MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Celtic Truth on January 29, 2015, 11:53:56 AM
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About 6 months ago I was really confident that we would have a real solid chance of making the final 4 and maybe winning a championship in the next 2 years. I still think we will be really good but the future is a lot more uncertain. I thought guys like Deonte and JJJ were going to be the upperclassmen leaders/go-to-guys. This now doesn't look so encouraging.
I've been pleased with sandy, Duane, and Luke this year in their 1st years playing. However, I don't think these 3 will be ready to LEAD us to a championship next year. Just to young, inconsistent, and no tourney experience. I think they could be great role players on a great team but we need a proven veteran to lead us with our lack of upperclassmen talent next year. We desperately need Wojo to somehow find another guy like Carlino for next year. Or at least sign a talented Juco or 2.
I think henry is a legit talent and a stud, but it's really hard to predict exactly how good freshman will be. Best case scenario he is as good as Jahlil Okafor(leading candidate for POY), I know they have a different style. But if u added Okafor to our team this year I think we'd be real good but not a champion contender. I must dont think we can just assume that a great recruit is immediately going to lead us to the natty.
I like all of our other recruits but at this point it's really hard to predict what you're going to get from freshman. They could be solid contributors next year, or they might not even play, who knows.
I think Wojo's a great coach, I think our program is in great hands but I think there is a lot of work to be done before we are national championship contenders. I think the future looks bright and I'm excited to see what we can do in the future.
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Unknown. Next year is not the year. 16-17 is the year. That is the year we will finally know (barring injuries) if Wojo can build a program and coach them up.
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Respect the process.
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Being confident about Final 4s and National Championships is a real stretch for any but the elite programs (Kentucky, Kansas, Louisville) and I really doubt MU will ever be at that level. I think a realistic goal is to get back to where Buzz had us 2 years ago. That is BE title contender, most of the time ranked or near the top 25, making the NCAA most years without being on the bubble, make noise in the tourney from time to time. Those are realistic program goals and I would hope the program can get back to that point 2 years from now and then continue. Once you get to that point you can have a year like the Badgers are now. They achieved last year AND returned most of that team and THEREFORE they can claim to have a realistic chance at the NC this year. So the program gets you competitive like Buzz did. Then having reached that point when the stars align you have a chance to strike gold every now and then.
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Unknown. Next year is not the year. 16-17 is the year. That is the year we will finally know (barring injuries) if Wojo can build a program and coach them up.
I agree that if henry stays 16-17 is the year, but who knows how long he'll stay. I do have a good feeling thought that he will spend more than one year in blue and gold
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Being confident about Final 4s and National Championships is a real stretch for any but the elite programs (Kentucky, Kansas, Louisville) and I really doubt MU will ever be at that level. I think a realistic goal is to get back to where Buzz had us 2 years ago. That is BE title contender, most of the time ranked or near the top 25, making the NCAA most years without being on the bubble, make noise in the tourney from time to time. Those are realistic program goals and I would hope the program can get back to that point 2 years from now and then continue. Once you get to that point you can have a year like the Badgers are now. They achieved last year AND returned most of that team and THEREFORE they can claim to have a realistic chance at the NC this year. So the program gets you competitive like Buzz did. Then having reached that point when the stars align you have a chance to strike gold every now and then.
+1.
Most of the time, it is a process. Jim Calhoun was at UConn 12 years before he made a Final Four. Boeheim was 11. Coach K and Dean Smith were 6.
IMO Henry's class is important not because it will win a championship, but because it is a building block in the process to get MU to that level. (And if they catch lightning in a bottle, and things break their way, who knows?)
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Being confident about Final 4s and National Championships is a real stretch for any but the elite programs (Kentucky, Kansas, Louisville) and I really doubt MU will ever be at that level. I think a realistic goal is to get back to where Buzz had us 2 years ago. That is BE title contender, most of the time ranked or near the top 25, making the NCAA most years without being on the bubble, make noise in the tourney from time to time. Those are realistic program goals and I would hope the program can get back to that point 2 years from now and then continue. Once you get to that point you can have a year like the Badgers are now. They achieved last year AND returned most of that team and THEREFORE they can claim to have a realistic chance at the NC this year. So the program gets you competitive like Buzz did. Then having reached that point when the stars align you have a chance to strike gold every now and then.
+1
Sometimes it frustrates me that some folks aren't pleased with our program unless we're a Final 4 contender. While she was in school I reminded my daughter that we had a historic run during her 4 years (two S16 followed by an Elite 8). My son, merely 2 years younger, started with the great Elite 8 year but has suffered ever since. Still, there he was in the good seats and on TV last night cheering on the Warriors. (No, he doesn't wear a goofy outfit.)
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Future is bright, but (as always) it can always come crumbling down at a moment's notice. A year ago, while struggling with the then-current team, everyone was excited because we had Ahmed Hill, Marial Shayok, Sandy Cohen and Satchel Pierce arriving - playing with Duane Wilson, JuJuan Johnson, Deonte Burton, Jameel McKay and Luke Fischer.
A year later, our future is still bright - just with a different glare. We have Henry and Wally Ellenson suiting up next year, along with Haanif Cheatham, Matt Heldt and (hopefully) Nick Noskowiak, possibly more (graduate transfer couldn't hurt).
Part of the problem was the coaching change, but, even if Buzz had stayed (or changed his ways), we were probably looking at departures of Steve, JuJuan, Dawson and Deonte (anyways).
We may not know who the players or coaches will be, but Marquette basketball will always have a bright future. The amount the school spends on basketball, the school, the fans, the alumni, the history - none of that will go away.
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IMO Henry's class is important not because it will win a championship, but because it is a building block in the process to get MU to that level. (And if they catch lightning in a bottle, and things break their way, who knows?)
Exactly right. While a Final Four or National Championship would be awesome, more important is building sustained success so that you can dream of it on a regular basis. Not sure we'll ever get there, but my hope is that Henry's class is not the end game, but rather the standard we aspire to.
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Wojo must keep recruiting great players. His second class will be e trembly important to the future and I have confidence in him that he will land a great second class. Go Marquette
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so bright I gotta wear shades indoors.
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If Henry is all that, we will be legit immediately. Wade's first year he made a serviceable group look like world beaters. I thought that was his best MU team and capable of a FF run. Of course, we made it in year 2. Not saying Henry is Wade but if he's legit, he will make Fischer look like Bill Walton and Duane look like Dee Brown.
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If Henry is all that, we will be legit immediately. Wade's first year he made a serviceable group look like world beaters. I thought that was his best MU team and capable of a FF run. Of course, we made it in year 2. Not saying Henry is Wade but if he's legit, he will make Fischer look like Bill Walton and Duane look like Dee Brown.
That "serviceable group" included 2 guys who made it to the NBA and a transfer Senior Center who was on a path to be ALL-SEC if he had not transferred. I'm not sure you can say that about next years roster as it currently stands.
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About 6 months ago I was really confident that we would have a real solid chance of making the final 4 and maybe winning a championship in the next 2 years.
Were you drunk?
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That "serviceable group" included 2 guys who made it to the NBA and a transfer Senior Center who was on a path to be ALL-SEC if he had not transferred. I'm not sure you can say that about next years roster as it currently stands.
In Wade's first year the serviceable group Rican referenced was just that. Henry, Nnamaka, Blankson, Jon Harris, Merritt, etc. were solid, not spectacular. One other NBA guy, Diener, who was a frosh and played about half the time. Novak and Jackson arrived the following year.
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Nnamaka was the most consistent player in the history of program. They even named a Consistency Award after him under Crean.
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What color belt was Nnamaka when Crean was done molding him?
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Here's the key----one 5 star recruit, can lead to others.
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Do "I gotta' wear shades"?
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Nnamaka was the most consistent player in the history of program. They even named a Consistency Award after him under Crean.
That is a joke. The only thing consistent about Nnamaka was his ole" defense.
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Things certainly look more grim than I anticipated at this point. I am still hopeful for next season. Winning makes CBB so much better - a 3rd underwhelming year in a row would really suck.
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In Wade's first year the serviceable group Rican referenced was just that. Henry, Nnamaka, Blankson, Jon Harris, Merritt, etc. were solid, not spectacular. One other NBA guy, Diener, who was a frosh and played about half the time. Novak and Jackson arrived the following year.
Thank you.
By the way, when Robert Jackson arrived the following year, Crean claimed he could barely make a layup...had to "re-teach" him as I recall.
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Thank you.
By the way, when Robert Jackson arrived the following year, Crean claimed he could barely make a layup...had to "re-teach" him as I recall.
Was that before or after he "re-taught" DWade?
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Were you drunk?
That sums up what I thought when I read that to!
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Cant get too hyped too early...its happened before and we've seen what happens. I think it'd be reasonable to expect a tournament team next year...
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Here's the key----one 5 star recruit, can lead to others.
Henry could be Marquette's version of Johnny Dawkins.
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Was that before or after he "re-taught" DWade?
Eloquent, simply eloquent.
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+ Henry, Haanif, Heldt,
Noskowiak
- Carlino, J.Anderson, Derrick
Without adding another "carlino/Lockett" type immediate transfer, next year could presumably be worse?
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Butch Lee was top 5 player his year, first year averaged 8.8 points a game, remember Henry and the group are frosh, probably not as good as you think or the so-called experts think, JJJ #27
must have been seeing something I sure do not see. MU is at least 2 to 3 players from being elite. None of the kids right now are elite, elite is the frosh at Ohio St., and no one looks like him, maybe the 2nd pick in the draft. Remember 1976, probably do not for most, all 5 kids played in the NBA. Whitehead, Ellis, Tatum, Walton and Lee now those are elite players, Duane, Sandy and Luke are good, elite, I do not see it yet. I have seen Henry play a few times, could be elite, do not see it as frosh. The whole team will have a different look next year and I see some serious wholes, that is why Wojo is checking everybody out.
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+ Henry, Haanif, Heldt, Noskowiak
- Carlino, J.Anderson, Derrick
Without adding another "carlino/Lockett" type immediate transfer, next year could presumably be worse?
Even if Duane, Luke, and Sandy don't improve 1 bit and Noskowiak's situation doesn't get resolved, we'd still be better.
I expect those 3 will be improved, Noskowiak gets his life in order and ends up at Marquette, and we add some more talent that we don't have already committed or on the team. Things are looking up.
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Even if Duane, Luke, and Sandy don't improve 1 bit and Noskowiak's situation doesn't get resolved, we'd still be better.
I expect those 3 will be improved, Noskowiak gets his life in order and ends up at Marquette, and we add some more talent that we don't have already committed or on the team. Things are looking up.
Lets face it, without Derrick and Juan, have to be better. Juan in the lat 30 seconds looked like a player, faked nobody out and just shot the ball, made 2 threes, that is how he should be playing every game. I have seen 4 years of watching Derrick not take great looks, it is tiring watching him, and this year he has some Butch Lee drives in him.
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Thank you.
By the way, when Robert Jackson arrived the following year, Crean claimed he could barely make a layup...had to "re-teach" him as I recall.
Jackson said it himself. He wasn't learning anything at MSU, only playing back to the basket, he was frustrated. Had a tough time with some of the fundamental plays, like a left handed layup. One of the reasons he transferred. He has a few quotes about his reasons for leaving and coming to MU in the press leading up to the Final Four.
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Future is bright, but might take awhile... Let's be patient
Here are Marquettes top 75 recruits as true freshman in past decade (no order):
Maymon - 4 ppg
D.Burton - 7 ppg
JJJ - 4 ppg
Duane (RS)
Vander - 5 ppg
Cadougan - 0.3 ppg
E.Williams - 1.5 ppg
Jamail Jones - 1.5 ppg
Lazar - 6 ppg
J.Anderson - 1 ppg
Sandy (so far) - 5 ppg
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I like the balance of next year's team.
PG: Duane, Noskowiak
SG: Cheatham, Johnson
SF: Cohen, Wally
PF: Henry, Taylor
C: Fischer, Heldt
Two guys at every position. Add in a juco, a graduate transfer, and a regular transfer and you have a full team with depth at every position.
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I like the balance of next year's team.
PG: Duane, Noskowiak
SG: Cheatham, Johnson Anim
SF: Outlaw, Cohen, Wally
PF: Henry, Taylor
C: Fischer, Heldt
Two guys at every position. Add in a juco, a graduate transfer, and a regular transfer and you have a full team with depth at every position.
Fixed. Add a PG and another big, and yeah, like the looks of that roster lots!!
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Fixed. Add a PG and another big, and yeah, like the looks of that roster lots!!
Would rather have Johnson than an empty schollie
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I like the balance of next year's team.
PG: Duane, Noskowiak
SG: Cohen, Cheatham, Johnson Anim
SF: Outlaw, Wally
PF: Henry, Stone, Taylor
C: Fischer, Heldt
Fixed even better. Now get a PG, and sit back and enjoy next year, and hopefully huge runs 2-3 years beyond with that blend of high level talent!!!
