MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GGGG on January 26, 2015, 12:21:20 PM
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Interesting comparison.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=darius-johnson-odom&i=1&p1=2-matt-carlino
Matt Carlino has been labelled a "chucker" by some. However he shoots less than DJO did while basically being the same in minutes played, yet I never heard that used to describe him. Could it be because Carlino takes 58% of his shots from 3, while DJO only took 42% his senior year?
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Interesting comparison.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=darius-johnson-odom&i=1&p1=2-matt-carlino
Matt Carlino has been labelled a "chucker" by some. However he shoots less than DJO did while basically being the same in minutes played, yet I never heard that used to describe him. Could it be because Carlino takes 58% of his shots from 3, while DJO only took 42% his senior year?
I think it's more that DJO had other guys around him, and didn't always have to take the shot. Matt's pretty much been the guy, for better or worse. Lately, better.
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It's easy for those to label Carlino a chucker because of two reasons:
1. He is below average at driving the rim while DJO was extremely effective.
2. He takes a fair amount of shot clock expiring shots, where they are by definition 'chucks'.
He's not a chucker though.
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Apples and oranges. DJO was a great college player but I think he might have struggled being the main guy. Matt has being the guy in his DNA and that is what makes him a very good college player. If I were coach he really would be a chucker and being shooting more often.
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I have no problem with the amount of shots Carlino takes. Better him than someone who has no chance of making it. IMO, the offense bogs down when he runs the point. Particularly against Georgetown, when Carlino just dribbled around and then forced something it rarely worked. If you need scoring in a hurry, have Derrick at the point, have Carlino and Duane run cross and come off screens on opposite sides. One of them is open. Catch, shoot.
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I have been saying all year that Carlino reminds me of Anthony Pieper...and not just because of their skin color. Shooting ability, scoring ability, intensity. Pieper had better teams; so played a lesser role in terms of scoring than Carlino of late. Senior YR #'s are very comparable. Love that site btw.
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I have no problem with the amount of shots Carlino takes. Better him than someone who has no chance of making it. IMO, the offense bogs down when he runs the point. Particularly against Georgetown, when Carlino just dribbled around and then forced something it rarely worked. If you need scoring in a hurry, have Derrick at the point, have Carlino and Duane run cross and come off screens on opposite sides. One of them is open. Catch, shoot.
I think that's how Duane hit his 3 to tie at the end of the gtown game
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Apples and oranges. DJO was a great college player but I think he might have struggled being the main guy. Matt has being the guy in his DNA and that is what makes him a very good college player. If I were coach he really would be a chucker and being shooting more often.
Something to that. Run him off multiple screens, let him catch and shoot. If the other team adjusts to take away the catch and shoot, somebody is out of position.
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Apples and oranges. DJO was a great college player but I think he might have struggled being the main guy. Matt has being the guy in his DNA and that is what makes him a very good college player. If I were coach he really would be a chucker and being shooting more often.
Agreed. I think most of us went into DJO and Jae's senior season thinking DJO might be the guy. And while he obviously had a great season, Jae stepped up and became our #1 threat.
Frankly, I think that was one of our problems last season. Jamil and Davante had the talent to become the guy, but you just didn't see them demanding the ball in crunch time.
Matt has it, Vander had it, Jae had it. Other very good players didn't.
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Agreed. I think most of us went into DJO and Jae's senior season thinking DJO might be the guy. And while he obviously had a great season, Jae stepped up and became our #1 threat.
Frankly, I think that was one of our problems last season. Jamil and Davante had the talent to become the guy, but you just didn't see them demanding the ball in crunch time.
Matt has it, Vander had it, Jae had it. Other very good players didn't.
DJO had it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOHX0o_wDSM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOHX0o_wDSM)
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I enjoyed watching the DJO Jae team their senior season. Everyone played in such an unselfish way . DJO scored when needed but I never saw him force it. He also was a very good defensive player with strength . He also had the ability to use both hands not just on layups. Was a great college player.
Carlino is a chucker. When he gets hit he looks good. He reminds me more of Drew Neitzel from Michigan State.
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TW
Your definition of a chucker and mine are vastly different. Matt forces shots when trying to make things happen but overall not a chucker in my view. Plus 2-3 of shots a game are shot clock buzzer beaters and forced to take the shot.
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DJO still one of my favorite MU players. Had the most defined chin I have ever seen.
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I enjoyed watching the DJO Jae team their senior season. Everyone played in such an unselfish way . DJO scored when needed but I never saw him force it. He also was a very good defensive player with strength . He also had the ability to use both hands not just on layups. Was a great college player.
Carlino is a chucker. When he gets hit he looks good. He reminds me more of Drew Neitzel from Michigan State.
You followed MU before JJJ committed?
