Marquette Med School educated doctor, and we basically told these people to pound sand. After living in and visiting several 3rd world countries and seeing some of the stuff those kids and people in general go through, no way in hell we wouldn't vaccinate our kids.
Don't forget the ability of people, the press, social media, etc to perpetuate stats that become anchored in some reality. Whether it's 50% of marriages end in divorce (absolute bullshyte), or 9/11 was an inside job, or vaccinations cause autism, etc, etc.
Chicos, I sincerely love it when we can agree on something.
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It's basically the same as drunk driving and injuring someone else. I'm not sure why there is such a debate anymore.
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I actually was going to make this point but decided I didn't want to light a firebomb on this thread....but you are correct. "Right denies climate change"(I mean that it is happening, not root cause), "left denies validity of vaccinations".
Both are scientifically verifiable but each group chooses to ignore facts.
Also Portland and their decades long fight against putting flouride in their water!
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I actually was going to make this point but decided I didn't want to light a firebomb on this thread....but you are correct. "Right denies climate change"(I mean that it is happening, not root cause), "left denies validity of vaccinations".
Both are scientifically verifiable but each group chooses to ignore facts.
Anti-vaxxers bring together <fill in your own word> from both fringes.
Far Left "Whole Fooders" & Far right anti gov't "get out of my businessers".
An amazing collection of "geniuses" presided over by the renowned academician Jenny McCarthy.
(Not to mention the amazing number of quote signs in a post without quotes from anyone.)
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Anti-vaxxers are not unique to the fringes of the left or the right. They are distributed across the political spectrum
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/eGPieWNoAdbnwvUM7mWgFPah-Fc=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3366584/Screen_Shot_2015-02-02_at_8.52.15_AM.0.png)
and, support for vaccines is bipartisan
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/66lFw-saj6flNyyRI0jtcVInEmE=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3370482/Vaccination_poll.0.png)
and, there's no red-state/blue-state breakdown in which states are loose or tight on requiring vaccines
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/KxiBym7BTOMZX76ppKYPbpBXI3U=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3370486/vaccine_map.0.png)
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Anti-vaxxers are not unique to the fringes of the left or the right. They are distributed across the political spectrum
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/eGPieWNoAdbnwvUM7mWgFPah-Fc=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3366584/Screen_Shot_2015-02-02_at_8.52.15_AM.0.png)
And there-in lies both the problem and the solution. The anti-vaxxer coalition is broad so it's hard to nail one core belief to refute. However, the broad coalition is also very much in the minority across the spectrum, so should some leadership on something show up it would be very easy to deliver a mandate for the vaxxer position.
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It is absolutely amazing to me that this has become a thing. Honestly, vaccinations should be a requirement for participation in a civilized society. It's not a thing people can choose to participate in....if the vast majority of a population are not vaccinated then even the people who are vaccinated are at risk. SHARED IMMUNITY people, learn what it is!!!
I grew up a military brat and had to be vaccinated to the hilt and any time we showed up at a new base the first thing we had to show when going to medical for the first time was the vaccination records, I assume its the same in the civilian world, yes?
To make it MU related, anyone know if MU requires you to be vaccinated, I don't remember. If not we should.
We were certainly required to provide MU with the kids' medical records prior to Frosh year. I can't recall if prior vaccination was a requirement or merely a very strong recommendation.
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Anti-vaxxers are not unique to the fringes of the left or the right. They are distributed across the political spectrum
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/eGPieWNoAdbnwvUM7mWgFPah-Fc=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3366584/Screen_Shot_2015-02-02_at_8.52.15_AM.0.png)
and, support for vaccines is bipartisan
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/66lFw-saj6flNyyRI0jtcVInEmE=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3370482/Vaccination_poll.0.png)
and, there's no red-state/blue-state breakdown in which states are loose or tight on requiring vaccines
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/KxiBym7BTOMZX76ppKYPbpBXI3U=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3370486/vaccine_map.0.png)
Mississippi and West Virginia are the only states who require immunization without exception. The rest of the country is, at some level at least, anti-science. Go figure.
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It's not just vaccinations. There are people fighting to increase other diseases besides just childhood illnesses.
Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.) said that he’s okay with the idea of service industry workers returning to work without washing their hands after touching their unmentionables, as long as customers are made aware of the situation.
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Mississippi and West Virginia are the only states who require immunization without exception. The rest of the country is, at some level at least, anti-science. Go figure.
To be fair, science hasn't reached Mississippi and West Virginia yet. Give it time.
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Here's what I don't get. (Actually, I do.)
In the last 100 years we've all but eliminated scores of horrible diseases that absolutely destroyed families in our grandparents and great grandparents generation. Almost everyone had a child or sibling that was taken from them by these killers. Now, at least until recently, such deaths all but unheard of. I don't personally know of a single example of a child lost to polio, whooping cough, etc. But ask my mom (MU Nursing '54) what vaccinations meant for a society and you'd get a lengthy discussion if she were still alive. How quickly we forget.
And this is not in any way to diminish the horrible scourge that is today's autism. It affects my own extended family. We must find answers. But crazy pseudo-science isn't the place to begin the search.
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It's not just vaccinations. There are people fighting to increase other diseases besides just childhood illnesses.
Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.) said that he’s okay with the idea of service industry workers returning to work without washing their hands after touching their unmentionables, as long as customers are made aware of the situation.
Seriously.... come on now. Quit with the 10-second soundbites that, I am willing to bet, are being taken drastically out of context. We're trying to have a civil, educated and informed discussion here on how Jenny McCarthy is unequivocally a dumb whore.
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Here's what I don't get. (Actually, I do.)
In the last 100 years we've all but eliminated scores of horrible diseases that absolutely destroyed families in our grandparents and great grandparents generation. Almost everyone had a child or sibling that was taken from them by these killers. Now, at least until recently, such deaths all but unheard of. I don't personally know of a single example of a child lost to polio, whooping cough, etc. But ask my mom (MU Nursing '54) what vaccinations meant for a society and you'd get a lengthy discussion if she were still alive. How quickly we forget.
That really is it. Since many of us weren't around to witness those diseases, we take vaccinations for granted.
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Seriously.... come on now. Quit with the 10-second soundbites that, I am willing to bet, are being taken drastically out of context. We're trying to have a civil, educated and informed discussion here on how Jenny McCarthy is unequivocally a dumb whore.
http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Anti-Vaccine_History.html
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Seriously.... come on now. Quit with the 10-second soundbites that, I am willing to bet, are being taken drastically out of context. We're trying to have a civil, educated and informed discussion here on how Jenny McCarthy is unequivocally a dumb whore.
Well....perhaps not.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2015/02/03/the-next-public-health-debate-hand-washing/?tid=sm_fb
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Anti-vaxxers are not unique to the fringes of the left or the right. They are distributed across the political spectrum
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/eGPieWNoAdbnwvUM7mWgFPah-Fc=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3366584/Screen_Shot_2015-02-02_at_8.52.15_AM.0.png)
and, support for vaccines is bipartisan
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/66lFw-saj6flNyyRI0jtcVInEmE=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3370482/Vaccination_poll.0.png)
and, there's no red-state/blue-state breakdown in which states are loose or tight on requiring vaccines
(https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/KxiBym7BTOMZX76ppKYPbpBXI3U=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3370486/vaccine_map.0.png)
I never thought I'd say this, but West Virginia and Mississippi really have their sh*t together.
If anybody around here is anti-vax, please send me a PM and let me know so I can immediately ignore you and disregard anything you ever post.
Thanks in advance,
Amo.
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A relative of mine and his wife are two of the most intelligent people I know, and are reasonable people on any other topic. But I know they are likely to go to their graves believing that vaccinations caused their son's autism.
They have bought into Andrew Wakefield's crazy crap hook, line, and sinker, and have spent tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on snake-oil treatment (chelation, hyperbaric chambers, etc.). If I ask them if his theories or so sound, why did he have his medical license yanked for research fraud, they respond with, "Big Pharma has a lot of money and influence, and they have their financial interests in vaccinations to protect."
It has to be hard to deal with the fact that no one knows what causes autism, because if that's the case, it is next to impossible to come up with a cure. That is the only thing I can think of that would to cause them to hold on to this wacky belief.
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That really is it. Since many of us weren't around to witness those diseases, we take vaccinations for granted.
I did see a quote from someone, can't find it, but advocating for vaccinations is like advocating for alien prevention. The current decision makers (gen X, Y, and millennial) have never experienced why vaccines are so important so they don't see a need to do it.