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Fixed even better. Now get a PG, and sit back and enjoy next year, and hopefully huge runs 2-3 years beyond with that blend of high level talent!!!
+1. Stone off bench works for me
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MU is a tremendous institution that is committed to basketball excellence. The results over the last 45 years have proven that out. So I consider our long term future bright.
My level of confidence in Coach Wojo is currently low, however I have confidence that if he turns out to be another Coach Dukiet , the administration will take the appropriate action . Lovell is a guy who wants to win too and won't let a under performing basketball coach get in the way of his vision . We don't have enough big donors to take a super long view on any particular coach.
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Were you drunk?
+1
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Here's the key----one 5 star recruit, can lead to others.
Stone, hey?
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Were you drunk?
6 months ago most people on here, including myself thought Deonte, and JJJ were amazing talents who underachieved last year because buzz held them back. let them play this year, play next year and be ready to be amazing by their senior year in 2016-17. add in a RS JR in Duane who I think will be pretty damn good in 2 years. Paired with a SR Luke, and Henry as a superstar Soph. Plus plenty of talent, athleticism, and size off the bench.
Obviously a lot has changed over the past several months. But how was it a ridiculous assumption to think we had a solid CHANCE at making a Final Four run?
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6 months ago most people on here, including myself thought Deonte, and JJJ were amazing talents who underachieved last year because buzz held them back. let them play this year, play next year and be ready to be amazing by their senior year in 2016-17. add in a RS JR in Duane who I think will be pretty damn good in 2 years. Paired with a SR Luke, and Henry as a superstar Soph. Plus plenty of talent, athleticism, and size off the bench.
Obviously a lot has changed over the past several months. But how was it a ridiculous assumption to think we had a solid CHANCE at making a Final Four run?
I don't agree with your views, but I can totally understand them when explained in that manner.
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I like the direction the program is headed.
This season has been almost exactly what I expected, except perhaps that most games actually have been closer than I anticipated.
Next season should be a nice "building block" type season. Might be too young to even make the NCAAs unless a JUCO and/or grad student are added; either way, should give legit hope.
Agree 16/17 is the season to really make a move. If Henry is the stud everybody thinks he will be, this will be the year he becomes king of the campus, and he should be surrounded by a pretty good "court." Make it at least to the second weekend and hopefully get a break or two to go further, and a nice foundation has been built for those who follow.
To answer the OP question: The future is reasonably bright.
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Jackson said it himself. He wasn't learning anything at MSU, only playing back to the basket, he was frustrated. Had a tough time with some of the fundamental plays, like a left handed layup. One of the reasons he transferred. He has a few quotes about his reasons for leaving and coming to MU in the press leading up to the Final Four.
Funny, as I recall it, there were many quotes from Crean about him (2nd team all SEC?) being unable to make a layup, but none from Jackson.
You're saying he transferred so he could learn to make a layup? Maybe my mind is fuzzy, but he wasn't exactly filling the lanes on the fast break at MU. He was playing back to the basket, although Crean is (still) in love with having guys literally positioned directly beneath the basket...which is bizarre to me.
Regardless, Robert Jackson was successful because he was a total physical load and because he was surrounded by Wade and jump shooters. The fact that jackass Crean tried to claim he rebuilt him is just another part of his legend.
I would be interested in seeing a post where Robert Jackson said he could not make a left handed layup when he arrived in Milwaukee.
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6 months ago most people on here, including myself thought Deonte, and JJJ were amazing talents who underachieved last year because buzz held them back. let them play this year, play next year and be ready to be amazing by their senior year in 2016-17. add in a RS JR in Duane who I think will be pretty damn good in 2 years. Paired with a SR Luke, and Henry as a superstar Soph. Plus plenty of talent, athleticism, and size off the bench.
Obviously a lot has changed over the past several months. But how was it a ridiculous assumption to think we had a solid CHANCE at making a Final Four run?
I think we were all desperately hoping that all of our former top rated recruits were studs that were held back by Buzz. I think only a few actually believed it to be true. In my opinion, this season has shown that was not the case. Ironically, the only ones who vastly improved were Derrick Juan, who were probably the 2 most maligned players in the history of scoop.
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6 months ago most people on here, including myself thought Deonte, and JJJ were amazing talents who underachieved last year because buzz held them back. let them play this year, play next year and be ready to be amazing by their senior year in 2016-17. add in a RS JR in Duane who I think will be pretty damn good in 2 years. Paired with a SR Luke, and Henry as a superstar Soph. Plus plenty of talent, athleticism, and size off the bench.
Obviously a lot has changed over the past several months. But how was it a ridiculous assumption to think we had a solid CHANCE at making a Final Four run?
It's a crapshoot. My biggest concern with that lineup is not enough outside shooting that is consistent and the most important one..a stud point guard. Ain't going anywhere without a stud point guard.
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Was that before or after he "re-taught" DWade?
I stand in awe...
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Funny, as I recall it, there were many quotes from Crean about him (2nd team all SEC?) being unable to make a layup, but none from Jackson.
You're saying he transferred so he could learn to make a layup? Maybe my mind is fuzzy, but he wasn't exactly filling the lanes on the fast break at MU. He was playing back to the basket, although Crean is (still) in love with having guys literally positioned directly beneath the basket...which is bizarre to me.
Regardless, Robert Jackson was successful because he was a total physical load and because he was surrounded by Wade and jump shooters. The fact that jackass Crean tried to claim he rebuilt him is just another part of his legend.
I would be interested in seeing a post where Robert Jackson said he could not make a left handed layup when he arrived in Milwaukee.
I'm saying he transferred for many reasons, including his frustration with how he was playing and being used at Mississippi State. Here's one example:
Jackson averaged 5.8 points and 3.8 rebounds that year, then had solid sophomore and junior seasons but wasn't happy.
"I just didn't feel like I was improving," he said. "I was doing things just because I was bigger and stronger than the other guys. But basically I was just playing with my back to the basket."
Stansbury granted Jackson's request to be released from his scholarship, and Jackson set his sights on Marquette and its new coach, Tom Crean.
"If you've only got one year left, why not go home?" Jackson said.
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Jackson said it himself. He wasn't learning anything at MSU, only playing back to the basket, he was frustrated. Had a tough time with some of the fundamental plays, like a left handed layup. One of the reasons he transferred. He has a few quotes about his reasons for leaving and coming to MU in the press leading up to the Final Four.
C'mon, Chico. That's horsesh1t and you know it!
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C'mon, Chico. That's horsesh1t and you know it!
Taught Novak how to shoot, Diener how to pass and the students how to clap. And John Boehner how to tan. How did we ever let him go?
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C'mon, Chico. That's horsesh1t and you know it!
Coaches say all kinds of things, like kids can't shoot, or kids can't play a lick of defense, can't go to his left, can't this, cant that....etc.
I remember one coach that said.....
(https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608055313861052220&pid=15.1&P=0)
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I'm saying he transferred for many reasons, including his frustration with how he was playing and being used at Mississippi State. Here's one example:
Jackson averaged 5.8 points and 3.8 rebounds that year, then had solid sophomore and junior seasons but wasn't happy.
"I just didn't feel like I was improving," he said. "I was doing things just because I was bigger and stronger than the other guys. But basically I was just playing with my back to the basket."
Stansbury granted Jackson's request to be released from his scholarship, and Jackson set his sights on Marquette and its new coach, Tom Crean.
"If you've only got one year left, why not go home?" Jackson said.
Well, looking at his direct quotes, he said that he wanted to go home, that he wasn't improving at MSU and that he was playing with his back to the basket.
Nowhere does he say he didn't know how to complete basic fundamentals, such as a left-handed layup. Nor does he say he needed Crean to teach him those fundamentals.
And in his one season at Marquette, he played very similarly to how he played at MSU but was surrounded by better players, including one of the top 50 in the history of basketball.
His "improvement" in his one season at Marquette didn't impress NBA GMs, who summarily ignored him on draft night and never employed him for even one second in the league.
I actually was a big Robert Jackson fan; I doubt we would have sniffed the Final Four without him. And I am not a Crean hater. I've simply never liked conveniently rewritten history.
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Coaches say all kinds of things, like kids can't shoot, or kids can't play a lick of defense, can't go to his left, can't this, cant that....etc.
I remember one coach that said.....
(https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608055313861052220&pid=15.1&P=0)
What could this possibly have to do with Tom Crean's self aggrandizing claim that he taught Robert Jackson to shoot lay ups? Al never patted himself on the back or said he taught Pat Smith to shoot. Pat had been ejected along with a DePaul player for fighting. Afterwards, Ray Meyer complained "we lost our top scorer and they lost a guy who couldn't throw a ball in Lake Michigan if he was standing on the beach". Al (Meyer's close friend) loved the quote but had to get the last laugh.
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Well, looking at his direct quotes, he said that he wanted to go home, that he wasn't improving at MSU and that he was playing with his back to the basket.
Nowhere does he say he didn't know how to complete basic fundamentals, such as a left-handed layup. Nor does he say he needed Crean to teach him those fundamentals.
And in his one season at Marquette, he played very similarly to how he played at MSU but was surrounded by better players, including one of the top 50 in the history of basketball.
His "improvement" in his one season at Marquette didn't impress NBA GMs, who summarily ignored him on draft night and never employed him for even one second in the league.
I actually was a big Robert Jackson fan; I doubt we would have sniffed the Final Four without him. And I am not a Crean hater. I've simply never liked conveniently rewritten history.
I am telling you right now, we do not win that Kentucky game without Bob Jackson. The first 5 to 10 minutes of the game he was the only one who hadn't soiled himself. He made the rest of them realize we could beat them. Once Wade got comfortable it was all she wrote.
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I am telling you right now, we do not win that Kentucky game without Bob Jackson. The first 5 to 10 minutes of the game he was the only one who hadn't soiled himself. He made the rest of them realize we could beat them. Once Wade got comfortable it was all she wrote.
Exactly. Lost in Wade's triple-double was that Robert Jackson went for 24/15 and basically shut down Marquis Estill, who famously claimed that he had no recollection of playing against Jackson when he was at MSU.
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+ Henry, Haanif, Heldt, Noskowiak
- Carlino, J.Anderson, Derrick
Without adding another "carlino/Lockett" type immediate transfer, next year could presumably be worse?
Carlino and Derrick will be the toughest to replace. Carlino because shooters like that don't grow on trees and Derrick because of his steady leadership on both ends. But I'm confident your +/- won't be reflective of what the team actually looks like next year.
First, we are also adding Wally. While he may not be the star his brother is, I do think he can fill the energy off the bench/rebounding role that Juan should be in. Many write him off because of Minnesota, but he did battle injuries as a freshman before being written off by a coach that didn't recruit him as a sophomore. Maybe he's just an empty jersey, but I doubt it.
I expect we will add a JUCO PG that can handle, distribute, and shoot the three. I'm a little surprised we haven't offered anyone, but that seems to be part of Wojo's style. I also think we look for another scorer. Whether a JUCO wing or a graduate transfer, I definitely think the staff wants another experienced guy that can put the ball in the basket. If they added Tyrone Outlaw and Dequon Miller, that would very nicely fill the void left by Matt and Derrick.
That leaves us with one open scholarship (likely Anim) and then you factor in the addition of the freshmen. Of course, there's always the possibility we have a transfer, don't fill any vacancies, and go into next year with only 9 scholarship players. But I would be beyond flabbergasted if that were the case. Highly unlikely the scholarship table looks the same in 8 months as it does today.
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I am telling you right now, we do not win that Kentucky game without Bob Jackson.
Glad to see you seconding what I said in my comment: I doubt we would have sniffed the Final Four without him.
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Thank you.
By the way, when Robert Jackson arrived the following year, Crean claimed he could barely make a layup...had to "re-teach" him as I recall.
I'm usually pretty good on picking up sarcasm, but...this has to be sarcasm, right? Or...
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I'm usually pretty good on picking up sarcasm, but...this has to be sarcasm, right? Or...
Not sarcasm. TC didn't do sarcasm. Just another in a long list of bizarre, self aggrandizing statements from our former leader.
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The Wally love on Scoop is next level.
Two seasons at Minnesota:
2 ppg, 1 reb, 0.2 assts, 0.1 blocks, 0 stls
30 % FG
15 % 3P
25 % FT
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Well, looking at his direct quotes, he said that he wanted to go home, that he wasn't improving at MSU and that he was playing with his back to the basket.
Nowhere does he say he didn't know how to complete basic fundamentals, such as a left-handed layup. Nor does he say he needed Crean to teach him those fundamentals.
And in his one season at Marquette, he played very similarly to how he played at MSU but was surrounded by better players, including one of the top 50 in the history of basketball.
His "improvement" in his one season at Marquette didn't impress NBA GMs, who summarily ignored him on draft night and never employed him for even one second in the league.
