MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: VegasWarrior77 on December 20, 2014, 06:03:08 PM
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Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein 1m1 minute ago
BREAKING --- Marquette transfer Deonte Burton has committed to Iowa State, sources told @CBSSports. Story coming.
Alex Halsted @AlexHalsted 3h3 hours ago
Deonte Burton, who is on his visit to Iowa State this weekend, is at Wells Fargo Arena for today's game vs. Drake. #Cyclones
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I wish him success.
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12058558/iowa-state-cyclones-land-marquette-golden-eagles-transfer-deonte-burton?src=mobile&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FYdM5zLErvu%22%7D
Saturday, December 20, 2014
Iowa State lands Deonte Burton
By Jeff Borzello
ESPN.com
Iowa State has struck again in the transfer market.
The Cyclones have landed a commitment from Marquette transfer Deonte Burton, sources told ESPN. Burton chose Iowa State over UCLA.
Burton, a 6-foot-4 forward, was averaging 6.1 points and 1.4 rebounds through nine games before deciding to leave school earlier this month. Because Iowa State has no scholarships this season, Burton will have to pay his own way for the spring semester.
He will become eligible after the first semester next season and will have one and a half years remaining. However, he will apply for a waiver to get this year back due to his mother passing away back in October.
Fred Hoiberg has brought in a number of transfers since taking over at Iowa State. UNLV transfer Bryce Dejean-Jones is second on the team in scoring, while Abdel Nader (Northern Illinois) is also contributing.
Another Marquette transfer, Jameel McKay, made his debut Saturday for the Cyclones. Hallice Cooke (Oregon State) is sitting out this season.
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He has to pay his way in the spring a la McKay.
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Iowa state is the land of misfit toys, but it seems to work for them,
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Maybe with Matt Thomas playing a greatly reduced role this year at some point the favor will be returned.
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Iowa state is the land of misfit toys, but it seems to work for them,
It's a pretty ingenious niche. Midwestern kids who get in trouble (or just are in bad places in life) looking for a high major landing place. And Hoiberg can coach too.
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I wish him success.
Likewise
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Maybe with Matt Thomas playing a greatly reduced role this year at some point the favor will be returned.
You think he's good enough? I wonder if he would be better off somewhere in the Missouri Valley.
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You think he's good enough? I wonder if he would be better off somewhere in the Missouri Valley.
Yeah, I don't think we need a slightly more talent Thomas.
We need a guy who can play the 3 with some length. Not another back court guy.
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Fair question. Based on who was recruiting him, I'd guess he'd end up at a high major if he moved on. And let me say I have absolutely zero information that he's even considering moving on. Just an initial reaction with an Iowa State mention and a player from the state.
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Iowa state is good. They go to the final 4 this year.
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Iowa state is good. They go to the final 4 this year.
No they don't.
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No they don't.
They definitely are good enough
But I am not guaranteeing that lol
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Happy for Deonte. Seems like a good fit and not too far from home. Hopefully he can continue to make good progress in the classroom while he sits out. Will be interesting to see if the NCAA grants his waiver request.
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Well, wasn't he reportedly down to UCLA and IA State? Looks like he made a good call after the beat down UCLA took today. I think Alabama A & M could have done what they did. What was Kevon Looney thinking when he could have gone anywhere in the country?
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Well, wasn't he reportedly down to UCLA and IA State? Looks like he made a good call after the beat down UCLA took today. I think Alabama A & M could have done what they did. What was Kevon Looney thinking when he could have gone anywhere in the country?
I'm guessing, without inside information, that he was thinking I'm living in Westwood for one year and picking out the best looking girls at UCLA for one year before getting paid. His experience could certainly be much worse.
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I'm guessing, without inside information, that he was thinking I'm living in Westwood for one year and picking out the best looking girls at UCLA for one year before getting paid. His experience could certainly be much worse.
Yes, I have no doubt weather and girls are always at the top of the list of reasons any kid looks seriously at UCLA. Especially with Steve Alford leading the way there now. He's good at the mid-major level, period.
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I'm guessing, without inside information, that he was thinking I'm living in Westwood for one year and picking out the best looking girls at UCLA for one year before getting paid. His experience could certainly be much worse.
By the way, Deonte getting paid by whom? Please don't say that was meant to imply the NBA?!
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You asked the question.
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By the way, Deonte getting paid by whom? Please don't say that was meant to imply the NBA?!
That was in reference to Looney I think. They combined to concepts in the same series of statements.
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That was in reference to Looney I think. They combined to concepts in the same series of statements.
You're right, I misinterpreted that post.
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Will be interesting to see if the NCAA grants his waiver request.
Huh? What could he get a waiver for?
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Huh? What could he get a waiver for?
