MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Benny B on January 22, 2015, 08:55:42 AM
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An idiot idea posed by an idiot ESPN guy; but it did get me thinking... Hypothetically speaking, assume for a moment the NFL decides to bring the smack down on NE and vacates their Super Bowl appearance (i.e. the conference championship result still holds, they just don't get to play in the Super Bowl). You still have to have a Super Bowl, right? So how do you decide who plays against Seattle?
1. Do the Colts? Even though they have essentially admitted that the game's result would have been similar had the balls been inflated to spec? Not to mention again, the important distinction here is that the Patriots aren't forfeiting their conference championship win... they still won that game. NE's Super Bowl appearance is simply being vacated. Indy lost last weekend, just like the Packers. Just like Dallas and Denver did the week prior.
2. Do the Packers? If you're pitting the best two teams in the Super Bowl, how about rematching the two teams who played a nail-biter last weekend at a neutral site? But do you really want the Super Bowl to be a re-re-match with a team that has already lost to Seattle twice this year?
3. Cancel the Pro Bowl, and instead face off the conference championship losers this weekend to determine who goes to the Super Bowl - and watch the ratings (i.e. $$$) soar.
4. Draw lots from the remaining playoff teams?
5. Take the team with the best overall record (applying usual tie-breakers)?
6. Have the other ten playoff teams play in a one-day, single elimination tournament according to college playoff OT rules (since the most any team would play would be 4 OT periods, that isn't likely to be much more than a 60 minute game). A total of 9 OT periods total is like what... 4-5 hours? Think about if we could condense the Sweet 16, Elite 8 and National Semi-Final into one 5-hour television event. Think of all of the beer and chicken wings we could consume.
Yes, I get the fact that in no universe would the NFL ban the Patriots from the Super Bowl. Humor me in Fantasticalliliciousland here for a moment. How would you pick Seattle's opponent?
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Leading up to Wrestlemania IV, the Million Dollar Man paid referee Earl Hebner's twin brother to throw a Saturday Night's Main Event Championship Match between Andre the Giant and Hulk Hogan. Andre then sold the belt to the Million Dollar Man, a clear violation of WWF rules.
League Commissioner Jack Tunney then decided the only correct course of action would be to make Wrestlemania IV a tournament, granting both the Million Dollar Man and Hogan a first-round bye.
I don't follow the NFL, but I don't see why this wouldn't apply.
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You do understand that wrestling isn't for real?
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You do understand that wrestling isn't for real?
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1403169/it-s-still-real-to-me-damnit-o.gif)
It's still real to me damnit.
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For those that say it does not matter because the game was one-sided, now it appears they MIGHT have done the same thing in the very close Ravens game.
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Engineers say corking a bat does not really work. So, if a player is busted with one (remember Sosa in 2003) should we just look past it? How about spit balls? Lots of evidence many of those are not more effective. Shall we ignore those violations too?
While we are at it, let's put Barry bonds in the Hall Of Fame. He hit 762 HRs. Surely he could have done 600 without 'roids. That good enough for the Hall.
Lance Armstrong won seven consecutive Tour de France. Surely he would have won 2 or 3 without drugs. How about we only strip him of 4 or 5 victories, not all 7.
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It's about the intention to cheat, not if it actually worked. The Pats intended to cheat because they thought this violation of the rules would give them an unfair advantage. That is what should be punished. And it should be punished harshly.
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Did Ravens tip off Colts about Patriots deflating balls?
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/did-ravens-tip-off-colts-about-patriots-deflating-balls--021046443.html
The latest twist in deflate-gate might give you a hint that the rest of the NFL isn't too fond of the New England Patriots.
According to Jay Glazer of Fox Sports, the Indianapolis Colts were tipped off by the Baltimore Ravens before the AFC championship game about the Patriots possibly altering the air pressure in their footballs. The Ravens lost to the Patriots in a divisional playoff game the week before.
Two things stand out about that report: If true, the Ravens were obviously pretty angry to tip off the Patriots' next opponent, and this would mean it's more than a one-game situation in New England. Unless it's a crazy coincidence that the Ravens assumed the Patriots' game balls were under-inflated when they weren't, told the Colts their hunch, and the championship game happened to be the game in which 11 of the 12 Patriots' game balls were flatter than usual. Of the Patriots' 12 game balls, 11 each had two pounds per square inch less than NFL rules stipulate, as ESPN reported Tuesday.
Glazer's story said the officials were planning to inspect the balls at halftime, based on the Ravens' tip. It was reported by other outlets that the Colts noticed the issue when linebacker D'Qwell Jackson caught an interception in the second quarter. It could be both.
There was another story, from ESPN's Adam Schefter, that the Colts thought the Patriots had also under-inflated footballs during a regular-season meeting on Nov. 16. According to Schefter, Colts safety Mike Adams had two interceptions, and gave both balls to the Colts' equipment manager to save. Both times, sources told Schefter, there were concerns the balls were under-inflated.
All three things could be independently true. The Colts could have noticed the issue on Nov. 16. The Ravens could have noticed it during their playoff loss and told the Colts. And Jackson could have noticed it too on Sunday, even before the officials got a chance to inspect the balls at halftime (that part of the story makes it even stranger that the officials didn't do anything in the first half, constantly handling the footballs that were reportedly 16 percent or so flatter than league rules allow).