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I enjoyed watching the DJO Jae team their senior season. Everyone played in such an unselfish way . DJO scored when needed but I never saw him force it. He also was a very good defensive player with strength . He also had the ability to use both hands not just on layups. Was a great college player.
Carlino is a chucker. When he gets hit he looks good. He reminds me more of Drew Neitzel from Michigan State.
You never saw DJO force a shot?
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DJO had it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOHX0o_wDSM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOHX0o_wDSM)
Not saying DJO couldn't ever hit big shots - he obviously could and did. But he never became MU's clear #1 go-to option. His junior year, it was Jimmy; his senior year, it was Jae.
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Not saying DJO couldn't ever hit big shots - he obviously could and did. But he never became MU's clear #1 go-to option. His junior year, it was Jimmy; his senior year, it was Jae.
Fair enough but I considered DJO and Jae to be 1a and 1b on that team.
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Not saying DJO couldn't ever hit big shots - he obviously could and did. But he never became MU's clear #1 go-to option. His junior year, it was Jimmy; his senior year, it was Jae.
DJO was the leading scorer both of those years though. His JR year he was the leading scorer against Syracuse and hit the big shot to put MU in the Sweet 16. Jimmy was 4-11, 10 points and had more of an impact on D in the NCAA than on O. As a SR he and Jae each had 17 against Murray St. To say DJO wasn't the clear #1 option is only recognizing how good Jimmy and Jae were those years. I viewed DJO as Co-#1 option first with Jimmy, then with Jae.
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You never saw DJO force a shot?
They usually edit misses out of highlight videos.
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DJO was the leading scorer both of those years though. His JR year he was the leading scorer against Syracuse and hit the big shot to put MU in the Sweet 16. Jimmy was 4-11, 10 points and had more of an impact on D in the NCAA than on O. As a SR he and Jae each had 17 against Murray St. To say DJO wasn't the clear #1 option is only recognizing how good Jimmy and Jae were those years. I viewed DJO as Co-#1 option first with Jimmy, then with Jae.
Its crazy how underrated he really was outside (and sometimes even within) the Maraquette community. He did so much for MU those two seasons, especially for his size. He even got drafted as an undersized 2, which rarely happens. Would love to have a player like DJO right now.
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Carlino is absolutely a chucker. And the other thing about it is he is, at times, so anxious to launch another shot that he gets himself into terrible position leading to horrendous turnovers. I remember DJO having some cold spells, but I don't remember the bone headed decision making that we've seen out of Carlino.
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Well, then, thank goodness for chuckers.
DJO's supporting cast >>>>>> Carlino's
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Well, then, thank goodness for chuckers.
DJO's supporting cast >>>>>> Carlino's
how about a side by side comparison of their HS recruiting rankings? That's the only way to know for sure.
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Carlino is absolutely a chucker. And the other thing about it is he is, at times, so anxious to launch another shot that he gets himself into terrible position leading to horrendous turnovers. I remember DJO having some cold spells, but I don't remember the bone headed decision making that we've seen out of Carlino.
Since Carlino shoots less often than DJO did, and at a higher accuracy (at least from deep), would you call DJO a chucker?
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I hope he keeps chucking. Who else has been scoring with any consistency? No one. Who has Carlino stopped from scoring consistently? No one.
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Since Carlino shoots less often than DJO did, and at a higher accuracy (at least from deep), would you call DJO a chucker?
True, but Carlino's CSFG% is much lower.
(That's "Chucked Shot Field Goal Percentage" for you non-analytics people)
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DJO rarely took a bad shot. Carlino takes a lot of bad shots.
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Ironically I had just done the weekly Value Add run right before reading this and saw Carlino had popped up to 94th in the national rankings. I looked back and DJO was 91st his senior year (when Crowder was 2nd to only Anthony Davis). With Carlino jumping up about 100 spots on this incredible 4-game Novak impersonation (19 of 33 on treys and 18 of 19 on free throws are actually higher percentages than Novak's career numbers on both LOL), he certainly looks on pace to finish as the more valuable player to me.
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And some on here think a 'chucker' is defined as frequency of shots, not shot selection.
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DJO rarely took a bad shot. Carlino takes a lot of bad shots.
Carlino's 3-pt% this season: 43.9%
DJO's 3-pt% his senior year: 38.5%
Carlino's overall fg% this season: 41.5%
DJO's overall fg% his senior year: 44.7%
So Carlino shoots about 5% better from beyond the arc, and DJO shot about 3% better overall. If one is a chucker, both are chuckers.
IMHO, they're both great shooters who've done an excellent job of doing what is asked of them.
