MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: LloydsLegs on December 18, 2014, 08:42:30 PM
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Barkley and Reggie Miller spending most of the Bulls-Knicks game debating just how good Jimmy is. both saying that he deserves to be All Star, and is a top two two way two guard (too many twos?).
Miller really showing lots of love, Charles a bit more reserved.
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Charles "You can't pay everybody".....well here is some news for Charles...somebody is going to pay him .....if not the Bulls it will be somebody else
Tonight's line through 3 quarters....28 points, 4 rebounds, 7 assists....3 steals and a block
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Barkley and Reggie Miller spending most of the Bulls-Knicks game debating just how good Jimmy is. both saying that he deserves to be All Star, and is a top two two way two guard (too many twos?).
Miller really showing lots of love, Charles a bit more reserved.
Charles thinks he is an excellent player. His point is he does not deserve a max deal.
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If he doesn't who does? What dozen players who are going to be free agents would you rather have to justify not giving him a max deal?
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I'd rather give jimmy a max contract then Rose.
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They debated back and forth tonight on whether he deserved a max contract and all agreed he is an all star.
Jimmy's line tonight - 35 points, 11 of 21 from the floor with four 3-pointers, five rebounds, seven assists and four steals in 45 minutes of play. (not to mention, 9-10 from the line)
He will definitely get a max contract IMO.
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I'd rather give jimmy a max contract then Rose.
Rose isn't up for a new contract.
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Speaking of TNT, watching the Golden State-OKC game now. It's what makes the NBA so amazing. Incredible performances from KD and Curry so far and a playoff-level crowd in Oakland. Check it out.
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Curry is playing on another level. That guy is looking unreal.
As a Bulls fan I'm praying that Jimmy stays. I don't know how that could work, but I hope they find a way.
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Curry is playing on another level. That guy is looking unreal.
As a Bulls fan I'm praying that Jimmy stays. I don't know how that could work, but I hope they find a way.
To sign Jimmy to a max deal, the Bulls may end up having to move Taj ($8.25M cap hit) for some cheaper pieces and/or picks. They have Mirotic who will IMO end up as a better player than Taj anyway, plus he's 5 years younger.
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JFB would look great in green, with Jae.
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He's put the Bulls in an unenviable position. Public sentiment is going to be give him Max $. Don't think they can pay everybody. Just hope he goes to a decent team that stresses D. He's a complete player now. Impressive.
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JFB would look great in green, with Jae.
Nah, I wouldn't wish Boston on Jimmy. I like him too much.
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Just a month ago, I would have laughed at the suggestion that Jimmy deserved a max deal. But as others have said, if he doesn't deserve one, who does? He has made himself an elite player, and I don't freely toss around a word like "elite."
Unless something bad happens -- serious injury, inexplicable loss of confidence, etc. -- it's hard to imagine that some team won't reward him handsomely.
The nice thing about Butler is that you know he will play hard no matter what. He doesn't know how to coast. He is a great team player and leader. He is a good guy who has never had off-the-court issues. He is not a whiner or a diva. There is no "drama" surrounding Butler. He is all basketball.
The fact that he has become a great scorer is amazing and unexpected, but he can help a team win even if he has a bad shooting night because of his defense and all the little things he does.
In other words, he is pretty close to "a sure thing."
It sounds ludicrous, but I too would give him a max deal before I'd give one to a player like Rose or Carmelo. (I know they already got theirs; just using them as examples.)
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Speaking of TNT, watching the Golden State-OKC game now. It's what makes the NBA so amazing. Incredible performances from KD and Curry so far and a playoff-level crowd in Oakland. Check it out.
What frustrates me about college basketball fans who "can't stand the NBA" is that I don't think most of them have actually watched the NBA in years. The quality of play at the highest levels is really incredible. The league has really never been better.
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What frustrates me about college basketball fans who "can't stand the NBA" is that I don't think most of them have actually watched the NBA in years. The quality of play at the highest levels is really incredible. The league has really never been better.
And college basketball has never been worse. Watch the two back to back, and the NBA is a far more entertaining product. The quality of play has improved dramatically.
Been fighting this fight in MKE for years. Thankfully, this Bucks team has started to change a few minds.
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The idea of who deserves a max deal is such an interesting thing. I think there's going to be a swing where a lot of players start to fall into this category when contract time comes around. It's probably fairly tough to be a GM in the NBA today. There is money to be had in a lot of different markets now, and players aren't necessarily going to just head to LA or NY anymore.
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Just a month ago, I would have laughed at the suggestion that Jimmy deserved a max deal. But as others have said, if he doesn't deserve one, who does? He has made himself an elite player, and I don't freely toss around a word like "elite."
Unless something bad happens -- serious injury, inexplicable loss of confidence, etc. -- it's hard to imagine that some team won't reward him handsomely.