To start at the beginning of next year rather than missing the start of the season. Currently he only has 1.5 years of eligibility. He's pleading the case about his mother, which the NCAA might be okay with since he missed a considerable amount of practice after the event.
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To start at the beginning of next year rather than missing the start of the season. Currently he only has 1.5 years of eligibility. He's pleading the case about his mother, which the NCAA might be okay with since he missed a considerable amount of practice after the event.
What role do you think Wojo might play in any appeal Burton makes to the NCAA? Does he need to "testify" about the struggles that Burton's loss had on his ability to practice and play? Basically, does he need to support Burton's request? Any idea whether he would?
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Some clown Iowa St. fans on Twitter now saying since they got McKay and Burton that they'll end up with Henry next. Needed that laugh ;D
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What role do you think Wojo might play in any appeal Burton makes to the NCAA? Does he need to "testify" about the struggles that Burton's loss had on his ability to practice and play? Basically, does he need to support Burton's request? Any idea whether he would?
Until this, I've never heard about practice or playing being an issue for him. He played in every one of MU's games before his transfer. And the amount he played sure seemed to be based solely on coaches decision. Wojo mentioned nothing of the sort when he announced he was transferring, neither did Deonte. And I find it truly impossible to believe if there was such an issue, Wojo would be that insensitive as to say nothing.
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I wish him success.
Best of luck, Deonte. Hope Iowa State and a new start brings great things.
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Until this, I've never heard about practice or playing being an issue for him. He played in every one of MU's games before his transfer. And the amount he played sure seemed to be based solely on coaches decision. Wojo mentioned nothing of the sort when he announced he was transferring, neither did Deonte. And I find it truly impossible to believe if there was such an issue, Wojo would be that insensitive as to say nothing.
That's sort of why I was wondering what Wojo might do. I agree with you that his playing time and participation seem to indicate that he was coping with his mother's death. I recall hearing that he missed some practice time (was it even before official practices began?). So, there is a sort of ethical question here: If Deonte tries to get some of his eligibility back, but Wojo doesn't necessarily support the argument that Deonte was so impacted, does Wojo endorse Deonte's request, or does he not?
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That's sort of why I was wondering what Wojo might do. I agree with you that his playing time and participation seem to indicate that he was coping with his mother's death. I recall hearing that he missed some practice time (was it even before official practices began?). So, there is a sort of ethical question here: If Deonte tries to get some of his eligibility back, but Wojo doesn't necessarily support the argument that Deonte was so impacted, does Wojo endorse Deonte's request, or does he not?
I don't think this is a real issue. It's solely up to the NCAA to decide.
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I don't think this is a real issue. It's solely up to the NCAA to decide.
But does the NCAA contact the former school and coaches (MU and Wojo in this case) to gather information to make a decision? If so, wouldn't they ask if and how Deonte was impacted by his mother's death, in terms of missing practices and the like? And, if so, how might Wojo respond?
I don't mean to overly dwell on this, but I'm sincerely curious.
And, I also wish Deonte all the best, in b-ball and life.
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12058558/iowa-state-cyclones-land-marquette-golden-eagles-transfer-deonte-burton?src=mobile&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FYdM5zLErvu%22%7D
Saturday, December 20, 2014
Iowa State lands Deonte Burton
By Jeff Borzello
ESPN.com
Iowa State has struck again in the transfer market.
The Cyclones have landed a commitment from Marquette transfer Deonte Burton, sources told ESPN. Burton chose Iowa State over UCLA.
Burton, a 6-foot-4 forward, was averaging 6.1 points and 1.4 rebounds through nine games before deciding to leave school earlier this month. Because Iowa State has no scholarships this season, Burton will have to pay his own way for the spring semester.
He will become eligible after the first semester next season and will have one and a half years remaining. However, he will apply for a waiver to get this year back due to his mother passing away back in October.
Fred Hoiberg has brought in a number of transfers since taking over at Iowa State. UNLV transfer Bryce Dejean-Jones is second on the team in scoring, while Abdel Nader (Northern Illinois) is also contributing.
Another Marquette transfer, Jameel McKay, made his debut Saturday for the Cyclones. Hallice Cooke (Oregon State) is sitting out this season.
Look at all those transfers.
Seems squirmy!
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To start at the beginning of next year rather than missing the start of the season. Currently he only has 1.5 years of eligibility. He's pleading the case about his mother, which the NCAA might be okay with since he missed a considerable amount of practice after the event.
I can't see the NCAA giving him a waiver, he played in games and practiced this year. I think he's reaching and will ultimately be turned down. More power to him if it goes through. I find it more interesting that he's supposedly going to pay his own way for the rest of the year.
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Filing waivers with the NCAA is pretty routine these days. They are really inconsistent in their application so there is really nothing to lose. McKay applied for one. Fischer contemplated it but ultimately decided not to.