And if all the reports are accurate, and the Ravens noticed it, and the Colts noticed it in two separate games, who else in the NFL noticed it during the season?
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Funny thing is that before I hit "Post," #6 was titled: "The Wrestlemania IV Option"
You do understand that wrestling isn't for real?
http://www.youtube.com/e/N8x1YePAJvs
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Combine the Pro Bowl teams into one and let them play Seattle!
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Combine the Pro Bowl teams into one and let them play Seattle!
Does the Pro-Bowl combination team get to tackle?
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Colts. They played like crap on Sunday, but they were still the best team in the AFC not named the Patriots.
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No matter what happens I will still be cheering for the Patriots on Sunday, because screw Pete Carroll and Marshawn Lynch. I'm not even a packer fan but I hate seeing Seattle win.
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...and if Boston wins the bid for the Olympics you can bet all the soccer balls, volley balls, water polo balls, tennis balls and basketballs will be deflated too.
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Seahawks O vs Seahawks D. Score it like a collegiate spring game.
Who isn't looking forward to a week of Richard Sherman talking trash about his own receiving corps and daring Russell Wilson to throw it to his side?
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No matter what happens I will still be cheering for the Patriots on Sunday, because screw Pete Carroll and Marshawn Lynch. I'm not even a packer fan but I hate seeing Seattle win.
Whats with the hate towards Carroll and Lynch?
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Well now it looks like Belichick is throwing Brady under the bus after he denied knowing anything about the process of how balls are handled in games.
If this is all on Brady, should Goodell suspend him for the Super Bowl?
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Well now it looks like Belichick is throwing Brady under the bus after he denied knowing anything about the process of how balls are handled in games.
If this is all on Brady, should Goodell suspend him for the Super Bowl?
And now....wait for it....Tommy Brady is denying any wrong doing as well. Apparently, all 12 of those footballs magically and mysteriously deflated. ::) Belicheat and Brady: What a pair of arrogant a**holes.
Of course, the NFL would love to protect the sainted Robert Kraft and make this embarrassment go away. Much like Spygate, I'm sure Deflategate will be downplayed too.
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So, Brady likes his balls deflated?
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Brady held a presser ... highlights
Brady at his presser ... "I follow the rules, I have no knowledge of anything" Same as Belichick. Remember, Tom, covering up/lying is often worse than the crime.
Brady also says he did not notice the first half balls were under-inflated. He was too busy calling plays and executing the offense.
Brady also says he did not notice the start of the second half was delayed as they kicked out the under-inflated balls and brought in new (properly inflated) balls. Asked if he wondered why he was standing in the huddle for several minutes while the balls were being replaced, he said he did "not notice." He was focused on the next set of plays and series.
Question to Brady ... ask a basketball player if he would notice a rim is six inches off, he notices. Ask a pitcher if a ball has an extra scuff on it, he notices. Yet you did not notice a 20% variation in ball inflation from the pre-game to half-time?
Contradicting this was Brady saying he likes the ball at 12.5 pounds, the lowest pressure allowed. How can he be so precise about 12.5 pounds and then not notice the huge variation during the game?
This I did not know ... several years ago Brady was instrumental in getting the league to change the rule to allow teams to pick their own balls. In other words, he help create the rules that allowed this to happen!
I think he just admitted how this happened ... he praised the "ball boys" (assistant equipment managers) because they "know how I like the balls. They know what to do to get the balls the way I like them." Yep Tom, you did not have to say anything, they know what to do.
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Following the Presser ... Mark Brunell called Brady a liar. Jerome Bettis agreed. Bill Plascke and Woody Paige called Brady and Belichick "con artists."
Try Wingo summed it up by saying ... "Richard Nixon did not need to bug the Watergate hotel to win the 1972 election. But that act end him. Tom Brady did not under-inflated balls to beat the Colts. But digging in and admitting nothing is going to make this a really big deal."
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Brady held a presser ... highlights
Brady at his presser ... "I follow the rules, I have no knowledge of anything" Same as Belichick. Remember, Tom, covering up/lying is often worse than the crime.
Brady also says he did not notice the first half balls were under-inflated. He was too busy calling plays and executing the offense.
Brady also says he did not notice the start of the second half was delayed as they kicked out the under-inflated balls and brought in new (properly inflated) balls. Asked if he wondered why he was standing in the huddle for several minutes while the balls were being replaced, he said he did "not notice." He was focused on the next set of plays and series.
Question to Brady ... ask a basketball player if he would notice a rim is six inches off, he notices. Ask a pitcher if a ball has an extra scuff on it, he notices. Yet you did not notice a 20% variation in ball inflation from the pre-game to half-time?
Contradicting this was Brady saying he likes the ball at 12.5 pounds, the lowest pressure allowed. How can he be so precise about 12.5 pounds and then not notice the huge variation during the game?
This I did not know ... several years ago Brady was instrumental in getting the league to change the rule to allow teams to pick their own balls. In other words, he help create the rules that allowed this to happen!
I think he just admitted how this happened ... he praised the "ball boys" (assistant equipment managers) because they "know how I like the balls. They know what to do to get the balls the way I like them." Yep Tom, you did not have to say anything, they know what to do.
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Following the Presser ... Mark Brunell called Brady a liar. Jerome Bettis agreed. Bill Plascke and Woody Paige called Brady and Belichick "con artists."