The nice thing about Butler is that you know he will play hard no matter what. He doesn't know how to coast. He is a great team player and leader. He is a good guy who has never had off-the-court issues. He is not a whiner or a diva. There is no "drama" surrounding Butler. He is all basketball.
The fact that he has become a great scorer is amazing and unexpected, but he can help a team win even if he has a bad shooting night because of his defense and all the little things he does.
In other words, he is pretty close to "a sure thing."
It sounds ludicrous, but I too would give him a max deal before I'd give one to a player like Rose or Carmelo. (I know they already got theirs; just using them as examples.)
It is amazing. JFB has grown from being a defensive specialist to a complete offensive player. He can post you up, hit the open 3, drive on guys, play in transition (love seeing him get the rebound and go coast to coast b4 the other guys react) and get to the line 10 times a game. And he is an excellent passer. Worked his ass off in the off seasons and it has paid off.
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How did Jimmy Butler get this good?
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What frustrates me about college basketball fans who "can't stand the NBA" is that I don't think most of them have actually watched the NBA in years. The quality of play at the highest levels is really incredible. The league has really never been better.
So true. The sophistication of the defenses, coupled with the incredible offensive execution is great to watch. Not every team, all 82 games, but pretty much every night there is a match up that is a ton of fun to watch.
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How did Jimmy Butler get this good?
Buzz, pure and simple.
(Just trolling for Chicos' 20,000th post)
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Jimmy Butler is probably worth the amount of what a max contract is but Lebron, Durant, Anthony Davis, etc. are worth more than a max contract. However, they are limited to that max contract by the CBA to prevent the NBA middle class from disappearing. Endorsements are where these "Super Max" players get paid.
So while I don't put Jimmy on the superstar level of a Lebron, he's having an All-Star year that if he can carry forward is good enough to be a #2 on a title contender. Someone will pay him, whether it's the Bulls or not.
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I'd rather give jimmy a max contract then Rose.
This. I was 'done' with Rose during the playoffs a couple of years ago when he had already been cleared by the doctors for 60 days but couldn't put on his uniform because his 'muscle memory' hadn't yet returned. A flu bug went through the team and guys were blowing chunks into a garbage can along the bench and then re-entering the game to soldier on. But Rose couldn't dress and spell them. Jimmy was playing 48 minutes EVERY night. Rose is a hairy wet cat. Jimmy, a Warrior.
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I love Wesley and I love Dwyane, but at this moment JFB is MU's best former player in the NBA.
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With the success JFB is having in the NBA makes me wonder...what the heck happen to Lazar??!!!
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With the success JFB is having in the NBA makes me wonder...what the heck happen to Lazar??!!!
He's undersized. I think he is in Europe.
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He's undersized. I think he is in Europe.
He's also not as quick or athletic as Jimmy.
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With the success JFB is having in the NBA makes me wonder...what the heck happen to Lazar??!!!
Speaking with the dead?
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To sign Jimmy to a max deal, the Bulls may end up having to move Taj ($8.25M cap hit) for some cheaper pieces and/or picks. They have Mirotic who will IMO end up as a better player than Taj anyway, plus he's 5 years younger.
The Bulls can match any offer to Butler and go over the cap to do so, without having to move someone like Gibson. The question is will Reinsdorf actually spend the money. As a Bulls fan they really made a mistake by not getting him signed prior to the season and I will be furious if they let him walk due to finances. Hopefully it works out.
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I love Wesley and I love Dwyane, but at this moment JFB is MU's best former player in the NBA.
Dwyane Wade says not so fast.
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He's also not as quick or athletic as Jimmy.
He also talks to ghosts and what not.
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The Bulls can match any offer to Butler and go over the cap to do so, without having to move someone like Gibson. The question is will Reinsdorf actually spend the money. As a Bulls fan they really made a mistake by not getting him signed prior to the season and I will be furious if they let him walk due to finances. Hopefully it works out.
i don't follow the nba much anymore, so i haven't kept up on salary caps, penalties, and contracts...when you say the bulls can match...
1. would they have to pay a tax for going over the salary cap?
2. if they match does jimmy have to stay put in chicago?
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I love Wesley and I love Dwyane, but at this moment JFB is MU's best former player in the NBA.
True, but I still think Dwyane's total body of work will still exceed Butler's when all is said and done.
Before this season I would have argued that Wesley was the better player than Butler but that certainly isn't true anymore.
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i don't follow the nba much anymore, so i haven't kept up on salary caps, penalties, and contracts...when you say the bulls can match...
1. would they have to pay a tax for going over the salary cap?
2. if they match does jimmy have to stay put in chicago?
1. No, there is a salary cap and a luxury tax threshold.
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/07/09/2013-14-nba-salary-cap-figure-set-at-58-679-million/
2. I don't think so.
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This. I was 'done' with Rose during the playoffs a couple of years ago when he had already been cleared by the doctors for 60 days but couldn't put on his uniform because his 'muscle memory' hadn't yet returned. A flu bug went through the team and guys were blowing chunks into a garbage can along the bench and then re-entering the game to soldier on. But Rose couldn't dress and spell them. Jimmy was playing 48 minutes EVERY night. Rose is a hairy wet cat. Jimmy, a Warrior.
