MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: HutchwasClutch on November 28, 2014, 09:35:30 AM
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Carlino was great and played like a sr leader, Juan and Derrick played w/ poise and made key contributions on both ends, their zone was effective and a very good move by Wojo, many positive take aways from MU's win last night, I certainly wasn't expecting them to beat an ACC school at this point of the season, all that being said-
GA Tech was plain awful at times last night - bad shot selection, defensive breakdowns, outhustled at times, how many times was Tim Welsh almost at a loss for words in describing a bad play of theirs.
I know I shouldn't be throwing cold water on a nice win, but man, GA Tech stunk last night. I can see why Gregory's job is in big trouble.
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The Polish Prince is starting to turn the Warriors in the right direction. Soon he will have developed his Dukie sea legs. We will hold our own against the vaunted Izzoites. Prediction: a 7 point loss for the Warriors; or we eke out a win; or a big blow out by either team. There, all bases are covered. I prefer the second prediction above.
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One team stunk and the other didn't.
Pretty sure that decides the outcome of the majority of college basketball games. I am fine with that as long as we are not the ones who stunk.
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Brian Gregory. Man. He is terrible. Marquette ran the same damn play for Carlino time and time again. No idea how to attack the zone.
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Brian Gregory. Man. He is terrible. Marquette ran the same damn play for Carlino time and time again. No idea how to attack the zone.
And the play time and again were mostly simple inbounds plays - set a screen and free Carlino, bucket.
Exactly the point to my post. Let's not sugar coat it, they really had no business losing to us last night. They just played and were coached incredibly poorly. It wasn't just as simple as one team played pretty well, the other didn't. Gregory is bad. They looked horribly prepared for our zone and everything else.
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All of this about Gregory said, I think it shows how strong of a coach Wojo is going to be. MU was ready, well prepared, had a good game plan going in, score one for Wojo from the bench last night over his counter-part. He clearly out-coached Gregory before and during the game last night.
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We beat a Power 5 team and guaranteed ourselves 2 more games against power 5 teams. IMO, that's what we went to FLA for this year.
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Yep Carlino's performance masked the fact that MU only had one other double digit scorer (Juan with 12), and has seven bench points.
Really the best thing to come out of that game is that Wojo made really good adjustments in just a few days, and the team is by no means throwing in the towel.
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Let's not sugar coat it, they really had no business losing to us last night.
The Vegas line was MU by 3 so Vegas projected us to win. The teams are probably closer than you thought. Always amazed at how often Vegas pretty much nails the point spread.
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This season is a 31-game learning experience. With that in mind, last night was fantastic. Sure, Georgia Tech has glaring flaws, but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
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All wins are good. There are nits to pick and opportunities to learn from every win, as well as every loss. And every losing team laments about how poorly they played. Lord knows that MUScoopers do. This season, more than any other in recent memory, is about the process, not the result. So, yes, there were problems last night. No one denies that. And yes, we can all agree that GaTech also made some poor choices that worked to MU's advantage. Embrace the win. Acknowledge the growth that remains.
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The Vegas line was MU by 3 so Vegas projected us to win. The teams are probably closer than you thought. Always amazed at how often Vegas pretty much nails the point spread.
When I saw we were favored, that really surprised me. I mean, we were coming off two horrid home performances, one a loss, another a near loss. Did the Vegas line start with MU as the favorite I wonder? Did the line move because the betting action was trending heavily MU after GT started as the favorite?
The teams are only closer than thought because Gregory sucks as a coach (and Wojo is darn good).
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This season is a 31-game learning experience. With that in mind, last night was fantastic. Sure, Georgia Tech has glaring flaws, but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
Agreed, I'm not about to sneeze at any win this year.
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The Vegas line was MU by 3 so Vegas projected us to win. The teams are probably closer than you thought. Always amazed at how often Vegas pretty much nails the point spread.
Not sure where you got the Vegas line was Marquette by 3. At Station Casinos yesterday Georgia Tech was favored by 3 and I took Marquette and the 3 points.
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Not sure where you got the Vegas line was Marquette by 3. At Station Casinos yesterday Georgia Tech was favored by 3 and I took Marquette and the 3 points.
Yeah, the vast majority of oddsmakers lines had GT starting as the favorite anywhere from 3-5 points, and staying as the favorite by about that leading up to tip-off. A few lines moved back a little, where GT moved down to 3 or so by game time. Somebody started a thread about us being three point favorites, obviously that scooper was cherry picking, because that was far from the consensus line going in.
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I think that Georgia Tech is a very similar team to Marquette. They had very limited outside shooting but should have been very dominant in the paint.
What they did well? I think GT was good a getting second and third opportunities. This is what kept them in the game as they missed quite a few shoots.
