MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: curbina on February 01, 2015, 10:24:33 AM
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Considering the inconsistent track record of Duke assistants (see list shown below) Marquette gambled on an assistant with no experience as a head coach. Under Wojo's leadership Marquette basketball is now in complete turmoil! I suppose you could say that "you've got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em" and it is now time to send Wojo back to Duke and hire an experienced basketball coach!
List of former Duke assistant coaches.
Chris Collins (Northwestern Head Coach)
Collins first year (2013-2014) at Northwestern was less than stellar with a conference record of 6-12 and an overall record of 14-19. This year Northwestern is 1-7 in conference play and have an overall record of 10-11.
Mike Brey (Notre Dame Head Coach)
Brey is the most successful former assistant of Coach K, winning over 375 games in his time as a head coach at Delaware and Notre Dame. The three-time Big East Coach of the Year has the Irish back in the hunt for a conference title this season. But despite Brey’s sparkling winning percentage, he’s only been to the Sweet 16 once in 17 seasons as a head coach.
Tommy Amaker (Harvard Head Coach)
Amaker was fired at Michigan in 2007 and is now toiling in the obscurity of the Ivy League.
Johnny Dawkins (Stanford Head Coach)
In 2008, he was given the head coaching job at Stanford, but Dawkins’ first four years were mediocre at best. Dawkins did win the 2012 NIT Tournament and finally made the 2014 NCAA Tournament and was eliminated in the Sweet Sixteen by Dyton. This year Stanford is 6-3 in conference play and have an overall record of 15-6.
Jeff Capel (Ex-Oklahoma Head Coach)
Capel lead VCU to 79 wins in four seasons. After riding Blake Griffin to the 2009 Elite Eight, Capel’s Oklahoma teams nosedived with two straight losing seasons. Capel has come back to Coach K, tail tucked between his legs, and is currently an assistant coach for the Blue Devils.
Quin Snyder (Ex-Missouri Head Coach)
Snyder then accepted the head coaching position at the University of Missouri, and led the Tigers to four consecutive NCAA Tournaments, including one Elite Eight appearance. After two NIT appearances followed, Snyder was axed in Columbia. He’s now a long way from home as an assistant for Russia’s CSKA Moscow.
Robert Brickey (Ex-Shaw Head Coach)
Brickey’s only head coaching job came in DII at Shaw University, where he only lasted three seasons. Brickey is currently the Director of Basketball at Hoops City U, a youth basketball program.
Mike Dement (Ex-UNC-Greensboro Head Coach)
Demant coach at Cornell, SMU and UNCG, not exactly blue blood program. Dement made the NCAA tournament once at Cornell but has resigned his past two head coaching positions at SMU and UNCG midseason, the latter coming in December of 2011.
David Henderson (Ex-Delaware Head Coach)
Henderson coached under Krzyzewski between 1998-2000, when he was tapped to be the University of Delaware’s head coach. In 2006 Henderson was fired after Delaware posted a 9-21 record. He hasn’t resurfaced in college basketball since.
Tim O’Toole (Ex-Fairfield Head Coach)
After one season as a Seton Hall assistant, O’Toole took over for his alma mater, Fairfield, as the program’s head coach. In eight years, O’Toole could only muster one NIT appearance and was out the door. He’s currently the director of basketball operations for Syracuse.
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Considering the inconsistent track record of Duke assistants (see list shown below) Marquette gambled on an assistant with no experience as a head coach. Under Wojo's leadership Marquette basketball is now in complete turmoil! I suppose you could say that "you've got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em" and it is now time to send Wojo back to Duke and hire an experienced basketball coach!
List of former Duke assistant coaches.
Chris Collins (Northwestern Head Coach)
Collins first year (2013-2014) at Northwestern was less than stellar with a conference record of 6-12 and an overall record of 14-19. This year Northwestern is 1-7 in conference play and have an overall record of 10-11.
Mike Brey (Notre Dame Head Coach)
Brey is the most successful former assistant of Coach K, winning over 375 games in his time as a head coach at Delaware and Notre Dame. The three-time Big East Coach of the Year has the Irish back in the hunt for a conference title this season. But despite Brey’s sparkling winning percentage, he’s only been to the Sweet 16 once in 17 seasons as a head coach.
Tommy Amaker (Harvard Head Coach)
Amaker was fired at Michigan in 2007 and is now toiling in the obscurity of the Ivy League.
Johnny Dawkins (Stanford Head Coach)
In 2008, he was given the head coaching job at Stanford, but Dawkins’ first four years were mediocre at best. Dawkins did win the 2012 NIT Tournament and finally made the 2014 NCAA Tournament and was eliminated in the Sweet Sixteen by Dyton. This year Stanford is 6-3 in conference play and have an overall record of 15-6.
Jeff Capel (Ex-Oklahoma Head Coach)
Capel lead VCU to 79 wins in four seasons. After riding Blake Griffin to the 2009 Elite Eight, Capel’s Oklahoma teams nosedived with two straight losing seasons. Capel has come back to Coach K, tail tucked between his legs, and is currently an assistant coach for the Blue Devils.
Quin Snyder (Ex-Missouri Head Coach)
Snyder then accepted the head coaching position at the University of Missouri, and led the Tigers to four consecutive NCAA Tournaments, including one Elite Eight appearance. After two NIT appearances followed, Snyder was axed in Columbia. He’s now a long way from home as an assistant for Russia’s CSKA Moscow.
Robert Brickey (Ex-Shaw Head Coach)
Brickey’s only head coaching job came in DII at Shaw University, where he only lasted three seasons. Brickey is currently the Director of Basketball at Hoops City U, a youth basketball program.
Mike Dement (Ex-UNC-Greensboro Head Coach)
Demant coach at Cornell, SMU and UNCG, not exactly blue blood program. Dement made the NCAA tournament once at Cornell but has resigned his past two head coaching positions at SMU and UNCG midseason, the latter coming in December of 2011.
David Henderson (Ex-Delaware Head Coach)
Henderson coached under Krzyzewski between 1998-2000, when he was tapped to be the University of Delaware’s head coach. In 2006 Henderson was fired after Delaware posted a 9-21 record. He hasn’t resurfaced in college basketball since.
Tim O’Toole (Ex-Fairfield Head Coach)
After one season as a Seton Hall assistant, O’Toole took over for his alma mater, Fairfield, as the program’s head coach. In eight years, O’Toole could only muster one NIT appearance and was out the door. He’s currently the director of basketball operations for Syracuse.
Thank for your stats. Now GTFO.
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Sigh. The world has gambled on you. And clearly we're no better for it.
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Can't believe the flaccidity on this board toward Wojo. Hell, he ain't got no fookin' talent to work with unless you believe Bumstead left him with All-Americans in Anderson, JJJ, and Taylor. Thankfully Steve got Carlino or I'm not sure this team would have 5 wins at this point.
Give the man a fookin' chance. Any y'all think Holland or Martin woulda been better? 'member, Shaka was just a prick tease.
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Considering it is none of his talent on the team, a head coach learns on the job and that is what he is doing with somebody else's talent, which is limited to say the least. They have a Top 10 recruiting class coming in, lets reserve judgement till 2016 or 2017, when we should be back in the NCAA tournament, if not there is a problem. The next 4 kids he recruits are the key to his success. If he is lucky and picks up another 1 or 2 this year that can play, might be OK in 2015, if not 2016 is the hump year.
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Considering the inconsistent track record of Duke assistants (see list shown below) Marquette gambled on an assistant with no experience as a head coach. Under Wojo's leadership Marquette basketball is now in complete turmoil! I suppose you could say that "you've got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em" and it is now time to send Wojo back to Duke and hire an experienced basketball coach!
List of former Duke assistant coaches.
Chris Collins (Northwestern Head Coach)
Collins first year (2013-2014) at Northwestern was less than stellar with a conference record of 6-12 and an overall record of 14-19. This year Northwestern is 1-7 in conference play and have an overall record of 10-11.
Mike Brey (Notre Dame Head Coach)
Brey is the most successful former assistant of Coach K, winning over 375 games in his time as a head coach at Delaware and Notre Dame. The three-time Big East Coach of the Year has the Irish back in the hunt for a conference title this season. But despite Brey’s sparkling winning percentage, he’s only been to the Sweet 16 once in 17 seasons as a head coach.