It used to be that Rose made everyone else play better. Right now, Rose should be able to take advantage of Jimmy's play to enhance his own comeback but he really hasn't. Jimmy has prospered regardless of whether Rose plays or not.
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2. if they match does jimmy have to stay put in chicago?
Jimmy is a restricted Free Agent in 15/16, which I believe means that if Chicago matches, he does have to stay put with Chicago. I am sure someone on the board knows definitively, but that is my understanding of RFA.
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True, but I still think Dwyane's total body of work will still exceed Butler's when all is said and done.
Before this season I would have argued that Wesley was the better player than Butler but that certainly isn't true anymore.
I don't see Butler getting 3 rings or being a first ballot Hall of Famer. Wade have those rings and be a first ballot HOF.
Also, even this year Wade is still playing better. Averaging slightly more points on better shooting percentages (outside of FT%), less steals but slightly more blocks, less rebounds but more assists. Wade's PER is 24.00 to Butler's 21.88 (Wesley's is 15.97). MU is well represented however you look at it.
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Jimmy is a restricted Free Agent in 15/16, which I believe means that if Chicago matches, he does have to stay put with Chicago. I am sure someone on the board knows definitively, but that is my understanding of RFA.
In order to be a "restricted" free agent, the player's team must make a qualifying offer, which is typically a 1-year deal at a discount price (exact amount has to do with the player's draft position, IIRC). The RFA can sign the qualifying offer or he can sign an offer sheet with any other team. If he signs an offer sheet, his current team then has 72 hours to match the offer (i.e. bring him back for the years/cash on the offer sheet), let him go, or attempt to work out a sign-and-trade with the team whose offer the player signed.
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True, but I still think Dwyane's total body of work will still exceed Butler's when all is said and done.
Before this season I would have argued that Wesley was the better player than Butler but that certainly isn't true anymore.
A few of us did have that argument at the beginning of the season http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=44992.0
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Also mentioned on the telecast that Wesley may be the third (after Klay and Jimmy) best two-way at the 2 spot.
How cool is it for MU to have three of the best 2 guards in the league? DWade, Wesley and Jimmy are top 5 or so when considering all around play.
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With the success JFB is having in the NBA makes me wonder...what the heck happen to Lazar??!!!
Playing in a league with a bunch of ghosts. He's breaking barriers though as he's the first living person to play in it.
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If he doesn't who does? What dozen players who are going to be free agents would you rather have to justify not giving him a max deal?
If Jimmy woulda played for Crean instead of Buzz, a max deal is guaranteed 'cause of Crean's connections and such, aina?
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I love Wesley and I love Dwyane, but at this moment JFB is MU's best former player in the NBA.
I wouldn't count out Dwyane yet. His team is pure garbage but his state are niiiiiiiiiiice
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How did Jimmy Butler get this good?
Crean made him what he is today.
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True, but I still think Dwyane's total body of work will still exceed Butler's when all is said and done.
No doubt, would never say otherwise.
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With the success JFB is having in the NBA makes me wonder...what the heck happen to Lazar??!!!
He's got a gig talkin' full time to the dead, hey?
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True, but I still think Dwyane's total body of work will still exceed Butler's when all is said and done.
Before this season I would have argued that Wesley was the better player than Butler but that certainly isn't true anymore.
Haha this didn't need mentioning.
Wade's career PPG is 24.3
As good as Jimmy is becoming idk that he is ever going to average 24 in a season and he definitely isn't going to put up Dwade prime numbers.
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I don't see Butler getting 3 rings or being a first ballot Hall of Famer. Wade have those rings and be a first ballot HOF.
Also, even this year Wade is still playing better. Averaging slightly more points on better shooting percentages (outside of FT%), less steals but slightly more blocks, less rebounds but more assists. Wade's PER is 24.00 to Butler's 21.88 (Wesley's is 15.97). MU is well represented however you look at it.
1.I don't see Butler's career as better either. For now anyway that would be ridiculous.
2. I don't know how well PER measures a player's defensive ability, but if it has Wade 2014/15>JFB 2014/15 my guess is not very well. Dwyane will be on the All Star team for previous greatness. Jimmy for what he is today.
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Haha this didn't need mentioning.
Wade's career PPG is 24.3
As good as Jimmy is becoming idk that he is ever going to average 24 in a season and he definitely isn't going to put up Dwade prime numbers.
Exactly.
Wade is the gold standard for NBA 2G from Marquette. Butler has a LOOOONG way to go to come close to accomplishing all Wade has. Wade absolutely carried a team to a championship, and was the second-best player on a team that went to 4 straight NBA Finals, with two more titles. He personally recruited the best player in the game to join him in that latter situation, accepting less money to do so. And then there are his stats, which are superior to any MU 2G in NBA history by a wide margin.
