MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Lighthouse 84 on November 24, 2014, 10:26:27 PM
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Tough call. Could go Juan or DuWill and can't go wrong with either. I'm going with Du. He's a player. He consistently took the ball to the hole, made shots and drew fouls.
2. Juan. Lots of heart and hustle. But some bonehead plays at the end (other than taking the charge).
Teve needs to be better but he had 12 boards.
We'd better get our rebounding and defense better soon. This will be a long year.
Go Warriors.
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Du Wilson. Lead them in second half.
Juan had 6 turnovers, even though 20 points, 9 rebounds.
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Duane. He made free throws. Juan didn't
And bad TOs by Juan.
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Duane
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Duane. He made free throws. Juan didn't
And bad TOs by Juan.
Yup.
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Was going to vote Juan until those three turnovers in the last five minutes. Swaggy Du = SOTG
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Du Wil
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Du.
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Definitely Du Wil. Knew how to close the game, Juan didn't.
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Derrick lead this team tonight. Very impressed with his poise and timely scoring....said no one ever.
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Juan had his mistakes, so did Duane on the back door cuts. I'll stick with Juan, though both are fine choices.
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Duane was the guy we wanted to have the ball down the stretch . By definition I think that makes him the SOTG
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Duane. Nice to see a guard that actually makes plays.
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Duane.
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Duane Wilson. Made his FT's and scored down the stretch (during garbage time, in a tribute to TAMU). Juan couldn't buy a FT. Pretty pathetic that our two seniors Juan and Derrick cannot make better than 50% of their FT's.
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Duane started our final move to take the lead
Juan hustled the whole game
either would be a good choice
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Agree with everyone. Du and Juan are both deserving , but Du has the edge by making all those clutch FT's.
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Duane for being clutch. Also no turnovers. Though 1 rebound (offensive) is poopy. Needs to learn Dominic James' launch into the trees and steal the rebound trick. Could be coaching as well; think Wojo wanted to run and is learning that running without the ball is trouble - might need to get the guards crashing.
Juan a close second for bringing it all game. Just too many turnovers and missed free throws. If he can get there and get some help he can have a nice senior season.
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Du Wilson
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Duane. Give him the rock and let him run the team the rest of the season. He needs to be ready for prime time right away next year with Ellenson on board.
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Juan. Just cause of those last defensive rebounds. What a sight for sore eyes.
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One player wanted the ball at the end. One player knew what to do with it. One player stepped up to the line and made free throws -- and everyone watching knew he was gonna make them.
Duane was the clutch stud.
Juan had a solid all-around game and also was worthy.
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Duane. Nice to see a guard that actually makes plays.
So your thread was a ruse?
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So your thread was a ruse?
If you watched tonight.
I think anything regarding Derrick is fair game til thursday
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Duane.
Juan runner up.
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Duane.
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Duane Wilson. Made his FT's and scored down the stretch (during garbage time, in a tribute to TAMU). Juan couldn't buy a FT. Pretty pathetic that our two seniors Juan and Derrick cannot make better than 50% of their FT's.
I'm not sure you know what garbage time means.
I agree on the FT shooting (even though Juan did make more than 50% of his FTs). That's why picked Duane. Not sure why you are a ripping on a player who had 20 and 9 and was one of the only two players to show up tonight. Both played well. The rest of the team...
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Went with my gut and made it Duane for his crunch time performance.
But after seeing that brutal 1 rebound of his, I think I probably should have gone with Juan for his 20pts, 9 reb, 2 steals in 31 minutes. Oh well, like others said, it had to be one of those two, and the FTs won this game (amazing that Duane is hitting at a 90% rate).
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The refs for calling every ticky tack foul allowing our team to shoot an unrelenting amount of free throws when we did nothing else offensively.
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Juan. Then Duane.
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The refs for calling every ticky tack foul allowing our team to shoot an unrelenting amount of free throws when we did nothing else offensively.
+1 The charge the Anderson drew at the end of the game which should have been an and-1 cutting the lead to 1 was the topper.
