MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: drbob on November 24, 2014, 09:23:02 PM
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This is not a talented team. Don't expect Wojo to make a silk purse from a sow's ear !!!
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You need to save this excuse for Wisconsin/ GT, etc. You've invalidated the excuse already, by bringing it out for NJIT.
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Were in a Nailbiter with NJIT........... This is insane....
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Disagree. There is definite talent here. Phenomenal athleticism. The problem is they just aren't basketball players.
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Disagree. There is definite talent here. Phenomenal athleticism. The problem is they just aren't basketball players.
:) :) :) :) :) :)
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Everyone on the roster, outside of maybe Wilson and Dawson were HIGHLY recruited. I'm not accepting that. These guys are getting beat by 2 star kids. There is plenty of talent to whip teams like NJIT.
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MU is in the Top 10 for spending money on our basketball program. Did I hear NJIT is the only Independent left and can't qualify for NCAA tournament? Wonder what they spend? Obviously Buzz blew our tuition money on something - not sure what. Administration let us down and now this team with no talent has no hustle. Incredible embarrassment !
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We need Derrick to put us on his back and lead us to victory. Time for him as captain to rally the troops and take control of this game.
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We need Derrick to put us on his back and lead us to victory. Time for him as captain to rally the troops and take control of this game.
So much for the self imposed ban.
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6 RSCI Top 100 players. Once Luke Fisher is here it will be 7. On paper it may be our most talented team in 30+ years.
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6 RSCI Top 100 players. Once Luke Fisher is here it will be 7. On paper it may be our most talented team in 30+ years.
Davante, Jae, DJO, Jimmy, not RSCI top-100. Jamail, EWill, Juan, Steve, all RSCI top-100. Maybe those rankings are a tad overrated, just like our players.
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We need Derrick to put us on his back and lead us to victory. Time for him as captain to rally the troops and take control of this game.
Ahhhh, the pointless obsession resurfaces. Equilibrium restored.
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You don't win games on paper. I have been a die-hard warrior fan for over 40 years, so it does hurt to watch this fiasco. Even if we pull it out and win it will still be a pathetic showing.
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Ahhhh, the pointless obsession resurfaces. Equilibrium restored.
Not at all. I just want to see him do what captains do...and start to show why he's being played big minutes.
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Not at all. I just want to see him do what captains do...and start to show why he's being played big minutes.
Ners not a Derrick apologist but he was clearly our third best all around player tonight behind Anderson and Duane Wilson.
You may want to jump on Carlino and JJJ for a bit. Derrick actually being the least of our problems may be our biggest problem.
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We need Derrick to put us on his back and lead us to victory. Time for him as captain to rally the troops and take control of this game.
What a douche.
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Interesting tidbit about how Carlino's great uncle played for Al McGuire. My guess is that if we put him in the game, he'd do a much better job of staying in front of his man. Nice offense tonight Carlino going 0 for 5. You're garbage.
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Interesting tidbit about how Carlino's great uncle played for Al McGuire. My guess is that if we put him in the game, he'd do a much better job of staying in front of his man. Nice offense tonight Carlino going 0 for 5. You're garbage.
There's a difference between critical and insulting. Carlino had a rough game tonight but I thought he was fine the first two games and fine on offense in the third.
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Well if there's one thing we know going forward, it's that Ners is gonna be down $500 by seasons end.
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There's a difference between critical and insulting. Carlino had a rough game tonight but I thought he was fine the first two games and fine on offense in the third.
What's insulting is that he isn't bringing much to the table for being one of the more experienced guys on this roster.
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We need Derrick to put us on his back and lead us to victory. Time for him as captain to rally the troops and take control of this game.
You are a broken juke box.
Hey, tell us about d. Wilsons shortcomings. Let's do that again. None of us know. We need a YMCA runner up to tell us.
How many practices have you watched?
How many sit-downs with Wojo and Buzz have you had?
You clearly know so much. I can't wait for the opinion you have given 123689 times.
You are an awesome poster here. How is that vote working out?
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You are a broken juke box.
Hey, tell us about d. Wilsons shortcomings. Let's do that again. None of us know. We need a YMCA runner up to tell us.
How many practices have you watched?
How many sit-downs with Wojo and Buzz have you had?
You clearly know so much. I can't wait for the opinion you have given 123689 times.
You are an awesome poster here. How is that vote working out?
D. Wilson is our best perimeter defender and the best option to bring the ball up under a press.
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Geez, it is great to be fans, but there is a point you have to just realize these are students playing basketball for our entertainment. Calling a student garbage is way out of line. I do like the new Carlino look. When he came on the floor it was like "who is the new Marquette player?" In anycase, if this is going to give you an ulcer, you need to step away.
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D. Wilson is our best perimeter defender and the best option to bring the ball up under a press.
Fine. I also think it's funny that some here think we can play zone, though. Wilson doesn't have any lateral quickness and there is no help defense in a zone unless the ball handler penetrates the paint/rim. If you want to play a great zone, you need to recruit for it. Carlino? Lateral quickness and huge wingspan? Yup. He's the second coming of Carter-Williams.
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Fine. I also think it's funny that some here think we can play zone, though. Wilson doesn't have any lateral quickness and there is no help defense in a zone unless the ball handler penetrates the paint/rim. If you want to play a great zone, you need to recruit for it. Carlino? Lateral quickness and huge wingspan? Yup. He's the second coming of Carter-Williams.
We played zone tonight on a possession or two and were shredded. LMAO @ Carter-Williams.
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I guess (or should have known) that the vote won't make any difference. The good news is that DeWil is a senior so a certain poster won't know what to fixate on after another 30 or so games.
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"Talent" is not the issue. These guys could stay with anyone on a playground. The issue is learning and applying what is learned. Slow on the uptake and even slower on the application. A Lot of bad habits to overcome. Saw brief flashes last night but this is going to take a while...very frustrating.