Tommy Amaker (Harvard Head Coach)
Amaker was fired at Michigan in 2007 and is now toiling in the obscurity of the Ivy League.
Johnny Dawkins (Stanford Head Coach)
In 2008, he was given the head coaching job at Stanford, but Dawkins’ first four years were mediocre at best. Dawkins did win the 2012 NIT Tournament and finally made the 2014 NCAA Tournament and was eliminated in the Sweet Sixteen by Dyton. This year Stanford is 6-3 in conference play and have an overall record of 15-6.
Jeff Capel (Ex-Oklahoma Head Coach)
Capel lead VCU to 79 wins in four seasons. After riding Blake Griffin to the 2009 Elite Eight, Capel’s Oklahoma teams nosedived with two straight losing seasons. Capel has come back to Coach K, tail tucked between his legs, and is currently an assistant coach for the Blue Devils.
Quin Snyder (Ex-Missouri Head Coach)
Snyder then accepted the head coaching position at the University of Missouri, and led the Tigers to four consecutive NCAA Tournaments, including one Elite Eight appearance. After two NIT appearances followed, Snyder was axed in Columbia. He’s now a long way from home as an assistant for Russia’s CSKA Moscow.
Robert Brickey (Ex-Shaw Head Coach)
Brickey’s only head coaching job came in DII at Shaw University, where he only lasted three seasons. Brickey is currently the Director of Basketball at Hoops City U, a youth basketball program.
Mike Dement (Ex-UNC-Greensboro Head Coach)
Demant coach at Cornell, SMU and UNCG, not exactly blue blood program. Dement made the NCAA tournament once at Cornell but has resigned his past two head coaching positions at SMU and UNCG midseason, the latter coming in December of 2011.
David Henderson (Ex-Delaware Head Coach)
Henderson coached under Krzyzewski between 1998-2000, when he was tapped to be the University of Delaware’s head coach. In 2006 Henderson was fired after Delaware posted a 9-21 record. He hasn’t resurfaced in college basketball since.
Tim O’Toole (Ex-Fairfield Head Coach)
After one season as a Seton Hall assistant, O’Toole took over for his alma mater, Fairfield, as the program’s head coach. In eight years, O’Toole could only muster one NIT appearance and was out the door. He’s currently the director of basketball operations for Syracuse.
You lost everyone with a brain at "Marquette basketball is now in complete turmoil"
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The Uggs For Sale accounts make better first posts.
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4ever
Agree completely. He has min thing to work with and has kept things competitive. He has proven he can recruit and probably coach as well. I am not concerned at all.
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The Uggs For Sale accounts make better first posts.
+1
I think I will buy some Uggs from that bot just to spite this dude.
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Quin Snyder is the head coach of the Utah Jazz.
This the worst MU team and offense in 25 years, trending toward in my wakening lifetime. We are a spoiled and entitled bunch. That said, we are in these games to the end. The coaching staff and players are learning. Wojo has scored a top recruit. But, let's see what follows that. There are things that concern me sure, but what fan doesn't react that way? This is a five year plan as Wojo is about building a program.
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Quinn Synder is the HC of the Utah Jazz. Learn how to use Google you miserable unnatural carnal knowledge.
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Tommy Amaker (Harvard Head Coach)
Amaker was fired at Michigan in 2007 and is now toiling in the obscurity of the Ivy League.
If by "toiling in obscurity" you mean winning three consecutive conference championships and taking the Crimson to the NCAAs for only the 2nd-4th times ever, while being the only Ivy League coach that I can name, then yes, he is "toiling in obscurity"
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After the Shaka debacle, all signs pointed towards Marquette hiring Cuonzo Martin. He had the job in the bag. The committee brought in Wojo as the last interview, just to do their due dilegence. From what I have heard, Wojo's interview blew them away. What impressed them? He had a detailed 5 year plan for building the program to elite level. It included the facility upgrades made to the Al, supporting the building of a new stadium, and recruiting plans years in advance.
I was hoping, like everyone else, that the first year of Wojo's five year plan would involve a NCAA tournament bid. Obviously that's a pipe dream at this point. But make no mistake, Wojo is building for long term success. Give him some time, and he will reward us.
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When is hiring a coach NOT a gamble? There may be a few exceptions, but those exceptions were not possible. So what is the point of this?
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Good Lord.
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Out of MU's last several head coaches before Wojo, the guys with the most head coaching experience were Dukiet and Deane.
The guys with the least (or no) head coaching experience were O'Neill, Crean and Buzz.
I'll take my chances with the latter....
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Buzz recruited a certain type of player less skilled at basketball and more focused on toughness and athletic ability. Id say Wojo is looking for 2-3 of those types of players with the rest more of the high basketball iq guys. Currently Wojo is trying to make a middle ground work. If we had gotten Bennett or Ryan im convinced we wouldn't be much better because they hate speed up players. Guys like Duane I see fitting the Austin rivers or kyrie Irving role in Duke while henry being like Parker if Luke can be like One of the plumlees (or at least Brian Zoubek) and the other guys slowly get filled in as high iq discipline players I feel Wojo will meet his plan.
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This board has officially jumped the shark.
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You fed the troll. Yikes this is the thing you are NOT supposed to do on the internet. Dang it, I did to by posting....
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This board has officially jumped the shark.
The OP isn't even a Marquette fan. There was a similar post like this on a Badger board not that long ago.
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4ever
Agree completely. He has min thing to work with and has kept things competitive. He has proven he can recruit and probably coach as well. I am not concerned at all.
I think Wojo is doing an incredible job. I thought the first half against Seton Hall we looked like one of the best coached marquette teams in recent memory. Of course, it fell apart in the second half, but this is a well coached team and, despite the W-L record, we are playing about as well as we can.
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The last GM we had......seemed to look at star ratings and not whether they fit properly or addressed team weaknesses.
Or maybe they are late bloomers....hopefully the case. I think there is talent, though some of it clearly overinflated. Or, not playing to the various strengths needed with the others for 40 min. They show they are gritty, play hard, can make high level plays, but all too often can't for a sustained period of time. A lot of that is lack of depth....tough to play at a high level when you have 8 guys for 40 minutes.
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Shaka was just a prick tease
Aina?
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What the f uck happened to the Bail Bond Five Year Rule??
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What the f uck happened to the Bail Bond Five Year Rule??
Very much in tact.....why? I said yesterday, last week, the month before, when he was hired....we'll know in 4 to 5 years. Nothing has changed.
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Very much in tact.....why? I said yesterday, last week, the month before, when he was hired....we'll know in 4 to 5 years. Nothing has changed.
We're you always a cranky old man? I'm wondering if this is what I have to look forward to in life.
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Great...another one ::)
So far we don't know what we have. Wojo clearly needs to improve game management, especially in crunch time, but he's working with a roster short on quality and quantity. He's recruiting thus far at a higher level than any coach at Marquette since Al. With only one year to go on, though, it remains to be seen if he will be able to maintain that.
We'll know a lot more in years 2 and 3 when he has a full roster of primarily his own players. We'll probably be able to make a fair judgment in years 4 and 5 when he has a full cycle of his own players.
Any coach would have been a gamble. Smart, Howland, Martin, all of them had pros and cons to their resume. I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet.
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We're you always a cranky old man? I'm wondering if this is what I have to look forward to in life.
How is this cranky? LOL
Seriously, I just don't think we will truly know what we have from any coach until he gets his own recruits in and they matriculate through. Not sure how you link cranky with that.
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Considering the inconsistent track record of Duke assistants (see list shown below) Marquette gambled on an assistant with no experience as a head coach. Under Wojo's leadership Marquette basketball is now in complete turmoil! I suppose you could say that "you've got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em" and it is now time to send Wojo back to Duke and hire an experienced basketball coach!
List of former Duke assistant coaches.
Chris Collins (Northwestern Head Coach)
Collins first year (2013-2014) at Northwestern was less than stellar with a conference record of 6-12 and an overall record of 14-19. This year Northwestern is 1-7 in conference play and have an overall record of 10-11.
