MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: NersEllenson on January 22, 2015, 12:16:00 AM
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It is time for Wojo to turn the PG position over to Duane and groom him for the future. Get him experience the rest of the way from here on out to prepare for next season. Duane far and away has the best potential to be a PG of anybody on this current roster, or in looking to next year's class. Duane is quick enough, has good enough handles, can break people down off the dribble...plus if he wants any chance at the next level, he needs to become a bona fide PG
Perhaps in doing so, we actually find a winning formula yet this year.
PG - Duane
2G - Carlino
3G - JJJ/Cohen
4 - Juan
5 - LUke
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It is time for Wojo to turn the PG position over to Duane and groom him for the future. Get him experience the rest of the way from here on out to prepare for next season. Duane far and away has the best potential to be a PG of anybody on this current roster, or in looking to next year's class. Duane is quick enough, has good enough handles, can break people down off the dribble...plus if he wants any chance at the next level, he needs to become a bona fide PG
Perhaps in doing so, we actually find a winning formula yet this year.
PG - Duane
2G - Carlino
3G - JJJ/Cohen
4 - Juan
5 - LUke
I understand where you are coming from, but coaches don't think this way. As MattyV (the scooper, not the journalist) is fond of saying, you don't play to maybe be better the next season. You play to win now.
We are six games in. We've lost all our road games and have won all our home games. We've beaten the spread in every one of our losses except for Depaul and Omaha. We've got a three game homestand coming up. Win all three and we have a winning conference record. I think its too early to expect Wojo to pull the plug on this season.
I don't necessarily disagree with your line of thinking. I am worried about next year's PG position and I don't have high hopes for this season. But I understand why Wojo wants to keep fighting. I also understand how unfair it is to the seniors to just quit on the season.
Oh and if you moved Duane to PG, Derrick would still be our starting 3G ;)
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I understand where you are coming from, but coaches don't think this way. As MattyV (the scooper, not the journalist) is fond of saying, you don't play to maybe be better the next season. You play to win now.
We are six games in. We've lost all our road games and have won all our home games. We've beaten the spread in every one of our losses except for Depaul and Omaha. We've got a three game homestand coming up. Win all three and we have a winning conference record. I think its too early to expect Wojo to pull the plug on this season.
I don't necessarily disagree with your line of thinking. I am worried about next year's PG position and I don't have high hopes for this season. But I understand why Wojo wants to keep fighting. I also understand how unfair it is to the seniors to just quit on the season.
Oh and if you moved Duane to PG, Derrick would still be our starting 3G ;)
Why? Because Wojo told you so, right? It is time to try somebody else at PG. And to make you happy, Wojo can play Derrick at PF or SF, if you prefer.
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(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/beating-a-dead-horse-call-me-maybe.jpg)
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(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/beating-a-dead-horse-call-me-maybe.jpg)
(http://www.findincomenow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Einstein_InsanityDefinition.png)
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(http://www.findincomenow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Einstein_InsanityDefinition.png)
So you're saying that's what Marquette coaches are doing by giving Derrick minutes at the point? Ners reads ya.
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Ners,
I know where this thread is headed, and that's fine. I'm going to chose not to participate.
But, if I can ask a favor, can we keep this contained to this one specific thread and not do this after every game in multiple threads for the rest of the season?
I'd really appreciate that.
Thanks dude.
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Why? Because Wojo told you so, right? It is time to try somebody else at PG. And to make you happy, Wojo can play Derrick at PF or SF, if you prefer.
I was basing it on their performance so far. But if Derrick has more games like last night and Cohen and JjJ continue to step up, than Derrick will find his way to the bench.
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I was basing it on their performance so far. But if Derrick has more games like last night and Cohen and JjJ continue to step up, than Derrick will find his way to the bench.
JJJ did not step up last night and he certainly is not a point guard.
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JJJ did not step up last night and he certainly is not a point guard.
Well obviously but the comment was about what would happen to Derrick if Duane took over the point.
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I think grooming Duane at the point makes all the sense in the world, and you don't even need to alter Derrick's minutes one iota to do so.
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I am not sold that DuWil is the point guard of the future. Many see him as a 2 guard.
It looks like Wojo is looking at Jucos to fill the job for next year.
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I am not sold that DuWil is the point guard of the future. Many see him as a 2 guard.
It looks like Wojo is looking at Jucos to fill the job for next year.
The JC kid can be given a starting position so it has to attractive to any 2 year player.
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I love the idea of bringing in an impact player at PG from the juco ranks. Unfortunately, I don't know if that player exists. There are only two available players listed as PGs in the top 50 JUCOs, #16 Austin Pope from North Idaho College and #29 Dequon Miller from Motlow State Community College (TN). Now I'm not watching any of these kids' games so maybe one of the players listed as SG or SF actually has PG skills. But it seems like the juco talent at PG is limited at best.
I think we are more likely to try and get an impact point guard via graduate transfer. No idea who will be available but I think we have a better shot of find an instant contributor at PG there than JUCO.
Now there are some other JUCOs I would love to add...Kimani Jackson Deswhawn Freeman, or Andrew Zelis for example. Would be nice to add some more depth to the front court.
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Granted. Last game was not a good one for Derrick. But everyone else has trouble dribbling in traffic and against the press. Everyone.
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I love the idea of bringing in an impact player at PG from the juco ranks. Unfortunately, I don't know if that player exists. There are only two available players listed as PGs in the top 50 JUCOs, #16 Austin Pope from North Idaho College and #29 Dequon Miller from Motlow State Community College (TN). Now I'm not watching any of these kids' games so maybe one of the players listed as SG or SF actually has PG skills. But it seems like the juco talent at PG is limited at best.
I think we are more likely to try and get an impact point guard via graduate transfer. No idea who will be available but I think we have a better shot of find an instant contributor at PG there than JUCO.
Now there are some other JUCOs I would love to add...Kimani Jackson Deswhawn Freeman, or Andrew Zelis for example. Would be nice to add some more depth to the front court.
Fine. Find a JUCO PG that we may not find or know how he will perform. We can keep our eye out. In the meantime, give the keys to Duane to see what he can do. We all know Derrick's abilities, and he won't be here next year. We should at least be seeing what Duane can do, which has not yet been done.
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I understand where you are coming from, but coaches don't think this way. As MattyV (the scooper, not the journalist) is fond of saying, you don't play to maybe be better the next season. You play to win now.
We are six games in. We've lost all our road games and have won all our home games. We've beaten the spread in every one of our losses except for Depaul and Omaha. We've got a three game homestand coming up. Win all three and we have a winning conference record. I think its too early to expect Wojo to pull the plug on this season.
I don't necessarily disagree with your line of thinking. I am worried about next year's PG position and I don't have high hopes for this season. But I understand why Wojo wants to keep fighting. I also understand how unfair it is to the seniors to just quit on the season.
Oh and if you moved Duane to PG, Derrick would still be our starting 3G ;)
All good--play to win now. How has that bee working? We are 18 games in and playing at about .500. Since we have already lost all our away games, let's see how somebody else handles the PG at 30 plus minutes a game for several games. We already know how is has been handled.
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I am not sold that DuWil is the point guard of the future. Many see him as a 2 guard.
It looks like Wojo is looking at Jucos to fill the job for next year.
OK, you are not sold. Let's play him there now for some games to see how he sells. Logic: We will not have a PG for next year, and have plenty of 2G's for this year and next. Carlino, JJJ, Sandy, now. Juan can also play there. Next year, same minus Carlino and Juan and adding Cheatham. Plenty of 2G's--let's see what Duane can do.
That should sure answer some questions.
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I love the idea of bringing in an impact player at PG from the juco ranks. Unfortunately, I don't know if that player exists. There are only two available players listed as PGs in the top 50 JUCOs, #16 Austin Pope from North Idaho College and #29 Dequon Miller from Motlow State Community College (TN). Now I'm not watching any of these kids' games so maybe one of the players listed as SG or SF actually has PG skills. But it seems like the juco talent at PG is limited at best.
This is my concern as well. Furthermore, given how competitive recruiting is, it's no guarantee you get a JUCO PG. There also will be transfer options, yet if the player is good, it will also be very competitive to land the kid.
In my view, why would Wojo NOT make Duane the PG of the future? Duane will always be undersized as a 2 in the Big East. Highly doubt either Cheatham or Nick (if he even makes it to MU) will be legit options at PG next season.
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I love the idea of bringing in an impact player at PG from the juco ranks. Unfortunately, I don't know if that player exists. There are only two available players listed as PGs in the top 50 JUCOs, #16 Austin Pope from North Idaho College and #29 Dequon Miller from Motlow State Community College (TN). Now I'm not watching any of these kids' games so maybe one of the players listed as SG or SF actually has PG skills. But it seems like the juco talent at PG is limited at best.
I think we are more likely to try and get an impact point guard via graduate transfer. No idea who will be available but I think we have a better shot of find an instant contributor at PG there than JUCO.
Now there are some other JUCOs I would love to add...Kimani Jackson Deswhawn Freeman, or Andrew Zelis for example. Would be nice to add some more depth to the front court.
Thats quite a long name
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Thats quite a long name
And that's just his last name.
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I also understand how unfair it is to the seniors to just quit on the season.
As long as the shift in minutes from seniors to younger players is based on in-game performance, then Wojo is not "quitting" on his seniors--he's actually doing exactly what you think: trying to win now. He would have been more than justified in doing that with Derrick this year in several games. AmIrightNers?
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In my view, why would Wojo NOT make Duane the PG of the future? Duane will always be undersized as a 2 in the Big East. Highly doubt either Cheatham or Nick (if he even makes it to MU) will be legit options at PG next season.
I agree with this. I think the starting PG job is Duane's to lose for next season. He will have it until somebody takes it from him.
I think an impact transfer at PG would be great for our team. But I do think with a full offseason of work, that Duane would make a quality starting PG next season.
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I agree with this. I think the starting PG job is Duane's to lose for next season. He will have it until somebody takes it from him.
I think an impact transfer at PG would be great for our team. But I do think with a full offseason of work, that Duane would make a quality starting PG next season.