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There is talent. It is inexperienced. And all the same size. And not very good at defense. Learning a new system. I see Juan, Matt, and Derrick desperately trying to lead, but only one has had consistent results. Carlino needs to see the ball go in the basket.
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"Talent" is not the issue. These guys could stay with anyone on a playground. The issue is learning and applying what is learned. Slow on the uptake and even slower on the application. A Lot of bad habits to overcome. Saw brief flashes last night but this is going to take a while...very frustrating.
+1
I was wondering if maybe Buzz' aversion to set plays in the half court offense is bringing the team down now. Wojo runs a lot more set plays and they have seemed to work in most cases, but I don't think are guys are used to playing like that. It will take some time but they should get better as the year goes on.
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Ners not a Derrick apologist but he was clearly our third best all around player tonight behind Anderson and Duane Wilson.
You may want to jump on Carlino and JJJ for a bit. Derrick actually being the least of our problems may be our biggest problem.
I agree Carlino and JJJ were bad but both had better O-Ratings than Derrick. At this point all DeWill's minutes should be going to Duane, JJJ or Dawson.
O Ratings:
Derrick - 26
Carlino - 39
JJJ - 79
Cohen (for those interested) 79 - Hard to post a decent O-Rating in 11 minutes.
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Well if there's one thing we know going forward, it's that Ners is gonna be down $500 by seasons end.
There's another bet for $500 between me and Lenny that may make it a push. I said Newbill would get drafted at season's end. So far that's looking good. The other one? Not so much.
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+1
I was wondering if maybe Buzz' aversion to set plays in the half court offense is bringing the team down now. Wojo runs a lot more set plays and they have seemed to work in most cases, but I don't think are guys are used to playing like that. It will take some time but they should get better as the year goes on.
Probably, it all plays into what we are seeing. Wojo learning on the job, new system, basically new players and undersized to boot. We really started from scratch this year and it shows. Look for the little bit of progress each game. This is gonna take a while, I, along with just about everyone else was too optimistic going in.
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Hard to post a decent O-Rating in 11 minutes.
Actually its very easy. As you point out so often, Pomeroy doesn't count the o-ratings of players who play under ten minutes. Now you use this as a justification for why certain players you prefer have such low o-ratings. The real reason Pomeroy doesn't count it is because such a small sample size tends to exaggerate the results...in both directions. Someone playing a short a minute of time has an equal chance of having their o-rating exaggerated in a positive or negative direction.
But, Sandy did have a nice 11 minutes. Hope to see more from him. Derrick had an abysmal offensive game but a very solid defensive one. Guarded NJIT's best player, Damon Lynn for most of the game. Held him to 4-20 from the fields (3-12 from 3, 1-8 from 2). With Carlino playing turnstile D, I don't know if we would have won without that. Hopefully going forward we can see Derrick combine his offense from the Omaha game and his defense from the NJIT game.
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Wojo seemed to have a very direct trigger last night. After Cohen threw that pass to nobody, he put his head down and started walking to the bench. He knew. When Derrick had a couple of bad possessions in a row, he knew he was coming out. Deonte had another bad defensive possession, he looked to the bench. Sandy has been a very pleasant surprise and I hope he keeps getting minutes. However, when Luke comes back, either Sandy's, STjr's, or Deonte's minutes are going to suffer. If Juan keeps playing like he has, he will still get his minutes.
The whole team has to commit to defensive rebounding. To be flat-footed, or worse, have some guys leaking out when the team is struggling to get a stop is not helping.
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Wojo seemed to have a very direct trigger last night. After Cohen threw that pass to nobody, he put his head down and started walking to the bench. He knew. When Derrick had a couple of bad possessions in a row, he knew he was coming out. Deonte had another bad defensive possession, he looked to the bench. Sandy has been a very pleasant surprise and I hope he keeps getting minutes. However, when Luke comes back, either Sandy's, STjr's, or Deonte's minutes are going to suffer. If Juan keeps playing like he has, he will still get his minutes.
The whole team has to commit to defensive rebounding. To be flat-footed, or worse, have some guys leaking out when the team is struggling to get a stop is not helping.
These next few games are really Steve's time to show what he's capable of. With Fischer becoming eligible in a few weeks and Henry joining next year's squad, Steve's PT could take a hit, especially if his D doesn't improve.
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Interesting tidbit about how Carlino's great uncle played for Al McGuire. My guess is that if we put him in the game, he'd do a much better job of staying in front of his man. Nice offense tonight Carlino going 0 for 5. You're garbage.
Very classy.
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6 RSCI Top 100 players. Once Luke Fisher is here it will be 7. On paper it may be our most talented team in 30+ years.
On computer screen, this may be our silliest comment in Scoop history.
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Inexperience. we all knew this coming in. That is the word to remember this year. Some chose to ignore it or didn't live through this a few times and didn't understand what this can mean.
Talent, yes, but not over the top talent. There is talent but it isn't the type of talent that makes up for inexperience. The talent isn't top 25 or top 10 type of talent that is NBA ready and can simply come in, roll the ball out, and they will win. It is inexperienced talent that needs to learn and develop to be at BE level quality and consistency.
Wojo is not putting together a piece meal team at the last minute and instead looking to longer term stability. He isn't Buzz and won't piece together a team of misfits at the last minute during the spring and summer. Think longer term and good student athletes with high level talent - this is Wojo - he is part of Marquette the school - not just running a basketball program. This is good for MU long term and good for MU as an institution. Basketball will market MU in a positive way and we will win. Just won't win right now.