Try Wingo summed it up by saying ... "Richard Nixon did not need to bug the Watergate hotel to win the 1972 election. But that act end him. Tom Brady did not under-inflated balls to beat the Colts. But digging in and admitting nothing is going to make this a really big deal."
Those guys are 100% correct. Belicheat and Brady are both scumbag liars. Hope the media continues to hound those two a**holes.
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This is still nothing but two weeks to kill before the super bowl circle jerking. I
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Following the Presser ... Mark Brunell called Brady a liar. Jerome Bettis agreed. Bill Plascke and Woody Paige called Brady and Belichick "con artists."
I found Brunell's immediate reaction in this video (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12205404) interesting. I'm talking about his immediate reaction, before he began explaining anything, and the look he gave the guy on the other side of the table when he handed Bettis the ball (at 00:54). Perhaps he was acting. But I thought it was a pretty telling reaction.
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This is still nothing but two weeks to kill before the super bowl circle jerking. I
Tower, I think you're missing the larger point. This is quickly becoming more than just pre-Superbowl BS
The crime is immaterial. The cover-up is the issue. It seems like all the media and "experts" believe they intentional broke the rules and are trying to lie their way through it.
If they are not careful they are both (Brady and Belichick) going to get suspended. Possibly for the Superbowl or for a long time next season.
Again I'm not saying this is going to happen. Rather they are at risk of this happening because of their action and denials.
As noted above, why was Richard Nixon forced to resign? He was going to win the 1972 election whether he bugged the Watergate hotel or not. So why get all worked up about it?
It was the lies, denials and coverup that was the problem. Same here with the Patriots (at least that is what the Media and "experts" are leading everyone to believe).
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There is no way on this planet that either Belichick or Brady are going to be suspended for the super bowl. You are assuming they are lying and covering up. Spygate was legit. This still feels like a witch hunt in search of an issue.
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There is no way on this planet that either Belichick or Brady are going to be suspended for the super bowl. You are assuming they are lying and covering up. Spygate was legit. This still feels like a witch hunt in search of an issue.
Witch hunt? Hardly. The Patriots manipulated those balls in an attempt to gain an advantage. They got caught...and now can't lie fast enough.
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Aikman on Deflategate: Brady knew and Belichick should burn
http://nypost.com/2015/01/22/aikman-on-deflategate-brady-knew-and-belichick-should-burn/
Troy Aikman said he believes Tom Brady spearheaded Deflategate and Bill Belichick should pay dearly for it.
The Cowboys great and Fox analyst held nothing back in a Dallas radio interview Thursday when discussing the latest controversy to envelop the Patriots and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell.
“It’s obvious that Tom Brady had something to do with this,” Aikman told the station, according to the Dallas Morning News.
“I know going back to when I played, they’ve loosened up the rules in terms of what each team is able to do with the footballs coming into the game. Used to, the home team provided all the balls. And now, each team brings their footballs the way they like them and break ‘em in. Used to you couldn’t break them in. So for the balls to be deflated, that doesn’t happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen, I can assure you of that. Now the question becomes did Bill Belichick know about it.”
Belichick denied just that when he spoke to the press after Aikman’s comments were made. Belichick contended he had no clue how the 12 balls were deflated below league standards in the Patriots’ 45-7 rout of the Colts in the AFC Championship Game.
However, the rule change Aikman discussed was actually advocated by Brady and Peyton Manning in 2006 when the star quarterbacks successfully lobbied the league. Brady noted at the time, in an interview with the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, how each quarterback likes the football “a little bit different.”
Aikman sees the controversy as another black eye not only for the Patriots, but for Goodell. Aikman said Goodell’s “ignorance is no excuse” policy that he used to bury the Saints during Bountygate in 2012 will come back to hurt him again, just as it did when he bungled Ray Rice’s domestic violence case – where Goodell used his own ignorance as an excuse for originally handing out a two-game punishment to the Ravens running back.
“Sean Payton did not cheat,” Aikman said of the Saints coach who was suspended a full year for Bountygate.
“There was nothing that Sean Payton and the Saints did that was illegal. And they did not give themselves a competitive edge. I maintain, regardless of whatever was said in the locker room, and in that locker room, is not anything different than what’s been said in any other locker room around the league. There’s no proof on the field of what took place that guys were targeting players. You can always pull out a play here and there. They were one of the least penalized teams for unsportsmanlike conduct. So there was no evidence that anything translated to the field that they were trying to hurt players. And they did not give themselves a competitive advantage.
“Now twice, under Bill Belichick and possibly a third time, they’ve cheated and given themselves an advantage. To me, the punishment for the Patriots and/or Bill Belichick has to be more severe than what the punishment was for the New Orleans Saints.”
Where Aikman unfavorably compared the Patriots’ alleged antics to Bountygate, Ravens defensive lineman Chris Canty’s hot take likened ball-tampering to PEDs.
“The Patriots are habitual line-steppers,” Canty said in an appearance on NBCSN on Wednesday. “If the allegations are true, then you are talking about attacking the integrity of our game and I have an issue with that.”
“What I’m going to say about the deflating of the balls, to me there is no difference than performance-enhancing drugs. You are cheating at that point. You are getting a competitive advantage outside of the rulebook and there has to be some sort of consequences for that.”
But will Goodell, a noted ally of Patriots owner Robert Kraft, punish the team severely?