Additionally, we have done a really poor job of educating the public. Everyone assumes if you get a vaccine shot you can't get the disease which is not true. If you have enough exposure, a vaccine can be overwhelmed and you get the disease as well. Everyone treats it as if it's a choice that impacts only them
<insert millennial selfishness joke here>
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Well....perhaps not.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2015/02/03/the-next-public-health-debate-hand-washing/?tid=sm_fb
Ugh.
I like libertarian and free market principles, but this is just stupid.
Also, it's a bit ironic that he will give restaurants the freedom to determine their own policy, but will legally require that they post a sign about their handwashing policy. Not exactly free market.
Senator Tillis, Who you crappin'?
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Last night on CNN Tonight, they had two pediatricians debate the issue. I was shocked to learn that there is actually a licensed physician in America who'd be willing to speak in support of the anti-vax crowd. Not surprisingly, he was thoroughly out-debated by the pro-vaccine doc. His entire argument was based on the notion of informed consent. Whenever they'd bring up science, stats, facts showing that vaccines implicate different public health issues than most procedures, he'd just repeat "but parents have the right to give informed consent." He even conceded that there is no provable link between vaccines and autism...but still contended that parents should have the right to decline "like they can for any other medical procedure."
Dude should have his license pulled.
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A relative of mine and his wife are two of the most intelligent people I know, and are reasonable people on any other topic. But I know they are likely to go to their graves believing that vaccinations caused their son's autism.
They have bought into Andrew Wakefield's crazy crap hook, line, and sinker, and have spent tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on snake-oil treatment (chelation, hyperbaric chambers, etc.). If I ask them if his theories or so sound, why did he have his medical license yanked for research fraud, they respond with, "Big Pharma has a lot of money and influence, and they have their financial interests in vaccinations to protect."
It has to be hard to deal with the fact that no one knows what causes autism, because if that's the case, it is next to impossible to come up with a cure. That is the only thing I can think of that would to cause them to hold on to this wacky belief.
This just makes me sad. I'm sorry for your relative. But I am incensed at the snake oil salesmen, quack-cure peddlers, and deluded pseudo-scientists. They're nothing but misery vultures and the lowest form of humanity.
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I did see a quote from someone, can't find it, but advocating for vaccinations is like advocating for alien prevention. The current decision makers (gen X, Y, and millennial) have never experienced why vaccines are so important so they don't see a need to do it.
Additionally, we have done a really poor job of educating the public. Everyone assumes if you get a vaccine shot you can't get the disease which is not true. If you have enough exposure, a vaccine can be overwhelmed and you get the disease as well. Everyone treats it as if it's a choice that impacts only them
<insert millennial selfishness joke here>
This is exactly right. I mean, just think of how many intelligent, well-rounded people still believe that the flu shot protects against the stomach flu.
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A relative of mine and his wife are two of the most intelligent people I know, and are reasonable people on any other topic. But I know they are likely to go to their graves believing that vaccinations caused their son's autism.
They have bought into Andrew Wakefield's crazy crap hook, line, and sinker, and have spent tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on snake-oil treatment (chelation, hyperbaric chambers, etc.). If I ask them if his theories or so sound, why did he have his medical license yanked for research fraud, they respond with, "Big Pharma has a lot of money and influence, and they have their financial interests in vaccinations to protect."
It has to be hard to deal with the fact that no one knows what causes autism, because if that's the case, it is next to impossible to come up with a cure. That is the only thing I can think of that would to cause them to hold on to this wacky belief.
Part of this (to bring it back to basketball and stats) is media putting stats out there without also providing context. They report things like instances of autism increasing by 244% in the past 20 years, but without the context of A) autism "definition" changing B) awareness of what autism is and testing for it. Far more people are diagnosed with it than before because we know what the hell it is and what to look for. I can't prove it of course but I suspect the same ratio of people have it now as 20-30 years ago, just the diagnostics have caught up with the disorder.
The autism spectrum is so vast that half the engineers I work with are probably on it. Autism, while terrible, has become wildly over-diagnosed (this periods ADHD) and it becomes a boogyman.
My two nephews (5 and 2) were both "diagnosed" with autism when they were 18 months(family lives in Portland of course). Both diagnoses have been reversed since.
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The autism spectrum is so vast that half the engineers I work with are probably on it. Autism, while terrible, has become wildly over-diagnosed (this periods ADHD) and it becomes a boogyman.
My two nephews (5 and 2) were both "diagnosed" with autism when they were 18 months(family lives in Portland of course). Both diagnoses have been reversed since.
Unfortunately, the case I am talking about is pretty severe - and I mean "kid from St. Elsewhere" severe.
But I agree in general that it is way over-diagnosed. No kid is a little a-hole anymore. Now he has Asperger's.
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No kid is a little a-hole anymore.
Mine are... occasionally.
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Additionally, we have done a really poor job of educating the public. Everyone assumes if you get a vaccine shot you can't get the disease which is not true. If you have enough exposure, a vaccine can be overwhelmed and you get the disease as well. Everyone treats it as if it's a choice that impacts only them
<insert millennial selfishness joke here>
Interesting that you say that. In the Fall of my Freshman year at Marquette a strain of measles hit the campus. It somehow morphed with the 'killed' vaccine those of us born in the early 1960s received as infants. About 10 students became ill. One was hospitalized for 9-10 days.
I cooked away for those days at 105 degrees, packed in ice, just below a temp that might have caused real brain damage. (Chick might say it happened anyway.) I remember very little except that a very kind nurse (MU?) smuggled me a beer for the Sunday Packer game (on my 8th day in isolation) when I was feeling just a bit better. Being seriously ill sucks.
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Interesting that you say that. In the Fall of my Freshman year at Marquette a strain of measles hit the campus. It somehow morphed with the 'killed' vaccine those of us born in the early 1960s received as infants. About 10 students became ill. One was hospitalized for 9-10 days.
I cooked away for those days at 105 degrees, packed in ice, just below a temp that might have caused real brain damage. (Chick might say it happened anyway.) I remember very little except that a very kind nurse (MU?) smuggled me a beer for the Sunday Packer game (on my 8th day in isolation) when I was feeling just a bit better. Being seriously ill sucks.
I was hoping this would end with...
I remember very little except that a very kind nurse (MU?) smuggled me a beer for the Sunday Packer game (on my 8th day in isolation) and we've been together ever since.
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Ugh.
I like libertarian and free market principles, but this is just stupid.
Also, it's a bit ironic that he will give restaurants the freedom to determine their own policy, but will legally require that they post a sign about their handwashing policy. Not exactly free market.
Senator Tillis, Who you crappin'?
My point was simply to point out that when it comes to health issues, there is no shortage of stupidity.
When something tragic happens, we search endlessly for any excuse to grab onto, whether logical or silly.
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This is exactly right. I mean, just think of how many intelligent, well-rounded people still believe that the flu shot protects against the stomach flu.
Especially considering there is no such thing as stomach flu.
ah... that means the shots must be working!
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There's a UCLA pediatrician that was quoted as saying that the only thing that will put a stop to the anti-vaxxing fashion trend is an A-list star anti-vaxxer's kid dying.
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There's a UCLA pediatrician that was quoted as saying that the only thing that will put a stop to the anti-vaxxing fashion trend is an A-list star anti-vaxxer's kid dying.
I remember when Gary Busey was the big celebrity spokesperson for the repeal of motorcycle helmet laws.
That worked out really well for him....
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There's a UCLA pediatrician that was quoted as saying that the only thing that will put a stop to the anti-vaxxing fashion trend is an A-list star anti-vaxxer's kid dying.
I don't know if that would even work. Jenny McCarthy's kid was "misdiagnosed" with autism...wildly under reported.
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I don't know if that would even work. Jenny McCarthy's kid was "misdiagnosed" with autism...wildly under reported.
Yes, he is an Indigo Child....whatever the hell that means.
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Yes, he is an Indigo Child....whatever the hell that means.
He's a lesbian singer?
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As most of you know, my four year old son is fighting leukemia. After he gets better, and goes back to school this coming fall, going forward, we will home school him if we learn anyone at his school is unvaccinated.
This subject gets me very riled up. For people going through chemo that have virtually no immune system, this pisses me off that people can be so ignorant and quite frankly selfish.
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As most of you know, my four year old son is fighting leukemia. After he gets better, and goes back to school this coming fall, going forward, we will home school him if we learn anyone at his school is unvaccinated.
This subject gets me very riled up. For people going through chemo that have virtually no immune system, this pisses me off that people can be so ignorant and quite frankly selfish.
This among many, many other reasons. Vaccinate your kids people.
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Here's an interesting cultural topic: the anti-vax parents would rather chance having their child get sick/suffer/due from a preventable disease than have that child possibly become autistic but live a long life.
Discuss.