I actually was a big Robert Jackson fan; I doubt we would have sniffed the Final Four without him. And I am not a Crean hater. I've simply never liked conveniently rewritten history.
That was just one quote, I'm not rewriting any history....there are other quotes, other interviews...that is hardly the only one. Note that I said twice there were a number of reasons he left, that particular quote substantiates TWO of them (not improving, chance to get home). Notice how no one has produce the alleged quote from the coach...tsk tsk.. ;)
My memory is that coach said something to the effect that he lacked some of the fundamentals including his left handed layup and Robert confirmed that...be it on radio or television show or whatever. I'll be happy to search high and low to find the actual quote if the original comment by the coach is produced.
I'm about to get on a plane to the northwest to attend a wedding of a former MU Athletic department member. This is a reunion of sorts with many of us that worked during the KO, Deane, Crean era. Should be some good stories this weekend....perhaps I'll ask them their memories.
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The Wally love on Scoop is next level.
Two seasons at Minnesota:
2 ppg, 1 reb, 0.2 assts, 0.1 blocks, 0 stls
30 % FG
15 % 3P
25 % FT
So you are taking his statistics completely out of context. That's cool.
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Not sarcasm. TC didn't do sarcasm. Just another in a long list of bizarre, self aggrandizing statements from our former leader.
Wow, so a big who played in the SEC didn't know how to make a left handed layup yet was still able to average over 10 ppg in 3 seasons? You would think in high major college basketball that teams would be able to figure out how to take away his right hand in the post if he couldn't even make a layup with his left, and the guy wasn't roaming around knocking down 3 pointers. He was as true of a post as you will find, yet he couldn't utilize his left hand and still scored in double digits. Crazy. And thankfully our mastermind coach figured this out, fixed it, and he only averaged...3 ppg more than he did when he was a sophomore, year years prior to that? Yikes. Guess MSU's coach was better at finding a way to get his big the ball in areas he could score then, considering he only had half of the skillset to work with that Jackson had after Crean coached him up! (Hah, there's an oxymoron)
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Regardless of people who know--- We got Henry, Wally, Heldt, Cheatham, and hopefully Nick. Now if we get
Anim and STONE (is the guy who could put us over the hump), possibly Council. 2016, Sam Hauser or Amir
Coffey would look real good in a MU Jersey. That's what it would take. Fischer, Wilson and Cohen is a decent
start. I hope Wojo will still be here. I am a WOJO WARRIOR.
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For the one millionth time...Diamond Stone is not coming to MU.
You might as well start fantasizing about Ivan Rabb coming to MU, because there is just as likely a chance.
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I give Wojo a total pass this year. Buzz's departure cost us 75% of our recruiting class, our returning upperclassmen (Derrick, Juan and Steve) were underwhelming and the two highest rated guys from last year's freshman class either left (Deonte) or were a bust (JJJ). The only reason we're even a little respectable is that he was able to bring in a graduate transfer who's by far been our best player. For that he gets major props.
Going forward, I'm hopeful. Buzz only had 3 Crean leftovers in year 2 (Hayward, Acker and Cubillan) and none in year 3. In year 2 we made the tournament and in year three began our S16, S16, E8 run. Wojo returns Taylor, Duane, Luke and Sandy (not counting on JJJ - hope I'm wrong) in year 2 and all but Taylor from that group in year 3. Given that a 5*, 2-3 4*s (and hopefully a juco or 2 and maybe a 1 year graduate player) are on the way I think it's reasonable to hope that Wojo's MU teams have a similar trajectory to Buzz's. That would be wonderful. Anything better than that would be over the moon wonderful. Go get 'em, Wojo.
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For the one millionth time...Diamond Stone is not coming to MU.
You might as well start fantasizing about Ivan Rabb coming to MU, because there is just as likely a chance.
Wait...Ivan Rabb is coming to MU? OMG!!!!
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Exactly. Lost in Wade's triple-double was that Robert Jackson went for 24/15 and basically shut down Marquis Estill, who famously claimed that he had no recollection of playing against Jackson when he was at MSU.
Agree completely. Which is why the flawed logic that we only won because of D Wade is turned on it's ear time and time again. Diener stepped up, Novak, Bradlee, Jackson, Merritt.
What a team. Haven't had anything close to that team since then in terms of overall balance.
A lot of fun. Hopefully in the next 10 to 20 years, we can get another one like that.
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I'm usually pretty good on picking up sarcasm, but...this has to be sarcasm, right? Or...
No different than Buzz or anyone else as a coach saying a player couldn't do X when he arrived and when he left he was the cat's meow. Coaches do this all the time.
The famous "when x arrived on campus, he could barely walk and chew gum, couldn't shoot a lick, didn't know where the bathroom is, and was the worst defender I had ever seen"...."but I am so proud of him now and his accomplishments, blah, blah, blah, blah".
There are literally 100's if not 1000's of examples of this from coaches talking about players.
Some of you make this out like some grand conspiracy....laughable.
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No different than Buzz or anyone else as a coach saying a player couldn't do X when he arrived and when he left he was the cat's meow. Coaches do this all the time.
The famous "when x arrived on campus, he could barely walk and chew gum, couldn't shoot a lick, didn't know where the bathroom is, and was the worst defender I had ever seen"...."but I am so proud of him now and his accomplishments, blah, blah, blah, blah".
There are literally 100's if not 1000's of examples of this from coaches talking about players.
Some of you make this out like some grand conspiracy....laughable.
Except the difference is Robert Jackson came in for his 4th and 5th years in college, and in his first 3 years in college he averaged over 10 ppg. So not exactly an apples to oranges comparison, but hey, Crean sure made Bob Jackson a playa!
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For the one millionth time...Diamond Stone is not coming to MU.
You might as well start fantasizing about Ivan Rabb coming to MU, because there is just as likely a chance.
+10000
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So you are taking his statistics completely out of context. That's cool.
If his last name wasn't Ellenson nobody would care
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Agree completely. Which is why the flawed logic that we only won because of D Wade is turned on it's ear time and time again. Diener stepped up, Novak, Bradlee, Jackson, Merritt.
What a team. Haven't had anything close to that team since then in terms of overall balance.
A lot of fun. Hopefully in the next 10 to 20 years, we can get another one like that.
I'm not sure what you mean by "overall balance." The 2002-03 team was pretty top heavy in terms of offensive load. The 2012-13 and 2013-14 teams were better balanced. Shots, scoring and minutes were more evenly distributed. And the 2013-14 team fell one step short of the 2002-03 one.
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If his last name wasn't Ellenson nobody would care
No, I am smart enough to look at someone's career and figure out that he was injured much of his first year and fell out of favor his second, and that he is a 6'6" explosive athlete who fills a role that MU will lose when Juan leaves this year.
No one has said he will be a superstar or all conference.
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I'm saying he transferred for many reasons, including his frustration with how he was playing and being used at Mississippi State. Here's one example:
Jackson averaged 5.8 points and 3.8 rebounds that year, then had solid sophomore and junior seasons but wasn't happy.
"I just didn't feel like I was improving," he said. "I was doing things just because I was bigger and stronger than the other guys. But basically I was just playing with my back to the basket."
Stansbury granted Jackson's request to be released from his scholarship, and Jackson set his sights on Marquette and its new coach, Tom Crean.
"If you've only got one year left, why not go home?" Jackson said.
I am pretty sure PR Nightmare is much closer to the actual case (although I am doing this from memory, and I am not trying to besmirch Robert Jackson because I don't think MU goes to FF without Robert.]
1. RJax was 2nd team All SEC (which I would expect means he had some skills and played pretty well for Miss St.)
2. RJax was voted off the Miss St. team by a team vote after his Junior year - Stansbury put it to the team.
3. Because he would only be a one year player, as well as the [unknown] baggage that he carried about
his departure from Miss.St. Crean thought long and hard about accepting RJax - I'm glad Crean did.
Because of his baggage / being kicked off the team by teammates (how embarrassing ), I would expect that he necessarily wouldn't speak too highly of his former coach / school, as well as would have a number of other interview reasons for why he went to MU. Bottom line, because of his situation a lot of teams passed on him.
To answer the question, I believe the future is extremely bright for MU BB but MU fans must be patient for this season, next season and possibly another year depending upon how you define "bright."
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No, I am smart enough to look at someone's career and figure out that he was injured much of his first year and fell out of favor his second, and that he is a 6'6" explosive athlete who fills a role that MU will lose when Juan leaves this year.
No one has said he will be a superstar or all conference.
Sources also tell me he can jump fairly well.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "overall balance." The 2002-03 team was pretty top heavy in terms of offensive load. The 2012-13 and 2013-14 teams were better balanced. Shots, scoring and minutes were more evenly distributed. And the 2013-14 team fell one step short of the 2002-03 one.
Chico couldn't be more wrong regarding overall balance. Only looked at one team, the 2012-13 team that won the Big East regular season championship and advanced to the Elite 8. That year Marquette had 5 DIFFERENT leaders in the 5 major categories - points, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals. Each leader had a LOWER % of the team's total than Wade did on the 2002-03 team. Here's the breakdown:
Wade in 2002-3 MU's leader in 2012-13
Points: 27.3% 21.3% (Blue)
Rebounds: 17.7% 14.6% (Lockett)
Assists: 29.0% 28.0% (Cadougan)
Steals: 35.0% 15.7% (Jamil)
Blocks: 43.0% 25.0% (Otule)
Of course there is no such thing as a one man team, but the 2002-3 team was more dominated by one player than any good team in MU history. The fact that you could put Blue, Lockett, Cadougan, J Wilson and Otule in a blender and not come up with a player near as dominant as Wade in ANY category is mind blowing. 2012-13 was the epitome of "team". 2002-3 was a superstar carrying a bunch of good, OK and not so good guys who had "moments".
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That was just one quote, I'm not rewriting any history....there are other quotes, other interviews...that is hardly the only one. Note that I said twice there were a number of reasons he left, that particular quote substantiates TWO of them (not improving, chance to get home). Notice how no one has produce the alleged quote from the coach...tsk tsk.. ;)
My memory is that coach said something to the effect that he lacked some of the fundamentals including his left handed layup and Robert confirmed that...be it on radio or television show or whatever. I'll be happy to search high and low to find the actual quote if the original comment by the coach is produced.
I'm about to get on a plane to the northwest to attend a wedding of a former MU Athletic department member. This is a reunion of sorts with many of us that worked during the KO, Deane, Crean era. Should be some good stories this weekend....perhaps I'll ask them their memories.
Be curious to know how generous T-Cubed is with his weddin' gift, hey?
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Except the difference is Robert Jackson came in for his 4th and 5th years in college, and in his first 3 years in college he averaged over 10 ppg. So not exactly an apples to oranges comparison, but hey, Crean sure made Bob Jackson a playa!
Your hyperbole is excellent.
Here's the thing, in the very article I pulled those last quotes from the coach you love to hammer, the one that brought in the player that you have your username modeled after, states how good Jackson was. Ironic. He knew how good he was, and the kid decided to play for him at MU. Now, does that mean the kid, despite being 2nd team all SEC (not sure what that means in hoops), didn't have defiencies? Didn't have weaknesses? Of course he did. He got better at MU. No one, I repeat...NO ONE...said he came on campus not able to play....in cluding the coach who's own comments clearly point that out.
It was a good fit, a needed fit for this team. He played very well for the coach and the university. What a team that was.
Do you think we will see another one of that quality in the next 20 years years? That balanced?
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MU is a tremendous institution that is committed to basketball excellence. The results over the last 45 years have proven that out. So I consider our long term future bright.
My level of confidence in Coach Wojo is currently low, however I have confidence that if he turns out to be another Coach Dukiet , the administration will take the appropriate action . Lovell is a guy who wants to win too and won't let a under performing basketball coach get in the way of his vision . We don't have enough big donors to take a super long view on any particular coach.
Your posts are increasingly baffling to me. How can you not see what just about everyone else is seeing, including the experts, that Coach Wojo is doing an outstanding job and quickly building something very exciting to look forward to. Coach Dukiet was a disaster and to even begin to think Wojo has shown any indication that he is a Dukiet type coach is just puzzling to me.
We get it, you really like JJJ and Burton and it frustrates you that both are not earning their playing time and one of them even transferred and you need to place the blame somewhere. Guess what, Wojo is a winner and expects the game to be played a certain way. The players buying into that, such as Sandy Cohen, will earn more playing time and the ones that aren't, won't. That is excellent leadership and the recruits have to be loving what they are seeing out of Wojo and are excited to come in with the mindset that playing time is earned, not just given based on potential. Maybe in a year or two you will see how a leader doesn't back down from his beliefs for the short term, knowing they will hurt the cause for the long term.
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What a team. Haven't had anything close to that team since then in terms of overall balance.
Neither has Crean.