Wojo is developing the talent. This takes time. Development isn't an instant fix. It takes a year or two. One of the reasons I thought it would take a season or two for Wojo's development/basics to pay off is the initial step back and learning how to do it the right way. Teaching fundamentals makes players take a step back initially. Long term outlook by Wojo not a short term fix. Not looking for a short term instant fix (e.g. Deonte sitting); do it the right way and buy in. Guys will get it and mentally thinks will speed up for them doing it fundamentally right. I think we'll even start to see this later this month and next month.
On Development. Think of something you do that you had to take a step back to improve on and relearn a bit. It slows one down at first. It challenges oneself mentally not to fall into the old habit that gets it done quicker in the short term.
I don't expect a lot from this team. However, I still think we will start to see some results in January. Even if not a lot of wins due to the talent level of teams we play going up, we will see improvement. That is what I want to see. In a word Development.
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Inexperience. we all knew this coming in. That is the word to remember this year. Some chose to ignore it or didn't live through this a few times and didn't understand what this can mean.
Talent, yes, but not over the top talent. There is talent but it isn't the type of talent that makes up for inexperience. The talent isn't top 25 or top 10 type of talent that is NBA ready and can simply come in, roll the ball out, and they will win. It is inexperienced talent that needs to learn and develop to be at BE level quality and consistency.
Wojo is not putting together a piece meal team at the last minute and instead looking to longer term stability. He isn't Buzz and won't piece together a team of misfits at the last minute during the spring and summer. Think longer term and good student athletes with high level talent - this is Wojo - he is part of Marquette the school - not just running a basketball program. This is good for MU long term and good for MU as an institution. Basketball will market MU in a positive way and we will win. Just won't win right now.
Wojo is developing the talent. This takes time. Development isn't an instant fix. It takes a year or two. One of the reasons I thought it would take a season or two for Wojo's development/basics to pay off is the initial step back and learning how to do it the right way. Teaching fundamentals makes players take a step back initially. Long term outlook by Wojo not a short term fix. Not looking for a short term instant fix (e.g. Deonte sitting); do it the right way and buy in. Guys will get it and mentally thinks will speed up for them doing it fundamentally right. I think we'll even start to see this later this month and next month.
On Development. Think of something you do that you had to take a step back to improve on and relearn a bit. It slows one down at first. It challenges oneself mentally not to fall into the old habit that gets it done quicker in the short term.
I don't expect a lot from this team. However, I still think we will start to see some results in January. Even if not a lot of wins due to the talent level of teams we play going up, we will see improvement. That is what I want to see. In a word Development.
Outstanding post, GOO.
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Inexperience. we all knew this coming in. That is the word to remember this year. Some chose to ignore it or didn't live through this a few times and didn't understand what this can mean.
Talent, yes, but not over the top talent. There is talent but it isn't the type of talent that makes up for inexperience. The talent isn't top 25 or top 10 type of talent that is NBA ready and can simply come in, roll the ball out, and they will win. It is inexperienced talent that needs to learn and develop to be at BE level quality and consistency.
Wojo is not putting together a piece meal team at the last minute and instead looking to longer term stability. He isn't Buzz and won't piece together a team of misfits at the last minute during the spring and summer. Think longer term and good student athletes with high level talent - this is Wojo - he is part of Marquette the school - not just running a basketball program. This is good for MU long term and good for MU as an institution. Basketball will market MU in a positive way and we will win. Just won't win right now.
Wojo is developing the talent. This takes time. Development isn't an instant fix. It takes a year or two. One of the reasons I thought it would take a season or two for Wojo's development/basics to pay off is the initial step back and learning how to do it the right way. Teaching fundamentals makes players take a step back initially. Long term outlook by Wojo not a short term fix. Not looking for a short term instant fix (e.g. Deonte sitting); do it the right way and buy in. Guys will get it and mentally thinks will speed up for them doing it fundamentally right. I think we'll even start to see this later this month and next month.
On Development. Think of something you do that you had to take a step back to improve on and relearn a bit. It slows one down at first. It challenges oneself mentally not to fall into the old habit that gets it done quicker in the short term.
I don't expect a lot from this team. However, I still think we will start to see some results in January. Even if not a lot of wins due to the talent level of teams we play going up, we will see improvement. That is what I want to see. In a word Development.
Bingo.
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Outstanding post, GOO.
Agree. Well done.
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Derrick had an abysmal offensive game but a very solid defensive one. Guarded NJIT's best player, Damon Lynn for most of the game. Held him to 4-20 from the fields (3-12 from 3, 1-8 from 2). With Carlino playing turnstile D, I don't know if we would have won without that. Hopefully going forward we can see Derrick combine his offense from the Omaha game and his defense from the NJIT game.
When it comes to offense, I never expect consistency from Derrick. He had games last year similar to the Omaha game (ASU really stands out, there were a few others) but he won't likely ever give that on a nightly basis. But you are right about his defense on Lynn, especially in the last 8 minutes. I re-watched that portion of the game. Lynn was primarily guarded by Derrick during that time. When Derrick was on him, he went 0-5 from the field. Derrick did a good job not just harassing him but also pushing him into help defense (though on one of those occasions he pushed him to Carlino, who mustered a classic turnstile swipe at the ball, though Lynn missed the layup). His only make was a 3-pointer right over Duane Wilson.
Derrick is what he is. A solid (not spectacular) defensive player and a below average offensive player. He can't shoot, but when he's on his game, he can drive and create, and he won't turn the ball over. I'm glad to see him playing with more dynamic offensive players this year at the 2 position in Carlino and Duane -- they are much better compliments to make up for Derrick's deficiencies than Jake ever was.
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When it comes to offense, I never expect consistency from Derrick. He had games last year similar to the Omaha game (ASU really stands out, there were a few others) but he won't likely ever give that on a nightly basis. But you are right about his defense on Lynn, especially in the last 8 minutes. I re-watched that portion of the game. Lynn was primarily guarded by Derrick during that time. When Derrick was on him, he went 0-5 from the field. Derrick did a good job not just harassing him but also pushing him into help defense (though on one of those occasions he pushed him to Carlino, who mustered a classic turnstile swipe at the ball, though Lynn missed the layup). His only make was a 3-pointer right over Duane Wilson.