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I actually was going to make this point but decided I didn't want to light a firebomb on this thread....but you are correct. "Right denies climate change"(I mean that it is happening, not root cause), "left denies validity of vaccinations".
Both are scientifically verifiable but each group chooses to ignore facts.
I dunno about that I fall in the way left category and all of my liberal friends and family think the whole anti-Vax movement is the dumbest thing they've ever heard
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Here's an interesting cultural topic: the anti-vax parents would rather chance having their child get sick/suffer/due from a preventable disease than have that child possibly become autistic but live a long life.
Discuss.
Except that theory has been scientifically disproven.
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Except that theory has been scientifically disproven.
I understand. But from their viewpoint, it hasn't. So to them living with autism is potentially worse than dying from a preventable disease.
It's just interesting
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I understand. But from their viewpoint, it hasn't. So to them living with autism is potentially worse than dying from a preventable disease.
It's just interesting
I can see that being a difficult dilemma for people who don't accept or understand the scientific evidence. But when the evidence is so overwhelming and people are still making decisions that put others at risk for no good reason, it's time for the government to take over and make the decision for them. And I HATE big government.
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I was hoping this would end with...
I remember very little except that a very kind nurse (MU?) smuggled me a beer for the Sunday Packer game (on my 8th day in isolation) and we've been together ever since.
Haha. Both my daughter and mom are/were outstanding Marquette nurses. Me? I hate doing taxes so scoped out the ACCO Dept. ;)
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So having Botox and leaky silicone fun bags in your body while pregnant is healthier in the prevention of autism than the vaccination of your child? Gotta love those Mother Mac girls.
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Here's what I don't get. (Actually, I do.)
In the last 100 years we've all but eliminated scores of horrible diseases that absolutely destroyed families in our grandparents and great grandparents generation. Almost everyone had a child or sibling that was taken from them by these killers. Now, at least until recently, such deaths all but unheard of. I don't personally know of a single example of a child lost to polio, whooping cough, etc. But ask my mom (MU Nursing '54) what vaccinations meant for a society and you'd get a lengthy discussion if she were still alive. How quickly we forget.
And this is not in any way to diminish the horrible scourge that is today's autism. It affects my own extended family. We must find answers. But crazy pseudo-science isn't the place to begin the search.
Of course we're doing a good job with some of our lax immigration enforcement of allowing some of that to come back to the U.S....which is nice.
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Of course we're doing a good job with some of our lax immigration enforcement of allowing some of that to come back to the U.S....which is nice.
Hey. We agree twice in one thread! Illegal immigrants should not be allowed.
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I actually was going to make this point but decided I didn't want to light a firebomb on this thread....but you are correct. "Right denies climate change"(I mean that it is happening, not root cause), "left denies validity of vaccinations".
Both are scientifically verifiable but each group chooses to ignore facts.
Here is the difference: on global warming, the politicians on the right are denying it; on vaccinations, I don't think you'll find many if any politicians on the left that are anti-vax. On the contrary, those siding with the anti-vaxxers are politicians on the right (Paul, Christie, Trump, et al).
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Of course we're doing a good job with some of our lax immigration enforcement of allowing some of that to come back to the U.S....which is nice.
I didn't want to go there but yes, you are correct.
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He's a lesbian singer?
Lesbian singer's kid.
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My oldest daughter is preggers with who will soon be my first grandchild. She lives on the east coast, and must, unfortunately, ask any potential pediatrician whether he/she allows unvaccinated patients.
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In response to those asking about Marquette policy, I'm 99% sure that they are required. I know I had to get some shots that I hadn't updated in a while when I matriculated.
As an aside, my younger brother goes to high school with a kid who isn't vaccinated. He desperately wants to get vaccinated, but his parents won't allow it. That, in my opinion, is child abuse.
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Of course we're doing a good job with some of our lax immigration enforcement of allowing some of that to come back to the U.S....which is nice.
School and community health officials will tell you this group is the most complaint. First, they come from a place where disease is commonplace and know and want better for their families. Second, they will be the most compliant as they don't want to get on radars. Third, many work in food service/processing or hospital industries and are required to be vaccinated-legal or not. More so, if they are being processed in immigration they will be vaccinated or will need to show proof of vaccination.
The biggest offenders are the educated Fruitcakes of Orange County.
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Our community's solution is simple: Children enrolled in the public schools must be vaccinated.
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Here is the difference: on global warming, the politicians on the right are denying it; on vaccinations, I don't think you'll find many if any politicians on the left that are anti-vax. On the contrary, those siding with the anti-vaxxers are politicians on the right (Paul, Christie, Trump, et al).
For the record none of the above mentioned are anti-vaxxers but people who have spoken out about choice from what I have read.
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For the record none of the above mentioned are anti-vaxxers but people who have spoken out about choice from what I have read.
Not quite. They are WORSE than the anti vaxxers. Trump, Paul, and christie have all stated that vaccines can cause autism. I understand that people want/need something to blame when their child is stricken. But it is unconscionable for public officials to make these kinds of statements. It just encourages more people to refuse vaccination for their children.
Maybe instead of feeding their base, they could spend some time reading what the scientists and researchers have to say on the matter.
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School and community health officials will tell you this group is the most complaint. First, they come from a place where disease is commonplace and know and want better for their families. Second, they will be the most compliant as they don't want to get on radars. Third, many work in food service/processing or hospital industries and are required to be vaccinated-legal or not. More so, if they are being processed in immigration they will be vaccinated or will need to show proof of vaccination.
The biggest offenders are the educated Fruitcakes of Orange County.
Let me provide you a passage directly from the US Deptartment of Education and the US Department of Justice. The passage is still available on both US department websites....underline and colored by me.
On May 8, 2014, the U.S. Department of Education (USED) and the U.S. Department of Justice (USDOJ) issued updated guidance to assist public elementary and secondary schools to ensure enrollment processes are consistent with the law and fulfill their obligation to provide all children – regardless of national origin, immigration status or background – equal access to an education. Such equal access extends to children who come into the United States from other countries without an adult guardian. These children are referred to as unaccompanied alien children (UAC) in federal statutes.
An unaccompanied alien child is a child who has no lawful immigration status in the United States; has not attained 18 years of age; and, with respect to whom, there is no parent or legal guardian in the United States, or no parent or legal guardian in the United States available to provide care and physical custody.
While a case-by-case review of each child’s circumstances upon enrolling in a Virginia public school is necessary, many of these unaccompanied children will be deemed homeless under applicable state and federal law. Pursuant to Va. Code § 22.1-3, a homeless child is one who lacks a fixed, regular, and adequate nighttime residence. The statute specifies that, included in this definition, are “unaccompanied youths who are not in the physical custody of their parents, who … are sharing the housing of other persons due to loss of housing, economic hardship, or other causes; are living in motels, hotels, trailer parks, or camping grounds due to lack of alternative adequate accommodations or in emergency, congregate, temporary, or transitional shelters; are abandoned in hospitals; or are awaiting foster care placement.”
School divisions must immediately enroll homeless students, even if those students are unable to produce the records required for enrollment. In addition, division superintendents cannot exclude from school attendance those homeless children who do not provide the requisite health or immunization information required of other students. School divisions must immediately refer the student to the school division liaison required to assist the student in obtaining necessary physical examinations or proof of completion of immunizations. For more information regarding the enrollment of homeless students.
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Here is the difference: on global warming, the politicians on the right are denying it; on vaccinations, I don't think you'll find many if any politicians on the left that are anti-vax. On the contrary, those siding with the anti-vaxxers are politicians on the right (Paul, Christie, Trump, et al).
Uhm, no. A few are, but most are not denying it. They are asking important questions like, what contribution are humans making. That is a significant difference.
Furthermore, if we spend billions or trillions or whatever, what impact will it make? 1 degree? 1/2 a degree? If nothing is done, what are the impacts.
It doesn't help matters when people run around saying the hurricane seasons will be horrible, they have been anything but. Both poles are going to be gone by now, they aren't and one pole is actually growing. Water levels will increase by a foot or two, and nothing of the kind has happened. That doesn't mean any of those things WON'T happen, but the rhetoric and scare mongering has done nothing to add credibility for those folks because the normal guy reads the scary stories, then sees it isn't happening, and no longer believes the boy crying wolf (even if the boy may be right).
You are painting way too broad a brush to "politicians on the right"....some, yes...most believe climate changes. It always has and always will, whether human beings are here or not.