What hurt them?
Their second and third leading scorers had foul trouble and their primary scorer had an off night. This could have been the zone which forced them to shoot from the outside. They did get into the paint on occasion but some of their shots looked like prayers in the paint. Overall, they needed another player to step up which appeared to be their freshman Jackson but he played limited minutes.
Marquette did a good job with the zone. I think it was helpful because it allowed Carlino to play to his strength on offense yet not get exposed or burn energy on the defensive end against a quicker player.
I have to give it to Carlino as he was hitting very tough shots. Some of those three pointers were 2-3ft beyond the arch and in different places. I think without Carlino's hot hand MU would have been in deep trouble. Sometimes you just run into that as an opposing coach. Carlino will be one of those guys who shoots 7 threes a game. When he makes them we will love him when he doesn't then people will hate him.
Marquette also was able to draw a lot of fouls which helped as they shot 3 times more FT then GT did. That is extremely hard to overcome. I haven't watched GT to know if that is common but they were outscored by 16 points at the free throw line.
I do have concerns against MSU who won't foul as much and has better players on the offensive end. If MU can't find consistent scoring from the field then it might turn into a one sided affair.
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Yeah, the vast majority of oddsmakers lines had GT starting as the favorite anywhere from 3-5 points, and staying as the favorite by about that leading up to tip-off. A few lines moved back a little, where GT moved down to 3 or so by game time. Somebody started a thread about us being three point favorites, obviously that scooper was cherry picking, because that was far from the consensus line going in.
I am sure this has been explained several times before on Scoop, but Vegas odds are not a data-driven analysis of how the teams will actually perform. The point spread is merely there to even up the betting. Teams that have a lot of hard core fans (who will wager on their team no matter what) skew the spread.
That is why the odds on the Cubs winning the World Series are hilariously good, especially before the season begins. Tons of those hard core Northside fans will go to a sports book on their annual trip to Las Vegas and wager that this is finally the Cubbies' year. My guess is that there are way more hardcore Marquette fans than Georgia Tech basketball fans, and that is why the early spread made Georgia Tech 3-point dogs.
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Marquette should be winning with 6 top 100 players. Georgia Tech is awful.
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Marquette should be winning with 6 top 100 players. Georgia Tech is awful.
Talent is inexperienced and unbalanced (ie, too short). It is an incomplete team. A process.
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I am sure this has been explained several times before on Scoop, but Vegas odds are not a data-driven analysis of how the teams will actually perform. The point spread is merely there to even up the betting. Teams that have a lot of hard core fans (who will wager on their team no matter what) skew the spread.
That is why the odds on the Cubs winning the World Series are hilariously good, especially before the season begins. Tons of those hard core Northside fans will go to a sports book on their annual trip to Las Vegas and wager that this is finally the Cubbies' year. My guess is that there are way more hardcore Marquette fans than Georgia Tech basketball fans, and that is why the early spread made Georgia Tech 3-point dogs.
Vegas odds are definitely data driven.
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Gregory was great at Dayton but when he left he never seemed to be able to win games
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Talent is inexperienced and unbalanced (ie, too short). It is an incomplete team. A process.
Being short in combination with being slow is the problem. They're not quick enough to effectively double team players and recover quickly to get back into the defensive set - without leaving a gaping hole. MU has been too short in the past, but was quite athletic and quick to overcome that shortfall. See NCAA tourney game against Stanford and Lopez twins. MU was decisively smaller, yet competed toe to toe with a team that boasted two 7 foot NBA players.
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Gregory was great at Dayton but when he left he never seemed to be able to win games
8 years with two NCAA tourney appearances is great?
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8 years with two NCAA tourney appearances is great?
And the first of those was in his first year with an NCAA team he inherited.
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Marquette should be winning with 6 top 100 players. Georgia Tech is awful.
One of a few posters who love pointing this out. Lack of height, depth, balance, experience and experienced coaching means nothing to these yahoos.
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This season is a 31-game learning experience. With that in mind, last night was fantastic. Sure, Georgia Tech has glaring flaws, but the positives far outweigh the negatives.
I love this, brew. It's exactly how I look at the season.
It's a time for the players and coaches to learn about each other and themselves, to define roles, and mostly to improve. Every single win will be a bonus. Beating an ACC team, one that should have destroyed us inside, because we outworked and outcoached them (and, OK, because one of our guys couldn't miss from 3-land) was extra lovely.
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I love this, brew. It's exactly how I look at the season.
It's a time for the players and coaches to learn about each other and themselves, to define roles, and mostly to improve. Every single win will be a bonus. Beating an ACC team, one that should have destroyed us inside, because we outworked and outcoached them (and, OK, because one of our guys couldn't miss from 3-land) was extra lovely.