In my view, we aren't going to be an NCAA team this season if nothing changes. Yet, why not make the change this season and see what happens? In so doing, Duane gains valuable experience for next year, Wojo gets a diagnostic of Duane as a Big East level PG - and both player and coach can learn the necessary areas for improvement as the games will illustrate.
It's not hating on Derrick either to hope the above happens - it just makes sense for the program at this point. Also, like it or not, Wojo really needs to let JJJ get out there and play 25-30 a game to give both a sense of what he is at this point, what he can improve on - but the game experience will help him grow as a player for next season.
Duane - 30 Derrick 10
Carlino - 30 Cohen 10
JJJ - 27 Cohen 13
Juan - 30 Steve 10
Luke - 30 Steve 10
The above would be the best for the remainder of this year for us to turn it around, as well as help the most for next year. Perhaps you could add another 5-10 minutes for Derrick and take away 5-10 from JJJ/Cohen combined
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I'm surprised. This is the first time I've seen someone post negatively towards Derrick
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Wojo showed his willing to shake up minutes by playing whoever was hot last night. Derrick and Juan's minutes decreased. Sandy and Steve's went up. We've got a big homestand coming up. Let's see who steps up and takes their minutes by force.
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I think grooming Duane at the point makes all the sense in the world, and you don't even need to alter Derrick's minutes one iota to do so.
Fine. Find a JUCO PG that we may not find or know how he will perform. We can keep our eye out. In the meantime, give the keys to Duane to see what he can do. We all know Derrick's abilities, and he won't be here next year. We should at least be seeing what Duane can do, which has not yet been done.
I wonder if there is any correlation between those posters that accuse a coach (like Buzz or Wojo) of throwing a season and those posters who actually wish that they would do so.
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I wonder if there is any correlation between those posters that accuse a coach (like Buzz or Wojo) of throwing a season and those posters who actually wish that they would do so.
LOL - I'll take your bait MURS. I don't believe Wojo is "throwing this season." I stand by my belief that Buzz was giving admin a Big F You on the way out of town last year.
Lastly, I assume you are implying that if we went to the lineup I suggested in this thread - that would be indicative of trying to throw the season?? Sorry, but just like last year, when you and some others preached patience, Buzz's teams get better, blah, blah - the same is holding true this year and will continue to hold true - we aren't going to win at a decent clip if nothing changes. Now, we may not win anymore if Wojo does make the change - but at least you are getting playing experience for the future, a diagnostic for the player and coach next year - and that is in the long term interests of the program. Period.
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LOL - I'll take your bait MURS. I don't believe Wojo is "throwing this season." I stand by my belief that Buzz was giving admin a Big F You on the way out of town last year.
Lastly, I assume you are implying that if we went to the lineup I suggested in this thread - that would be indicative of trying to throw the season?? Sorry, but just like last year, when you and some others preached patience, Buzz's teams get better, blah, blah - the same is holding true this year and will continue to hold true - we aren't going to win at a decent clip if nothing changes. Now, we may not win anymore if Wojo does make the change - but at least you are getting playing experience for the future, a diagnostic for the player and coach next year - and that is in the long term interests of the program. Period.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Why anyone would argue against guys earning minutes and for handing them out undeservedly is beyond me. Put in the work, get better, earn the minutes. It's hardly a difficult concept.
All this stupid "give minutes for the sake of it" crap is why we have so many entitled kids that want everything handed to them.
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LOL - I'll take your bait MURS. I don't believe Wojo is "throwing this season." I stand by my belief that Buzz was giving admin a Big F You on the way out of town last year.
Lastly, I assume you are implying that if we went to the lineup I suggested in this thread - that would be indicative of trying to throw the season?? Sorry, but just like last year, when you and some others preached patience, Buzz's teams get better, blah, blah - the same is holding true this year and will continue to hold true - we aren't going to win at a decent clip if nothing changes. Now, we may not win anymore if Wojo does make the change - but at least you are getting playing experience for the future, a diagnostic for the player and coach next year - and that is in the long term interests of the program. Period.
I'd say that all eight scholarship players are receiving plenty of playing time Ners. I've stood up for you on many occasions because I don't subscribe to the belief that coaches are perfect in their decision making. In this case I think you're wrong.
Derrick Wilson is one of the best five players on this team this season. He was terrible last year. He's improved quite a bit since last season yet he is never going to be what your definition of a point guard should be. He had a awful night last night (as did many others). We can argue about potential but when the roster is eight deep and the playing time is fairly equitable thus far (it has been) I'd say everyone is having a chance at development this season.
Is the four minute per game difference that Derrick gets (31.2) over Duane (27.2) the extra four minutes Duane needs to develop???
Think about that for one second. You're complaining about what amounts to a medium length pop song on the radio in terms of minutes played per game. Over the course of a season it barely adds up to a feature length film.
Do you really want to go on record saying that the amount of time it takes to watch The Shawshank Redemption is the reason why Duane Wilson won't reach his potential for next season?
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I'd say that all eight scholarship players are receiving plenty of playing time Ners. I've stood up for you on many occasions because I don't subscribe to the belief that coaches are perfect in their decision making. In this case I think you're wrong.
Derrick Wilson is one of the best five players on this team this season. He was terrible last year. He's improved quite a bit since last season yet he is never going to be what your definition of a point guard should be. He had a awful night last night (as did many others). We can argue about potential but when the roster is eight deep and the playing time is fairly equitable thus far (it has been) I'd say everyone is having a chance at development this season.
Is the four minute per game difference that Derrick gets (31.2) over Duane (27.2) the extra four minutes Duane needs to develop???
Think about that for one second. You're complaining about what amounts to a medium length pop song on the radio in terms of minutes played per game. Over the course of a season it barely adds up to a feature length film.
Do you really want to go on record saying that the amount of time it takes to watch The Shawshank Redemption is the reason why Duane Wilson won't reach his potential for next season?
Hi Matty - I understand your point. And I agree Derrick is MUCH better this year than last - though I'm not sure I believe he is one of the 5 best players on the team. And while you raise good points about their minute distribution only being separated by 4 minutes - the bigger issue to me is this: Though Wojo's offense does involve a good deal of interchange among the guards - Derrick has been the primary ball handler bringing the ball up the court, initiating the offense.
I want to see Duane in that role so we get him experience for next year, see what he has this year, and see how it affects the team. I also feel that the program would benefit more long term if 20 of Derrick's current 30 minutes were given to JJJ and Cohen. I also do believe we'd have a better chance of winning if this did take place as well.
But again, I agree Derrick is much improved over last year - yet I don't see it being enough to help this team win in such a way that we have a chance at NCAA. Perhaps, we catch a little lightening in a bottle and go on a run if we turn the keys over to Duane and the youngsters - and if not, we weren't likely making the NCAA anyway. Not sure anyone much cares if we go to the NIT - though to not make it last year was embarrassing considering what that team had in the way of talent.
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While I'd obviously prefer to make the NCAAs, the NIT would make me happy, and that would actually benefit the kids. It would be a nice badge for seniors that missed all postseason last year, and playing those games would be a good experience for the young players that have never played a postseason tournament.
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It appears, from at least one poster who claims to be near the coaching staff, that the staff believes Cheatham to be the PG next year.
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While I'd obviously prefer to make the NCAAs, the NIT would make me happy, and that would actually benefit the kids. It would be a nice badge for seniors that missed all postseason last year, and playing those games would be a good experience for the young players that have never played a postseason tournament.
That's a good point. Though I see it as being the likely outcome whether we make a change or don't make a change. But I cannot see this team making the NCAA if nothing changes.
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Why anyone would argue against guys earning minutes and for handing them out undeservedly is beyond me. Put in the work, get better, earn the minutes. It's hardly a difficult concept.
All this stupid "give minutes for the sake of it" crap is why we have so many entitled kids that want everything handed to them.
Ding Ding Ding!! Spoken like someone who actually played competitive sports.
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It appears, from at least one poster who claims to be near the coaching staff, that the staff believes Cheatham to be the PG next year.
I, myself, am not close to the coaching staff. I was a manager my frosh year for Buzz/Autry during the DJO/Crowder Sweet 16 season. But the other manager in my class is still there (all the credit to him) and occasionally fills me in on things I am curious about. I've let him know I bring a little of what he says to this board and he doesn't mind.....so there.....no bridge burned.
A few weeks back I asked him who Wojo was looking at to assume PG duties next year since Derrick and Matt will both be graduating. All he told me was that Duane could take the reigns but that the staff really loves the prospect of Haanif running the point. Of course that is months away, but it is worth discussing with opinions I respect on this board.
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I, myself, am not close to the coaching staff. I was a manager my frosh year for Buzz/Autry during the DJO/Crowder Sweet 16 season. But the other manager in my class is still there (all the credit to him) and occasionally fills me in on things I am curious about. I've let him know I bring a little of what he says to this board and he doesn't mind.....so there.....no bridge burned.
A few weeks back I asked him who Wojo was looking at to assume PG duties next year since Derrick and Matt will both be graduating. All he told me was that Duane could take the reigns but that the staff really loves the prospect of Haanif running the point. Of course that is months away, but it is worth discussing with opinions I respect on this board.
Thanks for the info.
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Why anyone would argue against guys earning minutes and for handing them out undeservedly is beyond me. Put in the work, get better, earn the minutes. It's hardly a difficult concept.
All this stupid "give minutes for the sake of it" crap is why we have so many entitled kids that want everything handed to them.
Brew - The problem is, that largely, based on the on floor play - It doesn't merit giving 35+ minutes per game in conference play. Particularly to a guy that isn't integral to the future of the program. At some point, when the lights are on, you HAVE to perform. Some coaches have a hard time trusting underclassmen. Plain and simple.
I've worked with salespeople who had to make 80 calls per day to even have a chance at success, while others can make 20 and consistently outperform them. Though you love the grinder, and hard working guy - eventually production matters - and when it comes time for a promotion/raise - the guy who produces gets the raise.
Playing the underclassmen isn't playing them for the sake of playing them - it wouldn't even be a debate if the upperclassmen were performing at a good level. (But they aren't.) Playing the young guys is investing in the future of your program. And that has value.