Duane Wilson and Juan Anderson played well. Juan had 5 turnovers (though one was Derrick's fault as Juan tried to save a terrible entry pass and threw it to an NJIT player), so Duane is the pick.
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I'm not sure you know what garbage time means.
I agree on the FT shooting (even though Juan did make more than 50% of his FTs). That's why picked Duane. Not sure why you are a ripping on a player who had 20 and 9 and was one of the only two players to show up tonight. Both played well. The rest of the team...
I definitely know what garbage time means, but your previous comments show you do not. Not ripping on Juan. He and Derrick are what they are. Good kids, but Role players. Derrick still cannot shoot, adds nothing offensively, and sure as hell should not be out there when the game is on the line because of woeful FT's. Juan is a tweener who is less than adequate on D.
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I definitely know what garbage time means, but your previous comments show you do not. Not ripping on Juan. He and Derrick are what they are. Good kids, but Role players. Derrick still cannot shoot, adds nothing offensively, and sure as hell should not be out there when the game is on the line because of woeful FT's. Juan is a tweener who is less than adequate on D.
No, I don't think you do. Because there was garbage time in the Ohio State game. But there was no garbage time in the game last night, and you seem to think there was.
Derrick is a role player and I have never advocated for anything other than that. However, he did show a lot on offense in our game against Omaha. Its there but it is far from consistent. Juan is shedding the role player label. His defense does need work but it will get better when he is playing his natural position. I think Juan has looked like our best player so far.
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Went with my gut and made it Duane for his crunch time performance.
But after seeing that brutal 1 rebound of his, I think I probably should have gone with Juan for his 20pts, 9 reb, 2 steals in 31 minutes. Oh well, like others said, it had to be one of those two, and the FTs won this game (amazing that Duane is hitting at a 90% rate).
I am afraid this is going to be a very short list this year.
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The refs for calling every ticky tack foul allowing our team to shoot an unrelenting amount of free throws when we did nothing else offensively.
The refs definitely gave us the more favorable calls in the second half.
Let's remember that the next time we want to blame them for a loss!
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If you watched tonight.
I think anything regarding Derrick is fair game til thursday
I was referring to the fact that he got himself voted off the island, yet here he still is.
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No, I don't think you do. Because there was garbage time in the Ohio State game. But there was no garbage time in the game last night, and you seem to think there was.
Derrick is a role player and I have never advocated for anything other than that. However, he did show a lot on offense in our game against Omaha. Its there but it is far from consistent. Juan is shedding the role player label. His defense does need work but it will get better when he is playing his natural position. I think Juan has looked like our best player so far.
You keep thinking what you want Eagle. That does not make it so. What I saw out of Duane was that he was still trying when we were down about 13 with 4 minutes left. Call that garbage time--I call it playing to the buzzer. Funny--I still remember when we were up by 18 at Louisville with 5 minutes to go, and all those baskets Smith made at "garbage time". But of course that was different, because Loserville finally won. Pretty fine line on what is garbage time. Guess it is in the eye of the beholder. A player plays on.
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You keep thinking what you want Eagle. That does not make it so. What I saw out of Duane was that he was still trying when we were down about 13 with 4 minutes left. Call that garbage time--I call it playing to the buzzer. Funny--I still remember when we were up by 18 at Louisville with 5 minutes to go, and all those baskets Smith made at "garbage time". But of course that was different, because Loserville finally won. Pretty fine line on what is garbage time. Guess it is in the eye of the beholder. A player plays on.
What are you talking about? We haven't been down about 13 with four minutes left in either the OSU or NJIT game. Against OSU we were down 20ish at that time and they had pulled most of their starters and had stopped pressing...or even trying on defense. Hence, garbage time. Against NJIT we were locked in a close battle at the four minute mark. Hence, no garbage time.
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There was absolutely garbage time in the Ohio State game. The Buckeyes were up 71-51 with under three minutes to play until Carlino hit a three with 2:46 left in the game.
I believe more what willie is referencing is that Duane played well over the last 10 minutes of the game, when there was still a shred of a chance. Over that stretch, Duane had 8 points and 2 assists. That said, the margin was never less than 12 during that time and it never really felt like we were going to get back into it. Largely because every time Duane either scored or assisted on a basket, Ohio State answered with a bucket of their own or a trip to the free throw line.