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What does homeless kids enrollment have to do with immigration and immunization? You do realize there are public health workers, social workers, and free immunizations for kids once they get into schools and the requisite paperwork and immunizations? And how responsible would it be for schools to turn away homeless kids? Are all homeless kids immigrants? Do they all live in Disneyland? Smh
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What does homeless kids enrollment have to do with immigration and immunization? You do realize there are public health workers, social workers, and free immunizations for kids once they get into schools and the requisite paperwork and immunizations? And how responsible would it be for schools to turn away homeless kids? Are all homeless kids immigrants? Do they all live in Disneyland? Smh
Honestly, do you have to ask why Chicos doesn't want society to help the poor? He said in the other thread he wants to tax people living below the poverty line.
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My oldest daughter is preggers with who will soon be my first grandchild. She lives on the east coast, and must, unfortunately, ask any potential pediatrician whether he/she allows unvaccinated patients.
Can't tell by the way that's written .. your daughter wants to not vaccinate? Or doesn't want to be in an office where there's anti-vaxxers? Imagine the latter.
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Honestly, do you have to ask why Chicos doesn't want society to help the poor? He said in the other thread he wants to tax people living below the poverty line.
CDC just identified the cause of the Disneyland outbreak on the Peter Pan ride.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ce/42/ec/ce42ec6d0f25d7dc8042ff44ebcf325b.jpg)
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Didn't read the whole thread, but if there is anyone who is anti-vaxx in this thread they should give back their MU degree.
This "issue" is a total embarrassment to our country.
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Honestly, do you have to ask why Chicos doesn't want society to help the poor? He said in the other thread he wants to tax people living below the poverty line.
Which in itself is built upon the absolutely false premise that people living below the poverty line don't pay taxes.
In fact, people in the lower and middle classes typically pay a larger share of their income to taxes than the wealthy.
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Not quite. They are WORSE than the anti vaxxers. Trump, Paul, and christie have all stated that vaccines can cause autism. I understand that people want/need something to blame when their child is stricken. But it is unconscionable for public officials to make these kinds of statements. It just encourages more people to refuse vaccination for their children.
Maybe instead of feeding their base, they could spend some time reading what the scientists and researchers have to say on the matter.
I don't know about the others, but you're being absolutely misleading here about Christie. To the best of my knowledge, he's never said vaccines can cause autism. Do you have anything to back up that statement?
the best I can find is a 2009 letter he sent to an anti-vaxxer group stating:
"I have met with families affected by autism from across the state and have been struck by their incredible grace and courage. Many of these families have expressed their concern over New Jersey’s highest-in-the nation vaccine mandates. I stand with them now, and will stand with them as their governor in their fight for greater parental involvement in vaccination decisions that affect their children.”
Frankly, I think that in itself is idiotic. Vaccines should be mandatory. But nowhere there is a statement that vaccines can cause autism.
It's also worth noting that nothing Christie says there is much different from:
"We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. This person included. The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it." --Barack Obama, April 21, 2008.
"(I am) committed to make investments to find the causes of autism, including possible environmental causes like vaccines. We don't know what, if any, kind of link there is between vaccines and autism - but we should find out." -- Hillary Clinton, 2008
And i probably just veered too far into politics, so apologies for that.
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Uhm, no. A few are, but most are not denying it. They are asking important questions like, what contribution are humans making. That is a significant difference.
Furthermore, if we spend billions or trillions or whatever, what impact will it make? 1 degree? 1/2 a degree? If nothing is done, what are the impacts.
It doesn't help matters when people run around saying the hurricane seasons will be horrible, they have been anything but. Both poles are going to be gone by now, they aren't and one pole is actually growing. Water levels will increase by a foot or two, and nothing of the kind has happened. That doesn't mean any of those things WON'T happen, but the rhetoric and scare mongering has done nothing to add credibility for those folks because the normal guy reads the scary stories, then sees it isn't happening, and no longer believes the boy crying wolf (even if the boy may be right).
You are painting way too broad a brush to "politicians on the right"....some, yes...most believe climate changes. It always has and always will, whether human beings are here or not.
If what you say is true then the "normal guy" is an idiot. The questions they are asking have been answered as well. There are clear and demonstrable changes in ocean temperatures (the oceans to this point have absorbed most of the global warming; that won't last forever) and clear evidence that it is largely, if not entirely, caused by human activity:
- The global sea level has risen 6.7 inches in the last century, and the rate has increased markedly in the last decade
- since 1880 the twenty warmest years on record have occurred since 1981, and the 10 warmest have occurred in the last 12 years
- virtually all of the people who, you know, have scientific training and actually study this stuff agree that human activity is a major factor in climate change, including a huge increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels
- extreme weather events are in fact getting worse and more frequent. It's not just hurricanes, but the totality of global climate: extreme rainfall, droughts, etc
Climate change denial is the same damn thing as the anti-vaxxer nonsense: a willingness to trust one's gut over actual scientific research. It relies on a mix of paranoia, cynicism, and smug know-nothingism, and it is an inflamed boil on the ass of the body politic.
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Climate change denial is the same damn thing as the anti-vaxxer nonsense: a willingness to trust one's gut over actual scientific research. It relies on a mix of paranoia, cynicism, and smug know-nothingism, and it is an inflamed boil on the ass of the body politic.
Are children's lives put in potentially immediate danger by those who disregard climate change? If not, please don't call them "the same damn thing."
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Are children's lives put in potentially immediate danger by those who disregard climate change? If not, please don't call them "the same damn thing."
Guess it depends on your definition of immediate :P
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Are children's lives put in potentially immediate danger by those who disregard climate change? If not, please don't call them "the same damn thing."
Yes.
Perhaps less immediate than the threat of the measles, but I would argue more severe. Before vaccines, the measles were a terrible scourge on humanity but it still only infected a minority of people. Climate change will impact 100% of the human population.
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Yes.
Perhaps less immediate than the threat of the measles, but I would argue more severe. Before vaccines, the measles were a terrible scourge on humanity but it still only infected a minority of people. Climate change will impact 100% of the human population.
And is a problem that will take longer to correct.
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Who knew there were so many tree-huggers around here?
Carry on.
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Climate change and anti-vaxx are not the same thing, people. You think Jenny McCarthy doesn't use aerosol hairspray.
Duh.
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Who knew there were so many tree-huggers around here?
Carry on.
Well I am not really a tree hugger. I mean, I like trees and all, but I am not someone who is anti-development and "sprawl." I just don't like when smart people deny all the evidence to suggest something is occurring, and simply say it isn't. That doesn't mean I necessarily support everything they are suggesting to prevent or mitigate it from happening.
But climate change has been shown repeatedly to be true. To deny it simply makes people look dumb. And I hate when generally smart people act ignorant.
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Interesting take on how public health policy is shaping the 2016 Republican candidate pool.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/fivepoints/vaccines-presidential-litmus-test-wtf
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Are children's lives put in potentially immediate danger by those who disregard climate change? If not, please don't call them "the same damn thing."
Yeah, since tens of thousands of people are killed worldwide every year by severe weather events and the devastation that follows (disease, famine, etc.), I would say that children's lives are put in danger by an increasing number of severe weather events.
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Yeah, since tens of thousands of people are killed worldwide every year by severe weather events and the devastation that follows (disease, famine, etc.), I would say that children's lives are put in danger by an increasing number of severe weather events.
A bit of a stretch but that's fine. You've made your point. I'm not denying climate change but I guess I don't feel as strongly about its effects as others on here.
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The biggest offenders are the educated Fruitcakes of Orange County.
Many educated people in Orange County, not many Fruitcakes in Orange County....the rest of the state....that's another story.
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Yeah, since tens of thousands of people are killed worldwide every year by severe weather events and the devastation that follows (disease, famine, etc.), I would say that children's lives are put in danger by an increasing number of severe weather events.
And that has been going on for 1000's of years, not something that just started since the industrial revolution. That's part of the bigger point.
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A bit of a stretch but that's fine. You've made your point. I'm not denying climate change but I guess I don't feel as strongly about its effects as others on here.
Only a fool would deny climate change.
Only a fool would deny that there are politics involved and money to be made in the climate change arena.
Only a fool would deny that those whose politics and economic self interest have led them to predict near term disaster have been debunked.
I'd say neither fringe looks very good on this.
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And the even bigger point, how much will we spend and what is the benefit?
Personally, I think it should be tied to absolute metrics. We will spend $X trillion and it will result in Y (define the metrics). If that fails to happen, then the funding is stopped, discounted, or whatever. For the simple reason that if they cannot determine what the money spent will do in terms of an impact gain, it means they are just spit balling and don't have a general clue on the subject at hand. Instead, the answer is just throw gobs of money at it....what does the gobs of money get us and if it the gobs of money DOESN'T deliver that promise, then there should be an appropriate response. Otherwise we're just wasting money for the sake of wasting it if it's going to happen and no tangible results can be derived.