Mike Brey (Notre Dame Head Coach)
Brey is the most successful former assistant of Coach K, winning over 375 games in his time as a head coach at Delaware and Notre Dame. The three-time Big East Coach of the Year has the Irish back in the hunt for a conference title this season. But despite Brey’s sparkling winning percentage, he’s only been to the Sweet 16 once in 17 seasons as a head coach.
Tommy Amaker (Harvard Head Coach)
Amaker was fired at Michigan in 2007 and is now toiling in the obscurity of the Ivy League.
Johnny Dawkins (Stanford Head Coach)
In 2008, he was given the head coaching job at Stanford, but Dawkins’ first four years were mediocre at best. Dawkins did win the 2012 NIT Tournament and finally made the 2014 NCAA Tournament and was eliminated in the Sweet Sixteen by Dyton. This year Stanford is 6-3 in conference play and have an overall record of 15-6.
Jeff Capel (Ex-Oklahoma Head Coach)
Capel lead VCU to 79 wins in four seasons. After riding Blake Griffin to the 2009 Elite Eight, Capel’s Oklahoma teams nosedived with two straight losing seasons. Capel has come back to Coach K, tail tucked between his legs, and is currently an assistant coach for the Blue Devils.
Quin Snyder (Ex-Missouri Head Coach)
Snyder then accepted the head coaching position at the University of Missouri, and led the Tigers to four consecutive NCAA Tournaments, including one Elite Eight appearance. After two NIT appearances followed, Snyder was axed in Columbia. He’s now a long way from home as an assistant for Russia’s CSKA Moscow.
Robert Brickey (Ex-Shaw Head Coach)
Brickey’s only head coaching job came in DII at Shaw University, where he only lasted three seasons. Brickey is currently the Director of Basketball at Hoops City U, a youth basketball program.
Mike Dement (Ex-UNC-Greensboro Head Coach)
Demant coach at Cornell, SMU and UNCG, not exactly blue blood program. Dement made the NCAA tournament once at Cornell but has resigned his past two head coaching positions at SMU and UNCG midseason, the latter coming in December of 2011.
David Henderson (Ex-Delaware Head Coach)
Henderson coached under Krzyzewski between 1998-2000, when he was tapped to be the University of Delaware’s head coach. In 2006 Henderson was fired after Delaware posted a 9-21 record. He hasn’t resurfaced in college basketball since.
Tim O’Toole (Ex-Fairfield Head Coach)
After one season as a Seton Hall assistant, O’Toole took over for his alma mater, Fairfield, as the program’s head coach. In eight years, O’Toole could only muster one NIT appearance and was out the door. He’s currently the director of basketball operations for Syracuse.
Slither back to a Vadger fan site, pinhead.
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Very much in tact.....why? I said yesterday, last week, the month before, when he was hired....we'll know in 4 to 5 years. Nothing has changed.
That dart wasn't aimed at you, Jams
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Ah yes, hire an experienced head coach. Whole lot of good ones just hanging around waiting by the phone...
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Ah yes, hire an experienced head coach. Whole lot of good ones just hanging around waiting by the phone...
KO and Ben are ;)
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Back to the coop Chicken Little! Halfway through Wojo's first year is no time to think panic.
I adhere to the 5 year time frame and believe we'll look back at this post and scoff again.
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KO and Ben are ;)
KO was never going to be brought back, and after Ben's adventures at UCLA, I'd pass. Got results, but burned down all the bridges along the way.
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Don't you guys feel this team with this talent should be a NIT team at least? I was impressed early on with Wojo's move from man to man to zone. That doesn't seem to be working as well in the past as the players seemed to play harder for Williams.
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Don't you guys feel this team with this talent should be a NIT team at least? I was impressed early on with Wojo's move from man to man to zone. That doesn't seem to be working as well in the past as the players seemed to play harder for Williams.
No. I assume you are all over Tony Bennet's a$$ after he blew one yesterday as well?
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Yeah - last year's team played really hard for Buzz....
It's obvious you're a Badger fan that doesn't watch MU games. MU plays ten times harder than last year's team. It's not an effort issue. Is it that hard to understand that there are transition years between coaches who have completely different styles? Is it that hard to understand that we only have 3 players on our current team that have ever played significant, meaningful college basketball minutes? And only 2 were on the team last year? We lost 6 experienced players from a team that couldn't make the NIT. How do the preceding facts lead you to believe an NIT bid should be expected?
Enjoy the Badgers' year - good for you. But don't get too comfortable. Especially with Wojo grabbing all of the players that Bo used to not even have to try to recruit.
Don't you guys feel this team with this talent should be a NIT team at least? I was impressed early on with Wojo's move from man to man to zone. That doesn't seem to be working as well in the past as the players seemed to play harder for Williams.
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So I woke up with a massive hangover. Turns out Milwaukee isn't as big as it seems. I visited 4 bars 3 miles apart and ran into people I knew at all of them. Pretty sure I ate an entire pizza by myself. I am not ashamed of that. Vague memory of a one mile zombie march through the snow. I figured this post was as germane to a Marquette board as some of the posts in this thread since I wore my MU hat.
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That dart wasn't aimed at you, Jams
Then the quote training needs improving.
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Don't you guys feel this team with this talent should be a NIT team at least? I was impressed early on with Wojo's move from man to man to zone. That doesn't seem to be working as well in the past as the players seemed to play harder for Williams.
My biggest enjoyment this year is going to be everyone picking Becky to the Final Four and they burn out in the Round of 32 or Sweet 16. For the record, last year's Final Four run was not a surprise to me, but no sneaking up this year.
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Don't you guys feel this team with this talent should be a NIT team at least? I was impressed early on with Wojo's move from man to man to zone. That doesn't seem to be working as well in the past as the players seemed to play harder for Williams.
Maybe you need to get that there is not as much "talent" there as you think. I don't give a sh## what their ranking was coming out of HS. Here is the talent as I see it, Carlino, Duane Wilson and Sandy Cohen. Luke will be fine next season. STR just is not panning out and JJJ is still trying to figure it out. JA is a sixth man on most teams. So, that is the "talent"
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Considering the inconsistent track record of Duke assistants (see list shown below) Marquette gambled on an assistant with no experience as a head coach. Under Wojo's leadership Marquette basketball is now in complete turmoil! I suppose you could say that "you've got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em" and it is now time to send Wojo back to Duke and hire an experienced basketball coach!
List of former Duke assistant coaches.
Chris Collins (Northwestern Head Coach)
Collins first year (2013-2014) at Northwestern was less than stellar with a conference record of 6-12 and an overall record of 14-19. This year Northwestern is 1-7 in conference play and have an overall record of 10-11.
Mike Brey (Notre Dame Head Coach)
Brey is the most successful former assistant of Coach K, winning over 375 games in his time as a head coach at Delaware and Notre Dame. The three-time Big East Coach of the Year has the Irish back in the hunt for a conference title this season. But despite Brey’s sparkling winning percentage, he’s only been to the Sweet 16 once in 17 seasons as a head coach.
Tommy Amaker (Harvard Head Coach)
Amaker was fired at Michigan in 2007 and is now toiling in the obscurity of the Ivy League.
Johnny Dawkins (Stanford Head Coach)
In 2008, he was given the head coaching job at Stanford, but Dawkins’ first four years were mediocre at best. Dawkins did win the 2012 NIT Tournament and finally made the 2014 NCAA Tournament and was eliminated in the Sweet Sixteen by Dyton. This year Stanford is 6-3 in conference play and have an overall record of 15-6.
Jeff Capel (Ex-Oklahoma Head Coach)
Capel lead VCU to 79 wins in four seasons. After riding Blake Griffin to the 2009 Elite Eight, Capel’s Oklahoma teams nosedived with two straight losing seasons. Capel has come back to Coach K, tail tucked between his legs, and is currently an assistant coach for the Blue Devils.
Quin Snyder (Ex-Missouri Head Coach)
Snyder then accepted the head coaching position at the University of Missouri, and led the Tigers to four consecutive NCAA Tournaments, including one Elite Eight appearance. After two NIT appearances followed, Snyder was axed in Columbia. He’s now a long way from home as an assistant for Russia’s CSKA Moscow.