I said it while he was here and I'll say it again, DWade is to Larry Bird as Crean is to Bill Hodges.
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(http://www.dawngluskin.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Bright-Light1.jpg)
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Be curious to know how generous T-Cubed is with his weddin' gift, hey?
I heard he and Joanie are giving a soccer stadium...
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Be curious to know how generous T-Cubed is with his weddin' gift, hey?
Not sure whoo t-cubed is, but if it is a former coach, will not be here
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Not sure whoo t-cubed is, but if it is a former coach, will not be here
Too Tanned Tommy. Sounds like a great mafia name
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Too Tanned Tommy. Sounds like a great mafia name
But of course. Like all true Marquette fans you know who T-Cubed is.
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Not sure whoo t-cubed is, but if it is a former coach, will not be here
Not invited, eh? Another estranged co-worker.
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Your posts are increasingly baffling to me. How can you not see what just about everyone else is seeing, including the experts, that Coach Wojo is doing an outstanding job and quickly building something very exciting to look forward to. Coach Dukiet was a disaster and to even begin to think Wojo has shown any indication that he is a Dukiet type coach is just puzzling to me.
We get it, you really like JJJ and Burton and it frustrates you that both are not earning their playing time and one of them even transferred and you need to place the blame somewhere. Guess what, Wojo is a winner and expects the game to be played a certain way. The players buying into that, such as Sandy Cohen, will earn more playing time and the ones that aren't, won't. That is excellent leadership and the recruits have to be loving what they are seeing out of Wojo and are excited to come in with the mindset that playing time is earned, not just given based on potential. Maybe in a year or two you will see how a leader doesn't back down from his beliefs for the short term, knowing they will hurt the cause for the long term.
I disagree with the notion that Coach Wojo is a leader. He does not know how to lead and inspire young men. We are on our way to our worst year in many years. We started the year with a significant talent pool. Each season stands on it's own merits. There was plenty of talent that for a motivational coach to work with. Coach Wojo Talked the talk about the team being a family, then he installed a caste system. Sapped the motivation out of all the kids.
10-11
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I disagree with the notion that Coach Wojo is a leader. He does not know how to lead and inspire young men. We are on our way to our worst year in many years. We started the year with a significant talent pool. Each season stands on it's own merits. There was plenty of talent that for a motivational coach to work with. Coach Wojo Talked the talk about the team being a family, then he installed a caste system. Sapped the motivation out of all the kids.
10-11
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the issue I have is you tend to speak more factually, such as saying above that he does not know how to lead and inspire young men. How do you know that? I and many others see it differently. You say he ran kids off the team, I say he was showing a new team how to win and not everyone was on the same page. You say Carlino has disrupted team chemistry; I don't see that at all. You say he is using JJJ incorrectly and destroying his confidence; I say he is showing him how to be a winner in every facet of the game and so far JJJ is not grasping that. Feel free to give us your opinion, but don't say he installed a caste system with no proof and make it sound factual. Sapped the motivation out of ALL the kids? Really. Did you just write that? Have you watched this team play. The team quit against Seton Hall? Most of us saw just the opposite. You want to live in the here and now and are so concerned about the record this year and how JJJ's feeling are getting hurt. I want a coach that I feel is a very strong leader that realizes that to be a final four type of team in the future, talented players like JJJ need to play like winners all the time, not just show flashes of brilliance. Cohen is such a perfect example of why I think your opinions are so out of touch with reality. He is getting it, getting what it takes to be a winner. JJJ, not so much. I saw a player make an amazing dunk and then make two lazy mistakes shortly thereafter, something a player of his talent should not be doing on a regular basis. We all knew that it was going to be a tough year with an undersized team without any depth and some of the key players like JJJ and Burton being undisciplined players that haven't shown an all-around game to be playing in the Big East on a regular basis. They have learned so much this year and the returning players will be so much better prepared next year to play like winners and with the recruits coming in that Wojo recruited, the future is so incredibly bright, at least in my opinion. Good luck with all the negativity; it has to be so stressful to live that kind of life and feel so confident in your cynicism.
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I disagree with the notion that Coach Wojo is a leader. He does not know how to lead and inspire young men. We are on our way to our worst year in many years. We started the year with a significant talent pool. Each season stands on it's own merits. There was plenty of talent that for a motivational coach to work with. Coach Wojo Talked the talk about the team being a family, then he installed a caste system. Sapped the motivation out of all the kids.
10-11
They sure looked unmotivated today. They went through the motions and got killed by Butler. I think the final score was, what, 86-28?
We knew going into this season that we would get daily rants from Ners about Derrick. So this is what we have to look forward to from you? As long as Wojo is here, you are going to rip on him? Get a freakin' life.
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Kids wanna play. With only 8 on the roster, everyone's gettin' pt. as in life, you generally get what choo earn, aina?
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then he installed a caste system. Sapped the motivation out of all the kids.
I am curious what you mean by installed a caste system. By definition a caste system is a class structure that is determined by birth. Not sure how that term relates to a basketball team. If you are talking more in terms of a hierarchy, then yes Wojo has established one, along with pretty much every single coach in the game. The great thing about a hierarchy is that it can continually change. Based on his hard work in the pre-season, Sandy Cohen was starting at the beginning of the season and was a little higher up on the hierarchy and then he wasn't playing very good defense and was making a lot of rookie, mental mistakes and down he went on the hierarchy. He kept a great attitude however and because it appears to me that Wojo is a great motivator and communicator, he worked hard, cut down on his mistakes, got better defensively and magically he has gone up on the hierarchy and is seeing more playing time. It is actually pretty simple and the players need to know how to earn more playing time and not just have it handed it to them. I have to admire Coach Wojo so much for sticking to his beliefs and not thinking the way it appears that you think, short term and do everything you can to try and make everyone happy, which is just about impossible. He knows JJJ has talent and he also knows that by not playing him, he may lose him. That is a risk, but the bottom line is teaching JJJ how to be a winner is the most important thing to him and hopefully he gets it and stays at Marquette and becomes a productive member of the team for his last two years. If he leaves, did Wojo push him out the door and throw him under the bus, or did JJJ just not buy into what it takes to be a winner. We can all decide what we believe in that regard, but I am so liking what I am seeing so far, despite the win-loss record that is so close to being so much better.
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I talked to my manager buddy yesterday after the game (hadn't seen him all semester really) and we talked about all the close losses, how the team is handling it, so on and so forth. At one point I mentioned that it was encouraging to see JJJ play within himself and have a much better game yesterday relative to what the past month had been like. I asked him what his thoughts were on JJJ maybe wanting to leave after the season and he laughed in my face. Said from what he has seen (need I remind everyone these guys interact on a DAILY basis), Jajuan is putting in the effort and trying to becoming a better contributor to this team/program. Some times that means changing the way you go about the game (Does anyone think Buzz and Wojo are similar in the way they approach players and playing style???). But that takes time and can be frustrating. And wouldn't you know it, he logged 17 minutes yesterday and played pretty well.
I only bring this up because it bothers me when people on this board present their points as 100% stone-cold truth. That Wojo is playing "mind games" with guys, that the team is "giving up" on Wojo and not fighting because their "motivation is sapped" (Texas Western, that may have taken the cake as dumbest unnatural carnal knowledgeing comment I've read on this board is a loooooonnnnnng time, and Ners posts here). I don't post on this board with certainty unless I know what I'm saying has been backed by someone close to the team. So quit instigating, stirring the pot, spreading baseless rumors, because it makes this board toxic and I love coming here for MUBB news.
At the end of the day, any rational poster knew what this year was going to be like. We had a first-year coach, 3 first-year players who have been called upon heavily to contribute, 3 upperclassmen who have no business being major parts of a rotation, JJJ (already mentioned), and a one-year rental in Carlino. Little size and comical depth. Inexperienced talent and experienced frustration. What did you honestly expect from Wojo in year 1? Todd Mayo did not belong here. Deonte and Dawson felt this wasn't their place for different reasons. He's building a CULTURE and starting with a fresh slate. Personally, my expectations have been more than surpassed, especially since the Big East has been so solid this year. Take away the first 6 minutes of Seton Hall second half and this team has been in EVERY SINGLE GAME. Every one. This team, that on paper has no business being in some of these games. And their fight has been admirable game in and game out. We just don't have the horses in year 1. I'm frustrated that we can't close games but we are in these games. I could give a rat's ass about wins and losses at this point because I've been encouraged with the progression I've seen across the board. Wojo hasn't coached perfectly but who does? He will get better just like we will get better.
So I apologize for the "rant" but this board just becomes so damn frustrating with the same garbage spewed each day.
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Thank you for your one post. Thank you for saying who your source is. Thank you for your rationality and understanding of the obvious regarding this season. There is a reason why every major publication's preseason prediction had MU between 6th and 9th in the conference. Because impartial observers, who have been paid to follow the game closely, saw what you and many others did. This combination of players playing for a first-time head coach was never going to be a tourney team. Not enough size, not enough depth, not enough experienced talent, new system/coach.....
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You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the issue I have is you tend to speak more factually, such as saying above that he does not know how to lead and inspire young men. How do you know that? I and many others see it differently. You say he ran kids off the team, I say he was showing a new team how to win and not everyone was on the same page. You say Carlino has disrupted team chemistry; I don't see that at all. You say he is using JJJ incorrectly and destroying his confidence; I say he is showing him how to be a winner in every facet of the game and so far JJJ is not grasping that. Feel free to give us your opinion, but don't say he installed a caste system with no proof and make it sound factual. Sapped the motivation out of ALL the kids? Really. Did you just write that? Have you watched this team play. The team quit against Seton Hall? Most of us saw just the opposite. You want to live in the here and now and are so concerned about the record this year and how JJJ's feeling are getting hurt. I want a coach that I feel is a very strong leader that realizes that to be a final four type of team in the future, talented players like JJJ need to play like winners all the time, not just show flashes of brilliance. Cohen is such a perfect example of why I think your opinions are so out of touch with reality. He is getting it, getting what it takes to be a winner. JJJ, not so much. I saw a player make an amazing dunk and then make two lazy mistakes shortly thereafter, something a player of his talent should not be doing on a regular basis. We all knew that it was going to be a tough year with an undersized team without any depth and some of the key players like JJJ and Burton being undisciplined players that haven't shown an all-around game to be playing in the Big East on a regular basis. They have learned so much this year and the returning players will be so much better prepared next year to play like winners and with the recruits coming in that Wojo recruited, the future is so incredibly bright, at least in my opinion. Good luck with all the negativity; it has to be so stressful to live that kind of life and feel so confident in your cynicism.
I love how "showing guys how to be winners" continues to result in losses racking up. When you can't and aren't able to connect with very talented guys that don't share the same ilk/personality as you - that doesn't bode well for success. Time will tell if Wojo's gritty, lunch pail, slap the floor mentality, grinder type can win. Hell he's got just that in Derrick and Juan, and how's that working out for us?
Love when talented guys are called "undisciplined" then guys who have no talent, can't create shots, and basically are invisible out there get labeled as being able to "follow the game plan," "know their role," "assignment sure." All that jargon is generally is simply coach speak for guys who don't do jack on the court.
Burton?? Didn't have enough of an "all around game?" When he left - leader in FG% FT%, 3 point shooting percentage. In the top 10 OF ALL college basketball players as a freshman in Steal Percentage. All Big East freshman in 12 minutes per game of action. And some people here want to act as if he wasn't a major loss/that good??
You know what a winner is? It's recognizing talent in your organization, realizing that everyone can be motivated differently, figuring out a way to connect with a talented person who perhaps has a different mental make up than do you - and NOT having the person in your organization quit and take their talent elsewhere. Particularly when it is a blue chip talent, not easily sourced/secured.
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I talked to my manager buddy yesterday after the game (hadn't seen him all semester really) and we talked about all the close losses, how the team is handling it, so on and so forth. At one point I mentioned that it was encouraging to see JJJ play within himself and have a much better game yesterday relative to what the past month had been like. I asked him what his thoughts were on JJJ maybe wanting to leave after the season and he laughed in my face. Said from what he has seen (need I remind everyone these guys interact on a DAILY basis), Jajuan is putting in the effort and trying to becoming a better contributor to this team/program. Some times that means changing the way you go about the game (Does anyone think Buzz and Wojo are similar in the way they approach players and playing style???). But that takes time and can be frustrating. And wouldn't you know it, he logged 17 minutes yesterday and played pretty well.
I only bring this up because it bothers me when people on this board present their points as 100% stone-cold truth. That Wojo is playing "mind games" with guys, that the team is "giving up" on Wojo and not fighting because their "motivation is sapped" (Texas Western, that may have taken the cake as dumbest unnatural carnal knowledgeing comment I've read on this board is a loooooonnnnnng time, and Ners posts here). I don't post on this board with certainty unless I know what I'm saying has been backed by someone close to the team. So quit instigating, stirring the pot, spreading baseless rumors, because it makes this board toxic and I love coming here for MUBB news.