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And the even bigger point, how much will we spend and what is the benefit?
[...]
Otherwise we're just wasting money for the sake of wasting it if it's going to happen and no tangible results can be derived.
but we'd feel so good doing it.
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And the even bigger point, how much will we spend and what is the benefit?
Personally, I think it should be tied to absolute metrics. We will spend $X trillion and it will result in Y (define the metrics). If that fails to happen, then the funding is stopped, discounted, or whatever. For the simple reason that if they cannot determine what the money spent will do in terms of an impact gain, it means they are just spit balling and don't have a general clue on the subject at hand. Instead, the answer is just throw gobs of money at it....what does the gobs of money get us and if it the gobs of money DOESN'T deliver that promise, then there should be an appropriate response. Otherwise we're just wasting money for the sake of wasting it if it's going to happen and no tangible results can be derived.
You're not wrong, but here's the problem: Climate change is likely a cumulative and exponential problem that can't just be "solved". It's going to take YEARS of work to change our behaviors, and we likely won't see huge impacts until years down the road.
But, if we wait around and/or don't address the issues, then it's seriously going to be too late to change.
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And that has been going on for 1000's of years, not something that just started since the industrial revolution. That's part of the bigger point.
Your missing point is that transitions happen slowly over hundreds of years and "life" and "nature" have a chance to acclimate and rebalance which greatly differs than the present which has happened over 20/25 years and the change in that short time span is more severe than anything historical since perhaps the asteroid crash that wiped out the dinosaurs.
You can't paint it with a broad generic brush.
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Only a fool would deny climate change.
And, unfortunately, only a fool would try to change the mind of said fools.
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And the even bigger point, how much will we spend and what is the benefit?
Personally, I think it should be tied to absolute metrics. We will spend $X trillion and it will result in Y (define the metrics). If that fails to happen, then the funding is stopped, discounted, or whatever. For the simple reason that if they cannot determine what the money spent will do in terms of an impact gain, it means they are just spit balling and don't have a general clue on the subject at hand. Instead, the answer is just throw gobs of money at it....what does the gobs of money get us and if it the gobs of money DOESN'T deliver that promise, then there should be an appropriate response. Otherwise we're just wasting money for the sake of wasting it if it's going to happen and no tangible results can be derived.
So you're asking for a guarantee. With systems as complex as climate, there is no guarantee about the effectiveness of measures to stop or reverse climate change, and I would expect you know that. Your argument is disingenuous at that level. And some scientists argue that reversing climate change in the short term may not be possible, given the length of time CO2 remains in the atmosphere. It's bad, and will likely get worse before it gets better. However, there are very specific ways to reduce the level of greenhouse gases which most climate scientists argue as significant contributors to climate change: clean energy, reforestation, etc.
It's like you're in a room that's filling with water. If you do nothing, you will drown. But you're not quite sure the bucket you've been given to bail with is worth the cost.
Extreme weather events are increasing both in number and severity. Extreme weather events lead to death, disease, financial loss, and political instability; more extreme weather events lead to more of those things. So if you're worried about money spent, you should probably also worry about the billions or trillions of dollars lost as a result of flooding, drought, and other extreme weather, which is a direct result of climate change.
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You're not wrong, but here's the problem: Climate change is likely a cumulative and exponential problem that can't just be "solved". It's going to take YEARS of work to change our behaviors, and we likely won't see huge impacts until years down the road.
But, if we wait around and/or don't address the issues, then it's seriously going to be too late to change.
I should have just agreed with you and saved myself some time.
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And the even bigger point, how much will we spend and what is the benefit?
Personally, I think it should be tied to absolute metrics. We will spend $X trillion and it will result in Y (define the metrics). If that fails to happen, then the funding is stopped, discounted, or whatever. For the simple reason that if they cannot determine what the money spent will do in terms of an impact gain, it means they are just spit balling and don't have a general clue on the subject at hand. Instead, the answer is just throw gobs of money at it....what does the gobs of money get us and if it the gobs of money DOESN'T deliver that promise, then there should be an appropriate response. Otherwise we're just wasting money for the sake of wasting it if it's going to happen and no tangible results can be derived.
We have hundreds, perhaps thousands, of bridges and tunnels and trestles and water-carrying pipelines that are seriously in need of repair. To do this, however, is outrageously expensive and it seems we only have money for defense and entitlements. So we are using your system: We won't do it until we know what the tangible results of money we spend on these projects will be. So we wait until a bridge collapses or a tunnel caves in to fix it.
As for the anti-vax crowd ... I wonder how many of these same people were so worried about Ebola getting into the U.S. and wiping us all out. Between the measles, the severe weather and the 2-year-olds shooting their parents with the guns they find in purses, we don't need no stinkin' Ebola to doom us.
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Many educated people in Orange County, not many Fruitcakes in Orange County....the rest of the state....that's another story.
Front page of today's LA Times shows where the ant-vaxxers are congregated. Surprise, Surprise Uber-Liberal West Side and farm worker Ventura County look like leading candidates.
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And the even bigger point, how much will we spend and what is the benefit?
Personally, I think it should be tied to absolute metrics. We will spend $X trillion and it will result in Y (define the metrics). If that fails to happen, then the funding is stopped, discounted, or whatever. For the simple reason that if they cannot determine what the money spent will do in terms of an impact gain, it means they are just spit balling and don't have a general clue on the subject at hand. Instead, the answer is just throw gobs of money at it....what does the gobs of money get us and if it the gobs of money DOESN'T deliver that promise, then there should be an appropriate response. Otherwise we're just wasting money for the sake of wasting it if it's going to happen and no tangible results can be derived.
I actually agree with you in principle here. But the government should have been doing that for decades with every aspect of government spending. Pay for new tanks that the military said they don't need or want? Pay for a VA hospital computer system that takes years longer and much more $$$ than originally planned? It's all garbage. All of it.
The other problem some have partially addressed is that climate change is a long-term process. But the biggest problem with it is that there will be a point of no return. Are we there yet? Some say yes, some say no. But waiting around isn't exactly helping.
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[...]
The other problem some have partially addressed is that climate change is a long-term process. But the biggest problem with it is that there will be a point of no return. Are we there yet? Some say yes, some say no. But waiting around isn't exactly helping.
If yes, then what's the motivation in changing anything. On a long enough timeline everyone's survival rate drops to zero.
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http://imgur.com/a/ybBUJ
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but we'd feel so good doing it.
and less guilty....don't forget the guilt....especially if I can make someone else pay for it to alleviate my guilt.
Amazing
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We have hundreds, perhaps thousands, of bridges and tunnels and trestles and water-carrying pipelines that are seriously in need of repair. To do this, however, is outrageously expensive and it seems we only have money for defense and entitlements. So we are using your system: We won't do it until we know what the tangible results of money we spend on these projects will be. So we wait until a bridge collapses or a tunnel caves in to fix it.
As for the anti-vax crowd ... I wonder how many of these same people were so worried about Ebola getting into the U.S. and wiping us all out. Between the measles, the severe weather and the 2-year-olds shooting their parents with the guns they find in purses, we don't need no stinkin' Ebola to doom us.
Of course, but that is always going to be the case. That's why you have a budget, routine maintenance, etc, to fix those roads.
That is NOT the case with climate change, nor is the cost \ harm on the same level. We KNOW the bridges need to be fixed as we can see the damage AND we can see what new concrete, or paving, or steel can do. This is where you analogy falls short. We have NO IDEA how much money on climate change "fixes" will it take, nor do we even know if it will even work. PLUS, because the climate always changes and for millions of years has gone into cycles of warming and cooling (there's a reason why Greenland is called Greenland), we don't know if 50 years from now or 10,000 years from now things reverse. We just don't know.
That's the question. How many trillions do we want to spend and what do we get out of it? Especially in a world where not everyone is playing by the same rules. China "says" they will lower their emissions.....oh, but they have to wait for 20 years before they start....just trust them.
So I ask, we are going to spend all of this money, etc, and what are we getting for it? I think it's a fair question. Shouldn't someone be able to say that by doing all of this we believe we will lower C02 by X and temperature by Y? No one is willing to put any metrics behind it, but we should just spend away and just trust the process. No wonder so many people are skeptical. Where's the accountability?
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So I ask, we are going to spend all of this money, etc, and what are we getting for it? I think it's a fair question. Shouldn't someone be able to say that by doing all of this we believe we will lower C02 by X and temperature by Y? No one is willing to put any metrics behind it, but we should just spend away and just trust the process. No wonder so many people are skeptical. Where's the accountability?