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I can't see the NCAA giving him a waiver, he played in games and practiced this year. I think he's reaching and will ultimately be turned down. More power to him if it goes through. I find it more interesting that he's supposedly going to pay his own way for the rest of the year.
Seems that Dawson has a better argument for a waiver, he played 4 minutes in the first game and never again.
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Filing waivers with the NCAA is pretty routine these days. They are really inconsistent in their application so there is really nothing to lose. McKay applied for one. Fischer contemplated it but ultimately decided not to.
I would think Fischer's case for a waiver would be every bit as strong as Deonte's, as he moved CLOSER to home to combat homesickness and escape from a toxic situation at IU.
I don't see the grounds for the NCAA to approve Burton's waiver. Normally they are granted for moving CLOSER to an ill relative, not FURTHER from the area where a relative has passed. Anyway, I hope he gets it and finds happiness.
For the life of me I don't understand the transfer rule anyway. If you transfer after the year, you lose NO eligibility after sitting out 1 year. As you still have 5 years to play 4. But, if you transfer mid year and play the following year at the end of first semester, you essentially lose a full year of eligibility. First semester of last year + Second semester of this year should = 1 year of eligibility, not 2. Makes no sense to me and never will!
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I would think Fischer's case for a waiver would be every bit as strong as Deonte's, as he moved CLOSER to home to combat homesickness and escape from a toxic situation at IU.
I don't see the grounds for the NCAA to approve Burton's waiver. Normally they are granted for moving CLOSER to an ill relative, not FURTHER from the area where a relative has passed. Anyway, I hope he gets it and finds happiness.
For the life of me I don't understand the transfer rule anyway. If you transfer after the year, you lose NO eligibility after sitting out 1 year. As you still have 5 years to play 4. But, if you transfer mid year and play the following year at the end of first semester, you essentially lose a full year of eligibility. First semester of last year + Second semester of this year should = 1 year of eligibility, not 2. Makes no sense to me and never will!Also, the NCAA now does not allow immediate eligibility for "hardship" transfers:
www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/04/ncaa_says_no_more_immediate-el.html (http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/04/ncaa_says_no_more_immediate-el.html)
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Filing waivers with the NCAA is pretty routine these days. They are really inconsistent in their application so there is really nothing to lose. McKay applied for one. Fischer contemplated it but ultimately decided not to.
I root for all transfers like these to get waivers, including Burton and Dawson.
The system is already rigged against "student-athletes," so any time any of them can wring any concessions from the system, I'm all for it.
One thing we know is that coaches, athletic directors, university presidents, conference commissioners and NCAA honchos don't need "waivers" to bolt from one job to another pretty much whenever they want to. Even multi-year, multi-million-dollar contracts are meaningless, and they never have to sit out a year.
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To start at the beginning of next year rather than missing the start of the season. Currently he only has 1.5 years of eligibility. He's pleading the case about his mother, which the NCAA might be okay with since he missed a considerable amount of practice after the event.
I like Hoiberg, but I cannot help thinking that he is making promisses he can't succeed in. He appealed McKay having to sit out first semester. It makes me think he is telling players he will get them the year back by appealing. I could see the appeal working, if Burton never played, but he was playing enough to average 6 points.
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I would think Fischer's case for a waiver would be every bit as strong as Deonte's, as he moved CLOSER to home to combat homesickness and escape from a toxic situation at IU.
I don't see the grounds for the NCAA to approve Burton's waiver. Normally they are granted for moving CLOSER to an ill relative, not FURTHER from the area where a relative has passed. Anyway, I hope he gets it and finds happiness.
For the life of me I don't understand the transfer rule anyway. If you transfer after the year, you lose NO eligibility after sitting out 1 year. As you still have 5 years to play 4. But, if you transfer mid year and play the following year at the end of first semester, you essentially lose a full year of eligibility. First semester of last year + Second semester of this year should = 1 year of eligibility, not 2. Makes no sense to me and never will!
It's very simple. Eligibility and redshirts aren't split between years.
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I root for all transfers like these to get waivers, including Burton and Dawson.
The system is already rigged against "student-athletes," so any time any of them can wring any concessions from the system, I'm all for it.
One thing we know is that coaches, athletic directors, university presidents, conference commissioners and NCAA honchos don't need "waivers" to bolt from one job to another pretty much whenever they want to. Even multi-year, multi-million-dollar contracts are meaningless, and they never have to sit out a year.
My rule would be that all players get one "free" transfer without sitting. The second requires you sit a year with no exceptions.
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Look at all those transfers.
Seems squirmy!
Any canine regurgitation?
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My rule would be that all players get one "free" transfer without sitting. The second requires you sit a year with no exceptions.