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I wonder if there is any correlation between those posters that accuse a coach (like Buzz or Wojo) of throwing a season and those posters who actually wish that they would do so.
Nobody accused Wojo of throwing the season. And there is absolutely no evidence that if Duane was given significant minutes at PG this year to see what happens that is throwing the season. Everybody knows Derricks's skill set and many are still praying that he can lead us to many victories, but that is not happening. Everybody also knows we need a PG next year. But very few want to change it up to see what Duane can do. How do you know until you try him? Answer: You do not. So give him the keys to see how he does. If he fails, then those people can say I told you so. If he plays well or even average, then he may be the solution. Seems logical.
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It appears, from at least one poster who claims to be near the coaching staff, that the staff believes Cheatham to be the PG next year.
So, allegedly the staff believes that Cheatham will be the answer, so we do not try somebody now to see how he performs? Does not make sense. And besides, we have been told that Wojo wants to win now, so why not try it now. Lots can happen between now and next year that could make the "staff's" feelings change.
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So, allegedly the staff believes that Cheatham will be the answer, so we do not try somebody now to see how he performs? Does not make sense. And besides, we have been told that Wojo wants to win now, so why not try it now. Lots can happen between now and next year that could make the "staff's" feelings change.
Do you really think a coaching staff comprised primarily of former elite college guards doesn't already know what Duane can do? That's why many think this whole line of reasoning is asinine.
They know. Let me say that again -- THEY KNOW
They know that Derrick is the best option.
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Do you really think a coaching staff comprised primarily of former elite college guards doesn't already know what Duane can do? That's why many think this whole line of reasoning is asinine.
They know. Let me say that again -- THEY KNOW
They know that Derrick is the best option.
And as the poster said - they feel Duane is a viable and capable option at the PG right now.
So like the last coaching staff, this coaching staff, can continue to beat the dead horse of playing Derrick Wilson 30+ minutes per game, and continuing to see us lose at a high rate. Or try an alternative, and at minimum see if it makes a difference for THIS season. (Not to mention gain valuable diagnostic data on Duane as a GAME (not practice) player at the PG position.)
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Brew - The problem is, that largely, based on the on floor play - It doesn't merit giving 35+ minutes per game in conference play. Particularly to a guy that isn't integral to the future of the program. At some point, when the lights are on, you HAVE to perform. Some coaches have a hard time trusting underclassmen. Plain and simple.
I know people don't like aspects of Derrick's game, but right now turnovers are killing us. The reason Derrick is the primary ballhandler is because he can be trusted to protect the ball. Playing him only 10-15 minutes would almost certainly lead to more turnovers.
Are there cases where the trade off might be worth it? Sure. But thus far, neither Duane nor Jajuan have proven they are at that level. Jajuan's shooting hasn't earned it and Duane's ballhandling hasn't earned it.
Like him or not, we need what Derrick brings to that role, and I'm confident we will miss those parts of his game next year. I still have high hopes for both of those guys, but they will learn more and become better players if they earn time rather than just being thrown to the wolves and going it goes well.
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So like the last coaching staff, this coaching staff, can continue to beat the dead horse of playing Derrick Wilson 30+ minutes per game, and continuing to see us lose at a high rate. Or try an alternative, and at minimum see if it makes a difference for THIS season. (Not to mention gain valuable diagnostic data on Duane as a GAME (not practice) player at the PG position.)
Irony.
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And as the poster said - they feel Duane is a viable and capable option at the PG right now.
So like the last coaching staff, this coaching staff, can continue to beat the dead horse of playing Derrick Wilson 30+ minutes per game, and continuing to see us lose at a high rate. Or try an alternative, and at minimum see if it makes a difference for THIS season. (Not to mention gain valuable diagnostic data on Duane as a GAME (not practice) player at the PG position.)
Well, it seems negative punishment doesn't work that well. Maybe try positive punishment? Positive or negative reinforcement?
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I would like to see Duane get the chance to run the team . I think Duane and JJJ together give us a very nice transition duo, as Cohen matures he is also part of that style of play. Also it would greatly benefit Luke.
I want to win now and belief that Duane gives us more of a chance to win than Derrick.
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I want to win now and belief that Duane gives us more of a chance to win than Derrick.
Email the coaches. I am sure they would appreciate your input.
I'm sure they get a good laugh out the ones that Buzz printed out and left taped to the wall about John Dawson.
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I know people don't like aspects of Derrick's game, but right now turnovers are killing us. The reason Derrick is the primary ballhandler is because he can be trusted to protect the ball. Playing him only 10-15 minutes would almost certainly lead to more turnovers.
Are there cases where the trade off might be worth it? Sure. But thus far, neither Duane nor Jajuan have proven they are at that level. Jajuan's shooting hasn't earned it and Duane's ballhandling hasn't earned it.
Like him or not, we need what Derrick brings to that role, and I'm confident we will miss those parts of his game next year. I still have high hopes for both of those guys, but they will learn more and become better players if they earn time rather than just being thrown to the wolves and going it goes well.
You do not know who else can be trusted with the ball. Yes TO's are killing us (BTW our TO's are substantially less than opponents this year).--other areas are also killing us are: rebounding; FT shooting; poor shooting; lack of height and depth, and so on. What level is it that Duane and JJJ not at? Derrick's? I for one am comfortable that Duane could dribble the ball around the perimeter as well as Derrick. Of course we will not find out until we try it for a while. Instead we will sit back and say that Derrick is better playing PG for 30 plus per game with the same results, you and others will not admit that it might be a good idea to try something different. Never change what is not getting the job done to see if it might do better. Right?
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I must admit I hold my breath whenever Duane is on the perimeter and tries to take his defender off the dribble. Hope the staff is working with him on that first step.
Awfully close to traveling more often than not.
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Derrick is our best rebounding guard, has been a better shooter than in the past and better from range than Jajuan, and is still a better defender than anyone else in the backcourt. Those guys won't fix that if they take Derrick's minutes. With our bench, we don't really have many other options, and we haven't seen anything to indicate those options are better.
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I know people don't like aspects of Derrick's game, but right now turnovers are killing us. The reason Derrick is the primary ballhandler is because he can be trusted to protect the ball. Playing him only 10-15 minutes would almost certainly lead to more turnovers.
Are there cases where the trade off might be worth it? Sure. But thus far, neither Duane nor Jajuan have proven they are at that level. Jajuan's shooting hasn't earned it and Duane's ballhandling hasn't earned it.
Like him or not, we need what Derrick brings to that role, and I'm confident we will miss those parts of his game next year. I still have high hopes for both of those guys, but they will learn more and become better players if they earn time rather than just being thrown to the wolves and going it goes well.
I don't think anyone will miss what Derrick brings to the table on offense. His defense is average to good depending on the game, but nowhere near the "elite" defender he is made out to be. I could see us possibly missing his leadership, but that is about all.
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Seems like the only option.
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Couldn't have said it better myself.
Ultimately that's the problem, isn't it?
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At a school like Marquette where 4 year players are the norm (with a few JUCO's who end up graduating as another key ingredient) I would NOT want to risk developing a reputation as a coach or a program that ditches it's seniors.
Some of these guys (not Derrick) are good enough to make a few bucks playing pro ball somewhere, and their senior year is the basis for that first pro contract.
Others use it as a basis for developing another career, whether in or out of the basketball industry. All of these are good for the MU hoops program long term.
Finally, how well is a marginalized senior going to lead? What example will he set?
I'm saying play the guys that earn the time - but respect the seniors and what they can bring to the program. What if Brent had marginalized Wes as a senior?
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LOL - I'll take your bait MURS. I don't believe Wojo is "throwing this season." I stand by my belief that Buzz was giving admin a Big F You on the way out of town last year.
Lastly, I assume you are implying that if we went to the lineup I suggested in this thread - that would be indicative of trying to throw the season?? Sorry, but just like last year, when you and some others preached patience, Buzz's teams get better, blah, blah - the same is holding true this year and will continue to hold true - we aren't going to win at a decent clip if nothing changes. Now, we may not win anymore if Wojo does make the change - but at least you are getting playing experience for the future, a diagnostic for the player and coach next year - and that is in the long term interests of the program. Period.
You misunderstood me. (In your first paragraph at least.) Admittedly, I could have been clearer. I didn't mean to imply that you (and others) thought that Wojo was throwing this season. What I meant was that those who want to have Duane Wilson play the majority of the minutes at point guard in order to "groom" him for the future instead of whoever gives the team the best chance to win are actually hoping that Wojo will do something that will, in fact, "throw" this season.
I am not a believer in the play a player in order to develop him argument. As others have already pointed out often, that is going with a player who hasn't earned his playing time ahead of one who has. Under mentioned is the effect on team moral and chemistry such preferential treatment would have. IMO, practice time and individual development sessions are when development occurs in successful programs.
What irks me about many of your posts, Ners, is that it seems to me that you develop a preference for players based on irrelevant criteria like how highly they were ranked by recruiting services and then do a great deal of logical gymnastics to justify why they should play. I, and I believe most, if not all, of your critics see you going to the numbers to figure out how to support a position you already hold based on other criteria while those whose opinions I hold in higher esteem seem to go to the numbers to investigate who is playing most effectively and why. That's a very big difference in approach.
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You misunderstood me. (In your first paragraph at least.) Admittedly, I could have been clearer. I didn't mean to imply that you (and others) thought that Wojo was throwing this season. What I meant was that those who want to have Duane Wilson play the majority of the minutes at point guard in order to "groom" him for the future instead of whoever gives the team the best chance to win are actually hoping that Wojo will do something that will, in fact, "throw" this season.
I am not a believer in the play a player in order to develop him argument. As others have already pointed out often, that is going with a player who hasn't earned his playing time ahead of one who has. Under mentioned is the effect on team moral and chemistry such preferential treatment would have. IMO, practice time and individual development sessions are when development occurs in successful programs.
What irks me about many of your posts, Ners, is that it seems to me that you develop a preference for players based on irrelevant criteria like how highly they were ranked by recruiting services and then do a great deal of logical gymnastics to justify why they should play. I, and I believe most, if not all, of your critics see you going to the numbers to figure out how to support a position you already hold based on other criteria while those whose opinions I hold in higher esteem seem to go to the numbers to investigate who is playing most effectively and why. That's a very big difference in approach.