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There was absolutely garbage time in the Ohio State game. The Buckeyes were up 71-51 with under three minutes to play until Carlino hit a three with 2:46 left in the game.
I believe more what willie is referencing is that Duane played well over the last 10 minutes of the game, when there was still a shred of a chance. Over that stretch, Duane had 8 points and 2 assists. That said, the margin was never less than 12 during that time and it never really felt like we were going to get back into it. Largely because every time Duane either scored or assisted on a basket, Ohio State answered with a bucket of their own or a trip to the free throw line.
Absolutely. TAMU dismissed Duane's play by making a deragatoty comment about "garbage time" and that he was awful or a liability the rest of the game. This was done to support his/Buzz's theory that Derrick is the "man". He does not like Duane over his boy Derrick--fine. IMO Duane is the future and already more valuable than the other.
And please TAMU, spare us the platitudes of his elight D, and ignoring the rest: like Poor FT and FG shooting; limited court vision; limited ability to penetrate; etc. But hey he is great at moving the ball side to side.
I will say it again for the last time: Derrick is a great kid, plays hard, has stuck it out for 4 years, but is only a backup PG. He is not elight, not a stud, but is a role player. He does not warrant 30 minutes a game. Maybe 5 each half, and definitely not at crunch time--maybe "garbage time" in deference to the Eagle.
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I gotta agree with willie here. I don't think Duane should have been SOTG, but I think he needs to be on the floor more and if that means it takes minutes from Derrick, then I am fine with that. Duane is going to be a very good college basketball player. He's long, he's quick, he's instinctive.
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I will say it again for the last time: Derrick is a great kid, plays hard, has stuck it out for 4 years, but is only a backup PG. He is not elight, not a stud, but is a role player. He does not warrant 30 minutes a game. Maybe 5 each half, and definitely not at crunch time--maybe "garbage time" in deference to the Eagle.
This exactly.
Der Wilson's play is not a good thing for the offense. He is over rated is a defense player too. I would say average to above average defensive player.
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I probably have said 100+ times that Derrick Wilson should be only a 10-15 mpg player, as he was the year we went to the Elite Eight.
I'm starting to wonder if this is a chicken-egg thing going on here.
Was Buzz believing he had to play Derrick 30 mpg last season an early sign that we weren't an Elite Eight team? Or were we not an Elite Eight team because Derrick played 30 mpg?
Given Wojo's usage of Derrick early this season, I'm buying into the first scenario.
Even Derrick's supporters do so with caveats -- most agree he shouldn't be playing anywhere near these many minutes "but the coach has no other choice."
All I know is that now two straight coaches -- one "smart" enough to take a team on a S16-S16-E8 run and the other a disciple of one of the 5 greatest college coaches ever -- believe Derrick needs to play more than most Scoopers (including me) believe he should.
We can scream at Wojo (as many did at Buzz) for playing Derrick too much, but we have absolutely no say. And we also aren't privy to insider information that Wojo is (and Buzz was). For example, there is a reason Dawson never plays, even if that reason is not immediately apparent to us.
Having said all that ... I still want to see more of Duane at PG as well as at SG. Might playing him a few more minutes at PG cost us a game we might otherwise win? Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way, it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make because I'm all about 2015-16 and beyond.
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I probably have said 100+ times that Derrick Wilson should be only a 10-15 mpg player, as he was the year we went to the Elite Eight.
I'm starting to wonder if this is a chicken-egg thing going on here.
Was Buzz believing he had to play Derrick 30 mpg last season an early sign that we weren't an Elite Eight team? Or were we not an Elite Eight team because Derrick played 30 mpg?
Given Wojo's usage of Derrick early this season, I'm buying into the first scenario.
Even Derrick's supporters do so with caveats -- most agree he shouldn't be playing anywhere near these many minutes "but the coach has no other choice."
All I know is that now two straight coaches -- one "smart" enough to take a team on a S16-S16-E8 run and the other a disciple of one of the 5 greatest college coaches ever -- believe Derrick needs to play more than most Scoopers (including me) believe he should.