At the end of the day, any rational poster knew what this year was going to be like. We had a first-year coach, 3 first-year players who have been called upon heavily to contribute, 3 upperclassmen who have no business being major parts of a rotation, JJJ (already mentioned), and a one-year rental in Carlino. Little size and comical depth. Inexperienced talent and experienced frustration. What did you honestly expect from Wojo in year 1? Todd Mayo did not belong here. Deonte and Dawson felt this wasn't their place for different reasons. He's building a CULTURE and starting with a fresh slate. Personally, my expectations have been more than surpassed, especially since the Big East has been so solid this year. Take away the first 6 minutes of Seton Hall second half and this team has been in EVERY SINGLE GAME. Every one. This team, that on paper has no business being in some of these games. And their fight has been admirable game in and game out. We just don't have the horses in year 1. I'm frustrated that we can't close games but we are in these games. I could give a rat's ass about wins and losses at this point because I've been encouraged with the progression I've seen across the board. Wojo hasn't coached perfectly but who does? He will get better just like we will get better.
So I apologize for the "rant" but this board just becomes so damn frustrating with the same garbage spewed each day.
Good post by somebody who has closer connections to the team than most of us. I certainly am willing to give Wojo a chance, because of what the lonesome hillbilly left us. This poster admits that we have 3 upperclassmen that have no business being major parts of a rotation. Thank you Buzz for leaving the program in such good shape. Unfortunately we have people that feel that are our upperclassmen deserve those big minutes and blast others who do not feel that way. That does not change that others believe that some of those minutes should be given to the younger players to develop their game skills for the years to come. Instead, some posters denigrate the people that want to give the minutes to underclassmen, or even worse, they blast the skills of some of the underclassmen.
Why can't we all get along?
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I talked to my manager buddy yesterday after the game (hadn't seen him all semester really) and we talked about all the close losses, how the team is handling it, so on and so forth. At one point I mentioned that it was encouraging to see JJJ play within himself and have a much better game yesterday relative to what the past month had been like. I asked him what his thoughts were on JJJ maybe wanting to leave after the season and he laughed in my face. Said from what he has seen (need I remind everyone these guys interact on a DAILY basis), Jajuan is putting in the effort and trying to becoming a better contributor to this team/program. Some times that means changing the way you go about the game (Does anyone think Buzz and Wojo are similar in the way they approach players and playing style???). But that takes time and can be frustrating. And wouldn't you know it, he logged 17 minutes yesterday and played pretty well.
I only bring this up because it bothers me when people on this board present their points as 100% stone-cold truth. That Wojo is playing "mind games" with guys, that the team is "giving up" on Wojo and not fighting because their "motivation is sapped" (Texas Western, that may have taken the cake as dumbest unnatural carnal knowledgeing comment I've read on this board is a loooooonnnnnng time, and Ners posts here). I don't post on this board with certainty unless I know what I'm saying has been backed by someone close to the team. So quit instigating, stirring the pot, spreading baseless rumors, because it makes this board toxic and I love coming here for MUBB news.
At the end of the day, any rational poster knew what this year was going to be like. We had a first-year coach, 3 first-year players who have been called upon heavily to contribute, 3 upperclassmen who have no business being major parts of a rotation, JJJ (already mentioned), and a one-year rental in Carlino. Little size and comical depth. Inexperienced talent and experienced frustration. What did you honestly expect from Wojo in year 1? Todd Mayo did not belong here. Deonte and Dawson felt this wasn't their place for different reasons. He's building a CULTURE and starting with a fresh slate. Personally, my expectations have been more than surpassed, especially since the Big East has been so solid this year. Take away the first 6 minutes of Seton Hall second half and this team has been in EVERY SINGLE GAME. Every one. This team, that on paper has no business being in some of these games. And their fight has been admirable game in and game out. We just don't have the horses in year 1. I'm frustrated that we can't close games but we are in these games. I could give a rat's ass about wins and losses at this point because I've been encouraged with the progression I've seen across the board. Wojo hasn't coached perfectly but who does? He will get better just like we will get better.
So I apologize for the "rant" but this board just becomes so damn frustrating with the same garbage spewed each day.
Glad you can at least recognize this fact. So why then, does Wojo INSIST on playing 1 of those 3 guys 35 minutes per game (when he eats up a guard position - that is also played by a high potential, 4/5-star sophomore)? Juan you can justify his minutes - as at this point there isn't quite another guy like him on the team. Steve Taylor isn't getting many minutes - so his playing time is in line with what it should be.
But - Wojo had a guy in Burton that very easily could have filled Juan or Derrick's role. Duane and Carlino are more than capable of playing/trading off the PG position - yet in your words - Wojo continues to play "who has NO business playing major parts of a rotation?"
There are a lot of ways to teach the game - and in my observation - the way Wojo is going about trying to teach the game to JJJ - it's the wrong approach for JJJ as a player/personality. Furthermore, it is generally wrong to have double standards with regard to your patience/leash for players being allowed to play through mistakes.
Furthermore - some want to throw around O-Rating as a holy grail of a stat around here (which I'm not a huge fan of for a number of reasons), yet if you like - would you care to explain how Wojo's coaching/influence have resulted in JJJ's O-Rating dropping from 108.9 as a freshman to 88.2 as a sophomore?? Seems something isn't clicking.
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Glad you can at least recognize this fact. So why then, does Wojo INSIST on playing 1 of those 3 guys 35 minutes per game (when he eats up a guard position - that is also played by a high potential, 4/5-star sophomore)? Juan you can justify his minutes - as at this point there isn't quite another guy like him on the team. Steve Taylor isn't getting many minutes - so his playing time is in line with what it should be.
But - Wojo had a guy in Burton that very easily could have filled Juan or Derrick's role. Duane and Carlino are more than capable of playing/trading off the PG position - yet in your words - Wojo continues to play "who has NO business playing major parts of a rotation?"
There are a lot of ways to teach the game - and in my observation - the way Wojo is going about trying to teach the game to JJJ - it's the wrong approach for JJJ as a player/personality. Furthermore, it is generally wrong to have double standards with regard to your patience/leash for players being allowed to play through mistakes.
Furthermore - some want to throw around O-Rating as a holy grail of a stat around here (which I'm not a huge fan of for a number of reasons), yet if you like - would you care to explain how Wojo's coaching/influence have resulted in JJJ's O-Rating dropping from 108.9 as a freshman to 88.2 as a sophomore?? Seems something isn't clicking.
Ners you're absolutely wrong again and guilty of selective ignorance regarding stats.
Juan Anderson - 13-14 ORtg 93. 14-15 ORtg 102.4
Derrick Wilson - 13-14 ORtg 99. 14-15 ORtg 106.6
Steve Taylor - 13-14 ORtg 82.7. 14-15 ORtg 106.1
JuJuan Johnson - 13-14 ORtg 110.4. 14-15 ORtg 89.6
Three out of our four returning players who played any playing time last season have improved their offensive games yet you're going to take the one guy whose numbers have dropped and use that to evaluate Wojo's coaching/influence in his game???
I have always supported your ability to have a different opinion, but when your own stats don't line up with your argument it really makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about.
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I talked to my manager buddy yesterday after the game (hadn't seen him all semester really) and we talked about all the close losses, how the team is handling it, so on and so forth. At one point I mentioned that it was encouraging to see JJJ play within himself and have a much better game yesterday relative to what the past month had been like. I asked him what his thoughts were on JJJ maybe wanting to leave after the season and he laughed in my face. Said from what he has seen (need I remind everyone these guys interact on a DAILY basis), Jajuan is putting in the effort and trying to becoming a better contributor to this team/program. Some times that means changing the way you go about the game (Does anyone think Buzz and Wojo are similar in the way they approach players and playing style???). But that takes time and can be frustrating. And wouldn't you know it, he logged 17 minutes yesterday and played pretty well.
I only bring this up because it bothers me when people on this board present their points as 100% stone-cold truth. That Wojo is playing "mind games" with guys, that the team is "giving up" on Wojo and not fighting because their "motivation is sapped" (Texas Western, that may have taken the cake as dumbest unnatural carnal knowledgeing comment I've read on this board is a loooooonnnnnng time, and Ners posts here). I don't post on this board with certainty unless I know what I'm saying has been backed by someone close to the team. So quit instigating, stirring the pot, spreading baseless rumors, because it makes this board toxic and I love coming here for MUBB news.
At the end of the day, any rational poster knew what this year was going to be like. We had a first-year coach, 3 first-year players who have been called upon heavily to contribute, 3 upperclassmen who have no business being major parts of a rotation, JJJ (already mentioned), and a one-year rental in Carlino. Little size and comical depth. Inexperienced talent and experienced frustration. What did you honestly expect from Wojo in year 1? Todd Mayo did not belong here. Deonte and Dawson felt this wasn't their place for different reasons. He's building a CULTURE and starting with a fresh slate. Personally, my expectations have been more than surpassed, especially since the Big East has been so solid this year. Take away the first 6 minutes of Seton Hall second half and this team has been in EVERY SINGLE GAME. Every one. This team, that on paper has no business being in some of these games. And their fight has been admirable game in and game out. We just don't have the horses in year 1. I'm frustrated that we can't close games but we are in these games. I could give a rat's ass about wins and losses at this point because I've been encouraged with the progression I've seen across the board. Wojo hasn't coached perfectly but who does? He will get better just like we will get better.
So I apologize for the "rant" but this board just becomes so damn frustrating with the same garbage spewed each day.
Thanks for the info and setting the record straight. Nice to have some actual facts presented here.
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Ners you're absolutely wrong again and guilty of selective ignorance regarding stats.
Juan Anderson - 13-14 ORtg 93. 14-15 ORtg 102.4
Derrick Wilson - 13-14 ORtg 99. 14-15 ORtg 106.6
Steve Taylor - 13-14 ORtg 82.7. 14-15 ORtg 106.1
JuJuan Johnson - 13-14 ORtg 110.4. 14-15 ORtg 89.6
Three out of our four returning players who played any playing time last season have improved their offensive games yet you're going to take the one guy whose numbers have dropped and use that to evaluate Wojo's coaching/influence in his game???
I have always supported your ability to have a different opinion, but when your own stats don't line up with your argument it really makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about.
The topic at hand was discussing the coaching of JJJ Matty...Nowhere did I say "Wojo's coaching isn't improving ANY of our players O-Ratings."
The point is coaching different guys different ways. Interestingly, Burton went from 101.4 at a high usage rate as a freshman, to 95.4 (against only weaker competition of non-conference play) under Wojo.
As for Derrick, Steve and Juan - no doubt they have improved in O-Rating- yet we are talking some pretty abysmal ratings as starting points last season.
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Thanks for the info and setting the record straight. Nice to have some actual facts presented here.
So the OPINIONS of a team manager are now facts that have more merit than do the observations of those who have family ties to current and former players on the team? Uh Okay. ::)
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JaJuan will be fine...everything with be fine. You all need to look at the schedule and check those scores. We went to OT with two great teams these last few games. We should have beaten Omaha and DePaul but stupid things happen in this sport. MU could have easily beaten Georgetown twice, Xavier on the road, Butler, and St Johns. All teams that look to have a lot more talent and also have a set foundation to their team...
Flip side: We have a new coach, new system, and a ton of guys who haven't had important minutes in their past (except Carlino and Derrick). So I don't think you all need to flip out over close losses. Hell yeah it woulda been sweet for MU to be 14-7 right now instead of 10-11 but you can't really fault the effort. Wojo is still learning as well. The entire coaching staff is learning with Wojo this year. Take a step back and stay positive.
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So...was it just acknowledged that Texas Western is a family member of JJJ? And that he is posting negative stuff about JJJ's head coach in a public forum?
LOL....how pathetic.
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So...was it just acknowledged that Texas Western is a family member of JJJ? And that he is posting negative stuff about JJJ's head coach in a public forum?
LOL....how pathetic.
You can speculate all you want. Doesn't mean it is right. Or wrong. What is funny though is how many here who have NO ties whatsoever want to opine about the realities of the team while discrediting those opinions of guys tied much more closely. (And I'm not saying I'm one of the guys tied much more closely.)
However, I wouldn't make the assumption that Western is a family member of JJJ just because he is supportive of JJJ.
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The topic at hand was discussing the coaching of JJJ Matty...Nowhere did I say "Wojo's coaching isn't improving ANY of our players O-Ratings."
The point is coaching different guys different ways. Interestingly, Burton went from 101.4 at a high usage rate as a freshman, to 95.4 (against only weaker competition of non-conference play) under Wojo.
As for Derrick, Steve and Juan - no doubt they have improved in O-Rating- yet we are talking some pretty abysmal ratings as starting points last season.
Ners, here is your exact quote so it will be harder for you to squirm your way out of what you actually said.
