MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mu35577 on December 19, 2014, 11:56:01 AM
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Anyone have a recap of Wojo and Luke's comments from the radio show last night?
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You can replay it here...
http://www.espnwisconsin.com/page.php?page_id=431# (http://www.espnwisconsin.com/page.php?page_id=431#)
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Wojo: With rare exceptions, over 20 years the best practice players are the best game players.
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Wojo: With rare exceptions, over 20 years the best practice players are the best game players.
See, that I disagree with. I have seen way to many cases where that is not true at all and maybe the Duke mold is different, but not in my experience.
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See, that I disagree with. I have seen way to many cases where that is not true at all and maybe the Duke mold is different, but not in my experience.
You're disagreeing with Wojo - not me.
Wojo also called Juan one of the best defensive players in the country. Took ASU's Gilling - their best player - out of the game. Gilling had one open shot the entire night.
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See, that I disagree with. I have seen way to many cases where that is not true at all and maybe the Duke mold is different, but not in my experience.
Buzz and Wojo, who actually make a living doing this, disagree with you.
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Buzz and Wojo, who actually make a living doing this, disagree with you.
I understand that but I have been around basketball practices since I was born. The college and high school level may be different but I know some college players who were some of the laziest kids in high school but still were the best players on their team. Sometime talent trumps work ethic.
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I understand that but I have been around basketball practices since I was born. The college and high school level may be different but I know some college players who were some of the laziest kids in high school but still were the best players on their team. Sometime talent trumps work ethic.
It's also possible that at this level theyve weeded out pretty much all those players outside of the occasional superstar Id be willing to bet that's what happens
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I understand that but I have been around basketball practices since I was born. The college and high school level may be different but I know some college players who were some of the laziest kids in high school but still were the best players on their team. Sometime talent trumps work ethic.
I think you make a good point. I think kids can be lazy in high school and still play well (even if not up to their full potential). But the more you advance the harder you have to work in practice.
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If you do not practice hard, you are limiting your possiblities to prove you are a better player.
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It's also possible that at this level theyve weeded out pretty much all those players outside of the occasional superstar Id be willing to bet that's what happens
Exactly. Being the best player on your 6th grade team when you're one of 3 kids starting to go through puberty changes as kids move up and the herd is culled. Even a guy with megastar ability like Michael Beasley eventually fails without a work ethic.
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Hope Santa tuned in. The kids want legos and Marquette gear. Smart boys. Get on that St. Nick. ;D
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Two things that stood out:
- Does not believe in strategic technical fouls on a coach for the fans to get into game or to get better calls from refs
- Philosophically has no problem with Juan, Teve, and Fischer on the floor at the same time. Though it will be limited since, being the only bigs, they will need rest
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Wojo:
1. wasn't surprised by JJJ's good game - he had his best week of practice all year.
2. Juan is fully invested in this team.
The Juan situation is interesting to me. While we can all agree Juan is much better this year than last, I don't see Juan doing any one thing better than he did last year. He hustled, defended well, rebounded well, scored at times, etc last year.
The difference I see is that this coach is using Juan's full abilities and putting him on the floor for big minutes. Under Buzz, even when Juan was playing, it was always like he was just the 5th player who needed to be on the floor until one of the other guys came back in.
His situation reminds me a lot of Carlos Gomez. A top prospect in different organizations and then just an OK player when he got here. But suddenly - maybe it was the Braun suspension - he totally bought in as one of the main cogs on the team and his play took off. I see the same thing with Juan this year.
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Wojo:
1. wasn't surprised by JJJ's good game - he had his best week of practice all year.
2. Juan is fully invested in this team.
The Juan situation is interesting to me. While we can all agree Juan is much better this year than last, I don't see Juan doing any one thing better than he did last year. He hustled, defended well, rebounded well, scored at times, etc last year.
The difference I see is that this coach is using Juan's full abilities and putting him on the floor for big minutes. Under Buzz, even when Juan was playing, it was always like he was just the 5th player who needed to be on the floor until one of the other guys came back in.
His situation reminds me a lot of Carlos Gomez. A top prospect in different organizations and then just an OK player when he got here. But suddenly - maybe it was the Braun suspension - he totally bought in as one of the main cogs on the team and his play took off. I see the same thing with Juan this year.
His shooting percentage is far better this season.
But, you're correct, he was already pretty well rounded in every other portion of the game. Now that he can shoot a little bit, it makes him more well rounded.