Nah. Tampering becomes a huge issue. And, those " advisors" become an even biggerproblem
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My rule would be that all players get one "free" transfer without sitting. The second requires you sit a year with no exceptions.
I feel we would see a lot of teams take the Iowa State approach. The top teams would still go after the 5 stars, but I feel teams will recruit the mid-majors and lower high-majors pretty hard. Kind of how Buzz used Jucos. They were further in development and experience, so they were more ready to compete right away.
Although, I don't really have an alternative to suggest. Every scenario has some negatives.
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Deonte who?
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I feel we would see a lot of teams take the Iowa State approach. The top teams would still go after the 5 stars, but I feel teams will recruit the mid-majors and lower high-majors pretty hard. Kind of how Buzz used Jucos. They were further in development and experience, so they were more ready to compete right away.
Although, I don't really have an alternative to suggest. Every scenario has some negatives.
You could curb that a bit with a usage rule based on minutes played. Any player that played under "x" minutes per game is free to play right away. No reason Dawson should have to sit.
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Nah. Tampering becomes a huge issue. And, those " advisors" become an even biggerproblem
I really don't care about either of these issues. Kids should be able to play immediately. (I wouldn't allow mid-year transfers to be immediately eligible however.)
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Deonte applying for waiver makes the story make a little more sense for me. I am sure someone told him that he could get a waiver for sure, so transferring now was in his best interest.
I hope that advice doesn't bite him in the ass.
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I really don't care about either of these issues. Kids should be able to play immediately. (I wouldn't allow mid-year transfers to be immediately eligible however.)
The tampering issue is obviously why the one year rule is there in the first place as voted on by the schools years ago. Otherwise the inmates would be running the asylum. As long as everybody knows the rule ahead of time, all is fair with allowable exceptions for unusual circumstances (which the NCAA has been granting and/or most schools are accommodating for).
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For the life of me I don't understand the transfer rule anyway. If you transfer after the year, you lose NO eligibility after sitting out 1 year. As you still have 5 years to play 4. But, if you transfer mid year and play the following year at the end of first semester, you essentially lose a full year of eligibility. First semester of last year + Second semester of this year should = 1 year of eligibility, not 2. Makes no sense to me and never will!
Burton doesn't "lose" a year of eligibility. He only has four, and he's using them all. Its his choice not to use them in the most efficient manner.
Look at how he uses his eligibilty:
2013-14: Eligible at MU
2014-15: Eligible at MU (by virtue of playing 1st semester)
2015-16: Eligible at ISU (by virtue of playing 2nd semester)
2016-17: Eligible at ISU
Four seasons of eligibility used--zero lost.
If he wanted to have more playing time at ISU, he could have done this:
2013-14: Uses Eligible year at MU
2014-15: Uses Eligible year at MU (by virtue of playing 1st semester)
2015-16: Sits out full season
2016-17: Uses Eligible at ISU (Plays full year)
2017-18: Uses Eligible at ISU (Plays full year)
This approach also uses his four years of eligibility, but spreads it across five years, which maximizes his playing time.
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Burton doesn't "lose" a year of eligibility. He only has four, and he's using them all. Its his choice not to use them in the most efficient manner.
Look at how he uses his eligibilty:
2013-14: Eligible at MU
2014-15: Eligible at MU (by virtue of playing 1st semester)
2015-16: Eligible at ISU (by virtue of playing 2nd semester)
2016-17: Eligible at ISU
Four seasons of eligibility used--zero lost.
If he wanted to have more playing time at ISU, he could have done this:
2013-14: Uses Eligible year at MU
2014-15: Uses Eligible year at MU (by virtue of playing 1st semester)
2015-16: Sits out full season
2016-17: Uses Eligible at ISU (Plays full year)
2017-18: Uses Eligible at ISU (Plays full year)
This approach also uses his four years of eligibility, but spreads it across five years, which maximizes his playing time.
Correct and totally agree. But suspect Burton and his people are looking for a quicker path to the NBA. We shall see.
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The tampering issue is obviously why the one year rule is there in the first place as voted on by the schools years ago. Otherwise the inmates would be running the asylum. As long as everybody knows the rule ahead of time, all is fair with allowable exceptions for unusual circumstances (which the NCAA has been granting and/or most schools are accommodating for).
Look, I just don't think it would be the chaos you think it would be. And even if it is a little chaotic, I am OK with that. Yes, I understand that it means players could be "free agents" and be picked off by contenders in their fourth year. And I have no problem with that. Especially with the "lifetime scholarship" being picked up by the "final" school, which means that any player has time to complete a degree after their eligibility ends.
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Correct and totally agree. But suspect Burton and his people are looking for a quicker path to the NBA. We shall see.
Bribery would be quickest and best.
Does anyone think he can play the '2' at the next level? Play the '3'? Play the '4'?