"Furthermore - some want to throw around O-Rating as a holy grail of a stat around here (which I'm not a huge fan of for a number of reasons), yet if you like - would you care to explain how Wojo's coaching/influence have resulted in JJJ's O-Rating dropping from 108.9 as a freshman to 88.2 as a sophomore?? Seems something isn't clicking."
What were your implications really Ners?
And since you brought up JJJ's ORtg in the first place as an example of Wojo's 'coaching/influence' being detrimental towards JJJ, how can you honestly suggest JJJ (89.6) deserves some of Derrick's (106.6) minutes? It's pretty glaringly obvious based on almost all predictive measures who the better player is at this point.
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Glad you can at least recognize this fact. So why then, does Wojo INSIST on playing 1 of those 3 guys 35 minutes per game (when he eats up a guard position - that is also played by a high potential, 4/5-star sophomore)? Juan you can justify his minutes - as at this point there isn't quite another guy like him on the team. Steve Taylor isn't getting many minutes - so his playing time is in line with what it should be.
But - Wojo had a guy in Burton that very easily could have filled Juan or Derrick's role. Duane and Carlino are more than capable of playing/trading off the PG position - yet in your words - Wojo continues to play "who has NO business playing major parts of a rotation?"
There are a lot of ways to teach the game - and in my observation - the way Wojo is going about trying to teach the game to JJJ - it's the wrong approach for JJJ as a player/personality. Furthermore, it is generally wrong to have double standards with regard to your patience/leash for players being allowed to play through mistakes.
Furthermore - some want to throw around O-Rating as a holy grail of a stat around here (which I'm not a huge fan of for a number of reasons), yet if you like - would you care to explain how Wojo's coaching/influence have resulted in JJJ's O-Rating dropping from 108.9 as a freshman to 88.2 as a sophomore?? Seems something isn't clicking.
I made that "who has NO business playing major parts of a rotation" comment as more of an indictment of our roster's undeniable limitations this season than our coach making mistakes in who gets playing time. And no, I don't include Todd, Deonte, Dawson as a part of the roster. I've moved on and so should you. Wojo made it clear from the onset he wants to establish his own culture, one that differed greatly from Buzz's. Todd didn't fit that (hasn't fit anywhere), Deonte struggled greatly in this system and along with the passing of his mother, felt MU was no longer the place for him. I was obviously bummed out but understood while he is a stellar talent, he just did not mesh with what Wojo looks for and he wasn't willing to change his playing style (like what JJJ is doing this season) and opted to go to Transfer U. It's hard to argue against that, and it's important for Wojo to go out and find talented guys that do what Deonte was unwilling to. He's done a damn good job of it thus far.
As for Derrick, I think he has actually played pretty well this season. He has improved greatly offensively from where he was at last year to at least being a threat, and even then he's awfully limited (as mattyv's stats show). He is getting to the basket when outside of Duane and Matt, we have no one on this team who has shown the ability/willingness to consistently do that. And while some may inflate his defensive prowess, he is a great defender and rebounder for his size. Plain and simple. He had a large role in keeping Roosevelt Jones to only 2 points yesterday in fact. So in a season where we are as limited in talent and depth as it gets, they've both emerged as decent players.
Derrick and Juan were two of the nicest guys I got to know while managing, and couldn't be better ambassadors of the program. But Buzz missed on them as high-level prospects. Clearly. We all know this. We all know their limitations. So why continue to harp on that fact? Wojo has helped turn both of them into decent players this year and I've been impressed with both of them. But at the end of the day, you know their obvious limitations and deal with the fact that they just aren't that talented at this level. Derrick has been a better player than JJJ this year and while I agree with you that I am just waiting for something to click with JJJ where he lives up to his hype and deserves more minutes (ala Sandy), he has struggled with changing the way he plays this year. But I do like that when someone has played very well, Wojo sticks with them (Steve against St. Johns, Duane a number of games early, Sandy, even Jajuan yesterday). Something Buzz was terrible at doing, you know as well as anyone with how often you bring up Deonte's lack of usage while he was efficient last season.
Derrick and Juan graduate in May. We'll bring in more talent at that point. But they are a part of this team and my school so I will continue to pull for them as long as they put that jersey on. I've accepted their shortcomings and watch the games accordingly because we don't have many options this year. Starting next season that changes.
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I talked to my manager buddy yesterday after the game (hadn't seen him all semester really) and we talked about all the close losses, how the team is handling it, so on and so forth. At one point I mentioned that it was encouraging to see JJJ play within himself and have a much better game yesterday relative to what the past month had been like. I asked him what his thoughts were on JJJ maybe wanting to leave after the season and he laughed in my face. Said from what he has seen (need I remind everyone these guys interact on a DAILY basis), Jajuan is putting in the effort and trying to becoming a better contributor to this team/program. Some times that means changing the way you go about the game (Does anyone think Buzz and Wojo are similar in the way they approach players and playing style???). But that takes time and can be frustrating. And wouldn't you know it, he logged 17 minutes yesterday and played pretty well.
I only bring this up because it bothers me when people on this board present their points as 100% stone-cold truth. That Wojo is playing "mind games" with guys, that the team is "giving up" on Wojo and not fighting because their "motivation is sapped" (Texas Western, that may have taken the cake as dumbest unnatural carnal knowledgeing comment I've read on this board is a loooooonnnnnng time, and Ners posts here). I don't post on this board with certainty unless I know what I'm saying has been backed by someone close to the team. So quit instigating, stirring the pot, spreading baseless rumors, because it makes this board toxic and I love coming here for MUBB news.
At the end of the day, any rational poster knew what this year was going to be like. We had a first-year coach, 3 first-year players who have been called upon heavily to contribute, 3 upperclassmen who have no business being major parts of a rotation, JJJ (already mentioned), and a one-year rental in Carlino. Little size and comical depth. Inexperienced talent and experienced frustration. What did you honestly expect from Wojo in year 1? Todd Mayo did not belong here. Deonte and Dawson felt this wasn't their place for different reasons. He's building a CULTURE and starting with a fresh slate. Personally, my expectations have been more than surpassed, especially since the Big East has been so solid this year. Take away the first 6 minutes of Seton Hall second half and this team has been in EVERY SINGLE GAME. Every one. This team, that on paper has no business being in some of these games. And their fight has been admirable game in and game out. We just don't have the horses in year 1. I'm frustrated that we can't close games but we are in these games. I could give a rat's ass about wins and losses at this point because I've been encouraged with the progression I've seen across the board. Wojo hasn't coached perfectly but who does? He will get better just like we will get better.
So I apologize for the "rant" but this board just becomes so damn frustrating with the same garbage spewed each day.
Todd Mayo never belonged here and never should have been allowed to come here. I am not alone in that opinion which is shared by some former athletic department personnell. The blind eyes turned by that one still amazes me....too many Buzz sychophants on that decision.
As for the rest of the commentary....I agree with much of it. No idea if you are truly friends with a manager or not, but most of what you are saying is grounded in common sense.
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So...was it just acknowledged that Texas Western is a family member of JJJ? And that he is posting negative stuff about JJJ's head coach in a public forum?
LOL....how pathetic.
Head coach and teammates. Hope that doesn't get back to the team. I can't imagine it would go over very well
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I talked to my manager buddy yesterday after the game (hadn't seen him all semester really) and we talked about all the close losses, how the team is handling it, so on and so forth. At one point I mentioned that it was encouraging to see JJJ play within himself and have a much better game yesterday relative to what the past month had been like. I asked him what his thoughts were on JJJ maybe wanting to leave after the season and he laughed in my face. Said from what he has seen (need I remind everyone these guys interact on a DAILY basis), Jajuan is putting in the effort and trying to becoming a better contributor to this team/program. Some times that means changing the way you go about the game (Does anyone think Buzz and Wojo are similar in the way they approach players and playing style???). But that takes time and can be frustrating. And wouldn't you know it, he logged 17 minutes yesterday and played pretty well.
I only bring this up because it bothers me when people on this board present their points as 100% stone-cold truth. That Wojo is playing "mind games" with guys, that the team is "giving up" on Wojo and not fighting because their "motivation is sapped" (Texas Western, that may have taken the cake as dumbest unnatural carnal knowledgeing comment I've read on this board is a loooooonnnnnng time, and Ners posts here). I don't post on this board with certainty unless I know what I'm saying has been backed by someone close to the team. So quit instigating, stirring the pot, spreading baseless rumors, because it makes this board toxic and I love coming here for MUBB news.
At the end of the day, any rational poster knew what this year was going to be like. We had a first-year coach, 3 first-year players who have been called upon heavily to contribute, 3 upperclassmen who have no business being major parts of a rotation, JJJ (already mentioned), and a one-year rental in Carlino. Little size and comical depth. Inexperienced talent and experienced frustration. What did you honestly expect from Wojo in year 1? Todd Mayo did not belong here. Deonte and Dawson felt this wasn't their place for different reasons. He's building a CULTURE and starting with a fresh slate. Personally, my expectations have been more than surpassed, especially since the Big East has been so solid this year. Take away the first 6 minutes of Seton Hall second half and this team has been in EVERY SINGLE GAME. Every one. This team, that on paper has no business being in some of these games. And their fight has been admirable game in and game out. We just don't have the horses in year 1. I'm frustrated that we can't close games but we are in these games. I could give a rat's ass about wins and losses at this point because I've been encouraged with the progression I've seen across the board. Wojo hasn't coached perfectly but who does? He will get better just like we will get better.
So I apologize for the "rant" but this board just becomes so damn frustrating with the same garbage spewed each day.
Good post. The bolded part is certainly true. What is lacking from a select few posters even more than a simple knowledge of the game of basketball is simple common sense. I could go to Sydney, a place where they really don't follow basketball, and describe the situation (not 1, but 2 coaching staffs - professionals, people paid literally millions of dollars to do this job - decided that Derrick is the best option at the point guard, and some people sitting on a message board getting paid $0 to make such decisions insist they know more about the game and the coaches are playing the wrong guys), and 100% of the people would get it right, without a single clue about the game of basketball.
There have been a number of posters that recently were away from Scoop for a period of time for one reason or another that allowed this board to be very enjoyable. You could come on here and have an intelligent discussion about a number of Marquette basketball topics. Now every one of those posters is around and every single thread turns into the same exact topic, them knowing more than 2 separate coaching staffs, whose salaries average (guestimate here) over $1 million per coach on staff to make these types of decisions, some siting their high school basketball playing experience (as if they're the only posters to ever play the game at the high school level or beyond, and as if playing at that level is incredibly difficult and somehow makes them more qualified than a high school All American Duke point guard, an NCAA All American Florida point guard, an NCAA All American Marquette/NBA point guard, 2 other former Duke players, and another former D1 head coach), and telling us all who should be playing.
It's absolutely hilarious that these people site JJJ's high school rankings as the reason he needs to play more. Right there is 100% confirming that they have no idea how to evaluate actual talent and just rely on some website that clearly got it wrong to tell them what players are good (mind you, those rankings are from what he was doing against high school talent 2 1/2 summers ago). Those same people then claim that Steve Taylor Jr. is getting the correct amount of minutes despite being ranked in the same ballpark by the same recruiting services, so how the argument can be made for 1 player but not for the other is beyond me (like much of their "intelligence").
These same posters claim that a division 1 basketball coach was intentionally playing the players he knew would make the team lose to stick it to the athletic department. Even if Bert wanted out of Marquette and knew it heading into last season, intentionally losing basketball games is not the way for a division 1 basketball coach to find his next destination. Again, it's just a simple lack of basic common sense, you don't even need an understanding of the game of basketball to do that. It would be sweet if that's how easy it were to make what you consider the next step up in your profession, because then all I'd have to do to become the CFO of my company is make sure all the numbers I am coming up with at work are the wrong numbers. See how silly that is? Any reasonable person would, but not these select few posters.
Same song and dance with intentionally messing with a players head. That's a real solid way to make sure you get the recruits you need to win into your program. Just make sure you mess with the 18-22 year old heads of the players already in the program, they will make sure to give glowing reviews to all the recruits you bring in for visits who they tweet at, text, etc. constantly. Again, just simple common sense, no need for basketball knowledge.
Then they also suggest that a power forward should be taking minutes from our point guard. Again, no knowledge needed, this simply is a lack of common sense. Our point guard is taking minutes from our power forward. Hmm. So, when Charles Barkley went to the bench, Kevin Johnson was the one taking minutes from him, despite them both being on the court at the same time (since one was a point guard and the other a power forward)? Man, revolutionary stuff.