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The Juan situation is interesting to me. While we can all agree Juan is much better this year than last, I don't see Juan doing any one thing better than he did last year. He hustled, defended well, rebounded well, scored at times, etc last year.
I'd have to look at the numbers, but I get the sense he's finishing better at the rim than he did last year. Which has given him more confidence in other areas.
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I agree with you guys that he is a little better at some things, but he was doing those things last year. And I think it's easier to do those things more often and better when you know you will be on the floor 30 minutes a game rather than hoping you get 15 minutes.
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I agree with you guys that he is a little better at some things, but he was doing those things last year. And I think it's easier to do those things more often and better when you know you will be on the floor 30 minutes a game rather than hoping you get 15 minutes.
Agreed--just looks more comfortable doing everything this year. Reminds me some of the Wes transition from Crean to Buzz. Has a different sense of confidence and leadership that just wasn't there last year.
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Wade was the best player in practice the year he sat out, Wes, Jimmy and Travis were all very good practice players. Jimmy Mac was not. I tend to agree with Wojo. If you think of the great college and pro player's most of the best college players were good practice players and most of the best pro players were good practice player's. Jordan, Bird, Lebron were all known as great practice player's. Iverson not so much and his career reflects it. Carmelo not a great practice player and he will never win a title, MVP or probably another playoff game.
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Remember when him and Derrick were bickering back and forth going into a timeout at the Orlando Classic and Wojo stepped between them and Juan yelled "f*ck you!" at Wojo? Not sure why I just thought of that but the "different sense of confidence and leadership" made me think of that. Was that moment ever discussed on Scoop?
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Phil Jackson said Jordan was by far the best practice player he had ever seen. Kobe was next. FWIW.
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Exactly. Being the best player on your 6th grade team when you're one of 3 kids starting to go through puberty changes as kids move up and the herd is culled. Even a guy with megastar ability like Michael Beasley eventually fails without a work ethic.
seems silly to even have this discussion. Ask Kobe Bryant what he thinks? If you don't work hard you will fall short, period.
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Remember when him and Derrick were bickering back and forth going into a timeout at the Orlando Classic and Wojo stepped between them and Juan yelled "f*ck you!" at Wojo? Not sure why I just thought of that but the "different sense of confidence and leadership" made me think of that. Was that moment ever discussed on Scoop?
My MSU friends who were there with me were kind of shocked. It was loud and clear. And 15 minutes later they were joking with one another. I guess they have that "no grudges" kind of relationship.
You can tell Wojo's favorite player is... Juan. The radio show last night confirmed it.
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It's annoying how you guys take the bait on practice vs. games. What's he supposed to say? Bad practice players play really well during the games. Do you think Gardner practiced harder than O'Tule? Do you think anyone practices harder than Derick Wilson? In the 18 years I've watched, those are the two worst starters in recent MU history. I bet Jake Thomas practiced really hard, even Mayo was better.
Funny story about Allen Iverson, he asked Gary Payton how he stayed so long in the league. Payton told him about not practicing, which lead to his famous rant about "practice". Kobe hasn't practiced in years, neither have any of the stars. The best players DON'T practice.
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It's annoying how you guys take the bait on practice vs. games. What's he supposed to say? Bad practice players play really well during the games. Do you think Gardner practiced harder than O'Tule? Do you think anyone practices harder than Derick Wilson? In the 18 years I've watched, those are the two worst starters in recent MU history. I bet Jake Thomas practiced really hard, even Mayo was better.
Uh, I think Wojo meant the players that produce the most in practice are the ones that produce the most in games. I'm not sure why you started ranting about players that practice hard. You can't coach a donkey to win the Kentucky Derby...so Derrick Wilson, Chris Otule, and Jake Thomas can practice as hard as they can and will never be star players.
Yes, practicing hard is a great way for a talented player to improve. But the point Wojo made is that practice production is the most predictive way of knowing who will be most productive in games.
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Disagree with pretty much everything you said.
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Remember when him and Derrick were bickering back and forth going into a timeout at the Orlando Classic and Wojo stepped between them and Juan yelled "f*ck you!" at Wojo? Not sure why I just thought of that but the "different sense of confidence and leadership" made me think of that. Was that moment ever discussed on Scoop?
I didn't think of that - but it's another good example of Juan being totally invested in the team and Wojo knowing it.