Yes, Butler is only in his fourth season. But by the time Wade had finished three seasons, he was a champion, a Finals MVP and a two-time All-Star who had started 50 playoff games.
Love me some JFB, but at this point in their careers, it would be like comparing DeMarcus Cousins to the Mailman. Thankfully, I don't really see folks doing this, despite the temptation to love the shiny, new toy more than the older, somewhat battered toy.
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I think what the previous poster meant was 25 year old Jimmy Butler is better than 32 year old Dwyane Wade. Clearly Wade's career is light years better than Butler's. Looking at just this season I'd give Jimmy a slight edge over Dwyane mostly due to better health and little bit due to more consistent defense. But it's razor thin.
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I think what the previous poster meant was 25 year old Jimmy Butler is better than 32 year old Dwyane Wade. Clearly Wade's career is light years better than Butler's. Looking at just this season I'd give Jimmy a slight edge over Dwyane mostly due to better health and little bit due to more consistent defense. But it's razor thin.
Exactly
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I don't see Butler getting 3 rings or being a first ballot Hall of Famer. Wade have those rings and be a first ballot HOF.
Also, even this year Wade is still playing better. Averaging slightly more points on better shooting percentages (outside of FT%), less steals but slightly more blocks, less rebounds but more assists. Wade's PER is 24.00 to Butler's 21.88 (Wesley's is 15.97). MU is well represented however you look at it.
WHEN Wade plays he may perform slightly better, but the fact that Jimmy logs major minutes and doesn't miss games has to be part of the conversation on which player is better right now.
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Jimmy again lol
Wade with a nice night too in another loss. Can't make free throws this year though.
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31 and 10 for JFB tonight in Memphis.
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31 and 10 for JFB tonight in Memphis.
On back to back nights....both over 40 minutes of PT too. Insane this guy.
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This. I was 'done' with Rose during the playoffs a couple of years ago when he had already been cleared by the doctors for 60 days but couldn't put on his uniform because his 'muscle memory' hadn't yet returned. A flu bug went through the team and guys were blowing chunks into a garbage can along the bench and then re-entering the game to soldier on. But Rose couldn't dress and spell them. Jimmy was playing 48 minutes EVERY night. Rose is a hairy wet cat. Jimmy, a Warrior.
While I agree that this season Jimmy is better, this post couldn't be more wrong. You may be right that Rose was cleared by doctors, but do you know how doctors clear their athletes to go back to play? They bend their knee a couple of times, make them raise their leg up and might test the integrity of the ACL graft. And then they say is what does your rehab person say? You are correct that there was nothing else the physician could do, but it doesn't mean their rehab was done or they were ready to return to play. We never heard from any ATCs or PTs, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Also, more and more studies come out and say "muscle memory" is way more important than anything else in rehabilitation. You most likely will get all of your range of motion and strength back, but if athletes don't return, it's for lack of confidence or periods of instability. It has nothing to do with being a "hairy wet cat." Sorry, off my soapbox now.
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While I agree that this season Jimmy is better, this post couldn't be more wrong. You may be right that Rose was cleared by doctors, but do you know how doctors clear their athletes to go back to play? They bend their knee a couple of times, make them raise their leg up and might test the integrity of the ACL graft. And then they say is what does your rehab person say? You are correct that there was nothing else the physician could do, but it doesn't mean their rehab was done or they were ready to return to play. We never heard from any ATCs or PTs, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Also, more and more studies come out and say "muscle memory" is way more important than anything else in rehabilitation. You most likely will get all of your range of motion and strength back, but if athletes don't return, it's for lack of confidence or periods of instability. It has nothing to do with being a "hairy wet cat." Sorry, off my soapbox now.
I'm going to go ahead and say no professional sports team in the United States would ever hire a team doctor who bends the knee a few times and clears the player the franchise considers to be the best thing to happen since MJ coming off of an ACL tear. Team doctors are overprotective in professional sports, and the guy was cleared for months. I can't remember a time where a player was cleared by doctors to return to play and just chose not to. He's as soft of a professional athlete as you will find, as evidenced by the fact that he can't play through a cold.
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While I agree that this season Jimmy is better, this post couldn't be more wrong. You may be right that Rose was cleared by doctors, but do you know how doctors clear their athletes to go back to play? They bend their knee a couple of times, make them raise their leg up and might test the integrity of the ACL graft. And then they say is what does your rehab person say? You are correct that there was nothing else the physician could do, but it doesn't mean their rehab was done or they were ready to return to play. We never heard from any ATCs or PTs, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Also, more and more studies come out and say "muscle memory" is way more important than anything else in rehabilitation. You most likely will get all of your range of motion and strength back, but if athletes don't return, it's for lack of confidence or periods of instability. It has nothing to do with being a "hairy wet cat." Sorry, off my soapbox now.