No worries Murs. Let me clarify: I believe moving Duane to PG and reducing Derrick to 10-15 minutes per game would actually HELP give this team its best chance to win...and groom Duane for the future. I actually felt many of those who disagree with me shared this opinion - that Derrick's ideal role would be 10-15 minutes. And yes, while he has improved this year, he's production is still commensurate with a 10-15 minute per game player. And this year with Carlino and Duane we do have two other guys that can handle the PG position solidly.
We are now 10-8 for the year, without much in the way of a quality win, a bad loss against NJIT, and are 2-4 in the Big East. I know some cannot come to terms with the notion that it is EVER possible for a head coach to make a wrong decision with regard to how they allocate playing time. Just feel this season is going down the exact same path as last season, and if nothing changes, we will likely lose a vast majority of the remaining games, albeit many closely - and we go into the offseason without knowing what might could have been had we made a drastic change in approach.
It is hard to win games when you are consistently at a 5-10 point per game disadvantage at the PG position in virtually every game - particularly when our PG has been given 31.2 minutes per game on average.
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No worries Murs. Let me clarify: I believe moving Duane to PG and reducing Derrick to 10-15 minutes per game would actually HELP give this team its best chance to win...and groom Duane for the future. I actually felt many of those who disagree with me shared this opinion - that Derrick's ideal role would be 10-15 minutes. And yes, while he has improved this year, he's production is still commensurate with a 10-15 minute per game player. And this year with Carlino and Duane we do have two other guys that can handle the PG position solidly.
We are now 10-8 for the year, without much in the way of a quality win, a bad loss against NJIT, and are 2-4 in the Big East. I know some cannot come to terms with the notion that it is EVER possible for a head coach to make a wrong decision with regard to how they allocate playing time. Just feel this season is going down the exact same path as last season, and if nothing changes, we will likely lose a vast majority of the remaining games, albeit many closely - and we go into the offseason without knowing what might could have been had we made a drastic change in approach.
It is hard to win games when you are consistently at a 5-10 point per game disadvantage at the PG position in virtually every game - particularly when our PG has been given 31.2 minutes per game on average.
We beat NJIT this year.
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Email the coaches. I am sure they would appreciate your input.
I'm sure they get a good laugh out the ones that Buzz printed out and left taped to the wall about John Dawson.
Yeah Sultan you are sure about everything, but factual about far less. Highly doubt that Buzz printed out anything about Dawson and left taped to the wall when he was shown the door. Now his comments about Derrick being an elite defender emblazoned in blue and gold are much more likely.
OK, I will agree that both our statements are hyperbole.
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Where are you getting your stats, Ners? I'm showing 32.1 min, 5.0 pts, 4.3 ast, 1.9 reb, and .308 FG%.
Oh wait, that's UVA point guard London Perrantes.
How is that 5-10 point disadvantage treating them?
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Where are you getting your stats, Ners? I'm showing 32.1 min, 5.0 pts, 4.3 ast, 1.9 reb, and .308 FG%.
Oh wait, that's UVA point guard London Perrantes.
How is that 5-10 point disadvantage treating them?
Impossible. That would be historically bad!
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Yeah Sultan you are sure about everything, but factual about far less. Highly doubt that Buzz printed out anything about Dawson and left taped to the wall when he was shown the door. Now his comments about Derrick being an elite defender emblazoned in blue and gold are much more likely.
OK, I will agree that both our statements are hyperbole.
Wojo said the same thing on his radio show. I guess he doesn't know what he is talking about either.
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Where are you getting your stats, Ners? I'm showing 32.1 min, 5.0 pts, 4.3 ast, 1.9 reb, and .308 FG%.
Oh wait, that's UVA point guard London Perrantes.
How is that 5-10 point disadvantage treating them?
DAWSON SHOULD HAVE WENT THERE!!!1!
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OK, legitimate question here. Ners likes to throw out reducing Derrick's minutes to 10-15 a game down from 31...where do those minutes go?
Duane is already averaging 27 a game so he can only realistically absorb maybe 5 of the now available 16(assuming Derrick at 15). That leaves 11 minutes.
Carlino is at 32 a game so at most he can absorb 1 minute. We're now down to 10 minutes we have to find someplace to put.
Luke isn't an option given foul concerns.
That leaves Teve, Juan, Sandy, and JjJ. I don't think Teve or Juan need/deserve any more minutes right now, does anyone else?
That leaves Sandy and JjJ. In theory the answer is take JjJ from 21 minutes to 31 minutes but JjJ performance has been worse than Derricks. So basically you are looking to take Sandy from 13 to 18 and JjJ from 21 to 26, that's the winning recipe?
I think Sandy needs more minutes but those are going to be coming at the expense of Juan and Teve, not Derrick. JjJ is just not better than Derrick right now.
Duane is already playing a lot of minutes, and in principle I agree you move him to PG and see what he does there but then what do you do with Derrick? Then Derrick is playing off ball and that is definitely not something he is good at. Because of the make up and performance of the roster, Derrick has to play at least 25 minutes a game...how does he play that many minutes at the 2 and this team still win?
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Where are you getting your stats, Ners? I'm showing 32.1 min, 5.0 pts, 4.3 ast, 1.9 reb, and .308 FG%.
Oh wait, that's UVA point guard London Perrantes.
How is that 5-10 point disadvantage treating them?
Good find Kinsella. I applaud you. Highly doubt anyone would have any issues if this team were 18-0. Or if it were ranked in the Top 10 last season. But, we've foundered. And for context:
Perrantes: SOPHOMORE 74.8% of minutes played, 106.7 OR, 34% 3pt shooter, 88%FT shooter, 23.2% Assist Rate, 26th in country in least fouls committed per 40.
Wilson: SENIOR: 77.9% of minutes played, 102.6 OR, 29% 3 pt shooter, 48%FT, 21.8% Assist Rate, 204th in country in least fouls committed per 40.
Nobody would suggest messing with a Top 10 team, or an undefeated team. The formula is working for UVA. It hasn't at MU..and we had a lot of talent on our team last year, just as we do this year, albeit some of it is gone and underutilized.
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Until someone starts to make the argument that the starting line up needs to be Duane, JJJ, Sandy, Steve, and Luke, play them all 30 minutes barring foul trouble, and let Juan, Derrick, and Matt split the last 50....this is all just needlessly beating up on Derrick.
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OK, legitimate question here. Ners likes to throw out reducing Derrick's minutes to 10-15 a game down from 31...where do those minutes go?
Duane is already averaging 27 a game so he can only realistically absorb maybe 5 of the now available 16(assuming Derrick at 15). That leaves 11 minutes.
Carlino is at 32 a game so at most he can absorb 1 minute. We're now down to 10 minutes we have to find someplace to put.
Luke isn't an option given foul concerns.
That leaves Teve, Juan, Sandy, and JjJ. I don't think Teve or Juan need/deserve any more minutes right now, does anyone else?
That leaves Sandy and JjJ. In theory the answer is take JjJ from 21 minutes to 31 minutes but JjJ performance has been worse than Derricks. So basically you are looking to take Sandy from 13 to 18 and JjJ from 21 to 26, that's the winning recipe?
I think Sandy needs more minutes but those are going to be coming at the expense of Juan and Teve, not Derrick. JjJ is just not better than Derrick right now.
Duane is already playing a lot of minutes, and in principle I agree you move him to PG and see what he does there but then what do you do with Derrick? Then Derrick is playing off ball and that is definitely not something he is good at. Because of the make up and performance of the roster, Derrick has to play at least 25 minutes a game...how does he play that many minutes at the 2 and this team still win?
He doesn't need to play 25 minutes. You give 20 of his 32 minutes to JJJ and Cohen. Period. Both Cohen and JJJ could be just as effective at the bottom of the zone. Ever see Boheim play a 6'1" guy on the bottom of his zone? Length in a zone is a huge benefit. Cohen and JJJ have it. They both score the ball at a much better rate than Derrick as well - and both have much more time left in the program. Invest in the future, when the present and past has been a losing investment.
And lastly, as I've said many times, if you give a guy consistent playing time, 30 minutes a game, you will get the best he has to offer. JJJ and Sandy have yet to have this opportunity. Let them get into solid rhythms.
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He doesn't need to play 25 minutes. You give 20 of his 32 minutes to JJJ and Cohen. Period. Both Cohen and JJJ could be just as effective at the bottom of the zone. Ever see Boheim play a 6'1" guy on the bottom of his zone? Length in a zone is a huge benefit. Cohen and JJJ have it.
Length is great in a 1-3-1...but either up top or on the wings. On the bottom of a 1-3-1 you want someone who can run the baseline AND mix it up underneath because they invariably are going to be involved with rebounding. While JJJ and Sandy can do the former, I am not sure they can do the latter. Derrick is very good at both - Wojo indicated as such on his radio show yesterday.
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Length is great in a 1-3-1...but either up top or on the wings. On the bottom of a 1-3-1 you want someone who can run the baseline AND mix it up underneath because they invariably are going to be involved with rebounding. While JJJ and Sandy can do the former, I am not sure they can do the latter. Derrick is very good at both - Wojo indicated as such on his radio show yesterday.
But Wojo doesn't know what the f**k he is talking about.
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I'd say that all eight scholarship players are receiving plenty of playing time Ners. I've stood up for you on many occasions because I don't subscribe to the belief that coaches are perfect in their decision making. In this case I think you're wrong.
Derrick Wilson is one of the best five players on this team this season. He was terrible last year. He's improved quite a bit since last season yet he is never going to be what your definition of a point guard should be. He had a awful night last night (as did many others). We can argue about potential but when the roster is eight deep and the playing time is fairly equitable thus far (it has been) I'd say everyone is having a chance at development this season.
Is the four minute per game difference that Derrick gets (31.2) over Duane (27.2) the extra four minutes Duane needs to develop???
Think about that for one second. You're complaining about what amounts to a medium length pop song on the radio in terms of minutes played per game. Over the course of a season it barely adds up to a feature length film.
Do you really want to go on record saying that the amount of time it takes to watch The Shawshank Redemption is the reason why Duane Wilson won't reach his potential for next season?