Claiming we have 2 point guards that we should be playing instead of Derrick is funny too. This one, however, does take a little bit of knowledge of the game, so this I can understand why it would be hard for those few posters to grasp. They're asking for a redshirt freshman who has an assist to turnover ratio of 1.3 to 1 and a senior who has a 1.5 to 1 assist to turnover ratio to run the offense for this team and take away the most important things they bring to the table. Duane and Matt are at their best when they are coming off of screens and moving off the ball. I think we've all seen over the course of our number of tight games what happens to our offense when Carlino is the one bringing the ball up. How many late game possessions have we had with a chance to hit a big basket, or overtime possessions where Carlino is handling the ball, and he ends up taking a contested 3 pointer or driving into 4 defenders in the paint and trying to finish through them? I can recall 1 time where it worked out, and that was the end of the Georgetown game. Other than that it has always resulted in horrible possessions. Those 2 are by far and away much better playing off the ball, but let's take those strengths away from them and sit the guy with a 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio so that we can have our point guard have an A:T ratio of half of that. That's smart. Reasonable. You want your point guard to initiate the offense, handle the basketball, make solid decisions, and get others involved. So let's sit the guy who does that, and also take away the biggest strength from 1 of our 2 best players (depending on which 1 you choose to run the point between Duane and Carlino). Solid thought process there.
These posters also claim to have a better understanding of the type of coaching that our players respond to despite never having spent more than maybe 5 minutes total in their lives with these players, while our coaches spend multiple hours a day with the players. Again, this comes back to basic common sense, not even an understanding of the game of basketball. "Hey guys, the longest conversation I've ever had with this person is, 'Hi, I'm a really big fan of you! Good luck tonight!' Meanwhile, those guys that are on the bench with them spend every day with them. But hey, I know what these kids need more than those guys on the bench do, and they're doing it all wrong!'" Hilarious.
This place is becoming unbearable. 4 or 5 posters and their lack of common sense and and understanding of the game completely dominate Scoop. It was a breath of fresh air when they weren't around for a time being.
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Ners, here is your exact quote so it will be harder for you to squirm your way out of what you actually said.
"Furthermore - some want to throw around O-Rating as a holy grail of a stat around here (which I'm not a huge fan of for a number of reasons), yet if you like - would you care to explain how Wojo's coaching/influence have resulted in JJJ's O-Rating dropping from 108.9 as a freshman to 88.2 as a sophomore?? Seems something isn't clicking."
What were your implications really Ners?
And since you brought up JJJ's ORtg in the first place as an example of Wojo's 'coaching/influence' being detrimental towards JJJ, how can you honestly suggest JJJ (89.6) deserves some of Derrick's (106.6) minutes? It's pretty glaringly obvious based on almost all predictive measures who the better player is at this point.
The original post OnePost made - he was discussing the managers take on JJJ/Wojo's coaching. Also, I believe that you do coach different players differently - a one size fits all approach does NOT work - and I believe that at present is Wojo's way.
As for the JJJ/Derrick O-Rating debate - I'm not a huge fan of O-rating as an indicator - as it places WAY too much weight on turnovers. It essentially rewards guys who play a very conservative brand of basketball. It doesn't take into account a player's Usage Rating (which I feel is a MUCH better metric for assessing a player's value to a team.) Furthermore when your O-rating is compiled over 15 minutes per game, and you get yanked at the first sign of trouble - a turnover/missed shot - and get benched, it kills your O-Rating. I refuse to place statistical validity toward a player getting 15 minutes per game and their O-rating versus a guy who gets 30 minutes + every night for 2 years straight.
To further support why I don't like O-Rating as a metric: Who would you rather have on the floor: Jake Thomas or Duane Wilson? They play roughly the same amount of minutes for their teams - ~70%. Who has the better O-Rating?? Jake Thomas at 108.3 to 102.5 for Duane.
The deficit Derrick creates due to playing so incredibly passive, hurts the team as a whole (that is hard to measure other than realizing his two MU teams have been our worst team rated O-Efficiency in the last 13 years of Pomeroy rankings. Once again you have a guy playing 75+% of ALL minutes and he gets classified by Pomeroy as a limited role.
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Good post. The bolded part is certainly true. What is lacking from a select few posters even more than a simple knowledge of the game of basketball is simple common sense. I could go to Sydney, a place where they really don't follow basketball, and describe the situation (not 1, but 2 coaching staffs - professionals, people paid literally millions of dollars to do this job - decided that Derrick is the best option at the point guard, and some people sitting on a message board getting paid $0 to make such decisions insist they know more about the game and the coaches are playing the wrong guys), and 100% of the people would get it right, without a single clue about the game of basketball.
There have been a number of posters that recently were away from Scoop for a period of time for one reason or another that allowed this board to be very enjoyable. You could come on here and have an intelligent discussion about a number of Marquette basketball topics. Now every one of those posters is around and every single thread turns into the same exact topic, them knowing more than 2 separate coaching staffs, whose salaries average (guestimate here) over $1 million per coach on staff to make these types of decisions, some siting their high school basketball playing experience (as if they're the only posters to ever play the game at the high school level or beyond, and as if playing at that level is incredibly difficult and somehow makes them more qualified than a high school All American Duke point guard, an NCAA All American Florida point guard, an NCAA All American Marquette/NBA point guard, 2 other former Duke players, and another former D1 head coach), and telling us all who should be playing.
It's absolutely hilarious that these people site JJJ's high school rankings as the reason he needs to play more. Right there is 100% confirming that they have no idea how to evaluate actual talent and just rely on some website that clearly got it wrong to tell them what players are good (mind you, those rankings are from what he was doing against high school talent 2 1/2 summers ago). Those same people then claim that Steve Taylor Jr. is getting the correct amount of minutes despite being ranked in the same ballpark by the same recruiting services, so how the argument can be made for 1 player but not for the other is beyond me (like much of their "intelligence").
These same posters claim that a division 1 basketball coach was intentionally playing the players he knew would make the team lose to stick it to the athletic department. Even if Bert wanted out of Marquette and knew it heading into last season, intentionally losing basketball games is not the way for a division 1 basketball coach to find his next destination. Again, it's just a simple lack of basic common sense, you don't even need an understanding of the game of basketball to do that. It would be sweet if that's how easy it were to make what you consider the next step up in your profession, because then all I'd have to do to become the CFO of my company is make sure all the numbers I am coming up with at work are the wrong numbers. See how silly that is? Any reasonable person would, but not these select few posters.
Same song and dance with intentionally messing with a players head. That's a real solid way to make sure you get the recruits you need to win into your program. Just make sure you mess with the 18-22 year old heads of the players already in the program, they will make sure to give glowing reviews to all the recruits you bring in for visits who they tweet at, text, etc. constantly. Again, just simple common sense, no need for basketball knowledge.
Then they also suggest that a power forward should be taking minutes from our point guard. Again, no knowledge needed, this simply is a lack of common sense. Our point guard is taking minutes from our power forward. Hmm. So, when Charles Barkley went to the bench, Kevin Johnson was the one taking minutes from him, despite them both being on the same court and one being a point guard and the other a power forward? Man, revolutionary stuff.
Claiming we have 2 point guards that we should be playing instead of Derrick is funny too. This one, however, does take a little bit of knowledge of the game, so this I can understand why it would be hard for those few posters to grasp. They're asking for a redshirt freshman who has an assist to turnover ratio of 1.3 to 1 and a senior who has a 1.5 to 1 assist to turnover ratio to run the offense for this team and take away the most important things they bring to the table. Duane and Matt are at their best when they are coming off of screens and moving off the ball. I think we've all seen over the course of our number of tight games what happens to our offense when Carlino is the one bringing the ball up. How many late game possessions have we had with a chance to hit a big basket, or overtime possessions where Carlino is handling the ball, and he ends up taking a contested 3 pointer or driving into 4 defenders in the paint and trying to finish through them? I can recall 1 time where it worked out, and that was the end of the Georgetown game. Other than that it has always resulted in horrible possessions. Those 2 are by far and away much better playing off the ball, but let's take those strengths away from them and sit the guy with a 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio so that we can have our point guard have an A:T ratio of half of that. That's smart. Reasonable. You want your point guard to initiate the offense, handle the basketball, make solid decisions, and get others involved. So let's sit the guy who does that, and also take away the biggest strength from 1 of our 2 best players (depending on which 1 you choose to run the point between Duane and Carlino). Solid thought process there.
These posters also claim to have a better understanding of the type of coaching that our players respond to despite never having spent more than maybe 5 minutes total in their lives with these players, while our coaches spend multiple hours a day with the players. Again, this comes back to basic common sense, not even an understanding of the game of basketball. "Hey guys, the longest conversation I've ever had with this person is, 'Hi, I'm a really big fan of you! Good luck tonight!' Meanwhile, those guys that are on the bench with them spend every day with them. But hey, I know what these kids need more than those guys on the bench do, and they're doing it all wrong!'" Hilarious.
This place is becoming unbearable. 4 or 5 posters and their lack of common sense and and understanding of the game completely dominate Scoop. It was a breath of fresh air when they weren't around for a time being.
Wow - LOL. Board would be much more enjoyable if guys who have volleyball medals would stick to what they know.
I'll indulge you for a minute: Did Holmgren have it right on Majikowski over Farve? Belicheck right on Bledsoe over Brady?
LOL. Yes, two Hall of Fame coaches that have won Super Bowl titles, chose a veteran over a more talented understudy. Just because you get paid millions of dollars to coach a sport, does not mean you make the right decisions 100% of the time.
Did you second guess McCarthy against Seattle? Well if you did - Shut up - You aren't paid millions to coach football. Coaches never ever get it wrong. Arguments never take place among highly paid talent scouts in teams front offices as to player's talent/potential.
End of the day. What is the ultimate assessment of a coaches decisions? Win/loss record.
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Good post. The bolded part is certainly true. What is lacking from a select few posters even more than a simple knowledge of the game of basketball is simple common sense. I could go to Sydney, a place where they really don't follow basketball, and describe the situation (not 1, but 2 coaching staffs - professionals, people paid literally millions of dollars to do this job - decided that Derrick is the best option at the point guard, and some people sitting on a message board getting paid $0 to make such decisions insist they know more about the game and the coaches are playing the wrong guys), and 100% of the people would get it right, without a single clue about the game of basketball.
There have been a number of posters that recently were away from Scoop for a period of time for one reason or another that allowed this board to be very enjoyable. You could come on here and have an intelligent discussion about a number of Marquette basketball topics. Now every one of those posters is around and every single thread turns into the same exact topic, them knowing more than 2 separate coaching staffs, whose salaries average (guestimate here) over $1 million per coach on staff to make these types of decisions, some siting their high school basketball playing experience (as if they're the only posters to ever play the game at the high school level or beyond, and as if playing at that level is incredibly difficult and somehow makes them more qualified than a high school All American Duke point guard, an NCAA All American Florida point guard, an NCAA All American Marquette/NBA point guard, 2 other former Duke players, and another former D1 head coach), and telling us all who should be playing.
It's absolutely hilarious that these people site JJJ's high school rankings as the reason he needs to play more. Right there is 100% confirming that they have no idea how to evaluate actual talent and just rely on some website that clearly got it wrong to tell them what players are good (mind you, those rankings are from what he was doing against high school talent 2 1/2 summers ago). Those same people then claim that Steve Taylor Jr. is getting the correct amount of minutes despite being ranked in the same ballpark by the same recruiting services, so how the argument can be made for 1 player but not for the other is beyond me (like much of their "intelligence").
These same posters claim that a division 1 basketball coach was intentionally playing the players he knew would make the team lose to stick it to the athletic department. Even if Bert wanted out of Marquette and knew it heading into last season, intentionally losing basketball games is not the way for a division 1 basketball coach to find his next destination. Again, it's just a simple lack of basic common sense, you don't even need an understanding of the game of basketball to do that. It would be sweet if that's how easy it were to make what you consider the next step up in your profession, because then all I'd have to do to become the CFO of my company is make sure all the numbers I am coming up with at work are the wrong numbers. See how silly that is? Any reasonable person would, but not these select few posters.
Same song and dance with intentionally messing with a players head. That's a real solid way to make sure you get the recruits you need to win into your program. Just make sure you mess with the 18-22 year old heads of the players already in the program, they will make sure to give glowing reviews to all the recruits you bring in for visits who they tweet at, text, etc. constantly. Again, just simple common sense, no need for basketball knowledge.
Then they also suggest that a power forward should be taking minutes from our point guard. Again, no knowledge needed, this simply is a lack of common sense. Our point guard is taking minutes from our power forward. Hmm. So, when Charles Barkley went to the bench, Kevin Johnson was the one taking minutes from him, despite them both being on the court at the same time (since one was a point guard and the other a power forward)? Man, revolutionary stuff.