Robert Brickey (Ex-Shaw Head Coach)
Brickey’s only head coaching job came in DII at Shaw University, where he only lasted three seasons. Brickey is currently the Director of Basketball at Hoops City U, a youth basketball program.
Mike Dement (Ex-UNC-Greensboro Head Coach)
Demant coach at Cornell, SMU and UNCG, not exactly blue blood program. Dement made the NCAA tournament once at Cornell but has resigned his past two head coaching positions at SMU and UNCG midseason, the latter coming in December of 2011.
David Henderson (Ex-Delaware Head Coach)
Henderson coached under Krzyzewski between 1998-2000, when he was tapped to be the University of Delaware’s head coach. In 2006 Henderson was fired after Delaware posted a 9-21 record. He hasn’t resurfaced in college basketball since.
Tim O’Toole (Ex-Fairfield Head Coach)
After one season as a Seton Hall assistant, O’Toole took over for his alma mater, Fairfield, as the program’s head coach. In eight years, O’Toole could only muster one NIT appearance and was out the door. He’s currently the director of basketball operations for Syracuse.
This just an ill informed and inflammatory piece of garbage. I mean, to my understanding Robert Brickey has darn near performed miracles with the Hoops City U program. I heard that was a train wreck before he came on board. Get your facts straight buddy.
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Don't you guys feel this team with this talent should be a NIT team at least? I was impressed early on with Wojo's move from man to man to zone. That doesn't seem to be working as well in the past as the players seemed to play harder for Williams.
This team only has a high level of talent if you take HS recruiting rankings as gospel. By that standard, Luke is better than Kaminsky, Juan is better than Hayes, Steve is better than Dukan, and Dekker is the only guy on your team that would start for Marquette.
Reality is recruiting rankings only have so much value. This is not a talented team.
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I love the whole "5-year plan" laid out by Wojo in his interview. Newsflash - This program wasn't in nearly the shambles it was when Kevin O'Neill and Tom Crean took over.
Everyone has a major hard on over Wojo for basically one reason at this point: Henry Ellenson. Heldt, Cheatham, and Nick N are simply guys in the 75-100 ranking range - which is the level we'd been recruiting at for 5 years under Buzz.
Wojo has personnel on this team that can be victorious - particularly so had Burton not bailed on him. And it isn't Derrick's fault that Wojo has come to the conclusion that his clone needs to be on the floor for 35 minutes to apparently give the team its best chance to win. The reality though, however, is much like last year - we don't win, and our team is having another historically bad year offensively. Gee - I wonder what my be the primary cause? Did Buzz all of a sudden just forget how to coach offense last year? Buzz's team's ORatings: 12, 22, 21, 52, 25, 96, and now 109??
Wojo lost Burton, Mayo and Dawson. Burton and Dawson were good attitude kids. The team should have 10 guys on it. Other teams keep beating us playing 7 and 8 players. 7 of our 8 players are ranked in the Top 52 in the Big East.
And as for hating on the original poster - the pedigree of Coach K assistants, is NOT good. Perhaps Wojo will be the exception to the rule. I'm skeptical.
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Don't you guys feel this team with this talent should be a NIT team at least? I was impressed early on with Wojo's move from man to man to zone. That doesn't seem to be working as well in the past as the players seemed to play harder for Williams.
No. Current roster: 6'1, 6'2, 6'2, 6'4, 6'6, 6'6, 6'7, 6'11. No returning scoring. Only returning player who has ever played consistent major minutes is not a scorer. Expecting a small, inexperienced team with no proven scoring to be an NIT team is still a stretch. I thought the seniors basically phoned it in this year. This year's seniors, though not nearly as talented, have exhibited total buy in and have left every ounce of energy on the floor. This has trickled down to the underclassmen. The whole team is giving their all, there just aren't enough horses. If you watched the games, it would all be clear.
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KO and Ben are ;)
Neither pass the sniff test
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You want to look at Chris Collins and Northwestern? Sure lets do it because as someone who watches Northwestern I will rip your theory to shreds.I see many similarities between Collins and Wojo. Both dont have their own guys in their program yet. Both teams are playing ridiculously close games in tough conferences and both could easily have 5-6 conference wins. Both teams are extremely young. Both are great recruiters. Obviously Henry for MU and for Northwestern and Collins Bryant Mcintosh is already a stud and once Vic Law gains some muscle, he will be a major factor too. Wait until Collins and Wojo have their guys. You can already see the transition at NU and I think you will start to see that transition at Marquette as well.
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And it isn't Derrick's fault that Wojo has come to the conclusion that his clone needs to be on the floor for 35 minutes to apparently give the team its best chance to win.
How'd that work out for K having WoJo on the floor that long?
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Walk-on makes one post then leaves.
IGNORE
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You want to look at Chris Collins and Northwestern? Sure lets do it because as someone who watches Northwestern I will rip your theory to shreds.I see many similarities between Collins and Wojo. Both dont have their own guys in their program yet. Both teams are playing ridiculously close games in tough conferences and both could easily have 5-6 conference wins. Both teams are extremely young. Both are great recruiters. Obviously Henry for MU and for Northwestern and Collins Bryant Mcintosh is already a stud and once Vic Law gains some muscle, he will be a major factor too. Wait until Collins and Wojo have their guys. You can already see the transition at NU and I think you will start to see that transition at Marquette as well.
Hi genius: Was Northwestern coming off of Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Elite 8 and have 7 Top 100 kids in the program when Collins took over?
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How'd that work out for K having WoJo on the floor that long?
LOL - I'd give my left nut to have Wojo's production out of Derrick. And for the team to have McDonald's All American's surrounding Derrick.
Wojo averaged 28.2 minutes per game as a senior. Made 70, 2 point FGs - and my guess is they weren't all layups. Made 54 3 point shots on 38.8% shooting. Shot 73% from the FT line. Scored 241 points for the year. So while Derrick has similarities to Wojo (though I don't think Derrick will win Big East Defensive Player of the Year award), Wojo was still more talented. Duh.
http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/seasons/season-stats.php?season=1997-98
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Hi genius: Was Northwestern coming off of Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Elite 8 and have 7 Top 100 kids in the program when Collins took over?
Psssst, McIntosh was not a top 100 ranked player and I would take him over any of the guards Marquette currently has except for maybe Duane while their top 100 recruit hasnt played like it. Dont get in an argument with me over Northwestern athletics because you will look like more of a fool than you already do. Any coaching change takes transition. Its not a magical fix.
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If this is complete turmoil, I can't wait for next season! 8-)
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Psssst, McIntosh was not a top 100 ranked player and I would take him over any of the guards Marquette currently has except for maybe Duane while their top 100 recruit hasnt played like it. Dont get in an argument with me over Northwestern athletics because you will look like more of a fool than you already do. Any coaching change takes transition. Its not a magical fix.
I have very little knowledge of Northwestern athletics - you are correct - other than knowing one of their current players...and he likes Collins. I do know that all coaching transitions are NOT the same - as you seem to be trying to indicate? Collins situation at NWestern was far more challenging than what Wojo walked into at MU. WE sure hit the skids here at MU when Buzz took over for Crean. That was a brutal transition. Or wait - that actually seemed like a magical fix. :D
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If this is complete turmoil, I can't wait for next season! 8-)
This just really highlights that although some people grow older with age, they don't necessarily grow up. People on this board want Marquette to win so badly and it's been anything but desirable. So instead of being a rational fan and pointing out that the record doesn't really tell the full story, we make endless threads lashing out at individual players. We fight about our own personal lives and whether or not you played in high school. We bring up one obscure stat to prove theories. And this is all because some people can't handle the fact that Marquette was sad last year and this year is even more, although expected, heartbreak. I'm gonna stay the optimism course while other posters lash out at obscure things. Once MU is great again those same posters ranting about Wojo will be horrified at the thought of him leaving.
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This board has officially jumped the shark.
Yea, I'd say the same thing.... The team is not that good this year. No need for a new coach.
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Tommy Amaker (Harvard Head Coach)
Amaker was fired at Michigan in 2007 and is now toiling in the obscurity of the Ivy League.
It's so convenient that you left out the fact that he has won the conference 4 years in a row.
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Hi genius: Was Northwestern coming off of Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Elite 8 and have 7 Top 100 kids in the program when Collins took over?