Derrick is what he is. A solid (not spectacular) defensive player and a below average offensive player. He can't shoot, but when he's on his game, he can drive and create, and he won't turn the ball over. I'm glad to see him playing with more dynamic offensive players this year at the 2 position in Carlino and Duane -- they are much better compliments to make up for Derrick's deficiencies than Jake ever was.
Sorry, hanging your hat on this guy for 30 plus minutes per game provides for many more losses. His defense is just OK. I have seen many guys blow right by him. He is not a great defensive player to make up for the huge offensive liabilities. He is "solid" defensively, but that does not warrant playing him as much as some view it.
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So, the solution is to
(A) Play Carlino more at the point. Oh, wait, he hasn't taken off yet, offensively, and has struggled defensively.
(B) Play Duane more. Offensively, I am ok with this. I just saw him trail an abundance of guys cutting back door last night and am not sure he has a hope of containing a quality PG.
(C) Play the mystery man more. I have know idea why Dawson isn't seeing the floor, but I am guessing Wojo has his reasons.
(D) Continue to play Derrick a lot of minutes because he understands the offense and isn't a complete revolving door on defense, even though he is a baaaaaddddd shooter.
Eventually, I think Duane will start getting more minutes at the point. However, as the roster is currently constructed, I don't see how Derrick doesn't get extended run for the foreseeable future.
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Sorry, hanging your hat on this guy for 30 plus minutes per game provides for many more losses. His defense is just OK. I have seen many guys blow right by him. He is not a great defensive player to make up for the huge offensive liabilities. He is "solid" defensively, but that does not warrant playing him as much as some view it.
Well, the problem is the alternative. Carlino is better offensively, but he's not even a sieve on defense. At least a sieve stops the big pieces of sediment. Duane is better offensively, but still a work in progress on defense. Dawson is worse offensively and worse defensively. And at the end of the day, most of the time two of these four will be out there together.
It's easy to say "let's play Carlino and Duane both 40" but that's just stupid. We all know that won't happen. And from a defensive perspective, that'd be suicide against any decent guards. We only have the players on this roster to work with, and Derrick, like it or not, is one of the better players from a net perspective on this roster. He's going to play. Some people may not like that, just like they didn't like it last year, but it's reality. Buzz looked at this roster and knew Derrick had to play. Wojo looked at this roster and knew Derrick had to play. When the season is all said and done, he will likely average 20-25 minutes.
Maybe, maybe when Luke gets back, we'll end up working more zone in, which will lessen the need for Derrick. He's our best man-on-man defender in the backcourt, but in a zone we could get away with sitting him more in favor of the better offensive players. But until we see that change, and especially until we see some actual effort out of some of the other guys that aren't playing defense, you're going to get all the Derrick you can handle.
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When it comes to offense, I never expect consistency from Derrick.
I actually expect excruciating consistency from Derrick.
The vast majority of his games have been just like last night's. The games like he had against Omaha this season and Arizona State last season were outliers -- significantly outside the norm.
The problem Wojo faces this season is that while Mayo and even Jake could play a little D if they focused on it, Derrick is the only perimeter defender on this year's roster who currently can stay reasonably close to his man. (Note that I said "currently." I'm hoping for improvement from JJJ and Duane.) So if Wojo takes Derrick off the floor, he has zero perimeter defenders. It's a difficult conundrum.
So far, I really have few complaints about how Wojo is dividing the backcourt minutes. He obviously is searching for the right combinations. I think he saw yesterday that Duane has the "want to" to be a good offensive player, be it at the 1 or 2. It sure would be nice if Duane would improve on D.
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I actually expect excruciating consistency from Derrick.
The vast majority of his games have been just like last night's. The games like he had against Omaha this season and Arizona State last season were outliers -- significantly outside the norm.
The problem Wojo faces this season is that while Mayo and even Jake could play a little D if they focused on it, Derrick is the only perimeter defender on this year's roster who currently can stay reasonably close to his man. (Note that I said "currently." I'm hoping for improvement from JJJ and Duane.) So if Wojo takes Derrick off the floor, he has zero perimeter defenders. It's a difficult conundrum.
So far, I really have few complaints about how Wojo is dividing the backcourt minutes. He obviously is searching for the right combinations. I think he saw yesterday that Duane has the "want to" to be a good offensive player, be it at the 1 or 2. It sure would be nice if Duane would improve on D.
Agree completely. The good news is that it's easier to teach a player, especially in-season, to become a better defender than it is to teach a player to be a true threat offensively.
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Does anyone know if there are any recruits for 2015 Wojo is looking at? Am thinking of a confident point
guard who would take over and run the offense. I hope Nick can do it. But 2 are better than 1.
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Does anyone know if there are any recruits for 2015 Wojo is looking at? Am thinking of a confident point
guard who would take over and run the offense. I hope Nick can do it. But 2 are better than 1.
He's in on a few. MarQus Lovett matches what you are describing.
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I actually expect excruciating consistency from Derrick.
The vast majority of his games have been just like last night's. The games like he had against Omaha this season and Arizona State last season were outliers -- significantly outside the norm.
The problem Wojo faces this season is that while Mayo and even Jake could play a little D if they focused on it, Derrick is the only perimeter defender on this year's roster who currently can stay reasonably close to his man. (Note that I said "currently." I'm hoping for improvement from JJJ and Duane.) So if Wojo takes Derrick off the floor, he has zero perimeter defenders. It's a difficult conundrum.