Totally agree with these two posts. Other than Derrick, have any of these guys had to finish out a game in crunch time at Marquette? Maybe Juan a few times, but not in a leading role. I think it's a very big win early in the season for our confidence. Especially after losing to UNO.
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anyone notice (i forget exactly where it was in the game) when we went on a mini-run and took a 7 point or something lead and the georgia tech calls a timeout, our players were hootin and jumping and wojo looked at them and actually yelled at them to chill, we've got A LOT of game to play here. start acting like we're gonna be here some more. the key to this game was wojo's coaching in the last 2 minutes. if gt can hit any shots or the dude tries a 3 (as he should have) at the buzzer, i really didn't like our chances in overtime.
this was a big win from the standpoint of players confidence in the coach and system and for recriuts to see he can and will coach. now we need to see what wojo will do with what he has. bring in the horses next year and it should help us forget about the duke and wisconsin games this year, unless we can pull something out of our a$$
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Marquette should be winning with 6 top 100 players. Georgia Tech is awful.
Wow! What a simple formula.
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anyone notice (i forget exactly where it was in the game) when we went on a mini-run and took a 7 point or something lead and the georgia tech calls a timeout, our players were hootin and jumping and wojo looked at them and actually yelled at them to chill, we've got A LOT of game to play here. start acting like we're gonna be here some more. the key to this game was wojo's coaching in the last 2 minutes. if gt can hit any shots or the dude tries a 3 (as he should have) at the buzzer, i really didn't like our chances in overtime.
this was a big win from the standpoint of players confidence in the coach and system and for recriuts to see he can and will coach. now we need to see what wojo will do with what he has. bring in the horses next year and it should help us forget about the duke and wisconsin games this year, unless we can pull something out of our a$$
Next year may be frustrating for some as they think a high recruiting class will translate into many wins. It's still going to be a rebuilding year and much of the success next year will be predicated on how much Duane Wilson, Deonte Burton, Steve Taylor, Fischer improve this year. Ellenson will be decent, but most 4 star freshmen don't contribute overwhelmingly in their first years. Sandy Cohen is heralded among team scouts as being ahead in his development and even he has struggled so far with minimal impact on this squad. Year 3 is when I expect this team to take off and make a solid tourney run. The roster will have balance and Wojo will be able to fully implement his system having capable personnel that can execute it.
In the meantime, watch the struggle as it only makes winning and being competitive so much more enjoyable. Sometimes it's good to take the spoiling away for a bit to put things in perspective and adopt a renewed appreciation.
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Next year may be frustrating for some as they think a high recruiting class will translate into many wins. It's still going to be a rebuilding year and much of the success next year will be predicated on how much Duane Wilson, Deonte Burton, Steve Taylor, Fischer improve this year. Ellenson will be decent, but most 4 star freshmen don't contribute overwhelmingly in their first years. Sandy Cohen is heralded among team scouts as being ahead in his development and even he has struggled so far with minimal impact on this squad. Year 3 is when I expect this team to take off and make a solid tourney run. The roster will have balance and Wojo will be able to fully implement his system having capable personnel that can execute it.
In the meantime, watch the struggle as it only makes winning and being competitive so much more enjoyable. Sometimes it's good to take the spoiling away for a bit to put things in perspective and adopt a renewed appreciation.
It's a good thing for us that Ellenson is a 5 star ;)
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Marquette should be winning with 6 top 100 players. Georgia Tech is awful.
You worry about the Badgers and we'll worry about Marquette.
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The Vegas line was MU by 3 so Vegas projected us to win. The teams are probably closer than you thought. Always amazed at how often Vegas pretty much nails the point spread.
The line was Tech by 3 unless a huge amount of money went towards MU just before tip
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It's a good thing for us that Ellenson is a 5 star ;)
Yes and that he's around 6-10 with an elite shot. He'll help open things on offense. I've heard talk he might be a one and done, but I think he'd at least play the 2.5 (which rounds up to 3 years) years his brother will be here.
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I love this, brew. It's exactly how I look at the season.
It's a time for the players and coaches to learn about each other and themselves, to define roles, and mostly to improve. Every single win will be a bonus. Beating an ACC team, one that should have destroyed us inside, because we outworked and outcoached them (and, OK, because one of our guys couldn't miss from 3-land) was extra lovely.
According to KenPom, GT is the third best team....in the state of Georgia (behind UGA and Georgia State).