Claiming we have 2 point guards that we should be playing instead of Derrick is funny too. This one, however, does take a little bit of knowledge of the game, so this I can understand why it would be hard for those few posters to grasp. They're asking for a redshirt freshman who has an assist to turnover ratio of 1.3 to 1 and a senior who has a 1.5 to 1 assist to turnover ratio to run the offense for this team and take away the most important things they bring to the table. Duane and Matt are at their best when they are coming off of screens and moving off the ball. I think we've all seen over the course of our number of tight games what happens to our offense when Carlino is the one bringing the ball up. How many late game possessions have we had with a chance to hit a big basket, or overtime possessions where Carlino is handling the ball, and he ends up taking a contested 3 pointer or driving into 4 defenders in the paint and trying to finish through them? I can recall 1 time where it worked out, and that was the end of the Georgetown game. Other than that it has always resulted in horrible possessions. Those 2 are by far and away much better playing off the ball, but let's take those strengths away from them and sit the guy with a 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio so that we can have our point guard have an A:T ratio of half of that. That's smart. Reasonable. You want your point guard to initiate the offense, handle the basketball, make solid decisions, and get others involved. So let's sit the guy who does that, and also take away the biggest strength from 1 of our 2 best players (depending on which 1 you choose to run the point between Duane and Carlino). Solid thought process there.
These posters also claim to have a better understanding of the type of coaching that our players respond to despite never having spent more than maybe 5 minutes total in their lives with these players, while our coaches spend multiple hours a day with the players. Again, this comes back to basic common sense, not even an understanding of the game of basketball. "Hey guys, the longest conversation I've ever had with this person is, 'Hi, I'm a really big fan of you! Good luck tonight!' Meanwhile, those guys that are on the bench with them spend every day with them. But hey, I know what these kids need more than those guys on the bench do, and they're doing it all wrong!'" Hilarious.
This place is becoming unbearable. 4 or 5 posters and their lack of common sense and and understanding of the game completely dominate Scoop. It was a breath of fresh air when they weren't around for a time being.
Wades, I'm telling you, just put Ners and Willie on ignore. First people I've ever put on ignore and its amazingly liberating. Obviously some of their vitriol spills over but you can at least navigate it and have rational discussions about the team....even Derrick.
Bottom line for me, while the losses are frustrating there has been so much to appreciate about Wojo and this team and a ton of growth from everyone. I prefer to focus on that and can accept that Wojo is making smart choices. This team is shaping up to be the team looks terrible on paper from a record standpoint and will be undervalued next year. They will be very good next year.
Lastly, I'm so bullish on this team, I will say it's a 60-40 probability that MU will be playing in the elite 8 next year.
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Just because you get paid millions of dollars to coach a sport, does not mean you make the right decisions 100% of the time.
Agreed.
And just because you were a high school basketball player does not mean you have the answers 100% of the time.
Do you even read what you write?
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Wades, I'm telling you, just put Ners and Willie on ignore. First people I've ever put on ignore and its amazingly liberating. Obviously some of their vitriol spills over but you can at least navigate it and have rational discussions about the team....even Derrick.
Bottom line for me, while the losses are frustrating there has been so much to appreciate about Wojo and this team and a ton of growth from everyone. I prefer to focus on that and can accept that Wojo is making smart choices. This team is shaping up to be the team looks terrible on paper from a record standpoint and will be undervalued next year. They will be very good next year.
Lastly, I'm so bullish on this team, I will say it's a 60-40 probability that MU will be playing in the elite 8 next year.
You must think Henry Ellenson is going to be the second coming of Shaquille O'Neal? I agree we should be better simply by default of finally being forced to play someone else at PG. But to think we have a 60-40 shot at the Elite 8 - and some call me delusional?! You think this lineup/team is even NCAA worthy?
Duane/Cheatham/Nic?
Cohen/JJJ/Cheatham?
Wally/Steve Taylor
Henry/Steve Taylor
Luke/Heldt
Losing Carlino will hurt a lot. We will have NO proven 2nd guard scoring option next season. Cheatham could be a player, but he's going to need a TON of strength to help next season - think he'll probably be very similar to what Sandy has been this year.
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So the OPINIONS of a team manager are now facts that have more merit than do the observations of those who have family ties to current and former players on the team? Uh Okay. ::)
I have no idea if onepostelleson is truly friends with a manager. Though I will say his post made a lot of sense to me and makes a lot more sense than a lot of the conspiracy theories I've heard on here. But assuming he is telling the truth about that, yes. I would take the word of a student manager over a relative of a player seven ways to Sunday.
I work with parents/relatives of college students every day. On average, they are overbearing and misguided. At their worst, they are damn near psychotic in their defense of their children (think Tim Maymon). The culture of the parent to student to university employee relationship has changed drastically from even the time when you were in school. Parents used to put unshakeable trust in teachers, coaches, and support staff. If a kid was performing poorly, be it on the court, off the court, or in the classroom, the parents would tell the kid to stop screwing up and work harder. Now, parents believe their children deserve special treatment and that their little angel is better than all of the rest. When their angel isn't getting the grade or playing time the parents feel they deserve, they lash out at the coaches and teachers. It couldn't possibly be because their child didn't earn the grade or the playing time. The coach must be mistreating them or playing favorites with the other players. The comic below illustrates the point nicely:
(https://artofeducation.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/parents-yelling-at-teachers.jpg)
Sometimes, the parents do this despite the protests of their child. The stories you heard about Jerrone Maymon calling teammates in tears because he didn't want to transfer but his dad was forcing it? I've heard them from more than one person. I serve on conduct panels at TAMU have had parents barge into my office to yell at me about somehow I mistreated their child during the conduct process. As soon as they leave, the student comes back into my office to apologize for their parent.
Of course, it's not always the parents' fault. Not entirely. College students lie. Parents are not in the classroom, they are not in the locker room, they are not in practice. When their child says that a teacher is biased against them, or a coach is playing favorites with the other players, they have no other information to base it on. Most parents want to believe their students. They want to believe that their students is the best and if they are not doing well, it must be because someone is working against them. When I worked with tutoring in grad school, I would have parents screaming at me on the phone because I caused their student's scholarship to be revoked because I didn't approve their son or daughter's time in tutoring. Unfortunately, because of privacy laws such as FERPA, I couldn't tell them that their child never showed up to tutoring despite being put on academic probation and being given multiple warnings that if they didn't go to tutoring, they would lose their scholarship.
I have no idea what family connections people have here. I have no idea what players may or may not be telling these family members. I am also aware that many people on here are parents, and I am not, so I have a hard time understanding their point of view. All I'm saying is that in my experience, parents/relatives often act without all of the necessary information and have the tendency to be blinded by the love and support they have for their child in order to give an objective opinion about situations like this. I would take any information you get from family members with a grain of salt.
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However, I wouldn't make the assumption that Western is a family member of JJJ just because he is supportive of JJJ.
I've said this before, and I've said this again, I really hope Texas Western is giving you permission to say these things. He has never claimed to be a relative of anyone on the team. But you have had no problem outing him. That is kind of a dick move unless TW has given you his blessing.
Based on this, it seems that you are implying Texas Western is another Dawson family member who found his way on to the board. It makes sense. He didn't join until after Dawson committed. He has always been pro-Dawson. Also, UTEP, formerly known as Texas Western, is one of the closest D1 programs to Dawson's hometown of Clovis, NM. He also didn't become outspoken about Wojo's treatment of the players and playing time until after Dawson committed. As Sultan pointed out, it would be highly inappropriate for a relative of a player to be trashing the head coach. I've never met John, but those I knew who had met him described him as a very respectful and hard working man. I would assume his family members were the same, so this person refrained until after John left for Liberty.
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You must think Henry Ellenson is going to be the second coming of Shaquille O'Neal? I agree we should be better simply by default of finally being forced to play someone else at PG. But to think we have a 60-40 shot at the Elite 8 - and some call me delusional?! You think this lineup/team is even NCAA worthy?
Duane/Cheatham/Nic?
Cohen/JJJ/Cheatham?
Wally/Steve Taylor
Henry/Steve Taylor
Luke/Heldt
Losing Carlino will hurt a lot. We will have NO proven 2nd guard scoring option next season. Cheatham could be a player, but he's going to need a TON of strength to help next season - think he'll probably be very similar to what Sandy has been this year.
This is one place where we agree. I would careful to put too many expectations on next year's team. I think low NCAA bid is the most reasonable expectation. Elite Eight is way too high of an expectation. However, if we find a stud PG somewhere in the grad transfer or JUCO ranks, I may change my tune.
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I've said this before, and I've said this again, I really hope Texas Western is giving you permission to say these things. He has never claimed to be a relative of anyone on the team. But you have had no problem outing him. That is kind of a dick move unless TW has given you his blessing.
Based on this, it seems that you are implying Texas Western is another Dawson family member who found his way on to the board. It makes sense. He didn't join until after Dawson committed. He has always been pro-Dawson. Also, UTEP, formerly known as Texas Western, is one of the closest D1 programs to Dawson's hometown of Clovis, NM. He also didn't become outspoken about Wojo's treatment of the players and playing time until after Dawson committed. As Sultan pointed out, it would be highly inappropriate for a relative of a player to be trashing the head coach. I've never met John, but those I knew who had met him described him as a very respectful and hard working man. I would assume his family members were the same, so this person refrained until after John left for Liberty.
If TW is connected to John Dawson, I suggest he simply leave. He no longer has a connection to the program. There is absolutely no reason for him to be here trashing the coach. If he is connected to another player currently on the roster, he should simply STFU. (I do find it amusing that he brought up Mike Deane as a "good coach." My guess is that he looked it up on Wikipedia.)
And having a regular poster on this board enabling that behavior is mind-numbing at best, and borderline unethical at worst.
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This is one place where we agree. I would careful to put too many expectations on next year's team. I think low NCAA bid is the most reasonable expectation. Elite Eight is way too high of an expectation. However, if we find a stud PG somewhere in the grad transfer or JUCO ranks, I may change my tune.
It's not an expectation on my part, it's a prediction....there is a difference. I also predict we will have a grad transfer PG and a Juco big man added to the roster in the off season.
Based on all of that, I would expect a top 8 seeding in the tournament and expect to play on the first Saturday/Sunday. But I predict we get an elite 8....just a feeling I have with everything going on, and how under the radar the team will be next year given what this year's record will be.
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So...was it just acknowledged that Texas Western is a family member of JJJ? And that he is posting negative stuff about JJJ's head coach in a public forum?
LOL....how pathetic.
Personally, I find Texas Western's posts to be pathetic, whether or not he is related to a player on the team or has any connection to anyone. If he really does have some type of connection, then that makes his posts even more outrageous. I don't have a problem with him having a different opinion than myself or many others, but it is his constant attacks on Wojo without justification that bother me the most. Yes, go ahead and argue back and forth on situations such as whether Wojo managed the end of the Butler game correctly. That is message board worthy and makes sense why people might have different opinions on that. Don't however, continuously call out Wojo as someone who has treated his players poorly, driven people off the team, thrown people under the bus, etc. This is just all wild speculation from one or two posters and there is no evidence of any of this happening and is even refuted by people who really do have some inside knowledge. Let it go TW, let it go. Wojo will continue to distribute playing time based on the facts of how people are doing in practice and the games. He has shown that very consistently since the beginning of the season and why you have such a problem with it is beyond me, except for the fact that you must have a connection to one of the players currently not living up to expectations that is therefore seeing reduced playing time. They will either earn it like Cohen did, or choose to leave like Burton and Dawson did.
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Personally, I find Texas Western's posts to be pathetic, whether or not he is related to a player on the team or has any connection to anyone. If he really does have some type of connection, then that makes his posts even more outrageous. I don't have a problem with him having a different opinion than myself or many others, but it is his constant attacks on Wojo without justification that bother me the most. Yes, go ahead and argue back and forth on situations such as whether Wojo managed the end of the Butler game correctly. That is message board worthy and makes sense why people might have different opinions on that. Don't however, continuously call out Wojo as someone who has treated his players poorly, driven people off the team, thrown people under the bus, etc. This is just all wild speculation from one or two posters and there is no evidence of any of this happening and is even refuted by people who really do have some inside knowledge. Let it go TW, let it go. Wojo will continue to distribute playing time based on the facts of how people are doing in practice and the games. He has shown that very consistently since the beginning of the season and why you have such a problem with it is beyond me, except for the fact that you must have a connection to one of the players currently not living up to expectations that is therefore seeing reduced playing time. They will either earn it like Cohen did, or choose to leave like Burton and Dawson did.
Spot on. Plus his attacks on current players and recruits.
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Good post. The bolded part is certainly true. What is lacking from a select few posters even more than a simple knowledge of the game of basketball is simple common sense...
This place is becoming unbearable. 4 or 5 posters and their lack of common sense and and understanding of the game completely dominate Scoop. It was a breath of fresh air when they weren't around for a time being.
It's a good summary wades, and you've left out half of the truly friggin insane, contradicting arguments the one poster makes. The mods have made it clear they are going to be extraordinarily lenient before handing out bans, so it is up to everyone else to stop being baited into arguing. We all think, "Hey, I have a fact-based, statistical-based inarguable point that will finally show him the light." Uh-uh, NOTHING anyone says here can derail the insane train.