Was Marquette? I seem to recall that they were coming off a season where they missed the NIT.
and have 7 Top 100 kids in the program when Collins took over?
So? Florida Gators.
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Neither pass the sniff test
Pretty sure I don't believe in teal.
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Pretty sure I don't believe in teal.
Oh I know. But there are those still cursing that we didn't hire old Bennie. Figured I nip that in the bud
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This team only has a high level of talent if you take HS recruiting rankings as gospel. By that standard, Luke is better than Kaminsky, Juan is better than Hayes, Steve is better than Dukan, and Dekker is the only guy on your team that would start for Marquette.
Reality is recruiting rankings only have so much value. This is not a talented team.
So Marquette doesn't develop their players like Wisconsin does? Is that your argument?
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No. I assume you are all over Tony Bennet's a$$ after he blew one yesterday as well?
What does Tony Bennett have to do with Marquette and the hiring of Wojo?
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So Marquette doesn't develop their players like Wisconsin does? Is that your argument?
To be honest, I think there is some truth in that.
But I also think that Bo does an excellent job with his system and recruiting players to fit that system.
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To be honest, I think there is some truth in that.
But I also think that Bo does an excellent job with his system and recruiting players to fit that system.
Recently, there is truth to that.
Part of Wojo's allure to the search party was player development, which was thought to be substandard under Buzz.
Crean did a much better job developing players.
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OK, suppose we did? So what....
We retained the best candidate available, bar none. That includes Shaka! I like what I see in Wojo.He's learning, just like O'Neill, Crean and the Hillbilly did when they started. He'll get better as he gets his own players in and as the existing players adapt to his system.
What we're seeing here is what I once described as the differences in expectations. All Marquette basketball fans can be split into three groups. The first is, "We're not good enough, he's gone in five years." These folks are quiet for now, but expect them to start howling again when Wojo gets our program back to where it belongs.
The second group is the "Good Lord, could it get any worse?" crowd. These folks were 1980s era grads of Marquette or Deane years grads and they think Marquette can't do anything right. Chicken Little came from this crowd.
The third group is anyone who graduated Marquette before 1982. Anything less than an NCAA bid is a failure and we're the folks screaming the loudest. We're the folks with this year's unrealistic expectations and we're the folks wondering where is our 20 win season, NCAA berth and plan to be national champion (as in, do you really think we could last 10 minutes with Kentucky -- not than anyone could!).
Hang in there folks. This year is a Lost Cause, but give the guy time. He deserves it.
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What about those of us that have high hopes for Wojo, believe he can get us back to contending for conference titles, and might just stick around, especially if Duke looks elsewhere? No room for optimists? ;D
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The third group is anyone who graduated Marquette before 1982. Anything less than an NCAA bid is a failure and we're the folks screaming the loudest. We're the folks with this year's unrealistic expectations and we're the folks wondering where is our 20 win season, NCAA berth and plan to be national champion (as in, do you really think we could last 10 minutes with Kentucky -- not than anyone could!).
Hang in there folks. This year is a Lost Cause, but give the guy time. He deserves it.
I'm in this group (1970) but I don't have unrealistic expectations. I fully realize that a 10 year run (1969-1978) as the second best program in the country is virtually impossible. Buzz brought us closer than we've been since and for that and other reasons I loved the guy. But the folks running things today are uncomfortable with a guy like Buzz (or Al) as the face of the program. They want a button down, white bread, blue blazer guy whose quotes won't surprise them and who won't sweat too much on the sidelines. Their call.
I hope the "Duke North" concept works. I think Wojo's a solid guy and he knows the game. His first recruiting class is top notch. This year I give Wojo a mulligan. My hope is that a couple of years down the road we're back to where Buzz got us. Patience.
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So I woke up with a massive hangover. Turns out Milwaukee isn't as big as it seems. I visited 4 bars 3 miles apart and ran into people I knew at all of them. Pretty sure I ate an entire pizza by myself. I am not ashamed of that. Vague memory of a one mile zombie march through the snow. I figured this post was as germane to a Marquette board as some of the posts in this thread since I wore my MU hat.
I'm a volunteer bar tender at my local Knights of Columbus. Last night, former students of mine, (now well into their 20's) encouraged me to drink Fireball. I didn't like it, but had probably a dozen shots anyway. I don't remember any of the game, nor my mile and a half walk home. I left my dripping wet clothes in the garage and passed out on the couch. Yesterday, I was wearing a Marquette hoodie.
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Maybe you need to get that there is not as much "talent" there as you think. I don't give a sh## what their ranking was coming out of HS. Here is the talent as I see it, Carlino, Duane Wilson and Sandy Cohen. Luke will be fine next season. STR just is not panning out and JJJ is still trying to figure it out. JA is a sixth man on most teams. So, that is the "talent"
When I read your post the thought that I had is that you define talent as the ability to make a three point shot. Rebounding and defense seem to get the short shift in your definition.
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I love the whole "5-year plan" laid out by Wojo in his interview. Newsflash - This program wasn't in nearly the shambles it was when Kevin O'Neill and Tom Crean took over.
Everyone has a major hard on over Wojo for basically one reason at this point: Henry Ellenson. Heldt, Cheatham, and Nick N are simply guys in the 75-100 ranking range - which is the level we'd been recruiting at for 5 years under Buzz.
Wojo has personnel on this team that can be victorious - particularly so had Burton not bailed on him. And it isn't Derrick's fault that Wojo has come to the conclusion that his clone needs to be on the floor for 35 minutes to apparently give the team its best chance to win. The reality though, however, is much like last year - we don't win, and our team is having another historically bad year offensively. Gee - I wonder what my be the primary cause? Did Buzz all of a sudden just forget how to coach offense last year? Buzz's team's ORatings: 12, 22, 21, 52, 25, 96, and now 109??
Wojo lost Burton, Mayo and Dawson. Burton and Dawson were good attitude kids. The team should have 10 guys on it. Other teams keep beating us playing 7 and 8 players. 7 of our 8 players are ranked in the Top 52 in the Big East.
And as for hating on the original poster - the pedigree of Coach K assistants, is NOT good. Perhaps Wojo will be the exception to the rule. I'm skeptical.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR_vxJKLJ54 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR_vxJKLJ54)
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When I read your post the thought that I had is that you define talent as the ability to make a three point shot. Rebounding and defense seem to get the short shift in your definition.
Nope. Overall ability. Never mentioned shooting. Imo, our record is a reflection of that.
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7 top 100 guys THIS YEAR guys on that roster. Will Marquette fans be patient for the next few years not in the tournament?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR_vxJKLJ54 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR_vxJKLJ54)
Kevin O'Neal, Tom Crean, Buzz Williams were all assistants, so is Wojo. Give him a chance. Love his staff, next 4 recruits critical. Hope they are building some relations with whomever they are recruiting. Unless they sign a point this year, next year they will be to young. will be another challenging year.
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Lenny
I agree completely that MU is uncomfortable having a "grey area" type coach. You are also correct that we were spoiled badly back in the day and that does jade our thinking to some degree. I lean to "grey area" when picking a coach and I 100% believe MU runs from that now.
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Lenny
I agree completely that MU is uncomfortable having a "grey area" type coach. You are also correct that we were spoiled badly back in the day and that does jade our thinking to some degree. I lean to "grey area" when picking a coach and I 100% believe MU runs from that now.
Big, dynamic personalities (Al, KO and Buzz) or big luck (TC with Wade) have been the blueprint for success at MU in the past. We swung and missed at another dynamo in Shaka. Wojo's anything but that but he has a lot of good things going for him. My biggest short term fear is that Henry is good enough to be a one and done but that his supporting cast won't help him enough to make a real splash next year. Buzz completely rebuilt our roster by year 3 and the result was S16,S16, E8. If Henry's gone in year 3 (or even if he isn't) that's a high bar.
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Everyone has a major hard on over Wojo for basically one reason at this point: Henry Ellenson.
I don't have a major hard-on for Wojo. Nor do I have a "hate woody" for him.
See, with some of us -- perhaps even the majority of us -- everything isn't black or white, all or nothing, "I'm right and you're wrong."