“There’s a great deal of pressure on Roger Goodell, in light of everything that’s happened this year, and the way that he’s handled all of these situations, and hasn’t handled them particularly well by the way, and on this particular case, because there’s a lot of coaches and a lot of people that look upon the Patriots as a team that’s been favored in some of the things that have happened — I thought the punishment he got for Spygate was a slap on the wrist, was next to nothing — so we’ll see,” Aikman said.
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Brady pushed for rule to let visiting team provide own footballs
Posted by Michael David Smith on January 22, 2015, 11:37 AM EST
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/22/brady-pushed-for-rule-to-let-visiting-team-provide-own-footballs/
Patriots quarterback Tom Brady has long wanted control over the footballs he throws, to the point where he was the driving force behind a rules change that allowed visiting teams to provide their own footballs, rather than having both teams use footballs provided by the home team.
In 2006, Brady and Peyton Manning successfully lobbied the league to let every team provide its own footballs to use on offense. Prior to that, it was always the home team that supplied the footballs, which meant that road team quarterbacks didn’t get to try the footballs out until pregame warmups.
Brady said at the time that he appreciated the opportunity to address the league’s Competition Committee and get a rule change that he felt would be advantageous to himself and other quarterbacks.
“The thing is, every quarterback likes it a little bit different,” Brady told the Sun-Sentinel at the time. “Some like them blown up a little bit more, some like them a little more thin, some like them a little more new, some like them really broken in.”
Brady’s comments come into new focus this week as the NFL investigates whether the Patriots deflated footballs in the AFC Championship Game, in violation of NFL rules. After Patriots coach Bill Belichick said today that he knows nothing about how balls are prepared prior to games, increased attention has turned to whether Brady was behind deflating the footballs.
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What surprises me about this whole ordeal are two things:
1. Belichick denies all involvement and not knowing anything. This is a man who is a control freak of a head coach. Wouldn't someone like BB, had he ACTUALLY not known about this at all, upon finding out about members of his staff or team doctoring balls against the rules, wouldn't he want to find out who had done this? Wouldn't he want to get to the bottom of it so he knows who on his staff/team are messing around against the rules, something that his particular team is heavily scrutinized for considering their past? For him to say he had ABSOLUTELY no idea yesterday tells me either 1) he's lying or 2) he doesn't care one bit that his team cheated and he isn't going to put forth any effort trying to find out.
2. This has already been pointed out by several folks. Brady has been on record of being very particular about the PSI of his footballs at 12.5. 11/12 were deflated by 20%. To say that he did not notice is completely ridiculous.
Add to the fact that none of the Colts balls were deflated AND 1 out of the 12 Patriots balls was completely normal. This removes any implications that weather could have played in this.
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If they are not careful they are both (Brady and Belichick) going to get suspended. Possibly for the Superbowl or for a long time next season.
The NFL is not going to mess with the Super Bowl. Any suspensions or discipline will take place after the Super Bowl, under the pretext that there wasn't enough time to complete the investigation before the Super Bowl. If the Patriots next Sunday, I think there is a greater likelihood that the NFL will not do anything to them, because they're not going to want to taint their champion. If this were David Stern's NBA, they would get officials who would make sure Seattle got evey call in the Super Bowl.
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The NFL is not going to mess with the Super Bowl. Any suspensions or discipline will take place after the Super Bowl, under the pretext that there wasn't enough time to complete the investigation before the Super Bowl. If the Patriots next Sunday, I think there is a greater likelihood that the NFL will not do anything to them, because they're not going to want to taint their champion. If this were David Stern's NBA, they would get officials who would make sure Seattle got evey call in the Super Bowl.
Agreed. No way the NFL wants to get to the bottom of this before Super Sunday. That is already evident considering the NFL's "investigation" has not included talking to Tom Brady yet.
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RANT TIME...and this will stray off topic.
Let's face it, this really is a minor issue, but it is indicative of the way the NFL now operates under Goodell. When something bad happens, shrug your shoulders and say you had no clue what was happening. (Because you are either lying or intentionally not trying to find the truth.) It is better to be seem incompetent rather than being underhanded. From the concussion issue, to the Ray Rice issue, to the Redskins name, to now this. Just babble a few words, send out an "investigative report" of some sort, put together some cheesy commercials to show that you really care, and then move on. People will watch anyway right?
And this has become how society acts. Whether it is Congress, the NFL, the banking industry in 2008, etc. etc. etc., just do what is minimally acceptable to keep doing business the way you always have. Don't reach for a higher standard. Don't aspire to be a moral beacon of any sort. As long as the money rolls in and you keep your positions of power, there really is no need to change right?
I have said this for awhile, but people don't resent the rich and powerful because they are rich and powerful. They resent them because their wealth and power allows them to operate under different rules. I had a chance to meet S.C. Johnson, Jr. in the late 1990s. He was running SC Johnson and Sons at the time, and was worth billions, but you could not tell it. The way he talked to people was very down to earth. He gave away a sh*t ton of money, but still talked about how he felt that he was responsible for leaving the earth a better place than when he got here. He was a leader of a chemical company, but was a huge environmentalist - he had the company take CFCs out of their products in the 70s before it was really considered a major issue.
He died in 2004. Last year his son SC Johnson, III was sentenced for repeatedly sexually assaulting his step daughter. He admitted to indecently touching her "15-20 times," beginning at the age of 12. His sentence? 4 months.
I know I am reaching, but this stuff gets so tiring.
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RANT TIME...and this will stray off topic.