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Uh, I think Wojo meant the players that produce the most in practice are the ones that produce the most in games. I'm not sure why you started ranting about players that practice hard. You can't coach a donkey to win the Kentucky Derby...so Derrick Wilson, Chris Otule, and Jake Thomas can practice as hard as they can and will never be star players.
Yes, practicing hard is a great way for a talented player to improve. But the point Wojo made is that practice production is the most predictive way of knowing who will be most productive in games.
People on this board can't have it both ways. Define the best practice players, because that was the standing argument why bad players took minutes from players that could have developed. How many people say on this board that the hardest workers in practice get the most minutes. JJJ and Burton didn't practice hard, so buzz didn't play them. Of coarse Jordan and Kobe were the best players in practice, they can beat most guys at half speed. Same with Wade at MU.
You think Juan is practicing better than last year? Isn't practice the reason he started last year? Every coach says how practice how you play, but if you've played basketball you know there are certain people who perform when the lights come on, and practice the day before is just one piece to the puzzle. It's coach speak. JJJ hit shots he was missing in previous games, probably because the first one went in and he gained confidence.
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Remember when him and Derrick were bickering back and forth going into a timeout at the Orlando Classic and Wojo stepped between them and Juan yelled "f*ck you!" at Wojo? Not sure why I just thought of that but the "different sense of confidence and leadership" made me think of that. Was that moment ever discussed on Scoop?
He didn't say F you to Wojo. Derrick was getting on him for taking a bad shot. Juan told Derrick something along the lines of "I can Fing shoot if I'm open" Wojo gave him the death stare and Steve pulled Juan into the huddle. Wojo and Juan talked it out and Juan came out and had a helluva game.
I equate it to when football coaches are yelling and screaming, sometimes at each other, on the sidelines. No one means any disrespect, everyone just wants to win that badly.
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He didn't say F you to Wojo. Derrick was getting on him for taking a bad shot. Juan told Derrick something along the lines of "I can Fing shoot if I'm open" Wojo gave him the death stare and Steve pulled Juan into the huddle. Wojo and Juan talked it out and Juan came out and had a helluva game.
I equate it to when football coaches are yelling and screaming, sometimes at each other, on the sidelines. No one means any disrespect, everyone just wants to win that badly.
Yup. Heat od the moment, adrenalin kind of thing.
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People on this board can't have it both ways. Define the best practice players, because that was the standing argument why bad players took minutes from players that could have developed. How many people say on this board that the hardest workers in practice get the most minutes. JJJ and Burton didn't practice hard, so buzz didn't play them. Of coarse Jordan and Kobe were the best players in practice, they can beat most guys at half speed. Same with Wade at MU.
You think Juan is practicing better than last year? Isn't practice the reason he started last year? Every coach says how practice how you play, but if you've played basketball you know there are certain people who perform when the lights come on, and practice the day before is just one piece to the puzzle. It's coach speak. JJJ hit shots he was missing in previous games, probably because the first one went in and he gained confidence.
Actually you can have it both ways. All Wojo said here is that the players who perform the best in practice also perform the best in games. That doesn't say anything about who is getting played, just commenting on a correlation. I think Wojo (as well as most D1 coaches) would also agree that those who put in the work in practice tend to earn more playing time. Talent earns you a certain amount of playing time but the rest is earned in practice.
I've heard this myth of kids who play better when the lights come on a hundred times. I've never actually met one. The only times where I've found something close is when the player doesn't try in practice and is ergo better in a game.
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Actually you can have it both ways. All Wojo said here is that the players who perform the best in practice also perform the best in games. That doesn't say anything about who is getting played, just commenting on a correlation. I think Wojo (as well as most D1 coaches) would also agree that those who put in the work in practice tend to earn more playing time. Talent earns you a certain amount of playing time but the rest is earned in practice.
I've heard this myth of kids who play better when the lights come on a hundred times. I've never actually met one. The only times where I've found something close is when the player doesn't try in practice and is ergo better in a game.
Don't you think it's possible that some talented kids are bored with practice? When the actual games come, their competitive juices start flowing and they turn it up a notch or two? I believe this to be true. Doing the same repetitive drills everyday or going up against top competition. Not saying it's right or happens to every player. I think the kids with less talent would appreciate practice more and would tend to go all out. They got to where they are based on their work ethic, not by being the most talented player. Maybe it's a sense of entitlement, that more gifted players don't practice as hard all the time.