I see potential in Wojo. He's in his first season as a head coach. Cuonzo Martin went 11-20 in his first season at Missouri State. Ben Howland went 8-18 in his first season at Northern Arizona, 13-15 in his first season at Pitt and 11-17 in his first season at UCLA. And while Shaka Smart -- wait, make that The Great Shaka Smart -- went 27-9 in his first season at VCU, he only went 11-7 in a mediocre conference and lost in his league tournament.
And those are just the other coaches who were considered for our job. I won't even go into Calipari starting 10-18 at UMass, Coach K 38-47 in his first three years at Duke, Rick Pitino 17-14 at Providence and 14-14 at Kentucky, Dean smith 8-9 at UNC, Jim Calhoun 9-19 at UConn, Lute Olson 10-16 at Iowa and 11-17 at Arizona, etc, etc, etc. (OK ... I guess I would go into them, because I just did).
I can just see the Ners equivalent at Duke or UMass or Arizona railing about K or Cal or Lute not being able to coach.
I know you believe our roster was packed with ready-to-win talent before the season. I disagreed, and so did many people who played past high school, such as Big East coaches, Jay Bilas, etc. That's OK, you're allowed to have an opinion, even one that has proven to be wrong.
I thought a .500 record would be an achievement for this team. Nothing has happened to change my mind about that.
I don't consider Wojo a good game coach yet. I'd be surprised if he were. K played and coached under Bobby Knight; I wonder how good a game coach K was right out of the chute. I wish Derrick played a little less and Cohen/JJJ played a little more. I wish Wojo had been able to talk Deonte into staying. I wish we'd do something late in games other than pray Carlino can make a fade-away 3 with a hand in his face.
But I like what Wojo has shown so far as a recruiter, I like his intensity, I like his flexibility, I like the way he communicates, I like that he disciplined JJJ for not pulling his weight while gradually increasing his minutes in 3 of 4 games since then, I like that Wojo admitted he should have played Cohen more and then did so.
Wojo will be a better coach next season and then the year after that and then the year after that. If he's not, he'll be gone. At least by then, we'll have a true read.
To look at what he has done so far and declare him a failure -- and to base it partly on what other Duke assistants have done, which has nothing to do with anything -- is silly and shortsighted.
It's also counterproductive ... unless one actually enjoys being miserable all the time. I'm getting what I can out of a season I knew would be rough -- the exciting finish against Creighton, Luke's first couple games, Duane's great moments, Sandy's improvement. I'm looking forward to Henry and other recruits.
To keep rehashing the same BS over and over and over again, and to repeatedly rip a rookie coach who is struggling in some of the same ways rookie coaches named K and Cuonzo and Dean and Cal did ... well, that's just not how I choose to live my life.
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I don't have a major hard-on for Wojo. Nor do I have a "hate woody" for him.
See, with some of us -- perhaps even the majority of us -- everything isn't black or white, all or nothing, "I'm right and you're wrong."
I see potential in Wojo. He's in his first season as a head coach. Cuonzo Martin went 11-20 in his first season at Missouri State. Ben Howland went 8-18 in his first season at Northern Arizona, 13-15 in his first season at Pitt and 11-17 in his first season at UCLA. And while Shaka Smart -- wait, make that The Great Shaka Smart -- went 27-9 in his first season at VCU, he only went 11-7 in a mediocre conference and lost in his league tournament.
And those are just the other coaches who were considered for our job. I won't even go into Calipari starting 10-18 at UMass, Coach K 38-47 in his first three years at Duke, Rick Pitino 17-14 at Providence and 14-14 at Kentucky, Dean smith 8-9 at UNC, Jim Calhoun 9-19 at UConn, Lute Olson 10-16 at Iowa and 11-17 at Arizona, etc, etc, etc. (OK ... I guess I would go into them, because I just did).
I can just see the Ners equivalent at Duke or UMass or Arizona railing about K or Cal or Lute not being able to coach.
I know you believe our roster was packed with ready-to-win talent before the season. I disagreed, and so did many people who played past high school, such as Big East coaches, Jay Bilas, etc. That's OK, you're allowed to have an opinion, even one that has proven to be wrong.
I thought a .500 record would be an achievement for this team. Nothing has happened to change my mind about that.
I don't consider Wojo a good game coach yet. I'd be surprised if he were. K played and coached under Bobby Knight; I wonder how good a game coach K was right out of the chute. I wish Derrick played a little less and Cohen/JJJ played a little more. I wish Wojo had been able to talk Deonte into staying. I wish we'd do something late in games other than pray Carlino can make a fade-away 3 with a hand in his face.
But I like what Wojo has shown so far as a recruiter, I like his intensity, I like his flexibility, I like the way he communicates, I like that he disciplined JJJ for not pulling his weight while gradually increasing his minutes in 3 of 4 games since then, I like that Wojo admitted he should have played Cohen more and then did so.
Wojo will be a better coach next season and then the year after that and then the year after that. If he's not, he'll be gone. At least by then, we'll have a true read.
To look at what he has done so far and declare him a failure -- and to base it partly on what other Duke assistants have done, which has nothing to do with anything -- is silly and shortsighted.
It's also counterproductive ... unless one actually enjoys being miserable all the time. I'm getting what I can out of a season I knew would be rough -- the exciting finish against Creighton, Luke's first couple games, Duane's great moments, Sandy's improvement. I'm looking forward to Henry and other recruits.
To keep rehashing the same BS over and over and over again, and to repeatedly rip a rookie coach who is struggling in some of the same ways rookie coaches named K and Cuonzo and Dean and Cal did ... well, that's just not how I choose to live my life.
Yep. +1
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I don't have a major hard-on for Wojo. Nor do I have a "hate woody" for him.
See, with some of us -- perhaps even the majority of us -- everything isn't black or white, all or nothing, "I'm right and you're wrong."
I see potential in Wojo. He's in his first season as a head coach. Cuonzo Martin went 11-20 in his first season at Missouri State. Ben Howland went 8-18 in his first season at Northern Arizona, 13-15 in his first season at Pitt and 11-17 in his first season at UCLA. And while Shaka Smart -- wait, make that The Great Shaka Smart -- went 27-9 in his first season at VCU, he only went 11-7 in a mediocre conference and lost in his league tournament.
And those are just the other coaches who were considered for our job. I won't even go into Calipari starting 10-18 at UMass, Coach K 38-47 in his first three years at Duke, Rick Pitino 17-14 at Providence and 14-14 at Kentucky, Dean smith 8-9 at UNC, Jim Calhoun 9-19 at UConn, Lute Olson 10-16 at Iowa and 11-17 at Arizona, etc, etc, etc. (OK ... I guess I would go into them, because I just did).
I can just see the Ners equivalent at Duke or UMass or Arizona railing about K or Cal or Lute not being able to coach.
I know you believe our roster was packed with ready-to-win talent before the season. I disagreed, and so did many people who played past high school, such as Big East coaches, Jay Bilas, etc. That's OK, you're allowed to have an opinion, even one that has proven to be wrong.
I thought a .500 record would be an achievement for this team. Nothing has happened to change my mind about that.
I don't consider Wojo a good game coach yet. I'd be surprised if he were. K played and coached under Bobby Knight; I wonder how good a game coach K was right out of the chute. I wish Derrick played a little less and Cohen/JJJ played a little more. I wish Wojo had been able to talk Deonte into staying. I wish we'd do something late in games other than pray Carlino can make a fade-away 3 with a hand in his face.
But I like what Wojo has shown so far as a recruiter, I like his intensity, I like his flexibility, I like the way he communicates, I like that he disciplined JJJ for not pulling his weight while gradually increasing his minutes in 3 of 4 games since then, I like that Wojo admitted he should have played Cohen more and then did so.
Wojo will be a better coach next season and then the year after that and then the year after that. If he's not, he'll be gone. At least by then, we'll have a true read.
To look at what he has done so far and declare him a failure -- and to base it partly on what other Duke assistants have done, which has nothing to do with anything -- is silly and shortsighted.
It's also counterproductive ... unless one actually enjoys being miserable all the time. I'm getting what I can out of a season I knew would be rough -- the exciting finish against Creighton, Luke's first couple games, Duane's great moments, Sandy's improvement. I'm looking forward to Henry and other recruits.