Well I know where he was doing his PT at and I assure you he was cleared.
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Team doctors are overprotective in professional sports, and the guy was cleared for months.
There are probably a lot of former NFL players that would argue with you on this.
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Any other college programs have 3 guys average 16 a game or better in the NBA right now?
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Any other college programs have 3 guys average 16 a game or better in the NBA right now?
Kentucky probably. Davis, Bledsoe and probably a 3rd. I don't know what Kidd Gilchrist is averaging.
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Well I know where he was doing his PT at and I assure you he was cleared.
Interesting, care to share what tests he passed?
I'm going to go ahead and say no professional sports team in the United States would ever hire a team doctor who bends the knee a few times and clears the player the franchise considers to be the best thing to happen since MJ coming off of an ACL tear. Team doctors are overprotective in professional sports, and the guy was cleared for months. I can't remember a time where a player was cleared by doctors to return to play and just chose not to. He's as soft of a professional athlete as you will find, as evidenced by the fact that he can't play through a cold.
Did the physician run him through the battery of tests that is normally required to clear someone? Have you ever visited with a physician and consulted with them on returning a player to a sport? Have you ever worked with a professional basketball player in their return to sport after an ACL reconstruction? The fact that no one on this board has questioned Rose's quick decision to have a meniscus repair versus a menisectomy (a way, way bigger toughness red flag in my opinion), shows the quality of sports medicine education on Scoop.
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Kentucky probably. Davis, Bledsoe and probably a 3rd. I don't know what Kidd Gilchrist is averaging.
Without looking at his stats I can say he sure as hell isn't averaging 16 lol. Doubtful on double digits.
I would have to think on other UK players. Rondo but he only averages like 8 pts.
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Without looking at his stats I can say he sure as hell isn't averaging 16 lol. Doubtful on double digits.
I would have to think on other UK players. Rondo but he only averages like 8 pts.
Brandon Knight
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Wall has to be averaging 16.
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Wall has to be averaging 16.
Duh on Wall wow lol.
Knight is actually having a pretty nice year on the up and coming Bucks.
And yup...MKG is only averaging 8.9
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Duh on Wall wow lol.
Knight is actually having a pretty nice year on the up and coming Bucks.
And yup...MKG is only averaging 8.9
Knight's numbers look good but he's no good.
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Knight's numbers look good but he's no good.
Yeah that is what I have always thought. I don't watch enough NBA..certainly not the Bucks so I was surprised at his numbers even when you mentioned him.
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Add Demarcus Cousins to the UK list of players over 16 ppg. Bledsoe just below for the moment at 15.8.
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While I agree that this season Jimmy is better, this post couldn't be more wrong. You may be right that Rose was cleared by doctors, but do you know how doctors clear their athletes to go back to play? They bend their knee a couple of times, make them raise their leg up and might test the integrity of the ACL graft. And then they say is what does your rehab person say? You are correct that there was nothing else the physician could do, but it doesn't mean their rehab was done or they were ready to return to play. We never heard from any ATCs or PTs, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Also, more and more studies come out and say "muscle memory" is way more important than anything else in rehabilitation. You most likely will get all of your range of motion and strength back, but if athletes don't return, it's for lack of confidence or periods of instability. It has nothing to do with being a "hairy wet cat." Sorry, off my soapbox now.
If Rose had another medical opinion that stated he wasn't ready to return, I would agree with you. But that wasn't the case. Rose *could* have played. He was medically cleared and went through physical therapy. He just didn't think he was ready. It was in his head.
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If Rose had another medical opinion that stated he wasn't ready to return, I would agree with you. But that wasn't the case. Rose *could* have played. He was medically cleared and went through physical therapy. He just didn't think he was ready. It was in his head.
"In his head" is a big deal post ACL reconstruction.
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"In his head" is a big deal post ACL reconstruction.
And the only way to get it out is to play.
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And the only way to get it out is to play.
Yeah, that's totally wrong. The only way to gain back proprioception in someone's surgically repaired knee is to play 5 on 5 against the other best players in the world, 5 of which have no regard to your overall health, makes sense to me.
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Yeah, that's totally wrong. The only way to gain back proprioception in someone's surgically repaired knee is to play 5 on 5 against the other best players in the world, 5 of which have no regard to your overall health, makes sense to me.
He was practicing and reportedly at a high level. He just didn't want to play...or feel that he could play...whatever.
Look, it was obviously ultimately his decision. But I can't blame Bulls fans for being pissed that he decided not to after being cleared. Which meant being done with rehab too .... which makes this earlier statement of yours was completely wrong: "You may be right that Rose was cleared by doctors, but do you know how doctors clear their athletes to go back to play? They bend their knee a couple of times, make them raise their leg up and might test the integrity of the ACL graft. And then they say is what does your rehab person say? You are correct that there was nothing else the physician could do, but it doesn't mean their rehab was done or they were ready to return to play."