Let's face it, this really is a minor issue, but it is indicative of the way the NFL now operates under Goodell. When something bad happens, shrug your shoulders and say you had no clue what was happening. (Because you are either lying or intentionally not trying to find the truth.) It is better to be seem incompetent rather than being underhanded. From the concussion issue, to the Ray Rice issue, to the Redskins name, to now this. Just babble a few words, send out an "investigative report" of some sort, put together some cheesy commercials to show that you really care, and then move on. People will watch anyway right?
And this has become how society acts. Whether it is Congress, the NFL, the banking industry in 2008, etc. etc. etc., just do what is minimally acceptable to keep doing business the way you always have. Don't reach for a higher standard. Don't aspire to be a moral beacon of any sort. As long as the money rolls in and you keep your positions of power, there really is no need to change right?
I have said this for awhile, but people don't resent the rich and powerful because they are rich and powerful. They resent them because their wealth and power allows them to operate under different rules. I had a chance to meet S.C. Johnson, Jr. in the late 1990s. He was running SC Johnson and Sons at the time, and was worth billions, but you could not tell it. The way he talked to people was very down to earth. He gave away a sh*t ton of money, but still talked about how he felt that he was responsible for leaving the earth a better place than when he got here. He was a leader of a chemical company, but was a huge environmentalist - he had the company take CFCs out of their products in the 70s before it was really considered a major issue.
He died in 2004. Last year his son SC Johnson, III was sentenced for repeatedly sexually assaulting his step daughter. He admitted to indecently touching her "15-20 times," beginning at the age of 12. His sentence? 4 months.
I know I am reaching, but this stuff gets so tiring.
Ding ding.
And Sherman put it best. The NFL was going to BAN Marshawn Lynch from playing last Sunday if he wore gold shoes. These shoes did not have little rockets attached to them for him to go faster, or springs in them for him to jump higher. The color of them.
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What surprises me about this whole ordeal are two things:
1. Belichick denies all involvement and not knowing anything. This is a man who is a control freak of a head coach. Wouldn't someone like BB, had he ACTUALLY not known about this at all, upon finding out about members of his staff or team doctoring balls against the rules, wouldn't he want to find out who had done this? Wouldn't he want to get to the bottom of it so he knows who on his staff/team are messing around against the rules, something that his particular team is heavily scrutinized for considering their past? For him to say he had ABSOLUTELY no idea yesterday tells me either 1) he's lying or 2) he doesn't care one bit that his team cheated and he isn't going to put forth any effort trying to find out.
2. This has already been pointed out by several folks. Brady has been on record of being very particular about the PSI of his footballs at 12.5. 11/12 were deflated by 20%. To say that he did not notice is completely ridiculous.
Add to the fact that none of the Colts balls were deflated AND 1 out of the 12 Patriots balls was completely normal. This removes any implications that weather could have played in this.
I think it is unlikely, but potentially believable, that Belichick didn't know. I would think that if someone (whether it be Brady, the equipment manager or someone else) decided they were going to mess with the footballs after inspection, that would not be done with Belichick's knowledge. But, I suppose it could happen. Like you, I think he'd be pretty pissed about it, but he's not really one who shows a lot of emotion to the press.
I'm having a really hard time believing Brady. Even if he hadn't ever expressed a pretty specific preference for balls inflated to the low side, I cannot believe that he didn't notice a difference between the balls in the first half and the second half. I would find him much more credible if he'd admit that he noticed a difference, but didn't know anything about it ("yeah, the balls in the first half were great...I like them a little softer, and then in the second half they were harder...but it obviously didn't affect the way we played, and I have no idea why they were different from one half to the next..."). The guy makes his living throwing a football, he noticed the difference. Frankly, by saying he didn't even notice, he's made me think he's totally full of crap. Everyone knows that these teams work the balls over to get them the way the QB likes them, and there's nothing wrong with that under the rules as long as they pass inspection. For Brady to act like he can't tell the difference simply is not believable.
And I think the weather thing is pretty ridiculous. I've seen reports suggesting that even in extreme cold the balls wouldn't lose two pounds of pressure. Oh, and it was 51 degrees in Boston Sunday, not exactly the type of extreme weather that would wreak havoc with pressure in the footballs.
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I think it is unlikely, but potentially believable, that Belichick didn't know. I would think that if someone (whether it be Brady, the equipment manager or someone else) decided they were going to mess with the footballs after inspection, that would not be done with Belichick's knowledge. But, I suppose it could happen. Like you, I think he'd be pretty pissed about it, but he's not really one who shows a lot of emotion to the press.
I'm having a really hard time believing Brady. Even if he hadn't ever expressed a pretty specific preference for balls inflated to the low side, I cannot believe that he didn't notice a difference between the balls in the first half and the second half. I would find him much more credible if he'd admit that he noticed a difference, but didn't know anything about it ("yeah, the balls in the first half were great...I like them a little softer, and then in the second half they were harder...but it obviously didn't affect the way we played, and I have no idea why they were different from one half to the next..."). The guy makes his living throwing a football, he noticed the difference. Frankly, by saying he didn't even notice, he's made me think he's totally full of crap. Everyone knows that these teams work the balls over to get them the way the QB likes them, and there's nothing wrong with that under the rules as long as they pass inspection. For Brady to act like he can't tell the difference simply is not believable.