So far, I really have few complaints about how Wojo is dividing the backcourt minutes. He obviously is searching for the right combinations. I think he saw yesterday that Duane has the "want to" to be a good offensive player, be it at the 1 or 2. It sure would be nice if Duane would improve on D.
My only problem with this thinking is that I've seen Derrick get burnt several times in the extended D we're playing this year too. If the difference between him and a guy like Duane or Sandy or even Dawson on defense is minimal (because they're all getting burnt to varying degrees), what's the point of playing him over any of them, much less heavy minutes?
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1) New coach? Check.
2) New style of play? Check.
3) New philosophy? Check.
4) New lineup with almost no returning experience? Check.
5) Missing a key player for...three more weeks? Check.
6) Same old hysterical over-reaction from a segment of the fan base? Check.
Numbers 1 through 5, in my opinion, explain a lot of what we are seeing now. By January, it will look a lot different.
Number 6 is just sad. Let's calm down, shall we? We ALL knew that this team was incredibly inexperienced and this year was going to be rough, especially early on. If you want to be hysterical, go run for Congress.
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Well, the problem is the alternative. Carlino is better offensively, but he's not even a sieve on defense. At least a sieve stops the big pieces of sediment. Duane is better offensively, but still a work in progress on defense. Dawson is worse offensively and worse defensively. And at the end of the day, most of the time two of these four will be out there together.
It's easy to say "let's play Carlino and Duane both 40" but that's just stupid. We all know that won't happen. And from a defensive perspective, that'd be suicide against any decent guards. We only have the players on this roster to work with, and Derrick, like it or not, is one of the better players from a net perspective on this roster. He's going to play. Some people may not like that, just like they didn't like it last year, but it's reality. Buzz looked at this roster and knew Derrick had to play. Wojo looked at this roster and knew Derrick had to play. When the season is all said and done, he will likely average 20-25 minutes.
Maybe, maybe when Luke gets back, we'll end up working more zone in, which will lessen the need for Derrick. He's our best man-on-man defender in the backcourt, but in a zone we could get away with sitting him more in favor of the better offensive players. But until we see that change, and especially until we see some actual effort out of some of the other guys that aren't playing defense, you're going to get all the Derrick you can handle.
Well.....since "we will be getting all the Derrick we can handle"... we will "be getting a hell of a lot more losses than we can handle", and it does not take a rocket scientist to discern that.
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Well.....since "we will be getting all the Derrick we can handle"... we will "be getting a hell of a lot more losses than we can handle", and it does not take a rocket scientist to discern that.
So we are going to be pinning this season on Derrick too just like last season? That should be fun...
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Does anyone know if there are any recruits for 2015 Wojo is looking at? Am thinking of a confident point
guard who would take over and run the offense. I hope Nick can do it. But 2 are better than 1.
I think the job should be Duane's, full-time, effective immediately. Live with the growing pains, this is going to be a frustrating season anyway. He can spread the floor with his shooting, and most importantly he is the only one on the team that has displayed the ability to break down the defense off the dribble-drive, leading to opportunities for himself and others. Having a PG with this ability is pretty much crucial to offensive effectiveness these days. Playing him there now will pay massive dividends next year when we add Henry to the fold, IMHO.
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I think the job should be Duane's, full-time, effective immediately. Live with the growing pains, this is going to be a frustrating season anyway. He can spread the floor with his shooting, and most importantly he is the only one on the team that has displayed the ability to break down the defense off the dribble-drive, leading to opportunities for himself and others. Having a PG with this ability is pretty much crucial to offensive effectiveness these days. Playing him there now will pay massive dividends next year when we add Henry to the fold, IMHO.
Hard to argue this point... Better to take the pain now and have an experienced Soph PG for next year.
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So we are going to be pinning this season on Derrick too just like last season? That should be fun...
This just reminded me of all the discussions here over how important practice is and if it means more to a coach when choosing his lineup than the games do.
I'm kinda in the middle on this - I think the games are just as important even though much more time is spent practicing.
The best example from yesterday's game was Duane Wilson wanting to take over in the last few minutes. I don't think that is something that a coach can necessarily learn from practice - who really wants the ball with the game on the line.
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Well yeah. Duane looked great yesterday. Of the young players out there, he is by far the one I am most excited about.
But I guess my point is that if someone looks at that game and pins all the issues on Derrick, they aren't seeing everything. There was a ton of blame to go around.
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My only problem with this thinking is that I've seen Derrick get burnt several times in the extended D we're playing this year too. If the difference between him and a guy like Duane or Sandy or even Dawson on defense is minimal (because they're all getting burnt to varying degrees), what's the point of playing him over any of them, much less heavy minutes?
Fair question, and please know that (as my posting history will show), I am not the biggest Derrick fan. I don't think he is a high-major PG.
Derrick does get burned sometimes (everybody does), but I believe he gets burned quite a bit less often than JJJ does and, especially, Duane does. Our rebounding blows and Derrick is a pretty good rebounder for a little guy. He also isn't a risk-taker on offense while the younger players around him (plus Juan) tend to take a lot of risks. All of the stuff I mentioned in this paragraph no doubt gives a coach some comfort.
I still wouldn't play Derrick more than 20 mpg. I'd prefer 15. I'm just saying I can see why Wojo does play him more now -- especially with Carlino not being especially effective. Hopefully, as the younger guys prove themselves more, particularly on D, they will steal some of Derrick's PT.
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So we are going to be pinning this season on Derrick too just like last season? That should be fun...
Not all of it Sultan, there are other holes--but 30 plus minutes will be a disaster as it was last year----which you with all your "professed" intelligence cannot get your brain around.
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Duane started Monday, and IMO earned the right to start next game. I think he will get more minutes at the 2 for now, eventually getting more at the 1. But again, look at context. Look at the number of other players and their relative strengths and weaknesses. If everybody else took care of the ball and played really great defense, if there was size and depth and production at the other positions perhaps Wojo would be able to play Duane 25 mpg at the point. Right now, that simply isn't the case. I think he has the most PG skills on the team. That doesn't mean that on this team, this year, right now, he should be starting at the point.