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I have never said the best practice players should get the most minutes in games.
I simply agree that those who do what they are supposed to do in practice will likely be ready to perform their roles well in games.
Derrick practices hard and well, and it translates into him being the best Derrick possible in games. And therefore Wojo knows he will get a certain level of play from him. (Derrick could be the best practice player in history and he's not going to be Chris Paul. I don't think anybody is claiming that to be the case.)
Take another guy, Deonte for example if we are to believe some who claim to know. He didn't go balls-out at practice and it led to Wojo having less confidence in him to perform the way he was supposed to.
Some might be putting a little too much importance on practice habits, but others are guilty of totally dismissing the importance of practice.
As with most subjects, the answer lies in the middle, but we don't like any gray area or nuance here in Scoop Land.
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Don't you think it's possible that some talented kids are bored with practice? When the actual games come, their competitive juices start flowing and they turn it up a notch or two? I believe this to be true. Doing the same repetitive drills everyday or going up against top competition. Not saying it's right or happens to every player. I think the kids with less talent would appreciate practice more and would tend to go all out. They got to where they are based on their work ethic, not by being the most talented player. Maybe it's a sense of entitlement, that more gifted players don't practice as hard all the time.
From experience, NO. Well, there may be some but they are few and far between so I'll amend it to: among kids who love basketball, no.
And I would posit that more gifted players practice harder than those less gifted because they are the ones who know they can use the game to improve their lives.
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We talkin' bout practice.
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We talkin' bout practice.
Thanks, Al.
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Juan's far better this year. Intangibles - more vocal, more emotional (can be good and bad, but has been mostly great), even last year looked like a freshman again at times.
But.. obviously shooting much better (shooting splits are ~12% higher toward at the rim shots, but he's also hit on 6 of his few 3pt shots - that's more than he made all last season). Getting to the line a lot more (FT% not a concern - he's fine). Attacking, drawing contact. Far more involved in the offense. Defensively playing smarter.
Very different player this year.
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Juan's far better this year. Intangibles - more vocal, more emotional (can be good and bad, but has been mostly great), even last year looked like a freshman again at times.
But.. obviously shooting much better (shooting splits are ~12% higher toward at the rim shots, but he's also hit on 6 of his few 3pt shots - that's more than he made all last season). Getting to the line a lot more (FT% not a concern - he's fine). Attacking, drawing contact. Far more involved in the offense. Defensively playing smarter.
Very different player this year.
Totally agree.
It's obvious he has total confidence in his game. It must also be nice for him to know that one screw-up in the first 2 minutes won't lead to him spending the rest of the half on the bench.
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He didn't say F you to Wojo. Derrick was getting on him for taking a bad shot. Juan told Derrick something along the lines of "I can Fing shoot if I'm open" Wojo gave him the death stare and Steve pulled Juan into the huddle. Wojo and Juan talked it out and Juan came out and had a helluva game.
I equate it to when football coaches are yelling and screaming, sometimes at each other, on the sidelines. No one means any disrespect, everyone just wants to win that badly.
Nope, he definitely directs a "F*ck you!" right at Wojo after directing something at Derrick and Wojo stepping in...
http://247sports.com/Bolt/Marquettes-Wojo-wrecks-arm-before-Orlando-Classic-game-33419674
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That link is a reminder that our SID needs a new twitter handle.
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Totally agree.
It's obvious he has total confidence in his game. It must also be nice for him to know that one screw-up in the first 2 minutes won't lead to him spending the rest of the half on the bench.
I disagree somewhat.
Yeah Juan had a short lease last season, but he deserved it. The team had other options in the front court who were better players. This year he's playing in a severely limited front court. This team needs Juan to play well, and for the most part he's produced well. But when you have Otule, Gardner, Jamil, Burton and Mayo last season who were all more effective it's understandable why Juan had his minutes limited.
This season has no correlation on last season and he's playing extremely well. I'm happy for him.
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Took my son to see Jordan play the Lakers and we arrived an hour early to find MJ on the court. He had a guy glued on him as he worked on his moves for 40 minutes before the game. Some people are never satisfied with "Good Enough"
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Why do you take it as if Wojo is making an ontological statement. If he says, "I've seen cases of people who can shirk at practice and still show up for games", would that be the wise thing to do, even if it were true? The mindset of the coach is to motivate his team to give their best in practice, and this becomes part of an overarching approach. You can't separate his interview answers from his goal of motivating his players.