And I think the weather thing is pretty ridiculous. I've seen reports suggesting that even in extreme cold the balls wouldn't lose two pounds of pressure. Oh, and it was 51 degrees in Boston Sunday, not exactly the type of extreme weather that would wreak havoc with pressure in the footballs.
Agreed, good points.
I also do believe that BB may not have had any knowledge of it at all. But again, why would he not want to get down to the bottom of it? It is his team and he is well known to be a complete control freak.
And yes, the weather point is ridiculous that I have seen people bring up. This issue has never come up in Lambeau or other places when the cold has gotten real bad.
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RANT TIME...and this will stray off topic.
Let's face it, this really is a minor issue, but it is indicative of the way the NFL now operates under Goodell. When something bad happens, shrug your shoulders and say you had no clue what was happening. (Because you are either lying or intentionally not trying to find the truth.) It is better to be seem incompetent rather than being underhanded. From the concussion issue, to the Ray Rice issue, to the Redskins name, to now this. Just babble a few words, send out an "investigative report" of some sort, put together some cheesy commercials to show that you really care, and then move on. People will watch anyway right?
And this has become how society acts. Whether it is Congress, the NFL, the banking industry in 2008, etc. etc. etc., just do what is minimally acceptable to keep doing business the way you always have. Don't reach for a higher standard. Don't aspire to be a moral beacon of any sort. As long as the money rolls in and you keep your positions of power, there really is no need to change right?
I have said this for awhile, but people don't resent the rich and powerful because they are rich and powerful. They resent them because their wealth and power allows them to operate under different rules. I had a chance to meet S.C. Johnson, Jr. in the late 1990s. He was running SC Johnson and Sons at the time, and was worth billions, but you could not tell it. The way he talked to people was very down to earth. He gave away a sh*t ton of money, but still talked about how he felt that he was responsible for leaving the earth a better place than when he got here. He was a leader of a chemical company, but was a huge environmentalist - he had the company take CFCs out of their products in the 70s before it was really considered a major issue.
He died in 2004. Last year his son SC Johnson, III was sentenced for repeatedly sexually assaulting his step daughter. He admitted to indecently touching her "15-20 times," beginning at the age of 12. His sentence? 4 months.
I know I am reaching, but this stuff gets so tiring.
Pathological lying is now a daily fact of life. Can see it all around us.
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Belichick and Brady's responses reminded me of busted baseball players stating that they "never knowingly" took PEDs.
Oversimplified dramatization...
Brady and Belichick conspicuously discuss how Tom likes the game footballs to be filled less than the league allows, but what can ya do? It's not like the assistant equipment manager could deflate them after the ref's inspection. Nearby assistant coach nods at the assistant equipment manager who takes the necessary actions to ensure that the balls are deflated to the star QB's liking. As you can see, Brady and Belichick had no knowledge of what was going on and it was simply a rogue assistant taking matters into his own hands.
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NFL is a creator of TV content. Everything is view through the prism of TV ratings. A little controversy will hype the interest. After the fact the Pats will get their wrist slapped. Goodell has zero creativity nor original content. He got where he got by being a typical corporate a... kisser. Lifetime NFL guy who is never going to rock the boat.
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Hmmm...the footballs were properly inflated at half and remained properly inflated throughout the remainder of the game. So much for the extreme weather theory (on an unseasonably warm January day). As if the Colts' balls remaining properly inflated hadn't already shot that one down.
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Hmmm...the footballs were properly inflated at half and remained properly inflated throughout the remainder of the game. So much for the extreme weather theory (on an unseasonably warm January day). As if the Colts' balls remaining properly inflated hadn't already shot that one down.
Not much to think about. Belicheat and Brady are lying. They would never admit to anything...especially right before the Super Bowl. Hope the NFL drops the hammer on that organization. But doubtful, because Robert Kraft is a league favorite. Now if this were the Oakland Raiders......
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@NickTimiraos 20h20 hours ago
Could deflated balls explain why the Patriots share of fumbles to plays run is off the charts?
http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932 pic.twitter.com/3Ko2QyE1TU
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8CvSJQCEAApA9r.png)
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RANT TIME...and this will stray off topic.
Let's face it, this really is a minor issue, but it is indicative of the way the NFL now operates under Goodell. When something bad happens, shrug your shoulders and say you had no clue what was happening. (Because you are either lying or intentionally not trying to find the truth.) It is better to be seem incompetent rather than being underhanded. From the concussion issue, to the Ray Rice issue, to the Redskins name, to now this. Just babble a few words, send out an "investigative report" of some sort, put together some cheesy commercials to show that you really care, and then move on. People will watch anyway right?
And this has become how society acts. Whether it is Congress, the NFL, the banking industry in 2008, etc. etc. etc., just do what is minimally acceptable to keep doing business the way you always have. Don't reach for a higher standard. Don't aspire to be a moral beacon of any sort. As long as the money rolls in and you keep your positions of power, there really is no need to change right?
I have said this for awhile, but people don't resent the rich and powerful because they are rich and powerful. They resent them because their wealth and power allows them to operate under different rules. I had a chance to meet S.C. Johnson, Jr. in the late 1990s. He was running SC Johnson and Sons at the time, and was worth billions, but you could not tell it. The way he talked to people was very down to earth. He gave away a sh*t ton of money, but still talked about how he felt that he was responsible for leaving the earth a better place than when he got here. He was a leader of a chemical company, but was a huge environmentalist - he had the company take CFCs out of their products in the 70s before it was really considered a major issue.