You're absolutely right about this
But we have a pretty good idea about the causes and preventative measures. The only immediate solution is to intensely regulate industry that we know are primary causes
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You're absolutely right about this
But we have a pretty good idea about the causes and preventative measures. The only immediate solution is to intensely regulate industry that we know are primary causes
We also know we are in a 19 year pause right now.....climate is so complex....there are so many things we don't know....many more that we don't know then we do. That's the scary part for both outcomes. Meaning, it could get really bad, or it could be nothing at all and things revert. What's the role of the Sun? What's the role of the oceans? How much is man at fault? What about all the farting cows. So on and so forth.
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We also know we are in a 19 year pause right now.....climate is so complex....there are so many things we don't know....many more that we don't know then we do. That's the scary part for both outcomes. Meaning, it could get really bad, or it could be nothing at all and things revert. What's the role of the Sun? What's the role of the oceans? How much is man at fault? What about all the farting cows. So on and so forth.
I'm aware that the earth has a cyclical nature, but the most recent intense cycle cannot be denied.
So why not make an undoubtedly safe move and fix this the best we can because we don't really know for sure? Oh...right. It would cut into profits of multinational corporations.
We must always cater to the most wealthy
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I saw this article this morning.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/04/ben-franklin-lost-a-son-to-smallpox-heres-his-sobering-advice-to-parents-on-immunization/
Ben Franklin lost a son to smallpox. Here’s his sobering advice for parents worried about vaccines today.
Ben Franklin lost a 4-year-old son to smallpox. He wrote about the incident in his autobiography nearly a half-century later. His words are keenly relevant to the current national conversation about early childhood vaccines, and are worth a close read:
In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the small-pox, taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly, and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it; my example showing that the regret may be the same either way, and that, therefore, the safer should be chosen.
Many parents in the 1700s avoided inoculating their children for fear of harming them -- just as a minority of parents today refuse to vaccinate due to a drastic misunderstanding of the potential harms and benefits of a vaccination. Franklin ultimately regretted not inoculating his own son (he did so not out of fear of side effects, but because the boy was sick with another illness at the time).
The incident stuck with him so much that he went on to co-author a how-to guide on smallpox inoculation with a London physician.
As I wrote Tuesday, the incredible success of vaccine programs has afforded us the luxury of indulging in ill-informed skepticism of them. Some 250 years ago, the situation was very different.
(A hat tip to Amy Webb on Twitter).
Christopher Ingraham writes about politics, drug policy and all things data. He previously worked at the Brookings Institution and the Pew Research Center.
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I'm aware that the earth has a cyclical nature, but the most recent intense cycle cannot be denied.
So why not make an undoubtedly safe move and fix this the best we can because we don't really know for sure? Oh...right. It would cut into profits of multinational corporations.
We must always cater to the most wealthy
Because to make the meaningful dent in CO2 emissions that activists are calling for then the nation doing so would by definition cripple its competitiveness in an international marketplace leading to an economic depression and a certain overall increase in the suffering of its citizens?
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Because to make the meaningful dent in CO2 emissions that activists are calling for then the nation doing so would by definition cripple its competitiveness in an international marketplace leading to an economic depression and a certain overall increase in the suffering of its citizens?
Winner winner.
Plus, this idea of "fixing" this....what will be fixed? Are we lowering temps by what amount for how much? No one knows and no one will say it, because they don't know.
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Winner winner.
Plus, this idea of "fixing" this....what will be fixed? Are we lowering temps by what amount for how much? No one knows and no one will say it, because they don't know.
Well obviously nobody knows for sure, but I don't know if that's a good reason for not trying.
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Well obviously nobody knows for sure, but I don't know if that's a good reason for not trying.
Should we do so if it triples the cost of energy and all consumer goods produced in the United States?
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Should we do so if it triples the cost of energy and all consumer goods produced in the United States?
If only it was black and white like that...Unfortunately the US isn't able to even begin the discussion on how to best tackle this issue domestically and globally because we're still stuck on the debate of whether or not it is happening.
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Should we do so if it triples the cost of energy and all consumer goods produced in the United States?
Probably.
But it likely wouldn't come to that. Innovation solves many issues.
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Should we do so if it triples the cost of energy and all consumer goods produced in the United States?
Industry said the exact same thing when chloroflorocarbons that were destroying the ozone layer were banned in the early 90s and the actual cost turned out to be only measly 10% of what was projected by industry.
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I saw this article this morning.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/04/ben-franklin-lost-a-son-to-smallpox-heres-his-sobering-advice-to-parents-on-immunization/
Ben Franklin lost a son to smallpox. Here’s his sobering advice for parents worried about vaccines today.
Ben Franklin lost a 4-year-old son to smallpox. He wrote about the incident in his autobiography nearly a half-century later. His words are keenly relevant to the current national conversation about early childhood vaccines, and are worth a close read:
In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the small-pox, taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly, and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it; my example showing that the regret may be the same either way, and that, therefore, the safer should be chosen.
Many parents in the 1700s avoided inoculating their children for fear of harming them -- just as a minority of parents today refuse to vaccinate due to a drastic misunderstanding of the potential harms and benefits of a vaccination. Franklin ultimately regretted not inoculating his own son (he did so not out of fear of side effects, but because the boy was sick with another illness at the time).
The incident stuck with him so much that he went on to co-author a how-to guide on smallpox inoculation with a London physician.
As I wrote Tuesday, the incredible success of vaccine programs has afforded us the luxury of indulging in ill-informed skepticism of them. Some 250 years ago, the situation was very different.
(A hat tip to Amy Webb on Twitter).
Christopher Ingraham writes about politics, drug policy and all things data. He previously worked at the Brookings Institution and the Pew Research Center.
Thank you.
We've got an outbreak here in suburban Chicago. All victims are babies too young to have yet received their shots. But if the virus is 'floating' out in the community because hosts are available, all infants are now at risk. I pray for their speedy recovery.
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Ben Franklin lost a son to smallpox. Here’s his sobering advice for parents worried about vaccines today.
Ben Franklin lost a 4-year-old son to smallpox. He wrote about the incident in his autobiography nearly a half-century later. His words are keenly relevant to the current national conversation about early childhood vaccines, and are worth a close read:
In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the small-pox, taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly, and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it; my example showing that the regret may be the same either way, and that, therefore, the safer should be chosen.
Many parents in the 1700s avoided inoculating their children for fear of harming them -- just as a minority of parents today refuse to vaccinate due to a drastic misunderstanding of the potential harms and benefits of a vaccination. Franklin ultimately regretted not inoculating his own son (he did so not out of fear of side effects, but because the boy was sick with another illness at the time).
The incident stuck with him so much that he went on to co-author a how-to guide on smallpox inoculation with a London physician.
Your mixing vaccination and inoculation. Ben could have inoculated his son against smallpox - fairly effective - but if he had wanted to vaccinate him, he would have had to invent the vaccine first. Vaccines did not exist at the time.
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We also know we are in a 19 year pause right now.....climate is so complex....there are so many things we don't know....many more that we don't know then we do. That's the scary part for both outcomes. Meaning, it could get really bad, or it could be nothing at all and things revert. What's the role of the Sun? What's the role of the oceans? How much is man at fault? What about all the farting cows. So on and so forth.
I'm a huge climate change guy. But I agree with you. And, it appears we all agree that we don't know enough about the situation to come up with metrics and measured solutions. So, in light of throwing money at the wall and hoping the solution works (even though we wouldn't have measured results), can we agree to increase funding for studying the situation (the variables, etc)?
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Probably.
But it likely wouldn't come to that. Innovation solves many issues.
Exactly... if costs go higher due to greater environmental regulations, the market will react the same way it has for decades....just lay off a bunch of people and replace them with much cheaper robots. Problem solved.
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Your mixing vaccination and inoculation. Ben could have inoculated his son against smallpox - fairly effective - but if he had wanted to vaccinate him, he would have had to invent the vaccine first. Vaccines did not exist at the time.
One of the most poignant scenes in the Adams series was when John and John Jr were abroad and a small pox epidemic was sweeping through New England. Abigail Adams had the doctor come by with a cart of dead bodies to have her family inoculated. Brutally ineffective compared with today's vaccines but the only possible prescriptive for deadly viral contagions.
Imagine the strength Abigail needed to make that decision, alone, in order to save her children. People today have no idea how horrible are these contagions. Idiots who fail to vaccinate put large holes in the herd immunity that enable viruses to propagate.
For those who have not seen it, I highly recommend the HBO series on John Adams. We are blessed to have had such men define the concept of America. Today's politicians would do well to study the works of Adams, Jefferson, and Madison.
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Exactly... if costs go higher due to greater environmental regulations, the market will react the same way it has for decades....just lay off a bunch of people and replace them with much cheaper robots. Problem solved.