We can scream at Wojo (as many did at Buzz) for playing Derrick too much, but we have absolutely no say. And we also aren't privy to insider information that Wojo is (and Buzz was). For example, there is a reason Dawson never plays, even if that reason is not immediately apparent to us.
Having said all that ... I still want to see more of Duane at PG as well as at SG. Might playing him a few more minutes at PG cost us a game we might otherwise win? Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way, it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make because I'm all about 2015-16 and beyond.
True, all of it.
However, the jury is still out on how much playing time Der Wilson will actually get going forward. Line ups and rotations can and do change once conference play starts. Maybe Wojo is easing the younger guys in right now and as the season goes on de Wilson will see less time. Maybe not, I trust the coaches to make that decision as I did with Buzz last season.
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True, all of it.
However, the jury is still out on how much playing time Der Wilson will actually get going forward. Line ups and rotations can and do change once conference play starts. Maybe Wojo is easing the younger guys in right now and as the season goes on de Wilson will see less time. Maybe not, I trust the coaches to make that decision as I did with Buzz last season.
I think most of us can agree that Derrick playing less than 20 mpg would be a good sign. Either it would mean that our younger guards have improved to the point the coach trusts them and is leading to better results on the scoreboard ... or it would mean that Wojo is starting to plan for 2015-16 and beyond.
I didn't care for last year's scenario, in which we were just good enough to be on the edge of contention so the coach felt he had to maximize the minutes of the few players he could trust.
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True, all of it.
However, the jury is still out on how much playing time Der Wilson will actually get going forward. Line ups and rotations can and do change once conference play starts. Maybe Wojo is easing the younger guys in right now and as the season goes on de Wilson will see less time. Maybe not, I trust the coaches to make that decision as I did with Buzz last season.
I tend to agree with this, hopefully. By mid season, talent should have proved out. The bulk of the two guard/three guard rotations should go to Duane, Carlino, and JJJ. Say 100 minutes for the three guard line up with each getting 28-30 minutes per game with Derrick/Dawson/Cohen getting the rest, depending on situations.
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It all comes down to available minutes. The way Wojo seems to be playing, we have the following positions:
PG1
PG2
Wing
Forward
Forward
So that means we need to fill 80 minutes of PG time, and we have 3 players that will do that: Derrick, Duane, and Carlino. At times only one of them will be out there and we'll use another wing, but it seems more often than not we are running 2 PGs, as evidenced by those three players combining to average 78.6 minutes per game so far. 30 mpg is a pretty high amount for a college player, but even if Wojo gives Carlino and Duane both 30 mpg, that still means Derrick will likely get 15-20 minutes.
Here's what I don't get, and what to this point I still haven't seen any of the Derrick bashers address. Who should take those minutes? If you answer Duane, well, he's already averaging 26.8 mpg, which is 2 more than Derrick. If you answer Carlino, he's averaging 27.0 mpg, also more than Derrick. People say Duane should get more, but where are these minutes coming from? Unless Wojo starts channeling his inner Ed Cooley, you aren't going to see Duane get 35+ minutes per game. It's just not going to happen.
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It all comes down to available minutes. The way Wojo seems to be playing, we have the following positions:
PG1
PG2
Wing
Forward
Forward
So that means we need to fill 80 minutes of PG time, and we have 3 players that will do that: Derrick, Duane, and Carlino. At times only one of them will be out there and we'll use another wing, but it seems more often than not we are running 2 PGs, as evidenced by those three players combining to average 78.6 minutes per game so far. 30 mpg is a pretty high amount for a college player, but even if Wojo gives Carlino and Duane both 30 mpg, that still means Derrick will likely get 15-20 minutes.
Here's what I don't get, and what to this point I still haven't seen any of the Derrick bashers address. Who should take those minutes? If you answer Duane, well, he's already averaging 26.8 mpg, which is 2 more than Derrick. If you answer Carlino, he's averaging 27.0 mpg, also more than Derrick. People say Duane should get more, but where are these minutes coming from? Unless Wojo starts channeling his inner Ed Cooley, you aren't going to see Duane get 35+ minutes per game. It's just not going to happen.