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Look, I just don't think it would be the chaos you think it would be. And even if it is a little chaotic, I am OK with that. Yes, I understand that it means players could be "free agents" and be picked off by contenders in their fourth year. And I have no problem with that. Especially with the "lifetime scholarship" being picked up by the "final" school, which means that any player has time to complete a degree after their eligibility ends.
Think players would be well protected with 4 year/lifetime scholies. If they want to move on, well deal with the rule. Guy still has scholie and 4 years of eligibility (unless he does a mid-year, but that's his choice ). Both sides are protected. Don't think they are going to change the one year sit out rule.
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It's very simple. Eligibility and redshirts aren't split between years.
I get it. I just don't understand why any athlete should be PUNISHED and lose a year of eligibility for transferring! MU82 was exactly right when he said it was rigged against the student-athlete.
If the student does the work in the classroom to remain eligible, he/she should NEVER lose a semester or two of eligibility to compete on the court for 4 FULL YEARS. I understand having them sit out, to discourage transfers, but never understood why they would lose eligibility.
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Burton doesn't "lose" a year of eligibility. He only has four, and he's using them all. Its his choice not to use them in the most efficient manner.
Look at how he uses his eligibilty:
2013-14: Eligible at MU
2014-15: Eligible at MU (by virtue of playing 1st semester)
2015-16: Eligible at ISU (by virtue of playing 2nd semester)
2016-17: Eligible at ISU
Four seasons of eligibility used--zero lost.
If he wanted to have more playing time at ISU, he could have done this:
2013-14: Uses Eligible year at MU
2014-15: Uses Eligible year at MU (by virtue of playing 1st semester)
2015-16: Sits out full season
2016-17: Uses Eligible at ISU (Plays full year)
2017-18: Uses Eligible at ISU (Plays full year)
This approach also uses his four years of eligibility, but spreads it across five years, which maximizes his playing time.
Thanks for spelling it out. But, according to my math, he loses 2 semesters of court time by transferring mid season and playing 2nd semester next season (whether you call it eligibility or not). At best, he could lose 1 semester, by sitting out 1.5 years. Either way THAT IS WRONG! It's that simple!
It's wrong for Burton, it's wrong for Fischer, it's wrong for every player that transferred mid-season.
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I get it. I just don't understand why any athlete should be PUNISHED and lose a year of eligibility for transferring! MU82 was exactly right when he said it was rigged against the student-athlete.
If the student does the work in the classroom to remain eligible, he/she should NEVER lose a semester or two of eligibility to compete on the court for 4 FULL YEARS. I understand having them sit out, to discourage transfers, but never understood why they would lose eligibility.
n/m
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I get it. I just don't understand why any athlete should be PUNISHED and lose a year of eligibility for transferring! MU82 was exactly right when he said it was rigged against the student-athlete.
If the student does the work in the classroom to remain eligible, he/she should NEVER lose a semester or two of eligibility to compete on the court for 4 FULL YEARS. I understand having them sit out, to discourage transfers, but never understood why they would lose eligibility.
Thanks for spelling it out. But, according to my math, he loses 2 semesters of court time by transferring mid season (whether you call it eligibility or not). That is wrong! It's that simple!
They don't have to lose eligibility. Simply don't transfer midseason if you want to play 4 full seasons. Not to mention, you can't let a midseason transfer just start playing the first semester of the following year, because then they would only be sitting out 1 semester while players who transfer at the end of the year are required to sit out a full year. So that wouldn't make things fair. So what, you let him start playing 2nd semester and then give him an additional first semester? So your eligibility runs through mid-December of your 5th year of college and then you have to be done? What school is going to want that situation? That wouldn't make any sense.
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Bribery would be quickest and best.
Does anyone think he can play the '2' at the next level? Play the '3'? Play the '4'?
He will never see the NBA unless he's paying for a ticket.
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Again, I have no problem with having them sit a year. But, why shouldn't Luke Fischer be a second semester Freshman eligibility-wise right now? He would then have 3 more full seasons instead of 2.
He transfers mid-season to get out of a situation that he considers a bad fit, and can only play 6 semesters instead of 8. If you think that is fair to the student-athlete, we will have to agree to disagree.
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Again, I have no problem with having them sit a year. But, why shouldn't Luke Fischer be a second semester Freshman eligibility-wise right now? He would then have 3 more full seasons instead of 2.
Because his freshman year was completely used already.
And because he has to sit out a year, he has two choices:
1. Play the 2nd semester this year and have 2 more full seasons.
2. Sit out this entire year and have 3 more full seasons.
He transfers mid-season to get out of a situation that he considers a bad fit, and can only play 6 semesters instead of 8. If you think that is fair to the student-athlete, we will have to agree to disagree.