Spot on MattyV. Just one tweak - there are only 12 games left in the regular season, plus at least one in the BET = 13. That's 52 additional minutes for Duane from here on out. That'd get you a couple of sitcoms if you fast forward through the commercials. ;)
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I had a friend in HS who was a big, strong kid even as a freshman. He was athletic and smart and could throw a football a mile. Freshman year, the coaches naturally tried to make him a QB. He looked the part, he had the skills but it just didn't click for him. Same thing sophomore year. As much as the coaches wanted him to be a QB, he didn't make option reads very well, he put no touch on his passes and he typically panicked and just ran the ball when passing plays were called. His junior and senior year, he backed up a 5'10" noodle-armed QB...but was a two-time All-Conference linebacker.
My point? No matter how much a player might "look the part" and no matter how hard he works and no matter how much the coaches may want a player to fit a specific position/role, sometimes it's simply not what's best for the team or the player.
I have no doubt that Wojo wants Duane to be MU's star PG from now until he graduates, but if Duane's game doesn't fit that role, Wojo would be doing a disservice to Duane and the entire team by trying to force him into it.
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Wojo said the same thing on his radio show. I guess he doesn't know what he is talking about either.
Oh Thanks. Thought you meant that Wojo said Sultan was sure about everything. Just to confirm, where did Wojo say that Derrick was an elite defender? Haven't heard that. Did hear Buzz say it at least three times.
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Oh Thanks. Thought you meant that Wojo said Sultan was sure about everything. Just to confirm, where did Wojo say that Derrick was an elite defender? Haven't heard that. Did hear Buzz say it at least three times.
Did you read my post that you quoted?
Wojo said the same thing on his radio show. I guess he doesn't know what he is talking about either.
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He doesn't need to play 25 minutes. You give 20 of his 32 minutes to JJJ and Cohen. Period. Both Cohen and JJJ could be just as effective at the bottom of the zone. Ever see Boheim play a 6'1" guy on the bottom of his zone? Length in a zone is a huge benefit. Cohen and JJJ have it. They both score the ball at a much better rate than Derrick as well - and both have much more time left in the program. Invest in the future, when the present and past has been a losing investment.
And lastly, as I've said many times, if you give a guy consistent playing time, 30 minutes a game, you will get the best he has to offer. JJJ and Sandy have yet to have this opportunity. Let them get into solid rhythms.
JjJ hasn't been better than Derrick. Could an argument be made for giving him a few of Derrick's minutes? Sure, but only a couple.
Cohen hasn't been better than Derrick either. But he was better in the last game and may continue to be so. I see two potential problems with Sandy taking Derrick's minutes. One, Sandy plays at the top of the zone, Derrick plays at the bottom/wing. Sultan pointed out Derrick's role in the the 1-3-1 already. But in the 2-3 Sandy's length is best utilized at the top of the zone. He could potentially play the wing but I think he would struggle a bit. But that can be overcome. The second issue I see is our size. Wojo only has four players to play the two post positions and Sandy is one of them. If you point Sandy at the 3, with a combo of Juan/Luke/Steve at the four and the five, you have 3 of your only 4 post players in the game. That can cause some serious fatigue and foul trouble issues. Luke has been a lightening rod for fouls. If Juan is having one of his bad foul games too...that lineup could take us out of a game real early.
I think Sandy's increased minutes will come at the expense of Luke/Juan/Steve. The only players who can take minutes from Derrick are Duane and JjJ. Duane already is getting 27 so he doesn't need too many more. JjJ can earn them with better play. We can't forget that JjJ got 25 or more minutes in 7 games this season. When he is playing well, Wojo will play him.
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He doesn't need to play 25 minutes. You give 20 of his 32 minutes to JJJ and Cohen. Period. Both Cohen and JJJ could be just as effective at the bottom of the zone. Ever see Boheim play a 6'1" guy on the bottom of his zone? Length in a zone is a huge benefit. Cohen and JJJ have it. They both score the ball at a much better rate than Derrick as well - and both have much more time left in the program. Invest in the future, when the present and past has been a losing investment.
And lastly, as I've said many times, if you give a guy consistent playing time, 30 minutes a game, you will get the best he has to offer. JJJ and Sandy have yet to have this opportunity. Let them get into solid rhythms.
You're about the eye test, watch when Derrick's at the bottom of the 1-3-1 versus anyone else. Length doesn't matter down there and he is smarter at it then everyone else that could play there.
Regardless, throw out the 1-3-1 there is no way you can justify JjJ get 32 minutes a game, that's more than Duane gets. Just insane. Cohen's minutes are starting to ramp up but again, he's not taking those from Derrick, they aren't interchangable.
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I had a friend in HS who was a big, strong kid even as a freshman. He was athletic and smart and could throw a football a mile. Freshman year, the coaches naturally tried to make him a QB. He looked the part, he had the skills but it just didn't click for him. Same thing sophomore year. As much as the coaches wanted him to be a QB, he didn't make option reads very well, he put no touch on his passes and he typically panicked and just ran the ball when passing plays were called. His junior and senior year, he backed up a 5'10" noodle-armed QB...but was a two-time All-Conference linebacker.
My point? No matter how much a player might "look the part" and no matter how hard he works and no matter how much the coaches may want a player to fit a specific position/role, sometimes it's simply not what's best for the team or the player.
I have no doubt that Wojo wants Duane to be MU's star PG from now until he graduates, but if Duane's game doesn't fit that role, Wojo would be doing a disservice to Duane and the entire team by trying to force him into it.
Replace Duane's name with Derrick above and your post couldn't be more accurate. Although I'd say Derrick doesn't look the part of a PG.
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Replace Duane's name with Derrick above and your post couldn't be more accurate. Although I'd say Derrick doesn't look the part of a PG.
Simple question, Ners: Why have two separate, independent coaching staffs found it necessary to play Derrick so many minutes at PG when there are supposedly several better, obvious alternatives?
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Simple question, Ners: Why have two separate, independent coaching staffs found it necessary to play Derrick so many minutes at PG when there are supposedly several better, obvious alternatives?
Because they didn't play high school basketball at a competitive level.
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Because they didn't play high school basketball at a competitive level.
Except that one of those staffs is full of high major/pro level talent at specifically the guard positions
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Except that one of those staffs is full of high major/pro level talent at specifically the guard positions
Yeah, but what's a McDonald's All-American really worth? I mean, does that even count as competitive high school basketball? You really underestimate some of the basketball geniuses on this site.
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Simple question, Ners: Why have two separate, independent coaching staffs found it necessary to play Derrick so many minutes at PG when there are supposedly several better, obvious alternatives?
One: Buzz didn't have MU's best interests at heart last season. Period.
Two: Look at who Wojo was as a player. Personal bias's do exist Merritt. Some guys are just coaches types of guys due to make up. Doesn't mean they are the best option for the position. Posted this before. Travis Diener before the season started commented on EVER player - except Derrick. When asked about Dawson: John's a great athlete that can knock down shots and help us.
Clearly, Diener had a different assessment on the player. Player personnel people and coaches in front offices all over the sports world often have disagreements regarding a player's ability.
The problem is, that when your "chosen one" continues to be well below average for his position - and the losses keep mounting - at some point you need to course correct and at very minimum see if you've been taking the wrong approach.
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One: Buzz didn't have MU's best interests at heart last season. Period.
Two: Look at who Wojo was as a player. Personal bias's do exist Merritt. Some guys are just coaches types of guys due to make up. Doesn't mean they are the best option for the position. Posted this before. Travis Diener before the season started commented on EVER player - except Derrick. When asked about Dawson: John's a great athlete that can knock down shots and help us.
That would be "False" and "False." (Seriously...drawing conclusions from a pre-season interview with the director of player personnel...) ::)
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One: Buzz didn't have MU's best interests at heart last season. Period.
Buzz had Buzz's best interests at heart. Which meant winning as much as possible. He tried to do that, but the team as a whole just wasn't up to the task.
Two: Look at who Wojo was as a player. Personal bias's do exist Merritt. Some guys are just coaches types of guys due to make up. Doesn't mean they are the best option for the position. Posted this before. Travis Diener before the season started commented on EVER player - except Derrick. When asked about Dawson: John's a great athlete that can knock down shots and help us.
When will you finally accept that each staff evaluating Derrick as the best option at the point the past two years indicates he actually was the best option at the point? Christ, you constantly cite your "playing level" and you can't even begin to understand the level these guys are at. Wojo as a McDonald's All-American, the numerous players on the staff, or even Derrick, a starting high-major D1 point guard.
Just because I successfully threw a wadded up piece of paper in the garbage today doesn't mean I know more about shooting than Steve Novak. And in terms of comparative playing and evaluation ability, that's about even to the level you played at to where these guys are. When it comes to basketball, they are smarter than you. And I'm very happy to admit, smarter than me too.
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That would be "False" and "False." (Seriously...drawing conclusions from a pre-season interview with the director of player personnel...) ::)
Buzz was gone as of early January. The relationship between he and admin was shot by that time. It was clear as day to anyone with a shred of intuition that something wasn't right with Buzz last year. And viola - within a days of season ending - he's off to a bottom feeder in the ACC with an amazing contract that he negotiated without the help of an agent. And let's be real - Buzz didn't have a whole lot of nice things to say about MU on his way out the door. This wasn't Crean leaving for a blueblood IU.
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One: Buzz didn't have MU's best interests at heart last season. Period.
Two: Look at who Wojo was as a player. Personal bias's do exist Merritt. Some guys are just coaches types of guys due to make up. Doesn't mean they are the best option for the position. Posted this before. Travis Diener before the season started commented on EVER player - except Derrick. When asked about Dawson: John's a great athlete that can knock down shots and help us.
Clearly, Diener had a different assessment on the player. Player personnel people and coaches in front offices all over the sports world often have disagreements regarding a player's ability.
The problem is, that when your "chosen one" continues to be well below average for his position - and the losses keep mounting - at some point you need to course correct and at very minimum see if you've been taking the wrong approach.
While your reasoning falls on the spectrum somewhere between "far-fetched" and "beyond ridiculous," I appreciate you responding. If that's what you truly believe then so be it.