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Fair question, and please know that (as my posting history will show), I am not the biggest Derrick fan. I don't think he is a high-major PG.
Derrick does get burned sometimes (everybody does), but I believe he gets burned quite a bit less often than JJJ does and, especially, Duane does. Our rebounding blows and Derrick is a pretty good rebounder for a little guy. He also isn't a risk-taker on offense while the younger players around him (plus Juan) tend to take a lot of risks. All of the stuff I mentioned in this paragraph no doubt gives a coach some comfort.
I still wouldn't play Derrick more than 20 mpg. I'd prefer 15. I'm just saying I can see why Wojo does play him more now -- especially with Carlino not being especially effective. Hopefully, as the younger guys prove themselves more, particularly on D, they will steal some of Derrick's PT.
Fair points as well, especially agree with the bolded portion.
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I actually expect excruciating consistency from Derrick.
The vast majority of his games have been just like last night's. The games like he had against Omaha this season and Arizona State last season were outliers -- significantly outside the norm.
That's actually not really the case. He's not a scorer, that doesn't mean he isn't a contributor. Arizona State was his best game last year, but he played well offensively against Grambling (who didn't?), Cal State Fullerton, George Washington, Ball State, @ Butler, Xavier (all 3), Providence, @ St. John's, Seton Hall, and Creighton he was definitely a positive on offense. That is 12 of the 32 games we played in last year, which is a pretty significant number of times to be one of the better offensive players on the team. His averages from those 12 games:
8.6 ppg
3.4 rpg
5.8 apg
1.2 tpg
50.6% FG (40/79)
55.0% FT (22/40)
While those aren't all-Big East numbers, those are very solid numbers for a starting point guard, better than any year Junior Cadougan had here by far. The problem is in the other 20 games, these were his averages:
2.9 ppg
4.1 rpg
3.3 apg
1.7 tpg
27.3% FG (21/77)
34.8% FT (16/46)
That's a pretty big disparity between good Derrick and bad Derrick. His defense, rebounding, and turnovers were consistent, but while he gave us some very good offensive games, he also gave us some real stinkers. And yes...I realize this is cherry picking, but when you are talking about how a player is erratically inconsistent, cherry picking is really the only way to demonstrate that. Further, it didn't matter if it was against good teams or bad teams, he was just either on or off.
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Duane started Monday, and IMO earned the right to start next game. I think he will get more minutes at the 2 for now, eventually getting more at the 1. But again, look at context. Look at the number of other players and their relative strengths and weaknesses. If everybody else took care of the ball and played really great defense, if there was size and depth and production at the other positions perhaps Wojo would be able to play Duane 25 mpg at the point. Right now, that simply isn't the case. I think he has the most PG skills on the team. That doesn't mean that on this team, this year, right now, he should be starting at the point.
I get where you're coming from. I just don't think you make decisions on the mpg and position distribution based on what might make you slightly more competitive this year when we have such a low ceiling to begin with. If the long-term plan is to play Duane at the 1, and he's the best PG on the team this year, play him at the 1 and get him primed for next year. I also happen to think it would make the team more effective this year too, but what do I know? I'm a bear, I suck the heads off fish.
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He's in on a few. MarQus Lovett matches what you are describing.
I'd be surprised to see us get LoVett considering how late we got in on him. Seems like since the season started, the staff has been spending more time looking at JUCO players. I think they want someone who can contribute immediately. I wouldn't be surprised to see 1-2 immediately eligible players added to the roster next year.
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I completely understand your argument. But if Dawson isn't going to play, that leaves 25 mpg for the other 8. If you drop Derrick, who can only play the point, down to 10-12, along with the fact that Deonte isn't really productive, Carlino and JJJ are inconsistent, and Sandy is a freshman, the challenge for Wojo is to try to put a team out there. You can't bench everybody. And you can't play Derrick anywhere other than the point. So give me a minutes distribution with Duane getting 25 mpg at the point. It isn't pretty.
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That's actually not really the case. He's not a scorer, that doesn't mean he isn't a contributor. Arizona State was his best game last year, but he played well offensively against Grambling (who didn't?), Cal State Fullerton, George Washington, Ball State, @ Butler, Xavier (all 3), Providence, @ St. John's, Seton Hall, and Creighton he was definitely a positive on offense. That is 12 of the 32 games we played in last year, which is a pretty significant number of times to be one of the better offensive players on the team. His averages from those 12 games:
8.6 ppg
3.4 rpg
5.8 apg
1.2 tpg
50.6% FG (40/79)
55.0% FT (22/40)
While those aren't all-Big East numbers, those are very solid numbers for a starting point guard, better than any year Junior Cadougan had here by far. The problem is in the other 20 games, these were his averages:
2.9 ppg
4.1 rpg
3.3 apg
1.7 tpg
27.3% FG (21/77)
34.8% FT (16/46)
That's a pretty big disparity between good Derrick and bad Derrick. His defense, rebounding, and turnovers were consistent, but while he gave us some very good offensive games, he also gave us some real stinkers. And yes...I realize this is cherry picking, but when you are talking about how a player is erratically inconsistent, cherry picking is really the only way to demonstrate that. Further, it didn't matter if it was against good teams or bad teams, he was just either on or off.
Good numbers, brew. I was thinking consistent as in "consistent threat to score." So he's very consistent there, because he consistently isn't a threat!
Those 20 games are butt-ugly, I think even Derrick's strongest supporters would admit. Anyway, the purpose here wasn't to bash Derrick. As I said in another comment, I actually can see why Wojo leans heavily on him.