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As far as Rose is concerned, soft. I don't judge though most people here see his decision from their perspective what ever that may be fan, former high school player etc. For Rose, I think it became an expected value/ risk reward issue. I would guess somebody in his posse walked him through it. It just is.
JFB vs Dwade.... Love that they are both MU grads and have had great/are having great careers. I love that JFB is going to get paid given his family history. I don't think many of us expected him to improve as much as he has after being drafted. For DWade anyone who watched him dismantle the overall #1 seed. Kentucky in 03 knew what kind of career was ahead of him. I suppose just a matter of expectations.
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I'm going to go ahead and say no professional sports team in the United States would ever hire a team doctor who bends the knee a few times and clears the player the franchise considers to be the best thing to happen since MJ coming off of an ACL tear. Team doctors are overprotective in professional sports, and the guy was cleared for months. I can't remember a time where a player was cleared by doctors to return to play and just chose not to. He's as soft of a professional athlete as you will find, as evidenced by the fact that he can't play through a cold.
Most of the responses on Rose are idiotic, including this one. I'm not quite sure why any post complimenting Jimmy's amazing year needs to sh*t on DRose. That being said I've been very annoyed with him at times as most Bulls fans have.
The Bulls made a horrible decision in 12-13 by just not declaring him out for the year right away. People can argue all they want about his decision not to play that year. Regardless of what it was the Bulls were not getting past Miami.
People calling him a "hairy wet cat" probably haven't had two serious knee injuries in their life or any understanding of what coming back from that entails. Butler is a warrior but playing through his thumb and shoulder injuries are not quite the same thing. One of the problems is Rose doesn't seem to be particularly bright and his advisors and/or family have handled the whole situation poorly, especially some of his comments to the press.
What speaks volumes is that through all of this there have not been any rumblings from the locker room of players and/or coaches questioning Rose. No discord whatsoever to speak of. The Bulls will not go to the finals and win a title without him.
If Rose is still sitting out come playoff time due to questionable injuries or circumstances then a lot of this talk will have been proven right. I'm pretty sure it was more than a cold that caused him to miss the last two.
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Most of the responses on Rose are idiotic, including this one. I'm not quite sure why any post complimenting Jimmy's amazing year needs to sh*t on DRose. That being said I've been very annoyed with him at times as most Bulls fans have.
The Bulls made a horrible decision in 12-13 by just not declaring him out for the year right away. People can argue all they want about his decision not to play that year. Regardless of what it was the Bulls were not getting past Miami.
People calling him a "hairy wet cat" probably haven't had two serious knee injuries in their life or any understanding of what coming back from that entails. Butler is a warrior but playing through his thumb and shoulder injuries are not quite the same thing. One of the problems is Rose doesn't seem to be particularly bright and his advisors and/or family have handled the whole situation poorly, especially some of his comments to the press.
What speaks volumes is that through all of this there have not been any rumblings from the locker room of players and/or coaches questioning Rose. No discord whatsoever to speak of. The Bulls will not go to the finals and win a title without him.
If Rose is still sitting out come playoff time due to questionable injuries or circumstances then a lot of this talk will have been proven right. I'm pretty sure it was more than a cold that caused him to miss the last two.
I haven't been through 2 serious knee injuries and the recovery but that was Rose's first and he had been cleared to play and had been playing at practice for months. I have been through ankle surgery and could not wait to be cleared to play and hated it when my coach wouldn't play me right away because I was still favoring my left leg. All that sitting out and then he comes back and injures the other knee anyways.
I just hope he doesn't have an itch in his throat going into game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals against the Cavs. Would prefer not to see LeBron back in the Finals.
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I haven't been through 2 serious knee injuries and the recovery but that was Rose's first and he had been cleared to play and had been playing at practice for months. I have been through ankle surgery and could not wait to be cleared to play and hated it when my coach wouldn't play me right away because I was still favoring my left leg. All that sitting out and then he comes back and injures the other knee anyways.
I just hope he doesn't have an itch in his throat going into game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals against the Cavs. Would prefer not to see LeBron back in the Finals.
I apologize I get so up in arms about this, but there is very few times in any medical case that answers are black or white. There is always gray. Just because so and so came back in 6 months, doesn't mean the next guy can too. With ACL re-construction, there are different surgeons, different grafts, different rehab. styles. The injuries can be different too, some have meniscal tears, some have bone bruises, everything is different. I like the Bulls, but they weren't beating the Heat that series anyway. And Rose came out 5 months later before the meniscal tear and was pretty rusty. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have gotten the Bulls past the Heat and he felt he wasn't ready, so who cares?
He was practicing and reportedly at a high level. He just didn't want to play...or feel that he could play...whatever.