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One: Buzz didn't have MU's best interests at heart last season. Period.
Two: Look at who Wojo was as a player. Personal bias's do exist Merritt. Some guys are just coaches types of guys due to make up. Doesn't mean they are the best option for the position. Posted this before. Travis Diener before the season started commented on EVER player - except Derrick. When asked about Dawson: John's a great athlete that can knock down shots and help us.
Clearly, Diener had a different assessment on the player. Player personnel people and coaches in front offices all over the sports world often have disagreements regarding a player's ability.
The problem is, that when your "chosen one" continues to be well below average for his position - and the losses keep mounting - at some point you need to course correct and at very minimum see if you've been taking the wrong approach.
Diener didn't comment on Derrick, because it wasn't needed, everyone knew what you get with him. I assure you Diener agrees with Wojo on playing Derrick. Diener thinks Derrick is a great leader, a fighter and plays mistake free basketball. He is needed on the floor.
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Diener didn't comment on Derrick, because it wasn't needed, everyone knew what you get with him. I assure you Diener agrees with Wojo on playing Derrick. Diener thinks Derrick is a great leader, a fighter and plays mistake free basketball. He is needed on the floor.
Have you talked to Travis?
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One: Buzz didn't have MU's best interests at heart last season. Period.
Two: Look at who Wojo was as a player. Personal bias's do exist Merritt. Some guys are just coaches types of guys due to make up. Doesn't mean they are the best option for the position. Posted this before. Travis Diener before the season started commented on EVER player - except Derrick. When asked about Dawson: John's a great athlete that can knock down shots and help us.
Clearly, Diener had a different assessment on the player. Player personnel people and coaches in front offices all over the sports world often have disagreements regarding a player's ability.
The problem is, that when your "chosen one" continues to be well below average for his position - and the losses keep mounting - at some point you need to course correct and at very minimum see if you've been taking the wrong approach.
Just STOP!!
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Just STOP!!
He literally can't. He needs to get help. The kind a 60 day vacation would facilitate.
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He literally can't. He needs to get help. The kind a 60 day vacation would facilitate.
LOL - You seem to have an obsession as well. How many posts about me are you going to make? What's it been - about 15 this week? Maybe you need a 30 day vacation?
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LOL - You seem to have an obsession as well. How many posts about me are you going to make? What's it been - about 15 this week? Maybe you need a 30 day vacation?
You piss in every thread and make the board unreadable. Live up to your own poll and leave.
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You piss in every thread and make the board unreadable. Live up to your own poll and leave.
Spend less time focused on me and more time focused on making a good point here just once every blue moon.
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Please don't "quote" THAT GUY.....ignore works nice except I see the P&M quotes making this board a no-read zone
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IGNORE is great therapy.. ;) But it doesn't help when people box and quote him... ::)
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Dicky Simpkins on Derrick Wilson, quotes during the game telecast.
"The 6'1" guard who plays like he's 6'10"."
"Well, Derrick Wilson is the heart and soul of this team. He leads this team. Everything that happens positive for them is generated off his energy defensively, his strength, his poise,..."
Just another dunce who played in the NBA for parts of seven 7 years, and quite a few years overseas.
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Dicky Simpkins on Derrick Wilson, quotes during the game telecast.
"The 6'1" guard who plays like he's 6'10"."
"Well, Derrick Wilson is the heart and soul of this team. He leads this team. Everything that happens positive for them is generated off his energy defensively, his strength, his poise,..."
Just another dunce who played in the NBA for parts of seven 7 years, and quite a few years overseas.
Yeah, but did he play in high school???
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Yeah, but did he play in high school???
I am sure he tore it up in HS. How else do you become the smartest poster on this board?
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Yeah, but did he play in high school???
Says the guy who sat in the bleachers watching high school games. We can play this game Sultan.
Dicky Simpkins on Derrick Wilson, quotes during the game telecast.
"The 6'1" guard who plays like he's 6'10"."
"Well, Derrick Wilson is the heart and soul of this team. He leads this team. Everything that happens positive for them is generated off his energy defensively, his strength, his poise,..."
Just another dunce who played in the NBA for parts of seven 7 years, and quite a few years overseas.
And in case you didn't know MURS - The MU PR Department went to work hard on Dickie several weeks ago. Magically after never having anything of any consequence to say on DeWilson, magically one game weeks ago Dickie just began to gush profusely to depths and lengths never before even approached. Mission accomplished though - as those less astute observers bit it hook, line and sinker.
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And in case you didn't know MURS - The MU PR Department went to work hard on Dickie several weeks ago. Magically after never having anything of any consequence to say on DeWilson, magically one game weeks ago Dickie just began to gush profusely to depths and lengths never before even approached. Mission accomplished though - as those less astute observers bit it hook, line and sinker.
I suppose that I wouldn't be shocked that this happened, but I'd be interested to know how you heard about it.
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I suppose that I wouldn't be shocked that this happened, but I'd be interested to know how you heard about it.
He didn't. It makes just enough sense that in Ners world it is now gospel truth. Period.
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Yeah, but did he play in high school???
Your pledge to stop responding to Ners did not last very long, Sultan.
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Your pledge to stop responding to Ners did not last very long, Sultan.
Umm, umm, frog legs!
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Your pledge to stop responding to Ners did not last very long, Sultan.
I didn't respond to Ners.
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I didn't respond to Ners.
No you did not, but we all know who the slam was intended for. Don't try to be cute, because it ain't.
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I suppose that I wouldn't be shocked that this happened, but I'd be interested to know how you heard about it.
By listening to Dickie Simpkins call about 25 of our games in the past 2 years and never having much of anything complimentary to say, and then out of the blue, he just couldn't and wouldn't shut up about the player. Use some common sense. Plus the praise is so over the top, it lacks credibility.
The former Villanova coach who rarely calls our games, Lappas, was incredulous watching how Creighton defended the player.
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By listening to Dickie Simpkins call about 25 of our games in the past 2 years and never having much of anything complimentary to say, and then out of the blue, he just couldn't and wouldn't shut up about the player. Use some common sense. Plus the praise is so over the top, it lacks credibility.
The former Villanova coach who rarely calls our games, Lappas, was incredulous watching how Creighton defended the player.
Ners I have a tiger rock I'll sell you....keeps tigers away. Good deal if you are interested
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By listening to Dickie Simpkins call about 25 of our games in the past 2 years and never having much of anything complimentary to say, and then out of the blue, he just couldn't and wouldn't shut up about the player. Use some common sense. Plus the praise is so over the top, it lacks credibility.
The former Villanova coach who rarely calls our games, Lappas, was incredulous watching how Creighton defended the player.
Maybe because Derrick is playing better this season than last season?
Its really never the simple answer for you is it? Always a plot.
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By listening to Dickie Simpkins
That was your first mistake.
The second half was much more pleasant on mute. I think I'll do it every time unless Raff or Donny Marshall has the call.
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Maybe because Derrick is playing better this season than last season?
Its really never the simple answer for you is it? Always a plot.
He is playing better this year. He was absolutely awful last year, this year he's been mediocre to average on his best nights. Great kid and all that other stuff, just not a PG who's going to lead a team anywhere but the bottom of the league standings. For reference, check where we finished last year and currently sit now.
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He is playing better this year. He was absolutely awful last year, this year he's been mediocre to average on his best nights. Great kid and all that other stuff, just not a PG who's going to lead a team anywhere but the bottom of the league standings. For reference, check where we finished last year and currently sit now.
Today, Derrick had a nice first half and even had a quasi dunk. Second half was awful. Same sequence as the SJU game. Juan had a tough game again today as well. Our returning seniors are what they are. Great representatives of MU with undeniable great effort. Just lack great overall skills. That is reflected in the Ws-Ls, unfortunately. They are what they are and there have not been been a lot of immediate and ready alternatives. Enjoy the development of the young guys and move on to next year. I've been following MU for 60 years now. No reason to get down on these kids. They are what they are and the program is in transition. Let's G Warriors.
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Quasi dunk? Is that like a bad assist?
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Quasi dunk? Is that like a bad assist?
The play by play guy called it a trifecta. He got the dunk, the foul, and White got taken out of the game after fouling Derrick.
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By listening to Dickie Simpkins call about 25 of our games in the past 2 years and never having much of anything complimentary to say, and then out of the blue, he just couldn't and wouldn't shut up about the player. Use some common sense. Plus the praise is so over the top, it lacks credibility.
Geez, Simpkins is a bad commentator. What gets me is when he sounds like a 15 year old girl with his "OMG", and "hashtag ..." after a nice play by someone.
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No you did not, but we all know who the slam was intended for. Don't try to be cute, because it ain't.
Pretty sure "did he play in high school" has become Scoop's most common and ridiculous meme.
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Geez, Simpkins is a bad commentator. What gets me is when he sounds like a 15 year old girl with his "OMG", and "hashtag ..." after a nice play by someone.
Hashtag has become the new buzz word for the socially connected wannabes. It means absolutely nothing.
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Hashtag has become the new buzz word for the socially connected wannabes. It means absolutely nothing.
That's exactly what I mean with Simpkins, it's like he's trying to impress the 20 somethings, and he just sounds ridiculous.
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Hashtag has become the new buzz word for the socially connected wannabes. It means absolutely nothing.
#youareold
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Hashtag has become the new buzz word for the socially connected wannabes. It means absolutely nothing.
Actually, it means they don't know what a number sign is.
#1
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nm
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#youareold
And you are ancient.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57dzaMaouXA
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Today, Derrick had a nice first half and even had a quasi dunk. Second half was awful. Same sequence as the SJU game. Juan had a tough game again today as well. Our returning seniors are what they are. Great representatives of MU with undeniable great effort. Just lack great overall skills. That is reflected in the Ws-Ls, unfortunately. They are what they are and there have not been been a lot of immediate and ready alternatives. Enjoy the development of the young guys and move on to next year. I've been following MU for 60 years now. No reason to get down on these kids. They are what they are and the program is in transition. Let's G Warriors.