He died in 2004. Last year his son SC Johnson, III was sentenced for repeatedly sexually assaulting his step daughter. He admitted to indecently touching her "15-20 times," beginning at the age of 12. His sentence? 4 months.
I know I am reaching, but this stuff gets so tiring.
Your anecdote nonwithstanding there is nothing new about the rich and powerful being able to play by different rules. And for every son not as responsible as his rich and powerful father I'm sure there's one who is a better steward. Governments, churches, businesses, etc., have a long and storied history of going to any lengths possible to maintain their wealth and power. And so it goes...
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RANT TIME...and this will stray off topic.
Let's face it, this really is a minor issue, but it is indicative of the way the NFL now operates under Goodell. When something bad happens, shrug your shoulders and say you had no clue what was happening. (Because you are either lying or intentionally not trying to find the truth.) It is better to be seem incompetent rather than being underhanded. From the concussion issue, to the Ray Rice issue, to the Redskins name, to now this. Just babble a few words, send out an "investigative report" of some sort, put together some cheesy commercials to show that you really care, and then move on. People will watch anyway right?
And this has become how society acts. Whether it is Congress, the NFL, the banking industry in 2008, etc. etc. etc., just do what is minimally acceptable to keep doing business the way you always have. Don't reach for a higher standard. Don't aspire to be a moral beacon of any sort. As long as the money rolls in and you keep your positions of power, there really is no need to change right?
I have said this for awhile, but people don't resent the rich and powerful because they are rich and powerful. They resent them because their wealth and power allows them to operate under different rules. I had a chance to meet S.C. Johnson, Jr. in the late 1990s. He was running SC Johnson and Sons at the time, and was worth billions, but you could not tell it. The way he talked to people was very down to earth. He gave away a sh*t ton of money, but still talked about how he felt that he was responsible for leaving the earth a better place than when he got here. He was a leader of a chemical company, but was a huge environmentalist - he had the company take CFCs out of their products in the 70s before it was really considered a major issue.
He died in 2004. Last year his son SC Johnson, III was sentenced for repeatedly sexually assaulting his step daughter. He admitted to indecently touching her "15-20 times," beginning at the age of 12. His sentence? 4 months.
I know I am reaching, but this stuff gets so tiring.
I agree with all of this.
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Belichick and Brady's responses reminded me of busted baseball players stating that they "never knowingly" took PEDs.
Oversimplified dramatization...
Brady and Belichick conspicuously discuss how Tom likes the game footballs to be filled less than the league allows, but what can ya do? It's not like the assistant equipment manager could deflate them after the ref's inspection. Nearby assistant coach nods at the assistant equipment manager who takes the necessary actions to ensure that the balls are deflated to the star QB's liking. As you can see, Brady and Belichick had no knowledge of what was going on and it was simply a rogue assistant taking matters into his own hands.
Apparently it wasn't the assistant equipment manager but rather a locker room attendant. I was so close!
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12232207/nfl-looking-new-england-patriots-locker-room-attendant-deflategate-investigation (http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12232207/nfl-looking-new-england-patriots-locker-room-attendant-deflategate-investigation)
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He went into a bathroom for 90 seconds. The main problem is that he didn't wash his hands thoroughly.
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He went into a bathroom for 90 seconds. The main problem is that he didn't wash his hands thoroughly.
http://deadspin.com/report-man-probably-took-piss-with-two-bags-of-footb-1681959964
Was just going to add this.
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He went into a bathroom for 90 seconds. The main problem is that he didn't wash his hands thoroughly.
"Excuse me sir, that sign in the bathroom about washing your hands... that's just for the employees, right?"
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Leading up to Wrestlemania IV, the Million Dollar Man paid referee Earl Hebner's twin brother to throw a Saturday Night's Main Event Championship Match between Andre the Giant and Hulk Hogan. Andre then sold the belt to the Million Dollar Man, a clear violation of WWF rules.
League Commissioner Jack Tunney then decided the only correct course of action would be to make Wrestlemania IV a tournament, granting both the Million Dollar Man and Hogan a first-round bye.
I don't follow the NFL, but I don't see why this wouldn't apply.
That was one of the best Wrestlemanias ever, and the only way they could get the belt off Hogan, who had held it for four years. Those were the good old days of wrestling for me.
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Apparently it wasn't the assistant equipment manager but rather a locker room attendant. I was so close!
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12232207/nfl-looking-new-england-patriots-locker-room-attendant-deflategate-investigation (http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12232207/nfl-looking-new-england-patriots-locker-room-attendant-deflategate-investigation)
Hahaha. The Deflatriots have found their fall guy. This poor slob will be hung out to dry. Because I'm sure he took it upon himself to deflate those balls. ::)
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He is going to argue that he was deflating his bladder.
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This will fade away because the NFL wants it to. Goodell and Kraft are buddies. You watch, the Deflatriots will get a slap on the wrist (like a fine) because of a "lack of evidence" and that will be that.
Let me say again...I hate Boston. I hate their teams. I hate their fans.
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Wonder if any of the Patriot cheerleaders ever inflated their game time assets?
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He went into a bathroom for 90 seconds. The main problem is that he didn't wash his hands thoroughly.
Was there a second shooter?
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Was there a second shooter?
Only Mr. Ruby... err, Goodell.