Look, it was obviously ultimately his decision. But I can't blame Bulls fans for being pissed that he decided not to after being cleared. Which meant being done with rehab too .... which makes this earlier statement of yours was completely wrong: "You may be right that Rose was cleared by doctors, but do you know how doctors clear their athletes to go back to play? They bend their knee a couple of times, make them raise their leg up and might test the integrity of the ACL graft. And then they say is what does your rehab person say? You are correct that there was nothing else the physician could do, but it doesn't mean their rehab was done or they were ready to return to play."
Here is a typical timeline:
Surgery
Rehab.
6 months after? (again no absolutes in medicine), does some functional testing (by rehab, not physician) to see where he is at (I could break this down more, but don't want to bore everyone)
Once functional testing is ~85% of the opposite side, the doctor then usually gives the okay to return to play (again this varies greatly on a lot of different things, including the 85% thing)
I've worked with a higher level patient in the past who was cleared in 5 months, we just had someone cleared in 11 months. It all depends on many, many different factors.
I don't remember if Dr. Cole actually came out and said he was medically able to play. That could have been a media report from somewhere and if someone could find it, I would appreciate it. For an NBA athlete, rehab is not over when they are medically able to play. One of the last basketball players we rehabbed, we had to find someone who could play him one on one, but also was smart enough to not injure him again. It's a fine line.
Here's an article from the best known Orthopedics/ Sports Physical Therapy journal. http://www.jospt.org/doi/abs/10.2519/jospt.2012.4077#.VJefzLgC0JA (http://www.jospt.org/doi/abs/10.2519/jospt.2012.4077#.VJefzLgC0JA) One of three major things of athletes not returning to their sport one year post op, is periods of instability. If Rose was still having those, he's just like every other person that hasn't returned to sports. The doctors could medically clear him, at that point there is nothing else they could do surgically. His ROM, graft, strength could all be great, but if he lacks the ability to feel that his joint his stable, than he deserves the right to say he doesn't want to play.
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Add Demarcus Cousins to the UK list of players over 16 ppg. Bledsoe just below for the moment at 15.8.
Cousins, Davis and Wall vs. Jimmy, Wade and Wes?
Rebounding and interior play vs. perimeter play and quickness.
Marquette 100, Mildcats 2, my friends.
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Seriously, I think the FBI, CIA, NSA and Homeland Security need to team up to provide 24/7 security and surveillance for a three mile radius around JFB. A rogue weapons manufacturer needs only to get his hands on JFB's DNA to unlock the secret to an invincible super weapon that continuously learns, can adapt to any environment and still be one of the top five defenders in the league.
We're talking some scary-ass sh|t along the lines of what would spawn from a rendezvous consisting of the Decepticons, sentinels, T-X, the velociraptors from Jurassic Park, WOPR, and Barry White.
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Seriously, I think the FBI, CIA, NSA and Homeland Security need to team up to provide 24/7 security and surveillance for a three mile radius around JFB. A rogue weapons manufacturer needs only to get his hands on JFB's DNA to unlock the secret to an invincible super weapon that continuously learns, can adapt to any environment and still be one of the top five defenders in the league.
We're talking some scary-ass sh|t along the lines of what would spawn from a rendezvous consisting of the Decepticons, sentinels, T-X, the velociraptors from Jurassic Park, WOPR, and Barry White.
(http://i.imgur.com/3slgz0f.gif)
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Cousins, Davis and Wall vs. Jimmy, Wade and Wes?
Rebounding and interior play vs. perimeter play and quickness.
Marquette 100, Mildcats 2, my friends.
That would be an unbelievable 3 vs. 3 matchup. I would pay money to see that.
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I don't remember if Dr. Cole actually came out and said he was medically able to play. That could have been a media report from somewhere and if someone could find it, I would appreciate it. For an NBA athlete, rehab is not over when they are medically able to play. One of the last basketball players we rehabbed, we had to find someone who could play him one on one, but also was smart enough to not injure him again. It's a fine line.
http://www.sbnation.com/2013/4/24/4257684/derrick-rose-injury-return-chicago-bulls-nba-playoffs-2013
"Rose started taking full contact in practice on Jan. 31. On March 9, ESPN Chicago reported doctors had cleared him to return to games."
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Cousins, Davis and Wall vs. Jimmy, Wade and Wes?
Rebounding and interior play vs. perimeter play and quickness.
Marquette 100, Mildcats 2, my friends.
Dwade only 1 not currently in his "prime" or early years. If we got prime dwade it would be real fun.
Davis and Cousins would have so much size advantage but in a 3 on 3 game the perimeter play and quickness would be big too. Even though way undersized all 3 can guard big. All 3 are real good at drawing contact too(Wes not as much this year).
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They debated back and forth tonight on whether he deserved a max contract and all agreed he is an all star.
Jimmy's line tonight - 35 points, 11 of 21 from the floor with four 3-pointers, five rebounds, seven assists and four steals in 45 minutes of play. (not to mention, 9-10 from the line)
He will definitely get a max contract IMO.