I not sure why you thought the second half was worse than the first. I believe he made two layups in the second half. Derrick also often was guarding the big center. The guy sitting behind me said he thought that Derrick look like an ankle bitter guarding Smith. A 6-2 215 pound player having to guard a 6-10 350lb player is going to take a toll on the rest of his game. It was too bad that Smith became ineligible last year, because I really wanted to see a matchup between him and Gardner.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57dzaMaouXA
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Awesome!
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Seriously, we need to start winning some games just to avoid being assigned the D team. Other than Donny Marshall, the announcers we've had lately are terrible.
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That's exactly what I mean with Simpkins, it's like he's trying to impress the 20 somethings, and he just sounds ridiculous.
I enjoy it when Simpkins covers our games. He takes the time to understand our kids.
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I enjoy it when Simpkins covers our games. He takes the time to understand our kids.
You're going to have to walk me through what that second sentence is supposed to mean?
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Geez, Simpkins is a bad commentator. What gets me is when he sounds like a 15 year old girl with his "OMG", and "hashtag ..." after a nice play by someone.
C,mon man--he was giving Derrick the love.
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Don't know who said it here during the Georgetown game, but it is more convincing then ever that Duane is a shooting guard, not a point guard.
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Don't know who said it here during the Georgetown game, but it is more convincing then ever that Duane is a shooting guard, not a point guard.
LOL - Just because you want and support a PG that cannot hit the broad side of a barn, does not mean a PG shouldn't be a good shooter and threat from all over the floor.
Duane created a number of his looks by himself as it was - and furthermore if you had a clue, once the ball is in the half court set, all guards handle the ball and spend time playing off the ball.
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LOL - Just because you want and support a PG that cannot hit the broad side of a barn, does not mean a PG shouldn't be a good shooter and threat from all over the floor.
Duane created a number of his looks by himself as it was - and furthermore if you had a clue, once the ball is in the half court set, all guards handle the ball and spend time playing off the ball.
Exactly! Guy hits multiple 3's and apparently that disqualifies him from running the point at MU in some people's eyes. I guess we should just look for the reincarnation of Derrick when he graduates and all will be well!
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Exactly! Guy hits multiple 3's and apparently that disqualifies him from running the point at MU in some people's eyes. I guess we should just look for the reincarnation of Derrick when he graduates and all will be well!
Now come on. About 65% of the people in the poll have spoken. Derrick should be the starting PG--not Duane. Everything is great in a democracy and the people have spoken. We should not give the keys to Duane now to see how he performs at PG. Don't worry--be happy. Preparing for the future is not necessary The people believe that 6 points a game and 10-9 are the way to roll.
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Don't know who said it here during the Georgetown game, but it is more convincing then ever that Duane is a shooting guard, not a point guard.
Not necessarily true my friend.
Just because you can hit shots does not mean that you cannot create for others and distribute. Bucks fans say the same thing about Brandon Knight...
You need to re-examine the PG position in today's game. It is not your traditional cookie cutter version of what we used to perceive a PG to be per se.
Even Travis Diener could shoot and hit 3's. Does that mean he was not a point guard?
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Not necessarily true my friend.
Just because you can hit shots does not mean that you cannot create for others and distribute. Bucks fans say the same thing about Brandon Knight...
You need to re-examine the PG position in today's game. It is not your traditional cookie cutter version of what we used to perceive a PG to be per se.
Even Travis Diener could shoot and hit 3's. Does that mean he was not a point guard?
I think his point was that Duane was at his best when he was running off screens and getting set up by others. PGs don't usually get that luxury. However, I agree, I think Duane, with a full offseason of practice, could be a fantastic PG.
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Face it.. Duane isn't going to get the PG spot over our two resident Senior PG's. This season still has life and college sports aren't like major sports. You don't "rebuild" and simultaneously cast out your senior captains. But I do think Duane will/could be our PG. Watched him at Dominican and he is great at it. Right now on this team he is our undisputed second offensive option. So it's better to have Derrick facilitate our only two guards who can make things happen.
Next year the offensive dynamic and scheme will likely be completely different. But for now Derrick is our point and after him it's Carlino. Wojo believes in rewarding the guys with experience and I honestly have no problem with that.
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If Duane were a cat, he'd groom himself!
Seriously, given everything we know right this second, Duane is next season's PG. There are no other options.
There is no reason he can't continue to be used how he is being used this season, though. He gets a few opportunities to run the point, more opportunities to play off the ball and plenty of time on the court. That, combined with all the work he'll do during the offseason, will be plenty of preparation for him.
I have no problem with the way Wojo is using him -- or Derrick. I have not been the biggest fan of Derrick's game, but I think his strengths have helped the team more than his liabilities have hurt it this season.
We can't use his shooting percentage to hammer him last year and then conveniently avoid mentioning that it is better than Carlino's, Duane's, Jajuan's and Taylor's this season -- and that even his 3-point percentage is better than Jajuan's.
I still think Derrick plays too many minutes, but, in context, his court time is not as outrageous as it was last season because he is more of a contributor this season.
Besides, coaches simply do not throw their senior captains to the curb. So a former high school player demanding 8 bazillion times that's what Wojo should do is unrealistic.
I mean, I can keep saying Jessica Alba should be my sex toy, but suggesting that's what Jessica is going to do is unrealistic.
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I think Duane Wilson will be a solid PG, but an even better SG. And if you look at Duke, they have a history of using 2 PG together. This year it's Tyus Jones & Quinn Cook but you can go all the way back to Jason Williams & Chris Duhon. And all the guards have PG responsibilities in transition. Think of the three amigos as seniors. Anyone of them could grab a rebound, make a steal, or come up with a loose ball and dribble up court as the PG in transition. I think that's what Wojo wants his teams to be able to do.
Conventional thinking is that whoever gets the inbounds pass after 95% of made baskets and dribbles across half-court or resets the offense is "the PG" but I think Wojo wants all of his guards to be able to score and have some PG responsibilities.
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I think Duane Wilson will be a solid PG, but an even better SG. And if you look at Duke, they have a history of using 2 PG together. This year it's Tyus Jones & Quinn Cook but you can go all the way back to Jason Williams & Chris Duhon. And all the guards have PG responsibilities in transition. Think of the three amigos as seniors. Anyone of them could grab a rebound, make a steal, or come up with a loose ball and dribble up court as the PG in transition. I think that's what Wojo wants his teams to be able to do.
Conventional thinking is that whoever gets the inbounds pass after 95% of made baskets and dribbles across half-court or resets the offense is "the PG" but I think Wojo wants all of his guards to be able to score and have some PG responsibilities.
Great examples with Wojo's experiences at Duke and reasonable projections for his plans at Marquette.
Unless you have an elite PG -- which we haven't had since Diener, and some might not even bestow "elite" status on him (though I do) -- folks are too into trying to assign labels.
In our Elite 8 year, it was often Junior's job to hand the ball to Vander and get out of the way.
And go ahead, name the Bulls' PG during either of their threepeats.
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And go ahead, name the Bulls' PG during either of their threepeats.
John Paxson for the first, Ron Harper for the second, with BJ Armstrong getting some good minutes.
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And go ahead, name the Bulls' PG during either of their threepeats.
Good point. I mean, if Marquette had the greatest player in college basketball history, a top 25 all-time player as well as the greatest coach in college basketball history, then the PG position would be less important.
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John Paxson for the first, Ron Harper for the second, with BJ Armstrong getting some good minutes.
And that's 82's point. Paxson, Harper, BJ and Steve Kerr were called point guards, but they were really shooting or combo guards. Pippen and Jordan dominated the ball.
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Great examples with Wojo's experiences at Duke and reasonable projections for his plans at Marquette.
Unless you have an elite PG -- which we haven't had since Diener, and some might not even bestow "elite" status on him (though I do) -- folks are too into trying to assign labels.
In our Elite 8 year, it was often Junior's job to hand the ball to Vander and get out of the way.
And go ahead, name the Bulls' PG during either of their threepeats.
I think Dominic James would be considered an elite level collegiate PG. Had he not fractured his foot, MU had a real chance to go to the Final 4 his senior season.
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I think Dominic James would be considered an elite level collegiate PG. Had he not fractured his foot, MU had a real chance to go to the Final 4 his senior season.
Fair enough. How quickly I forget!
Dom wasn't an elite shooter, nor really an elite scorer, but he made those around him better for sure.
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Good point. I mean, if Marquette had the greatest player in college basketball history, a top 25 all-time player as well as the greatest coach in college basketball history, then the PG position would be less important.
No need to get snarky. It was just an example of how teams need not necessarily settle on labeled positions. As the poster who talked about Duke's recent backcourts explained.
Unless we recruit a JUCO or grad student, we probably will have a combo of Duane, Cohen, Cheatham, NN (if applicable), etc, on the court, with each taking turns dominating the ball and playing off it. And absent a true stud PG, that probably would be a good thing.
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If Duane were a cat, he'd groom himself!
Seriously, given everything we know right this second, Duane is next season's PG. There are no other options.
There is no reason he can't continue to be used how he is being used this season, though. He gets a few opportunities to run the point, more opportunities to play off the ball and plenty of time on the court. That, combined with all the work he'll do during the offseason, will be plenty of preparation for him.
I have no problem with the way Wojo is using him -- or Derrick. I have not been the biggest fan of Derrick's game, but I think his strengths have helped the team more than his liabilities have hurt it this season.
We can't use his shooting percentage to hammer him last year and then conveniently avoid mentioning that it is better than Carlino's, Duane's, Jajuan's and Taylor's this season -- and that even his 3-point percentage is better than Jajuan's.
I still think Derrick plays too many minutes, but, in context, his court time is not as outrageous as it was last season because he is more of a contributor this season.
Besides, coaches simply do not throw their senior captains to the curb. So a former high school player demanding 8 bazillion times that's what Wojo should do is unrealistic.
I mean, I can keep saying Jessica Alba should be my sex toy, but suggesting that's what Jessica is going to do is unrealistic.
Jessica probably got one look at your wallet and your Johnson and said, "thanks,but no thanks," aina?
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No need to get snarky. It was just an example of how teams need not necessarily settle on labeled positions. As the poster who talked about Duke's recent backcourts explained.