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The way Wojo is playing, we almost always have two point guards on the floor. Yes, Derrick usually brings it up and initiates the offense, but with Carlino and Duane, we almost always have two points out there. Duane is going to get his chances to see the game, handle the ball, and dish it off whether we classify him as a 1 or a 2. Think back to Acker and Cooby. Who was the 1? Who was the 2? Hell, the 2 was more DJO than anyone else, even though in a conventional 1-5 system you'd call him the 3.
It's a really small sample size, but I'm getting excited about Duane. He has the opportunity to be remembered as one of the greatest 4-year players in Marquette history. His redshirt year has him ready to contribute at this level and the lack of depth means he's going to get chances and be allowed to make mistakes. Could he average 12 ppg this year? If so, it's not at all inconceivable that in a few years we'll be watching eagerly to see if he can break Jerel's career scoring mark.
I know it's way too early to think about that, but that's the kind of stuff that pops in when my mind wanders...
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I'd be surprised to see us get LoVett considering how late we got in on him. Seems like since the season started, the staff has been spending more time looking at JUCO players. I think they want someone who can contribute immediately. I wouldn't be surprised to see 1-2 immediately eligible players added to the roster next year.
That's been my thinking as well. Look to add a juco with some bulk for next year.
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Not calling anyone out specifically, but I think people are giving up on Carlino way too early. His defense needs a lot of work, but he has been one of our better offensive players in the first four games.
Carlino's line so far: 8.5 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.3 bpg, 1.3 tpg, .368 3P
He also leads the team in 3PM. I think Carlino will be the PG going forward, with Duane/JJJ holding down the SG depending on who has the hot hand. If Carlino can fix his defense, he will be a solid contributor all season.
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Not calling anyone out specifically, but I think people are giving up on Carlino way too early. His defense needs a lot of work, but he has been one of our better offensive players in the first four games.
Carlino's line so far: 8.5 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.3 spg, 0.3 bpg, 1.3 tpg, .368 3P
He also leads the team in 3PM. I think Carlino will be the PG going forward, with Duane/JJJ holding down the SG depending on who has the hot hand. If Carlino can fix his defense, he will be a solid contributor all season.
But that is not happening. Derrick is generating 30 plus minutes. And he contributed nothing in the last game, except 0-5 FG; 0-2 FT's at crunch; etc.
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But that is not happening. Derrick is generating 30 plus minutes. And he contributed nothing in the last game, except 0-5 FG; 0-2 FT's at crunch; etc.
He's averaging 25 minutes a game right now. He played 35 in the Omaha game where he dropped in 17 points, 3 rebounds, and 5 assists on 8-13 shooting with only one turnover. Probably makes sense that he's in there. He played 32 against NJIT. Offense was bad as you pointed out but his defense was dare I say gamechanging? (That was just for you Willie). Held their top player to 13 points on 4-20 shooting (3-12 from 3 and 1-8 from 2) and at least one of those threes was when Duane was guarding him. Considering his replacement was having an awful offensive and defensive game, he seemed like the better option to me.
That being said, I think Carlino will get his mojo back and end up being our starting PG going forward. Derrick will retain his role as the backup.
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But that is not happening. Derrick is generating 30 plus minutes. And he contributed nothing in the last game, except 0-5 FG; 0-2 FT's at crunch; etc.
In the last 8 minutes of the game, NJIT's leading scorer, Damon Lynn, went 1/7 from the field. The only shot he hit was over Duane. In the other 6 instances, Derrick was on him. Not all of those defenses were Derrick, but he did a great job stopping their best offensive player. There was only one shot taken by Lynn where Derrick wasn't right on him, and that was because Derrick was on the floor fighting for a loose ball that squirted out of the pile right into Lynn's hands (took a 3, came up short with Juan's hand in his face).
As I said earlier, we essentially have three guys playing two point guard positions. Derrick is rarely out there without Carlino or Duane alongside him in a dual-point role. They provide the offense, he guards the opponent's best offensive guard. Neither Carlino nor Duane are going to play 40 mpg. Someone has to be in that other PG role when Carlino and Duane aren't out there together. There is no one else.
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Marquette has 7 guys ranked top 100. With Fischer, there is 8. The cupboard is not bare. The talent is there.
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Marquette has 7 guys ranked top 100. With Fischer, there is 8. The cupboard is not bare. The talent is there.
Indeed. The talent just needs to develop and get some experience. Not the type of talent that just comes in and wins. The type of talent that can become winners with some work/effort.
We will get there.
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He's averaging 25 minutes a game right now. He played 35 in the Omaha game where he dropped in 17 points, 3 rebounds, and 5 assists on 8-13 shooting with only one turnover. Probably makes sense that he's in there. He played 32 against NJIT. Offense was bad as you pointed out but his defense was dare I say gamechanging? (That was just for you Willie). Held their top player to 13 points on 4-20 shooting (3-12 from 3 and 1-8 from 2) and at least one of those threes was when Duane was guarding him. Considering his replacement was having an awful offensive and defensive game, he seemed like the better option to me.
That being said, I think Carlino will get his mojo back and end up being our starting PG going forward. Derrick will retain his role as the backup.
He ain't considered a backup getting 32 minutes like against NJIT. And don't use 25 minutes when he only played 10 minutes in one game because of an injury. Let me know when he has been relegated to Backup. Next game starting lineup will have Derrick, Carlino and Duane as the starters, That ain't backup.
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He ain't considered a backup getting 32 minutes like against NJIT. And don't use 25 minutes when he only played 10 minutes in one game because of an injury. Let me know when he has been relegated to Backup. Next game starting lineup will have Derrick, Carlino and Duane as the starters, That ain't backup.
I think his role @OSU will be the one we see more of as the season progresses. 13 minutes of backup duty for Carlino. Carlino struggled the last two games and it called for more Derrick. I think Carlino will right the ship and Derrick's minutes will regress. Just my prediction. I could definitely be wrong, Wojo will play whoever he thinks gives us the best chance of winning.