Duane can easily fill some minutes at PG to spell Carlino, and JJJ can fill in those minutes when Duane is not playing 2G. Cohen can also fill in at wing minutes for JJJ.
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It all comes down to available minutes. The way Wojo seems to be playing, we have the following positions:
PG1
PG2
Wing
Forward
Forward
So that means we need to fill 80 minutes of PG time, and we have 3 players that will do that: Derrick, Duane, and Carlino. At times only one of them will be out there and we'll use another wing, but it seems more often than not we are running 2 PGs, as evidenced by those three players combining to average 78.6 minutes per game so far. 30 mpg is a pretty high amount for a college player, but even if Wojo gives Carlino and Duane both 30 mpg, that still means Derrick will likely get 15-20 minutes.
Here's what I don't get, and what to this point I still haven't seen any of the Derrick bashers address. Who should take those minutes? If you answer Duane, well, he's already averaging 26.8 mpg, which is 2 more than Derrick. If you answer Carlino, he's averaging 27.0 mpg, also more than Derrick. People say Duane should get more, but where are these minutes coming from? Unless Wojo starts channeling his inner Ed Cooley, you aren't going to see Duane get 35+ minutes per game. It's just not going to happen.
Totally get this PG1/PG2 thing. It's the nature of our roster as it stands. What I'd like to see is when Duane is in at the same time as Derrick & Carlino, that he is PG1. Meaning he brings the ball up, he initiates the offense, he runs the show. As of now, he is definitely "PG2" in this scenario, as either Derrick or Carlino bring it up and get things started when they're all in at the same time. Derrick can guard the opposition's PG, Duane should take the lead fully and completely on O. Need to maximize his touches and have him get the feel of being the QB. He looks to be a natural at it.
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Totally get this PG1/PG2 thing. It's the nature of our roster as it stands. What I'd like to see is when Duane is in at the same time as Derrick & Carlino, that he is PG1. Meaning he brings the ball up, he initiates the offense, he runs the show. As of now, he is definitely "PG2" in this scenario, as either Derrick or Carlino bring it up and get things started when they're all in at the same time. Derrick can guard the opposition's PG, Duane should take the lead fully and completely on O. Need to maximize his touches and have him get the feel of being the QB. He looks to be a natural at it.
He definitely does. I absolutely love the look of this kid, and I think all this will come in time. This season could be great for Duane because it's basically a year of on-the-job training where he gets to learn without the worry of being on a short leash. Sure, Wojo will pull guys for stupid stuff (Another three, Steve?!?) but for the most part you'll get back in before long or only sit until the end of the game simply because we don't have the depth.
Duane can easily fill some minutes at PG to spell Carlino, and JJJ can fill in those minutes when Duane is not playing 2G. Cohen can also fill in at wing minutes for JJJ.
Right now I think the only people limiting JJJ and Cohen's minutes are JJJ and Cohen. JJJ sat the second half against NJIT because of some boneheaded decisions in the first half. He's too lethargic on defense and always wants to gamble on the steal, which is a killer for a team that doesn't have great support defenders behind him. That along with crap shot selection had him getting pine. I think Duane will probably get some chances at the wing as well, but I really think JJJ and Cohen are going to be restricted to playing either the wing or one of the forward roles, at least until Luke gets back. For now, I can't see any way Derrick doesn't get 20+ with the way Wojo is running things.
Now if Luke comes in and bumps everyone down a bit so they can play more natural roles, then I could see Derrick's minutes getting trimmed. At that point, we may go to more of a 1.5 PG offense, which would mean Duane and Matt might get some run with JJJ as the other guard, but for now, there's just no way we are going to not see Derrick.
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Totally get this PG1/PG2 thing. It's the nature of our roster as it stands. What I'd like to see is when Duane is in at the same time as Derrick & Carlino, that he is PG1. Meaning he brings the ball up, he initiates the offense, he runs the show. As of now, he is definitely "PG2" in this scenario, as either Derrick or Carlino bring it up and get things started when they're all in at the same time. Derrick can guard the opposition's PG, Duane should take the lead fully and completely on O. Need to maximize his touches and have him get the feel of being the QB. He looks to be a natural at it.