Why don't you map out how a player can transfer mid-season, sit out a year and still have 8 semesters of total playing time.
I don't see how it can be done.
You seem to be either proposing an extra year of total eligibility (playing across five seasons without injury), which is patently unfair to all the kids who stay with their original team. Or allowing him to play after sitting out only one semester, which is unfair to any kid who transfers at year's end and has to sit out a full year.
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Because his freshman year was completely used already.
And because he has to sit out a year, he has two choices:
1. Play the 2nd semester this year and have 2 more full seasons.
2. Sit out this entire year and have 3 more full seasons.
Why don't you map out how a player can transfer mid-season, sit out a year and still have 8 semesters of total playing time.
I don't see how it can be done.
You seem to be either proposing an extra year of total eligibility (playing across five seasons without injury), which is patently unfair to all the kids who stay with their original team. Or allowing him to play after sitting out only one semester, which is unfair to any kid who transfers at year's end and has to sit out a full year.
What he is advocating for is "half-years" of eligibility. But this makes no sense because it would only affect sports played during the winter season and therefore straddling two semesters.
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As opposed to Bono, I hope he finds what he is looking for.
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Because his freshman year was completely used already.
And because he has to sit out a year, he has two choices:
1. Play the 2nd semester this year and have 2 more full seasons.
2. Sit out this entire year and have 3 more full seasons.
Why don't you map out how a player can transfer mid-season, sit out a year and still have 8 semesters of total playing time.
I don't see how it can be done.
You seem to be either proposing an extra year of total eligibility (playing across five seasons without injury), which is patently unfair to all the kids who stay with their original team. Or allowing him to play after sitting out only one semester, which is unfair to any kid who transfers at year's end and has to sit out a full year.
Luke Fischer has played in 12 games as a college athlete, so yes I think it is fair to still consider him a Freshman. Most 2nd semester sophomores (which is what he currently is) have played in 40-45 games. He will never get those 30 games back.
Winter sports are unique in that each season crosses 2 semesters. So, yes I would allow mid-season transfers to play 8 semesters.
In Luke's case, I believe the NCAA should allow him to play:
1 semester last season at IU,
1 semester this season at MU, and
3 more full seasons at MU.
That would be 4 full seasons (or 8 semesters) across 5 years. I understand that is not how it works, but I don't see how that would give the kid an unfair advantage over any kid who transfers at year end. At the end of the day, Luke and every other mid-season transfer gets to play 6 semesters (7 if they sit out 1.5 years, but nobody does that), and kids that transfer at year end get to play 8 semesters.
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Bribery would be quickest and best.
Does anyone think he can play the '2' at the next level? Play the '3'? Play the '4'?
I think Burton is a long shot, but it's not impossible. I don't think he'll ever be a star but he could be a tweener playing off the bench. Burton has a decent enough shot and plenty of athleticism. The problem is he has massive holes in his game to fix. If he can play with 100% effort 100% of the time while improving his defense and adding technique to his talent, he could play in the league.
Those are some big ifs, however, and he has a long way to go.
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Deonte applying for waiver makes the story make a little more sense for me. I am sure someone told him that he could get a waiver for sure, so transferring now was in his best interest.
I hope that advice doesn't bite him in the ass.
That was my thought as well.
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Luke Fischer has played in 12 games as a college athlete, so yes I think it is fair to still consider him a Freshman. Most 2nd semester sophomores (which is what he currently is) have played in 40-45 games. He will never get those 30 games back.
Winter sports are unique in that each season crosses 2 semesters. So, yes I would allow mid-season transfers to play 8 semesters.
In Luke's case, I believe the NCAA should allow him to play:
1 semester last season at IU,
1 semester this season at MU, and
3 more full seasons at MU.
That would be 4 full seasons (or 8 semesters) across 5 years.
If you're going to do this for transfers, wouldn't it be unfair not to allow it for any player? Lets say a kid like Sandy Cohen decides that he's not progressing as quickly as he'd like in his first half-year. He decides at semester break to sit out the rest of the year, and the first 9 games of the following season. He'd then get to play the 2nd semester of his sophomore year, then have three MORE years of eligibility after that.
Is it fair to only allow that option for transfers but not give the same option to those players who stay with their team?
I understand that is not how it works, but I don't see how that would give the kid an unfair advantage over any kid who transfers at year end.
First off, a mid-year under your plan only has to sit out one semester, but a end-of-season has to sit out two. Unfair.
Second, not only is the waiting time shorter, but a freshman who leaves mid year under your plan would get 7 more semesters of playing over the next four years, while an end-of-year only gets six more over three years.
Worse, a mid-year hurts his team more because he can't be replaced until the next season. At least if a kid leaves at seasons' end, you can fill his space with another player.
Bottom line is that this would be terrible for teams, because it essentially encourages kids to transfer mid-year.