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In the last 8 minutes of the game, NJIT's leading scorer, Damon Lynn, went 1/7 from the field. The only shot he hit was over Duane. In the other 6 instances, Derrick was on him. Not all of those defenses were Derrick, but he did a great job stopping their best offensive player. There was only one shot taken by Lynn where Derrick wasn't right on him, and that was because Derrick was on the floor fighting for a loose ball that squirted out of the pile right into Lynn's hands (took a 3, came up short with Juan's hand in his face).
As I said earlier, we essentially have three guys playing two point guard positions. Derrick is rarely out there without Carlino or Duane alongside him in a dual-point role. They provide the offense, he guards the opponent's best offensive guard. Neither Carlino nor Duane are going to play 40 mpg. Someone has to be in that other PG role when Carlino and Duane aren't out there together. There is no one else.
So in a tight game at the end, we should be relegated to hack a Derrick to put him at the FT line exchanging 3 points for 1 or 0. I guess that is why we both get the big bucks for our coaching acumen.
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I think his role @OSU will be the one we see more of as the season progresses. 13 minutes of backup duty for Carlino. Carlino struggled the last two games and it called for more Derrick. I think Carlino will right the ship and Derrick's minutes will regress. Just my prediction. I could definitely be wrong, Wojo will play whoever he thinks gives us the best chance of winning.
Yeah back to the old Buzz slurp argument, except in this case I believe it.
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So in a tight game at the end, we should be relegated to hack a Derrick to put him at the FT line exchanging 3 points for 1 or 0. I guess that is why we both get the big bucks for our coaching acumen.
I haven't watched rewatched the end, but didn't Wojo pull Derrick after he missed the two FTs? I don't think he had a chance to pull Derrick before we got into hack a Derrick time.
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I haven't watched rewatched the end, but didn't Wojo pull Derrick after he missed the two FTs? I don't think he had a chance to pull Derrick before we got into hack a Derrick time.
You are correct , and I think it will become abundantly clear to Wojo that we simply can't have Derrick in the game at crunch time. Gives the other team a very high probability strategy against us by fouling him. The 13 minute Ohio State game was optimal in my view. Unfortunately some of the other kids are going to have to step their defense up or we are going to see more of these big minute games from Derrick.
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I'm sure Wojo would love to bench Derrick if he has other options that are performing.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure that he does.
Derrick is like training wheels. Ultimately, they might limit us from reaching top speed, but they also keep us from toppling over.
If MU can learn to play without training wheels, then they have a higher top speed. But, there is also a risk that they free-fall and have a DePaul season.
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+1
I was wondering if maybe Buzz' aversion to set plays in the half court offense is bringing the team down now. Wojo runs a lot more set plays and they have seemed to work in most cases, but I don't think are guys are used to playing like that. It will take some time but they should get better as the year goes on.
I also think it makes a difference on defense. Buzz always played chase the ball defense. Now players are more expected to play positional defense. In the past they did not have to think, just look were the ball is. Therefore, they are not only learning new offensive scheme they are also learning a new defensive scheme.
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Everyone on the roster, outside of maybe Wilson and Dawson were HIGHLY recruited. I'm not accepting that. These guys are getting beat by 2 star kids. There is plenty of talent to whip teams like NJIT.
It depends on your definition of highly recruited. None of them were wanted by the Blue Bloods. JJJ was not even recruited by Memphis, his home team.
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I haven't watched rewatched the end, but didn't Wojo pull Derrick after he missed the two FTs? I don't think he had a chance to pull Derrick before we got into hack a Derrick time.
Yes. Wojo has to continue doing everything he can to not have Derrick in at crunch time. Sad to say, it's like a turnover. Juan is enough of an adventure at the line!
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Marquette has 7 guys ranked top 100. With Fischer, there is 8. The cupboard is not bare. The talent is there.
I just love the narrative of guys being top-100 players 2 and 3 and 4 years ago and that somehow means we should be winning. Never mind our lack of height or experience or front-court players. Never mind that we have a brand new coach who also must learn, too.
Wade wasn't top 100. Neither was Gardner. Was Jae? Was Jimmy? Was Mayo? Erik Williams was, I know that.
I refuse to focus on this, but if others get some comfort out of knowing that Juan was a top 100 in 2011, go for it.
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It's because people are always bragging how good a player will be because of their ranking.
How many years has Carlino played? He has pretty good experience I would think.
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I just love the narrative of guys being top-100 players 2 and 3 and 4 years ago and that somehow means we should be winning. Never mind our lack of height or experience or front-court players. Never mind that we have a brand new coach who also must learn, too.
Wade wasn't top 100. Neither was Gardner. Was Jae? Was Jimmy? Was Mayo? Erik Williams was, I know that.
I refuse to focus on this, but if others get some comfort out of knowing that Juan was a top 100 in 2011, go for it.
Stats mean nothing to the individual sure and it's great to look at those stories. But outside of MU Id be willing to bet that the majority of good players at top programs are former top 100 kids.
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Stats mean nothing to the individual sure and it's great to look at those stories. But outside of MU Id be willing to bet that the majority of good players at top programs are former top 100 kids.
OK, but what does that mean for us in the here and now?
It's very early, but it appears that with his playing time having increased, that with his game having matured and that with his confidence having grown, Juan, as a senior, might finally be ready to play like a guy who once upon a time was a top-100 recruit.
Some players -- be they top-100 or not -- are ready to be impactful immediately. Others take several years. Others never live up to their rankings.
Plus, there's a big difference between, say, the No. 95 recruit and the No. 5 recruit.
I just don't see how the repeated mantra of "we have several top-100 recruits but aren't good" is useful.