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Yes and that he's around 6-10 with an elite shot. He'll help open things on offense. I've heard talk he might be a one and done, but I think he'd at least play the 2.5 (which rounds up to 3 years) years his brother will be here.
i really hope so, but 2.5-3 years? not if his brother starts taking accounting classes ;D
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wow-butler is going to be one tough hombre and that's with their back-up coach?
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I am sure this has been explained several times before on Scoop, but Vegas odds are not a data-driven analysis of how the teams will actually perform. The point spread is merely there to even up the betting. Teams that have a lot of hard core fans (who will wager on their team no matter what) skew the spread.
That is why the odds on the Cubs winning the World Series are hilariously good, especially before the season begins. Tons of those hard core Northside fans will go to a sports book on their annual trip to Las Vegas and wager that this is finally the Cubbies' year. My guess is that there are way more hardcore Marquette fans than Georgia Tech basketball fans, and that is why the early spread made Georgia Tech 3-point dogs.
I've seen this on the board multiple times recently, but its just not true. Books dont make real money by getting even bets. They make real money by taking a side. A $1,000 bet by a sharp would be more likely to move the spread more than $5,000 in public money. If the books always wanted even money on both sides you would never see reverse line movement.
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wow-butler is going to be one tough hombre and that's with their back-up coach?
Personally, I thought they'd be dead in the water after Stephens left, but after watching them destroy UNC on the boards, they look like they're in good hands. They look like one of the most physical teams in all of basketball. Solid win vs. Georgetown. I think they have a decent chance at being ranked next week.
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Next year may be frustrating for some as they think a high recruiting class will translate into many wins. It's still going to be a rebuilding year and much of the success next year will be predicated on how much Duane Wilson, Deonte Burton, Steve Taylor, Fischer improve this year. Ellenson will be decent, but most 4 star freshmen don't contribute overwhelmingly in their first years. Sandy Cohen is heralded among team scouts as being ahead in his development and even he has struggled so far with minimal impact on this squad. Year 3 is when I expect this team to take off and make a solid tourney run. The roster will have balance and Wojo will be able to fully implement his system having capable personnel that can execute it.
In the meantime, watch the struggle as it only makes winning and being competitive so much more enjoyable. Sometimes it's good to take the spoiling away for a bit to put things in perspective and adopt a renewed appreciation.
Agree, looking to the tournament next year and making big noise the year after that....unless we make a tournament run this year. :)
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Marquette should be winning with 6 top 100 players. Georgia Tech is awful.
Yup regardless of position, experience, experience of coach, etc they should just win! Jeeze man we saw Kentucky lose in the NIT with a team of McDonald's all Americans.
But since Marquette should be winning with all these players doesn't that mean the inverse of Wisconsin only having two top 100 players (espn ratings) means they shouldn't be winning?
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Yes and that he's around 6-10 with an elite shot. He'll help open things on offense. I've heard talk he might be a one and done, but I think he'd at least play the 2.5 (which rounds up to 3 years) years his brother will be here.
Wally has two year of eligibilty
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Year 3 is when I expect this team to take off and make a solid tourney run. The roster will have balance and Wojo will be able to fully implement his system having capable personnel that can execute it.
I agree with this. I think we'll see improvement this year, see an actual improved team next year, and as long as Henry sticks around for 2 years, really take off in Wojo's third year.
That said, I don't think next year's lineup is necessarily going to look like what everyone might expect right now. Wojo has an open scholarship (thanks to Levin) and it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up with 1-2 more by the time April rolls around. While Henry, Burton, Duane, Jajuan, and Cohen may seem to be penciled in for big impacts, I'm confident there will be more competition for minutes from guys not yet slated to be on the roster.
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I agree with this. I think we'll see improvement this year, see an actual improved team next year, and as long as Henry sticks around for 2 years, really take off in Wojo's third year.
That said, I don't think next year's lineup is necessarily going to look like what everyone might expect right now. Wojo has an open scholarship (thanks to Levin) and it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up with 1-2 more by the time April rolls around. While Henry, Burton, Duane, Jajuan, and Cohen may seem to be penciled in for big impacts, I'm confident there will be more competition for minutes from guys not yet slated to be on the roster.
Will be interesting to see if he goes the juco route to get immediate talent, like Buzz did. That could jumpstart things a bit.
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I agree with this. I think we'll see improvement this year, see an actual improved team next year, and as long as Henry sticks around for 2 years, really take off in Wojo's third year.
That said, I don't think next year's lineup is necessarily going to look like what everyone might expect right now. Wojo has an open scholarship (thanks to Levin) and it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up with 1-2 more by the time April rolls around. While Henry, Burton, Duane, Jajuan, and Cohen may seem to be penciled in for big impacts, I'm confident there will be more competition for minutes from guys not yet slated to be on the roster.
I'm glad you're back Brew!