To keep rehashing the same BS over and over and over again, and to repeatedly rip a rookie coach who is struggling in some of the same ways rookie coaches named K and Cuonzo and Dean and Cal did ... well, that's just not how I choose to live my life.
Nice post 82. I guess I just don't look at all coaching changes as being all situations equal. Buzz walked into a GREAT situation Year 1. Year 2 for Buzz was going to be tough, given what talent was in the program at that time. I believe Wojo walked into a pretty darn good situation at MU
So while it is great to bring up the situations of Cuonzo Martin, Ben Howland, Shaka, etc - what they walked into of course was different than what Wojo walked into at Marquette.
I know you cite our pre-season expectations weren't high by the media as justification for this year's poor record, yet we both know last season's team was projected to win the Big East - it was an AWFUL coaching job by Buzz that led to us missing the NIT.
As I see it grading Wojo since he took job:
A - Retaining current roster of players he inherited upon taking the job back in April.
A - Recruiting. Exceeded my expectations with his first recruiting class - along with landing Carlino.
C - Buy in from team once season started. Lost two players to transfer - one of whom was an All Big East freshman. May lose JJJ as well - what looked like a very talented class (when you add the Luke transfer to it), could be down to 2 out of the 5 players in the class. I do feel the team is playing hard so there is that.
D - In game coaching. Has made some nice adjustments with D, yet has made some head scratching decisions along the way.
Overall grade: C-. The first category of retention of all players upon taking the job loses value once Mayo, Burton and Dawson exited the program in the next 8 months.
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7 top 100 guys THIS YEAR guys on that roster. Will Marquette fans be patient for the next few years not in the tournament?
When the badger troll starts making the same point as you...you know you are in trouble
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MU82, you make fantastic posts. Cheers to you sir
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As I see it grading Wojo since he took job:
A - Retaining current roster of players he inherited upon taking the job back in April.
A - Recruiting. Exceeded my expectations with his first recruiting class - along with landing Carlino.
C - Buy in from team once season started. Lost two players to transfer - one of whom was an All Big East freshman. May lose JJJ as well - what looked like a very talented class (when you add the Luke transfer to it), could be down to 2 out of the 5 players in the class. I do feel the team is playing hard so there is that.
D - In game coaching. Has made some nice adjustments with D, yet has made some head scratching decisions along the way.
Overall grade: C-. The first category of retention of all players upon taking the job loses value once Mayo, Burton and Dawson exited the program in the next 8 months.
So three of the four grades are a C or higher, including two As, and yet the overall grade is a C-? Sounds kind of, well, illogical.
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So three of the four grades are a C or higher, including two As, and yet the overall grade is a C-? Sounds kind of, well, illogical.
The grades come out to a 2.75 GPA which is a solid B...so C- makes perfect sense.
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The grades come out to a 2.75 GPA which is a solid B...so C- makes perfect sense.
See what you don't know is: at Imaginary Coach Evaluation School for those who played basketball, Categories 1-3 are 1 credit hour, in game coaching is 5 credit hours.
4+4+2+5=15 15/8=1.875
Solid C-
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The grades come out to a 2.75 GPA which is a solid B...so C- makes perfect sense.
It may have been a few years ago, but when I was at Marquette, 2.75 is a C+, maybe a B-------
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See what you don't know is: at Imaginary Coach Evaluation School for those who played basketball, Categories 1-3 are 1 credit hour, in game coaching is 5 credit hours.
4+4+2+5=15 15/8=1.875
Solid C-
1.875 at Marquette would put someone on academic probation. You don't graduate with this GPA.
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See what you don't know is: at Imaginary Coach Evaluation School for those who played basketball, Categories 1-3 are 1 credit hour, in game coaching is 5 credit hours.
4+4+2+5=15 15/8=1.875
Solid C-
I know someone who went to school there. I think he transferred from Mindlessly Repetitive Point Guard Evaluation School.
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1.875 at Marquette would put someone on academic probation. You don't graduate with this GPA.
Chicos has placed Wojo on the Five Year Plan
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It may have been a few years ago, but when I was at Marquette, 2.75 is a C+, maybe a B-------
Princeton says it's a B. ;)
http://inquiry.princetonreview.com/leadgentemplate/GPA_popup.asp (http://inquiry.princetonreview.com/leadgentemplate/GPA_popup.asp)
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The grades come out to a 2.75 GPA which is a solid B...so C- makes perfect sense.
I didn't even notice that. Hilarious!
I would also add that the D in in game coaching seems a bit harsh. Did that Shaka bastard screw up the curve again?
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I don't have a major hard-on for Wojo. Nor do I have a "hate woody" for him.
See, with some of us -- perhaps even the majority of us -- everything isn't black or white, all or nothing, "I'm right and you're wrong."
I see potential in Wojo. He's in his first season as a head coach. Cuonzo Martin went 11-20 in his first season at Missouri State. Ben Howland went 8-18 in his first season at Northern Arizona, 13-15 in his first season at Pitt and 11-17 in his first season at UCLA. And while Shaka Smart -- wait, make that The Great Shaka Smart -- went 27-9 in his first season at VCU, he only went 11-7 in a mediocre conference and lost in his league tournament.
And those are just the other coaches who were considered for our job. I won't even go into Calipari starting 10-18 at UMass, Coach K 38-47 in his first three years at Duke, Rick Pitino 17-14 at Providence and 14-14 at Kentucky, Dean smith 8-9 at UNC, Jim Calhoun 9-19 at UConn, Lute Olson 10-16 at Iowa and 11-17 at Arizona, etc, etc, etc. (OK ... I guess I would go into them, because I just did).
I can just see the Ners equivalent at Duke or UMass or Arizona railing about K or Cal or Lute not being able to coach.
I know you believe our roster was packed with ready-to-win talent before the season. I disagreed, and so did many people who played past high school, such as Big East coaches, Jay Bilas, etc. That's OK, you're allowed to have an opinion, even one that has proven to be wrong.
I thought a .500 record would be an achievement for this team. Nothing has happened to change my mind about that.
I don't consider Wojo a good game coach yet. I'd be surprised if he were. K played and coached under Bobby Knight; I wonder how good a game coach K was right out of the chute. I wish Derrick played a little less and Cohen/JJJ played a little more. I wish Wojo had been able to talk Deonte into staying. I wish we'd do something late in games other than pray Carlino can make a fade-away 3 with a hand in his face.
But I like what Wojo has shown so far as a recruiter, I like his intensity, I like his flexibility, I like the way he communicates, I like that he disciplined JJJ for not pulling his weight while gradually increasing his minutes in 3 of 4 games since then, I like that Wojo admitted he should have played Cohen more and then did so.
Wojo will be a better coach next season and then the year after that and then the year after that. If he's not, he'll be gone. At least by then, we'll have a true read.
To look at what he has done so far and declare him a failure -- and to base it partly on what other Duke assistants have done, which has nothing to do with anything -- is silly and shortsighted.
It's also counterproductive ... unless one actually enjoys being miserable all the time. I'm getting what I can out of a season I knew would be rough -- the exciting finish against Creighton, Luke's first couple games, Duane's great moments, Sandy's improvement. I'm looking forward to Henry and other recruits.
To keep rehashing the same BS over and over and over again, and to repeatedly rip a rookie coach who is struggling in some of the same ways rookie coaches named K and Cuonzo and Dean and Cal did ... well, that's just not how I choose to live my life.
Good post. Maybe some are pissed at Wojo not because it's Wojo per se, but rather it's what Wojo represents. Here's what I mean. Some may feel that MU should be in that second tier right after the blue bloods. Hiring an assistant is *not* what schools in that tier do. If Miller left Arizona would they take some assistant? If Matta left tOSU, would they hire an assistant with no experience? Hiring an assistant is gambling and elite programs shouldn't have to take a gamble on an unproven assistant. Wojo is proof that we aren't in that next tier yet. The fact that Wojo has struggled this year is the downside of that uncertainty coming to fruition.
I have to admit, I was not pleased when we hired Wojo. I wanted Howland (and kinda still do, stink notwithstanding) and was unsure about Martin. I mean, if we have to a hire an assistant, I would want the best out there, but I was hoping we would get Howland or steal someone from a quality school (e.g., Jamie Dixon). Someone who could hit the ground running.