I for one welcome our new robot overlords.
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Of course, but that is always going to be the case. That's why you have a budget, routine maintenance, etc, to fix those roads.
That is NOT the case with climate change, nor is the cost \ harm on the same level. We KNOW the bridges need to be fixed as we can see the damage AND we can see what new concrete, or paving, or steel can do. This is where you analogy falls short. We have NO IDEA how much money on climate change "fixes" will it take, nor do we even know if it will even work. PLUS, because the climate always changes and for millions of years has gone into cycles of warming and cooling (there's a reason why Greenland is called Greenland), we don't know if 50 years from now or 10,000 years from now things reverse. We just don't know.
That's the question. How many trillions do we want to spend and what do we get out of it? Especially in a world where not everyone is playing by the same rules. China "says" they will lower their emissions.....oh, but they have to wait for 20 years before they start....just trust them.
So I ask, we are going to spend all of this money, etc, and what are we getting for it? I think it's a fair question. Shouldn't someone be able to say that by doing all of this we believe we will lower C02 by X and temperature by Y? No one is willing to put any metrics behind it, but we should just spend away and just trust the process. No wonder so many people are skeptical. Where's the accountability?
You're putting up hurdles before we even know what they are.
Also, China does a lot of dumb sh*t, but that doesn't mean the US should just go along for the ride.
Climate change is real. Boom. Truth. Is it all because of humans? Likely not. Too many variables. Do human contribute? Likely yes. Okay, settled. Fine.
So what do we do? Well, throwing up our hands because we don't have a youtube video or IKEA instructions on how to fix the problem is silly.
We need to start at square one: Human behavior. Can we all understand how we make an impact. How can we minimize it day to day?
After that, let's look at industries and see if the private sector can innovate. Maybe some cooperation with governments and public funding.
After that, let's use some social, global and economic pressures with our trade partners, so they get their sh*t together as well.
After that, let's see if we can find another planet to move to, or at least steal their air with a gigantic spaceship that turns into a maid with a vacuum.
Not that tough, guys.
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Not that tough, guys.
Until she goes from suck to blow.
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Until she goes from suck to blow.
And don't put a sign on the self-destruct button this time.
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One of the most poignant scenes in the Adams series was when John and John Jr were abroad and a small pox epidemic was sweeping through New England. Abigail Adams had the doctor come by with a cart of dead bodies to have her family inoculated. Brutally ineffective compared with today's vaccines but the only possible prescriptive for deadly viral contagions.
Imagine the strength Abigail needed to make that decision, alone, in order to save her children. People today have no idea how horrible are these contagions. Idiots who fail to vaccinate put large holes in the herd immunity that enable viruses to propagate.
For those who have not seen it, I highly recommend the HBO series on John Adams. We are blessed to have had such men define the concept of America. Today's politicians would do well to study the works of Adams, Jefferson, and Madison.
Agreed on all accounts. Very gripping in the mini-series.
Jefferson and Madison had political differences with Washington, Adams & Hamilton yet Madison & Hamilton still managed to work together and write the Federalist Papers to support passage of the Constitution. There's even them working together for "the deal" to temporarily move the capital from New York to Philadelphia while DC was built.
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One of the most poignant scenes in the Adams series was when John and John Jr were abroad and a small pox epidemic was sweeping through New England. Abigail Adams had the doctor come by with a cart of dead bodies to have her family inoculated. Brutally ineffective compared with today's vaccines but the only possible prescriptive for deadly viral contagions.
Imagine the strength Abigail needed to make that decision, alone, in order to save her children. People today have no idea how horrible are these contagions. Idiots who fail to vaccinate put large holes in the herd immunity that enable viruses to propagate.
For those who have not seen it, I highly recommend the HBO series on John Adams. We are blessed to have had such men define the concept of America. Today's politicians would do well to study the works of Adams, Jefferson, and Madison.
In a perfect world, this is the kind of stuff kids would be taught in school. And we might actually end up with some good politicians that way.
But if you ask the average person now, "Who were Adams, Jefferson, and Madison?" you'd probably get one of two replies. "Weren't they presidents or something?" or "Wasn't Jefferson the guy that liked black chicks?"
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Well they do in my kid's school.
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In a perfect world, this is the kind of stuff kids would be taught in school. And we might actually end up with some good politicians that way.
But if you ask the average person now, "Who were Adams, Jefferson, and Madison?" you'd probably get one of two replies. "Weren't they presidents or something?" or "Wasn't Jefferson the guy that liked black chicks?"
This is what I would expect from today's elementary school kids:
"Madison is my sister. I also have a cousin named Madison. There's also a Madison in the other class."
"Isn't Jefferson that creepy looking guy from that old TV show?"
"Sam Adams is the guy on my dad's juice box. My dad really, really likes juice."
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This is what I would expect from today's elementary school kids:
"Madison is my sister. I also have a cousin named Madison. There's also a Madison in the other class."
"Isn't Jefferson that creepy looking guy from that old TV show?"
"Sam Adams is the guy on my dad's juice box. My dad really, really likes juice."
Perfect! The country is in good hands ;D
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Not surprisingly, Oregon (Don't Tread on Me) has the highest opt out rate in the nation. Lawmakers are looking at eliminating the philosophical exemption.
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/02/vaccination_philosophical_exem.html
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Not surprisingly, Oregon (Don't Tread on Me) has the highest opt out rate in the nation. Lawmakers are looking at eliminating the philosophical exemption.
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/02/vaccination_philosophical_exem.html
California is looking to do the same....funny to watch Jerry Brown and others twist on this one. In 2012 they fully supported the exemptions and were running around touting how this was one of the only ways they supported personal freedoms (ironic, because this is the wrong horse they should have backed while eroding much more precious ones). Now they're singing a different tune.
http://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-pol-measles-vaccination-20150205-story.html
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You're putting up hurdles before we even know what they are.
Also, China does a lot of dumb sh*t, but that doesn't mean the US should just go along for the ride.
Climate change is real. Boom. Truth. Is it all because of humans? Likely not. Too many variables. Do human contribute? Likely yes. Okay, settled. Fine.
So what do we do? Well, throwing up our hands because we don't have a youtube video or IKEA instructions on how to fix the problem is silly.
We need to start at square one: Human behavior. Can we all understand how we make an impact. How can we minimize it day to day?
After that, let's look at industries and see if the private sector can innovate. Maybe some cooperation with governments and public funding.
After that, let's use some social, global and economic pressures with our trade partners, so they get their sh*t together as well.
After that, let's see if we can find another planet to move to, or at least steal their air with a gigantic spaceship that turns into a maid with a vacuum.
Not that tough, guys.
One of the most fantastic all around posts I've seen, complete with the space balls reference. Well done sir.
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Mega Maid.
(http://birthdays.chickenheart.net/Birthday07_Amanda/80's/GuessWho_80s/3_Challenging/Spaceballs_MegaMaid.jpg)
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This is what I would expect from today's elementary school kids:
"Madison is my sister. I also have a cousin named Madison. There's also a Madison in the other class."
"Isn't Jefferson that creepy looking guy from that old TV show?"
"Sam Adams is the guy on my dad's juice box. My dad really, really likes juice."
Kids today don't have time for that history stuff. They have to read " Billy Has Two Moms"
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Read this:
http://jalopnik.com/the-best-mockery-of-anti-vaxxers-is-this-car-based-anal-1684745617
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I'm a huge climate change guy. But I agree with you. And, it appears we all agree that we don't know enough about the situation to come up with metrics and measured solutions. So, in light of throwing money at the wall and hoping the solution works (even though we wouldn't have measured results), can we agree to increase funding for studying the situation (the variables, etc)?
Yes, but in exchange I ask that the data be shared with all, including the calculations behind the data. Too many organizations are not being allowed to peer review the data, get access to why the calculations and "adjustments" are made. That seems to be denying science or hiding some of it, which quite frankly I don't understand. I sense it's because they don't want to get in a public debate about how the sausage is made because it could bring even more scrutiny on things, but if things are as serious as some want to make it out to be, then open up the models.
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Yes, but in exchange I ask that the data be shared with all, including the calculations behind the data. Too many organizations are not being allowed to peer review the data, get access to why the calculations and "adjustments" are made. That seems to be denying science or hiding some of it, which quite frankly I don't understand. I sense it's because they don't want to get in a public debate about how the sausage is made because it could bring even more scrutiny on things, but if things are as serious as some want to make it out to be, then open up the models.
Agreed. We need more transparency at a LOT of levels.
Fortunately, that was a pillar of this administration. Or so I was told a few years ago.
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Kids today don't have time for that history stuff. They have to read " Billy Has Two Moms"
You're a moron
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You're putting up hurdles before we even know what they are.