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/deflate-gate-triggers-stat-spat-as-analysts-attempt-to-solve-why-patriots-don-t-fumble-003107565-nfl.html
The patriots fumble A LOT less then every other NFL team, including dome teams
“Whoa. In this case NE is at the top of the list, and the next best team is a distant second. Notice how the second team [Baltimore] through the second to last team [Philadelphia] have rates that are within 1 or 2 plays of each other. NE, however, is better than the next best team by 20 plays per fumble.”
“Can you deny that the Patriots did not change dramatically in fumble rate since the 2006 season?” he asked. “Can you deny that the Pats are significantly better than the rest of the NFL since then?”
Is this deflate-story really a bunch of media hype that is analogous to corked bats in baseball like all my Pats friends tell me? I'm not so sure.
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the chart is page 2
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=46184.msg690438#msg690438
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/deflate-gate-triggers-stat-spat-as-analysts-attempt-to-solve-why-patriots-don-t-fumble-003107565-nfl.html
The patriots fumble A LOT less then every other NFL team, including dome teams.
I'm not really sure what to make of the fumbling data, and there seem to be "experts" on both sides of the issue.
But, because I know that perception equals reality and because I hate the Patriots, I really hope they fumble six or seven times in the Super Bowl. That would add some fuel to the fire.
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Here is the solution:
The team with the worst record is given a choice: lose your first round pick and you get to play in the Superbowl. If that team says no way, then the team with the second worst record is asked to take that deal, and so on down the line.
The best part about this plan is that nobody in the entire country would argue with any of it, and everybody would be thrilled to watch the new game without the least bit of commentary.
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The commissioner, in his annual state of the game presser on Friday, said no one wrote down the pre-game football pressures. So they don't know if the balls started under inflated.
Translated, the investigation is over. Nothing will come of this. The league will probably apologize to the Patriots. In fact, the whitewash will be so complete they will probably give the Patriots extra draft picks to compensate for their "Pain and suffering."
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They should. Tempest in a teapot. Designated meme for this Super Bowl.
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They should. Tempest in a teapot. Designated meme for this Super Bowl.
You're correct it is a bunch of nothing. And if Brady did exactly what Rodgers did the following day and said "I like my balls under-inflated so I had them under-inflated, next question" ... this would have been over in 20 minutes. (Recall the following day that Rodgers said he likes his balls over-inflated and they submit them with too much pressure and most of the time they pass.)
Instead Belichick and Brady went full Sgt. Schultz. That is the issue.
The cover-up is always worse than the crime. The issue here is whether the Patriots are covering this up.
(To put it in a political sense, what difference does it make that Nixon bugged the Watergate hotel, he won by 49 states and would have won anyway. Why didn't we let that issue die after two days? Answer, it was all about the cover-up.)
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(To put it in a political sense, what difference does it make that Nixon bugged the Watergate hotel, he won by 49 states and would have won anyway. Why didn't we let that issue die after two days? Answer, it was all about the cover-up.)
Three reasons "we" didn't let it die - Woodward, Bernstein and Bradlee. If the press chooses to go after power it does usually end up being about the cover up because powerful people and institutions reflexively cover bad stuff up.
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/deflate-gate-triggers-stat-spat-as-analysts-attempt-to-solve-why-patriots-don-t-fumble-003107565-nfl.html
The patriots fumble A LOT less then every other NFL team, including dome teams
“Whoa. In this case NE is at the top of the list, and the next best team is a distant second. Notice how the second team [Baltimore] through the second to last team [Philadelphia] have rates that are within 1 or 2 plays of each other. NE, however, is better than the next best team by 20 plays per fumble.”
“Can you deny that the Patriots did not change dramatically in fumble rate since the 2006 season?” he asked. “Can you deny that the Pats are significantly better than the rest of the NFL since then?”
Is this deflate-story really a bunch of media hype that is analogous to corked bats in baseball like all my Pats friends tell me? I'm not so sure.
This was totally debunked by Nate Silver and a bunch of actual statisticians. The claims this guy made were so mathematically wrong and logic flawed, but people couldn't wait to glob on to it.
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http://fansided.com/2015/01/09/cleveland-browns-investigation-sideline-texts/
Another scandal. No one cares because it is Cleveland.
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2015/02/atlanta_falcons_crowd_noise_nf.html
And no one cares because it is Atlanta.
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You're correct it is a bunch of nothing. And if Brady did exactly what Rodgers did the following day and said "I like my balls under-inflated so I had them under-inflated, next question" ... this would have been over in 20 minutes. (Recall the following day that Rodgers said he likes his balls over-inflated and they submit them with too much pressure and most of the time they pass.)
Instead Belichick and Brady went full Sgt. Schultz. That is the issue.
The cover-up is always worse than the crime. The issue here is whether the Patriots are covering this up.
(To put it in a political sense, what difference does it make that Nixon bugged the Watergate hotel, he won by 49 states and would have won anyway. Why didn't we let that issue die after two days? Answer, it was all about the cover-up.)
Now ESPN is tweeting that it might have only been 1 of the 12 footballs that was underinflated, not 11 of the 12.
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This was totally debunked by Nate Silver and a bunch of actual statisticians. The claims this guy made were so mathematically wrong and logic flawed, but people couldn't wait to glob on to it.
Someone with more time than I please do a forum search for a Chicos quote lambasting Nate Silver's credibility. I don't recall any specific examples, but there's got to be something somewhere.