I just can't believe that the kid we saw start to get a few minutes after Dominic was injured is now the subject of a "just an all-star or a max deal" player.
For the record though, one of the first things that got me into conversations with NBA teams looking at Value Add was when right after Lazar was picked I told them Jimmy was actually a much better NBA prospect. His junior year they were both in the top 1%, but Jimmy was 5th in Value Add and LAzar was 34th. Some of the NBA INDICATORS that Rob Lowe calculated in addition to Value Add showed Jimmy was actually a much better prospect. When Jimmy wasn't even on the draft board one even jokingly asked me if I would stop writing about him because they were worried he was going to shoot up too high in the draft! in 2010, I had Jimmy calculated with a Value Add of 7.79 and Lazar with 6.49.
Season Rank Player Team Conf Ht Class Off Def PG Per Value Add Year NBA Position
5 Butler, Jimmy Marquette BE 6-06 3 Jr 6.85 -1.35 0.00 7.79 2010 SF NBA
34 Hayward, Lazar Marquette BE 6-06 4 Sr 3.82 -3.01 0.00 6.49 2010 SF NBA
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Tonight in 44 minutes
JFB: 27 points, 11-11 FT, 11reb, 4ast, 1stl, and 5blks (FIVE!!) in a Bulls win over Toronto (with only one TO and one PF, to boot)
Wow, just wow.
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Tonight in 44 minutes
JFB: 27 points, 11-11 FT, 11reb, 4ast, 1stl, and 5blks (FIVE!!) in a Bulls win over Toronto (with only one TO and one PF, to boot)
Wow, just wow.
His offensive game to start the 1Q was outrageous. Fearless attacking the rim, SUPER quick, and popping out for 3.
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Does TNT know that he's Jimmy F'n Butler?
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Does TNT know that he's Jimmy F'n Butler?
They do now. ;)
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Chicago Trib poll on who has been the best player on the Bulls so far this year.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-who-has-been-the-best-player-on-the-bulls-so-far-20141223-htmlstory.html
JFB with 88% of the vote so far :D
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haven't been following real close yet, but has jimmy maintained his humility? is he the same quiet, unassuming guy we all knew and loved?
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haven't been following real close yet, but has jimmy maintained his humility? is he the same quiet, unassuming guy we all knew and loved?
From what I have seen, yes. Very confident now in terms of his game, but always quick to compliment and give credit for his success to his teammates. Also has shown a pretty good sense of humor with the media. Still seems like low key Jimmy who happens to be one of the best players in the NBA right now.
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Does his mother still think he's ugly?
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Does his mother still think he's ugly?
Don't know, but she does think you're ugly.
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http://www.nba.com/bulls/community/butler-makes-real-life-difference-400-students (http://www.nba.com/bulls/community/butler-makes-real-life-difference-400-students) Enjoy.
Look closely at the picture. I will personally donate 20 MU t-shirts to this next year, anyone else with me?
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http://www.nba.com/bulls/community/butler-makes-real-life-difference-400-students (http://www.nba.com/bulls/community/butler-makes-real-life-difference-400-students) Enjoy.
Look closely at the picture. I will personally donate 20 MU t-shirts to this next year, anyone else with me?
A Badger shirt in Chicago. That's a pretty horrible combination if you ask me.
Also, Rose's muscle memory must be off, couldn't stand around that long and make an actual appearance. At least he took the time to leave the kids with a nice video message.
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Just happened to see the league stats: Jimmy F. Butler is the No. 10 scorer in the NBA! :o
No matter how bullish (pun intended) any of us were on Jimmy's potential as a pro, I don't think anybody saw that coming -- including Jimmy himself.
If and when Rose gets fully healed (and I mean psychologically, too), it's not a stretch to say that Butler-Rose is every bit as good as Curry-Thompson or any other NBA backcourt. (And I'm not a Bulls fan.)
Crazy!
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Just happened to see the league stats: Jimmy F. Butler is the No. 10 scorer in the NBA! :o
No matter how bullish (pun intended) any of us were on Jimmy's potential as a pro, I don't think anybody saw that coming -- including Jimmy himself.
If and when Rose gets fully healed (and I mean psychologically, too), it's not a stretch to say that Butler-Rose is every bit as good as Curry-Thompson or any other NBA backcourt. (And I'm not a Bulls fan.)
Crazy!
Rose is healed. He's just soft.
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http://www.nba.com/bulls/community/butler-makes-real-life-difference-400-students (http://www.nba.com/bulls/community/butler-makes-real-life-difference-400-students) Enjoy.
Look closely at the picture. I will personally donate 20 MU t-shirts to this next year, anyone else with me?
"Listen kid... Boardwalk is for fools. You get the greens and the orange and you kick your brothers ass for wearing a sorry ass red t shirt like that. And if he gives you any Shiite, you give your buddy Jimmy F Butler a call and I'll come over and whoop his butt myself."