I don't see the playing time as necessarily being between, Carlino, Duane and Derrick. When Fischer plays he is not going to take Taylor or Juan's minutes, he is going to take one of the guards minutes. Also Burton will play more and probably Cohen and JJJ.
Fischer 5, Taylor 4, Juan 3, Duane 2 Carlino 1.
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I am keeping my expectations low for Fischer as I am for the season in general. There are going to many highs and lows this year and I'm just excited to see the young guys grow and hopefully start to gel more as the season progresses.
I'm also excited to see Wojo to continue to grow and see how he adapts to this roster. The future is bright for MU. Just trying to respect the process and have a little patience with undersized and inexperienced team from the head coach on down.
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I don't see the playing time as necessarily being between, Carlino, Duane and Derrick. When Fischer plays he is not going to take Taylor or Juan's minutes, he is going to take one of the guards minutes. Also Burton will play more and probably Cohen and JJJ.
Fischer 5, Taylor 4, Juan 3, Duane 2 Carlino 1.
Right, I'm saying that I'd rather see Duane as the lead PG rather than as the 2, even when Derrick and Carlino are on the court with him. I'm happy with the PT he's getting, and playing the 2 is infinitely better than not playing at all. I just think the more he plays at the 1 against various competition this year, the better he and the team will be in the long run (and the short run too).
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Right, I'm saying that I'd rather see Duane as the lead PG rather than as the 2, even when Derrick and Carlino are on the court with him. I'm happy with the PT he's getting, and playing the 2 is infinitely better than not playing at all. I just think the more he plays at the 1 against various competition this year, the better he and the team will be in the long run (and the short run too).
Agree, kind of. If derrick is in the game and not playing the point then he is even more of an offensive liability. We need the 2 to score and the 1 to score and penetrate at least a little.
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Absolutely. TAMU dismissed Duane's play by making a deragatoty comment about "garbage time" and that he was awful or a liability the rest of the game. This was done to support his/Buzz's theory that Derrick is the "man". He does not like Duane over his boy Derrick--fine. IMO Duane is the future and already more valuable than the other.
And please TAMU, spare us the platitudes of his elight D, and ignoring the rest: like Poor FT and FG shooting; limited court vision; limited ability to penetrate; etc. But hey he is great at moving the ball side to side.
I will say it again for the last time: Derrick is a great kid, plays hard, has stuck it out for 4 years, but is only a backup PG. He is not elight, not a stud, but is a role player. He does not warrant 30 minutes a game. Maybe 5 each half, and definitely not at crunch time--maybe "garbage time" in deference to the Eagle.
Ihave posted repeatedly that derrick is a backup pg deserving of about ten minutes a game. Duane is the future, but right now we need him at sg. I want him to get more minutes than Johnson at this point. And yes, in the osu game Duane was a huge liability on d and never played the pg position. He had a nice offensive run in the last six minutes (also known as garbage time).
You see me posting Willie but you do but observe what is actually being written
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Sultan,
While I usually agree with your analysis, Juan is absolutely terrible off the ball on both ends of the court.
He can't set a screen or a pick, he's getting tossed around while cutting and can't box out a 6-footer from NJIT.
He looks gaudy, but his overall game is abysmal. Unfortunately, that's all Wojo's got.
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I just thought Juan kept us in the game when we needed him to. But really I'm not all that vested.
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Ihave posted repeatedly that derrick is a backup pg deserving of about ten minutes a game. Duane is the future, but right now we need him at sg. I want him to get more minutes than Johnson at this point. And yes, in the osu game Duane was a huge liability on d and never played the pg position. He had a nice offensive run in the last six minutes (also known as garbage time).
You see me posting Willie but you do but observe what is actually being written
Some are very guilty of selective reading.
TAMU, you are spot on about Duane in the OSU game. He was far from the only offender, but his defense was abysmal and he did little offensively until garbage time. Stop wasting your time trying to appease the most joyless Scooper out there.