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Thanks for spelling it out. But, according to my math, he loses 2 semesters of court time by transferring mid season and playing 2nd semester next season (whether you call it eligibility or not). At best, he could lose 1 semester, by sitting out 1.5 years. Either way THAT IS WRONG! It's that simple!
It's wrong for Burton, it's wrong for Fischer, it's wrong for every player that transferred mid-season.
No it is not wrong. When you transfer mid-season you are screwing the school you are leaving, because they cannot replace you with another scholarship player. I do not feel sorry for any player that decides to leave at end of first semester.
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Burton only played in 8 games. If I were him I would apply for a medical redshirt under the context of psychological illness, essentially depression and difficulty dealing with his mother's death.
I think we would all agree that he didn't appear like his usual self and it is completely understandable. Even leaving the city would be rational as I'm sure some aspects of being around where he grew up brings back memories.
He's a good kid, if he applies for a waiver etc., I hope he gets it.
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Good bye Deonte Burton
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If you're going to do this for transfers, wouldn't it be unfair not to allow it for any player? Lets say a kid like Sandy Cohen decides that he's not progressing as quickly as he'd like in his first half-year. He decides at semester break to sit out the rest of the year, and the first 9 games of the following season. He'd then get to play the 2nd semester of his sophomore year, then have three MORE years of eligibility after that
Is it fair to only allow that option for transfers but not give the same option to those players who stay with their team?
First off, a mid-year under your plan only has to sit out one semester, but a end-of-season has to sit out two. Unfair.
Second, not only is the waiting time shorter, but a freshman who leaves mid year under your plan would get 7 more semesters of playing over the next four years, while an end-of-year only gets six more over three years.
Worse, a mid-year hurts his team more because he can't be replaced until the next season. At least if a kid leaves at seasons' end, you can fill his space with another player.
Bottom line is that this would be terrible for teams, because it essentially encourages kids to transfer mid-year.
Your first point is a good one. I hadn't considered a player staying at a school, playing one semester and sitting out two, and not having the 2 semesters he sits out count against him. Essentially getting a 'redshirt' year which begins mid-season. I suppose you would have to allow that in all fairness. Although I doubt it would happen, players want to play.
Your second point is flawed. In my example (Luke and Deonte's situation), a mid-year transfer still has to sit a full year (from December to December). No advantage there.
It's a good debate, I am simply not comfortable taking 2 semesters from a kid for getting out of a bad situation. College goes bye too fast as it is.
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I would say a good compromise is to allow any player in his freshman season immediate elligibility if he transfers. Therefore there is no difference if a player transfers midseason or after the season is over - if he's a freshman, he's able to play the first game of the following season with his new team with three years remaining.
After that I'm fine with the same rules applying.
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Well, wasn't he reportedly down to UCLA and IA State? Looks like he made a good call after the beat down UCLA took today. I think Alabama A & M could have done what they did. What was Kevon Looney thinking when he could have gone anywhere in the country?
I can think of a lot of reasons to go to UCLA.....and they are all blond, tan, and wear very little due to the warm weather!
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I'm very pleased for Deonte. Hoberg is a good coach. I think he's a better teacher of the game than Alford and to me this is a good thing for Deonte. He needs to learn the game and learn that at this level, he can no longer rely only on his freakish athleticism. I think Deonte has the highest ceiling of all the guys we've seen in an MU uniform in the last 3 years. (I haven't seen Luke enough, and I think a hundred of you will say Duane has the highest ceiling and I'll agree it's close). Go learn the game young man... and if you do we'll see you in the NBA.
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They don't have to lose eligibility. Simply don't transfer midseason if you want to play 4 full seasons. Not to mention, you can't let a midseason transfer just start playing the first semester of the following year, because then they would only be sitting out 1 semester while players who transfer at the end of the year are required to sit out a full year. So that wouldn't make things fair. So what, you let him start playing 2nd semester and then give him an additional first semester? So your eligibility runs through mid-December of your 5th year of college and then you have to be done? What school is going to want that situation? That wouldn't make any sense.
You wouldn't have to. You could just make Burton, for example, sit out two semesters and still let him have his 2.5 years of eligibility left, concluding with the SECOND semester of his fifth year. I'm not saying that the NCAA should do this. Only that they could.
Bottom line is with that with the current set-up transferring mid-year costs you potential playing time of either 1/2 year (if you want to not play competitive basketball for 22(!) months) or one full year. It is not a good deal for a player and they should probably finish out the season with their current team unless they are absolutely miserable there.
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I guess it's wrong if you don't understand the transfer rules...
could we get the Burton transfer eligibility illustration posted at the top of the page every mid-season so we don't have to have these "when is he eligible and how may semesters he sits out" discussions EVERY year...