Also, China does a lot of dumb sh*t, but that doesn't mean the US should just go along for the ride.
Climate change is real. Boom. Truth. Is it all because of humans? Likely not. Too many variables. Do human contribute? Likely yes. Okay, settled. Fine.
So what do we do? Well, throwing up our hands because we don't have a youtube video or IKEA instructions on how to fix the problem is silly.
We need to start at square one: Human behavior. Can we all understand how we make an impact. How can we minimize it day to day?
After that, let's look at industries and see if the private sector can innovate. Maybe some cooperation with governments and public funding.
After that, let's use some social, global and economic pressures with our trade partners, so they get their sh*t together as well.
After that, let's see if we can find another planet to move to, or at least steal their air with a gigantic spaceship that turns into a maid with a vacuum.
Not that tough, guys.
Yeah....throw money at the problem because that's always the solution. It's ended the war on poverty, it has fixed education, it totally ended the war on drugs, and we can go on.
Look, your response is cute and all, but forgive some of us that would like to know what we are doing, how much it is going to cost in real dollars and in lost competitiveness. Seems a fair ask.
Note, I didn't say I'm against it. Note, I think humans are involved in SOME warming, then again climate is getting warmer on other planets where humans aren't present...are we causing that also? Of course not. It's complicated as hell, and that's the problem.
A very complicated scenario and you end up with a solution that is "not that tough guys". Well, yeah, it is.
What's the plan, what does it cost, WHAT WILL IT DO AND HOW IS IT MEASURED, what are the consequences of doing it or not doing it. These are valid, RESPONSIBLE questions for the world, for our nation, for the taxpayers. Too many unknowns and way too many simpleton answers.
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Agreed. We need more transparency at a LOT of levels.
Fortunately, that was a pillar of this administration. Or so I was told a few years ago.
Yup, the most transparent in history....wow was that short lived...a month? Disappointing to be sure.
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Kids today don't have time for that history stuff. They have to read " Billy Has Two Moms"
Hey... I love a good MILF/cougar threesome video as much as the next warm blooded guy, but really, did they have to make a novelization of it?
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Yeah....throw money at the problem because that's always the solution. It's ended the war on poverty, it has fixed education, it totally ended the war on drugs, and we can go on.
Look, your response is cute and all, but forgive some of us that would like to know what we are doing, how much it is going to cost in real dollars and in lost competitiveness. Seems a fair ask.
Note, I didn't say I'm against it. Note, I think humans are involved in SOME warming, then again climate is getting warmer on other planets where humans aren't present...are we causing that also? Of course not. It's complicated as hell, and that's the problem.
A very complicated scenario and you end up with a solution that is "not that tough guys". Well, yeah, it is.
What's the plan, what does it cost, WHAT WILL IT DO AND HOW IS IT MEASURED, what are the consequences of doing it or not doing it. These are valid, RESPONSIBLE questions for the world, for our nation, for the taxpayers. Too many unknowns and way too many simpleton answers.
First, the "not that tough guys" was added after I made a reference to Mega Maid. Lighten up, Francis (that's from a movie, FYI).
Second, I would LOVE to see a concrete case study on exactly how we can eliminate global climate change. Unfortunately, we don't have one. But, that doesn't mean we should just wait and do nothing. There isn't an instruction book for this problem. I know that sucks. I hate it too, but that's the way it is.
Third, nowhere in my basic bullet points did it say that we should throw endless sums of money at the problem. That obviously isn't a good strategy, and it's not even a good tactic. We need to start with some level of agreement of what the problem is, and then start consistent messaging. How can we all chip in? Can I reduce my own footprint or impact? Are there products or companies that can help with that? etc. etc
Start with human behavior and global culture. THEN we can move into some of the production challenges.
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Robert F. Kennedy certainly doing a stand up job on this
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/16/opinions/perry-kennedy-autism/
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Under the ACA, health insurers can charge up to a 50% surcharge for tobacco usage.
The same calculation should be made for insuring the unvaccinated.
How unfair
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Is chicos too west coast?
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Is chicos too west coast?
We believe in vaccinations in my home.
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How unfair
Why? More risk, more premium to pay to cover that risk.
Explain.
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Under the ACA, health insurers can charge up to a 50% surcharge for tobacco usage.
The same calculation should be made for insuring the unvaccinated.
How about those having unprotected sex or are just promiscuous in their actions.....higher surcharge?
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How about those having unprotected sex or are just promiscuous in their actions.....higher surcharge?
The more perfect the analysis of risk, the more accurate the premium. Clearly, some things are harder to verify than others.
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The more perfect the analysis of risk, the more accurate the premium. Clearly, some things are harder to verify than others.
Being extremely overweight is a greater health risk than tobacco use, so perhaps a fat tax is in order.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2014/07/09/obesity-worse-than-smoking.html
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Being extremely overweight is a greater health risk than tobacco use, so perhaps a fat tax is in order.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2014/07/09/obesity-worse-than-smoking.html
How about an IQ test....for the stupid people that do really stupid things that hurt themselves or others.....I'm all for it. The national IQ testing facility.
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How about an IQ test....for the stupid people that do really stupid things that hurt themselves or others.....I'm all for it. The national IQ testing facility.
Sure, as soon as there's an indisputable, scientific link showing that possessing a certain IQ or IQ range means you're likely to be doing stupid things that hurt oneself or others.
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Sure, as soon as there's an indisputable, scientific link showing that possessing a certain IQ or IQ range means you're likely to be doing stupid things that hurt oneself or others.
Why, we make policies all the time based on things that are not indisputable.
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Why, we make policies all the time based on things that are not indisputable.
FYI .... that's not a very good argument in support of your position.
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Why? More risk, more premium to pay to cover that risk.
Explain.
That should have been in teal but I posted from my phone.
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How about those having unprotected sex or are just promiscuous in their actions.....higher surcharge?
How about those who work terribly long hours and are under an inordinate amount of stress? Especially if they constantly brag/complain that to be so.
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How about those who work terribly long hours and are under an inordinate amount of stress? Especially if they constantly brag/complain that to be so.
That should be covered under workers' comp.
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How about those who work terribly long hours and are under an inordinate amount of stress? Especially if they constantly brag/complain that to be so.
You two are always lobbing sh1t balls at each other but this was priceless! I am still laughing!
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FYI .... that's not a very good argument in support of your position.
It's reality, why deny it.
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You two are always lobbing sh1t balls at each other but this was priceless! I am still laughing!
You just cash out, get the nice watch and get a new gig. Couldn't be happier. Pretty simple, really....life is too short for the other nonsense.
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I forget, is anyone here on the side of the anti-vaxxers? Because if we're all in agreement here, then what's the sense dancing around a Chicos-bash-fest... let's just dive right in.
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I forget, is anyone here on the side of the anti-vaxxers? Because if we're all in agreement here, then what's the sense dancing around a Chicos-bash-fest... let's just dive right in.
I thought this was the very rare for Scoop, but unanimous in agreement thread.
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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jim-carrey-slams-school-vaccine-806187
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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jim-carrey-slams-school-vaccine-806187
I want to dismiss him, but I can't.
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I want to dismiss him, but I can't.
Its been proven that the thinerosal and small amounts of mercury literally do nothing...
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full (http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full)
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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jim-carrey-slams-school-vaccine-806187
Well, that cinches it for me. Jim Carrey has always been my go-to expert scientific matters. If he is anti-vaccination then so too must I!
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Well, that cinches it for me. Jim Carrey has always been my go-to expert scientific matters. If he is anti-vaccination then so too must I!
Vaccines turned Jim Carrey into a comical nut?
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Well, that cinches it for me. Jim Carrey has always been my go-to expert scientific matters. If he is anti-vaccination then so too must I!
I thought for sure he would drop the whole ant-vax thing once Jenny McCarthy stopped letting him bone her.
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DeNiro pushes anti-vax documentary by discredited medical researcher Andrew Wakefield to be screened at Tribeca.
DeNiro has an autistic child...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/26/health/vaccines-autism-robert-de-niro-tribeca-film-festival-andrew-wakefield-vaxxed.html?_r=0
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DeNiro pushes anti-vax documentary by discredited medical researcher Andrew Wakefield to be screened at Tribeca.
DeNiro has an autistic child...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/26/health/vaccines-autism-robert-de-niro-tribeca-film-festival-andrew-wakefield-vaxxed.html?_r=0
Withdrawn today
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Withdrawn today
And it should be. Wakefield is a fraud. His "research" should never see the light of day.
This underscores how and why Hollywood idiots should never, ever be opinion or thought leaders. They can be very dangerous.