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Nice post 82. I guess I just don't look at all coaching changes as being all situations equal. Buzz walked into a GREAT situation Year 1. Year 2 for Buzz was going to be tough, given what talent was in the program at that time. I believe Wojo walked into a pretty darn good situation at MU
So while it is great to bring up the situations of Cuonzo Martin, Ben Howland, Shaka, etc - what they walked into of course was different than what Wojo walked into at Marquette.
I know you cite our pre-season expectations weren't high by the media as justification for this year's poor record, yet we both know last season's team was projected to win the Big East - it was an AWFUL coaching job by Buzz that led to us missing the NIT.
As I see it grading Wojo since he took job:
A - Retaining current roster of players he inherited upon taking the job back in April.
A - Recruiting. Exceeded my expectations with his first recruiting class - along with landing Carlino.
C - Buy in from team once season started. Lost two players to transfer - one of whom was an All Big East freshman. May lose JJJ as well - what looked like a very talented class (when you add the Luke transfer to it), could be down to 2 out of the 5 players in the class. I do feel the team is playing hard so there is that.
D - In game coaching. Has made some nice adjustments with D, yet has made some head scratching decisions along the way.
Overall grade: C-. The first category of retention of all players upon taking the job loses value once Mayo, Burton and Dawson exited the program in the next 8 months.
Of course they all had different situations. I am not going to waste my time going back and seeing what kinds of teams Howland inherited at each stop. But I would bet a million bucks that no matter what kind of hand he was dealt, many fans at those schools were grading him C- or less. Because that's what fans -- especially those who see things in black and white, "I'm right and you're wrong" -- do.
Marquette was picked by coaches -- not media -- to finish in a tie for 7th with Butler. The coaches were wrong on both counts so yes, it shows that they probably aren't as smart as they think they are, either. It all shows that they probably don't put a lot of thought into these polls or that they assign them to somebody else to do. Coaches are busy and couldn't give a rat's rear about polls.
Besides, I didn't need those predictions to know we weren't going to be very good this year. We had one player taller than 6-7 (who wasn't available till mid-December) and two who weren't built like guards. We had little outside shooting. We didn't have a proven stud PG to make plays. Our best offensive players were mediocre (at best) defenders. A sophomore we were counting on heavily had a family tragedy just before the season and understandably couldn't cope.
I don't blame fans for being optimists. I like being optimistic, too. But one didn't have to be a pessimist to be realistic about what was to come this season.
Frankly, I am impressed we have been in as many games as we have been. Next season, when we have more top-to-bottom talent and, hopefully, can bring in or develop a "closer" or two, and when our coach is more experienced, we'll win our fair share of these games.
But I'm realistic enough to know that next year probably isn't going to be spectacular, either. A return to the NCAAs would be a fantastic accomplishment. By next October, the more objective among us will know if that's realistic, too.
One thing I'm not going to do is throw our rookie coach under the bus and assume he won't improve. I've been a rookie coach -- at a much lower level, of course, but the idea is the same. No matter how much training you've had, it's not easy ... as Calipari and all those others I named discovered. I like to think I've gotten better since my rookie year, and I'm confident Wojo will improve dramatically.
And if he doesn't, he'll be gone and we'll take another "gamble." That's sports. It was a plenty big gamble for Duke to take an unproven guy from Army with an unpronounceable name, too.
In this day and age, he would have been fired before he ever got the chance to be Coach 1K, and the Ners of the Dookie world would have been leading the pitchfork-and-torches crowd against him.
As for your grading system, it must be the new math.
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Wojo was hardly a gamble. His image and Duke background made him the perfect choice. Taking Martin or Howland would have been a gamble. MU wanted a "good" guy and it appears Wojo is a good guy.
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It may have been a few years ago, but when I was at Marquette, 2.75 is a C+, maybe a B-------
Back in the day, I think they called it a B/C.
While it's too early to be definite, I'm of the opinion that MU gambled and won. He's got a great first class coming in 15-16, he convinced Chief to stay and while he hasn't made all the right moves in game yet, my feeling is he will soon. He watched K for so many years he had to have picked up on what to do in different situations. He just needs the horses. When he gets them beginning next year, he'll have a much better opportunity to look like the Coach K protege we expected when he was hired.
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When the badger troll starts making the same point as you...you know you are in trouble
I was thinking this too...thread started by obvious troll, joined by Bucky troll, and Ners is basically arguing that both are right.
Ners...think about it. That's exactly how you sound!
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Everyone has a major hard on over Wojo for basically one reason at this point: Henry Ellenson.
Nope.
I'm glad we have someone that isn't slimy as F^ck whose cheese slid off his cracker. Whether he can coach at a high level, we won't know fully for 4 or 5 years, but there will certainly be plenty of data points along the way to form opinions. Recruiting is one of those data points, so far so good. We'll see if he can nail down a few other classes. I wouldn't mind him grabbing someone on the staff with some experience, similar to what Crean and Buzz did in their tenures. Too many inexperienced guys on the staff right now IMO.
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Chicos has placed Wojo on the Five Year Plan
Remember, it is FULLY known in 4 to 5 years. Plenty of data points along the way. If he is not a good coach, that will be known fairly early in the process. The 4 to 5 years is better at detecting if a new coach is living on the laurels of the previous guy, tends to expose them in years 4 and 5 when their guys are in the system fully.
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What does Tony Bennett have to do with Marquette and the hiring of Wojo?
My favorite posts on the Badger board were calling on Bo Ryan to retire last year when you went through your tough stretch. Do you remember those? Fantastic comedy. He was out of touch, couldn't recruit anymore, should retire, the game had passed him by. December and January of last season. Worth the read.
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Nope.
I'm glad we have someone that isn't slimy as F^ck whose cheese slid off his cracker. Whether he can coach at a high level, we won't know fully for 4 or 5 years, but there will certainly be plenty of data points along the way to form opinions. Recruiting is one of those data points, so far so good. We'll see if he can nail down a few other classes. I wouldn't mind him grabbing someone on the staff with some experience, similar to what Crean and Buzz did in their tenures. Too many inexperienced guys on the staff right now IMO.
Your staff comment is actually a very interesting point.
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Your staff comment is actually a very interesting point.
Yes it is...
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Nope.
I'm glad we have someone that isn't slimy as F^ck whose cheese slid off his cracker. Whether he can coach at a high level, we won't know fully for 4 or 5 years, but there will certainly be plenty of data points along the way to form opinions. Recruiting is one of those data points, so far so good. We'll see if he can nail down a few other classes. I wouldn't mind him grabbing someone on the staff with some experience, similar to what Crean and Buzz did in their tenures. Too many inexperienced guys on the staff right now IMO.
Agreed, I was hoping Wainwright would stick around. A veteran, even in a non assistant role could help, like Lavin has with Keady.
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Nope.
I'm glad we have someone that isn't slimy as F^ck whose cheese slid off his cracker. Whether he can coach at a high level, we won't know fully for 4 or 5 years, but there will certainly be plenty of data points along the way to form opinions. Recruiting is one of those data points, so far so good. We'll see if he can nail down a few other classes. I wouldn't mind him grabbing someone on the staff with some experience, similar to what Crean and Buzz did in their tenures. Too many inexperienced guys on the staff right now IMO.
Isn't that the role that Mark Phelps is expected to play? D1 assistant and head coach since 1996?
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Agreed, I was hoping Wainwright would stick around. A veteran, even in a non assistant role could help, like Lavin has with Keady.
And St John's consistently underperforms their talent as much or more than anyone in D1 college basketball. My first choice is young guys who can coach, followed by old guys who can coach, young guys who can't coach and old guys who can't coach.
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Isn't that the role that Mark Phelps is expected to play? D1 assistant and head coach since 1996?
Not grizzled enough.
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And St John's consistently underperforms their talent as much or more than anyone in D1 college basketball. My first choice is young guys who can coach, followed by old guys who can coach, young guys who can't coach and old guys who can't coach.
Lavin could make chicken crap out of prime rib. I just like the idea of one old hat that has been there before. I like the youth of our staff, just like the young talent of the team, but think a little experience would be a benefit.