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True, but Carlino's CSFG% is much lower. (That's "Chucked Shot Field Goal Percentage" for you non-analytics people)
LOL. excellent new stat even I had not been tracking!
i will say though with the worst offense in the Big East sometimes a chuck from Carlino has been a better chance than a pass to someone else. A chuck from DJO meant he had not given it to an All-American in Crowder, or Jamil or Blue when they really started to get to the basket, or Davante when he was scoring at will.
I will have to defend Carlino - KEEP CHUCKING WHEN YOU NEED TO!!!!!
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Carlino's 3-pt% this season: 43.9%
DJO's 3-pt% his senior year: 38.5%
Carlino's overall fg% this season: 41.5%
DJO's overall fg% his senior year: 44.7%
So Carlino shoots about 5% better from beyond the arc, and DJO shot about 3% better overall. If one is a chucker, both are chuckers.
IMHO, they're both great shooters who've done an excellent job of doing what is asked of them.
No I thnk this proves that Carlino is more of one. He can shoot the 3 ball really well but that is what he relies on. Chucking up shots. HIs 2 pt % is horrid as he is very inconsistent mid range.
DJO go score mid range and get to the rim all the time. Creating better efficiency while still shooting the 3 solidly.
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DJO rarely took a bad shot. Carlino takes a lot of bad shots.
Carlino MUST take a few bad shots every game because the shot clock has run down or the offense has produced nothing better. At least he steps up and takes them.
Keep chucking Matt.
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No I thnk this proves that Carlino is more of one. He can shoot the 3 ball really well but that is what he relies on. Chucking up shots. HIs 2 pt % is horrid as he is very inconsistent mid range.
DJO go score mid range and get to the rim all the time. Creating better efficiency while still shooting the 3 solidly.
I guess we have different definitions of the word "chucking". When the guy hits almost 44% of his 3's I don't care what his overall fg percent is he isn't chucking.
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I guess we have different definitions of the word "chucking". When the guy hits almost 44% of his 3's I don't care what his overall fg percent is he isn't chucking.
Yep. If you can hit that 3-pt%, it'd be stupid to take many 2s. He'd have to hit 66% of his two-pointers to get as much per shot as he does from 3. Not likely for a guard.
Carlino: the anti-chucker.
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Chuck, Matt, chuck!
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DJO rarely took a bad shot. Carlino takes a lot of bad shots.
That right there is called "selective memory."
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The only reason were not 0-7 in conference with a ton of close losses is because of that "chucker". Chuck up more shots please.
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The only reason were not 0-7 in conference with a ton of close losses is because of that "chucker". Chuck up more shots please.
I don't think we'd have many close losses without Carlino. This season would be ugly without him.
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I don't think we'd have many close losses without Carlino. This season would be ugly without him.
Wojo really made a good move in grabbing him for this season to have Marquette remain competitive.
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You never saw DJO force a shot?
DJO was a very team oriented player. I felt he played within the flow of the game. He was assertive when he needed to be. A pleasure to watch.
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I don't think we'd have many close losses without Carlino. This season would be ugly without him.
Might even be an understatement. Without Carlino this season is REALLY ugly.
DJO also forced some shots, and if I recall correctly, also turned the ball over at a fairly high rate, albeit he pushed tempo and forced a ton of pressure on a defense - so most coaches can live with the tradeoff of some turnovers for more fast break points.
As has been pointed out - if DJO took a shot, he essentially was taking one "away" from guys like Crowder, Jamil, Davante, Vander. If Carlino takes a shot, he's basically taking away a look from Duane and Luke. Don't think anyone would dispute they'd rather see Carlino shoot than any of Derrick, Juan, Steve, JJJ - yet Duane and Luke aren't nearly on the level of any of Jae, Jamil, Davante, Vander (yet).
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Might even be an understatement. Without Carlino this season is REALLY ugly.
DJO also forced some shots, and if I recall correctly, also turned the ball over at a fairly high rate, albeit he pushed tempo and forced a ton of pressure on a defense - so most coaches can live with the tradeoff of some turnovers for more fast break points.
As has been pointed out - if DJO took a shot, he essentially was taking one "away" from guys like Crowder, Jamil, Davante, Vander. If Carlino takes a shot, he's basically taking away a look from Duane and Luke. Don't think anyone would dispute they'd rather see Carlino shoot than any of Derrick, Juan, Steve, JJJ - yet Duane and Luke aren't nearly on the level of any of Jae, Jamil, Davante, Vander (yet).
Agree with all of the above.
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You guys are funny. Texas Western already explained to us how much better we would be if Carlino was not here and how Wojo lost trust in his players by bringing him in. Team chemistry would be so much better, nobody would have transferred, and Burton and JJJ would easily have picked up the scoring void left by not having Carlino. I didn't really believe this at first until I realized TW has info we don't. So any time you see Carlino take over a game for us, understand the team would be much better off without him. Selfish, selfish Wojo thinking of only himself and not how to make the team better.