Unless we recruit a JUCO or grad student, we probably will have a combo of Duane, Cohen, Cheatham, NN (if applicable), etc, on the court, with each taking turns dominating the ball and playing off it. And absent a true stud PG, that probably would be a good thing.
My apologies. In re-reading the thread more closely, I actually think that we have a similar viewpoint. I misunderstood the context of your comment.
True. The Bulls didn't really have a true PG, let alone an "elite" PG, when they were winning championships. Paxson was a combo guard and Harper was a SG given the PG label. The recent Heat teams also fit this model since I don't think anyone would say that Mario Chalmers "ran the offense." Even recently at MU, they weren't clearing out for the PG and letting him make a play in crunch time. The ball was going to Novak, McNeal, Butler, DJO, Crowder, Blue, etc.
Too many fans still have this idea of basketball players falling neatly into positions PG, SG, SF, PF and C (or 1-5). It doesn't work that way anymore. Sure, it's great to have a Chris Paul and/or a Dwight Howard fill a specific role, but for the most part, players need to have a number of different skills because quite frankly, there just aren't that many Pauls and Howards around. One could even argue that having 4-5 guys on a team who can handle the ball is more valuable than having one dynamic playmaker.
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I've always been a fan of the dynamic point guard, if that's the right word. Makes plays, might turn it over a bit, but can score and assists are due to driving or garnering significant attention from the defense. The type Crean always tries to have. Buzz seemed to be more of a fan of a facilitator - low turnovers, takes what they're given when it comes to scoring, distributes the ball to the more dynamic wings within the offensive scheme. Wojo doesn't really get to choose this year when he's got to fill 200 minutes with eight players, most who have limited experience. If he wants two of the former who are just "guards", he'll get there, but he doesn't have the horses yet.
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And that's 82's point. Paxson, Harper, BJ and Steve Kerr were called point guards, but they were really shooting or combo guards. Pippen and Jordan dominated the ball.
I thought the point was more that they were anonymous. Paxson and BJ were definitely point guards. When MJ retired the first time, BJ started the all-star game at the point the next year. They may not have been prolific point guards because of how Pippen and Jordan dominated the ball, but those two were points. Harper, agreed, a combo guard, and Kerr on that team was really just a three-point shooter off the bench.
While they may have been anonymous to non-Bulls fans, I remember them all pretty vividly, though Paxson definitely stands out for that shot in the desert to capture the third title against Phoenix.
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If Duane were a cat, he'd groom himself!
Is that the feline equivalent of, "If Duane were a dog, he'd lick his package?"
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If Duane were a cat, he'd groom himself!
Seriously, given everything we know right this second, Duane is next season's PG. There are no other options.
There is no reason he can't continue to be used how he is being used this season, though. He gets a few opportunities to run the point, more opportunities to play off the ball and plenty of time on the court. That, combined with all the work he'll do during the offseason, will be plenty of preparation for him.
I have no problem with the way Wojo is using him -- or Derrick. I have not been the biggest fan of Derrick's game, but I think his strengths have helped the team more than his liabilities have hurt it this season.
We can't use his shooting percentage to hammer him last year and then conveniently avoid mentioning that it is better than Carlino's, Duane's, Jajuan's and Taylor's this season -- and that even his 3-point percentage is better than Jajuan's.
I still think Derrick plays too many minutes, but, in context, his court time is not as outrageous as it was last season because he is more of a contributor this season.
Besides, coaches simply do not throw their senior captains to the curb. So a former high school player demanding 8 bazillion times that's what Wojo should do is unrealistic.
I mean, I can keep saying Jessica Alba should be my sex toy, but suggesting that's what Jessica is going to do is unrealistic.
I can agree with the above statement. It isn't nearly as atrocious as it was last season. However, the team desperately needs a 3rd scorer, and everyone knows that won't be Steve, Juan, or evidently Luke against Big East caliber centers - so who does that leave?? JJJ and Cohen.
You can't remove Duane or Carlino. So which guards minutes can you cut in the hopes to get a 3rd scorer on the floor?
Again, if we are winning games, no argument. But, we aren't. We are losing close games. The zone mitigates Derrick's best trait - which would be being a solid on ball defender. The length of JJJ and Sandy would be very beneficial to our zone.
Wojo's insistence to play Derrick 34 minutes a game is where I continue to have a beef. Not allocating 15-20 of those minutes to Cohen and JJJ is where I absolutely disagree.
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I think Duane Wilson will be a solid PG, but an even better SG. And if you look at Duke, they have a history of using 2 PG together. This year it's Tyus Jones & Quinn Cook but you can go all the way back to Jason Williams & Chris Duhon. And all the guards have PG responsibilities in transition. Think of the three amigos as seniors. Anyone of them could grab a rebound, make a steal, or come up with a loose ball and dribble up court as the PG in transition. I think that's what Wojo wants his teams to be able to do.
Conventional thinking is that whoever gets the inbounds pass after 95% of made baskets and dribbles across half-court or resets the offense is "the PG" but I think Wojo wants all of his guards to be able to score and have some PG responsibilities.
That's a good point and one I hadn't considered.
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Unless we recruit a JUCO or grad student, we probably will have a combo of Duane, Cohen, Cheatham, NN (if applicable), etc, on the court, with each taking turns dominating the ball and playing off it. And absent a true stud PG, that probably would be a good thing.
I think Duane Wilson will be a solid PG, but an even better SG. And if you look at Duke, they have a history of using 2 PG together. This year it's Tyus Jones & Quinn Cook but you can go all the way back to Jason Williams & Chris Duhon. And all the guards have PG responsibilities in transition. Think of the three amigos as seniors. Anyone of them could grab a rebound, make a steal, or come up with a loose ball and dribble up court as the PG in transition. I think that's what Wojo wants his teams to be able to do.
Conventional thinking is that whoever gets the inbounds pass after 95% of made baskets and dribbles across half-court or resets the offense is "the PG" but I think Wojo wants all of his guards to be able to score and have some PG responsibilities.
Exactly. This isn't Buzz's offense, where you had a point, a post and three switchables.
You can see it in the way they play now. Derrick brings it up, but he doesn't always initiate the offense. Oftentimes it's Carlino. Sometimes it's Duane.
People can't get hung up on who will be *the* point guard. We are likely looking at multiple players with point guard skills. And also, please don't try to fit these guys into "traditional" 1-5 positions.
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Face it.. Duane isn't going to get the PG spot over our two resident Senior PG's. This season still has life and college sports aren't like major sports. You don't "rebuild" and simultaneously cast out your senior captains. But I do think Duane will/could be our PG. Watched him at Dominican and he is great at it. Right now on this team he is our undisputed second offensive option. So it's better to have Derrick facilitate our only two guards who can make things happen.
Next year the offensive dynamic and scheme will likely be completely different. But for now Derrick is our point and after him it's Carlino. Wojo believes in rewarding the guys with experience and I honestly have no problem with that.
Please don't forget about Luke. Restoring offensive balance is the only way to improve our results in Big East play.
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Please don't forget about Luke. Restoring offensive balance is the only way to improve our results in Big East play.
I'm one of the few on here who still is high on Luke. The problem with him is that he gets doubled so quickly. He seems afraid to put it on the floor and do post moves. And when he is wide open he is hesitant. He will figure it out but right now most of his offense comes off of misses and drive and dishes by the guards.
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Great examples with Wojo's experiences at Duke and reasonable projections for his plans at Marquette.
Unless you have an elite PG -- which we haven't had since Diener, and some might not even bestow "elite" status on him (though I do) -- folks are too into trying to assign labels.
In our Elite 8 year, it was often Junior's job to hand the ball to Vander and get out of the way.
And go ahead, name the Bulls' PG during either of their threepeats.
John Paxson for the first three peat, Steve Kerr for the second, although many would say everything ran through Pippen as the point forward. Does the triangle offense even require a point guard?
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I can agree with the above statement. It isn't nearly as atrocious as it was last season. However, the team desperately needs a 3rd scorer, and everyone knows that won't be Steve, Juan, or evidently Luke against Big East caliber centers - so who does that leave?? JJJ and Cohen.
You can't remove Duane or Carlino. So which guards minutes can you cut in the hopes to get a 3rd scorer on the floor?
Again, if we are winning games, no argument. But, we aren't. We are losing close games. The zone mitigates Derrick's best trait - which would be being a solid on ball defender. The length of JJJ and Sandy would be very beneficial to our zone.
Wojo's insistence to play Derrick 34 minutes a game is where I continue to have a beef. Not allocating 15-20 of those minutes to Cohen and JJJ is where I absolutely disagree.
I'm not sure why you feel qualified to talk about Big East centers. Did you play against Big East centers in high school? 8-)
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I'm one of the few on here who still is high on Luke. The problem with him is that he gets doubled so quickly. He seems afraid to put it on the floor and do post moves. And when he is wide open he is hesitant. He will figure it out but right now most of his offense comes off of misses and drive and dishes by the guards.
I think Luke will be fine. Every Big East team has players as big as he is, most are more athletic. He has a bum shoulder. He has no help down low. Teams are game planning for him. He is getting hit with a whole lot of challenges all at once. This is the year to learn.
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I'm one of the few on here who still is high on Luke. The problem with him is that he gets doubled so quickly. He seems afraid to put it on the floor and do post moves. And when he is wide open he is hesitant. He will figure it out but right now most of his offense comes off of misses and drive and dishes by the guards.
I expect Luke to have a fine last two seasons at Marquette.
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I'm one of the few on here who still is high on Luke. The problem with him is that he gets doubled so quickly. He seems afraid to put it on the floor and do post moves. And when he is wide open he is hesitant. He will figure it out but right now most of his offense comes off of misses and drive and dishes by the guards.
You are absolutely right. He needs to learn to kick it back out, because we do have a couple of three point shooters (and no, I don't mean Juan). Until the last game I had not seen him do that. Of course, he probably figures that if he kicks it back out to Carlino, he will not see it come back again.
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You are absolutely right. He needs to learn to kick it back out, because we do have a couple of three point shooters (and no, I don't mean Juan). Until the last game I had not seen him do that. Of course, he probably figures that if he kicks it back out to Carlino, he will not see it come back again.
Willie, you were doing so good with your Kate Upton comment. I like that willie.