Thanks for spelling it out. But, according to my math, he loses 2 semesters of court time by transferring mid season and playing 2nd semester next season (whether you call it eligibility or not). At best, he could lose 1 semester, by sitting out 1.5 years. Either way THAT IS WRONG! It's that simple!
It's wrong for Burton, it's wrong for Fischer, it's wrong for every player that transferred mid-season.
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I can think of a lot of reasons to go to UCLA.....and they are all blond, tan, and wear very little due to the warm weather!
And that is why he is going to Iowa State!
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Burton only played in 8 games. If I were him I would apply for a medical redshirt under the context of psychological illness, essentially depression and difficulty dealing with his mother's death.
I think we would all agree that he didn't appear like his usual self and it is completely understandable. Even leaving the city would be rational as I'm sure some aspects of being around where he grew up brings back memories.
He's a good kid, if he applies for a waiver etc., I hope he gets it.
I am not sure what this would accomplish. He essentially would be redshirting this year and then have to sit out a full year for transferring. That would use three of five years to complete his eligibility, which he would have if he sat out all of next year anyways.
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I am not sure what this would accomplish. He essentially would be redshirting this year and then have to sit out a full year for transferring. That would use three of five years to complete his eligibility, which he would have if he sat out all of next year anyways.
He could get the NCAA to count this entire year as a redshirt year and thus full-fill the sitting out one year as a transfer. I believe there have been similar cases in the past. He would then be immediately eligible come next fall and have 3 years to play.
It would be tough, but possible.
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He could get the NCAA to count this entire year as a redshirt year and thus full-fill the sitting out one year as a transfer. I believe there have been similar cases in the past. He would then be immediately eligible come next fall and have 3 years to play.
It would be tough, but possible.
I think John Dawson has a much more solid case in that regard.
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I think John Dawson has a much more solid case in that regard.
Playing time I agree, but unless I missed something I don't see how he relates it to a medial or psychological illness. Therefor Dawson's case would be very difficult.
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Playing time I agree, but unless I missed something I don't see how he relates it to a medial or psychological illness. Therefor Dawson's case would be very difficult.
Burtons would be even more difficult. His psychological illness would have to be season ending and incapacitating.
Given that he played in the first 8 games, it would appear it was neither.
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Playing time I agree, but unless I missed something I don't see how he relates it to a medial or psychological illness. Therefor Dawson's case would be very difficult.
Dawson could say reading Scoop made his head explode!
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I guess it's wrong if you don't understand the transfer rules...
could we get the Burton transfer eligibility illustration posted at the top of the page every mid-season so we don't have to have these "when is he eligible and how may semesters he sits out" discussions EVERY year...
If you read the thread, you would see everyone understands the transfer rules...
the discussion was about the fairness of a mid-year transfer getting to play 6 semesters on the norm, when a year-end transfer gets to play all 8 semesters on the norm.
Personally, I don't think it is fair to the kid. But, it's a moot point. It's not going to change. Merry Christmas.
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12058558/iowa-state-cyclones-land-marquette-golden-eagles-transfer-deonte-burton
i believe he will be a good fit. always a strong competitive ream under hoiberg. he will join jameel and have 1 1/2 years starting after next fall 1st semester unless the ncaa grants him a bereavement hardship. i won't hold my breath on that one as the ncaa is kinda anal sometimes. good luck deonte! just made a pretty good team better
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12058558/iowa-state-cyclones-land-marquette-golden-eagles-transfer-deonte-burton
i believe he will be a good fit. always a strong competitive ream under hoiberg. he will join jameel and have 1 1/2 years starting after next fall 1st semester unless the ncaa grants him a bereavement hardship. i won't hold my breath on that one as the ncaa is kinda anal sometimes. good luck deonte! just made a pretty good team better
1) Presuming Hoiberg's still there.
2) I don't see the NCAA giving a bereavement hardship because he left Milwaukee.
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the article states that deonte is applying for a waiver due to the passing of his mother...unless he can show them that her passing played a direct result in his drop in playing time and therefore his playing time was so minimal the 1st semester that it shouldn't even qualify as a committed semester...just throwing stuff out there. regardless, i hope he gets enough time to show case himself, have fun and success
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How does Wojo let a guy with real talent get away? We are left with stiffs who can't beat the worst team in the league.
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Got the horse to water. It's da drinkin' part he had trouble with, aina? Ain't no big thang. Next man up, hey?
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How does Wojo let a guy with real talent get away? We are left with stiffs who can't beat the worst team in the league.
Always fallout after a coaching change.
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How does Wojo let a guy with real talent get away? We are left with stiffs who can't beat the worst team in the league.
The players who wouldn't buy into Wojo's style of play left. Both sides will be better off in the long run. Best of luck to the players who left. Wojo has this program going in the right direction.